#emc | Logs for 2005-02-23

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[00:00:02] <SWPadnos> Assembly - the language for *real* men :)
[00:00:25] <robin_sz> yeah, but only if you write it the hard way, you lot are cheating.
[00:00:44] <SWPadnos> I know - I don't have one of the computers with switches on the front :)
[00:00:54] <robin_sz> heh
[00:01:27] <robin_sz> first tiem I ever wrote assembly, it was with a Z80 machine, a copy of the Z80 manual and a hex editor ;)
[00:01:56] <robin_sz> RM380Z, early Z80 based desktop ting that ran CP/M
[00:02:11] <SWPadnos> Ah - like my experience on the Exidy Sorcerer
[00:02:26] <SWPadnos> (and the Heath HERO-1, though that was a 6809 or something)
[00:02:39] <robin_sz> coo. thats even earlier :)
[00:03:00] <A-L-P-H-A> sorry back.
[00:03:08] <SWPadnos> I actually wrote an asteroids game for the Atari 400/800 in BASIC, before I had a computer
[00:03:12] <SWPadnos> used a lot of paper
[00:03:13] <robin_sz> having seen the light of programing the rabbit in C, my desire to see assembly language has gone away :)
[00:03:24] <robin_sz> hehe
[00:03:50] <SWPadnos> A-L-P-H-A: I was about to let you know how to get rid of a bug, and reduce your code footprint again.
[00:03:58] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[00:04:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm reading, and trying to absorb.
[00:04:20] <websys> geez I feel lie a youngster my first assembly code was on a 68000
[00:04:32] <robin_sz> hi bob
[00:04:33] <SWPadnos> Ah - the Amiga
[00:04:44] <websys> Actually an HP workstation
[00:04:47] <SWPadnos> First, to save the status register, you'll need another variable - this might as well be in the lower 16
[00:05:20] <SWPadnos> as the first instruction in the interrupt, do IN R1, SREG
[00:05:21] <A-L-P-H-A> my first asm code was written on an pentium 2. :)
[00:05:37] <SWPadnos> as the last (before RETI), do OUT SREG, R1
[00:05:41] <SWPadnos> (wuss - P2)
[00:07:20] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/generic.run: keystick doesn't appear to read the ini file for the specified nml config. So pass it on the command line.
[00:07:23] <SWPadnos> The rest of the interrupt is ldi Changed, 1; inc Motor_X_Phase_Position; sbis PORTD, Motor_X_dir; subi Motor_X_Phase_Position, 2
[00:08:13] <SWPadnos> should be 7 words total, the same as now, but with a nasty bug fixed
[00:10:45] <SWPadnos> incidentally, a simple way to inc or dec based on a bit is this:
[00:11:03] <SWPadnos> sbis BIT; inc X; sbic BIT; dec X
[00:11:33] <SWPadnos> only one of the INC/DEC instructions will execute in the interrupt, because the bit will only be either 1 or 0
[00:11:45] <SWPadnos> (not both)
[00:31:07] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, hang on.
[00:31:13] <A-L-P-H-A> sorry, got completely sidetracked.
[00:31:19] <A-L-P-H-A> just bought a colocation server.
[00:31:26] <A-L-P-H-A> webhosting anyone?
[00:34:04] <SWPadnos> I just signed up with DreamHost
[00:35:47] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.pastebin.com/245203
[00:37:24] <SWPadnos> getting there - check the interrupt changes in my last group of lines
[00:44:06] <A-L-P-H-A> what was the bug?
[00:44:28] <SWPadnos> You weren't saving the status register.
[00:44:39] <SWPadnos> that would cause little things like the main loop not behaving correctly
[00:45:02] <A-L-P-H-A> which status? the inc X?? or the Changed flag?
[00:45:09] <SWPadnos> SREG
[00:45:32] <SWPadnos> if an interrupt would occur between the cpi Changed, 0; breq MainLoop
[00:45:55] <SWPadnos> you wouldn't be branching based on the cpi, it would be dependent on what the interrupt had done
[00:46:04] <SWPadnos> (processor status)
[00:46:27] <A-L-P-H-A> ahhh
[00:46:51] <SWPadnos> BTW CPI X, 0 can be shortened to tst X
[00:47:22] <SWPadnos> Also, one thing I often do is have a variable (in the top half) called Flags, and use bit flags for things like Changed
[00:47:45] <SWPadnos> (sbr Flags, 1<<Changed and sbrs Flags, Changed)
[00:48:24] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.pastebin.com/245208
[00:48:55] <A-L-P-H-A> Ijust used a whole register.
[00:50:04] <A-L-P-H-A> there was a typo in EXT_INT1
[00:53:11] <A-L-P-H-A> now, I don't really understand your ZL, ZH statemenst. I'm only using 8 bytes. So you're saying I only need list ZH, and just set ZL? [this I don't know what I'm doing then]
[00:53:32] <SWPadnos> Hold on a sec - I'll post a link to a modified version
[00:57:33] <SWPadnos> take a look http://www.pastebin.com/245215
[00:57:42] <SWPadnos> I haven't changed everything yet
[00:57:48] <SWPadnos> but the idea is there
[00:58:34] <SWPadnos> If you use R30 as A, then you can get rid of the mov ZL,A.
[00:58:54] <SWPadnos> if you just use the value from R0, you can eliminate the mov A, r0
[00:59:13] <A-L-P-H-A> ahh. :) hmm.
[00:59:15] <SWPadnos> then you're left with another 1-word subroutine (and you know what to do with those)
[01:02:34] <A-L-P-H-A> subi Motor_A_Phase_Position, 2 ??? why's it 2?
[01:02:43] <A-L-P-H-A> shouldn't that be 1?
[01:03:03] <SWPadnos> because I always add 1, and if it was supposed to go backwards, then I have to subtract that one, plus the one to move
[01:03:15] <A-L-P-H-A> oh!
[01:03:19] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[01:03:22] <SWPadnos> this saves one cycle and one word per interrupt
[01:03:41] <A-L-P-H-A> wow. that's awesome actually.
[01:03:47] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't think I would have thought of that.
[01:04:04] <SWPadnos> It takes a while to think in those terms
[01:06:53] <SWPadnos> Oh yesh - in the main loop, if you load B first, then you can save a few more words. and get rid of the PhaseA and PhaseB variables
[01:07:05] <SWPadnos> (yes, not yesh)
[01:07:57] <A-L-P-H-A> man! that's incredible.
[01:08:02] <A-L-P-H-A> no, seriously.
[01:08:21] <SWPadnos> if you get rid of the get_phase subroutine (because it's just an LPM now)
[01:08:25] <A-L-P-H-A> you've whiddled away like 30 words from my code.
[01:08:34] <SWPadnos> wait - I'm not done :)
[01:08:51] <A-L-P-H-A> get phase is gone.
[01:09:47] <SWPadnos> Have you uploaded it?
[01:10:01] <SWPadnos> (it's not PHP - do you think anyone will mind?)
[01:10:19] <A-L-P-H-A> no, I'll do that.
[01:10:33] <A-L-P-H-A> nope, no one minds.
[01:10:38] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.pastebin.com/245218
[01:10:53] <SWPadnos> one moment, please :)
[01:11:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't think I need the two CLR statements either... as I'm MOV them later.
[01:12:14] <SWPadnos> those variables won't be there in a second
[01:12:52] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[01:14:24] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm still astonished about the ANDI Register, $07, works like modulus.
[01:18:47] <SWPadnos> try this: http://www.pastebin.com/245221
[01:22:12] <A-L-P-H-A> wow, ripped out 40 words from my orgiina.
[01:22:16] <A-L-P-H-A> original.
[01:22:29] <A-L-P-H-A> originally it was 250 words or something silly. And it's now down to 126 words.
[01:22:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I had an issue though from the last pastebin... the motors were only going in one direction
[01:23:28] <SWPadnos> from 245221?
[01:24:38] <A-L-P-H-A> 245215
[01:24:47] <SWPadnos> sorry - the INT0/1 routines have a bug
[01:25:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I've toggeled portd pins 3 and 5... and they're going in only one dir.
[01:25:21] <SWPadnos> the SBIS PORTD, Motor_A/B_Dir need to be SBID PIND - not PORTD
[01:25:29] <SWPadnos> PORTD is the output port, PIND is the inputs
[01:25:56] <SWPadnos> (value to output or tri-state register versus whatever is actually on the pins)
[01:26:13] <SWPadnos> sorry - pull-up, not tri-state
[01:27:03] <SWPadnos> I usually make definitions for all the input and output functions - something like DIRINP = PIND
[01:27:22] <A-L-P-H-A> the Motor_A/B_Phase position isn't being set properly...
