#emc | Logs for 2005-03-14

[00:01:08] <LawrenceG> Also calibrating a freq counter on the work bench.... nothing like waiting for a crystal oven to warm up and stabilize..
[00:01:43] <Jymmm> LawrenceG thats what WWV is for =)
[00:03:29] <jmkasunich> maybe he's calibrating the oven crystal against WWV
[00:04:02] <Jymmm> heh, maybe =)
[00:04:13] <LawrenceG> I built a gps locked 10mhz standard.... its like 1000 times more accurate than zero beating with WWV... very cool. I need to make a 10mhz distributions system for the bench so that I can use the 1 reference for all my test gear. Nothing like 10 10mhz oscilators all on a different freq.
[00:04:21] <Jymmm> you know how unstable those crystals are =)
[00:05:04] <Jymmm> LawrenceG what? since when is gps more accurate than wwv?
[00:05:23] <Jymmm> especially since wwv is used to adj ooffeset gps
[00:06:40] <LawrenceG> If I lived next door to WWV it would be better, but the propagation of the radio signal really messes up the accuracy of wwv because of the doppler shifts.
[00:06:56] <Jymmm> LawrenceG where oyu at?
[00:07:00] <Jymmm> you
[00:08:11] <LawrenceG> off the west coast of Canada... Nanoose Bay... 49.31N, 124.23W
[00:08:32] <Jymmm> http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/service/gpscal.htm
[00:08:44] <gezr> -what is WWV?
[00:08:59] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: what about WWVH Hawaii?
[00:09:06] <Jymmm> gezr: the atomic clock
[00:09:11] <Jymmm> gezr: the atomic clock callsign
[00:09:13] <gezr> ah
[00:09:26] <Jymmm> gezr: http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/stations/wwvh.htm
[00:09:54] <paul_c> LawrenceG: You are not marked on the map.
[00:10:03] <LawrenceG> Ok... not that far off the west coast...
[00:10:15] <Jymmm> LawrenceG and a simple yagi
[00:11:31] <LawrenceG> I was on the emc map at one point... The dot probably sits on top of Vancouver BC.... its about 100km away.
[00:12:01] <LawrenceG> (60 miles to swim)
[00:12:04] <Jymmm> http://map.rmservers.com/map?r=IMAG%7C%25PD%3D492,292%25LL%3D49%2E310001,%2D124%2E230003%25ZM%3DM499872%2E00%25LLICON%3DIcon4,49%2E310001,%2D124%2E230003,49%2E31++%2D124%2E23,Font11,R%7C%25MINP%3D3%25MS%3DB%7C%7C&d=75&t=mn&z=4&id=RMC&tid=1121624746.1110759339.64995&fix=1&h=44BE405A4667C0B259E781700E55CE82
[00:13:09] <LawrenceG> That would be me...
[00:13:40] <Jymmm> =)
[00:14:02] <LawrenceG> I wish I could make it to code fest.... that would be a real hoot....
[00:15:44] <LawrenceG> not sure if the politics of indenting style could be digested thou...
[00:16:21] <paul_c> Initial results are poor on indent runs...
[00:16:42] <paul_c> indent is barfing out over a couple of rs274ngc files.
[00:21:19] <paul_c> hrrmmm... Quite a cluster of dots along the northwest coast
[00:21:36] <LawrenceG> Its hard enough to get every programmer in one company using the same style (manager needs big hammer). Hard to do that on world wide projects.
[00:22:13] <robin_sz> nah
[00:22:15] <robin_sz> its easy
[00:22:26] <robin_sz> you implement an indent run on CVS checkin
[00:22:51] <robin_sz> each programmer checks-out and then indents the code to his or her desired style to work on
[00:23:24] <robin_sz> that way the CVS is in a standard format and programmers can have it in their desired format
[00:23:40] <LawrenceG> could work... It would be close enough to each persons style that they could scan it easily.
[00:24:36] <robin_sz> with the approriate indent options on checkout, it should be exactly the format the proggie requires
[00:25:11] <robin_sz> any programmer who has a style that is not creatable by appropriate indent settings needs "re-educating" ;)
[00:25:48] <LawrenceG> pick me.... i r just an engineer
[00:26:30] <robin_sz> indent -kr or indent -gnu are good places to sart
[00:28:07] <robin_sz> if you find your indent settings extend to several hundred weird options, thats a bad sign.
[00:29:18] <LawrenceG> yes... played with indent and it certainly does have "options"
[00:32:43] <LawrenceG> paul_c: On the next bdi disk... how about a script that does all the apt-gets for the devel stuff? This could be run manually for those wanting sources. Cut and paste off the wiki site works pretty well as the alternative.
[00:39:15] <robin_sz> LawrenceG: all it needs is a file with:
[00:39:28] <robin_sz> <packagename> install
[00:39:31] <robin_sz> then:
[00:39:51] <robin_sz> dpkg --set-selections < filename.txt
[00:40:01] <robin_sz> apt-get dist upgrade
[00:40:35] <robin_sz> si it just needs a file of all the various dev packages needed with "install" next to them
[00:40:37] <paul_c> LawrenceG: All the dev packages are on the CD
[00:42:25] <robin_sz> thats not quite the same thing
[00:42:55] <LawrenceG> install is going smoother this try.... I also doubled the swap partition to 512mb on this install...
[00:42:58] <robin_sz> they still need to know what they need to install, no?
[00:44:08] <paul_c> IF they don't know that gcc needs to be installed, then perhaps they should be doing something else.
[00:44:26] <robin_sz> oh, well, its just gcc, then fair enough
[00:44:49] <robin_sz> I thought it might have been a load of other -dev stuff
[00:44:52] <paul_c> AND if they can't be bothered to read the notes....
[00:46:07] <robin_sz> whatever
[00:47:43] <paul_c> then there is always synaptic if anyone is scared of the command line.
[00:48:45] <robin_sz> LawrenceG: if, after installing, you would care to do a dpkg --get-selections > base_version.txt and then after adding the dev stuff do it again to dev_version.txt and diff the files, it should reveal exactly the differences.
[00:49:19] <LawrenceG> synaptic does help in finding things.... needs a batch mode though.... somewahy to export a list of installed packages that can be used again to re-install all the same pakages on another box.
[00:49:48] <robin_sz> thats EXACTLY what --get/set-selections does
[00:51:05] <LawrenceG> ok... must have missed something
[00:51:18] <robin_sz> you can run either the ENTIRE file into it
[00:51:38] <robin_sz> or ... just the added bits for making it a dev system
[00:52:13] <robin_sz> this is the Debian way of doing things
[00:53:06] <robin_sz> or make a emc-dev pseudo package that installs the dev stuff in one hit
[00:54:12] <LawrenceG> Damn... bdi install just dumped again.... it makes it all the way to post install config and then black screens into an X error and tells me its safe to reboot my system
[00:54:47] <robin_sz> why not just install debian Sarge and add the emc stuff later?
[00:55:44] <LawrenceG> might try ubuntu... have that running on several other boxes and its debian based.
[00:56:23] <SWPadnos> LawrenceG: have you tried burning at a lower speed than your drive is rated for?
[00:56:39] <Jymmm> "Are you happy to see me or is that an atomic clock in your pocket!" http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/ofm/smallclock/index.htm
[00:57:57] <LawrenceG> yes, have burned 3 differnt versions of 4.20... they verify ok now that I'm not using my dvd burner to make them.
[00:58:31] <SWPadnos> Ah - OK> (I had a problem with one disc burned at full speed - fixed at lower speed)
[00:58:52] <Jymmm> SWPadnos ditto
[00:59:06] <robin_sz> * robin_sz had to repair an atomic clock once
[00:59:39] <robin_sz> well, a rubidium vapour frequancy standard anyway
[00:59:50] <Jymmm> robin_sz: Hey! Just found a photo of you doing that! http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/general/museum/nbs-1.jpg
[01:00:07] <Jymmm> "Love your hair!"
[01:00:22] <robin_sz> why thnakyou
[01:01:13] <Jymmm> =)
[01:03:49] <robin_sz> it was a fun thing to mend, and quite entertainng to re-align
[01:04:58] <Jymmm> I've only played with cesium vapor
[01:08:00] <robin_sz> we never had one of those on station,
[01:08:09] <robin_sz> just two rubi's
[01:09:40] <robin_sz> we'd lock agaisnt the reference in London in a morning, typically it would only drift by 1 cycle of 4.43mhz during the day
[01:11:46] <Jymmm> the cesium was used in a transmitter of sorts
[01:12:16] <Jymmm> robin_sz: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-alq-157.htm
[01:12:40] <Jymmm> and thats all I can say on that =)
[01:16:44] <chessie4> chessie4 is now known as chessie
[01:35:02] <LawrenceG> Anybody on that can email me a copy of /etc/sources.list from a bdi install (prefer 4.20)
[01:38:10] <gezr> you mean /etc/apt/sources.list i guess, and i dont have that version, nor the specific stuff to emc
[01:39:39] <LawrenceG> yes, sorry... trying to do a bdi install and it wont work here... I got the ubuntu distro to install, so if I have the sources.list, I should be able to apt-get all the needed emc stuff.
