#emc | Logs for 2005-02-26

[00:00:31] <les> I don't consider it spam as long as really try to help folks
[00:01:16] <websys> I've only been in the CAD/CAM business for 30 years
[00:01:20] <anonimasu> oh, nah.. :)
[00:01:22] <anonimasu> it's not spam..
[00:01:32] <anonimasu> not if the message contains substance..
[00:01:41] <les> The key is to put real content on your site...not just spin
[00:02:17] <les> I have more articles to go on mine as soon as I have time
[00:03:06] <les> The scraping and emc bits get a thousand hits a month or so
[00:03:36] <anonimasu> I think I might have sold my crappy little lathe..
[00:03:54] <les> getting a bigger one?
[00:04:22] <anonimasu> saving the meehanite chuck.. for building a small cnc lathe..
[00:04:42] <les> I learned on a $125 unimat
[00:04:45] <anonimasu> it costs more then the lathe..
[00:04:55] <les> (when I was 15 or so)
[00:05:07] <anonimasu> I have a large lathe at work..
[00:05:48] <anonimasu> but I want a small and very precise cnc lathe
[00:05:53] <les> My current shop lathe is small but good
[00:06:01] <anonimasu> 1m of bed..
[00:06:12] <les> I just wanted it big enough to do ballscrew ends etc
[00:06:22] <anonimasu> and with linear rails..
[00:06:55] <anonimasu> and a oversized motor..
[00:07:03] <anonimasu> with a heap of torque..
[00:07:05] <les> I gave away two Hardinge cnc with burned bandit controls when I moved
[00:07:09] <les> sorry now
[00:07:16] <anonimasu> yeah
[00:08:14] <les> they wold have required a third long trip in the truck
[00:08:15] <anonimasu> I dont need a extremely large lathe.. but it has to be rigid enough to cut hardened steel..
[00:08:20] <A-L-P-H-A> who's using an atmega in here, that's using it with the free RTOS?
[00:08:26] <A-L-P-H-A> was it you anonimasu?
[00:08:38] <anonimasu> hm, not with a RTOS
[00:08:39] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, anneal it?
[00:08:54] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, did you use some OS with it? just wondering.
[00:08:56] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: that is not the point..
[00:09:01] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: no..
[00:09:05] <A-L-P-H-A> was wondering what an os did for an uC.
[00:09:12] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: multitasking
[00:09:18] <anonimasu> preemptive multitasking..
[00:09:20] <anonimasu> :)
[00:09:22] <anonimasu> or somthing like that
[00:09:23] <A-L-P-H-A> ahh neat.
[00:09:53] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: the point was that I want a small lathe rigid enough to cut that..
[00:09:55] <anonimasu> :D
[00:10:55] <les> Ah...paul...moderator dave chimed in
[00:11:00] <les> chimed
[00:11:06] <anonimasu> ?
[00:11:15] <les> on the fred post thing
[00:12:00] <anonimasu> what did he do?
[00:14:12] <les> not sure....seems to think the poster should give more information about what he wants to do
[00:14:48] <anonimasu> ARGH.
[00:14:56] <anonimasu> I checked the prices of meehanite cast stuff..
[00:15:29] <les> expensive
[00:15:35] <anonimasu> yeah
[00:15:38] <anonimasu> like 600$
[00:16:29] <anonimasu> dad said that the chuck was almost 900$
[00:16:29] <anonimasu> ;)
[00:16:37] <les> Well do like the cultural revolution in '60's china
[00:16:43] <anonimasu> that's more then the lathe retailed as new..
[00:16:52] <anonimasu> :p
[00:16:53] <les> a smelter for every family
[00:17:07] <les> course all they made was a lot of slag
[00:17:16] <anonimasu> smelter?
[00:17:27] <les> creating cast iron
[00:17:34] <anonimasu> ah ok
[00:18:01] <anonimasu> http://www.knuth.de/prod_eng/drehen/cnc/zyklengesteuert/proton460_530.htm
[00:18:13] <les> looking
[00:18:17] <anonimasu> I should just drop the idea of a new car within 4 years and buy that ;)
[00:18:44] <anonimasu> ouch. I looked at the wrong price..
[00:18:45] <anonimasu> :)
[00:19:13] <les> nice
[00:19:29] <anonimasu> the 8 station turrent was like a new:er car.
[00:19:32] <anonimasu> ;)
[00:19:33] <les> I just buy the inexpensive Bison chucks
[00:19:52] <les> They seem fine
[00:20:08] <anonimasu> yeah probably
[00:20:20] <les> made in Poland?
[00:20:21] <anonimasu> he bought it because he was planning on building a lathe many years ago..
[00:20:30] <anonimasu> no
[00:20:35] <anonimasu> I think it's taiwan or somthing like that
[00:20:45] <les> let me check
[00:21:17] <anonimasu> I dont know really
[00:23:01] <anonimasu> I just know it was super expensive :)
[00:23:47] <anonimasu> but I need to change it before I sell the lathe
[00:24:58] <les> not sure where bison comes from..one site says european but not where or whether it's outsourced
[00:25:11] <anonimasu> yeah maybe
[00:25:39] <les> I have a rotary table from Tiawan that claims to be mehanite
[00:25:53] <anonimasu> hm, it could be..
[00:26:02] <anonimasu> they reverse engineer anything in taiwan..
[00:26:03] <anonimasu> :D
[00:26:17] <les> but mehanite is a process not a material so who knows
[00:26:20] <anonimasu> I've seen copied stuff that held higher quality then the part copied..
[00:26:35] <anonimasu> err then what it was copied from..
[00:26:37] <les> yup
[00:26:39] <anonimasu> :D
[00:26:53] <anonimasu> I dont see why meehanite wouldnt exist in taiwan..
[00:27:02] <anonimasu> they do build heaps of machines over there
[00:27:32] <anonimasu> I dont know about the quality but it seems like it's good
[00:27:42] <les> At this point most of my woodworking stuff is tiawan...metal stuff is uk or us
[00:28:02] <les> The components for my cnc were mostly German
[00:28:27] <les> Japanese rails
[00:28:33] <les> THK
[00:28:52] <anonimasu> :)
[00:29:47] <les> The far east woodworking stuff is usually ok...sometimes I put better bearing and other things on them
[00:30:56] <les> I checked that $40 spin index I bought for sharpening
[00:31:01] <les> chinese
[00:31:32] <les> slop in the bore was .005 mm
[00:31:35] <les> not bad
[00:31:38] <anonimasu> not at all
[00:31:45] <anonimasu> that's far beyond what I can measure
[00:31:58] <les> was parallel to base within .015 mm
[00:32:22] <les> I have a lab grade plate and square
[00:32:59] <les> collet seat was good to abour .01
[00:33:10] <anonimasu> :)
[00:33:11] <les> that was the poorest machined part
[00:33:18] <anonimasu> that's still good
[00:33:24] <les> yes
[00:33:37] <les> fine for sharpening router bits
[00:33:43] <anonimasu> yeah
[00:34:11] <anonimasu> most people have no idea how hard getting 0.01mm when machining on stuff..
[00:34:48] <les> I think they make those things by lapping a slightly tapered spindle into the housing
[00:35:07] <les> the lapping compound breaks down and stops cutting
[00:35:15] <anonimasu> yep
[00:36:05] <les> It is slightly tighter at one end so I suspected that
[00:36:48] <les> It is close enough that if you remove the spindle and warm it by holding in your hand it will not fit in the bore
[00:36:57] <anonimasu> hehe
[00:36:59] <anonimasu> neat
[00:37:08] <anonimasu> that's the precision I like when turning parts
[00:37:14] <les> yeah
[00:37:38] <les> bearing fits are like that
[00:37:39] <anonimasu> that's about 0.01
[00:37:54] <anonimasu> I did that on my dub.. on the lathe.. :)
[00:37:58] <les> depending on size yeah
[00:38:30] <anonimasu> I warmed the part with the hands then the bearing slid nicely into it..
[00:39:04] <les> Abec7 bearing work requires about .002
[00:39:12] <les> I must hone to get that
[00:39:16] <anonimasu> hm.. yeah
[00:39:17] <anonimasu> you cant turn that..
[00:39:28] <anonimasu> unless you have a super good lathe..
[00:39:33] <les> not easy even to grind
[00:39:43] <les> must really watch temperature
[00:39:50] <anonimasu> I think you could do it with one of thoose swiss made precision lathes...
[00:39:59] <anonimasu> I saw some used one on a auction..
[00:40:16] <anonimasu> it was like 60 000eur..
[00:40:20] <les> wow
[00:40:40] <anonimasu> cant remember any brand or anything like that..
[00:41:13] <les> Bearing work is slow for me because I must hone, measure, hone, measure etc
[00:41:26] <les> But I can get it done
[00:41:30] <anonimasu> father said what it was the "mercedes of lathes" when he found it..
[00:41:33] <anonimasu> yeah
[00:42:34] <anonimasu> my aim for the mill is to be able to keep the precision within 0.01
[00:42:39] <A-L-P-H-A> any free CAD package, that's comparable to the polish of autocad [which isn't all that polished to me to begin with]
[00:42:44] <les> Putting parts on the lathe collet with the tool post grinder would yirld only about .01- .015
[00:42:52] <A-L-P-H-A> looking to make the complete plunge into linux.
[00:42:55] <les> not good enough for some bearings
[00:43:06] <anonimasu> hm solidworks!
[00:43:16] <anonimasu> *grins*
[00:43:26] <A-L-P-H-A> free? :) [although, I could go other means]
[00:43:39] <anonimasu> not really
[00:43:45] <anonimasu> but it's the greatest cad package there is..
[00:43:45] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight.
[00:43:46] <anonimasu> I think�
[00:43:56] <paul_c> wine+vector ?
[00:44:02] <les> I like linux....learned about it because of emc
[00:44:12] <A-L-P-H-A> never tried vector.
[00:44:17] <A-L-P-H-A> wine+autocad don't work well.
[00:44:21] <les> wish I knew a bit more about the gnu compiler
[00:44:26] <anonimasu> hm I learned linux beacuse I wanted to be l33t a couple of years back
[00:44:40] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: talk to chris about autocad r13 for DOS running under Linux .. he's pretty happy with his current setup
[00:44:51] <jepler> er, cradek
[00:44:52] <A-L-P-H-A> <shudders...>
[00:45:09] <anonimasu> like 6 years ago..
[00:45:17] <anonimasu> :)
[00:45:18] <A-L-P-H-A> I hated Autocad r10, and r14.... they were just sooo slow. ut then again, I was running with a pentium back then.
[00:45:37] <paul_c> there is also qcad and synergy - Both run under linux.
[00:45:50] <anonimasu> are any of thoose parametric?
[00:45:57] <les> Using 2000 now...it's ok. Really need solidworks
[00:45:59] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't really need parametric.
[00:46:08] <anonimasu> oh I am just curious :)
[00:46:12] <A-L-P-H-A> though parametric would make my live sooo much nicer.
[00:46:20] <anonimasu> it's what I love about solidworks..
[00:46:31] <les> I just need fast pretty rendered pictures for clients to see
[00:46:37] <anonimasu> define -(12mm) and then add a circle as tangent..
[00:47:17] <anonimasu> then to move all the holes further from the edge just input how far away from the edge you want em..
[00:47:19] <A-L-P-H-A> les, rhino + pengiun. they're affordable, as a complete cad package.
[00:47:43] <les> I have tried rhino but not penguin
[00:47:49] <les> seemed ok
[00:47:49] <A-L-P-H-A> legit routes are beginning to interest me.
[00:48:08] <anonimasu> yep...
[00:48:12] <anonimasu> but prices are so horrid
[00:48:39] <les> Actually I just remembered...I have money again....how much is a seat of solidworks?
[00:48:47] <anonimasu> 4000eur
[00:48:50] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[00:48:55] <A-L-P-H-A> ouch
[00:48:59] <anonimasu> about covers the basic license..
[00:49:01] <anonimasu> ;)
[00:49:06] <les> oh :(
[00:49:09] <anonimasu> + you have a yearly licensing fee..
[00:49:11] <anonimasu> :/
[00:49:31] <anonimasu> but well, considering autocad costs 1100eur..
[00:49:45] <A-L-P-H-A> cheaper, if you get the trade mags...
[00:49:49] <A-L-P-H-A> being a yearly liscense.
[00:50:01] <A-L-P-H-A> plus you get support with yearly liscense.
[00:50:06] <les> I could fly airplanes and play golf a lot for 4000 euro
[00:50:08] <anonimasu> yeah, but autocad dosent compare to solidworks..