[01:27:23] <SWPadnos> then do SBIS DIRINP, Motor_A_Dir
[01:27:30] <A-L-P-H-A> the input pin definition is Motor_A_Dir
[01:27:39] <SWPadnos> but the port is PIND, not PORTD
[01:27:52] <A-L-P-H-A> sbis portD, 3 / 5 (a / b)
[01:28:06] <SWPadnos> no - sbid PIND, 3 / 5
[01:28:09] <SWPadnos> sbis
[01:28:34] <SWPadnos> each port has *3* registers - control, output value, and input value
[01:28:54] <SWPadnos> called DDRn, PORTn, and PINn, respectively
[01:30:10] <A-L-P-H-A> k what does this do then: "SBIS portD, 3" sees if port D pin 3 is set.
[01:30:17] <A-L-P-H-A> PD3 is set high.
[01:30:26] <SWPadnos> it sees a 1
[01:30:29] <SWPadnos> always
[01:30:58] <SWPadnos> http://www.pastebin.com/245225
[01:32:43] <A-L-P-H-A> DDR = data direction. Port and pin I'm confused now.
[01:32:53] <A-L-P-H-A> OH!
[01:32:55] <A-L-P-H-A> nm.
[01:33:03] <A-L-P-H-A> PORT is the output, and PIN is the input value.
[01:33:08] <SWPadnos> right
[01:33:19] <A-L-P-H-A> took me a little while for that to sink in.
[01:33:38] <SWPadnos> in input mode, PORT decides whether or not the physical pin is pulled high or not
[01:33:52] <SWPadnos> PIN tells you what level the pin is at
[01:34:32] <SWPadnos> (this is true even in output mode. if you're trying to drive a load that's too much for the pin, it mught not go to the level you set, and you would read that back on PINx)
[01:35:20] <A-L-P-H-A> sweet. 126 words. 40 less that what I started out with today. more than 120 off what I had yesterday
[01:35:38] <SWPadnos> and it might even work better :)
[01:35:43] <A-L-P-H-A> PIN, input. PORT output.
[01:35:50] <SWPadnos> that's the great thing about microcontrollers
[01:35:58] <SWPadnos> small size usually means faster also
[01:36:03] <SWPadnos> (code size)
[01:36:15] <A-L-P-H-A> heh. Now... if this works good, i wanna try my hand on making a microstepper. :) hehe
[01:36:22] <SWPadnos> bye :0
[01:36:27] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe
[01:36:36] <A-L-P-H-A> If I had a scope, I'd try to learn to do it.
[01:36:53] <SWPadnos> are you directly driving the motor (small type), or do you have transistors?
[01:37:10] <A-L-P-H-A> yep, TIP121. with building in direction diodes.
[01:37:16] <A-L-P-H-A> building=builtin
[01:37:27] <SWPadnos> right
[01:37:55] <A-L-P-H-A> directly drive the transistors... each phase hooked up to a transistor, and commons to 24VDC.
[01:38:02] <SWPadnos> there's a pretty cool little stepper driver I'm looking for
[01:38:03] <A-L-P-H-A> these are 4VDC 1.2A steppers.
[01:38:07] <SWPadnos> I'll post a link once I find it
[01:38:15] <SWPadnos> EEK!
[01:38:31] <SWPadnos> be rally careful with the 6X overvoltage!
[01:38:33] <SWPadnos> really
[01:38:36] <A-L-P-H-A> dump 24VDC into the system.
[01:40:36] <SWPadnos> you should have a timeout to turn off all phases if left in the same state for too long (like 1-10 ms)
[01:42:53] <SWPadnos> look at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=71393&item=3875754198&rd=1
[01:42:57] <A-L-P-H-A> wouldn't I want the steppers to be holding torque?
[01:43:08] <SWPadnos> there are great links to technical information
[01:43:24] <robin_sz> hmmm .. only 6x ?? geckos usually run at 20x rated voltage to get some speed out of them
[01:43:36] <SWPadnos> Geckos are choppers, this is static
[01:43:49] <robin_sz> how very 1960's ;)
[01:43:54] <A-L-P-H-A> well, I do have 5 geckos kicking around.
[01:43:59] <A-L-P-H-A> this is more for fun, and learning atmels.
[01:44:03] <SWPadnos> the Gecko has current sensing, and it never exceeds the set current
[01:44:05] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[01:44:09] <A-L-P-H-A> 5 gecko g201's.
[01:44:13] <SWPadnos> use them :)
[01:44:16] <A-L-P-H-A> another 1 that's alive, and 2 dead.
[01:44:21] <robin_sz> anyway .. bedtime .. its 2am here
[01:44:28] <SWPadnos> nighty night
[01:44:28] <A-L-P-H-A> 1's repaiarable, the other is spare parts.
[01:44:33] <A-L-P-H-A> later robin_sz
[01:44:33] <robin_sz> * robin_sz waves
[01:45:42] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, why not just make them? the schematics are free on the web.
[01:45:54] <A-L-P-H-A> then again, with all the components, and built board, that isn't a bad price at all.
[01:46:08] <SWPadnos> sure - I was just pointing out a microstep design for you :)
[01:46:16] <SWPadnos> (I've got servos and G320s)
[01:46:29] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm thinking of moving over to servos, and g320s.
[01:46:41] <SWPadnos> good plan :)
[01:50:23] <A-L-P-H-A> so with servos, I'm gonna need an encoder (quadrature for gecko g320s, I believe), motor, powersupply. Hmm... maybe I should read up on his whitepapers.
[01:50:51] <SWPadnos> I think the whitepapers are on steppers (could be wrong)
[01:51:00] <A-L-P-H-A> I read those already.
[01:51:06] <SWPadnos> You still need a power supply with steppers :)
[01:51:16] <A-L-P-H-A> that's how I'm able to build my power supply.
[01:51:40] <A-L-P-H-A> what kind of voltage am I looking at for driving some servos?
[01:51:58] <SWPadnos> it varies widely.
[01:52:17] <SWPadnos> It depends on the speeds you want to run them at as well
[01:59:33] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... should I put a 5 ms delay just prior to the "tst Changed" statement?
[01:59:36] <A-L-P-H-A> wait.
[01:59:52] <A-L-P-H-A> I should use a timercounter, to turn off the motors.
[02:00:17] <A-L-P-H-A> so like, start a timer, once something has changed... if overflow occurs, shut down motors.
[02:00:22] <SWPadnos> It's a little more complex than that
[02:00:29] <A-L-P-H-A> interrupts should restart the the counter.
[02:00:30] <SWPadnos> you want to do this individually for each motor
[02:00:44] <A-L-P-H-A> horray for timer1 and timer0. :)
[02:00:48] <SWPadnos> (or just use a 5V supply)
[02:01:04] <A-L-P-H-A> but won't the spin slower? :)
[02:01:20] <SWPadnos> it won't have as much torque, but it can go just as fast
[02:01:24] <A-L-P-H-A> I guess if I was worried about speed, I'd be using servos.
[02:01:27] <SWPadnos> (sort of)
[02:01:38] <SWPadnos> or Geckos
[02:01:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I thoguth it was the other way around.
[02:01:47] <A-L-P-H-A> I'd have enough torque, but no speed.
[02:02:06] <SWPadnos> no - that would be true with servos
[02:02:27] <SWPadnos> with steppers, the higher voltage is used to kick the motor into the next step quickly
[02:02:43] <SWPadnos> (so it does effect speed)
[02:02:51] <SWPadnos> (and affect speed :) )
[02:03:36] <SWPadnos> with a servo, as long as you have enough voltage to get current through the windings, you get full torque.
[02:03:52] <SWPadnos> since the motor generates voltage when it spins, you need higher voltages to go higher speeds
[02:04:03] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm in this boat. I have a extra shitty steppers (which I want to use for SMALL projects). and not willing to shell out anything more than what I have in my parts bin. Though there is ONE motor/controller I need, for a nema 24 framed application. [rotary axis for my lathe]
[02:04:32] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, makes sense.
[02:04:52] <SWPadnos> I'd re-read the stepper whitepapers. I don't know enough about motors to give you a good timeout, but I know there should be one
[02:05:20] <SWPadnos> in some cases, 1 ms may be too long
[02:05:30] <SWPadnos> in others, 5ms may not be long enough
[02:05:44] <SWPadnos> (curent sensing is the ticket here)
[02:07:12] <A-L-P-H-A> nema 23. not 24
[02:08:43] <SWPadnos> I think I wasn't perfectly accurate about high voltage on steppers - I'd read Mariss' stuff - he knows way more than I do about that stuff.
[02:09:29] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, I remember it being stated [for steppers] as low voltage = slow, maintain torque. high voltage = higher speeds, loss of torque.