[01:40:10] <gezr> I have no idea, wish i did
[01:41:05] <LawrenceG> no worries.. paul_c is "The man" for the bdi stuff.... he was on earlier
[01:41:11] <SWPadnos> # The main repository for Debian packages.
[01:41:11] <gezr> yep
[01:41:13] <SWPadnos> deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian testing main
[01:41:14] <SWPadnos> # Synergy updates.
[01:41:16] <SWPadnos> deb http://webersys.com/debian/ ./
[01:41:17] <SWPadnos> # At some point, a repository will have to be created
[01:41:19] <SWPadnos> # for BDI related packages. Meanwhile, a dummy line..
[01:41:20] <SWPadnos> ## deb http://emc.repository/debian ./ ##
[01:41:24] <SWPadnos> That's all I have on a BDI 4.18
[01:42:02] <SWPadnos> Paul had mentioned an EMC repository, but I can't remember the exact URL
[01:42:27] <gezr> I dont know it
[01:42:47] <cnc_wright> Try the Wiki: http://www.redpoint.org.uk/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?DebianInstall
[01:42:56] <LawrenceG> ok... paul did say most of the packages were on the bdi cd.... I'll try a cdrom-add and play a little.... getting the real time kernel would be the big leap forward.
[01:43:12] <cnc_wright> This seems to have been updated within the last day.
[01:43:52] <SWPadnos> deb http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bdi-emc/debian ./
[01:44:08] <LawrenceG> bindo looks perfect...
[01:44:15] <LawrenceG> bingo...
[01:44:37] <cnc_wright> Anyone know how to get a CD-rom working?
[01:44:41] <SWPadnos> (funny - I just watched Finding Nemo last night - there was a little problem with names :) )
[01:44:47] <gezr> cnc_wright : hu?
[01:44:53] <gezr> as in apt-cdrom?
[01:44:56] <cnc_wright> I don't appear to have /dev/cdrom
[01:45:14] <gezr> hmm
[01:45:26] <cnc_wright> apt-cdrom returns:E: Unable to stat the mount point /cdrom/ - stat (2 No such file or directory)
[01:45:35] <SWPadnos> /dev/cdrom is often a link to one of /dev/hdb, /dev/hdc, /dev/hdd
[01:45:43] <gezr> check dmesg to see what it routed it to
[01:46:09] <gezr> it could be being treated as a scsi device, /dev/sda1 would be an example, but the symlink should be there
[01:46:37] <gezr> dmesg would show dmesg | more or | grep cdrom
[01:47:28] <cnc_wright> cat /var/log/dmesg | grep cdrom = 'nothing'
[01:47:50] <gezr> then the issue lies deeper, did you recently compile a kernel?
[01:47:51] <SWPadnos> how about mount /cdrom ?
[01:47:59] <gezr> you may have left out cdrom support
[01:48:13] <cnc_wright> During boot modprobe seems to cause a stack dump but the boot keeps going
[01:48:29] <cnc_wright> I am working off of a 4.18 BDI
[01:49:07] <cnc_wright> I have an onboard AIC 7890 (7980)?? scsi controller
[01:49:15] <cnc_wright> I had a scsi cd rom
[01:49:26] <cnc_wright> I took that out an put in an ide cd-rom
[01:49:41] <gezr> after the initial install was made?
[01:49:52] <gezr> it could be a modules issue
[01:50:00] <cnc_wright> I can't seem to get the scsi controller turned off all the way in the bios and my mobo doesn't have a disable jumper for it
[01:50:11] <gezr> I cant be for sure, I dont spend my time on a linux box like I used to
[01:50:24] <gezr> the scsi part should also be supported
[01:50:30] <gezr> why its not I dont know
[01:50:39] <cnc_wright> yes. It worked great during the install...
[01:50:59] <gezr> try this, modprobe scsi-ide
[01:51:08] <gezr> or modeprobe cdrom
[01:51:12] <gezr> modprobe that is
[01:51:39] <gezr> the proper moduels may not be loading or a similiar issue
[01:51:56] <siado> bios shouldn't matter should it? won't linux disregard it completely?
[01:52:26] <cnc_wright> they return: FATAL: Module scsi_ide not found.
[01:52:35] <cnc_wright> FATAL: Module cdrom not found.
[01:52:55] <siado> cdrom may not be a module, but part of kernel
[01:53:07] <siado> although i know squat about the BDI
[01:53:40] <cnc_wright> Maybe I can download the kernel source and try a new compile
[01:53:43] <gezr> cnc_wright : you may have to rebuild a kernel specific to your hardware,
[01:54:06] <gezr> I think you should have pre patched stuff with that install, I dont know
[01:54:17] <siado> i find that once you are comfortable doing just that, it is so nice to tune the system
[01:54:30] <siado> are you using BDI?
[01:54:37] <cnc_wright> yes
[01:54:57] <cnc_wright> I think the kernel source is still on the cd-rom and I cant get to it :(
[01:55:09] <siado> if you compile from kernel source, you will need to downlad the RTAI or RTLinux source and patch the kernel prior to copmiling
[01:55:26] <siado> er compiling
[01:55:38] <SWPadnos> what do you have in /etc/fstab? (for /cdrom )
[01:55:42] <siado> assuming you d/l the latest source
[01:55:47] <gezr> cnc_wright : check the dmesg again and pay close attention to what It had to say, it may be a simple fix
[01:55:58] <gezr> just check all of it over
[01:56:06] <gezr> see how the last boot progressed
[01:57:04] <cnc_wright> fstab had no cdrom entry
[01:57:55] <siado> useful, but not a requirement to access it
[01:58:11] <cnc_wright> BDI installed kernel-headers-2.6.9-adeos & kernel-source-2.6.9-adeos.tar.bz2
[01:58:15] <siado> you say you installed the ide cdrom after the fact?
[01:58:31] <cnc_wright> ide cdrom came after install yes.
[01:58:50] <siado> how is it connected to the mobo?
[01:58:54] <gezr> are all the cables on teh cdrom good to go/
[01:58:58] <cnc_wright> Is the kernel source I mention above prepatched for RTAI?
[01:59:12] <gezr> yeah I believe so
[01:59:12] <cnc_wright> 2nd IDE bus as master
[01:59:27] <gezr> did the bios at boot detect it?
[01:59:30] <siado> is there anything else on the 2nd?
[01:59:31] <SWPadnos> just untar the kernel-source... file (in /usr/src, where it was placed)
[01:59:57] <gezr> make sure the bios detected it at boot, you may need to just reboot and watch closely
[02:00:02] <SWPadnos> you can then link linux to kernel-source-2.6.9-adeos, to make things a little easier
[02:00:03] <cnc_wright> yes. I had left the BDI cd in it and it booted off it.
[02:00:19] <gezr> you could retry the install
[02:00:50] <gezr> give it a chance to find what it is you have now
[02:01:02] <siado> sometimes linux gets a little flakey if you have an ide device on a controller as the only device selected to single as opposed to 'single'
[02:01:03] <gezr> thats sorta a cheap but effective way to go around it
[02:01:17] <cnc_wright> At some point I have to learn myself how to fix this beast without full nuke. I have installed about 8 time so far...
[02:01:19] <siado> most bios can work around thus
[02:01:42] <siado> but once linux starts loading, it disregards the bios as i understand it
[02:01:46] <SWPadnos> cnc_wright: just untar the kernel-source-2.6.9-adeos file, then copy the file /boot/config-2.6.9-adeos to .config in the source directory (that was just created by tar)
[02:02:02] <cnc_wright> Should I try putting the cd on the primary bus as a slave
[02:02:12] <siado> that would be a very good place to start
[02:02:32] <SWPadnos> don't move anything - it booted and installed just fine, right (or was that the SCSI CD-ROM?)
[02:02:32] <siado> especially since you already know the controller is accessign that bus since you can boot it
[02:02:50] <cnc_wright> Cool. I have two things to try here. Swap the cd to the other bus and build a new kernel.
[02:03:04] <siado> cd swap takes less time ;)
[02:03:56] <cnc_wright> I wan't a new kernel anyway so I can specfically leave out the scsi modules. That might fix some of my probs.
[02:03:57] <siado> my ancient celeron would spend all night on a recompile
[02:04:06] <SWPadnos> what does 'dmesg | grep -i cd-rom' tell you?
[02:04:16] <cnc_wright> I installed of the scsi cd-rom
[02:04:32] <gezr> did the scsi drive just fail or something?
[02:04:49] <siado> you know, modules are great for flexibilty, but i love a monolithic kernel
[02:05:15] <cnc_wright> SWPadnos : Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.20
[02:05:33] <SWPadnos> OK - that's waht I get as well.