[00:50:18] <A-L-P-H-A> true
[00:50:32] <anonimasu> I found some program that was similiar to solidowrks
[00:50:36] <anonimasu> also parametric..
[00:50:39] <anonimasu> hold on a bit let me find it
[00:52:49] <anonimasu> cant find it right now
[00:52:59] <anonimasu> there was a program that was similiar to solidworks I found a while back..
[00:53:03] <anonimasu> that I tried the demo off..
[00:53:07] <anonimasu> it was quite good
[00:53:11] <anonimasu> and it didnt cost 1/10
[00:53:20] <anonimasu> or well 500$ maybe..
[00:53:32] <les> same file format?
[00:53:59] <anonimasu> no
[00:54:28] <anonimasu> but I'll look what it was when I go to work and unpack my other laptop
[00:55:10] <les> These days I guess I could do 4000 euro for solidworks but I could think of a lot of ways to have more fun with that kind of cash
[00:55:35] <anonimasu> yeah
[00:55:58] <les> but if customers expect it you have to have it
[00:56:03] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[00:56:34] <les> depends on how much engineering vs woodwork I want to do
[00:56:46] <anonimasu> yeah
[01:18:31] <anonimasu> how do you intend to build the paint robot?
[01:28:06] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, what os are you using for uC?
[01:28:09] <A-L-P-H-A> and what uC?
[01:28:24] <anonimasu> at90s8515..
[01:28:32] <anonimasu> and atmega(somthing)
[01:28:48] <A-L-P-H-A> 4,8,etc... cool.
[01:28:51] <anonimasu> yeah
[01:28:55] <A-L-P-H-A> any OS on them?
[01:28:56] <anonimasu> I cant remember wich right now..
[01:28:58] <anonimasu> nope..
[01:29:05] <A-L-P-H-A> oh straight programming on them.
[01:29:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[01:29:10] <anonimasu> I usually dont have a need for multitaskin..
[01:29:32] <A-L-P-H-A> SWP_eating, is awesome with AVR code... whiddled my code from 200 down to 122. I whiddled it from 240 to 200...
[01:29:32] <anonimasu> g
[01:29:45] <anonimasu> hehe
[01:29:54] <anonimasu> I could probably write somthing to handle that..
[01:30:30] <A-L-P-H-A> well. it was just a stepper driver
[01:31:04] <anonimasu> I mean multitasking..
[01:31:46] <anonimasu> :)
[01:31:57] <anonimasu> but I havent been fiddling too much wuth AVR's..
[01:31:59] <anonimasu> with..
[01:32:05] <A-L-P-H-A> SWP_eating, says I should put a turn off switch, to turn off the transistors.
[01:32:21] <anonimasu> since work takes too much energy
[01:32:27] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[01:32:32] <anonimasu> to keep em cool?
[01:33:01] <anonimasu> or to stop them if somting fscks..
[01:33:18] <A-L-P-H-A> keep cool, and not melt.
[01:33:41] <anonimasu> hm..
[01:33:46] <anonimasu> that's why you have heatsinks..
[01:33:57] <A-L-P-H-A> on a stepper motor?
[01:34:01] <anonimasu> all heatsink manufacturers state how many W of heat they disspasiate..
[01:34:12] <anonimasu> oh current reduction..
[01:34:17] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah.
[01:34:28] <anonimasu> yeah..
[01:34:45] <A-L-P-H-A> current reduction for the coils.
[01:35:17] <anonimasu> you could do that with a offset voltage..
[01:35:28] <anonimasu> for the transistors..
[01:36:00] <A-L-P-H-A> off set with what?
[01:36:09] <anonimasu> the witha potentiometer..
[01:36:26] <A-L-P-H-A> dunno how I'd wire that up.
[01:36:33] <anonimasu> me neither..
[01:36:37] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[01:36:59] <anonimasu> let me google a bit..
[01:37:04] <A-L-P-H-A> I was just going to use the two internal timers, and jsut make them turn off when they hit like 5ms.
[01:37:19] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, cool. if you figure it out, that'd be awesome
[01:38:03] <anonimasu> make the voltage be at a certain level always when you turn off the motion..
[01:38:20] <anonimasu> I think that causes the steppers to lock up
[01:40:01] <anonimasu> I am unsure if thats how it works..
[01:40:33] <A-L-P-H-A> I need a current limiter, not a voltage reg.
[01:40:44] <anonimasu> yea..
[01:40:47] <anonimasu> ofcourse..
[01:40:47] <A-L-P-H-A> so I'd need to have a transistor like resistor.
[01:41:38] <anonimasu> you shouldnt have any power when not running the stepper or should you?
[01:41:50] <anonimasu> with your current setup
[01:42:25] <A-L-P-H-A> well, for my use, it really doesn't matter too much, as there wouldn't be much of a need for holding torque.
[01:43:39] <anonimasu> hm dont you turn off everything out when you turn off your output at the avr?
[01:44:13] <A-L-P-H-A> but it should have enough amps to hold the position
[01:45:58] <anonimasu> a idle output and a gate to turn on a transistor to hold everything still..
[01:46:11] <anonimasu> you understand what I mean right?
[01:46:29] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, so just to lower the current to a holding current.
[01:46:33] <anonimasu> yep..
[01:46:48] <A-L-P-H-A> so it's be like turn down the voltage to whatever it was regulated for.
[01:47:08] <anonimasu> and with the gate you put whatever holding voltage you want through the transistors..
[01:47:12] <A-L-P-H-A> so like if the stepper was 4V 1.2Amp. I should use 4V, when I'm just holding it.
[01:47:28] <anonimasu> voltage & amperage follow
[01:47:29] <anonimasu> s
[01:47:48] <A-L-P-H-A> v=ir that's all, or am I missing something that I don't knwo cause I'm not an elec. eng.
[01:47:55] <anonimasu> nope..
[01:48:12] <anonimasu> but voltage and amperage always follows eachother..
[01:48:14] <anonimasu> :
[01:48:15] <anonimasu> :)
[01:48:28] <anonimasu> ofcourse you can current limit with a resistor but that'd be a awky solution
[01:48:46] <anonimasu> a gate and a trimpotentiometer.. and wires to your transistors
[01:48:54] <anonimasu> after the diode on each avr pin..
[01:48:58] <A-L-P-H-A> ahh!
[01:49:08] <anonimasu> ->-|-(TRANSISTOR)-OUT
[01:49:19] <A-L-P-H-A> so like, turn off the coil transistor, and turn on the holding torque transistor.
[01:49:31] <anonimasu> you use the same..
[01:49:46] <anonimasu> when you turn off your outputs the voltage from the avr (5V goes down to 0)
[01:50:06] <anonimasu> and the gate latches the 5v into the avr onto the trimpot, where you limit it..
[01:50:11] <anonimasu> and throw it back to the transistors..
[01:50:40] <anonimasu> and use them for holding it aswell..
[01:50:47] <anonimasu> so you dont need another setup of transistors..
[01:51:27] <anonimasu> :)
[01:51:30] <anonimasu> following?
[01:51:56] <anonimasu> if you want I can draw it up since I have my webcam over here..
[01:54:07] <anonimasu> :)
[01:59:53] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[01:59:55] <anonimasu> goodnight
[02:00:54] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, sorry reading now.
[02:01:17] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, yeah, draw it up. if you wouldn't mind.
[02:02:32] <anonimasu> ok
[02:02:36] <anonimasu> just a sec.
[02:02:37] <A-L-P-H-A> thanks
[02:03:37] <anonimasu> I dont know the symbol for the gate.. so I'll draw it as a switch.
[02:03:57] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight
[02:04:16] <A-L-P-H-A> isn't a gate like two lines in, in line out, on a elongated dome?
[02:04:28] <anonimasu> no idea..
[02:04:29] <A-L-P-H-A> of is that a triangle as a gate? [thought that was just misc IC]
[02:04:32] <anonimasu> yeah
[02:04:37] <A-L-P-H-A> of=or :)
[02:04:38] <anonimasu> thats a opamp
[02:04:41] <anonimasu> yeah
[02:04:46] <anonimasu> somthing like that..
[02:08:35] <anonimasu> soon done
[02:10:02] <anonimasu> done now..
[02:10:11] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight
[02:10:14] <A-L-P-H-A> dcc?
[02:10:58] <anonimasu> web..
[02:11:07] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight
[02:11:09] <A-L-P-H-A> works as well.
[02:13:31] <anonimasu> its very tiny.
[02:13:50] <anonimasu> :)
[02:14:00] <A-L-P-H-A> is that what all the girls say to you?
[02:14:01] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[02:14:02] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[02:14:17] <anonimasu> yeah
[02:14:34] <anonimasu> www.bojn.net/~an0n/crap.jpg
[02:14:52] <anonimasu> http://www.bojn.net/~an0n/crap.JPG
[02:14:52] <anonimasu> err
[02:14:54] <anonimasu> like that
[02:15:10] <anonimasu> I drew it like a relay instead since that's the only thing that I know of :)
[02:15:30] <anonimasu> ask while I am here..
[02:15:39] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... I'll figure it out, I don't see anything really... just a blur.
[02:15:46] <anonimasu> damn...
[02:15:47] <anonimasu> heh
[02:15:48] <anonimasu> wait.
[02:15:48] <A-L-P-H-A> not in any hurry. :)
[02:16:40] <anonimasu> I'll draw a example for one channel in a txt..
[02:17:38] <A-L-P-H-A> okay
[02:22:39] <anonimasu> done..
[02:23:03] <A-L-P-H-A> it'd be nice to have a java whiteboard program. :)
[02:23:27] <A-L-P-H-A> like two people log onto a website [maybe iwth a password for the chan], and then whiteboards to share the info
[02:23:27] <anonimasu> yeah
[02:23:35] <anonimasu> there's somthing like that somwhere..
[02:23:38] <anonimasu> I have my wacom here..
[02:23:38] <anonimasu> :)
[02:23:43] <anonimasu> although it's better to draw in realtime..
[02:23:44] <A-L-P-H-A> nice.
[02:24:22] <A-L-P-H-A> hey gezr
[02:24:28] <gezr> howdy A-L-P-H-A
[02:25:04] <anonimasu> http://www.bojn.net/~an0n/crap2.jpg
[02:25:45] <gezr> hmm
[02:25:48] <anonimasu> does that make more sense?
[02:25:50] <gezr> scifi friday is on :)
[02:26:59] <A-L-P-H-A> W1 - W4, are the phase coils?
[02:27:07] <anonimasu> w1-w4 are the outputs from the avr..
[02:27:10] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, watched everything I want already.
[02:27:13] <A-L-P-H-A> ahh
[02:27:19] <anonimasu> the thing that's called transistors goes to the transistors..
[02:27:27] <anonimasu> :D
[02:27:32] <anonimasu> however you did wire em..
[02:27:33] <anonimasu> :9
[02:27:34] <anonimasu> :P
[02:27:56] <anonimasu> when you turn idle off you will out the current through the variable resistor..
[02:28:06] <anonimasu> and into the transistor amps of yours..
[02:28:25] <anonimasu> and output as much current as the reistor specifies..
[02:28:37] <anonimasu> voltage/current..
[02:29:10] <anonimasu> the diodes are there so you wont kill your avr..
[02:29:26] <anonimasu> or get any power to the wrong transistor..
[02:30:43] <anonimasu> err idle on..
[02:30:48] <anonimasu> damn I am tired..
[02:30:48] <anonimasu> :)
[02:30:55] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: there?
[02:31:05] <A-L-P-H-A> here
[02:31:20] <A-L-P-H-A> no problem.
[02:31:22] <A-L-P-H-A> go to sleep.
[02:31:23] <A-L-P-H-A> chat tomorrow.
[02:32:43] <anonimasu> ah dont worry
[02:32:46] <anonimasu> did you get what I mean?
[02:32:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I see it, but I don't really know how it works.
[02:33:14] <A-L-P-H-A> you're sending out the entire thing to ALL the transistors though. that's the problem.
[02:33:20] <anonimasu> no it isnt..
[02:33:20] <anonimasu> :)
[02:33:25] <A-L-P-H-A> this is how I have them wired up so far.
[02:33:25] <A-L-P-H-A> sec.
[02:33:30] <anonimasu> ok..
[02:33:58] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.dakeng.com/u2.html
[02:34:07] <A-L-P-H-A> except I'm using an 90s2313 instead of a pic
[02:34:16] <anonimasu> yeah..
[02:34:26] <anonimasu> after the resistor you should have your diode..
