#emc | Logs for 2005-03-11

[00:00:17] <gezr> in a location closer to you then joes steel cutting supply house, in key west floridia for example
[00:00:37] <pfred1> man i want to work at Joes!
[00:00:42] <pfred1> key west is a blast
[00:01:20] <Jymmm> I want Jose Quervo instead.... Tequilia Jalisco, Mexico!
[00:01:22] <gezr> I dont buy stuff a lot, I cant afford it, but when I do have to get something, I do try to find the best deal
[00:01:46] <pfred1> Jymmm then when you're in key west go to Jimmy Buffet's Margirittaville Bar
[00:02:45] <Jymmm> You know what it is.... There is SOMEBODY here locally that has a shitload on the shelves and a big variety of sizes!
[00:03:15] <pfred1> then use the commercial yellow pages
[00:03:19] <pfred1> or whatever the hell it's called
[00:03:23] <pfred1> the B2B
[00:03:26] <Jymmm> pfred1 tried that too
[00:03:27] <gezr> yellow bok
[00:03:32] <pfred1> nah the B2B
[00:03:45] <Jymmm> even thomas register as well
[00:04:53] <gezr> http://phonebook.superpages.com/yellowpages/C-Machine+Shops/S-CA/T-Los+Angeles/
[00:05:16] <pfred1> he wants material suppliers not one eyed thieves in oily clothes
[00:05:22] <gezr> call some machine shops and tell em who you are, and that your having supplier issues, and ask them if they could reference a local supplier
[00:05:30] <Jymmm> gezr: That's SoCal, I'm on NoCal
[00:05:41] <gezr> DOH!
[00:05:59] <gezr> same idea applies
[00:06:00] <pfred1> does anyone even still speak english in socal?
[00:06:08] <Jymmm> gezr: I can find a zillion in SoCal
[00:06:39] <Jymmm> Hell, I know where most of those are in that page w/o a map even.
[00:06:52] <gezr> visit a local machine shop, find out what they do
[00:07:23] <gezr> thats what I would do
[00:07:29] <gezr> thats how I found my powder coater
[00:08:45] <gezr> most folks love to show off what they do :)
[00:15:33] <K`zan> pfred1: Good reading, wonder if my balcony would collapse with all that stuff I'd need to cast :)?
[00:15:57] <K`zan> Was off looking (or is that lusting) at mini-mills
[00:17:24] <pfred1> K`zan yeah making the lathe does seem like an awful lot of work
[00:17:40] <pfred1> when you may be able to pick somehting up for around $200 or so
[00:26:31] <K`zan> pfred1: Yes, it does, but $450 + shipping might make it more of an idea (mill).
[00:27:04] <K`zan> pfred1: Looking around, so far the $450 figure is it :-/. I will keep looking...
[00:27:23] <pfred1> K`zan man yo ugotta find widows at yardsales
[00:27:29] <pfred1> or hit flea markets
[00:27:48] <K`zan> About that time of year for yardsales :).
[00:28:00] <pfred1> soon
[00:28:05] <pfred1> another month here
[00:28:18] <pfred1> I want to top my RAS deal I got last year this year
[00:28:30] <pfred1> K`zan you ever see the RAS I picked up for $20 ?
[00:29:16] <K`zan> RAS? No I didn't
[00:29:29] <pfred1> K`zan
[00:30:53] <K`zan> Wow, too cool! Lucky you!
[00:31:16] <pfred1> heh it was sunday afternoon 2 day sale and it was still sitting there guy didn't want to put it away again
[00:31:27] <pfred1> he was asking $25 so I was like you take $20?
[00:31:34] <pfred1> took him a whole second to decide :)
[00:43:53] <K`zan> pfred1: LOL, love those!
[00:44:56] <pfred1> K`zan the thing about junking is you have to keep an open mind
[00:45:50] <K`zan> My mind is very open, just not enough that my brains fall out :).
[00:57:56] <paul_c> got another three to four hours of uploading...
[00:58:47] <paul_c> damit - I need more upload speed...
[00:59:14] <pfred1> yeah I don't upload worth a damn like 30 kb/s
[01:01:36] <paul_c> 15.8KB/s - It's like being on dialup again..
[01:01:44] <pfred1> asdl?
[01:01:48] <pfred1> adsl even
[01:01:56] <siado> addl
[01:02:30] <pfred1> someday we'll all have mad fiber links to cyberspace
[01:02:38] <siado> my connection gets bored easily and drifts off...
[01:03:11] <pfred1> any William Gibson fans here?
[01:03:27] <siado> long ago
[01:03:30] <pfred1> seems like William Gibson and CNC are a pretty good fit
[01:03:35] <paul_c> as in guitars ?
[01:03:37] <pfred1> no he's an author
[01:03:43] <pfred1> he coined the term cyberspace
[01:04:12] <siado> wrote the short story the lame movie johnny mnemonic was based off of
[01:04:19] <pfred1> he pioneeded a genre called cyberpunk
[01:04:41] <pfred1> hey watch it again it's not that bad
[01:04:49] <cnc_wright> Was that neuromancer?
[01:04:53] <siado> i know...but after i went back and read the book...
[01:04:56] <pfred1> I got a rip of it someplace ...
[01:05:02] <siado> no, that was a separate book
[01:05:07] <siado> and his best work imho
[01:05:14] <pfred1> yes he wrote neuromancer
[01:05:32] <pfred1> virtual light
[01:06:22] <siado> that was decent
[01:06:22] <pfred1> the sprawl mythos
[01:06:22] <paul_c> I'm going to go to bed & read a book on places to visit down the east coast..
[01:06:22] <siado> haven't got that one yet
[01:06:22] <cnc_wright> Was one of them the one where they were always saying "punch deck"
[01:06:22] <pfred1> well the sprawl mythos is the world a lot of his stories take place in
[01:06:40] <paul_c> see you all tomorrow.
[01:08:16] <pfred1> cnc_wright yes that was a popular catchphrase in his works
[01:08:38] <pfred1> the amazing thing about Gibson is he's a technophobe he doesn't evne own a computer!
[01:08:47] <cnc_wright> I always liked it but nobody ever uses it
[01:09:00] <cnc_wright> I used a few times and got blank staris.
[01:09:08] <cnc_wright> I get that alot :)
[01:09:30] <pfred1> if you liked any of gibson read some stephenson like the diamond age or snowcrash
[01:09:38] <cnc_wright> Stares I mean. I supposed blank stairs would hurt when you got to the bottom
[01:09:41] <pfred1> snowcrash rules
[01:09:51] <pfred1> I got an ecopy of it if you're interested
[01:10:15] <pfred1> it's cool to read on a screen through a perl script
[01:10:34] <siado> snowcrash i consumed
[01:10:42] <pfred1> was it bitching?
[01:10:50] <siado> unbelievable
[01:10:56] <pfred1> yeah it's one of my faves
[01:11:00] <siado> we were underway (on a submarine)
[01:11:04] <siado> for like 3 months
[01:11:14] <siado> and every minute i was in that book
[01:11:17] <pfred1> manly men doing manly things!
[01:11:20] <siado> unless i was working
[01:11:29] <siado> i think i read it 3 times
[01:11:41] <pfred1> I got some more of his stuff in electronic form
[01:11:53] <pfred1> let me go rummaging around see what i have here
[01:12:33] <cnc_wright> Something to read while waiting on compiles / uploads /etc...good idea.
[01:12:35] <siado> i think i may have bitten off more than i am ready to chew...
[01:12:49] <siado> now that i have my rtai compiled and installed...
[01:12:55] <siado> what do i do with it?
[01:13:05] <pfred1> 910492 Dec 3 2003 Snow_Crash.txt
[01:13:17] <siado> it seems to work
[01:13:17] <pfred1> 608971 Dec 3 2003 Big U, The.txt
[01:13:23] <pfred1> that one's pretty cool
[01:13:31] <pfred1> 230208 Dec 3 2003 4_12 Mother Earth Mother Board.pdf
[01:13:49] <pfred1> 30631 Dec 3 2003 The Great Simoleon Caper.pdf
[01:15:47] <pfred1> siado ever read any Greg Bear stuff?