[02:05:40] <siado> what does 'lsmod' tell you is loaded?
[02:05:49] <cnc_wright> scsi drives didn't fail but I am getting a stack dump about the scsi driver during boot
[02:05:58] <siado> ick
[02:06:43] <cnc_wright> scsi_mod 105764 1 aic7xxx
[02:07:06] <siado> so thats the scsi controller module
[02:07:16] <siado> and it is being used by the hardware
[02:07:18] <cnc_wright> I guess
[02:07:30] <siado> is the scsi cd still attached?
[02:07:36] <SWPadnos> how about 'dmesg | grep ROM'
[02:08:11] <cnc_wright> no. but modprobe finds it during boot and I get a stack dump
[02:08:41] <cnc_wright> hdc: R/RW 8x4x32, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
[02:08:49] <cnc_wright> hdc: ATAPI 32X CD-ROM CD-R/RW drive, 2048kB Cache
[02:08:57] <siado> even if you could disable it in the bios, linux would still find it on boot
[02:08:59] <cnc_wright> thats a good sign isn't it?
[02:09:00] <SWPadnos> OK - now tell me what /etc/fstab says about /derom
[02:09:03] <siado> yes
[02:09:08] <SWPadnos> cdrom, I mean
[02:09:13] <SWPadnos> and yes, it is a good sign
[02:09:31] <siado> how have you tried mounting it?
[02:09:48] <siado> sorry to rehas old questions i'm sure you already answered
[02:09:54] <cnc_wright> /etc/fstab has nothing matching "cdrom"
[02:10:03] <SWPadnos> hmmm.
[02:10:20] <pfred1> cnc_wright here's a nickel kid go out and get yourself a real computer
[02:10:36] <cnc_wright> I
[02:10:42] <SWPadnos> there should be an entry (after a line saying "Automatically added by firstboot.sh") /dev/sdb /cdrom ...
[02:11:21] <cnc_wright> /dev/fd0 /floppy msdos,vfat noauto,users 0 0
[02:11:32] <cnc_wright> is the only entry after that
[02:11:57] <SWPadnos> it should be before that (I have two sections with that description) add this line:
[02:12:02] <SWPadnos> /dev/hdc /cdrom iso9660 ro,users,noauto,unhide 0 0
[02:13:49] <cnc_wright> line is now added.
[02:13:58] <cnc_wright> Do I have to reboot?
[02:14:03] <pfred1> heh
[02:14:04] <SWPadnos> now mount /cdrom (with a disc in the drive)
[02:14:32] <siado> when i mount my cd, i usually 'mount /dev/cdrom /cdrom'
[02:14:46] <siado> and tell it exactly what to mount
[02:14:48] <SWPadnos> that's what the /etc/fstab line is for
[02:14:53] <siado> true
[02:15:00] <pfred1> siado how naughty making directories in the top level!
[02:15:06] <pfred1> you racy thing you!
[02:15:15] <cnc_wright> mount: mount point /cdrom does not exist
[02:15:19] <siado> well, i don't actually, i was just following the example
[02:15:22] <pfred1> I bet you jaywalk sometimes too!
[02:15:24] <SWPadnos> mkdir /cdrom
[02:15:33] <siado> in my slack it's actually /mnt/cdrom
[02:15:41] <SWPadnos> the BDI default is /cdrom
[02:15:46] <siado> only on sundays! :P
[02:16:07] <SWPadnos> well - it IS Sunday here! :)
[02:16:20] <siado> ack!
[02:16:31] <SWPadnos> NAK!
[02:16:39] <cnc_wright> * cnc_wright I have a CD-ROM!!!!
[02:16:47] <SWPadnos> thank you, thank you :)
[02:16:48] <siado> excellent
[02:16:56] <pfred1> woo
[02:16:57] <cnc_wright> Way cool beans. Thanks ALL!
[02:17:05] <pfred1> really it's not hard
[02:17:07] <siado> so we were both right :P
[02:17:08] <pfred1> make some aliases
[02:17:14] <siado> just yours is longer lasting
[02:17:20] <pfred1> alias cdm='mount -t iso9660 /dev/cdrom /media/cdrom'
[02:17:29] <pfred1> alias umcd='umount /dev/cdrom;eject'
[02:18:04] <siado> so
[02:18:08] <siado> that fire's out
[02:18:26] <siado> how the heck do you get a usb wireless adapter working?
[02:18:38] <siado> :O
[02:18:38] <pfred1> siado put those lines into ~/.bashrc
[02:18:47] <siado> eh, i will eventually
[02:18:57] <siado> i'm still being lazy about it
[02:19:10] <siado> i don't know if i want to keep slack or not
[02:19:24] <pfred1> I ran slack for like 6 years
[02:19:29] <pfred1> just got too hard to keep up with
[02:19:32] <siado> i have forever
[02:19:39] <siado> until i got osx
[02:19:51] <pfred1> I hate apple
[02:19:54] <siado> that's kind of what I'm thinking now
[02:20:05] <siado> i love my mac for what i use it for
[02:20:17] <pfred1> I hate apple on principal
[02:20:24] <pfred1> because they're scumbags
[02:20:27] <siado> i open email attachements fearlessly
[02:20:42] <siado> even if i don't know the sender :O
[02:20:48] <pfred1> them and their closed hardware
[02:20:52] <siado> true
[02:21:08] <pfred1> how old were you when they opened, then closed their hardware?
[02:21:14] <siado> 21
[02:21:18] <pfred1> and screwed all them poor slobs who started clone companies
[02:21:48] <siado> that would have been a brilliant move say 15 years earlier
[02:21:48] <pfred1> man if they actually mattered they should have gotten sued over that whole deal
[02:22:13] <siado> ibm ensured dominance in that respect
[02:22:30] <siado> but i'm no fan of MS either
[02:22:32] <pfred1> no appled has sealed their own fate time and time again
[02:22:42] <pfred1> apple even
[02:22:50] <siado> they fir my niche though
[02:22:59] <siado> fir=fit
[02:23:35] <siado> anywho
[02:23:49] <pfred1> they're effete elitists
[02:24:13] <cnc_wright> They make good door stops
[02:24:23] <siado> i am thinking i'm going to just string a damn 10baset into the garage
[02:24:36] <pfred1> yeah i got a pic someplace with one used that way the caption is "Think Different"
[02:24:41] <siado> er cat5 rather
[02:24:50] <cnc_wright> That's my plan too
[02:24:57] <siado> this stupid linksys is a pain in the arse
[02:25:20] <cnc_wright> I have WRT54G but I haven't got a card for the computer yet.
[02:25:22] <pfred1> like this?
[02:25:25] <cnc_wright> No sure if they work with linux
[02:25:42] <pfred1> the big bad $6 network?
[02:27:19] <pfred1> wireless is for people who don't have power tools like this!
[02:28:32] <cnc_wright> How much romex can you wrap around that thing when drilling through walls?
[02:28:35] <SWPadnos> Hopefully, that side of the house doesn't get too much sun
[02:29:12] <pfred1> SWPadnos not that it does but why not? wire was only $6 been there for few years now already
[02:29:47] <SWPadnos> well - it may last forever, but it's unlikely that a molded patch cable is rated for outdoor use
[02:29:55] <SWPadnos> (like UV and heat/cool cycles)
[02:30:15] <pfred1> SWPadnos so far it has not mattered
[02:30:24] <SWPadnos> YMMV, as they say :)
[02:30:39] <pfred1> it's the north side of the house
[02:30:57] <cnc_wright> When/if it fail all he has to do is use it to pull another $6 cord throught :)
[02:31:17] <SWPadnos> right - a lot easier than running conduit (though that's not too hard on the outside of the house)
[02:32:19] <pfred1> SWPadnos it is on my house i got about 2 feet to work with over there ladder gets a bit steep at that pitch
[02:32:58] <SWPadnos> how far is the drop (it looks like 15 or so feet)?
[02:33:23] <pfred1> SWPadnos it's about 22 feet
[02:34:01] <SWPadnos> hmmm - that's $3.75 inconduit, plus a couple of dollars for elbows and hangers - if there's a Home Depot nearby.
[02:34:13] <pfred1> SWPadnos here's a pic of another time I scaffolded it for another job
[02:34:17] <SWPadnos> when / if the cable fails, just put in a conduit when you replace it.
[02:34:30] <siado> anyone used the Vital card?
[02:34:34] <pfred1> SWPadnos nah I got a better idea I'm moving ?)
[02:34:45] <SWPadnos> even better - a caulk gun should do it :)
[02:35:34] <pfred1> I've had wires on the side of that house for like 25 years that have held up
[02:35:42] <pfred1> phone wires
[02:35:49] <pfred1> so the cat5 should be OK
[02:36:10] <SWPadnos> yep - I'd expect so - you don't have big snow problems, do you? :)
[02:36:41] <pfred1> sometimes
[02:36:49] <pfred1> have had 4 feet but that's rare
[02:37:01] <SWPadnos> 4 feet total or in one storm?