[02:34:27] <anonimasu> >
[02:34:30] <anonimasu> ->-
[02:34:54] <A-L-P-H-A> ~~~~ --|>|---<transistor>
[02:34:54] <anonimasu> there's really no problem with it :9
[02:35:01] <anonimasu> yeah
[02:35:13] <A-L-P-H-A> I know what you mean... I could have a 1n48** in there.
[02:35:16] <A-L-P-H-A> wouldn't hurt.
[02:35:18] <anonimasu> --|>|-(X)-(transistor)
[02:35:27] <anonimasu> where x is where you connect the wires.. to..
[02:35:34] <anonimasu> whats the prob with that?
[02:35:59] <A-L-P-H-A> see with your diagram, it's telling all the transistors to go off.
[02:36:25] <anonimasu> go off?
[02:36:36] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm thinking like this:
[02:37:06] <anonimasu> you could put a OR gate on each chanel
[02:37:26] <gezr> whatchya making?
[02:37:30] <A-L-P-H-A> have a transistor where I have the 12VDC motor pwr is ... and switch that on/off, or another transistor that goes off/on with the holding voltage.
[02:37:38] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, cheapy stepper drive for fun projects.
[02:38:01] <anonimasu> yes but there's really no difference between your solution and what I said..
[02:38:02] <gezr> unc5894b about 3 bucks each
[02:38:11] <anonimasu> the only thing is that you dont have 3 extra transistors..
[02:38:14] <gezr> 5804 that is, but they have replaced it
[02:38:16] <anonimasu> but use the ones you have already
[02:38:16] <anonimasu> :)
[02:38:17] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, won't work for 5amps. :)
[02:38:22] <gezr> ah
[02:38:45] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, I just need 1.2amps, but the transistors I have are good for 5amps.
[02:38:49] <gezr> i have a schematic that uses 2 ics, and a bank of transistors, its a bit more for all the parts
[02:39:09] <gezr> uses tip120 darlington drivers
[02:39:31] <A-L-P-H-A> my stepper driver could cost like, $15 total, for a half stepping, 80V - 5amp driver. :)
[02:39:50] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr I use tip121. but bigger bro to the tip120
[02:39:58] <gezr> ah yeah
[02:40:06] <A-L-P-H-A> tip122 even bigger bro
[02:40:27] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: if you have io's to spare you can build it like that for all channels..
[02:40:31] <anonimasu> and have a idle for each..
[02:40:40] <anonimasu> but without more transistors :)
[02:42:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I have 2 io to spare.
[02:42:35] <anonimasu> ok
[02:42:45] <anonimasu> well I'd go for what I said if you need a holding current..
[02:43:01] <anonimasu> since you use what you have already.. :)
[02:43:02] <A-L-P-H-A> 4 (step/dir), and (8 transistors) = two stepper motor driver. [I have 15 io] So I acatually have 3 io left.
[02:43:48] <A-L-P-H-A> see anonimasu, I dont' get how you're giving it that.
[02:43:52] <A-L-P-H-A> that = current.
[02:44:06] <A-L-P-H-A> if you turn on that 'relay' symbol, you're turning on ALL the transistors.
[02:44:19] <A-L-P-H-A> which means it's feeding current to _ALL_ the coils.
[02:44:32] <anonimasu> yes, but the current is limited to what you have the resistor seton..
[02:44:34] <A-L-P-H-A> which would change the position of the stepper.
[02:45:00] <anonimasu> err resistor(trim potentiometer)
[02:45:12] <anonimasu> it wont change the position of you energize all coils..
[02:45:23] <gezr> it would move
[02:45:30] <anonimasu> fo�sunyv�23r2q�0c4
[02:45:32] <A-L-P-H-A> V = IR... 24VDC / 1.2A = 20 ohms. But with like how many watts do I need? P = IR^2 [right?]
[02:45:49] <anonimasu> you limit how much power you put on them via the resistor..
[02:45:52] <gezr> how much and stuff like that would be a factor of the current position
[02:46:04] <anonimasu> the "idle" current..
[02:46:16] <anonimasu> if you energize all coils, the stepper is stiff..
[02:46:31] <gezr> it will jerk into that stiff position
[02:46:33] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, yes. but I also want to not have the coils burn out/melt.
[02:46:39] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, that's what I thought too.
[02:46:43] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, yeah, that's what I thought too.
[02:47:03] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, I don't think you're thing would work.
[02:47:16] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: well, you can do it on each coil.
[02:47:24] <gezr> you will have on coil energized the moment the other 3 come on, at that point, it is unpredictable which direction it will rotate
[02:47:32] <gezr> one
[02:47:47] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, I think my method would be a little better.
[02:48:16] <gezr> the only true way to "break/hold" a motor is to have a break installed,
[02:48:26] <A-L-P-H-A> so that when after a timer overflows, switch off the main current, and switch on the sticker rated Voltage to the motor.
[02:49:05] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, not looking for a BREAK, just looking for a holding current, to just makesure something down's start going backwards.
[02:50:04] <anonimasu> yeah you might be right..
[02:50:23] <gezr> then just a circut to limit the current @ whatever 1 2 3 4 combo you have is enough,
[02:50:25] <A-L-P-H-A> that rated voltage should be at 100% duty cycle.
[02:50:42] <anonimasu> * anonimasu really really hates steppers
[02:50:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll draw it out, ifyou guys want.
[02:50:55] <gezr> steppers suck for the exact stuff
[02:51:06] <anonimasu> I am never putting a stepper on my machine ever again..
[02:51:18] <gezr> you just want to be able to keep the thing in a position, and keep it from burning up
[02:51:29] <anonimasu> just saving up for 3 new servodrives and another servo for my z axis.. and a vital card..
[02:52:27] <paul_c> hey gezr.
[02:52:27] <anonimasu> hm, yeah you need to reduce the current for each axis if you want to do that..
[02:52:30] <anonimasu> like you said..
[02:53:31] <gezr> paul_c : howdy
[02:54:21] <anonimasu> goodnight
[02:54:40] <paul_c> buggerit - nearly 3AM again.
[02:54:44] <anonimasu> yeah..
[02:54:56] <anonimasu> my head stopped working 4 hours ago :/
[02:55:20] <anonimasu> http://www.37signals.com/svn/archives/001064.php
[02:56:04] <asdfqwega> http://lmwatts.com/v-web/b2/ <- Is that a bottle of Tums in the background?
[02:56:21] <asdfqwega> Don't work yourself to death, Les!
[02:56:35] <A-L-P-H-A> got a photo.
[02:56:37] <A-L-P-H-A> posting up now.
[02:56:59] <gezr> tums rule
[02:57:58] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.lloydleung.com/gallery/stepper_driver/
[03:02:34] <gezr> I think emc can directly drive 3 transistor banks, without the need of an ic to determine where to send the pulse, I cant remember though
[03:02:51] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, that's phase driving.
[03:03:09] <A-L-P-H-A> this way, instead of 4 pins of use on a parallel port, I can use 2.
[03:03:20] <A-L-P-H-A> sames me pins on my parallel port.
[03:03:22] <A-L-P-H-A> saves
[03:03:43] <gezr> I was just remembering, cool idea :)
[03:03:59] <A-L-P-H-A> primetive idea, but works ifyou don't need many pins.
[03:04:18] <A-L-P-H-A> that's 12 pins gone, versus 6 if you use a controller.
[04:34:26] <SWP_eating> les: anonimasu: the CAD program - was it CadMAX? I like it (though someone like JMK or Robin_SZ couldn't stand it)
[04:34:32] <SWP_eating> SWP_eating is now known as SWPadnos
[04:42:31] <A-L-P-H-A> hi SWPadnos
[04:52:30] <SWPadnos> Hi there
[04:52:44] <SWPadnos> (sorry - fiddling with motors and the USC
[04:52:45] <SWPadnos> )
[09:15:21] <alex_joni> morning
[09:15:32] <Jymmm> [01:20:15] <alex_joni> morning
[09:15:59] <alex_joni> [11:23] <alex_joni> morning
[09:16:27] <Jymmm> ah
[09:16:30] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is playing with Synergy
[09:16:48] <alex_joni> very nice.. what I've seen so far
[09:16:50] <Jymmm> it's not bad, be careful with it
[09:16:55] <Jymmm> no security
[09:17:06] <alex_joni> what do you mean?
[09:17:30] <Jymmm> if you dont have a secure lan you can get hacked easily
[09:17:44] <alex_joni> I'm behind a firewall
[09:17:51] <alex_joni> does it open any ports?
[09:18:09] <Jymmm> of course silly, how do you think it works =)
[09:18:29] <alex_joni> don't think we're talking about the same Synergy
[09:18:31] <alex_joni> this one's a CAD/CAM package
[09:19:19] <Jymmm> ah... http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/
[09:20:36] <alex_joni> ;)
[09:20:58] <alex_joni> the CAD/CAM package is great
[09:21:01] <alex_joni> 2D/3D
[09:22:12] <Jymmm> $ ?
[09:23:21] <alex_joni> http://www.webersys.com/
[09:46:00] <alex_joni> * alex_joni adds talking to websys later to his todo list
[09:53:26] <alex_joni> wo ist Behle?
[11:00:57] <anonimasu> ?
[11:01:06] <alex_joni> hey an0n
[11:02:06] <anonimasu> good morning
[11:02:16] <anonimasu> how are you doing today?
[11:02:44] <alex_joni> pretty ok
[11:04:11] <anonimasu> did you have any link to some programming examples with nml?
[11:04:30] <alex_joni> let me check
[11:04:48] <anonimasu> the easier the better
[11:04:49] <anonimasu> :)
[11:06:49] <alex_joni> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/NMLcpp.html
[11:08:30] <anonimasu> very nice
[11:08:39] <alex_joni> I can't access isd.mel.nist.gov though...
[11:08:43] <alex_joni> ;)
[11:08:55] <anonimasu> why not?
[11:08:56] <alex_joni> does it work for you?
[11:08:59] <anonimasu> yes
[11:09:07] <alex_joni> if not.. here's a mirror: http://www.angelfire.com/ma/mrao/NMLcpp.html
[11:09:12] <alex_joni> no ideea ;)
[11:09:12] <anonimasu> want me to grab a copy of it for you?
[11:09:17] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is getting up
[11:09:23] <alex_joni> nah.. I have it locally
[11:09:30] <alex_joni> and I've read it a few times
[11:09:35] <anonimasu> or do you hvaeok
[11:10:10] <anonimasu> is the resume function still missing in emc2?
[11:10:36] <alex_joni> resume?
[11:10:46] <anonimasu> yeah when you stop a progam in the middle
[11:10:47] <alex_joni> no ideea,... never used it ;)
[11:11:01] <anonimasu> ok, it dosent seem to work :)
[11:11:01] <alex_joni> :-P
[11:11:18] <alex_joni> you stop? or you pause te program?
[11:11:21] <anonimasu> I am thinking about building a feed override knob
[11:11:27] <alex_joni> because stop means stop
[11:11:31] <anonimasu> esc to abort and then resume the program..
[11:11:37] <alex_joni> and pause lets you resume it later on
[11:11:49] <alex_joni> abort can't be resumed.. afaik
[11:11:52] <anonimasu> ah ok
[11:11:53] <anonimasu> :)
[11:12:13] <alex_joni> that's why it's called abort ;)
[11:13:39] <alex_joni> you know what would be cool?
[11:13:49] <alex_joni> if they could build goggles to see radio waves
[11:14:01] <anonimasu> eah�
[11:14:02] <anonimasu> hehe
[11:15:25] <alex_joni> I'd buy a pair of those
[11:17:00] <anonimasu> hm, I need to patch my laptop with RTAI..
[11:17:05] <anonimasu> so I can compile that stuff on it
[11:17:16] <alex_joni> right ;)
[11:17:19] <anonimasu> and play around without having the machine near me..
[11:17:50] <alex_joni> no network to the machine?
