#emc | Logs for 2005-02-21

[00:00:22] <SWPLinux> OK - that didn't do it, so I did the rm -Rf src/ / cvs up -dP trick, which also didn't get the changes
[00:01:32] <paul_c> are you using an anymous checkout ?
[00:01:38] <SWPLinux> no
[00:03:01] <jmkasunich> sure you have the right branch?
[00:03:09] <SWPLinux> pretty sure - the CVS/* files show Tbdi-4
[00:05:05] <SWPLinux> how fast is the sourceforge web CVS interface updates (or is it realtime)?
[00:05:05] <SWPLinux> that shows 20 hours since the last commit on bdi-4
[00:05:19] <SWPLinux> (or 7 or 8 hours on some stuff in src/)
[00:05:56] <paul_c> the cvsweb page can be 24 hours or more behind
[00:06:13] <SWPLinux> OK - that takes care of that
[00:06:33] <SWPLinux> I assume you're updating the bdi-4 branch
[00:08:23] <paul_c> cvs -q status src/Makefile
[00:08:48] <paul_c> should report version:
[00:09:04] <SWPLinux> well - I get
[00:09:33] <SWPLinux> I probably need to use the "overwrite local changes with this update" flag when updating.
[00:09:45] <SWPLinux> (whatever that is :) )
[00:10:20] <SWPLinux> aha - -C
[00:11:37] <jmkasunich> latest toy: http://home.att.net/~jmkasunich/Pics/miniservo1.jpg
[00:11:48] <jmkasunich> also miniservo2 and 3.jpg
[00:13:11] <Jymmm> where did you pick that up from?
[00:13:11] <jmkasunich> dumpster - part of an Exabyte tape backup unit
[00:15:06] <Jymmm> damn
[00:15:06] <jmkasunich> ray's right, it would make a nice little gantry
[00:15:06] <jmkasunich> put a moving table under it
[00:15:06] <Jymmm> Z axis
[00:15:06] <Jymmm> how wide?
[00:15:10] <jmkasunich> the longer axis travels about 11", the shorter one about 3.3" or so
[00:15:45] <Jymmm> bummer... looks like it was ~30" which would have been great
[00:16:09] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Now, where was this dumpster at? =)
[00:16:16] <jmkasunich> I did say "mini" servo ;-)
[00:16:19] <jmkasunich> work
[00:16:55] <Jymmm> lat/lon ?
[00:18:03] <Jymmm> I'm in the process of planning out a cnc router, so any ideas parts are always a good thing =_
[00:18:08] <Jymmm> =)
[00:18:29] <SWPLinux> Hmmm.... I just deleted the entire emc2 tree, and re-CO'ed it, and the Makefile is still version
[00:19:04] <jmkasunich> cleveland ohio - but it's not really a dumpster (as in outdoors), it's the loading dock where things are staged before they get hauled away (so not accessible from outside)
[00:19:04] <jmkasunich> the big screw is about 6.7 turns per inch
[00:19:11] <jmkasunich> (probably metric)
[00:19:15] <Jymmm> I'm in silicon valley, but no clue where to salvage things like that... just like your place 'indoors'
[00:19:41] <Jymmm> * Jymmm has ZERO problem dumpster diving for stuff like that.
[00:19:53] <SWPLinux> Try to find out before March 5 - I'm heading to SF then, and I'd love to bring back a bunch of stuff :)
[00:20:16] <Jymmm> will do
[00:20:21] <SWPLinux> than you
[00:20:22] <jmkasunich> my problem is that I grab anything that looks good, until I can barely turn around in my basement
[00:20:24] <SWPLinux> thank
[00:20:38] <SWPLinux> who needs space anyway?
[00:20:50] <Jymmm> the problem is I couldn't even find cardboard boxes the last time I looked around town. sad huh?
[00:21:09] <SWPLinux> I bet you can find coffee and Sushi though :)
[00:21:51] <Jymmm> shit.... there are Starbucks on opposite corners here.
[00:21:51] <jmkasunich> yuppieville?
[00:21:51] <Jymmm> within 800' of each other
[00:21:57] <Jymmm> and they BOTH get heavy business
[00:22:32] <SWPLinux> Yeah - that's a bummer. We have 4 in town now.
[00:22:32] <jmkasunich> where are you SWP?
[00:22:32] <SWPLinux> The local places still do pretty well, even with SB across the street
[00:22:32] <SWPLinux> Burlington, VT (Essex junction, actually)
[00:23:24] <jmkasunich> oh, for some reason I thought you were out west
[00:23:24] <jmkasunich> what's it like up there right now? snowing?
[00:23:24] <SWPLinux> I'm well west of Maine. The West Coast of New England, actually :)
[00:23:35] <SWPLinux> not snowing now, but it only got up to 17 degrees today
[00:23:40] <jmkasunich> brrrr
[00:23:44] <jmkasunich> 30 here
[00:23:51] <jmkasunich> and snowing
[00:23:56] <SWPLinux> yes. and my downstairs heater has been awaiting service for 2.5 months
[00:24:09] <jmkasunich> sucks
[00:24:15] <jmkasunich> sniff, sniff.....
[00:24:15] <SWPLinux> (during the January from hell freezing over - never above 5 degrees)
[00:24:20] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich smells food
[00:24:31] <SWPLinux> I'm still full from Brunch
[00:24:36] <jmkasunich> time for dinner I think
[00:24:39] <SWPLinux> (6 hours ago)
[00:24:41] <jmkasunich> (I skipped lunch)
[00:25:05] <Jymmm> well it's 62 outside and I'm in shorts and a tshirt =)
[00:25:09] <SWPLinux> dick
[00:25:12] <Jymmm> lol
[00:25:25] <Jymmm> did I mention barefoot too?