[02:37:21] <pfred1> yup
[02:37:27] <pfred1> 4 foot one go
[02:37:38] <SWPadnos> well - that's significant ;)
[02:37:39] <pfred1> it was something
[02:37:51] <pfred1> had fun with my 4WD truck in that!
[02:37:56] <pfred1> was up to the hood
[02:38:12] <SWPadnos> yeah - I've seen minivans totally buried
[02:38:28] <pfred1> when it crusted i couldn't even get through it then
[02:38:29] <SWPadnos> (I knew they were there, and there was a bit of the shape in the snow)
[02:38:37] <pfred1> but when it was powder i could drive through it
[02:46:44] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[02:56:44] <Jymmm> nah, more for those that dont have fishtape and 6' drillbits
[02:59:50] <Jymmm> CAT5 uv/water proof http://metrix.net/metrix/products/ethernet/MET-CAT5-OB-50.html
[03:00:27] <Jymmm> you could run EMT and pressurized it too.
[03:00:38] <Jymmm> 10 psi should to the trick
[03:00:46] <Jymmm> do
[03:00:57] <pfred1> $30! man for that i can get like 5 wires
[03:01:06] <pfred1> and that's only 50 foot
[03:01:24] <Jymmm> well, it is OUTDOOR cat5, what ya expect =)
[03:01:48] <pfred1> my wire has been outdoors lets see
[03:02:10] <Jymmm> I'm in California, what do I care about snow?! lol
[03:02:21] <pfred1> ping
[03:02:23] <pfred1> 64 bytes from icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.687 ms
[03:02:27] <pfred1> yup it's working :)
[03:03:09] <Jymmm> fine get CAT6 then, eeeesh =)
[03:03:26] <pfred1> I use NICs out of PCs I find at the town dumps
[03:03:28] <Jymmm> I have my 1000'/$25 cat5 boxes =)
[03:03:52] <Jymmm> Eh I have 3COM nics, lifetime warranty on them.
[03:03:59] <A-L-P-H-A> miss me?
[03:04:10] <pfred1> I find 3Coms to be finnicky sometimes
[03:04:11] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A maybe
[03:04:17] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[03:04:19] <Jymmm> 905's?
[03:04:23] <A-L-P-H-A> snowboarding was FUN!
[03:04:28] <pfred1> 8029s are great
[03:04:30] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, that's my area code. :)
[03:04:46] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: but you're a canuc!
[03:05:05] <Jymmm> oh yeah, I forget the... Eh!
[03:05:10] <A-L-P-H-A> Look on a map, Who's on top? b-i-t-c-h! :)
[03:05:18] <pfred1> I was enjoying the great outdoors myself this weekend
[03:05:33] <pfred1> one leaf at a time
[03:05:44] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: look at a radar map... whos wearing shorts all year long yout FREEZING bitch!
[03:06:00] <pfred1>
[03:06:02] <A-L-P-H-A> you don't have snow bunnies!
[03:06:07] <pfred1> my great outdoors
[03:06:33] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: No, I have skantly clad females where dental floss would cover more!
[03:07:47] <Jymmm> curious, what axis is a rotary table considered? W ?
[03:08:38] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, we have topless allowed law. :)
[03:08:47] <A-L-P-H-A> W?
[03:08:56] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: In Santa Cruz, we do too.
[03:09:02] <A-L-P-H-A> A is to X, and B is to Y, and C is to Z.
[03:09:08] <pfred1> A-L-P-H-A yeah but who has ever seen Bigfoot dressed anyways?
[03:09:18] <A-L-P-H-A> W maybe the head rotary axis
[03:39:26] <dan_falck> * dan_falck is away: going out to the shop...
[10:45:20] <nevyn_> nevyn_ is now known as nevyn
[10:57:32] <anonimasu> hello everyone
[11:02:24] <paul_c> We been here hours waiting for you to turn up... ;)
[11:03:36] <anonimasu> :(
[11:03:51] <anonimasu> nice :)
[11:05:04] <anonimasu> what's up?
[11:06:09] <paul_c> trying to get some topics on the agenda for the codeFest.
[11:08:55] <anonimasu> ah ok
[11:10:57] <anonimasu> I am setting up a FTP so I can get some programs off my plc vendor
[11:10:59] <anonimasu> :)
[13:04:47] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[13:05:27] <SWPadnos> Hello all
[13:11:27] <paul_c> Morning
[13:12:02] <SWPadnos> So it is. Good afternoon to you.
[13:13:35] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[13:30:20] <robin_sz> * robin_sz decides to go out and play lasers, again.
[13:30:38] <SWPadnos> heh - I'm just reading your posts on CCED about selling some lasers
[13:31:00] <robin_sz> all gone apart from the Elctrox now .. I think
[13:31:12] <SWPadnos> too small :)
[13:31:23] <robin_sz> yeah, 100W is cardboard and wood really
[13:31:51] <robin_sz> we tested our �2 laser goggles yesterday
[13:32:03] <robin_sz> work well at 1.064nm
[13:32:15] <SWPadnos> I just followed the eBay link you had - it's a 3kW audio amp ?!?
[13:32:28] <robin_sz> there was a repost with a correction
[13:32:46] <SWPadnos> yep - just noticed it (but that one has the ever-present word-wrap problem :) )
[13:33:08] <robin_sz> just search ebay.co.uk for electrox
[13:33:10] <SWPadnos> Nice amp though
[13:33:22] <robin_sz> yeah
[13:33:26] <robin_sz> want one?
[13:33:41] <SWPadnos> not at the moment
[13:33:52] <robin_sz> oh well, you know where to ask
[13:33:59] <SWPadnos> yeah - thanks :)
[13:34:16] <robin_sz> this is how I have an audio-amp involvment
[13:34:24] <robin_sz> my mate andy builds them,
[13:34:32] <robin_sz> we cut the cases on my laser
[13:34:44] <SWPadnos> cool
[13:34:59] <SWPadnos> I could use some lighting stuff though
[13:35:13] <robin_sz> oh that, we just buy it in from China
[13:35:25] <robin_sz> theres piles and piles of it in the unit
[13:35:46] <SWPadnos> well - I'm helping out on some effects for a play, and we need several multicolor light sources
[13:35:50] <SWPadnos> plus sparkly things
[13:36:11] <robin_sz> its cheap these days
[13:36:32] <SWPadnos> sometimes. I saw a Color Kinetics board at ESC
[13:36:38] <robin_sz> we make like 20% in it .. but it just comes in in crates, goes out on ebay
[13:36:51] <robin_sz> nice board?
[13:36:51] <SWPadnos> it's around $500, and it's just 18 Luxeon LEDs, plus a little circuitry
[13:36:58] <robin_sz> yeah
[13:36:59] <SWPadnos> very nice - damned bright
[13:37:22] <SWPadnos> The LED cost is around $110
[13:37:23] <robin_sz> when you say "board" you mean lighting control desk?
[13:37:36] <SWPadnos> No - a circuit board with large LEDs on it
[13:37:42] <SWPadnos> But it is DMX controllable
[13:38:43] <SWPadnos> http://colorkinetics.com/products/oem/dle/c101/
[13:42:44] <robin_sz> looks liek something useful in a hug TV screen
[13:43:35] <SWPadnos> well - it's more for area "mood" lighting
[13:43:52] <robin_sz> I did a maintenance course on Rank-Strand Galaxy desks once ...
[13:43:57] <SWPadnos> it's bright enough that you can easily see the beam when you shine it on the ceiling of a very well-lit convention hall
[13:44:11] <robin_sz> we had a 768 channel Galaxy that needed lots of care and feeding.
[13:44:24] <robin_sz> yeah, I have some of those 1w modules
[13:45:06] <SWPadnos> right - put 18 of them on a baord, and you REALLY have a flashlight ;)
[13:51:53] <SWPadnos> Hiya, rayh
[13:52:08] <rayh> Hey. Good to be home?
[13:52:37] <SWPadnos> yes - after arriving at 2:00 AM, and then not getting my luggage for an extra 2 days, it's nice :)
[13:52:53] <rayh> Been there!
[13:53:06] <SWPadnos> Did you ever receive the CDs I (finally) sent?
[13:53:33] <rayh> Not yet. Perhaps in today's mail if the postman has his snowshoes.
[13:53:41] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:54:13] <rayh> So you saw lots of neat toys.
[13:54:22] <SWPadnos> yes - a bunch
[13:54:35] <SWPadnos> I particularly liked a couple of the tiny embedded PCs
[13:55:14] <rayh> Compatable with EMC?
[13:55:22] <SWPadnos> there wasn't too much (at a reasonable price) that could deal with real I/O though
[13:55:39] <SWPadnos> should be - everyone and their brother was touting Linux compatibility
[13:55:39] <rayh> That is an issue.