[01:17:08] <pfred1> siado next time you put out to sea grab this before you go http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/Series16.htm should keep you busy for a few
[01:20:56] <pfred1> rayh hey Ray what do you say?
[01:21:20] <rayh> Hi. How you doing?
[01:21:37] <pfred1> OK if my urethane insulates my winding wire
[01:22:06] <rayh> This the microwave transformer?
[01:22:10] <pfred1> yeah
[01:22:14] <pfred1> I want to neaten it up some
[01:22:36] <pfred1> I used the hot out of a piece of romes it works but it looks like hell so I am painting the ground wire going to try using that
[01:22:42] <rayh> I heard about using the primary from these some years ago but never tried it.
[01:22:43] <pfred1> romex even
[01:23:07] <pfred1> man so far I'm pretty pleased with it I'm hoping if it's neater maybe I'll get less of a drop on a heavy draw
[01:23:09] <rayh> How many windings
[01:23:16] <pfred1> I've already pulled 5.5 amps out of the thing
[01:23:30] <siado> back
[01:23:30] <siado> sorry
[01:23:39] <pfred1> siado oh i was saying if you're into that sort of reading you may like this http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/Series16.htm
[01:23:47] <pfred1> it's not cyber but it's quality stuff
[01:24:13] <pfred1> and there's more to the series than just those two
[01:24:29] <pfred1> I think there maybe 4 of them?
[01:24:40] <siado> interesting
[01:24:45] <pfred1> and as to windings hmm I htink i put on 14?
[01:24:59] <siado> i'm behind the curve on this one
[01:25:03] <siado> what are you making?
[01:25:12] <pfred1> oh power for my steppers
[01:25:16] <siado> ah
[01:25:21] <pfred1> it's a pain to get high current DC
[01:25:34] <pfred1> pain in the patootie!
[01:25:41] <siado> i haven't even thought about planning my PS yet
[01:25:57] <pfred1> I did ye olde microwave oven transformer rewind trick
[01:26:09] <pfred1> and so far it's been very promising
[01:26:32] <siado> so are you stepping the voltage down before converting to dc?
[01:27:00] <pfred1> sure
[01:27:10] <pfred1> using a linear supply
[01:27:13] <siado> hmm
[01:27:26] <siado> my servos need 70vdc unregulated
[01:27:28] <pfred1> because they're simple and so am I :)
[01:27:44] <pfred1> well then you may just like microwave transformers as they are
[01:28:08] <pfred1> but man be careful!
[01:28:18] <pfred1> anything over 35VDC is lethal
[01:28:26] <cnc_wright> A friend of my got to go check out the "TPC's" phone switch building in Beaverton. The entire thing runs on DC.
[01:28:31] <siado> i am an electrician
[01:28:40] <pfred1> well then
[01:28:43] <siado> you have no idea how bad 450v 3phase hurts
[01:28:56] <siado> or how your ekg will look 7 years later
[01:29:01] <pfred1> I've blown up a pair of pliwrs on it
[01:29:12] <pfred1> 440
[01:29:26] <siado> i lost all the fingernails and meat on the back of my hand
[01:29:38] <pfred1> the thing about DC is it grabs and there's no zero crossing
[01:29:46] <siado> yes
[01:29:51] <pfred1> so
[01:29:53] <siado> 310vdc hurts aldo
[01:29:55] <siado> also
[01:30:02] <pfred1> stuff that doesn't sound like much with it is still really bad
[01:30:15] <siado> we have a large battery onboard
[01:30:15] <cnc_wright> can't let go of dc??
[01:30:20] <siado> and we have to crawl around on top of it for maintenanec
[01:30:22] <pfred1> it's harder
[01:30:45] <siado> ac causes muscle spasms as the voltage crosses zero
[01:30:59] <pfred1> DC just kinda clamps ya
[01:31:04] <cnc_wright> That make since.
[01:31:05] <siado> dc applies a constant current therefore contraction
[01:31:11] <siado> and yes
[01:31:21] <siado> i have a friend who tore tendons
[01:31:34] <pfred1> siado I was to ochicken to go servo first time out next machine I'l ltry servo
[01:31:49] <siado> fortunately for him the current path was in the elbow, out the fingers
[01:32:03] <siado> you know, if i hadn't found these on ebay so cheap, no way
[01:32:25] <pfred1> the ehole encoder loop thing has me concerned stepeprs sound so simple at the outset
[01:32:40] <pfred1> til you actually start playing with them
[01:32:53] <siado> it did me too, but now that i understand it a little better, i think i'm up for it
[01:33:04] <siado> again though, i base this on absolutely nothing
[01:33:06] <pfred1> yeah everyone eventually ends up servo
[01:33:12] <pfred1> because steppers do suck
[01:33:32] <siado> the tolerances i need/want...no way
[01:33:42] <siado> and speed man, it's all about speed
[01:33:59] <cnc_wright> What kind of servos did you get?
[01:34:07] <siado> parker sm232
[01:34:12] <siado> 60 a piece
[01:34:18] <cnc_wright> way cool
[01:34:24] <siado> no argument here
[01:34:26] <pfred1> what you using them on?
[01:34:38] <siado> my rubbermaid bin
[01:34:41] <A-L-P-H-A> what's a device that can get hot enough to melt gold? For casting... it's an eletrical heating device...
[01:34:57] <cnc_wright> an arc furnace?
[01:35:04] <pfred1> a solder pot?
[01:35:15] <pfred1> a hotplate?
[01:35:16] <siado> anything...gold is easy
[01:35:21] <pfred1> gold has pretty damned low melting point doesn't it?
[01:35:31] <siado> used to do jewlery repair
[01:35:37] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm. checking
[01:35:39] <A-L-P-H-A> thanks
[01:35:45] <siado> we would weld ring shanks with oky-propane torches
[01:35:51] <siado> er oxy
[01:37:02] <cnc_wright> I have the bit-n-pieces of my cnc project posted on http://www.cncwright.com. I haven't made it too far yet.
[01:37:47] <siado> mine is all concept thus far
[01:38:55] <A-L-P-H-A> what's gold melt at again? ~600oC?
[01:38:59] <siado> but i started at http://www.5bears.com
[01:39:07] <siado> if you haven't checked that out...wow
[01:40:12] <cnc_wright> raidal engines...very cool!
[01:40:41] <cnc_wright> models & small engines are what have sucked me in...
[01:40:43] <siado> that guy is my idol
[01:40:48] <siado> same here...
[01:40:51] <siado> gas turbine
[01:41:01] <siado> i will build a turboprop
[01:41:09] <siado> i will
[01:41:55] <cnc_wright> I went to the GEARS show in Portland last year....major doorling. I think my eyes glazed over. My wife even like it.
[01:43:00] <cnc_wright> The sherline guys (or a distributer of theirs) were ther too.
[01:44:13] <pfred1> sherlines
[01:44:25] <pfred1> they're made out of aluminum aren't they?
[01:44:29] <cnc_wright> Speaking of the wife...I have to go off with her to Spanish class now. Hasta Manana
[01:44:43] <siado> so long
[02:04:24] <rayh> I'd like to page data into and out of a PCI card in a sort of manual mode.
[02:04:59] <rayh> I'm thinking of something like DIO_Exercise.tcl for pci.
[02:05:10] <rayh> Got clues that might help me?
[02:09:22] <siado> heres a stupid linux question
[02:09:43] <siado> sorry rayh...didn't mean to step on you
[02:10:40] <siado> if i want to alias say wlan0 to a module, that wla0 must exist in /dev, right?
[02:12:22] <rayh> No problem.
[02:12:33] <pfred1> ln -s
[02:12:46] <siado> ?
[02:12:57] <pfred1> no wait that'd be something in modules.conf ?
[02:13:00] <siado> yeah...
[02:13:05] <rayh> * rayh gotta run.
[02:13:06] <siado> forgot to add that
[02:13:20] <pfred1> google is your friend
[02:13:25] <siado> i am
[02:13:31] <pfred1> if yo uwant to do it odds are 1000 others wanted to already
[02:15:01] <joe2000chevy> hello
[02:15:06] <pfred1> joe2000chevy hey there!