[11:17:57] <anonimasu> not yet
[11:18:02] <anonimasu> maybe on this afternoon
[11:18:04] <anonimasu> :)
[11:19:05] <anonimasu> I need a feed override knob
[11:19:06] <anonimasu> ;)
[11:19:35] <alex_joni> that's already programmed
[11:19:53] <anonimasu> oh, but that dosent really help me learn nml :)
[11:21:18] <alex_joni> feedslider.cc
[11:21:31] <alex_joni> inside emc1/src/emctask/
[11:21:42] <anonimasu> ok
[11:21:49] <anonimasu> I run emc2
[11:21:59] <alex_joni> doesn't matter ;)
[11:22:00] <anonimasu> but I'll have a look at it :)
[11:22:05] <alex_joni> it connects to NML
[11:22:14] <alex_joni> will work with emc2 too
[11:22:20] <anonimasu> I wonder if I could force the PLC's to do nml
[11:22:24] <anonimasu> ;)
[11:23:33] <anonimasu> or if writing somthing to interface with nml would be quicker
[11:24:04] <alex_joni> I think it would be quicker
[11:24:09] <alex_joni> and mroe flexible
[11:24:09] <alex_joni> more
[11:24:28] <anonimasu> probably
[11:26:10] <alex_joni> brb
[11:26:20] <anonimasu> brb going to have a shower and the go out and play with the mill
[11:37:00] <alex_joni> g'morning paul_c
[11:37:09] <alex_joni> or.. good day ;)
[11:40:07] <paul_c> g'day sport.
[11:43:21] <alex_joni> what's up?
[11:43:41] <alex_joni> I finished downloading all the ISO's .. they are now on my site..
[11:44:07] <paul_c> BDI-4.17 is under test
[11:44:10] <alex_joni> I'll do some more work on the download page... I think it's ok for starters
[11:44:12] <alex_joni> cool
[11:46:58] <alex_joni> I started learing a bit about debian..
[11:47:10] <alex_joni> but I still feel more at home on my SuSE...
[11:48:38] <paul_c> I know how you feel...
[11:48:57] <paul_c> I used to like RedHat for a long while.
[11:49:10] <alex_joni> anyways... I gotta go away from SuSE
[11:49:50] <alex_joni> I don't like what Novell makes of it
[11:49:50] <alex_joni> that's why I jumped on the debian train
[11:56:56] <alex_joni> Synergy is great... I gave it a go
[11:58:21] <paul_c> Synergy isn't a Debian only thing - You could use it on almost any computer..
[11:58:34] <alex_joni> well I actually use it on doze
[11:58:45] <alex_joni> websys hooked me up with a package
[12:12:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to grab a bite
[12:12:05] <alex_joni> leter
[12:12:06] <alex_joni> later
[13:27:20] <alex_joni> pretty quiet in here
[13:28:19] <paul_c> * paul_c is finishing off the S526 driver.
[13:34:20] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. Welcome to FOSDEM participants! Please stop by #fosdem .... and if you're at the conference look for OpenDarwin, GNUStep, Wesnoth, openMosix, ubuntu, classpath, KDE, Debian, Gentoo, OpenBSD, LugWV, GNU/kFreeBSD, GNU.nl, and introspector and other participants from around freenode!
[13:35:01] <lilo> [Global Notice] Conference channel for KDE: #KDE-fosdem
[13:35:58] <lilo> [Global Notice] If you've got FOSDEM announcements, please /msg lilo .... and have a great conference!
[13:37:23] <alex_joni> nice...
[13:37:27] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is just wasting time
[13:37:37] <alex_joni> I need to make a new presentation CD
[13:37:47] <alex_joni> and I need to include some webpages for that...
[13:38:05] <alex_joni> but php bugs me... I need to download a complete site
[13:38:24] <alex_joni> that uses php and variables... so I need to download combinations of variables.. and that sux
[13:53:23] <anonimasu> iab
[13:53:36] <alex_joni> hey a0n
[13:53:38] <anonimasu> hey
[13:53:38] <alex_joni> an0n
[13:53:41] <anonimasu> I have net into the shop now
[13:53:45] <alex_joni> cool
[13:53:55] <alex_joni> you can remote control your mill now
[13:53:59] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[13:54:29] <alex_joni> tried running the GUI remotely?
[13:54:34] <anonimasu> no
[13:54:34] <paul_c> * paul_c spots a condition that could cause trouble with some encoder cards....
[13:54:38] <anonimasu> I'll run xwin32
[13:54:40] <anonimasu> it's better..
[13:54:48] <alex_joni> how about ssh -x ?
[13:54:55] <anonimasu> I am on windows..
[13:54:55] <anonimasu> :
[13:54:59] <alex_joni> paul_c: only on S526 ?
[13:55:03] <alex_joni> on windows too
[13:55:10] <alex_joni> putty and Cygwin
[13:55:15] <anonimasu> I dont like cygwin
[13:55:20] <alex_joni> why not?
[13:55:24] <anonimasu> I like xwin32.. it's flawless
[13:55:59] <anonimasu> :)
[13:56:14] <anonimasu> but it dosent seem like I have net there yet
[13:56:30] <anonimasu> ? ( at 00:10:4b:9c:60:7f on rl0 [ethernet]
[13:59:16] <paul_c> alex_joni: The condition could affect many counter cards, not just the S526
[13:59:28] <alex_joni> care to detail?
[13:59:35] <alex_joni> an0n: xwin32 is not free...
[14:00:02] <paul_c> Imagine you have an overflow flag for each counter...
[14:00:35] <paul_c> and the actual count is latched on the read of the first word...
[14:01:05] <alex_joni> right
[14:01:26] <paul_c> what happens if the counter rolls over between the time you latch the data and read the RO flag ?
[14:01:28] <alex_joni> so as you latch, the overflow gets set
[14:01:56] <alex_joni> doesn't the RO flag get latched along with the counter?
[14:02:07] <alex_joni> would seem a sensible thing to do...
[14:02:10] <paul_c> Not that I can see.
[14:02:17] <alex_joni> bugger
[14:02:41] <paul_c> Would imagine it would be the same for 7166 based cards too.
[14:03:20] <alex_joni> don't think they have an RO flag
[14:03:31] <alex_joni> err..they have one.. but don't think it gets read
[14:04:42] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I know
[14:04:58] <alex_joni> well. then you can't compare it to Cygwin/X
[14:05:01] <anonimasu> brb.
[14:14:16] <websys2> alex - were you looking for me?
[14:15:39] <alex_joni> hey websys...
[14:15:43] <alex_joni> yes...
[14:15:48] <alex_joni> got my mail?
[14:15:52] <websys2> Just saw your email
[14:16:11] <alex_joni> was that supposed to happen?
[14:16:27] <websys2> no - don't know where it went wrong
[14:16:47] <alex_joni> could I help debug?
[14:17:23] <websys2> I'm trying to get a new code but I'm not at the office right now - trying to do it remotely
[14:19:38] <anonimasu> iab
[14:19:40] <anonimasu> it works now
[14:19:47] <anonimasu> I switched 2 cables in the TP
[14:20:18] <alex_joni> right
[14:20:48] <anonimasu> now I need a name for it..
[14:22:14] <alex_joni> call it Draal
[14:22:18] <anonimasu> haha
[14:22:23] <anonimasu> my main box is sentinel
[14:23:32] <anonimasu> I'll name it when I am tired.. that makes for a interesting name
[14:25:36] <anonimasu> :)
[14:27:05] <paul_c> agentSmith
[14:27:16] <anonimasu> what's a good plunge speed when milling plastics that burns easily?
[14:27:26] <anonimasu> err feed..
[14:27:40] <anonimasu> maybe 5mm/min
[14:27:42] <alex_joni> 290cm/min
[14:27:42] <anonimasu> err 50
[14:27:45] <anonimasu> or more..
[14:28:08] <alex_joni> you need to be done before it starts to gain temperature
[14:28:09] <alex_joni> lol
[14:28:24] <anonimasu> alex_joni: 290cm min ;)
[14:28:25] <anonimasu> lol
[14:28:39] <anonimasu> 150 it is..
[14:29:13] <anonimasu> I have no data for this plastic since it's scrap..
[14:29:27] <alex_joni> maybe higher ,)
[14:31:14] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[14:32:23] <anonimasu> I cut at 500mm/min and it dosent heat up too much
[14:32:46] <alex_joni> I was talking cm ;)
[14:34:07] <anonimasu> my machine dosent do that speed yt
[14:34:10] <anonimasu> yet ;)
[14:34:19] <anonimasu> my next machine will.
[14:34:22] <anonimasu> *grins*
[14:34:47] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I am starting to gain bad habits.. I'll never be able to buy a new car, if this keeps up
[14:35:13] <alex_joni> lol
[14:35:22] <anonimasu> large-ish mill + robot to go with it..
[14:36:15] <alex_joni> right
[14:36:26] <alex_joni> and a robette to go with the robot
[14:37:32] <anonimasu> hehe
[14:37:46] <anonimasu> anyway I'll be test milling this part :)
[14:43:21] <alex_joni> paul_c: did you hear that Zathras died?
[14:58:53] <paul_c> Zathras is still alive, just being very quiet at the moment.
[14:59:11] <paul_c> or do you mean the actor ?
[15:01:34] <alex_joni> yes.. the actor
[15:11:19] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): DIO routines done - Also use the watchdog timer that gets a kick each time the DACs are written. The relay o/p should be part of the safety system when the 526 card is used.
[15:39:19] <gezr> morning ya'll
[15:39:39] <SWPadnos> morning
[15:40:01] <alex_joni> hello
[15:52:57] <alex_joni> hey SWPadnos
[15:53:05] <SWPadnos> hey there
[15:53:13] <alex_joni> how's life?
[15:53:23] <SWPadnos> morning, pre-caffeiene :)
[15:53:33] <alex_joni> right
[15:53:36] <alex_joni> :)
[15:53:50] <SWPadnos> It's funny - I had never used IRC before a couple of weeks ago (for EMC)
[15:53:58] <SWPadnos> I think it's saving me money
[15:54:03] <alex_joni> IRC?
[15:54:05] <SWPadnos> less time for eBay :)
[15:54:09] <alex_joni> lol
[15:54:23] <SWPadnos> I'm looking for a Tapmatic 70x or similar tapper
[15:55:01] <SWPadnos> They're pretty expensive for me
[15:56:03] <alex_joni> hmmm ;)
[15:56:11] <alex_joni> anybody used /etc/issue ?
[15:56:22] <SWPadnos> not me
[15:56:42] <paul_c> for ?
[15:57:06] <gezr> issue I dont think can be changed, its created at boot, Im not sure, cause I cant remember
[15:57:20] <alex_joni> custom logon screen
[15:57:37] <paul_c> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/stable/postlfs/logon.html
[15:57:46] <alex_joni> thx.. reading it now
[15:59:10] <anonimasu> hm..
[15:59:13] <anonimasu> it worked nicely..
[15:59:18] <anonimasu> although emc does loose it's position.
[15:59:31] <alex_joni> good thing robin ain't around
[15:59:32] <anonimasu> after it's ran a program somtimes..
[15:59:38] <alex_joni> he would have slapped you silly
[15:59:45] <anonimasu> me?
[15:59:52] <alex_joni> till you loose your senses :D
[16:00:32] <anonimasu> the part came out nicely although the surface finish sucked..
[16:00:42] <alex_joni> hmm.. bummer
[16:00:46] <anonimasu> might have been because I took a 2cm cut at 500mm/min
[16:00:59] <alex_joni> when do you see that emc loses it's position?
[16:01:06] <anonimasu> after the program is completed..
[16:01:17] <SWPadnos> I'll be right back - I recently reinstalled Mozilla, and I need to restart for the extensions to come back.
[16:01:18] <anonimasu> and I go back to 0,0,0 manually
[16:01:23] <alex_joni> do you have a G0X0Y0Z0?
[16:01:35] <anonimasu> they move..
[16:01:39] <anonimasu> after the program is completed..
[16:01:53] <anonimasu> I coded a program for facing my part.. and after it was finished it lost its position.
[16:02:02] <anonimasu> after m30
[16:03:37] <anonimasu> z-5
[16:03:41] <anonimasu> g90
[16:03:41] <anonimasu> m30
[16:03:57] <anonimasu> after that it put z to 50
[16:04:02] <alex_joni> what's G90?
[16:04:13] <anonimasu> absolute mode..
[16:04:19] <anonimasu> g91 is incremental
[16:04:56] <alex_joni> try G92.2
[16:05:06] <anonimasu> what does that do?
[16:05:22] <alex_joni> cancel offset coordinate systems
[16:05:29] <anonimasu> ah I should..
[16:05:34] <anonimasu> but it shouldnt enable itself..
[16:05:34] <anonimasu> :)
[16:05:41] <alex_joni> right
[16:05:48] <alex_joni> an0n: did you post your nc file?
[16:05:52] <alex_joni> somewhere?
[16:06:04] <anonimasu> alex_joni: it didnt do the same thing the second thing I ran it..
[16:06:06] <anonimasu> time..
[16:06:16] <alex_joni> hmmm...