[13:56:01] <SWPadnos> Well - real as in optoisolated, protected I/O - not a lack of ports
[13:56:20] <rayh> InfoWorld had an interesting column on serial communication last week.
[13:56:22] <SWPadnos> there was actually one that had a Phoenix terminal header for some of the I/Os
[13:56:33] <SWPadnos> (on the outside of the case)
[13:56:52] <SWPadnos> I liked on particular one for my application, not necessarily for EMC:
[13:57:31] <SWPadnos> It's a 300MHz Geode processor, 256M DDR RAM, has a parallel, serial, dual USB, dual 10/100 ethernet, and is in a small fanless case
[13:57:43] <SWPadnos> takes around 25 watts (5V, 5A power supply internal)
[13:57:47] <rayh> What kind of app?
[13:57:54] <SWPadnos> Digital camera array
[13:57:59] <rayh> That sounds awesome.
[13:58:04] <SWPadnos> yes! :)
[13:58:17] <SWPadnos> the computer is around $350, complete
[13:58:38] <SWPadnos> Oh - it also has a VGA connector, and a CF slot
[13:59:08] <rayh> Size is the primary advantage over EPIA?
[13:59:20] <SWPadnos> for me, size and weight.
[13:59:31] <SWPadnos> But - the cost is also very convincing
[13:59:39] <rayh> Right. Portability
[13:59:49] <SWPadnos> the $320-$350 includes a power supply and case
[14:00:21] <SWPadnos> Most of the small systems are PC/104 boards or just not quite usable without some custom fitting
[14:00:41] <rayh> Yep and 104 is expensive.
[14:00:48] <SWPadnos> this one is in an aluminum extrusion - just tap a couple of holes (or fit T-slot nuts into the slots in the case), and you're done
[14:01:39] <rayh> Sounds great if you don't need a custom PCI or ISA board.
[14:01:48] <SWPadnos> well - there is that :)
[14:02:10] <SWPadnos> http://www.evalue-tech.com/products/EES-3412.cfm
[14:02:31] <SWPadnos> be careful of the "view larger" link - the image is around 3k x 2k pixels
[14:02:45] <rayh> Thanks
[14:03:03] <SWPadnos> oh - it's dual serial
[14:03:07] <SWPadnos> even better
[14:04:15] <rayh> Take a few minutes for me to config xchat for firefox.
[14:04:33] <SWPadnos> how about the ChatZilla extension?
[14:04:47] <rayh> ??
[14:05:13] <SWPadnos> there's a firefox/mozilla extension called ChatZilla - I'm using it right now
[14:05:19] <SWPadnos> It's their IRC client
[14:05:35] <rayh> Oh that. I suppose I could.
[14:05:55] <SWPadnos> either way - there's a lot of good stuff here: http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/
[14:08:14] <rayh> Got the config. I guess there's a lot of stuff at mozdev
[14:09:39] <SWPadnos> yes there is :)
[14:12:05] <SWPadnos> A really cool company I found is a PCB manufacturer in Ireland
[14:13:33] <SWPadnos> Order 10 boards, and it's $0.83 / sq.in. At 50 boards, it's $0.35/sq.in. Flat rate shipping of $25.00
[14:14:17] <rayh> soldermask and silkscreen included.
[14:14:33] <SWPadnos> Yup
[14:14:45] <rayh> Not bad at all.
[14:15:09] <SWPadnos> Even if not, they charge $12.50 for the screen, and they do all the boards for that single fee
[14:15:36] <rayh> Nice. I used pcbexpress for the last batch.
[14:15:37] <SWPadnos> So if the standard is one side silk, and you really want the second side, the lot costs an extra $12.50
[14:16:11] <rayh> Got a link?
[14:16:24] <SWPadnos> I've never used them (unless that's the low-cost side of 4PCB / Advanced Circuits)
[14:17:58] <SWPadnos> http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/info.html
[14:18:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[14:20:09] <jepler> SWPadnos: tjhey
[14:20:17] <jepler> they're in ireland but charge in USD?
[14:20:28] <SWPadnos> They ship anywhere
[14:20:36] <SWPadnos> (anywhere-ish, at least)
[14:23:17] <anonimasu> hm time to weld some alu :)
[14:24:58] <jepler> the only boardhouse I've used was custompcb.com, they're in asia somewhere. now I get to use cradek's machine, which is cheap with fast turnaround.
[14:26:05] <SWPadnos> I've used Advanced circuits, and have never been disappointed. Lots more expensive than a local CNC though :)
[14:26:13] <SWPadnos> (but has soldermask and silkscreen)
[14:27:20] <jepler> yeah, I wouldn't mind having soldermask and thru-plated holes as an option (well, I stay away from 2-sided boards to avoid the error-prone process of flipping and aligning the board anyway)
[14:30:57] <SWPadnos> There are a couple of options from Advanced circuits: "$33 each" special - order 3 boards, $33 each (up to 60 sq. in, 2-side, plated through, soldermask, single silkscreen)
[14:31:46] <SWPadnos> They also have "Bare Bones" - $0.55/sq. in. + $35/lot, plated through, no mask or legend
[15:09:43] <anonimasu> hm..
[15:09:48] <SWPadnos> Ah
[15:09:58] <anonimasu> if alex shows up tell him I am looking for him
[15:10:00] <anonimasu> :)
[15:10:14] <SWPadnos> Ok (if I remember :) )
[15:24:29] <A-L-P-H-A> morning all. :)
[15:24:32] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos. what's up?
[15:24:34] <A-L-P-H-A> how goes?
[15:25:37] <SWPadnos> Hi there - not much, it goes fine
[15:27:09] <A-L-P-H-A> need to do something today... dunno what yet... probably should make a small collet, 3mm, able to go high speeds. make maybe a couple of them.
[15:53:08] <A-L-P-H-A> hey anonimasu.
[15:55:55] <anonimasu> hi
[16:07:12] <anonimasu> * anonimasu YAWNS
[16:26:19] <SWPadnos> Hmmm - Mozilla's geting weird - see ya in a bit
[18:29:02] <anonimasu> hello
[18:29:39] <Jymmm> hola
[18:29:47] <anonimasu> what's up`?
[18:30:05] <Jymmm> nada
[18:30:09] <anonimasu> ok :)
[18:30:33] <anonimasu> I am cad drawing a part now
[18:53:19] <klinkz> hi all
[18:53:37] <paul_c> Another Canadian...
[18:53:56] <paul_c> oopss... dropped an "i"
[18:55:47] <klinkz> can someone tell me if i can run BDI-4.18 on fedora core 3 ?
[18:56:16] <paul_c> You mean mix'n'match packages from Red Hat & Debian ?
[18:57:16] <klinkz> lol no.... i just don t feel like formating my hdandoingtheprocess al again
[18:58:20] <paul_c> OK, so you have the HD set up with a linux partition, and you want to install on that...?
[18:58:53] <klinkz> well all my hd is in linux fedora core 3
[19:00:21] <klinkz> is Debian any good ? seem old to me Fedora seem more up to date
[19:00:41] <anonimasu> what do you mean with up to date?
[19:00:44] <paul_c> How bleeding edge do you want to go ?
[19:00:53] <paul_c> KDE-3.3
[19:01:24] <anonimasu> do you mean a new kernel(unstable) or do you mean the latest software/packages?
[19:01:57] <klinkz> software/package
[19:02:03] <robin_sz> fedora is essentially unuseable
[19:02:10] <paul_c> (use "experimental" for the seriously bleedng edge packages..)
[19:02:56] <klinkz> so you guys are saying that debian is better than FC3
[19:03:16] <paul_c> I don't judge...
[19:03:21] <robin_sz> with debian I am happy to upgrade a package, with some certainty it will work afterwards, with fedora, there is at least a 10% chance it will be broken
[19:03:47] <robin_sz> Ido, because I ahve used both, and I would not put fedora on a production machine.
[19:03:59] <paul_c> If FC3 suits the way you want to work, Debian might seam a little strange.
[19:04:01] <klinkz> i see..
[19:05:05] <robin_sz> and fedora's 6 month life-cycle is too short for me
[19:05:05] <klinkz> i just want to controle 3axes motors(stepper) so what u u guys suggest
[19:05:31] <paul_c> Under linux, you only have one real choice.
[19:05:50] <klinkz> witch is ....
[19:06:05] <paul_c> EMC
[19:06:07] <SWPadnos> EMC :)
[19:06:27] <klinkz> lol dahh...... (feel like a dumb)
[19:06:41] <jepler> there's always White Box Linux and at least one other group who repackages RHEL for free
[19:06:55] <jepler> that has a longer product cycle than FC
[19:06:57] <robin_sz> taulinux
[19:07:10] <SWPadnos> BDI installs easily and pretty quickly (roughly 30-45 minutes from start to finish)
[19:07:41] <SWPadnos> Upgrading to the latest packages (apt-get dist-upgrade) takes about an hour with a DSL connection
[19:07:53] <robin_sz> klinkz: for simplicity, grab one of the "BDI" install disks, it puts on a debian-like system and emc all in one hit
[19:09:07] <jepler> as a person who had used redhat/fedora for 6 years or so, I did have a little trouble getting used to the different locations for config files, but debian sarge, bdi-live and knoppix (all debian-based) are fine distributions
[19:09:25] <jepler> holy cow, I've been using linux for over 12 years now
[19:10:04] <klinkz> i got BDI 4.18 will it install also debian ?