[02:15:12] <joe2000chevy> how r ya
[02:15:51] <pfred1> good making a webpage for a metalcaster guy
[02:15:57] <joe2000chevy> koo
[02:28:23] <pfred1> too funny
[02:32:17] <joe2000chevy> ??
[02:32:27] <pfred1> oh the page we're working on here
[02:32:31] <joe2000chevy> hey what is min. install with BDI 4.14?
[02:32:45] <joe2000chevy> its an option to choose
[02:33:10] <joe2000chevy> when installing
[02:43:30] <siadohauc> siadohauc is now known as siado
[02:43:37] <joe2000chevy> ?
[02:43:42] <siado> damn wireless
[03:18:55] <siado> nite all
[11:47:56] <A-L-P-H-A> wow... 105megs in 7 minutes. :)
[11:48:06] <A-L-P-H-A> 250~ kbps
[12:03:08] <les> good morning
[12:28:13] <A-L-P-H-A> les, hi
[12:28:22] <A-L-P-H-A> happen to know how to setup multiple monitors on linux?
[12:28:32] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm getting sooooo annoyed looking at one monitor.
[12:28:43] <A-L-P-H-A> paulc has the same setup as I... but he's not around.
[12:31:18] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[12:31:21] <A-L-P-H-A> just the man I was looking for
[12:31:28] <A-L-P-H-A> [07:32:19] <A-L-P-H-A> happen to know how to setup multiple monitors on linux?
[12:31:28] <A-L-P-H-A> [07:32:29] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm getting sooooo annoyed looking at one monitor.
[12:31:28] <A-L-P-H-A> [07:32:40] <A-L-P-H-A> paulc has the same setup as I... but he's not around.
[12:31:28] <A-L-P-H-A> [07:33:51] * Joins: paul_c (~paul@cpc1-norw1-6-0-cust99.pete.cable.ntl.com)
[12:36:15] <paul_c> [12:28:22] You have joined channel #emc
[12:36:29] <paul_c> Your clock is out - Please adjust ;)
[12:42:32] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah I'm not GMT :)
[12:42:37] <A-L-P-H-A> but... how did you do it?
[12:42:43] <A-L-P-H-A> bbiab... make some food
[13:10:32] <a-l-p-h-a_2> paul_c, can you share your knowledge on how to enable multiple monitors on linux?
[13:11:23] <paul_c> 'tis easy - Honest.
[13:12:20] <paul_c> How many graphics cards are you thinking of using ?
[13:15:42] <a-l-p-h-a_2> 2
[13:16:05] <a-l-p-h-a_2> 2 cards, 4 monitors (2 on each card, AGP will be Monitor+tv, PCI)
[13:16:16] <a-l-p-h-a_2> PCI1, AGP, PCI2, AGP2 (tv)
[13:16:22] <a-l-p-h-a_2> that's the monitors from left to right
[13:16:29] <a-l-p-h-a_2> all the same resolution, except the tv.
[13:18:06] <a-l-p-h-a_2> cards are: PCI ATI9200, AGP ATI9200SE
[13:19:45] <paul_c> googling for background info on 9200 cards
[13:20:10] <a-l-p-h-a_2> paul_c, thank you.
[13:20:20] <a-l-p-h-a_2> and this xchat is pretty nice. :)
[13:27:26] <paul_c> Have got an XF86Config working yet ?
[13:31:41] <a-l-p-h-a_2> paul_c, I'll check
[13:32:20] <a-l-p-h-a_2> is that the proper spelling?
[13:33:42] <paul_c> if not, email me the XF86Config-4 you do have along with the output of lspci -vv
[13:34:23] <a-l-p-h-a_2> paul_c, that would be located?
[13:34:45] <paul_c> /etc/X11
[13:35:28] <paul_c> can you also "cat /proc/bus/pci/devices > devices.txt" and mail it over.
[13:37:07] <a-l-p-h-a_2> paul_c, what's your email?
[13:39:12] <paul_c> back in five.
[13:39:19] <a-l-p-h-a_2> 'ight.
[13:45:10] <nevyn> morning all
[13:48:31] <paul_c> a-l-p-h-a_2: Did you have the output from lspic -vv as well ?
[13:48:52] <paul_c> Afternoon nevyn
[13:49:15] <a-l-p-h-a_2> paul_c, , no. you didn't mention that.
[13:49:17] <a-l-p-h-a_2> I'll do that now.
[13:49:24] <paul_c> if not, email me the XF86Config-4 you do have along with the output of lspci -vv
[13:49:57] <a-l-p-h-a_2> already email XF96Config-4
[13:50:02] <a-l-p-h-a_2> I'm sending lspci now
[13:50:43] <a-l-p-h-a_2> paul_c, , sent
[13:58:40] <paul_c> damit... No DNS lookup...
[13:58:50] <a-l-p-h-a_2> who doesn't have DNS lookup?
[13:59:27] <a-l-p-h-a_2> paul_c, is this something I can do myself?
[14:01:59] <paul_c> can you do lspci -xvv as well...
[14:02:37] <a-l-p-h-a_2> paul_c, yes I can
[14:03:26] <a-l-p-h-a_2> sent
[14:09:42] <paul_c> I'm going to assume all monitors are identical
[14:12:55] <a-l-p-h-a_2> not exactly.
[14:14:36] <a-l-p-h-a_2> lets go from LEFT to right. A, B, A, C. A = 1280x1024@75hz. B=1280x1024@85hz. C=TV 800x600x60hz?
[14:22:15] <paul_c> Adjust the monitor settings to suit.
[14:24:23] <a-l-p-h-a_2> so edit to my linkings... copy and replace?
[14:24:37] <a-l-p-h-a_2> backup, overwrite, restart xfree?
[14:24:42] <paul_c> backup the original
[14:24:46] <paul_c> and replace
[14:26:33] <a-l-p-h-a_2> well... I'm in the middle of an system update. so once that's done... I'll do it! :)
[14:36:20] <jepler> Anybody know how well a "266 Mhz 586 class Geode single chip processor" would run emc?
[14:36:43] <paul_c> which Geode ?
[14:37:15] <jepler> "NSC SC1100"
[14:38:14] <jepler> to run a stepper-based machine
[14:39:52] <a-l-p-h-a_2> there has got to be a way to un-uglify ubuntu gnome. BROWN is the theme color. :(
[14:39:57] <a-l-p-h-a_2> or they call it "chocolate"
[14:41:11] <paul_c> One of the Geode processors is particularly bad at realtime especially when switching consoles
[14:41:30] <paul_c> I seem to recall it was the GX1
[14:41:31] <rayh> jepler: I had 2.20b on a overclocked 166 pll here and got about 3-5 k pps.
[14:41:49] <a-l-p-h-a_2> what's the command to view my own ip in linux?
[14:42:03] <paul_c> ifconfig eth0
[14:42:15] <a-l-p-h-a_2> thanks.
[14:42:20] <a-l-p-h-a_2> I kept typing ipconfig
[14:45:34] <jepler> paul_c: this is an SBC, no VGA or keyboard connectors, so switching VTs wouldn't be an issue
[14:46:06] <jepler> (soekris net4801)
[14:46:20] <paul_c> If you can get one on evaluation
[14:48:04] <jepler> first I'd have to figure out how to run the emc DISPLAY program on a different machine
[14:48:08] <jepler> I hear that's possible
[14:48:41] <paul_c> dead easy with a remote GUI
[14:48:56] <jepler> is there some documentation on it? I haven't gone looking yet.
[14:48:58] <paul_c> There are some notes in the Handbook about it.
[14:49:04] <jepler> I'll have to take a look
[14:54:24] <jepler> yay, yet another project that would be interesting but I'll never actually get around to.
[15:00:40] <paul_c> Got plenty of those here...
[15:04:17] <rayh> paul_c: Question, why is "vital" code not in it's own drivers/vital directory in bdi-4?
[15:05:30] <paul_c> 'cos I didn't think to put it there when committing the sources.
[15:06:07] <rayh> Ah.
[15:07:03] <rayh> I believe I've got it running that way here. Want me to put 'em in?
[15:09:19] <paul_c> Go ahead.