[02:09:46] <SWPadnos> that's just the stepper speed/torque curve
[02:09:52] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah
[02:10:03] <SWPadnos> it's true for all steppers, regardless of overdriving them
[02:10:36] <SWPadnos> the Geckos get higher performance because the higher voltage collapses the magnetic field in the winfings faster
[02:10:59] <SWPadnos> but they don't blow the motors up because they're current limited - they shut off when the current gets to the setpoint
[02:11:47] <SWPadnos> so in that sense, they're "safe"
[02:11:56] <SWPadnos> (at higher voltage)
[02:13:01] <SWPadnos> I should take out my MPG and put this phase code into it
[02:13:06] <A-L-P-H-A> there really isn't that much of a price difference between servos and steppers... especially if you're using geckos.
[02:13:26] <A-L-P-H-A> MPG?
[02:13:33] <SWPadnos> Manual Pulse Generator
[02:13:55] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[02:19:14] <SWPadnos> crap photos here: http://www.cncgear.com/MPG/
[02:19:55] <SWPadnos> (one day I'll get a good digital camera)
[02:20:00] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[02:21:01] <SWPadnos> The green connector next to the black connector has 4 transistor outputs that can drive a stepper.
[02:21:13] <SWPadnos> I just have to figure out how to get the PWM of the ATMEGA162 to do it right
[02:21:24] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[02:21:41] <A-L-P-H-A> so is that just for manually turning a stepper?
[02:21:48] <SWPadnos> kind of.
[02:22:09] <SWPadnos> It's meant as an interim step for a particular customer going from manual to CNC control
[02:22:21] <SWPadnos> I'll also be amking it into a rotary indexer
[02:22:24] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm so contemplating of just pulling a stepper off my mill, and mounting it to the rotary axis on my lathe.
[02:22:40] <SWPadnos> not enough torque, probably
[02:22:52] <SWPadnos> (if you're talking about the lathe spindle)
[02:23:03] <A-L-P-H-A> it's driven by a 100tooth worm. 100:1 ration.
[02:23:19] <SWPadnos> well - that would help
[02:23:24] <A-L-P-H-A> sec.
[02:23:59] <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Rotional_axis/
[02:24:26] <A-L-P-H-A> no photos of it assembled.
[02:25:08] <A-L-P-H-A> i have a 5 phase starwound stepper motor that is propritary to oriental motors (read: patented) so no one has drivers for it. And they wants $1056USD for just the driver. 5 available, able to ship today.
[02:25:09] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[02:25:28] <SWPadnos> which stepper is that?
[02:25:50] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll get the number sec.
[02:26:02] <SWPadnos> I have two Superior SS-1800, sounds like a similar motor
[02:27:00] <A-L-P-H-A> PK5690AUHA
[02:27:04] <A-L-P-H-A> PK569-AUHA
[02:27:23] <A-L-P-H-A> no specs on the web... have to call 1800govexta to get someone.
[02:27:39] <SWPadnos> Oh - a 5-phase motor - fun
[02:27:56] <SWPadnos> (you said that - duh :) )
[02:28:00] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[02:28:49] <SWPadnos> I just looked up 5-phase stuff for someone on the CCED list - was that you?
[02:28:57] <SWPadnos> found drive patterns
[02:29:04] <SWPadnos> (you'd need a bigger AVR though)
[02:29:04] <A-L-P-H-A> Lloyd Leung?
[02:29:16] <A-L-P-H-A> I only have one 5 phase motor.
[02:29:20] <A-L-P-H-A> so this AVR would be fine.
[02:29:41] <SWPadnos> true - except that it's a good thing to have bidirectional drive
[02:29:43] <A-L-P-H-A> I think I asked in here.
[02:30:22] <SWPadnos> Peter Barrett asked the question - 1/17/2005
[02:31:27] <A-L-P-H-A> uh, it's only got 5 wires... there's the other problem. I found the phase windings, and phase pulses... just no knowledge of how it'll go... like I've only got 5 windings, right? so most of them have to be operating... it's like all 5 or 4 windings will be going at the same time.
[02:31:49] <A-L-P-H-A> 0.72degrees step. :/
[02:32:04] <SWPadnos> the drive patterns are weird - look at http://ee.tamu.edu/~empelab/power_tran98.pdf
[02:33:02] <A-L-P-H-A> so that's 10 transistors. and I have 15 IO pins... I can still controll 1 motor.
[02:33:09] <SWPadnos> true
[02:33:18] <A-L-P-H-A> I'd just need another 2 TIP121s.
[02:33:24] <A-L-P-H-A> 2.8Amps.
[02:33:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I believe it was 0.55ohms.
[02:34:14] <SWPadnos> I've found that some of the surface mount transistors can take a LOT of current.
[02:34:39] <SWPadnos> like - they can get hot enough to melt the solder holding them down, and they still work when you put them back on the board
[02:35:00] <A-L-P-H-A> that's impressive.
[02:35:16] <A-L-P-H-A> are we talking the allegromotion products?
[02:35:46] <SWPadnos> Digikey - MMBT2222, or a darlington in an SOT23 package
[02:38:04] <SWPadnos> (not 2.8A though - only 2A)
[02:38:37] <SWPadnos> MJD122T4OSTR-ND should work
[02:39:00] <A-L-P-H-A> checking
[02:39:12] <SWPadnos> (sorry - use the CT version, unless you want 2500 of them)
[02:39:59] <A-L-P-H-A> heh, that's better. :)
[02:40:13] <A-L-P-H-A> I have TIP121 already which should work.
[02:40:29] <SWPadnos> true
[02:40:38] <A-L-P-H-A> 80V 5A
[02:41:25] <A-L-P-H-A> the 32 mode phase driving works for me.
[02:41:30] <A-L-P-H-A> just do 5 bit counter...
[02:41:48] <A-L-P-H-A> err.
[02:41:50] <A-L-P-H-A> 5 bit register.
[02:41:52] <SWPadnos> 32? - 10 steps is "half-stepping"
[02:42:12] <A-L-P-H-A> http://ee.tamu.edu/~empelab/power_tran98.pdf bottom of page2
[02:44:56] <SWPadnos> right - I think some of those are not useful
[02:45:05] <SWPadnos> like - - - - +
[02:45:15] <SWPadnos> it's too much current in one leg
[02:45:16] <A-L-P-H-A> ----+ wouldn't really mean much no.
[02:45:22] <A-L-P-H-A> but it's not doing that.
[02:45:43] <SWPadnos> It also depends on whether the motor is star or "penta" wired
[02:45:45] <A-L-P-H-A> it's like ++++- -+++- -++++ --++++ there's like 32 of them that way
[02:46:02] <A-L-P-H-A> nm
[02:46:03] <SWPadnos> no - 32 is the number of bit patterns in 5 bits
[02:46:03] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm blind.
[02:46:09] <SWPadnos> yes :)
[02:46:28] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, it's doing 2^5 = 32
[02:46:44] <A-L-P-H-A> so there is only 10.
[02:46:51] <SWPadnos> right
[02:47:03] <SWPadnos> that's still 100 steps per revolution though
[02:47:05] <SWPadnos> 1000
[02:47:06] <A-L-P-H-A> so would I sitll need to turn off the motor?
[02:47:28] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah.
[02:47:30] <A-L-P-H-A> 1000 steps.
[02:47:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I may even want to do full stepping.
[02:49:31] <SWPadnos> I had found a different description of 5-phase stuff, but I'm not sure where ATM
[02:52:13] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, I'm think I don't even need to use all 10 pins, and just use a couple of extrenal hex inverters.
[02:52:24] <A-L-P-H-A> use a 7404.
[02:52:26] <SWPadnos> that would work
[02:52:50] <SWPadnos> the other drive pattern used off as a valid value, not always on / reverse
[02:53:11] <A-L-P-H-A> pardon?
[02:53:50] <SWPadnos> ie, each leg could be +, -, or not energized
[02:55:29] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm.
[02:55:38] <A-L-P-H-A> how many steps would that give me then? that's a lot.
[02:55:47] <SWPadnos> there were still only 10 steps - they were just different
[02:55:50] <A-L-P-H-A> if I reverse voltage, I'm already getting half stepping.
[02:56:21] <A-L-P-H-A> crap, I can't remember if this was star winding, or pentagon winding that Vexta does.
[02:56:29] <SWPadnos> well - there's no "common" on that motor - you need to connect something to ground to have any current flow
[02:57:59] <A-L-P-H-A> http://ee.tamu.edu/~empelab/power_tran98.pdf figure 1.
[02:58:18] <A-L-P-H-A> is O the common/gnd?
[02:58:25] <A-L-P-H-A> this is messed to me.
[02:58:25] <SWPadnos> that means each output has to be half of an H-bridge (push-pull)
[02:59:03] <SWPadnos> it's not connected to the motor. It's the zero reference for the mega-equations that follow
[02:59:13] <A-L-P-H-A> so we're talking +24V and -24V?