[19:10:14] <SWPadnos> yes
[19:10:30] <anonimasu> BDI is just debian with emc bundled :)
[19:10:33] <anonimasu> more or less
[19:10:40] <SWPadnos> (Morphix, I think :) )
[19:10:45] <jepler> bdi has a different installer and different packages installed by default
[19:10:50] <anonimasu> yep
[19:10:56] <jepler> bdi-live was based on morphix, but I don't think bdi 4.xx is.
[19:11:23] <paul_c> Both BDI-4.xx and BDI-Live are 99% Deban when installed.
[19:11:38] <SWPadnos> What's the other 10 Meg?
[19:11:41] <SWPadnos> ;)
[19:11:52] <klinkz> well ok you guys are the pro i ll go format my system in debian see you guys in an hour or so thanx
[19:11:53] <paul_c> EMC and "stuff"
[19:12:04] <anonimasu> klinkz: good luck
[19:12:14] <paul_c> klinkz: The BDI disk does it all for you.
[19:12:59] <klinkz> ok thanx guyz
[19:14:43] <robin_sz> assuming someone did just grab debain Sarge by a net-install or whatver and add the appropriate line to the sources.list, will a apt-get install emc do everything needed?
[19:15:36] <paul_c> Yes.
[19:15:41] <robin_sz> coo.
[19:15:45] <robin_sz> thats nice :)
[19:17:03] <robin_sz> mmm .. les newells "sheetcam" is hsaping up nicely
[19:20:12] <jepler> http://www.sheetcam.com/ ? Looks interesting.
[19:38:41] <cradek> too bad it's not free
[19:39:50] <cradek> oh it's windows? hmm.
[20:06:07] <robin_sz> well, I dont mind paying for things that work
[20:06:39] <robin_sz> as long as the price is right
[20:07:21] <robin_sz> of course, I would prefer an opensource one, but ... for now, thats works fine, and the price is very competetive
[20:08:52] <robin_sz> and being on windows is a plus-point for me, as most of my users will just be able to use their windows laptop or whatever and plug into a G200X with usb
[20:09:30] <robin_sz> from their, the emc interpreter takes over and crunches the gcode
[20:10:01] <robin_sz> that part is all open-source of course.
[20:18:08] <paul_c> Hi Ray....
[20:18:35] <rayh> Hi Paul
[20:18:47] <SWPadnos> Howdy
[20:18:52] <rayh> I downloaded glade and worked with it a while today.
[20:19:40] <rayh> I didn't see any font size or definitions
[20:21:19] <klinkz> hi all i back with debain wow
[20:21:29] <SWPadnos> happy? :)
[20:22:04] <klinkz> well lock like the cpu got some extra speed
[20:22:23] <klinkz> wow do u install xine with this distr
[20:23:21] <klinkz> who do you install Xine with debian
[20:23:31] <SWPadnos> how?
[20:23:37] <paul_c> apt-get
[20:24:00] <rayh> xine is a package.
[20:24:26] <klinkz> yeah
[20:24:51] <robin_sz> apt-get install xine
[20:25:13] <robin_sz> or to find stuff related do:
[20:25:21] <robin_sz> apt-cache search xine
[20:26:15] <klinkz> localhost:~# apt-get install xine
[20:26:15] <klinkz> Reading Package Lists... Done
[20:26:15] <klinkz> Building Dependency Tree... Done
[20:26:16] <klinkz> E: Couldn't find package xine
[20:26:16] <klinkz> localhost:~#
[20:26:36] <rayh> libxine1
[20:26:52] <paul_c> cat /etc/apt/souces.list
[20:28:12] <rayh> xine-ui is a front end to it.
[20:28:51] <klinkz> localhost:~# cat /etc/apt/source.list
[20:28:52] <klinkz> cat: /etc/apt/source.list: No such file or directory
[20:29:29] <SWPadnos> /etc/apt/sources.list
[20:29:43] <SWPadnos> (here, the tab key is your friend :) )
[20:30:00] <klinkz> ;)
[20:30:46] <klinkz> # The main repository for Debian packages.
[20:30:46] <klinkz> deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian testing main
[20:30:46] <klinkz> # Synergy updates.
[20:30:46] <klinkz> deb http://webersys.com/debian/ ./
[20:30:47] <klinkz> # At some point, a repository will have to be created
[20:30:47] <klinkz> # for BDI related packages. Meanwhile, a dummy line..
[20:30:48] <klinkz> ## deb http://emc.repository/debian ./ ##
[20:30:50] <klinkz> localhost:~#
[20:31:05] <paul_c> sudo apt-get update
[20:31:32] <paul_c> sudo apt-get install xine-ui
[20:32:08] <klinkz> yes
[20:32:19] <klinkz> wow thanx
[20:32:43] <klinkz> it work now i can watch moviez at work :)
[20:48:20] <paul_c> rayh: Don't know how you would manage fonts in Gtk
[20:48:43] <rayh> I like the developer in qt much better.
[20:49:05] <rayh> What is your "gui" impressions?
[20:50:05] <paul_c> I can see a Qt GUI being a damned powerfull front end...
[20:50:56] <rayh> So can I. The number of widgets and variety of connections is huge.
[20:51:36] <paul_c> cutting and pasting between apps, even embedding a wp in the GUI...
[20:52:01] <paul_c> being able to print out a backplot (if such a thing is built in)
[20:52:30] <rayh> Right.
[20:53:29] <paul_c> The downside is who is going to code it...
[20:55:28] <robin_sz> cant we get the original Qt gui from nist?
[20:56:06] <rayh> I can handle the widget setup but i'd need help with sigs and slots.
[20:56:51] <rayh> If I get a .ui file for the example you wrote, would you be able to tell me how and what to do to connect it in.
[20:57:01] <paul_c> the sigs & slots I can help with.
[20:57:20] <rayh> Let me work up a .ui here real quick and send.
[20:58:00] <rayh> I'll use qlabel rather than qlcd so that I can see various text combos and such.
[20:58:31] <paul_c> I hacked it up to use QLineEdit...
[20:58:53] <rayh> Really. Okay. can you send that to me.
[20:59:49] <rayh> I guess what I'm most curious about is getting a designer file together with a libqtemc of some sort.
[21:02:12] <paul_c> lemme add a few comments...
[21:02:15] <robin_sz> I'll be interested to see how that works out .. I sort of understand slots and signals, but I'll be intrested to see how the transaltion to/from NML messages works
[21:02:30] <gezr> howdy folks
[21:03:13] <gezr> so more qt talk eh?
[21:03:24] <robin_sz> apparently so.
[21:03:39] <gezr> I dont want to say nothing, dont want to get into trouble :)
[21:03:58] <robin_sz> rayh seems to be enjoying it anyway
[21:04:03] <gezr> I love qt
[21:04:35] <robin_sz> yeah, its quite neat.
[21:04:48] <robin_sz> I think its the best solution we have right now
[21:05:07] <gezr> ive talked about it lots in the past
[21:05:17] <gezr> but I cant code, so anything I say is pretty much usless
[21:05:22] <rayh> Well then all we have to do is figure out how to make it work easily for us.
[21:05:40] <robin_sz> and it might make multi-platofrm GUIs possible without extreme pain
[21:06:33] <gezr> if I got in on the ground floor of development with qt, I can bet you that I would quickly learn how to program in terms of with emc and qt its self
[21:07:15] <gezr> I looking at existing code i become quickly lost, but with something that I can watch grow each day, whooohoooo, but im dreaming I guess
[21:07:27] <robin_sz> perhaps we'll see a Sherline with a 'headless' EMC box, and a networked Qt based GUI on the users 'doze laptop
[21:08:02] <gezr> qt will help with a cross over to qnx as well
[21:08:08] <robin_sz> qnx?
[21:08:20] <gezr> robin_sz : you have never heard of qnx?
[21:08:22] <paul_c> rayh: On it's way.
[21:08:24] <robin_sz> nope
[21:08:27] <robin_sz> never
[21:08:30] <anonimasu> hm..
[21:08:30] <gezr> robin_sz : its a real time os
[21:08:39] <robin_sz> oh.
[21:08:41] <anonimasu> qnx is neat.
[21:08:47] <gezr> robin_sz : its really cool
[21:08:49] <robin_sz> well, err
[21:08:52] <robin_sz> right
[21:08:55] <anonimasu> they run it at some telephone booths..
[21:09:01] <anonimasu> the webbrowser ones
[21:09:10] <robin_sz> why?