[15:11:27] <rayh> k
[16:27:11] <a-l-p-h-a_2> paul_c, still around? what you gave me didn't work. :(
[16:28:03] <paul_c> comment out the BusID and uncomment the ChipID
[16:30:16] <a-l-p-h-a_2> k, anyway to restart X without restarting the computer?
[16:31:07] <paul_c> what distro are you running ?
[16:31:33] <rayh> paul_c: I've checked out emc2 with the bdi-4_20 tag, modified the makes and moved the vital files, to check in do I need to use the tag?
[16:32:11] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, no go. :(
[16:32:16] <paul_c> rayh: Should have checked out the bdi-4 tag
[16:32:35] <paul_c> the bdi-4_20 tag is not a branch tag.
[16:32:47] <A-L-P-H-A> mind taking a peek via VNC and check it out?
[16:33:16] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: ssh would be easier
[16:33:26] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't know if I have SSH installed.
[16:33:46] <A-L-P-H-A> and besides, I'll just change the pass afterwards.
[16:33:52] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll see if ssh is installed
[16:34:35] <paul_c> ps a | grep sshd
[16:34:45] <rayh> Will do that checkout and fix it.
[16:35:30] <A-L-P-H-A> no, just the grep sshd
[16:35:36] <A-L-P-H-A> no sshd loaded.
[16:36:41] <paul_c> /etc/init.d/sshd start
[16:37:15] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c. sec.
[16:37:26] <narnia> rayh, hello, how goes it?
[16:37:40] <narnia> paul_c, hello, how goes it?
[16:39:00] <paul_c> so,so..
[16:42:22] <narnia> paul_c, would you happen to know if there is going to be an irc connection to the emc fest at nist in april?
[16:43:01] <paul_c> narnia: Probably have irc running somewhere
[16:45:25] <rayh> narnia: Yo asked if I was going through Chicago to NIST
[16:45:58] <rayh> Probably not. I plan to be there the week or 10 days before in april to work with Matt.
[16:45:59] <narnia> rayh, i was curious has to which route was shorter.
[16:46:19] <rayh> Bridge is a bit shorter.
[16:46:27] <rayh> More of it slower though.
[16:46:56] <narnia> rayh, heard back from fredp, nist step class library is not maintained.
[16:47:53] <rayh> There you go.
[16:49:12] <narnia> rayh, fredp also said i should just fork nist scl at scl3-2 release and but it all under the gnu gpl. given the amount of new source code, updated source code, and rewritten source code there should be no arguments over the gnu gpl.
[16:49:44] <rayh> Exactly.
[16:53:29] <narnia> rayh, i just remember something. they have begun a road construction project on i-80 from joliet to the indiana state line. cutting south through wisconsin would take you right into it. the bridge route is probably a much safer bet.
[16:53:41] <rayh> Will you put this with your sf project?
[16:55:32] <narnia> rayh, not sure. gnu-cad-cam will eventually go away once brl-cad is updated. the reworked nist step class library should probably become its own project. perhaps back at nist. not sure.
[16:56:31] <rayh> I'm still listed on the gnu-cad-cam project. Suppose I should excuse myself.
[16:56:58] <narnia> rayh, perhaps a sub-project under brl-cad.
[17:03:19] <rayh> Could be.
[18:16:11] <Jymmm> les : When you did those deflection calcs yesterday, I was just wondering how does the material itself come into play? Say Aluminum, SS, DrillRod, etc
[18:17:31] <CIA-4> 03rayhenry 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/drivers/vital/ (extvitalmot.c Makefile vital.c vital.h): moved vital driver files to separate directory.
[18:25:16] <rayh> I'll get the other makefiles in a bit.
[18:29:47] <CIA-4> 03rayhenry 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/drivers/Makefile: added vital directory.
[18:30:37] <CIA-4> 03rayhenry 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/Makefile: added vital directory.
[18:31:38] <CIA-4> 03rayhenry 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/Makefile: added vital directory.
[18:36:50] <CIA-4> 03rayhenry 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/configure.in: moved module_install message.
[18:40:14] <CIA-4> 03rayhenry 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/Makefile: moved module_install message.
[18:47:37] <CIA-4> 03rayhenry 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/drivers/ (extvitalmot.c vital.c vital.h): remove vital driver files from old location.
[18:53:22] <rayh> oops. Need to fix the config message someplace else.
[19:04:35] <CIA-4> 03rayhenry 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/configure: changed end of configuration message.
[19:13:07] <Jymmm> rayh: I hopw you made it "Have a Nice Day!" =)
[19:24:21] <rayh> Jymmm: Thanks
[19:24:38] <Jymmm> heh, np
[19:26:04] <paul_c> rayh: Changes look good - No errors on the compile.
[19:26:27] <rayh> Great. Thanks for that confirmation.
[19:26:44] <rayh> Man I like this setup. The configure and the make are just great.
[19:27:25] <paul_c> and to extend it compile modules optionally would be fairly easy.
[19:27:33] <rayh> My only concern is for the ability to easily back up with the emc modules if a change breaks them.
[19:28:09] <rayh> Yes they would. I thought of a tickle parser for Makefile in the toplevel that sets m or n
[19:28:57] <paul_c> There is nothing in the RT modules that would prevent them from compiling on any 2.6 install.
[19:29:43] <rayh> Suppose that you could pass args to make when called to pick your favorite driver.
[19:30:32] <rayh> Huh. I could compile emc modules like vitalmod.ko on an ordinary 2.6 install
[19:30:58] <paul_c> any 2.6 kernel patched with rtai
[19:32:10] <rayh> Okay.
[19:33:58] <rayh> Wouldn't it be rather easy to run a bash script from the end of configure that asks
[19:34:25] <rayh> the module questions?
[19:36:19] <paul_c> configure needs to run without requiring any usr prompts
[19:36:34] <paul_c> it would break the deb packaging if it did.
[19:37:00] <rayh> Darn.
[19:37:48] <rayh> That is not something that would bother the end user, is it?
[19:38:52] <rayh> Say I've got a vital board and want to recompile for it.
[19:39:05] <paul_c> It would bother me if configure broke the deb build.
[19:40:35] <paul_c> On the other hand, it wouldn't be too hard to add a --with-all-modules option
[19:41:36] <paul_c> along with a --with--module-[vital|ppmc|etc|etc]
[19:42:06] <paul_c> but it would get to be tiresome to add new drivers to the list..
[19:44:30] <rayh> Yes it would.
[19:45:15] <rayh> Probably a lot easier to add some sort of Makefile editor that works after config has completed.
[19:46:54] <rayh> Can we include more than one Makefile.inc
[19:48:43] <paul_c> We could include multiple files - Currently include Makefile.inc and Makefile.rules
[19:49:46] <rayh> Could that file be used to alter the value of CONFIG_FREQMOD = m in the Makefile.
[19:52:10] <paul_c> With some fiddling, probably.
[19:53:30] <paul_c> But if all the modules compile cleanly, is there any real need to selectively compile them ?
[19:55:20] <CIA-4> 03rayhenry 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/drivers/vital/Makefile: added kclean
[19:55:31] <rayh> That is a rather large if.
[19:57:14] <paul_c> If someone is developing a custom driver, they do not commit a Makefile with foo-m set.
[19:58:01] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm BACK!
[19:58:03] <A-L-P-H-A> well... kinda
[19:58:21] <rayh> Okay that works for now.
[19:59:53] <a-l-p-h-a_2> paul_c, you kicking?
[20:00:49] <paul_c> No.
[20:00:54] <a-l-p-h-a_2> woohoo!
[20:01:06] <a-l-p-h-a_2> 'ight... where were we? I was creating you an account.
[20:02:19] <paul_c> Can you reset the passwd
[20:03:26] <a-l-p-h-a_2> we good?
[20:07:08] <robin_sz> meep
[20:07:40] <robin_sz> the wonderful thing about tiggers ...
[20:15:51] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, did you just kill me?
[20:16:06] <paul_c> looks like it...
[20:16:28] <paul_c> Let me try and restart.
[20:16:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I didn't have SSHD on autostart. :(
[20:16:44] <A-L-P-H-A> or did you do that?
[20:16:54] <paul_c> It was only X that was killed.