[16:06:31] <anonimasu> mauybe I should grab a newer cvs version of emc..
[16:06:33] <anonimasu> emc2..
[16:06:39] <anonimasu> and see if it happens again..
[16:07:03] <alex_joni> your emc2 ain't older than a few months...
[16:07:09] <alex_joni> so it shouldn't do that
[16:07:29] <anonimasu> its from last week..
[16:07:46] <alex_joni> no one touched emc2 deepdown code in some months now
[16:09:01] <paul_c> not in the main trunk, anyway...
[16:09:14] <paul_c> Some heavy work going on in a branch ;)
[16:09:27] <anonimasu> hehe
[16:09:29] <SWPadnos> paul_c: is there supposed to be a ppmcio driver for non-RT I/O with the USC?
[16:09:36] <alex_joni> right.. but that's emc1
[16:09:40] <alex_joni> so it doesn't count
[16:10:45] <paul_c> SWPadnos: Probably, but there are better ways of implimenting one than the route Jon took.
[16:10:50] <anonimasu> I should look what it says in the debug when it happens
[16:11:13] <SWPadnos> I'm just wondering how to get a "machine on" output from his card.
[16:11:47] <SWPadnos> I've got the output index set, but I don't think my I/O is getting to his driver (bridgeportio shouldn't wiork)
[16:13:31] <paul_c> You are correct, bridgeportio won't work.
[16:13:53] <SWPadnos> I noticed that there are ppmc object files in the bdi-4 build, but there's no final ppmcio driver
[16:14:20] <SWPadnos> (or at least, nothing marked executable)
[16:14:51] <paul_c> if it ins't in plat/realtime/bin it isn't an exe
[16:14:59] <SWPadnos> right.
[16:15:24] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[16:15:27] <alex_joni> maybe it's a .com ?
[16:15:34] <SWPadnos> .bat
[16:15:40] <alex_joni> if it's not an .exe
[16:15:53] <paul_c> .brick
[16:17:23] <anonimasu> I wonder what I should do now..
[16:17:42] <SWPadnos> there are several ppmcmod* in the src directory
[16:18:03] <alex_joni> cat them ;)
[16:18:15] <alex_joni> cat ppmcmod* > ppmc.brick
[16:18:21] <anonimasu> mill somthing more perhaps..
[16:18:23] <alex_joni> chmod +x ppmc.brick
[16:18:29] <alex_joni> and run away
[16:18:43] <SWPadnos> well - since ppmcmod.ko has no elf header, I don't think it'll run :)
[16:19:06] <alex_joni> insmod it
[16:19:22] <SWPadnos> maybe I will ;)
[16:19:25] <alex_joni> if it's .ko it should be a kernel module
[16:20:02] <SWPadnos> true - should be - has unknown symbols
[16:20:13] <SWPadnos> I probably need some other modules loaded first
[16:24:25] <alex_joni> paul_c: seen Mariss' latest mail announcing G2003?
[16:25:30] <SWPadnos> alex_joni: Woohoo! I saw that this morning
[16:25:54] <alex_joni> yeah.. we should start an EMC driver for it ;)
[16:27:32] <narnia> knock, knock, anyone home?
[16:27:40] <SWPadnos> Who's there?
[16:28:05] <alex_joni> hello terry
[16:28:16] <narnia> SWPadnos, hello, would you happen to know what the status of step-nc is in emc/emc2?
[16:28:27] <SWPadnos> nope :)
[16:28:41] <SWPadnos> (I'm not even sure I know what it is :) )
[16:28:45] <alex_joni> narnia: afaik there is no step-nc support in emc/emc2
[16:28:51] <narnia> SWPadnos, would you happen to know who may know?
[16:28:59] <alex_joni> iirc it's a modernized version of gcode
[16:29:27] <narnia> alex_joni, yes, sort of.
[16:29:34] <danfalck> terry, did you
[16:29:42] <danfalck> get any reply about BRLcad
[16:29:46] <danfalck> from Fred?
[16:30:18] <narnia> danfalck, hello, long time no read. how goes it?
[16:30:43] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: it's an nc-file in a different dialect than gcode (defined after gcode, has a lot of improvements, more standardisation, etc)
[16:30:47] <narnia> danfalck, i have not heard back from fred.
[16:30:48] <danfalck> good. Things are starting to look good here. The weather's nice
[16:31:26] <danfalck> narnia: would you like to do some CAD/CAM chat over on #sagcad?
[16:32:09] <narnia> danfalck, what does #sagcad cover?
[16:32:25] <danfalck> nothing much, just a placeholder that we created.
[16:32:50] <SWPadnos> right -STEP - there was some discussion of adding STEP output to synergy or brl-cad recently;
[16:34:04] <narnia> hang on i need to reboot this computer. was running some java code last night and now the computer is really slow. brb
[16:34:40] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: http://www.step-nc.org/
[16:34:46] <paul_c> rm f `locate *java*`
[16:35:05] <alex_joni> lol
[16:37:11] <danfalck> is step open source?
[16:38:27] <alex_joni> it's an ISO-standard
[16:38:43] <alex_joni> don't think it's open source
[16:42:13] <narnia> okay, that is much better.
[16:42:55] <alex_joni> did you follow paul_c's advice? ;-)
[16:43:40] <narnia> alex_joni, who are you asking?
[16:44:14] <alex_joni> narnia: paul_c made a joke (but I think it was after you left): <paul_c> rm f `locate *java*`
[16:44:44] <narnia> alex_joni, good advice.
[16:45:11] <SWPadnos> that would be a little drastic
[16:45:16] <alex_joni> narnia, sometimes it's a necessary evil ;) (java that is)
[16:45:22] <SWPadnos> you'd get rid of photos of the java coast
[16:45:29] <SWPadnos> and all those coffee-related files :)
[16:45:45] <alex_joni> SWP: you still have such files?
[16:45:59] <SWPadnos> well - no, but it could suck for someone who does :)
[16:46:13] <SWPadnos> (I'd hate to think of coffee-related files being deleted :) )
[16:46:21] <alex_joni> narnia: is there an downloadable version of the step-nc standard?
[16:46:43] <alex_joni> SWP: I don't drink coffee.. so I couldn't care less ;)
[16:47:01] <SWPadnos> heathen :)
[16:47:25] <SWPadnos> Programmer: n.: "A machine which converts caffeiene to code"
[16:47:58] <alex_joni> * alex_joni grabs a byte..
[16:50:42] <paul_c> Yay... Got space on the CD for the remaining tools and libs to compile the bdi-4 branch.
[16:50:56] <SWPadnos> cool. what had to go?
[16:51:12] <paul_c> nothing.
[16:51:18] <alex_joni> samba-doc ;)
[16:51:19] <SWPadnos> even better :)
[16:51:53] <paul_c> and it still fits on to a 74min disk (at least I hope it does..)
[16:52:44] <paul_c> However, there is no way I can sqeeze the extra libs in to compile axis.
[16:53:03] <alex_joni> how about an 90 min disk?
[16:53:33] <paul_c> just remember where this CD ends up - Not all users are in Europe or USA.
[16:54:00] <alex_joni> and 90min cds are not available outside US & Europe?
[16:54:03] <paul_c> some places, even a 74min disk costs a day's wage.
[16:54:13] <alex_joni> really???
[16:54:24] <alex_joni> over here it's cheaper than a floppy
[16:54:33] <anonimasu> strange..
[16:54:55] <paul_c> do you have any idea how many users there are in south Asia ?
[16:55:09] <SWPadnos> billions
[16:55:23] <paul_c> and how many use EMC
[16:55:32] <SWPadnos> at least 274 :)
[16:55:46] <alex_joni> no ideea.. I give up
[16:55:55] <paul_c> and the average wage of all 274 would be ?
[16:56:03] <alex_joni> 2,10 ;)
[16:56:10] <SWPadnos> total of about $1.98 / week :(
[16:56:31] <gezr> it would probably be rather high, those in asia who have things such as computers probably have a good income
[16:56:33] <anonimasu> hm..
[16:56:42] <anonimasu> I dont think thoose people have computes
[16:56:50] <alex_joni> don't forget net access for downloading the iso
[16:56:51] <gezr> high compared to say a farmer
[16:56:54] <anonimasu> computers able to run kde.. let alone emc..
[16:56:58] <alex_joni> you can't do that on a dialup
[16:57:29] <alex_joni> but hey.. I agree with you paul (given these constraints, it's best to keep it under 74 min)
[16:57:32] <paul_c> even a high earner in India probably grosses less than $5,000 p.a.
[16:58:06] <gezr> paul_c : yeah, I dont konw what is considered middle class over there.
[16:58:28] <gezr> they have that cast system in place still pretty much dont they?
[16:58:33] <paul_c> anyone on more than $2,000 p.a.
[16:58:58] <anonimasu> yes
[16:59:00] <anonimasu> they do
[16:59:10] <gezr> how much does that compare to a brittish pound?
[16:59:14] <gezr> or the euro?
[16:59:18] <alex_joni> well.. medium wage is about 2-300 in romania
[16:59:20] <anonimasu> btw, there are hardly any internet in india..
[16:59:22] <alex_joni> per month
[16:59:32] <anonimasu> in the high tech district yes..
[16:59:36] <alex_joni> euro that is
[16:59:37] <anonimasu> but in the other parts of the country no..
[16:59:40] <paul_c> $1 ~= �1
[16:59:43] <paul_c> $1 ~= �2
[16:59:49] <paul_c> fskit...
[16:59:55] <paul_c> $2 ~= �1
[17:00:04] <paul_c> Got it right in the end..
[17:00:05] <alex_joni> right
[17:00:14] <alex_joni> 1.5 euro = 1 quid
[17:00:32] <paul_c> coo... as much as that ?
[17:01:13] <alex_joni> about 55000 lei = 1 quid ;)
[17:01:23] <alex_joni> that's out official currency
[17:01:26] <alex_joni> our
[17:04:12] <alex_joni> anyone got an ideea where mysql stores passwords?
[17:07:45] <gezr> in a db
[17:08:04] <gezr> I think, I cant remember, I used to use phpmyadmin to set stuff up
[17:08:21] <alex_joni> right.. thx
[17:09:36] <gezr> im not trying to be a smartarsh, I really think that it uses a db to keep "its" info in
[17:09:49] <alex_joni> right .. thx ;)
[17:10:01] <alex_joni> I found it.. (it was really a ty)
[17:10:02] <Imperator_> Hi all
[17:10:08] <alex_joni> Hey Martin
[17:10:17] <Imperator_> what's up ?
[17:10:21] <gezr> Imperator_ : howdy
[17:11:17] <alex_joni> Imperator_: how's the mill coming along?
[17:11:28] <Imperator_> �hh
[17:11:41] <alex_joni> ;)
[17:11:41] <Imperator_> it's still vituell
[17:12:06] <Imperator_> virtual
[17:12:32] <Imperator_> and yours ?
[17:12:45] <alex_joni> pre-virtual
[17:12:52] <Imperator_> :-)
[17:13:04] <alex_joni> not even a virtual fetus yet
[17:13:14] <Imperator_> yesturday we repaired our Digma
[17:13:55] <Imperator_> it damaged it's metall cover of the linear bearings
[17:14:03] <anonimasu> /win 10
[17:15:06] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ thinks on drawing "the big picture of EMC2"
[17:15:36] <Imperator_> a lot of Alex's around :-)
[17:15:55] <alex_joni_> Imperator_: got a big board?
[17:16:37] <Imperator_> no I want to draw a big poster that shows all components of EMC2 and the data flow
[17:17:05] <Imperator_> maybe it has also to show the functions
[17:17:22] <Imperator_> and structs
[17:18:31] <alex_joni_> right ;)
[17:20:18] <Imperator_> the first problem is to find a good software for drawing
[17:23:22] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[17:27:18] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/drivers/realtimeio.c: The start of an IO controller that uses the realtime code & hardware (for example, the Vital card).
[17:28:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has to see that
[17:28:27] <anonimasu> :)
[17:29:03] <paul_c> missing loads of headers, so it won't compile.
[17:29:15] <alex_joni> just wanna see it ;)
[17:29:30] <paul_c> * paul_c hides some of the interesting stuff.
[17:31:58] <alex_joni> not on the viewcvs yet
[17:35:06] <anonimasu> hm..
[17:35:13] <anonimasu> I shoud re-run this program..
[17:35:20] <anonimasu> to see if I get better finish on the part..
[17:38:57] <anonimasu> maybe a finish pass..
[17:41:14] <Imperator_> hm, got only the new folders out of the CVS no files ?