[21:09:34] <gezr> rayh, paul : could I get involved with the qt stuff?
[21:09:40] <SWPadnos> There used to be a bootable floppy disk demo of QNX with their GUI (Photon), and TCP/IP - it was pretty neat
[21:09:44] <anonimasu> yep
[21:09:57] <anonimasu> hm, I need to machine a ballnut preload block..
[21:09:57] <robin_sz> but why do they need an rt os in a phonebooth?
[21:10:02] <gezr> SWPadnos : they also have a mini cdrom version
[21:10:09] <gezr> robin_sz : stability and ease of use
[21:10:12] <anonimasu> robin_sz: because it's light and stable..
[21:10:18] <SWPadnos> yeah - not enough PCs have floppy drives these days :(
[21:10:21] <gezr> robin_sz : its more comercial
[21:10:24] <robin_sz> so they dont actually use an rt bit of it then?
[21:10:38] <SWPadnos> VOIP could be considered RT
[21:10:52] <robin_sz> hmmm, not really
[21:11:01] <SWPadnos> (for some values of Time)
[21:11:03] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I dont know.. I dont think it's a rtos..
[21:11:13] <robin_sz> anonimasu: well it is ...
[21:11:14] <anonimasu> but I havent used/heard of it for a long time..
[21:11:27] <SWPadnos> it is an RTOS, but it doesn't have to be used in time-critical applications
[21:11:35] <robin_sz>
[21:11:35] <robin_sz> QNX Software Systems. Realtime operating system software,
[21:11:35] <robin_sz> development tools, and services for superior embedded design
[21:11:42] <robin_sz> right
[21:11:52] <robin_sz> so its just a handy lightweight OS
[21:12:05] <robin_sz> that as a by-product has an RT layer
[21:12:06] <gezr> yeah
[21:12:08] <SWPadnos> yes
[21:12:23] <gezr> there was an emc port going on once upon a time i think
[21:12:50] <gezr> qnx i think ports more readaly to funky cpu choices
[21:13:33] <robin_sz> it is POSIX compliant, so it should port OK
[21:13:51] <robin_sz> but we already have linux, so .. well,
[21:14:02] <gezr> i think its more of a comercial type thing, not so open not so good
[21:14:04] <SWPadnos> they only list ARM, MIPS, PPC, SH, and X86 as supported CPU types
[21:14:15] <anonimasu> hm, as far as interface that is good..
[21:14:16] <SWPadnos> Linux has more supported CPUS
[21:14:31] <gezr> SWPadnos : true but linux doesnt fit on a chip in the same ways
[21:14:35] <robin_sz> and uClinux adds even more
[21:14:52] <SWPadnos> no - you need 2-4M of ROM to get a good embedded Linux system
[21:14:55] <robin_sz> * robin_sz throws gezr a blackfin DSP board
[21:15:19] <gezr> im not touting qnx, was just mentioning it, Ide rather see it mentioned then windows :)
[21:15:33] <robin_sz> but I like windows!
[21:15:39] <gezr> I could have said bsd :)
[21:15:52] <SWPadnos> netbsd, specifically :)
[21:15:54] <gezr> you know I like windows too
[21:16:24] <robin_sz> for "users" im afraid its still the dominant choice
[21:16:32] <robin_sz> will be for some time yet too
[21:16:51] <gezr> yeah I cant argue against that, I dont think anyone can
[21:17:05] <anonimasu> netbsd rocks ;)
[21:17:16] <anonimasu> if I had a eeprom burner I'd run it on my toaster
[21:17:43] <robin_sz> cant your toaster load it via bootp?
[21:17:55] <anonimasu> nope, no ethernet
[21:17:57] <anonimasu> :)
[21:18:01] <robin_sz> wow.
[21:18:05] <robin_sz> oldstyle toaster
[21:18:10] <SWPadnos> Motorola S-Records, then?
[21:18:47] <robin_sz> its probably a token-ring toaster
[21:19:17] <robin_sz> back in the early days, there was concern that ethernet was non-deterministic
[21:19:25] <robin_sz> token ring soesnt suffer from that
[21:19:26] <rayh> qnx is a microkernel system rather than a monolithic kernel.
[21:19:45] <rayh> It is rock solid and use on many mission critical aps.
[21:19:47] <SWPadnos> rayh, paul_c: what's the discussion of Qt about? (configuration, GUI, etc?)
[21:20:14] <rayh> I could license it for EMC for about $90 each processor
[21:20:27] <anonimasu> :)
[21:20:42] <robin_sz> well thats that dead then
[21:20:47] <rayh> It did have tickle available so it could run just the way we do.
[21:26:53] <anonimasu> but well running linux and running the gui remotely isnt a large problem :)
[21:27:51] <rayh> running a remote gui is almost trivial as long as we save NML.
[21:28:22] <robin_sz> nml as a concept is fine
[21:28:42] <robin_sz> its the implentation that sucks in places
[21:29:00] <rayh> I don't disagree with that at all.
[21:29:05] <SWPadnos> You can just run the GUI on the EMC machine, and use the remote display capabilities of X
[21:29:26] <robin_sz> not the most efficient way
[21:29:26] <SWPadnos> (though the network overhead is likely higher)
[21:29:31] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:29:35] <rayh> Could but that means a more powerful pc for the base box.
[21:29:40] <SWPadnos> Nope - but it works fine on my 10/100 network
[21:30:04] <SWPadnos> I have a Celeron 500 as the controller
[21:30:13] <rayh> I've done it here between Athalons.
[21:30:23] <SWPadnos> My other PC is an Athlon :)
[21:30:34] <robin_sz> again, for the average say, myhtiical sherline user
[21:30:40] <anonimasu> well, running the gui on the same box as the motion part, is slow.
[21:30:41] <anonimasu> :)
[21:30:45] <SWPadnos> (actually, all my other PCs are Athlons, except the laptop)
[21:30:46] <robin_sz> he/she'll have a windows based laptop or desktop
[21:30:53] <rayh> But why not allow as how a 100 pll can serve as the black box.
[21:31:03] <robin_sz> X, cygwin, ssh .. .
[21:31:23] <SWPadnos> Right - I have Cygwin/X - I run EMC on the C500, and view it on the 1800XP/Win2k box
[21:31:36] <robin_sz> fairy nuff
[21:32:48] <robin_sz> of course that is dangerous
[21:33:15] <anonimasu> hm..
[21:33:16] <anonimasu> howcome?
[21:33:20] <robin_sz> if the Linux zealots catch you, it's probably a hanging offence ;))
[21:33:27] <anonimasu> lol..
[21:33:32] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is a cnc zealot
[21:33:46] <robin_sz> yeah, the one true way
[21:34:03] <rayh> paul ran a tkemc on win 2k to a black box running a machine at NAMES a couple years ago.
[21:34:05] <anonimasu> I dont care as long as my machine will run nicely with it..
[21:34:07] <anonimasu> :)
[21:34:14] <rayh> Using the nml server.
[21:34:17] <robin_sz> I wonder if I can get this Fox toolkit thing to compile on 'doze?
[21:34:32] <robin_sz> should I try Borland Builder or MS Visual Studio?
[21:34:39] <anonimasu> I could run the gui on a dos box.. it dosent matter that much..
[21:34:44] <SWPadnos> What version of Builder?
[21:34:49] <robin_sz> ^
[21:34:50] <robin_sz> 6
[21:35:11] <robin_sz> I think ...
[21:35:27] <SWPadnos> Hmmm - I've never had great luck importing VS projects with Builder. It's supposed to be better now. (I have 5, not 6)
[21:35:30] <robin_sz> I need to check what my helpful neighbour has for me :)
[21:36:12] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:36:28] <robin_sz> he regulalry hand me new, unopened full-release versions of things ... seems his company just buys him far too much of everything
[21:37:09] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:37:28] <SWPadnos> need my address?
[21:37:40] <robin_sz> heh,
[21:50:11] <A-L-P-H-A> another successful day of accomplishing very little
[21:50:29] <SWPadnos> "Consistently sets low goals, and fails to achieve them"
[21:50:49] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[21:51:01] <A-L-P-H-A> well... doesn't help when a pretty face askes me to go out.
[21:51:08] <SWPadnos> I can imagine
[21:51:30] <SWPadnos> but then, you accomplished *something*, right?
[21:51:46] <anonimasu> heh..
[21:51:50] <anonimasu> that's a accomplishment
[21:51:52] <SWPadnos> "Went out with pretty face" - check
[21:59:59] <robin_sz> everyone has a purpose in life
[22:00:05] <A-L-P-H-A> well... that took me about 15 minutes to actually do what I needed to do for a whole day.
[22:00:17] <SWPadnos> deep thoughts, with Robin Szemeti
[22:00:21] <robin_sz> hav you considered the purpose of yuor life might simply be to serve as a warning to others?