[20:17:01] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[20:18:04] <paul_c> Found Radeon on the PCI slot - Is the screen up ?
[20:18:20] <A-L-P-H-A> checking now again... [via VNC] as I said I'm not home.
[20:18:54] <paul_c> Ah... That is going to be a problem...
[20:19:08] <A-L-P-H-A> no, vnc, has not started up.
[20:19:11] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll check when I go home.
[20:19:21] <A-L-P-H-A> dang... this is gonna suck for doing work a little bit.
[20:19:36] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, I'll let you know when I get back home.
[20:20:19] <A-L-P-H-A> thanks for trying though
[20:23:07] <paul_c> Still in there - Editing the x config
[20:26:18] <A-L-P-H-A> it's cool... I'm still logged in via putty. but it's like I can't check, as VNC doesn't start until gnome is loaded. which it's still sitting at a login screen probably
[20:31:55] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos!
[20:31:56] <A-L-P-H-A> sup?
[20:32:01] <SWPadnos> Not much
[20:32:11] <SWPadnos> Just waiting for an airplane in San Francisco
[20:32:21] <A-L-P-H-A> where too?
[20:32:23] <A-L-P-H-A> to?
[20:32:24] <SWPadnos> Home :)
[20:32:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: leaving so soon?
[20:32:30] <A-L-P-H-A> home is always good
[20:32:39] <SWPadnos> I've been here a week!
[20:32:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Not my fault you didn't grab me!
[20:33:01] <SWPadnos> nope - I had no time :(
[20:33:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos yeah yeah, that's what they all say =)
[20:33:20] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:33:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos who needs sleep. not like your the vendor this time
[20:33:40] <SWPadnos> I saw a really cool small computer though
[20:33:48] <SWPadnos> (several, actually)
[20:33:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos will it fit into a deck of cards?
[20:34:03] <SWPadnos> almost
[20:34:32] <SWPadnos> I can't find the company or the product - "Tokyo Electronics" eCute 400 or eCute BS
[20:34:40] <Jymmm> must be same size as laptop hdd or forget it
[20:34:55] <SWPadnos> sorry - it's closer to a 3.5"
[20:35:03] <SWPadnos> (but not much bigger)
[20:35:22] <SWPadnos> 1GHz Geode or Eden processor
[20:36:38] <SWPadnos> The one I really liked was a small one in a metal extruded case - 300MHz Geode core, serial, parallel, USB, etc. Single 12V supply, $350
[20:36:59] <SWPadnos> fanless, alomst sealed too
[20:38:05] <A-L-P-H-A> nice
[20:38:08] <Jymmm> kinda cool, see if you can find the url later on plz
[20:38:09] <A-L-P-H-A> wifi? ethernet?
[20:38:18] <A-L-P-H-A> vapourware?
[20:38:27] <SWPadnos> Jymmm: I'll post a link tomorrow
[20:38:32] <A-L-P-H-A> how big of an HD?
[20:38:36] <A-L-P-H-A> I want more info! :)
[20:38:36] <SWPadnos> A-L-P-H-A: I held one - it's not vaproware
[20:38:41] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: probably mistware
[20:38:47] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, doesn't mean it's actually going to be produced.
[20:38:56] <SWPadnos> sold by several vendors-ware :)
[20:39:05] <A-L-P-H-A> they can have prototypes, that work.
[20:39:10] <A-L-P-H-A> ok.
[20:39:11] <SWPadnos> Been there, done that :)
[20:39:18] <robin_sz> mistware is like vapourware thats condensed a little
[20:39:39] <SWPadnos> there were a bundle of small machines - this was the best for my application.
[20:39:53] <SWPadnos> There were others that would be better for EMC or machine control in general
[20:39:56] <robin_sz> its enough to make your skin wet, but disppear in a slight breeze
[20:40:16] <SWPadnos> (one even had terminal block headers on the case for the parport)
[20:41:05] <robin_sz> in general the really weeny stuff usually has weird devices embedded
[20:41:09] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, SWPadnos, I ended up buying that 5phase special driver.... the one that costs, toooo much direct... so I bought it off ebay. $150USD shipped.
[20:41:12] <robin_sz> linux support is a nightmare
[20:41:37] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: neat, let us know how ultra-smooth it is
[20:41:51] <SWPadnos> robin_sz: That's the interesting part: EVERY vendor was claiming Linux support - except Microsoft, of course
[20:41:52] <A-L-P-H-A> probably more than my butt when I was a baby.
[20:42:01] <A-L-P-H-A> it better be! for the amount I've dumped into it.
[20:42:08] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: excelent ;)
[20:42:13] <SWPadnos> yeah
[20:42:19] <SWPadnos> I was happy about t
[20:42:25] <robin_sz> good.
[20:42:37] <SWPadnos> almost all the tools vendors are also selling Linux hosted devel environments as well
[20:42:44] <robin_sz> coo.
[20:42:53] <SWPadnos> Most everything is now "Eclipse Compatible"
[20:42:54] <A-L-P-H-A> actually thinking about it.
[20:43:02] <robin_sz> actually, I dont care anymore what the develoment enviroment is
[20:43:08] <SWPadnos> Nope
[20:43:23] <SWPadnos> I attended several conference sessions about using Linux as well.
[20:43:43] <SWPadnos> One was "Bringing up a Linux Board Support Package"
[20:43:46] <A-L-P-H-A> lets see... through a uController (powerful one even), linux, a ipod sized HD... or even the new dominoe sized HDs, a USB, DC power cord... you'd have a tiny machine.
[20:43:53] <SWPadnos> (on a new board)
[20:43:56] <robin_sz> Linux has enough dev support to make it nice to use now, you get a real IDE not just a command line (eclipse for example)
[20:44:07] <alex_joni> greetings
[20:44:11] <A-L-P-H-A> hi aj
[20:44:12] <alex_joni> hey SWP
[20:44:16] <SWPadnos> It's funny - I had never heard of eclipse until this show
[20:44:16] <alex_joni> hey alpha
[20:44:17] <robin_sz> and XP is good enough to make windows not painful to use ..
[20:44:23] <alex_joni> hello robin
[20:44:28] <SWPadnos> (I guess I should try not living under a rock for a while :) )
[20:44:31] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: I use it a lot for Java development
[20:44:43] <SWPadnos> cool - I'll be installing over the weekend
[20:44:43] <robin_sz> hi alex_joni
[20:44:51] <SWPadnos> hi, alex_joni
[20:45:08] <robin_sz> its a Java based tool, install the latest java you can find first
[20:45:13] <rayh> Hi Alex, SWP.
[20:45:15] <alex_joni> how've you been SWP?
[20:45:18] <alex_joni> hello rayh
[20:45:19] <SWPadnos> Hi Ray
[20:45:23] <SWPadnos> Just fine, alex_joni
[20:45:30] <SWPadnos> So - I finally shipped out that 4.18 CD
[20:45:38] <SWPadnos> (only to note that 4.20 is now available :) )
[20:45:40] <alex_joni> * alex_joni added a few things to the kbuild stuff
[20:45:44] <SWPadnos> cool
[20:45:58] <rayh> I'm always a bit behind the wave.
[20:46:02] <SWPadnos> well - they just officially canceled my originally scheduled flight
[20:46:11] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: but I presume a apt-get dist upgrade will fix that ??
[20:46:29] <rayh> When I added qt-developer it broke the kbuild.
[20:46:43] <SWPadnos> on a connecteion > 1kbaud, that works great :)
[20:46:57] <rayh> Had to add a lib link.
[20:47:11] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: I presume it comes pre-configure with the right lines in apt/sources.list to get the current release packages?
[20:47:33] <SWPadnos> I think there are a couple of things that aren't quite set up right on the 4.x BDIs - not sure, just a hunch
[20:47:47] <SWPadnos> robin_sz: yes, the source for the EMC .debs is in the list
[20:47:53] <robin_sz> good :)
[20:47:54] <SWPadnos> but they don't get updated too often
[20:47:59] <SWPadnos> (the .debs)
[20:48:00] <robin_sz> thats a big step forward
[20:48:22] <SWPadnos> I meant the apt source, not the source code or .spec files or whatever
[20:48:31] <alex_joni> hmm nice mirror from cncgear.com
[20:48:36] <SWPadnos> thanks
[20:48:38] <robin_sz> I know
[20:48:50] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is getting around 320 kB/sec
[20:48:51] <SWPadnos> (of course, the source for EMC is there as well :) )
[20:49:00] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos likes
[20:49:10] <robin_sz> but it means people can get the source easily too with an apt-get source etc
[20:51:10] <SWPadnos> Does anyone here have a fixed IP at home?