[17:41:19] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/drivers/realtimeio.c: DAC routine added.
[17:41:53] <Imperator_> Ah ok
[17:42:02] <paul_c> cvs up -dPr bdi-4 emc2
[17:42:24] <Imperator_> jep, thx Paul
[17:46:58] <anonimasu> if it turns out ok I'll bring some pics :)
[17:49:45] <paul_c> SWPadnos: Did you see realtimeio.c ?
[17:53:42] <Imperator_> paul_c: I have it
[17:54:08] <Imperator_> haven't seen that branch before and don't understand what is it for ???
[17:54:11] <paul_c> see how easy it is ?
[17:54:20] <anonimasu> hehe
[17:54:53] <alex_joni> Imperator_: that's the sources for the latest BDI
[17:55:02] <alex_joni> compileable for 2.6-kernels
[17:55:02] <paul_c> Imperator_: It is a merge of EMC1 with libnml so that I can compile it for 2.6 kernels.
[17:55:35] <Imperator_> I think i can unterstand that file
[17:55:46] <Imperator_> but why is it in the emc2 tree ?
[17:55:55] <alex_joni> because of libnml
[17:56:14] <Imperator_> ok
[17:56:16] <alex_joni> and because the dir structure resembles emc2 more than emc1
[17:56:20] <paul_c> partly because of libnml
[17:56:55] <paul_c> and also because it draws a clear line under what is GPL code.
[17:57:35] <Imperator_> why are you doing so much development for emc1 Paul ?
[17:57:50] <alex_joni> Imperator_: you don't wanna go there ;)
[17:57:54] <Imperator_> I thought the programming power goes to EMC2
[17:58:19] <Imperator_> how do you mean that Alex
[17:58:48] <alex_joni> well.. one big advantage EMC2 has is also it's biggest disadvantage
[17:59:00] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders if Imperator_ gets the hint
[17:59:51] <Imperator_> I don't get it :-(
[18:00:07] <alex_joni> well.. ;)
[18:00:10] <paul_c> It's no secret
[18:00:47] <alex_joni> then spill it out
[18:01:00] <paul_c> I see much of the direction that HAL is going as flawed, and can not find the incentive to do anything about it.
[18:01:37] <paul_c> Also, the changes in variable names (just for the hell of it) has invalidated most of my notes.
[18:01:55] <alex_joni> now.. if you brought it up ;) .. care to talk about it? or do we drop the subject?
[18:02:13] <paul_c> I neither have the time nor inclination to go through fixing one or the other.
[18:02:41] <paul_c> so I choose to follow my own path.
[18:02:58] <alex_joni> I agree with your point..
[18:03:02] <Imperator_> Hmmm
[18:03:21] <alex_joni> but if you share your ideeas maybe others (me included) could bring it in the right direction ?
[18:03:40] <paul_c> see the bdi-4 branch.
[18:03:50] <alex_joni> I am looking at it now
[18:03:57] <alex_joni> anything specific?
[18:06:41] <Imperator_> I agree with ALex, it's not realy good if one of teh main developer don't agree with the direction emc2 goes
[18:08:15] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs deeply
[18:08:24] <anonimasu> agreed that's bad..
[18:08:28] <alex_joni> what's up an0n?
[18:08:34] <alex_joni> bad finishing pass?
[18:08:43] <anonimasu> alex_joni: havent tried it yet playing around with the cam program..
[18:10:48] <anonimasu> in maybe 10 minutes I'll machine it..
[18:10:56] <anonimasu> making multiple passes now instead of a single one..
[18:11:02] <anonimasu> with full depth..
[18:13:49] <Imperator_> paul_c: that drivers Dir is now also in the main emc2 branch visible without files
[18:17:21] <paul_c> * paul_c checks
[18:18:02] <paul_c> OK... One downside to cvs
[18:18:17] <paul_c> just update with the -P flag.
[18:20:44] <Imperator_> ok
[18:21:05] <paul_c> * paul_c � Food
[18:21:52] <Jymmm> paul_c � Food � 350 degree oven for 45 minutes (tough meat)
[18:22:25] <Imperator_> bahhh :-)
[18:22:27] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:22:29] <alex_joni> I'd go with less heat, but longer time
[18:22:37] <alex_joni> makes it softer
[18:22:52] <Jymmm> paul_c � Food � fire pit for 12 hours ?
[18:23:03] <Jymmm> (underground)
[18:23:36] <alex_joni> somebody's gonna get kicked ... ;)
[18:24:12] <alex_joni> hotan ekshannudje empsoi ebol hempekbal tote knanay ebol enudje empdje ebol hempbal empekcon
[18:25:41] <Jymmm> what alex_joni said
[18:25:59] <alex_joni> 100 points for the one who knows what that means
[18:26:26] <Imperator_> :-)
[18:26:31] <Jymmm> 500 points for the one who cares what that means!
[18:26:36] <Imperator_> something to eat
[18:26:38] <SWPadnos> "You're pissing me off, so cut it out before I come over and slap you"?
[18:26:45] <alex_joni> nope
[18:26:57] <SWPadnos> Oh, well - no prize for me :)
[18:27:13] <Imperator_> suggest to switch to german
[18:27:24] <alex_joni> to make it a bit easier: it's actually the phonetic transcription of the original
[18:27:29] <alex_joni> to be easier to read
[18:28:18] <Imperator_> Hm, ich war zwar mal ein paar Tage in Rum�nien, aber ich kann noch nichtmal "Bitte" und "Danke sagen
[18:28:27] <anonimasu> :D
[18:30:03] <anonimasu> bbiab dinner time
[18:30:05] <alex_joni> hotan ekshannoudje mpsoei ebol hmpekbal tote knanau ebol enoudje mpdje ebol hmpbal mpekson
[18:30:16] <alex_joni> that's it ;)
[18:31:08] <alex_joni> little hint: it's in coptic ...
[18:32:53] <Jymmm> anyone know the characteristics of a CO2 -vs- YAG laser?
[18:33:01] <alex_joni> like?
[18:33:05] <alex_joni> cutting power?
[18:33:46] <alex_joni> iirc YAG is more powerfull than CO2
[18:34:02] <Jymmm> Since I'm not cutting metals, I know a C)2 is more general purpose, but I heard certain lasers won't do so well on certain materials
[18:34:40] <Jymmm> UV laser will do anything, but I'm not sure about YAG's
[18:35:23] <alex_joni> ticooun an (don't know)
[18:39:04] <SWPadnos> YAG is near infrared, and isn't absorbed by a lot of metals, I think
[18:39:57] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders what axis comping does
[18:40:14] <SWPadnos> it comps the axes, of course :)
[18:40:22] <alex_joni> ohh.. silly me
[18:40:26] <alex_joni> how did I miss that
[18:40:36] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos wonders :)
[18:41:13] <alex_joni> oresh
[18:41:25] <alex_joni> = cool ;)
[19:10:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni leaves for a while
[19:42:56] <SWPadnos> talking about making RT I/O configurable
[19:43:22] <SWPadnos> WRT aggregation and separation of bits, I was thinking of parallel ports, where the bits aren't contiguous physically (address-wise), but should be logically (to the program)
[19:43:40] <paul_c> [19:39:14] [SWPadnos] It's pretty easy to make the RT I/O mappable, is there any desire for that in EMC1 (or should it just wait for EMC2)?
[19:43:41] <paul_c> [19:40:28] >paul_c< It is easy to make some of the RT IO mappable....
[19:43:42] <paul_c> [19:40:46] >paul_c< and I have a desire to make it work in the bdi-4 branch
[19:43:42] <paul_c> [19:40:48] [SWPadnos] well - it depends on how the physical bits are separated / aggregated
[19:43:43] <paul_c> [19:41:43] >paul_c< very few IO ports use bit addressing, so you either have to work on 8,16, or 32 bit wide ports.
[19:44:44] <SWPadnos> If we define a max number of I/Os (like 32 in, 32 out), then the higher level code just asks for a bit to be turned on or off
[19:44:57] <SWPadnos> either by function (SPINDLE_FWD) or index number (0-31)
[19:45:23] <SWPadnos> it's ideal to make it by function, since the number of functions will be limited, and that allows for multiple bits per function
[19:45:25] <paul_c> That is hw the code is currently written
[19:45:59] <SWPadnos> OK - there's no reason that the INI code can't make a mask, and have the RT code use that mask instead of a compile-time constant
[19:46:21] <SWPadnos> it only adds a single memory access, so the time impact shuold be pretty low
[19:46:35] <paul_c> one sec...
[19:46:58] <paul_c> SPINDLE_FWD is given an INDEX in the ini file...
[19:47:08] <SWPadnos> (I'm looking at univstep / ppmc modules, so things may be different elsewhere in RT-land)
[19:47:30] <paul_c> right - That is driver level code.
[19:47:45] <SWPadnos> right - I can think of instances where it would be good to have multiple bits assigned to a single function
[19:48:05] <SWPadnos> well - the driver doesn't have to hard-code those things either
[19:48:16] <paul_c> When the higher level code calls a spindle_on, it already knows the INDEX to write to (from the ini file)
[19:48:33] <SWPadnos> that's fine (ignoring the multiple-bit scenario)
[19:49:25] <paul_c> the low level code presents the higher level with a flat bit map (e.g. INDEX 0 to 100)
[19:50:01] <SWPadnos> just looking at the "ppmcMinLimSwitchRead" function (in ppmc_dio.c), all of the limit switch indices are hard-coded.
[19:50:32] <SWPadnos> these could be an array of bitmasks, which would eliminate the switch statement
[19:50:49] <SWPadnos> initialization routines would haveto build bitmask tables
[19:50:51] <paul_c> yes. As are all the RT IO pins in the low level code for all the drivers.
[19:51:13] <SWPadnos> they only need to be for hardware that has hardware in specific configurations
[19:51:30] <SWPadnos> there's no particular need to connect a step/dir output to specific parallel port pins, though
[19:51:49] <SWPadnos> since they're interchangeable
[19:51:52] <SWPadnos> (logically)
[19:52:29] <paul_c> up to a point - But it is probably best to ignore step/dir outputs for the moment.
[19:52:34] <SWPadnos> also - for testing purposes (or to work around a fried parport pin), it might be nice to be able to define the X asis step/dir outputs ad bit12/13
[19:52:50] <SWPadnos> sure - that's the most time-critical code, so might want to stay hard-coded
[19:53:35] <paul_c> there is a reason why you wouldn't want step_x on port A and dir_x on port B
[19:54:04] <SWPadnos> (I'm lkooking in motion/emcstepper for step generation stuff - is this the right place to look?)
[19:54:33] <paul_c> typically (for the ISA bus) each IO write takes ~1 to 2�Sec
[19:54:49] <SWPadnos> right - you want to minimize the total number of writes.
[19:55:41] <paul_c> and you certainly do not want dir being delayed - Subject to the timing requirements of the drive electronics.
[19:55:45] <SWPadnos> though a word write (which is only applicable sometimes) still takes 1-2 uSec, but allows the CPU to keep on churning while it's happening
[19:55:59] <SWPadnos> (timing of hi/lo bytes is hardware-dependent)
[19:56:13] <paul_c> Ah, but an outw writes 16 bits in one go.
[19:56:52] <paul_c> 'cept when addressing an 8bit port.
[19:56:54] <SWPadnos> depends on the hardware - 8-bit hardware will take the write, but it's physically two byte writes on the bus (I think - it's been a while)
[19:57:09] <SWPadnos> uh-oh
[19:57:21] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos hears the wife calling
[19:57:29] <paul_c> quick, hide.
[19:57:42] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos is running - too bad this isn't a laptop :)
[19:58:06] <SWPadnos> maybe we can continue this tomorrow during the regular dev meetings
[19:58:31] <SWPadnos> I'll look through the code a bit more, to familiarize myself with the layout
[19:58:31] <paul_c> maybe - Did you want to commit any changes before you get dragged away ?
[19:59:14] <SWPadnos> not really - the only thing I did was fix a missing 'int' in the in rtDioRead function declaration
[19:59:32] <SWPadnos> (need int *value, the int was missing)
[19:59:55] <SWPadnos> and I added a useless function, since the EMCMOT* commands don't provide an analog input function
[19:59:58] <paul_c> well, it was only a rough hack to show you how it might be done - I didn't say the code was perfect.
[20:00:03] <SWPadnos> of course :)
[20:00:22] <SWPadnos> I then got bogged down in univsetp_dio.c
[20:00:25] <paul_c> EMCMOT_ can be made to provide an ADC read func.