[22:00:37] <SWPadnos> I remember a bigger, older guy we used to call "Dad"
[22:00:45] <SWPadnos> I guess some things just never leave you
[22:00:57] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[22:02:54] <A-L-P-H-A> hate how apache doesn't release the a folder.
[22:03:00] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't rename it.
[22:03:15] <SWPadnos> what OS?
[22:03:27] <SWPadnos> (Windows...)
[22:03:47] <A-L-P-H-A> yes windows.
[22:03:51] <A-L-P-H-A> linux is also on here...
[22:03:56] <A-L-P-H-A> but my nice tools are on windows.
[22:04:23] <SWPadnos> It's probably not Apache - I get that type of problem just using explorer
[22:04:52] <SWPadnos> try logging out then back in - it probably won't work, but it might
[22:06:24] <A-L-P-H-A> no, it's apache.
[22:06:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm using sys internals tool... "handle" and tells me what's having what open.
[22:07:32] <SWPadnos> It's a problem endemic to Windows - Apache is triggering it (if you close Apache and any files are left in use, it's not Apache's fault :) )
[22:07:52] <A-L-P-H-A> no, if I close apache, or restart it, it's fine.
[22:08:02] <A-L-P-H-A> stop blaming windows... even though it's bad... it's Apache's fault.
[22:08:03] <SWPadnos> Ah - the it is apache's fault :)
[22:08:12] <robin_sz> I know how to fix it
[22:08:16] <SWPadnos> reboot
[22:08:41] <robin_sz> nope ... run apache on linux, put the folder on the linux box, share it with the doze machine with samba
[22:08:57] <robin_sz> apache on doze is hmm still a bit "experimental"
[22:10:58] <anonimasu> iab
[22:11:12] <anonimasu> hm maybe I should machine somthing..
[22:11:17] <anonimasu> or maybe not..
[22:17:39] <A-L-P-H-A> DONE work.
[22:17:46] <A-L-P-H-A> wow... that took me all of ... oh... 45 minutes.
[22:17:51] <A-L-P-H-A> damn. I'm quick when I need to be.
[22:21:13] <anonimasu> :)
[22:27:00] <A-L-P-H-A> well... this is fun!
[22:27:14] <A-L-P-H-A> archiving an a website from the FTP server... TONS of little files. :/
[22:27:16] <Jymmm> robin_sz: windows is still experimental
[22:27:45] <robin_sz> maybe :)
[22:27:59] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: using wget?
[22:28:01] <A-L-P-H-A> damn, wished I had shell access to that box... TAR is up... and download it.
[22:28:19] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, no... just using an nice FTP client, it had to spider all the folders, and then download it.
[22:28:34] <A-L-P-H-A> it's only 19megs... but still thousands of files.
[22:28:36] <robin_sz> err Ok.
[22:28:48] <A-L-P-H-A> FileZilla is a very very nice FREE ftp client.
[22:28:58] <A-L-P-H-A> pretty polished for OSS.
[22:29:12] <robin_sz> I prefer wget, thanks
[22:29:17] <A-L-P-H-A> a fellow Canuck!
[22:29:28] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, to each their own. :)
[22:29:49] <robin_sz> wget -r ftp://some.site.com/pub/
[22:29:52] <robin_sz> job done.
[22:30:11] <A-L-P-H-A> login, control-A, drop and drop.
[22:30:25] <A-L-P-H-A> how do I define a password and login with wget?
[22:32:14] <Jymmm> http://nilno.com/laser_dir/pics/processing_head.jpg
[22:32:21] <Jymmm> wget --help
[22:33:56] <robin_sz> from the man page:
[22:33:58] <robin_sz> The usage of FTP is as simple. Wget will take care of login and password.
[22:34:02] <robin_sz> I guess it asks you
[22:34:21] <robin_sz> ooh, funny laser torch
[22:34:33] <robin_sz> with a micrometer for setting the height?
[22:34:55] <Jymmm> cutting head for the laser
[22:35:25] <robin_sz> most strange
[22:36:11] <robin_sz> ahh, OK, the micrometer is for focus, not height
[22:36:14] <anonimasu> hm..
[22:36:19] <anonimasu> manual focus?
[22:36:27] <robin_sz> set it once and forget it/
[22:36:42] <robin_sz> I dont see any height sensign gear though
[22:36:44] <anonimasu> cant you just focus on somthing and then adjust it in software..
[22:36:49] <anonimasu> err calc it..
[22:36:59] <robin_sz> is this off a paper/wood laser?
[22:37:12] <robin_sz> calc it? how?
[22:37:42] <robin_sz> * robin_sz hands anonimasu a sheet of bent and wobbly steel
[22:38:02] <robin_sz> all steel cutting lasers use a capacitive height sensor ...
[22:38:07] <anonimasu> image recognition and a filter?
[22:38:10] <anonimasu> or a height sensor..
[22:38:12] <robin_sz> usually by precitiec
[22:38:16] <robin_sz> precitiec
[22:38:21] <robin_sz> damn I cant type
[22:38:25] <robin_sz> precitec
[22:38:28] <robin_sz> thats better
[22:38:47] <robin_sz> will hold to +-0.2mm during cutting
[22:38:57] <anonimasu> ok
[22:39:25] <anonimasu> how small is 0.0001" it's 0.025mm isnt it?
[22:39:29] <robin_sz> basically its a free-running oscillator, the cutting tip and the metal form a capacitive plate
[22:39:43] <robin_sz> you just try and keep a particular frequency
[22:39:46] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has trouble with " always
[22:40:11] <robin_sz> "one tenth of a thou"
[22:40:47] <anonimasu> err 0.0025
[22:40:53] <anonimasu> yeah.. that's more like it.
[22:41:10] <gezr> .0001" = .00254mm
[22:41:48] <gezr> a typical hair is .007" in dia
[22:42:09] <anonimasu> 0.03mm
[22:42:11] <gezr> the thickness of a piece of printer paper 20lb type is .004"
[22:42:21] <anonimasu> somwhere around that..
[22:42:28] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, what si that picture of?
[22:42:39] <gezr> a cigarette packs celophane wrapper is about .001 or so in thickness
[22:42:51] <A-L-P-H-A> nm
[22:42:52] <A-L-P-H-A> reading
[22:43:03] <anonimasu> I use thoose when zeroing my parts(paper)
[22:43:17] <anonimasu> it's close enough, for most stuff..
[22:44:44] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A cutting head for the laser
[22:44:53] <Jymmm> http://www.nilno.com/laser_intro/optics.html
[22:44:54] <robin_sz> interesrting
[22:45:02] <robin_sz> only 20w laser though
[22:45:13] <Jymmm> to adj the focusing beam I believe
[22:45:35] <robin_sz> 20w isnt a laser, its a bright LED ;)
[22:45:43] <Jymmm> 100w
[22:45:47] <Jymmm> CO2
[22:45:55] <robin_sz> the Luxar?
[22:46:14] <robin_sz> http://nilno.com/laser_dir/luxar.html
[22:46:17] <robin_sz> see, 20W
[22:46:36] <Jymmm> http://www.nilno.com/laser_intro/laser_head.html
[22:46:39] <Jymmm> see 100 watt
[22:46:46] <anonimasu> heh
[22:47:27] <LawrenceG> paul_c: no luck with 4.20 install... I did a basic ubuntu install and then installed the kernel and emc.... working as we speak... I have a step by step log if you would like to add it to the wiki
[22:47:56] <robin_sz> ah yes ...
[22:48:07] <robin_sz> hmm .. coherent nice.
[22:48:26] <robin_sz> thats a pulse laser too, which explains how he got it to cut 3mm steel
[22:48:53] <Jymmm> coherent dont even make liquid cooled anymore tha tI know of
[22:50:36] <robin_sz> sure?
[22:50:54] <robin_sz> and emc powered too.
[22:50:58] <Jymmm> not sure, but when I talked to them they were pushing air cooled
[22:51:37] <LawrenceG> df
[22:55:49] <robin_sz> their K series and GEM series are both water cooled
[22:57:19] <robin_sz> hopefully this guy will take my 450W ferranti on Wednesday
[22:58:41] <robin_sz> another fine project for someone :)
[22:59:07] <anonimasu> goodnight everyone
[22:59:10] <robin_sz> night
[22:59:17] <robin_sz> actually. me too.
[23:00:18] <Jymmm> gnight
[23:22:19] <klinkz> hi all, just installed BDi 4.18 is it normal that i don<t have any audio can some one help plz?
[23:28:04] <paul_c> Never used sound with BDI-4.xx
[23:33:24] <SWPadnos> I think the intro to optics page has a typo
[23:34:14] <SWPadnos> He says you need 1550 W / mm^2 to cut steel, then says that a 100W laser has that power density if the spot is 0.645 mm^2
[23:34:49] <SWPadnos> I think that should 0.0645 (100 / 1550 is roughly 1/15, which is 0.066 or so)
[23:37:38] <SWPadnos> He does get the spot size correct for 0.06... so all is not lost