[20:51:26] <alex_joni> not here
[20:51:32] <alex_joni> but fixed at work
[20:51:53] <SWPadnos> I just got one, and I'm wondering about the setup of IMAP / CVS / etc. for remote access
[20:52:01] <SWPadnos> I'll read when I get home
[20:52:09] <alex_joni> what do you wanna know?
[20:52:19] <alex_joni> I'd suggest port knocking ;)
[20:52:42] <SWPadnos> well - that's a good idea, but I'm not sure my firewall/router will do it
[20:52:47] <alex_joni> use IMAP over SSL (port 993)
[20:52:52] <SWPadnos> (I only have 1 IP at home)
[20:52:59] <alex_joni> not a linux firewall/router ?
[20:53:07] <SWPadnos> Netgear - so sort of :)
[20:53:09] <alex_joni> that's what I'd use
[20:53:22] <alex_joni> yeah.. but I reckon without ssh access... right?
[20:53:22] <SWPadnos> I prefer the power usage of a small device
[20:53:27] <alex_joni> the Netgear that is
[20:53:45] <SWPadnos> well - I can probably get one of the hacked Linux kernels on it, if it's not there already
[20:53:56] <SWPadnos> (It's a WRT54G or something like it)
[20:54:09] <alex_joni> wireless router?
[20:54:20] <SWPadnos> yes - with wireless disabled
[20:54:28] <SWPadnos> (I'm not that stupid :) )
[20:54:34] <alex_joni> lol
[20:54:44] <alex_joni> a good WPA should do the trick on wireless too
[20:55:05] <SWPadnos> WPA?
[20:55:26] <alex_joni> yup.. a more secure authentication than WEP
[20:55:30] <SWPadnos> OK
[20:55:35] <robin_sz> Wireless Pizza Access
[20:55:39] <SWPadnos> Aaahhh
[20:55:40] <alex_joni> it's done with a RADIUS server behind the access point
[20:55:47] <alex_joni> and tunnelling to the client
[20:55:56] <SWPadnos> I'm not buzzword-compliant with Wireless
[20:56:02] <alex_joni> * alex_joni notes the pizza stuff down
[20:56:05] <robin_sz> it basically a scheme for providing high speed connections to baked food.
[20:56:12] <alex_joni> lol
[20:56:20] <alex_joni> robin: not so sure about those high speed
[20:56:23] <alex_joni> s
[20:56:29] <SWPadnos> Fast, unconnected Pizza ordering - good idea
[20:56:32] <robin_sz> your kidding?
[20:56:38] <alex_joni> I've had a few 100 Mbit access points
[20:56:43] <robin_sz> I tell you its WAY better than the old serial pizzas
[20:56:49] <alex_joni> doing roughly 50 Mbit at 50 cm apart
[20:56:56] <alex_joni> half a pizza
[20:56:57] <SWPadnos> Try pizza by Carrier pigeon
[20:57:15] <alex_joni> the new pizza's come in cans
[20:57:17] <SWPadnos> Well - I ought to run - they're boarding my new flight
[20:57:24] <alex_joni> already synched for 2.4 GHz
[20:57:29] <SWPadnos> I'll see people either tomorrow or Sunday
[20:57:36] <alex_joni> SWP: where are you heading?
[20:57:41] <SWPadnos> Home (Vermont)
[20:57:46] <alex_joni> cool
[20:57:50] <SWPadnos> very
[20:57:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads to a fair next week
[20:57:55] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: is that carrier pigeon as per RFC 1149?
[20:58:04] <alex_joni> so I'll probably skip this sundays meeting :(
[20:58:10] <SWPadnos> yes, I believe so :)
[20:58:14] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: or does it implenent RFC2549 QOS ?
[20:58:23] <alex_joni> 802.1x
[20:58:34] <SWPadnos> 802.00001
[20:58:40] <alex_joni> lol
[20:58:48] <SWPadnos> well - see ya
[20:58:53] <alex_joni> bye
[21:00:02] <alex_joni> robin: anything new?
[21:00:14] <robin_sz> mmmm ... playing plasma today
[21:00:19] <alex_joni> cool
[21:00:23] <robin_sz> sorta
[21:00:36] <alex_joni> cutting or designing?
[21:00:47] <robin_sz> interfacing to crap old non-cnc plasmas is a PITA
[21:01:04] <alex_joni> use start/stop relay:P
[21:01:16] <robin_sz> that part is easy
[21:01:21] <robin_sz> arc confirmation is harder
[21:01:22] <alex_joni> but?
[21:01:25] <alex_joni> ahhh
[21:01:31] <alex_joni> LEM on the ground cable
[21:01:50] <robin_sz> reed relay wrapped in the ground cable
[21:02:10] <alex_joni> how much mm?
[21:02:14] <alex_joni> the groudn cable?
[21:02:22] <robin_sz> 3 wraps did it
[21:02:28] <alex_joni> coo
[21:02:37] <robin_sz> an old pen tube and some cable ties
[21:02:50] <robin_sz> 90A ... it has its effect
[21:02:56] <alex_joni> nice
[21:03:04] <alex_joni> I did some welding today
[21:03:06] <robin_sz> cost: almost nothing
[21:03:17] <alex_joni> I really like the way ground cables vibrate on high currents
[21:03:18] <alex_joni> :D
[21:03:22] <robin_sz> heh
[21:03:31] <alex_joni> 90 mm^2 cables
[21:03:35] <robin_sz> hey, i found a new way to get bearings out of blind holes
[21:03:42] <alex_joni> yeah?
[21:03:50] <robin_sz> imagine casting with a blind bearing hole ..
[21:03:57] <Jymmm> robin_sz: plasma cutter?
[21:04:02] <alex_joni> what's a blind whole?
[21:04:04] <robin_sz> mangle the ball carrier
[21:04:06] <alex_joni> Jymmm: laser
[21:04:15] <Jymmm> alex_joni: a hole that doesn't go all the wya thru
[21:04:20] <alex_joni> I see
[21:04:22] <robin_sz> remove the centre
[21:04:24] <robin_sz> then ...
[21:04:40] <robin_sz> run a welder around the inside of the outer race
[21:04:45] <robin_sz> the weld shrinks.
[21:04:49] <robin_sz> the race falls out
[21:04:52] <Jymmm> robin_sz so your destoyin ghti sbearing inthe process?
[21:04:58] <robin_sz> Jymmm: sure.
[21:05:05] <Jymmm> robin_sz ok, just checking
[21:05:22] <robin_sz> without a puller, you'd be stuck ...
[21:06:02] <Jymmm> robin_sz: since you're being creative... can you come up with a "sensor" of sorts to zero-out a z axis automagically. I can only think of optical
[21:06:34] <robin_sz> how about optical? ;) ..
[21:06:39] <robin_sz> or a microswitch
[21:06:44] <robin_sz> but optical is good
[21:06:50] <Jymmm> microswitch didnt seem right
[21:06:56] <robin_sz> why not?
[21:07:07] <Jymmm> that 1/6th " play
[21:07:12] <robin_sz> eh?
[21:07:12] <alex_joni> how about an abs-encoder?
[21:07:14] <Jymmm> 1/16
[21:07:22] <alex_joni> * alex_joni really likes absolute encoders
[21:07:33] <robin_sz> microswitches have typically 0.002" repeatability
[21:07:47] <robin_sz> they make great homing switches
[21:08:00] <Jymmm> robin_sz: right, but I'm talking calibration purposes
[21:08:11] <robin_sz> so am i
[21:08:25] <robin_sz> you need better than 0.002"?
[21:08:26] <Jymmm> new tool on the spindle, zero out for table height
[21:09:17] <robin_sz> you can get special microswitches with better than 0,002" accuracy, but for most people its good enough
[21:09:25] <alex_joni> Jymmm: running steppers?