[02:59:31] <SWPadnos> in this case, it's +vi/2 and -vi/2
[03:02:01] <A-L-P-H-A> hang on... what happens when I have have two transistors going to each wire. Except only one gate will ever be open. So that one gate is +VDC, and the second gate is GND, wouldn't that work?
[03:03:50] <SWPadnos> found it - http://www.tamagawa-seiki.com/pdfe/1596n1e.pdf
[03:03:58] <A-L-P-H-A> checking
[03:04:30] <A-L-P-H-A> this is a pentagon winding.
[03:04:33] <SWPadnos> page 9
[03:04:58] <A-L-P-H-A> mine's star winding, diferent driving/phase configuration.
[03:05:06] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:05:07] <SWPadnos> OK
[03:41:11] <Jymmm> can I have a octogon winding please!
[03:41:36] <Jymmm> or have how about a heart winding
[03:42:00] <Jymmm> </dumb cute humor>
[03:44:01] <SWPadnos> heart plug?
[04:16:31] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/drivers/sensoray/ (sensoray526.c sensoray526.h): encoderRead functions tested and working.
[05:00:36] <Jymmm> blah
[05:26:38] <paul_c> Up early, or like me, Late ?
[05:26:58] <Jymmm> yes
[05:27:07] <SWPadnos> yes
[05:27:26] <Jymmm> anyone know a cheap way to get 800lbs from NY to SF ?
[05:27:46] <SWPadnos> no way (depending on your definition of cheap)
[05:28:05] <Jymmm> less than the cost of the actual items I want to purchase
[05:28:20] <SWPadnos> I guess it depends on how much the items cost, then
[05:28:25] <Jymmm> 800
[05:28:31] <paul_c> Do you guys have a UPS type service for pallets ?
[05:28:43] <SWPadnos> not really.
[05:28:44] <Jymmm> not for 800 lbs
[05:28:55] <SWPadnos> What are the ZIP codes? I can check FreightQuote
[05:29:06] <Jymmm> just a sec...
[05:29:30] <Jymmm> from 12589 to 94086
[05:29:38] <Jymmm> nfc on freight class
[05:30:20] <SWPadnos> it's determined by the size / weight
[05:30:43] <Jymmm> 3x3x4 * 2
[05:30:47] <Jymmm> 2 units
[05:30:51] <SWPadnos> loading docks? (at source and destination)
[05:30:58] <Jymmm> residence at both
[05:31:08] <SWPadnos> that'll add around $200
[05:31:15] <SWPadnos> (estimated)
[05:31:22] <Jymmm> yeah... bastards
[05:31:48] <SWPadnos> need a liftgate, or would there be hoists etc. available?
[05:32:01] <Jymmm> liftgate for both
[05:32:26] <SWPadnos> ooh - even worse. hold on a sec
[05:32:36] <SWPadnos> can the 2 items be put on a single pallet?
[05:32:40] <Jymmm> no
[05:33:00] <SWPadnos> so it's 2 @ 400 pounds, or 2 at 800 pounds?
[05:33:05] <SWPadnos> (each)
[05:33:17] <Jymmm> 2 @ 400
[05:33:31] <SWPadnos> used commercial goods?
[05:33:36] <Jymmm> yep
[05:33:53] <SWPadnos> non-standard pallets (not 4x4)
[05:34:02] <Jymmm> standard
[05:34:08] <SWPadnos> OK - stackable?
[05:34:12] <Jymmm> no
[05:34:19] <SWPadnos> ok
[05:35:02] <SWPadnos> does 800 lbs include the pallets?
[05:35:07] <Jymmm> yes
[05:35:44] <SWPadnos> OK - and what will the height be when each item is on the pallet (4x4x3 or 4x4x4)?
[05:35:57] <Jymmm> 4' tall
[05:36:59] <SWPadnos> well - it's freight class 125 (bad)
[05:37:19] <SWPadnos> $776.42 is the lowest price
[05:37:27] <Jymmm> damn
[05:37:46] <Jymmm> does it say with who?
[05:37:49] <SWPadnos> yeah - I went through this for my Bridgeport (2000 pounds)
[05:37:59] <SWPadnos> Con-Way aur ground plus
[05:38:01] <Jymmm> how much was that?
[05:38:02] <SWPadnos> air
[05:38:21] <Jymmm> for the bridgeport freight
[05:38:30] <SWPadnos> A friend and I rented a Ryder truck and drove 350 miles to get it (each way, plus we got his Lathe on the way)
[05:38:53] <Jymmm> lol damn, I was thinking the same thing... fly to NY and drive back
[05:39:02] <SWPadnos> it would have been around $700 otherwise, with no liftgates
[05:39:20] <Jymmm> but I would think the gas would be more than the freight
[05:39:27] <SWPadnos> You'd be able to do it with a U-Haul - they can take 800 pounds
[05:39:29] <paul_c> Pay my expenses, and I'll do it.
[05:39:36] <Jymmm> $76 for liftgates I can handle
[05:39:57] <SWPadnos> 350 miles vs. 3000 miles - a bit of a difference in freight
[05:40:00] <Jymmm> paul_c $250 and it's a deal
[05:40:24] <paul_c> that covers air fare one way..
[05:40:33] <Jymmm> swim back =)
[05:40:46] <Jymmm> you need the exercise anyway =)
[05:40:53] <paul_c> I'd get wet.
[05:41:02] <SWPadnos> I could do it for you, but the mileage charge on the rental would suck. (usually $29-$59/mile)
[05:41:03] <Jymmm> swim REALLY fast!
[05:41:21] <SWPadnos> (cents, not dollars)
[05:41:32] <Jymmm> I'd hope it was cents =)
[05:41:44] <SWPadnos> they'd sure be making money if it weren't
[05:42:25] <Jymmm> This REALLY sucks... I can get two 150 watt lasers, but no way to get them to me.... AGRH!!!
[05:42:29] <SWPadnos> You're in or near San Jose, right?
[05:42:33] <Jymmm> yeah
[05:43:16] <SWPadnos> It doesn't help - I already bought my ticket to SF
[05:43:30] <Jymmm> damn
[05:44:46] <paul_c> Jymmm: You going to the codeFest ?
[05:45:04] <Jymmm> paul_c never even heard of it
[05:45:31] <SWPadnos> U-Haul is $1784 for their smallest truck
[05:45:45] <Jymmm> * Jymmm sighs heavily
[05:46:00] <paul_c> http://www.linuxcnc.org/EMC_news_history/Programmers-Fest2005.html
[05:46:06] <Jymmm> anyone in the military?!
[05:46:35] <SWPadnos> several people are
[05:46:49] <Jymmm> put these suckers on a military transport!
[05:46:51] <SWPadnos> weird - it's only $1384 from Vermont (for U-Haul)
[05:47:08] <SWPadnos> I have friends with pickup trucks
[05:47:28] <Jymmm> just the gas alone might cost more
[05:47:31] <SWPadnos> but I'm not sure I'd want to drive a small pickup across the country with an extra 800 pound load.
[05:47:50] <SWPadnos> (U-Haul is plus gas, at around 8 miles/gallon)
[05:48:15] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, btw, thanks for all the help you've given me. I learned alot.
[05:48:16] <Jymmm> freight is still cheaper...
[05:48:27] <SWPadnos> no problem - happy to help
[05:48:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: See, if I knew 100% the lasers are operational I wouldn't have a problem paying the freight.
[05:49:21] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, that's what happens when you buy used.
[05:49:22] <SWPadnos> well - if you only took one of them, the freight would be much better
[05:49:34] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: by $300
[05:49:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I could use the 2nd one for spare parts
[05:50:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I t just doens't make sense not buying bother of them
[05:50:08] <A-L-P-H-A> yikes.
[05:50:08] <Jymmm> both
[05:50:11] <SWPadnos> you canjust about use a rental car with a 400 pound load - a minivan can carry it easily
[05:50:22] <A-L-P-H-A> albino woman... that's a biker chick... scary...
[05:50:27] <SWPadnos> actually, a Caravan has an 1100 pound capacity
[05:50:49] <SWPadnos> (those are generally $300-$400 per week
[05:50:53] <A-L-P-H-A> load capacity? or hualing capacity?
[05:51:04] <A-L-P-H-A> no friends with trucks?
[05:51:11] <SWPadnos> load - not a trailer (you can't tow with rentals)
[05:51:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: gas is expensive though
[05:51:33] <SWPadnos> I have friends with trucks, but I'm not sure I want to put 6-7 thousand miles on one of them :)
[05:51:37] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, SPLURGE! Jumpstart the economy.
[05:51:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, it just be easier to go freight.
[05:52:07] <Jymmm> or military transport
[05:52:34] <SWPadnos> Yo umay be able to find an independent trucker who's got a deadhead run back toward CA
[05:52:39] <A-L-P-H-A> invite a teleporter (Star trek style)... and be done with it.