[20:00:31] <SWPadnos> that would be good.
[20:00:35] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos is running now :)
[20:00:57] <paul_c> 'cept nothing would use it (at present)
[20:01:54] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as swp_awaywithwife
[20:02:21] <paul_c> lucy Mrs SWpadnos
[20:02:30] <paul_c> lucky Mrs SWpadnos even.
[20:19:15] <paul_c> * paul_c test installs BDI-4.17
[20:24:31] <birdmun> ok so i have searched a bit in the archives at sourceforge but i have as yet to find the default root password on the BDI Live install
[20:27:32] <paul_c> You installed to disk ?
[20:27:40] <paul_c> or running from CD ?
[20:29:00] <birdmun> cd
[20:29:29] <paul_c> In that case, there is no root passwd
[20:29:55] <birdmun> i couldnt convince morphix of that
[20:30:19] <birdmun> if i just hit enter it said invalid and said try again
[20:30:30] <birdmun> or something along those lines
[20:31:03] <paul_c> open a console and type:
[20:31:06] <paul_c> sudo passwd
[20:31:37] <paul_c> then enter your own root password.
[20:32:45] <birdmun> that seems kinda crazy ... but hey what do i know :) im the one askin for help
[20:33:02] <birdmun> hopefully it will boot on this old laptop i have
[20:33:22] <paul_c> How uch memory does it have ?
[20:33:29] <paul_c> ^m
[20:33:41] <birdmun> 128
[20:33:55] <paul_c> Live_rc46 ?
[20:33:59] <birdmun> yes
[20:34:17] <birdmun> all im hopin to do is to see if it will work
[20:34:17] <paul_c> Don't think it will.... I usually recommend 256M
[20:34:26] <birdmun> understandable
[20:34:46] <birdmun> it was sluggish on this sys ... 2Gig w/ 1Gb of ram
[20:34:56] <paul_c> I'll try to get BDI-Lite back up on a server...
[20:35:48] <birdmun> umm ... ok ??
[20:35:53] <birdmun> * birdmun is confused
[20:36:24] <birdmun> i have a linux partition on this system even but thats about the extent of it :|
[20:36:27] <paul_c> BDI-Lite is (was) a slimmed down version of BDI-Live
[20:36:39] <paul_c> that will boot with 128M memory.
[20:36:56] <birdmun> so far so good on the laptop
[20:37:39] <birdmun> like i said im not even believing i can do anything w/ it on the laptop just want to see about accessing the hdd
[20:38:47] <paul_c> do a "mem" to see how much memory is free
[20:38:53] <birdmun> kde is starting
[20:39:14] <birdmun> slowly :)
[20:39:35] <paul_c> give it a day or two.
[20:39:49] <birdmun> lol
[20:40:19] <birdmun> so you had a vacation sometime back?
[20:40:27] <birdmun> or was it business?
[20:40:38] <paul_c> been back a week.
[20:41:11] <birdmun> ic
[20:41:58] <birdmun> kinda strange ... the KDE splash was up and the icons were becoming colored and then after the second icon the splash went away
[20:42:00] <paul_c> catching up on the backlog of commits & emails.
[20:42:11] <birdmun> ic
[20:42:22] <birdmun> im sure there is a mountain
[21:00:16] <birdmun> i have to believe it would be faster for me to reboot this system twice than to wait on that system once
[21:01:09] <birdmun> if i fail to get it to work i will return :) if it does work then many thanks to you paul_c
[21:02:45] <paul_c> Yo Ray.
[21:02:56] <rayh> HI Paul.
[21:04:01] <rayh> Get that driver going?
[21:04:40] <paul_c> For the Sensoray ?
[21:04:53] <rayh> Yep.
[21:05:47] <paul_c> The encoder inputs work, it outputs a voltage....
[21:06:06] <paul_c> Adn the DIO inputs/ouputs should work.
[21:06:51] <paul_c> Apart from analogue input functions, the driver is now in "testing" mode.
[21:07:51] <paul_c> Also have some BDI news for you.....
[21:10:20] <rayh> What is going on with BDI?
[21:11:23] <paul_c> All the tools & libs for compiling the bdi-4 branch are now included on the CD
[21:12:18] <paul_c> * paul_c wonders where tr is
[21:13:24] <rayh> tr?
[21:13:43] <paul_c> adsluser-2725.adsl.ttnet.net.tr
[21:13:55] <rayh> ah. I used to know that.
[21:15:27] <paul_c> Turky
[21:16:33] <rayh> Yep.
[21:16:49] <ChaRizMa> ben var turk
[21:17:33] <ChaRizMa> ja ja I m turk
[21:18:04] <rayh> You using emc?
[21:18:22] <ChaRizMa> no english
[21:18:26] <ChaRizMa> speak turk�shg ?
[21:19:12] <paul_c> Sorry, English, a little German, and American.
[21:19:40] <MagicaL> Sa
[21:19:44] <ChaRizMa> a.s
[21:19:46] <ChaRizMa> MagicaL
[21:19:48] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:19:50] <MagicaL> :))
[21:19:52] <MagicaL> kanky naber
[21:19:52] <ChaRizMa> naber can�m
[21:19:57] <ChaRizMa> ii senden naber
[21:20:03] <MagicaL> iydir yafru
[21:20:09] <MagicaL> bizim saflar buradam�:))
[21:20:10] <ChaRizMa> bunlar benim europa l� arkadaslar�m
[21:20:15] <ChaRizMa> hepsinin
[21:20:17] <ChaRizMa> gotunu
[21:20:18] <ChaRizMa> sikiyim
[21:20:23] <ChaRizMa> sana bi�iy olmas�n
[21:20:25] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:20:28] <MagicaL> :))))))))
[21:20:39] <ChaRizMa> anlamaz bu angutlar
[21:20:53] <MagicaL> sex yapal�m m�
[21:21:04] <ChaRizMa> sex den anlarlar olm o kelimeden
[21:21:05] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:21:14] <MagicaL> anlas�nlar olm
[21:21:15] <MagicaL> :))
[21:21:15] <ChaRizMa> baska bisiy de
[21:21:20] <MagicaL> big siki�
[21:21:21] <MagicaL> :))
[21:21:23] <ChaRizMa> gay len bunlar�n hepsi
[21:21:28] <MagicaL> vayyy
[21:21:29] <ChaRizMa> pasif hemde
[21:21:36] <MagicaL> gaylar ne yap�yonuz
[21:21:38] <MagicaL> :)
[21:21:38] <ChaRizMa> sikmek laz�m bunlar�n
[21:21:40] <ChaRizMa> topunu
[21:21:53] <MagicaL> onlarda onu istiyor zaten
[21:21:54] <MagicaL> :))
[21:22:04] <ChaRizMa> kanaldaki opa baksana
[21:22:08] <ChaRizMa> cs muahaha
[21:22:15] <MagicaL> :)))
[21:22:19] <MagicaL> onun aq
[21:22:33] <ChaRizMa> cakam ona yaa
[21:22:36] <ChaRizMa> yaa kanka
[21:22:42] <ChaRizMa> baska kanalam� gidelim
[21:22:47] <ChaRizMa> bu okuz salaklar
[21:22:51] <ChaRizMa> bi boktan anlam�o
[21:22:52] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:23:17] <MagicaL> gent�
[21:23:18] <ChaRizMa> gentoo kanal�ndaki oplara baksana m�na koim
[21:23:21] <MagicaL> #gento
[21:23:24] <MagicaL> aynen
[21:23:24] <MagicaL> :)
[21:23:30] <paul_c> hey guys.... If you want to talk in Turkish
[21:23:40] <ChaRizMa> olm orada beni banlad�lar konusam�om
[21:23:42] <paul_c> could you please use /msg
[21:23:47] <MagicaL> yes
[21:23:49] <ChaRizMa> MagicaL ne dio lan bu pic
[21:23:59] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:23:59] <MagicaL> ne bilem
[21:24:00] <MagicaL> :)))
[21:24:06] <ChaRizMa> hay senin
[21:24:07] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:24:20] <ChaRizMa> Turkish Music okee
[21:24:29] <ChaRizMa> paul_c
[21:24:33] <ChaRizMa> Turkish Music
[21:24:38] <ChaRizMa> severmisin
[21:24:43] <ChaRizMa> ingilizcesi ne la
[21:24:59] <MagicaL> paul_c like Turkish Music ?
[21:24:59] <ChaRizMa> MagicaL
[21:25:02] <MagicaL> paul_c like Turkish Music ?
[21:25:11] <paul_c> Not really.
[21:25:18] <MagicaL> why?
[21:25:22] <ChaRizMa> ne dio bu angutyo
[21:25:26] <MagicaL> bekle lem
[21:25:28] <MagicaL> anlatacam
[21:25:44] <MagicaL> paul_c where are you from?
[21:25:56] <ChaRizMa> MagicaL olm bu yamyam len
[21:25:57] <paul_c> England
[21:25:57] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:26:03] <MagicaL> vavvv
[21:26:14] <ChaRizMa> paul_c England oke very gut
[21:26:20] <MagicaL> � am from t�rkiye for antalya
[21:26:33] <MagicaL> paul_c you he? or she?
[21:26:40] <ChaRizMa> MagicaL sor bakam turkiye gelmi�mi bu salak
[21:26:46] <MagicaL> bekle lem
[21:26:48] <MagicaL> konu�uyoz
[21:26:48] <MagicaL> :))
[21:26:53] <ChaRizMa> MagicaL oke
[21:27:32] <MagicaL> paul_c : did you come to Turkiye?
[21:27:33] <ChaRizMa> MagicaL
[21:27:36] <MagicaL> paul_c : did you come to Turkiye?
[21:27:51] <ChaRizMa> ben hay�r dicek
[21:27:57] <ChaRizMa> bence hay�r dicek
[21:27:59] <MagicaL> paul_c : you like hardsex
[21:28:01] <MagicaL> :))))))))
[21:28:08] <ChaRizMa> aha op oldu
[21:28:08] <ChaRizMa> adam
[21:28:11] <ChaRizMa> sutlan�oz
[21:28:12] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:28:13] <paul_c> paul_c has kicked MagicaL from #emc
[21:28:27] <MagicaL> ???
[21:28:28] <ChaRizMa> kickmi bende ip ban
[21:28:30] <ChaRizMa> bekliodum
[21:28:33] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:28:36] <MagicaL> :)
[21:28:41] <paul_c> Next crack gets you banned MagicaL
[21:28:53] <ChaRizMa> c�k d�sar�m� dio sana
[21:28:57] <MagicaL> bir daha ki sefere ban yiyeceksin MagicaL diyor arkada�
[21:28:57] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:29:04] <MagicaL> allahtan azc�k englizcem var
[21:29:05] <MagicaL> :)
[21:29:08] <ChaRizMa> MagicaL uyrmad�lar deme
[21:29:12] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:29:19] <MagicaL> paul_c sorry � am cry :(((
[21:29:20] <ChaRizMa> MagicaL baska kanal bulak gel
[21:29:30] <MagicaL> bekle lem buras� beni sard�
[21:29:35] <ChaRizMa> muahahahahaa
[21:29:38] <MagicaL> :)
[21:30:24] <ChaRizMa> paul_c : did you come to Turkey ?
[21:30:45] <ChaRizMa> bide ben soram ne dicek bakam
[21:30:48] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:30:49] <ChaRizMa> MagicaL
[21:30:53] <MagicaL> :))
[21:30:57] <paul_c> MagicaL & ChaRizMa - One last time. If you want to talk in Turkish, either do it privately or in another channel.
[21:31:02] <ChaRizMa> olm konusanlar�n kanal�na gidek
[21:31:18] <ChaRizMa> ne dio bu pic
[21:31:19] <ChaRizMa> :)
[21:31:44] <ChaRizMa> paul_c Im no english
[21:32:00] <paul_c> me not turkish.
[21:32:10] <ChaRizMa> MagicaL
[21:32:12] <MagicaL> paul_c yes
[21:32:14] <ChaRizMa> ne dio bu len
[21:32:30] <MagicaL> t�rk�e konu�mak istermisiniz ama bunun i�in ba�ka bir kanala gitmeniz gerekir
[21:32:35] <MagicaL> ben t�rk�e bilmiyorum diyor..
[21:32:38] <paul_c> paul_c has kicked ChaRizMa from #emc
[21:32:43] <MagicaL> paul_c
[21:32:45] <MagicaL> op me
[21:32:46] <MagicaL> pls
[21:32:49] <ChaRizMa> MagicaL sole sikeyim onu
[21:32:53] <MagicaL> :))
[21:35:31] <paul_c> That fills the logs a bit....