[21:09:33] <Jymmm> alex_joni yeah
[21:09:40] <alex_joni> drive the tool into the table ;)
[21:09:57] <Jymmm> robin_sz: ok, but how? mount a MS to the table itself?
[21:10:14] <robin_sz> yep, at a specific location
[21:10:28] <robin_sz> fix a hard hinged plate over it
[21:10:31] <Jymmm> and have the tool hit the button directly?
[21:10:41] <robin_sz> and arrange for it to be flat when it trips
[21:10:41] <alex_joni> hit the hinge
[21:10:46] <Jymmm> or via a lever/fulcrum
[21:10:49] <Jymmm> (sp)
[21:11:02] <robin_sz> switch directly under theplate
[21:11:22] <robin_sz> that way it works no ammter where the teeth on the cutter are
[21:11:29] <robin_sz> (worked fine on my router)
[21:11:45] <Jymmm> yeah I thought about the various tools
[21:12:17] <robin_sz> there are special tool-setting sensors and pads and stuff .. but they are like 1000s of dollars
[21:12:35] <alex_joni> robin: familiar with the TCP concept?
[21:12:37] <Jymmm> nah, nuttin like that. something simple and effective.
[21:12:39] <robin_sz> a $3 microswitch is amazingly accurate
[21:12:49] <robin_sz> alex_joni: the networking thing?
[21:12:56] <alex_joni> nah.. Tool Center Point
[21:12:59] <robin_sz> no
[21:13:13] <alex_joni> it's a pretty spread concept on robots
[21:13:25] <alex_joni> the thing is: the robot is made by the manufacturer
[21:13:34] <alex_joni> exactly the same size each time.. right?
[21:13:36] <Jymmm> robin_sz: or the other thing is hook up a ohmmeter
[21:13:49] <alex_joni> but you attach a tool to it, (e.g. a welding torch)
[21:13:58] <robin_sz> right
[21:14:01] <robin_sz> I understand
[21:14:04] <alex_joni> and the control needs to know where the tip of the wire is
[21:14:08] <robin_sz> right
[21:14:16] <robin_sz> for pivoting about a fixed poitn etc
[21:14:19] <alex_joni> the position of the tip is called Tool Center Point
[21:14:24] <robin_sz> k
[21:14:24] <alex_joni> for doing all the stuff
[21:14:30] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:14:31] <alex_joni> linear interpolation, circular, etc
[21:14:44] <alex_joni> there is also a TOV (Tool Orientation Vector)
[21:14:50] <robin_sz> right
[21:14:51] <alex_joni> same reason as above
[21:15:07] <alex_joni> when you change the tool (e.g. mount a plasma torch)
[21:15:13] <alex_joni> you need to change the TCP
[21:15:36] <Jymmm> Does anyone have a copy of Machinery Handbook?
[21:15:37] <alex_joni> but that's also done by teach-in (usually)
[21:15:40] <robin_sz> I can already imagine the matrix algebra ...
[21:15:47] <alex_joni> robin: right ;)
[21:16:02] <alex_joni> put a sharp object on the table
[21:16:14] <robin_sz> get someone to sit onit
[21:16:18] <alex_joni> and programm a few points pointing to this object (various directions)
[21:16:27] <alex_joni> and it can calculate the TCP
[21:16:36] <robin_sz> right
[21:16:41] <alex_joni> the nice stuff I've seen lately uses and light barrier
[21:16:51] <alex_joni> and it does it automagically ;)
[21:16:59] <robin_sz> interesting
[21:17:07] <alex_joni> yeah.. it's a nice concept
[21:17:12] <Jymmm> hey, what about a modified optical mouse?
[21:17:26] <alex_joni> Jymmm: optical mouses have very limited range
[21:17:34] <Jymmm> exactly
[21:17:41] <alex_joni> they don't see more than a few mm
[21:17:53] <alex_joni> but you don't get accuracy
[21:18:02] <alex_joni> how about a normal mouse
[21:18:10] <robin_sz> good idea
[21:18:17] <Jymmm> that requires physical contact
[21:18:21] <alex_joni> the wheel and the sensors connected to a thing that pushes down
[21:18:30] <alex_joni> when you push it down it makes the wheel rotate
[21:18:31] <robin_sz> you could have the tool press on the left-click button of the mouse ...
[21:18:40] <alex_joni> yeah .. that too ;)
[21:18:48] <alex_joni> ahhhhhhhh
[21:19:02] <alex_joni> and position the mouse to click on home (z-axis) on the screen
[21:19:03] <alex_joni> LOL
[21:19:06] <Jymmm> I'd want to use something that tools wouldnt eventually start pitting the MS
[21:19:15] <rayh> I used one of the mouse optical pairs and a wheel on the back side of a stepper for a home brewed index pulse.
[21:19:36] <robin_sz> rayh: this is tool length offset measuer, not homing
[21:19:57] <rayh> Ah.
[21:20:25] <robin_sz> Jymmm is looking for an alternative to a microswitch and a platform for the tool to press on.
[21:20:27] <rayh> Yes you need longer throw.
[21:21:10] <rayh> RS sold optical pairs trans and recieve.
[21:21:37] <Jymmm> What would be cool is touchpads but I thick tools would rip those apart in a heartbeat
[21:21:44] <robin_sz> yeah, I guess a platform with a flag that went between a IR pair ...
[21:22:07] <robin_sz> I doubt a IR pair and slot gets the same precision as a microswitch though
[21:22:09] <gezr> best way to set tool height is with an indicator fixed to a block
[21:22:17] <Jymmm> is it cherry ?
[21:22:22] <rayh> If you latched the pair when the sig dropped out you could spin the tool and move it into the beam.
[21:22:32] <gezr> and im home from work :)
[21:22:50] <robin_sz> rayh: will this work for v cuttters and 3" wide cutters?
[21:23:38] <rayh> You would certainly need to experiment.
[21:23:41] <gezr> electronic tool pre setters, use either a light gate or a micro switch that is an internal function of a spring held up contact plate
[21:23:53] <robin_sz> yep
[21:24:05] <gezr> the tool doesnt break the gate, but moves something that does
[21:24:16] <robin_sz> I got better than 0.002" out of my microswitch and a plate ..
[21:24:20] <gezr> yep
[21:24:31] <robin_sz> cost about 3 bucks
[21:24:38] <gezr> or less
[21:24:46] <robin_sz> optical is OK, but tends to get full of crud
[21:24:52] <gezr> freebie, "oh, your tossing a printer out hu?
[21:24:53] <gezr> "
[21:25:07] <rayh> Did you ramp the plate onto the micro?
[21:25:27] <robin_sz> I used a 'roller' micro directly under
[21:25:41] <robin_sz> aranged for it to be level on make ..
[21:25:42] <gezr> and a spring keeping theplate up right?
[21:25:45] <robin_sz> right
[21:25:48] <robin_sz> and a stop
[21:25:51] <robin_sz> so ..
[21:26:08] <robin_sz> it brought tool down quickish to switch break
[21:26:13] <robin_sz> then inched back to make
[21:26:27] <Jymmm> the only thing I dont like about the switch idea, is calibrating it for different platforms/work surfaces.
[21:26:52] <gezr> you either make it a direct thing on the machine, or it directly mounts to the machine table
[21:26:58] <robin_sz> I never had to do that
[21:27:03] <gezr> so that It could be moved on and off
[21:27:12] <robin_sz> I just mounted it permanently in one corner of the router
[21:27:17] <rayh> I did some home tests with an inductive prox and could get 0.001 consistently.
[21:27:33] <robin_sz> G37 and it just did its thing
[21:27:34] <Jymmm> rayh indu proxy?
[21:27:38] <Jymmm> proximity
[21:27:46] <rayh> Yes.
[21:27:59] <rayh> $20 from automationdirect
[21:28:00] <robin_sz> essentially an expensive microswitch :)
[21:28:02] <Jymmm> rayh tell us more =)
[21:28:24] <rayh> * rayh goes to get a link.
[21:28:37] <Jymmm> see I'm thinking something like a joystick
[21:28:40] <robin_sz> imaghine a set up with a flat plate and a microswitch ...