[05:52:40] <SWPadnos> they might be pretty cheap
[05:53:03] <SWPadnos> My transporter takes too much power :)
[05:53:10] <A-L-P-H-A> were are we getting stuff back from to where?
[05:53:20] <SWPadnos> from New York to California
[05:53:25] <A-L-P-H-A> I'd lend you mine, but it's missing the flux capacitors.
[05:53:37] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, cross country, big time.
[05:53:50] <SWPadnos> yes - hence the reluctance to borrow a vehicle
[05:54:05] <Jymmm> Well, everything happens for a reason...
[05:54:24] <SWPadnos> yes - use the eBay "near me" search feature :)
[05:54:33] <A-L-P-H-A> heh. I had a friend, went in for an oil change friday. weekend road trip on his bike. tuesday goes back in for another oil change. :) hehe
[05:55:26] <Jymmm> I just want a 100 Watt CO2 laser for $2000 or less!
[05:55:33] <Jymmm> damn it damn it damn it
[05:55:40] <SWPadnos> oh, is that all?
[05:55:47] <Jymmm> SWPadnos yes
[05:55:50] <Jymmm> brb
[05:56:24] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, dude... freight. that's about the only way.
[05:56:41] <A-L-P-H-A> you could probably find a frieght carrier to do it for $500-600 USD.
[05:57:01] <SWPadnos> 776 was the lowest I found
[05:59:10] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, check out moving guys... local movings guys... like two men and a truck type deal.
[05:59:45] <SWPadnos> the trouble is that you then have to pay for fueland lodging - it's a 2-3 day trip each way.
[06:00:23] <SWPadnos> a truck gets 10 miles/gallon if you're lucky - multiply by 6500, and you're at 650 gallons = $1300
[06:00:51] <Jymmm> Well, back to laser shopping I guess =(
[06:02:46] <SWPadnos> have you asked the seller about shipping? some companies get discounts
[06:02:49] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, 'icks... that makes sense too.
[06:03:01] <SWPadnos> (big discounts, like 50% or more)
[06:03:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yep, called the company he uses.
[06:03:18] <SWPadnos> using his account number?
[06:03:33] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, see if movers and your seller can arrange shipping times, so the frieght can make a job both ways.
[06:03:33] <SWPadnos> (or whatever)
[06:03:42] <Jymmm> he doesn't have an account
[06:03:43] <A-L-P-H-A> oops not SWPadnos
[06:03:45] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm
[06:03:55] <SWPadnos> right - I found the item though
[06:04:08] <SWPadnos> (it's close enough for me to pick it up :)
[06:04:32] <SWPadnos> cool - you can get a DNA sequencer from the same seller
[06:04:45] <SWPadnos> (then I'd be able to build anything muahahahahahaha)
[06:04:55] <sxpert> lol
[06:04:57] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, uh... thouse aren't hard to make.
[06:05:04] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, seriously.
[06:05:13] <SWPadnos> I have one, but I only use it with my wife.
[06:05:19] <sxpert> "be your own CSI"
[06:05:40] <A-L-P-H-A> <-- bio + comp sci undergraduate. Well... I short cutted and finished with Mathematical Sciences.
[06:05:49] <SWPadnos> cool
[06:06:17] <SWPadnos> I've heard about the chips with zillions of chemical receptors bonded to a silicon substrate
[06:06:29] <SWPadnos> for quick diagnosis and other uses
[06:06:41] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, those are neat... they came out after I graduated... but cost lots... it's a lab on a chip.
[06:06:48] <SWPadnos> yeah.
[06:07:05] <SWPadnos> a few of my friends were "Biomedical Engineering" back in the day.
[06:07:23] <A-L-P-H-A> my sisters in Cornelle for that.
[06:07:27] <A-L-P-H-A> sister's
[06:07:37] <A-L-P-H-A> the other one is doing some art degree... bah.
[06:07:44] <A-L-P-H-A> at least she has some really cute friends...
[06:07:46] <SWPadnos> I helped one make a pulse oximeter tester for her senior project.
[06:08:19] <A-L-P-H-A> :) she was cute wasn't she. :)
[06:08:39] <SWPadnos> Best friends in college
[06:24:50] <SWPadnos> night, all
[06:25:08] <paul_c> Morning !
[06:25:18] <SWPadnos> right - cheerio!
[06:26:08] <SWPadnos> One request before I go - if you come to Fest, please bring me a full English breakfast, and a Costco-sized sack of PG Tips :)
[06:26:38] <paul_c> Can't do the breakfast
[06:26:55] <paul_c> Customs your side won't let foodstufs in.
[06:26:55] <SWPadnos> (soggy beans on the plane ...)
[06:27:00] <SWPadnos> bastards
[06:27:21] <paul_c> maybe sneak a tin of spotted dick through
[06:27:22] <SWPadnos> (actually, they wouldn't let my wife bring an orange from Hawaii to the mainland ... )
[06:28:10] <A-L-P-H-A> night SWPadnos
[06:28:16] <SWPadnos> see ya
[06:28:32] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c... I DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT THAT IS.
[06:28:43] <SWPadnos> http://freespace.virgin.net/daz.bert/mirror/rudefood/food/dick.htm
[06:29:52] <SWPadnos> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2249273.stm
[06:30:24] <SWPadnos> OK - enough dick talk for me - this time I'm really going to sleep
[06:30:34] <A-L-P-H-A> evil.
[06:30:38] <A-L-P-H-A> gross either way
[06:30:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll prefer my healthy stuff
[09:36:31] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[09:36:35] <anonimasu> damn germans.
[09:58:20] <paul_c> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/4289733.stm
[09:58:31] <paul_c> * paul_c sniggers
[11:25:12] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/ (19 files in 7 dirs): A weenie bug fix and some more checks in configure - Now need ncurses installed..
[11:34:59] <paul_c> West coast is up early...
[11:35:17] <Jymmm> way too early
[11:36:30] <Jymmm> I think trying to locate a laser has be stressed out
[11:37:02] <Jymmm> Went to bed at midnight, woke up at 3am
[11:37:42] <paul_c> * paul_c has been up all night trying to work out why twiddling encoder_n should change the count on encoder_n+1
[11:38:15] <Jymmm> oh fun....
[11:39:12] <Jymmm> I'm almost tempted to get a job at a laser mfg =)
[11:40:42] <paul_c> DAC init & quit routines coded - Boy this is easy...
[11:42:04] <Jymmm> Heh, most of you guys are way over my head. Hell, I'm still trying to learn what LOGIN: is for!
[11:43:12] <paul_c> Find a copy of the Linux Cook Book
[11:45:58] <Jymmm> I kid, it's not THAT bad =)
[11:47:02] <paul_c> the LCB isn't Dummies grade - It is a useful source for intermediate & semi-advanced users
[11:47:40] <Jymmm> will check it out.
[11:47:43] <paul_c> wanna set up a multi boot system with passwd protection on which OS can be booted....
[11:48:41] <Jymmm> actually yeah
[11:49:04] <Jymmm> grub has passwd?
[11:49:33] <paul_c> Oh yes, and a few nasties (for usrs) up it's sleeve.
[11:50:16] <Jymmm> Cool, I barely know lilo.
[11:51:41] <paul_c> once you start using grub, it is very handy.... No need to re-install every time you add a new kernel.
[12:21:39] <anonimasu> grub is neat :)
[12:22:41] <anonimasu> I need to find a company to design me a amplifier..
[12:24:13] <paul_c> power, audio, servo ?
[12:24:19] <anonimasu> power..
[12:24:25] <anonimasu> from 0-10V to 0-24V
[12:24:26] <paul_c> for ?
[12:24:36] <anonimasu> for controlling a huydralic valve..
[12:24:50] <anonimasu> I cant buy anything like that since it would break the budget..
[12:24:59] <paul_c> OK, low bandwidth...
[12:25:07] <anonimasu> the price for each are about 579$
[12:25:23] <paul_c> what sort of feedback loop ?
[12:25:27] <anonimasu> none..
[12:25:31] <Jymmm> amplifer? for a valve?
[12:25:35] <anonimasu> yeah..
[12:25:41] <anonimasu> 0-10 -> 0-24
[12:25:43] <anonimasu> just a gain amp..
[12:25:43] <Jymmm> not a PSU?
[12:25:45] <anonimasu> nothing fancy..
[12:26:06] <anonimasu> the valve needs 2A at max..(failure)
[12:26:23] <anonimasu> but the 0-10v is just a couple of ma
[12:26:26] <anonimasu> err mA
[12:27:24] <anonimasu> I was going to run them PWM but I cant do that since the only pwm out I have is software out..
[12:27:40] <paul_c> sommat like a 741 with a 2n3055 o/p stage would probably do it.