[21:36:33] <Imperator_> silence :-)
[21:36:58] <paul_c> First time I've had to kick and ban
[21:38:27] <Imperator_> you have done a lot in the BDI branch, Paul
[21:38:56] <paul_c> If someone asks for op status, I have to wonder why... Then ban them.
[21:39:20] <paul_c> Hi John.
[21:39:31] <Imperator_> Hello John
[21:39:45] <jmkasunich> hi guys
[21:43:57] <narnia> question. concerning step file support being merged into brlcad and brlcad interfacing to emc. which of the step aps would have the highest priority?
[21:46:41] <paul_c> does brlcad do g-code export ?
[22:04:18] <narnia> paul_c, i am working on merging that into brlcad.
[22:05:15] <narnia> paul_c, it would be nice if both brlcad and emc both understood step-nc. that will come later.
[22:07:27] <paul_c> * paul_c notes Fred Smith is rising to pick a fight on the CCED list...
[22:09:18] <swp_awaywithwife> it does look that way, doesn't it :)
[22:09:30] <swp_awaywithwife> swp_awaywithwife is now known as SWP_NotQuiteHere
[22:10:04] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> did you notice Mariss Freimanis' post about the G200x on the Gecko list?
[22:10:38] <paul_c> * paul_c is throwing some petrol (gas) on to the fire....
[22:13:59] <paul_c> Blunt question... How much of DeskCNC is GPL EMC code....
[22:14:56] <Imperator_> CCED list ???
[22:15:12] <paul_c> yup
[22:15:30] <paul_c> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/
[22:15:45] <Imperator_> ah
[22:19:14] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> I gather that the G-code interpreter started out as the emc1 code, possibly other parts.
[22:19:37] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> I don't think he's used the GPL code (but of course, I don't know, since I can't see his code)
[22:19:38] <paul_c> The GUI is certainly tkemc when I saw it...
[22:20:36] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> was a version tkemc included in the PD emc1 code?
[22:20:58] <paul_c> tkemc is PD as far as I'm aware.
[22:21:10] <paul_c> However....
[22:21:13] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> that would mean it's OK (though rude) for him to use ir...
[22:21:16] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> it
[22:21:38] <anonimasu> hello
[22:21:50] <paul_c> I find it odd that soon after adding G33 to the interp (in emc2), DeskCNC supports it.
[22:22:04] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> that is interesting
[22:22:12] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> (though he did say he wrote it himself :) )
[22:22:34] <paul_c> Right... Like mach was written entirely by Art.
[22:22:45] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> Absolutely ;)
[22:23:21] <paul_c> and B. Gates wrote all of Windows. or SCO has copyright on Unix.
[22:23:42] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> indeed - I read it in the paper, so it must be true
[22:23:52] <A-L-P-H-A> SWP_NotQuiteHere, any nice way to do some 32bit math on a 8bit processor? lets say I've got 9502F900
[22:23:56] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> (and Micosoft innovates - they don't just steal or buy others' ideas)
[22:24:14] <A-L-P-H-A> SWP_NotQuiteHere, any nice way to do some 32bit math on a 8bit processor? lets say I've got $9502F900 and want to divide that by 10,000,000 (dec)
[22:24:25] <paul_c> wanna see the src code to M$ ?
[22:24:29] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> no
[22:24:31] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: not really :)
[22:24:33] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> !
[22:24:39] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> I'm about to eat
[22:24:44] <paul_c> lol
[22:24:46] <A-L-P-H-A> $9502F900 div 989680
[22:24:46] <A-L-P-H-A> and want to divide that by 10,000,000 (dec)
[22:24:53] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't type and paste at the same time. :(
[22:25:12] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> on the AVR? how about using a 31-bit divide routine?
[22:25:17] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> 32, that is
[22:25:32] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> or are you just readying a value for printing?
[22:25:42] <SWP_NotQuiteHere> SWP_NotQuiteHere is now known as SWPadnos
[22:28:05] <A-L-P-H-A> readying a value for printing ot an LCD
[22:28:19] <A-L-P-H-A> I found a 16bit routine...
[22:28:21] <SWPadnos> and you want to print in decimal, not hex?
[22:29:02] <paul_c> are both numbers in dec ?
[22:29:06] <A-L-P-H-A> this is what I want to do.
[22:29:25] <SWPadnos> I have some fast AVR routines, but they rely on the MEGA core (they use movw)
[22:29:52] <SWPadnos> actually, that's the divide tourines - you need the printing routines, which are more code, but way faster
[22:29:59] <SWPadnos> routines, not tourines
[22:30:06] <SWPadnos> (thinking about food, I guess)
[22:30:08] <A-L-P-H-A> 32bit value (counter) / cyrstal speed = RPS. 60 (sec/min) / RPS = RPMs
[22:30:23] <SWPadnos> RPS * 60 = RPM
[22:30:45] <A-L-P-H-A> eer, yeah.
[22:31:13] <paul_c> don't 'spose the xtal is a power of 2 ?
[22:31:19] <SWPadnos> right - the problem of converting a number to decimal is a bit easier than doing repetetive division,
[22:31:29] <SWPadnos> (like testing for prime, without actually getting the factors)
[22:31:33] <A-L-P-H-A> I can make it a power of 2. like 4mHz, or 8mHz...
[22:31:55] <paul_c> was thinking mor 2^n
[22:32:01] <A-L-P-H-A> oh.
[22:32:15] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... if I can find a 4.096 mHz.
[22:32:46] <paul_c> might make the math a little easier.
[22:32:52] <SWPadnos> wait one - I'll upload a 32-bit -> ASCII routine
[22:33:52] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, thanks.
[22:34:51] <A-L-P-H-A> brb... something's burning.
[22:38:46] <SWPadnos> OK - go to http://www.cncgear.com/Files/LongtoASCII.asm
[22:39:10] <SWPadnos> you'll need to change it for a non-MEGA core, since it usees the extended version of LPM and things like that.
[22:40:08] <SWPadnos> the basic algorithm is to do repetitive subtraction of progressively smaller powers of 10, but with a few timesaving tricks thrown in
[22:40:26] <paul_c> xtal @ 2^22 = 4194304Hz
[22:40:36] <SWPadnos> (I think the original algorithm was on AVRFreaks or something)
[22:41:08] <SWPadnos> that doesn't help, since the number of cycles between tach piulses will probably not be a power of 2
[22:42:02] <SWPadnos> paul_c: I'm headed to a friend's for dinner and robot talk - how late do you expect to be up tonight (and tomorrow morning :) )
[22:42:36] <paul_c> a 32bit counter has enough bits so the rounding errors are of little importance.
[22:43:04] <paul_c> and for a rev counter, it does not need to be exact.
[22:43:54] <paul_c> * paul_c is only going to be up for another 3 or 4 hours.
[22:43:56] <SWPadnos> the P/Xtal is easy that way (though it's pretty easy and fast as a divide - 664 cycles max for 32/32)
[22:43:59] <A-L-P-H-A> isn't a long a 16bit?
[22:44:18] <SWPadnos> OK - I'll review files tonight and we can chat during the dev meeting tomorrow
[22:44:24] <SWPadnos> no - a 16-bit is a short
[22:44:30] <SWPadnos> (to me anyway)
[22:45:14] <SWPadnos> I also have routines that print a decimal string with a decimal point somewhere, so if you scale things correctly, you can have a pseudo-float display
[22:45:20] <paul_c> Long is 32 bit.
[22:45:28] <paul_c> int is 16 bit
[22:46:21] <SWPadnos> A-L-P-H-A: you'll need a RAM variable (dispbytes), which needs to be 12 bytes or longer
[22:46:38] <SWPadnos> you'll need a routine to grab bytes (I think in reverse order) and send them to the LCD
[22:46:55] <SWPadnos> it's been a while since I've had to deal with that end of this software
[22:47:25] <A-L-P-H-A> I think I could deal with the hex value of things.
[22:47:38] <A-L-P-H-A> like converting hex to ASCII integers.
[22:47:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm to deal with each nibble... do a carry, store ASCII integer in a stack.
[22:48:22] <A-L-P-H-A> move to next nibble. repeat till no more nibbles.
[22:48:27] <SWPadnos> you need registers called param0 and counter
[22:49:01] <SWPadnos> you can use low registers for the "long" register sets
[22:49:32] <SWPadnos> {a,b,c}{l,h,ul,uh} = a, b, and C registers, each with a Low, High, UpperLow, and UpperHigh byte
[22:49:36] <A-L-P-H-A> the ascii integer is (if >a, carry to next nibble), + $30 [I think, I'll have to look up the ascii table]
[22:49:59] <SWPadnos> or just "Number + '0'"
[22:50:05] <A-L-P-H-A> that's 12 registers. wow.
[22:50:09] <SWPadnos> ('o' is $30 )
[22:50:14] <SWPadnos> 14 actually
[22:50:27] <SWPadnos> This software has a lot of 32-bit stuff in it
[22:50:40] <SWPadnos> the low registers are less useful for general use anyway
[22:50:48] <SWPadnos> and these can be used as temps if needed
[22:51:07] <SWPadnos> Actually, I've got to run (no - it's not you, Ray :) )
[22:51:07] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, cool. Well,I don't wnat to hold you from your dinner.
[22:51:15] <SWPadnos> I'll be back later.
[22:51:19] <rayh> Hide quick.
[22:51:21] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[22:51:22] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll ask again later.
[23:15:58] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh_away
[23:28:04] <paul_c> * paul_c goes for a ban on CCED
[23:40:19] <danfalck> go paul go :)
[23:41:54] <paul_c> wanna see the tirade the comment brought on my local lug ?
[23:42:03] <jmkasunich> sure
[23:42:16] <danfalck> yea
[23:43:44] <paul_c> Stand by...
[23:43:47] <paul_c> [23:35:20] <iDunno> ... very little software?
[23:43:47] <paul_c> [23:35:38] <iDunno> are you so anal that you think that there's very little software for linux...
[23:43:48] <paul_c> [23:36:06] <iDunno> grow a fucking clue, look at what's available in the open source world, and then realise that there's a reason that linux apps are less exploitable...
[23:43:48] <paul_c> [23:36:51] <iDunno> there's a whole fuckloada good developers out there that audit the code, and there's no problems with fixing the broken bits because WE HAVE THE SOURCE
[23:43:49] <paul_c> [23:37:46] <iDunno> no, compare that with the closed source of the windows operating system, and the very broken API structures, most of the security problems with windows are through the core libraries that it uses, that no one except the twats at microsoft have access to the source.
[23:43:52] <paul_c> [23:38:57] <iDunno> we can't fix the bugs in its kernel, we can't fix the bugs in 90% of its libraries, and we're consistently plagued with Microsoft making the default user a "Power User" and having full access to the kernel, devices, and anything else they want, just in the interest of "easy software installs"
[23:43:56] <paul_c> [23:39:47] <iDunno> the problem with "east software installs" is that the average user doesn't know or care what they are installing, just that it does the "job" that they need at that time
[23:43:59] <paul_c> [23:40:13] <iDunno> it could be spyware for all they care, and lots of them do not bother to even have a virus scanner installed, let alone know what spyware is.
[23:44:44] <paul_c> Guess I shouldn't poke a Debian Developer as he is about to go to bed...
[23:45:51] <danfalck> oh, did you copy the cced list comment for him?
[23:46:02] <paul_c> yup ;}
[23:52:31] <Jymmm> Man the surplus supplies around here really suck anymore
[23:52:43] <danfalck> where?
[23:52:48] <Jymmm> Silicon Valley
[23:53:20] <Jymmm> wanted like $75 for a 6" slide with motor
[23:53:40] <danfalck> surplus stuff is probably always getting smaller and smaller
[23:54:03] <danfalck> since they don't need things like giant tape drives anymore
[23:55:11] <Jymmm> most stuff anymore is medical realteed, but there only computer surplus is in high supply.
[23:55:24] <Jymmm> very high supply
[23:55:47] <danfalck> outdated computers
[23:56:17] <Jymmm> some of there aren't that outdated
[23:57:14] <Jymmm> but just the mass qty's available is pathetic
[23:58:05] <jmkasunich> pathetic as in large quantities, or small
[23:58:45] <K`zan> K`zan is now known as O-M-E-G-A
[23:59:27] <paul_c> Oh foo... Sherline's FTP isn't responding.
[23:59:37] <O-M-E-G-A> O-M-E-G-A is now known as K`zan