[21:29:01] <robin_sz> now .. remove the 3$ micro... replace it with an inductive proximity switch
[21:29:06] <robin_sz> there you go :)
[21:29:28] <Jymmm> I've never heard of them. I have a inductive pickup (tone tracer)
[21:29:41] <robin_sz> its a sort of small flat package
[21:29:46] <robin_sz> same size as a micro
[21:29:57] <Jymmm> robin_sz: is it on/off or more like 0-255
[21:30:00] <robin_sz> except it triggers when you get a piece of metal cloase
[21:30:03] <robin_sz> on/off
[21:30:12] <gezr> the most accurate way to set a tool, is to take a test cut at the exact same depth in the same material you plan on cutting :)
[21:30:23] <robin_sz> good call!
[21:30:24] <robin_sz> :)
[21:30:41] <Jymmm> "...automagically"
[21:30:42] <gezr> everything else is just close
[21:30:58] <gezr> so .002inch is nothing, and speaking of that
[21:31:03] <gezr> robin_sz : are you talking .002mm?
[21:32:02] <robin_sz> Jymmm: just remind us, you are building this for $400 or less out of drill rod and home-made bearing blocks right, and you are worrying about +002" on the tool presetter when you have +-0.1" of sag on the axis/
[21:32:41] <gezr> Ide like to think that A guy at home would not be able to measure .002mm but then again, you guys do have some fancy stuff
[21:32:46] <robin_sz> the trick is to keep things in proportion ...
[21:33:02] <robin_sz> gezr: 0.002" ...
[21:33:06] <gezr> .002" deviation on pre setting is nothing
[21:33:29] <gezr> pre i think is +/- what .010?
[21:33:30] <Jymmm> robin_sz: no, just a general "device" that could be attached to anythign
[21:33:48] <robin_sz> well
[21:33:58] <Jymmm> s/general/generic
[21:33:59] <robin_sz> there are digital tool presetters
[21:34:15] <Jymmm> robin_sz and expensive I suspect.
[21:34:22] <robin_sz> like a block with a high-precision plunger on top
[21:34:27] <rayh> http://web2.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Sensors_-z-_Encoders/Inductive_Proximity_Sensors/Rectangular_(CR-z-DR-z-APS_Series)/8X8mm_(CR8_Series)/CR8-AN-1A
[21:34:49] <rayh> I guess you'll have to put that back together.
[21:34:56] <gezr> Jymmm : if you held a pen in a vise, and pressed the make the pen part pop out thing, click click, and used an indicator to measure that motion as the writting tip extended and then rested, you would find that it returns to the exact same spot, same thing can be built into a tool setter
[21:35:40] <Jymmm> I'm thinking something like a modified PCB joystick that adj the a pot
[21:35:50] <robin_sz> oh yeah ..
[21:35:52] <robin_sz> pots.
[21:36:02] <gezr> the switch will always break or make at retively the exact same spot, the "user" will determine the total effective error, as in how fast do you do the setting
[21:36:33] <robin_sz> now .. pots are fun
[21:36:57] <robin_sz> bet you cant get +- 0.020 " out of a pot
[21:37:10] <robin_sz> over a 3 week period with temperature drift
[21:37:37] <robin_sz> those things vary like anything as moisture content and weatehr change
[21:38:32] <robin_sz> at the end of the day, you won't beat a pair of contacts
[21:38:51] <gezr> you could use a door bell
[21:38:57] <gezr> when the bell rings set the tool
[21:39:04] <alex_joni> gezr: lol
[21:39:10] <alex_joni> and use a mic
[21:39:48] <gezr> I use a sheet of paper and whatever I know is, paper is .004" thick
[21:40:18] <gezr> once I cant move the paper under the tool, i move the tool down .004 more and blame
[21:40:20] <gezr> blamo
[21:41:04] <robin_sz> anyway, once you have set the tools in their holders,
[21:41:20] <robin_sz> entered the offsets from the digital height gauge into the tool library ..
[21:41:30] <robin_sz> why would you need to measure anything>
[21:41:32] <robin_sz> ???
[21:41:53] <gezr> because tools dont act the same under load
[21:42:10] <gezr> unless its a special tool
[21:42:17] <robin_sz> well, thats your piece-of-paper test screwed too then ;)
[21:42:40] <gezr> robin_sz : yeah, its just a method of getting close, or pre setting
[21:42:57] <rayh> The guys at the shop set up tools with a stand and micrometer.
[21:43:08] <gezr> ive done it that way too
[21:43:09] <robin_sz> exactly
[21:43:17] <rayh> but find a couple thou variation.
[21:43:29] <rayh> When they measure with a mazak tool measuring stand.
[21:43:34] <gezr> its not so much as to make a perfect part right off the bat, but not burry the tool in the part
[21:43:48] <rayh> With the tool measure, they can get within a couple theths.
[21:43:48] <gezr> its all a matter of what sort of part your making
[21:43:54] <robin_sz> aww!
[21:43:56] <rayh> damn fingers.
[21:43:58] <robin_sz> thats the best bit!
[21:44:29] <gezr> thats a what 8k piece of equipment though right?
[21:44:42] <rayh> Those stands use inductive proximity switches.
[21:44:44] <robin_sz> the fun of seeing a mice 3/4shank turning tool fight it out with a 12" 4 jaw chuck ...
[21:44:59] <rayh> That's about what they sell for but could be built for lots less.
[21:45:11] <rayh> That was my notion with the home testing.
[21:45:13] <gezr> rayh : yeah, but when the first part counts :)
[21:45:43] <robin_sz> rayh: know any/many home users with interchangelabel toolholders?
[21:45:45] <rayh> You could rather easily dupicate the stand with a pair of prox switches.
[21:46:11] <gezr> robin_sz : thats what im going to be using :)
[21:46:16] <rayh> The little thing for sherline machines is fairly popular.
[21:47:02] <robin_sz> anyway
[21:47:08] <rayh> Guy sent me a sample tool setting block that he makes with EMC the other day.
[21:47:23] <robin_sz> free?
[21:47:24] <rayh> 40 taper. Nice job.
[21:47:48] <gezr> robin_sz : big kiaser I think is a nice design that incoporates many types of tooling
[21:47:51] <rayh> Engraved a US flag on it. I told him he had to much time and not enough demand.
[21:48:04] <robin_sz> heh
[21:48:19] <rayh> cat40.com
[21:48:20] <robin_sz> was it a aprtial taper (ie two thin bands) ??
[21:48:28] <robin_sz> partial
[21:48:29] <rayh> www.cat40.com
[21:48:31] <rayh> sorry
[21:49:26] <robin_sz> hmm
[21:49:43] <robin_sz> so he sets against the back of the tool holder, not the taper?
[21:49:49] <robin_sz> I'll pass, thanks.
[21:50:10] <rayh> He puts a block on his table and sets against that.
[21:50:47] <robin_sz> the reference is the taper
[21:51:08] <robin_sz> using misc. other bits of the holder is not great
[21:51:12] <rayh> Started out just to hold the 40 holder while he tightened the tool.
[21:52:08] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:52:10] <robin_sz> ah well
[21:52:35] <robin_sz> real ones use a taper, like the one in the spindle
[21:53:09] <robin_sz> but just two thin bands, one up high, one low, to give a solid contact
[21:53:18] <robin_sz> well, the ones ive seen have anyway
[21:54:19] <robin_sz> and you need to keep the tool tapers clean to keep it consistent
[21:55:43] <gezr> whooohooo its scifi friday :)
[22:00:25] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[22:00:27] <alex_joni> night guys
[22:04:07] <rayh> see you alex.
[22:04:32] <alex_joni> bye ray.. I'm afraid I'll miss this sunday's meeting
[22:04:37] <alex_joni> I'll be on the road
[22:05:16] <rayh> Have a good trip and time at the fair.
[22:05:33] <alex_joni> well.. I only get there to set things up ;)
[22:05:51] <alex_joni> think I'll only stay for a day or two
[22:51:38] <gezr> well, I just spent an hour reading about starwars 3, omg its gonna be good
[22:54:40] <robin_z> coo