[12:27:59] <anonimasu> yeah but I dont know enough to build somthing like that
[12:28:40] <anonimasu> I am not really into op-amps
[12:29:07] <Jymmm> http://www.ampslab.com/c70.htm
[12:29:08] <paul_c> maybe a better solution - Use one of the variable voltage regulators.
[12:30:19] <anonimasu> Jymmm: that's not quite what I am looking for :)
[12:30:34] <anonimasu> hm, a opamp and a mosfet would be perfect..
[12:33:23] <Jymmm> um... what's a 'chopper' board used for/purpose?
[12:33:34] <anonimasu> running steppers
[12:33:57] <Jymmm> wouldn't that be what a driver is for?
[12:34:16] <Jymmm> uni/bipolar driver I mean
[12:34:53] <anonimasu> http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/jun97/classics.html
[12:36:27] <Jymmm> http://pminmo.com/3axis/3axis.htm
[12:37:59] <anonimasu> but I cant calc the resistor values for a mosfet..
[12:38:12] <anonimasu> somone should slap me for being crappy at electronics
[12:38:34] <Jymmm> transistor biasing 101 =)
[12:38:40] <Jymmm> </smartass>
[12:39:12] <anonimasu> <link>?</link>
[12:39:52] <Jymmm> http://web.telia.com/~u85920178/begin/bias-00.htm
[12:40:02] <anonimasu> thanks! ^_^
[12:40:15] <Jymmm> http://www.google.com/search?q=transistor+biasing+&sa=Search+Google
[12:40:56] <Jymmm> anonimasu also, get the datasheet for whatever your working with and read any app notes it may have.
[12:41:49] <Jymmm> * Jymmm barely knows how to wire up a SPST switch.
[12:45:25] <Jymmm> anonimasu: did that help at all?
[12:53:05] <anonimasu> Jymmm: not really :/'
[12:53:26] <anonimasu> I'll print it and read through it
[12:53:41] <anonimasu> amplifying the voltage with a opamp shouldnt be too hard
[12:53:53] <Jymmm> get the datasheet
[12:55:45] <Jymmm> Now, if you could only use two PC power supplies to get he 24vdc
[12:55:59] <anonimasu> that's not a problem I have 24v..
[12:56:06] <Jymmm> I would SO love to be able to wire em up in series.
[12:56:21] <Jymmm> you do, I don't
[12:56:26] <anonimasu> ah..
[12:56:26] <anonimasu> yes
[12:56:27] <anonimasu> :)
[12:56:35] <Jymmm> I have 16vdc @ 30A
[12:56:41] <Jymmm> variable
[12:57:03] <anonimasu> :(
[12:57:26] <Jymmm> ?
[12:57:50] <anonimasu> AC/DC?
[12:57:54] <Jymmm> dc
[13:00:13] <Jymmm> http://www.alinco.com/Products/DM330MVE/
[13:00:57] <anonimasu> you could buy a DC > AC converter and wrie up/buy a transformer
[13:01:31] <Jymmm> I hate buying xfmr's!
[13:02:24] <Jymmm> If there was a sick and twisted circuit that could be built to isolate while still providing 24vdc @ 20A I'd be a happy camper =)
[13:02:37] <anonimasu> yeah
[13:02:53] <anonimasu> I've never seen anything like it
[13:02:55] <Jymmm> or ever four of em.... 48VDC @ 20a WOO HOO
[13:04:37] <anonimasu> yeah
[13:04:38] <anonimasu> :)
[13:04:52] <anonimasu> I need to build/buy a nice PSU someday soon
[13:05:01] <anonimasu> maybe a lab cube
[13:05:28] <Jymmm> i bought that one to power my radio. MORE POWER UG UG UG
[13:08:14] <anonimasu> hehe
[13:08:18] <anonimasu> they have no limit
[13:08:20] <anonimasu> a:D
[13:08:37] <Jymmm> heh
[13:13:06] <Jymmm> I'm looking at a schematic of a controller board and find it kinda funny that a parallel port has just enough I/O to do 2 axis + limit switches.
[13:13:14] <Jymmm> 3 axis
[13:14:35] <paul_c> err... 6 axis if you use step/dir
[13:15:38] <Jymmm> x_step x_dir you mean?
[13:16:00] <paul_c> yes
[13:16:13] <Jymmm> http://pminmo.com/3axis/OS3schematic.pdf
[13:16:20] <Jymmm> is what I'm looking at.
[13:29:41] <anonimasu> I solved it.
[13:29:42] <anonimasu> heh
[14:24:10] <jepler> Jymmm: unipolar, full-stepping, L/R drive? It's not going to be a high-performance system.
[14:30:32] <jepler> Jymmm: you'll be happier with a board like http://www.pminmo.com/l297-8/l297-8.htm (bipolar, half-stepping, chopper) but it will cost a little more
[14:40:48] <cradek> IMO, a driver that does full-stepping only is not worth building. It just doesn't work very well.
[14:44:12] <narnia> knock, knock, anyone home.
[14:56:40] <rayh> Hi Terry
[14:56:58] <narnia> rayh, i just sent you an e-mail.
[14:57:39] <rayh> Okay. I'm in the midst of a new build and don't have my default mailer running.
[14:58:00] <narnia> rayh, the past 12 days have been difficult.
[14:58:03] <paul_c> Yo Folks
[14:58:14] <rayh> Seems like I need a hardware modem.
[14:58:29] <narnia> ray_h, i will paste the e-mail into a private message to you if that is okay with you.
[14:58:43] <rayh> you bet.
[14:59:12] <narnia> sorry i have not been in the #emc channel. the past 12 days have been
[14:59:12] <narnia> hard. on 11 feb 2005, my friend and companion for 12 yrs and daily companion
[14:59:12] <narnia> for 8 of those years died. huckleberry finn, huck for short, my dog.
[14:59:13] <narnia> the oldest daughter moved back home, she is unemployed at the moment.
[14:59:15] <narnia> my son moved back home, his marriage is crumbling.
[14:59:17] <narnia> with huck being gone, my 24/7 pain became unmanageable. the doctors said;
[14:59:19] <narnia> "you choice narcotic painkillers, oxycodone, or other dog. choice is yours."
[14:59:23] <narnia> so yesterday, 22 feb 2005, i picked up a new medical service dog. so
[14:59:25] <narnia> i am getting use to him and he is getting use to me.
[14:59:27] <narnia> i have not been able to do much of anything on the computers the past
[14:59:29] <narnia> 12 days. today is the first time i am sending out e-mails and answering e-mails.
[14:59:31] <narnia> i am planning on getting back into the swing of things next week. i hope and
[14:59:33] <narnia> pray that things will have settled down here by then.
[14:59:35] <narnia> ray, would you happen to have fred proctor's e-mail address?
[15:27:09] <rayh> Yes I do. it's Fred Proctor Fred Proctor <frederick.proctor (put that sign here) nist.gov>
[15:39:17] <paul_c> * paul_c returns
[15:42:36] <paul_c> Slowly getting ths Sensoray driver working....
[15:43:23] <rayh> You got a pc104 motherboard
[15:43:43] <paul_c> a board that takes pc104 cards.
[15:43:52] <rayh> okay.
[15:43:59] <rayh> ISA?
[15:44:08] <paul_c> � length ISA
[15:45:48] <rayh> * rayh is going down for modem tests.
[15:49:25] <anonimasu> :)
[16:22:31] <alex_joni> greetings
[16:24:32] <paul_c> Afternoon Alex
[16:24:36] <alex_joni> hey paul
[16:25:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is actually a very tired version of the old alex_joni
[16:25:53] <alex_joni> paul_c: would another mirror be of any help?
[16:26:18] <alex_joni> I mean.. I installed a new machine (to replace later on, hope it will be this week, dsplabs)
[16:26:35] <alex_joni> till then it can be accessible as another machine name...
[16:26:51] <paul_c> Another mirror would be good - Sherline isn't always up 24/7
[16:27:13] <alex_joni> I just got an ideea
[16:27:19] <paul_c> and there may come a time when they want to reduce the amount of space used by us.
[16:27:27] <alex_joni> I'll put the other ISO's on the second machine
[16:27:32] <alex_joni> and make a simple webpage
[16:27:37] <alex_joni> so users won't notice
[16:27:43] <alex_joni> how does this sound?
[16:28:34] <paul_c> Sounds good
[16:29:06] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc
[16:29:22] <cradek> pictures of my milling machine and other stuff
[16:29:31] <cradek> beware, it's a very new, unpolished site.
[16:37:08] <alex_joni> cradek: I bookmarked it ;)
[16:37:25] <cradek> that must mean you found it a little interesting
[16:37:39] <alex_joni> "little" ? ;)
[16:37:45] <alex_joni> it's great
[16:37:45] <cradek> it's just a start. I have a lot of things to share that I've been putting off.
[16:38:13] <cradek> I want to fully show how I make circuit boards for one thing
[16:40:53] <alex_joni> cradek: what I miss are some pics of done PCB's
[16:41:11] <alex_joni> right.. I'm heading home
[16:41:13] <cradek> yes, I'll definitely add that
[16:41:21] <alex_joni> had some rough days
[16:41:23] <alex_joni> bye
[17:21:00] <Jymmm> cradek: Your site really sucks! Should I go look at it now?
[17:23:45] <Jymmm> =)
[17:24:28] <jepler> there are some photos of PCBs made on chris's maxnc on pages of mine: http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/etchcnc http://craie.unpy.net/aether/index.cgi/01109127822
[17:25:41] <jepler> (excuse my lousy soldering, especially on the second page)
[17:25:53] <cradek> hmm, maybe you should take pictures pre-soldering
[17:26:12] <jepler> the etchcnc page has a pre-soldering photo .. the board looks sooo good
[17:26:33] <jepler> cradek: be sure to add gcode.ulp to your website soon, too. (unless you figure it's my baby, in which case I'll put it on craie)
[17:26:55] <Jymmm> I love the etchaCNC - that's cool!
[17:27:04] <jepler> Jymmm: thanks -- it was a fun project
[17:27:06] <cradek> jepler: I think I'll put it on mine - but I'll sure mention that you rewrote it half a dozen times
[17:27:45] <cradek> jepler: I think all that stuff about PCBs should be together.
[17:28:48] <jepler> cradek: is there a license on gcode.ulp yet?
[17:28:55] <cradek> no
[17:29:00] <cradek> nor on max.lsp
[17:29:16] <jepler> for gcode.ulp how do you feel about (C) 2005 you, me, GPL?
[17:29:32] <cradek> sure, whatever
[17:29:40] <Jymmm> s/gpl/bsd/ =)
[17:32:37] <jepler> * jepler shrugs.
[17:33:01] <Jymmm> dont listen to me on licensing, I just like bsd
[17:33:16] <jepler> and I just prefer GPL -- but above all I don't want to argue that one is better than the other.
[17:34:11] <jepler> in some absolute sense
[17:34:12] <cradek> Jymmm: you certainly should use it for code you give away then.
[17:35:10] <Jymmm> like I said "dont listen to me..." =)
[17:35:20] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/ (drivers/sensoray/sensoray526.c motion/emcprocfs.c): DAC code finished for the 526 - Next, the DIO routines (and maybe ADC functions).
[17:37:04] <Jymmm> jepler: so that pcb was milled out? if you look at it in a angle does it still look clean?
[17:37:14] <paul_c> A huge number of IO pins on that card - I really don't know how I'm going to use them all.
[17:39:26] <jepler> Jymmm: what do you mean by "clean"? The copper that was not milled away is still very clean and shiny, and the fiberglass is pretty smooth where the copper's been milled away
[17:40:20] <Jymmm> jepler: ok, cool... so it "looks" professional enough to sell if you wanted to?
[17:41:05] <Jymmm> jepler: I've seen some I wouldn't trust a resistor to by looks alone, thought functionallly perfect.
[17:41:08] <jepler> oh, probably -- but it takes a fair amount of time to mill a board
[17:41:44] <Jymmm> jepler: beats wiring by hand =)
[17:41:58] <jepler> I'd still go to a boardhouse if I planned to sell many units
[17:42:00] <paul_c> good excuse for ground planes
[17:43:30] <jepler> lunchtime
[17:43:39] <Jymmm> jepler: yeah but nice for testing or one-poff's
[17:43:49] <Jymmm> off's
[18:12:59] <rayh> Hey!
[18:15:36] <paul_c> Hi Ray.
[18:16:41] <rayh> Hi Paul. Made one hardware modem from three.
[18:16:53] <rayh> This is 4.14
[18:18:15] <paul_c> The disk arrived safely then.
[18:18:55] <rayh> Yes it did. I installed it as a second or third boot and tested the sherline.
[18:19:16] <rayh> Now I'm working on it as a replacement for knoppix.
[18:19:46] <rayh> Just started an apt-get update
[18:20:35] <rayh> What do I need to update to version 4.17
[18:20:47] <SWPadnos> is there a 4.17 now?
[18:21:19] <rayh> Just heard about it myself.
[18:21:33] <SWPadnos> bummer - I just got 4.16 2 days ago
[18:23:14] <rayh> Bummer bummer I'm just setting up 14.
[18:23:52] <paul_c> when I start on 4.17, it will probably be documentation and EMC upgrades.
[18:24:11] <SWPadnos> yeat - that or menu icons or something
[18:24:17] <paul_c> Maybe a few tweaks to the package list, but nothing major.
[18:24:58] <paul_c> Upgrading from a 4.14 install wil be easy - No need to re-install..
[18:25:06] <paul_c> just a simple
[18:25:15] <paul_c> apt-get upgrade
[18:25:26] <SWPadnos> paul_c: is there a place where I can see a list of the packages included in the BDI?
[18:25:31] <paul_c> (after doing a "apt-cdrom add")
[18:25:53] <paul_c> /root/install.log
[18:26:20] <SWPadnos> Is that a complete list of packages included on the CD?
[18:28:28] <paul_c> It should be.
[18:28:47] <paul_c> or you can use Synaptic.
[18:28:52] <rayh> ?? /root/install.log
[18:29:14] <paul_c> from memory, I think that is the file.
[18:29:23] <SWPadnos> I thought that would be the list of packages installed (which may be the same list :) )
[18:30:12] <paul_c> two sections to the list - first, the packages that have been installed, then the ones that haven't.
[18:30:39] <rayh> synaptic is working here now so I dare not apt anything.
[18:31:55] <paul_c> Synaptic is just a pretty front-end to apt.
[18:33:14] <rayh> Yep. For those of us that are text mode challenged.
[18:34:05] <paul_c> apt is good when you know exactly what package needs to be installed....
[18:34:33] <paul_c> synaptic when you want to browse the list available.
[18:35:36] <rayh> And see at a glance what has been upgraded from what you've got.
[18:36:38] <rayh> Now that I've got life with 4.14, what must I add to compile?
[18:37:05] <rayh> and how BIG will it be?
[18:38:17] <paul_c> lemme boot the test box up and I'll give you a number.
[18:38:54] <rayh> Thanks
[18:40:39] <rayh> I installed all 526 from the cd.
[18:41:39] <paul_c> 22Meg (21 if you skip manpages-dev)
[18:42:45] <paul_c> Hmmm.... Might be able to squeeze some, if not all, of it on to the one CD...
[18:43:26] <paul_c> Drop a couple of the eye-candy packages, and it may be do-able.
[18:44:10] <SWPadnos> that's what I wanted to look at in the package list
[18:44:19] <SWPadnos> it didn't seem like the dev tools were that big
[18:44:41] <SWPadnos> (plus, the CD is only 678M, there's another 20-30 that should be squeezable)
[18:46:00] <SWPadnos> OK - so how do I kill EMC from the command line (AXIS dies, and isn't killable)
[18:46:10] <SWPadnos> (from the window controls, that is)
[18:46:20] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, called vexta motors, and clearified with them. The motor is pentagon wiring.
[18:46:39] <SWPadnos> OK - should be more like the Tamagawa system, then
[18:46:55] <SWPadnos> that one has a 10-step and a 20-step drive
[18:46:57] <SWPadnos> pattern
[18:48:29] <paul_c> with some adjustments (package upgrades on the CD), another 17Megs should be enough.
[18:49:03] <paul_c> currently, the CD is 647Megs
[18:49:14] <SWPadnos> mega vs. mibi bytes ...
[18:49:17] <A-L-P-H-A> just use 700 meg CDs. :)
[18:55:39] <paul_c> ?me wonder's if rayh want's to talk IO cards....
[18:56:49] <rayh> Um yep.
[18:57:10] <rayh> * rayh gets a cup of coffee -- back in 2 min
[18:57:40] <paul_c> This 526 card - Loads of IO to use for switches & enables....
[18:59:24] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns..
[19:01:47] <rayh> How many pins do you get with that?
[19:01:59] <paul_c> loads....
[19:02:01] <paul_c> 8
[19:02:31] <paul_c> and a relay that can be hooked to a watchdog timer
[19:03:54] <paul_c> was thinking four inputs for Amp, home, limit & e-stop
[19:04:19] <A-L-P-H-A> Anyone got any spare servos or motors kicking around they want to sell? 100oz/in to 250oz/in?
[19:04:34] <paul_c> Nothing that small.
[19:04:46] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, what do you have?
[19:05:07] <paul_c> SEM MT30
[19:05:49] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, how much?
[19:07:23] <paul_c> to be honest, I got them as spares for my little mill, just in case the new amps are not up to driving the originals.
[19:08:05] <A-L-P-H-A> well... I'm looking to do something with my stuff currently.
[19:08:38] <paul_c> Shipping would be the killer from here.
[19:10:51] <rayh> I've got smaller (45 oz/in) and bigger (500 watt and 3500 watt)
[19:12:58] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got 40-50 oz/in steppers already. My fist is bigger than them.
[19:13:04] <paul_c> roughly 6Kgs each, and 800oz-in (min) stall torque
[19:13:23] <rayh> Trying to look at the sensoray page 208 B/sec
[19:14:33] <rayh> I was thinking servos.
[19:15:34] <paul_c> The IO can be configured as 8 in, or 8 out, or 4 in + 4 out
[19:16:25] <rayh> What do you have in mind to apply this board to?
[19:16:27] <paul_c> At least the index pulse is routed through the counter chip, so that frees up some of the IO
[19:17:08] <paul_c> Going to use this card on a lathe
[19:18:25] <rayh> Could you use the 8 analog in for input signals?
[19:18:57] <paul_c> it would be slow...
[19:19:11] <A-L-P-H-A> 16 oz in an inch right?
[19:19:13] <A-L-P-H-A> err
[19:19:16] <A-L-P-H-A> 16 oz in an lb right?
[19:19:43] <paul_c> 25�Sec per conversion, and only one channel at a time.
[19:20:23] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: Last time I had to use pounds, 16oz
[19:20:51] <A-L-P-H-A> thanks.
[19:20:56] <rayh> A: Unless it's gold.
[19:20:57] <SWPadnos> A-L-P-H-A: how about Baldor 50 oz-in, 5000RPM motors?
[19:21:17] <SWPadnos> Right - they did things differently in Troy
[19:21:22] <alex_joni> greetings
[19:21:33] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, oh....? :) how much?
[19:21:42] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, shipping would be to Toronto, Canada btw.
[19:22:07] <SWPadnos> Depends on whether or not you want the encoders :)
[19:22:35] <SWPadnos> (I'd like to keep them as spares for my bigger motors - 1000CPR / 4000PPR)
[19:22:53] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... that really depends... I may want that as a spindle motor for my highspeed spindle.
[19:23:03] <A-L-P-H-A> drive it as 3:1, get 15K rpm.
[19:23:09] <rayh> Hi Alex.
[19:23:17] <SWPadnos> and 16.67 oz-in :(
[19:23:18] <alex_joni> hey Ray
[19:23:28] <A-L-P-H-A> but 50oz/in maybe a little weak... but then again, it is only turning a 0.5 to 1mm dia endmill.
[19:23:36] <alex_joni> long time no see... (I've been busy welding... )
[19:25:49] <rayh> what you welding up?
[19:26:17] <alex_joni> we delivered 2 robots to a customer (makes parts for caterpillar)
[19:26:56] <alex_joni> pretty big stuff...
[19:35:55] <alex_joni> paul_c: seen you've been busy ;)
[19:45:38] <paul_c> You've just seen the comit logs ?
[19:47:39] <alex_joni> lots of them ;)
[19:47:48] <alex_joni> what card is that you wrote the driver for?
[19:48:27] <paul_c> Been extending the configure script in the process.... You might want to look at some of the changes I've made.
[19:48:45] <paul_c> http://www.sensoray.com/html/526data.htm
[19:48:47] <alex_joni> I might.. but right now I can barely watch the screen
[19:49:29] <rayh> * rayh is going off-line for a bit.
[19:49:43] <alex_joni> bye Ray
[19:50:01] <paul_c> * paul_c is going to get some more food in a min.
[19:50:08] <rayh> catch you later if this takes a long time.
[19:50:30] <alex_joni> right
[19:53:46] <alex_joni> paul_c: nice looking card... expensive?
[19:54:22] <alex_joni> bugger me.. just read at the end of the page ;)
[19:54:28] <paul_c> Not too bad in comparison to some.
[19:54:34] <alex_joni> 500$ .. seems fair
[19:54:52] <paul_c> $466 in one off quantities.
[19:55:14] <paul_c> back in ten - Food.
[19:55:30] <alex_joni> right
[19:56:21] <alex_joni> how do the ADC's and DAC's behave?
[19:56:21] <alex_joni> noisy?
[19:56:21] <alex_joni> or ok?
[19:56:47] <alex_joni> * alex_joni found some eyedrops
[19:59:13] <alex_joni> enjoy...
[19:59:17] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.spywareguide.com/product_show.php?id=732 "Please... Don't block our ads! (Or turn off JavaScript to kill the puppy)"
[19:59:20] <alex_joni> I think I'll go to sleep
[19:59:49] <alex_joni> paul_c: seen the ncurses add to configure, looks nice
[20:00:16] <SWPadnos> If anyone's looking for specific PC/104 stuff or other embedded things, let me know and I'll look for them at ESC sSan Francisco
[20:00:52] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has an ethernut with PC104 ;)
[20:01:45] <alex_joni> bye guys
[20:02:08] <SWPadnos> see ya
[20:03:57] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, remember you stating that I should kill the current to the steppers if they aren't moving. How would they have any holding torque if I don't have them on?
[20:04:26] <SWPadnos> Hw will they have any holding torque once they melt?
[20:04:30] <SWPadnos> (how)
[20:04:36] <A-L-P-H-A> true.
[20:05:02] <SWPadnos> You need to reduce the average voltage to a level at or below the nameplate voltage
[20:05:10] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... so using the coils an an anology to an LED... could I protect it by putting on a decent wattage resistor to the coils?
[20:05:43] <SWPadnos> Yes, but that effectively reduces your supply voltage, so you might as well just use a smaller supply
[20:06:41] <SWPadnos> just free thinking here (about curent limiting)
[20:07:07] <SWPadnos> with a bigger AVR (one with more interrupts), you could have a current sense resistor attached to each leg.
[20:07:48] <SWPadnos> If the current gets too high, an interrupt tells the AVR to shut off that motor for some amount of time
[20:07:59] <SWPadnos> you'd essentially be implementing a chopper in software
[20:08:07] <SWPadnos> sort of
[20:08:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I guess I need to know what a chopper does. or even what a halfbridge is.
[20:08:53] <A-L-P-H-A> my electronics knowledge is limited.
[20:09:26] <SWPadnos> a half-bridge allows you to either leave the output unconnected, connect it to ground, or connect it to supply voltage
[20:09:47] <SWPadnos> It's possible to get away without the "off" state (the Geckos do this, apparently)
[20:10:27] <SWPadnos> at least, the G3xx do, I'm not sure about the G2xx
[20:10:39] <A-L-P-H-A> so kinda like a tristate.
[20:10:46] <SWPadnos> A chopper always puts power to the coil - it just changes the amount of time it's on versus off
[20:11:00] <A-L-P-H-A> ahh... so PWM?
[20:11:05] <SWPadnos> yes
[20:11:20] <A-L-P-H-A> that's how the linstep thing goes I believe.
[20:11:35] <SWPadnos> sorry - that's always on forward or on reverse - 50% forward + 50% reverse averages to 0
[20:12:15] <SWPadnos> if you need a small forward effective voltage, you go 51/49 or more, and the average creeps up
[20:12:27] <A-L-P-H-A> chopper = PWM... Halfbridge is then like a tristate? Like how that Starpatterned 5phase motor diagram was wired? with 2 transistors to each phase?
[20:12:58] <SWPadnos> yes - chopper = pwm (I think - I'm not an expert in this area of electronics)
[20:13:14] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, ahh... so like at 75/25 it'd be moving one direction at half speed? 25/75 reverse same speed?
[20:13:31] <A-L-P-H-A> 100/0 full speed one dir. 0/100 fullspeed other dir?
[20:13:35] <SWPadnos> half-bridge may be fwd/rev or fwd/off/rev - depends on the control circuit
[20:13:40] <SWPadnos> yes on the ratios
[20:13:53] <SWPadnos> at least for DC servos
[20:14:07] <jepler> chopper is a way to make current rise faster without exceeding nameplate limits.
[20:14:18] <SWPadnos> current limiting complicates things a bit
[20:14:20] <A-L-P-H-A> that's neat... so 50/50 would be standing still. But that's like 50/50 as -VDC and +VDC.
[20:14:25] <SWPadnos> right
[20:15:05] <SWPadnos> that's why you need a bridge - to reverse polarity in the coil
[20:15:12] <SWPadnos> (H-bridge, that is)
[20:15:20] <A-L-P-H-A> btw, this is now just for learning sake... I know I don't have the expertises to make one... but just to know how it works is good to learn.
[20:17:20] <SWPadnos> look at Mariss' paper called Topologies.pdf (I think - that's what it is on my machine)