[00:25:31] <SWPLinux> Pregnant?
[00:25:43] <Jymmm> sorry, no ice cream and pickles
[00:25:56] <SWPLinux> Ah - I see.
[00:26:26] <SWPLinux> Well - as I said - I'll be out in SF for Embedded Systems Conference in 2 weeks. I should get some reprieve then.
[00:27:20] <paul_c> hmmm... deleted src and did an update - Makefile is
[00:27:34] <roel1> im off cu next time folks
[00:27:35] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Marconi Center?
[00:27:44] <SWPLinux> Yes (Moscone)
[00:27:52] <Jymmm> oh yeah,,,, that
[00:27:54] <Jymmm> lol
[00:28:01] <Jymmm> I hate that place
[00:28:15] <SWPLinux> Yes - especially as an exhibitor (which I'm not this time)
[00:28:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos well, pick me up some samples
[00:28:33] <SWPLinux> At least there's the House of Prime Rib. Yummmmm
[00:34:05] <jmkasunich> hmm... metric... 4mm pitch on the big screw, 3:1 belt reduction
[00:34:16] <jmkasunich> so 1.333 mm/rev of the motor
[00:34:35] <jmkasunich> 512CPR encoder
[00:34:45] <Jymmm> 512?
[00:34:56] <jmkasunich> yep
[00:35:06] <jmkasunich> .0026mm resolution
[00:35:09] <Jymmm> kinda cool, unusual, but cool
[00:35:20] <jmkasunich> not that uncommon
[00:35:48] <jmkasunich> ~0.0001" - finer than I expected
[00:35:50] <Jymmm> 1024 would have been my guess after 256
[00:36:33] <Jymmm> those bit converving bastards!
[00:37:11] <jmkasunich> 1024 is probably a little too fine for such a small diameter wheel
[00:37:35] <Jymmm> yeah
[00:38:36] <jmkasunich> hmmm... small screw seems to be 0.250" pitch, I was expecting it to be metric too
[00:38:50] <Jymmm> oh mixed... yuck
[00:39:09] <Jymmm> Anyone have any links to deisgn concept for Z axis ?
[00:39:10] <jmkasunich> they're just numbers ;-)
[00:40:07] <Jymmm> XY I get, just not Z
[00:40:17] <jmkasunich> what do you mean?
[00:41:15] <Jymmm> Ok, as example.... if you mount a 8 lbs router on one side of the gantry, I would think the weight would sorta bind the motion.
[00:42:04] <Jymmm> I hope that makes sense.
[00:42:04] <SWPLinux> if it's a concern, then run dual screws, one on each side.
[00:42:44] <SWPLinux> you can drive them both with belts, and avoid the complexity of synchronizing multiple motors
[00:43:09] <jmkasunich> dual screws sounds like overkill for a Z tho
[00:43:20] <jmkasunich> just keep the screw as close as possible to the centerline of the router
[00:43:39] <SWPLinux> true - I thought the question was about X or Y
[00:43:53] <jmkasunich> and design the guide system (rails, whatever) to minimize tipping
[00:43:57] <Jymmm> no, no, I'm saying this wrong... I mean the wight of the router would prematurly wear whatever bearings there are (a la poor design)
[00:44:31] <SWPLinux> right - the screw and router move as a single unit on a frame.
[00:44:47] <Jymmm> not the screw... the guides
[00:44:57] <SWPLinux> You would need to use bearings that can handle 8 pounds.
[00:44:57] <jmkasunich> the bearings need to be designed to take the load
[00:45:04] <SWPLinux> it's hard to fine ones that don't.
[00:45:14] <jmkasunich> the bearings should be spread apart too
[00:45:49] <Jymmm> to keep them more aligned (so to speak) ?
[00:45:50] <jmkasunich> if the load is overhung by 10", that is 80 in-lbs of torque trying to bind it up
[00:46:05] <SWPLinux> use a counterweight.
[00:46:29] <jmkasunich> this is really hard to explain without being able to draw a picture (and dinner is now ready)
[00:46:29] <SWPLinux> The Z drive motor can be mounted on the back side to counterbalance the router
[00:46:38] <jmkasunich> so I'm gone for a bit
[00:46:43] <SWPLinux> see ya
[00:46:44] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk_away
[00:47:17] <Jymmm> SWPLinux for get the motor.... lets say this was completely by hand...
[00:47:32] <SWPLinux> How are you considering the X and Y axes?
[00:47:54] <SWPLinux> I'd assume a frame that moves the long way, with a carriage on it that moves the short way.
[00:47:55] <Jymmm> they are flat... bearing on top of guide...
[00:48:02] <Jymmm> XY that is
[00:48:03] <SWPLinux> on the carriage is the Z system
[00:48:07] <Jymmm> right
[00:48:19] <SWPLinux> Then where's the torque?
[00:48:25] <SWPLinux> (from overhang)
[00:48:34] <Jymmm> on the Z
[00:48:52] <Jymmm> let me back up....
[00:49:08] <SWPLinux> no - I mean, what aspect of the system makes you want to put the router 10 inches from the Y rail?
[00:49:51] <Jymmm> clearnace for say a large jewelry box
[00:50:36] <SWPLinux> The router bit should always be below the rail/carriage - you shouldn't need to hang the router for that
[00:51:17] <SWPLinux> If you need 12 inches of Z travel, then the rail that supports the Z carriage needs to be more than 12 inches above the bed.
[00:52:03] <Jymmm> right, but the high I raise the Z, the more excess laod there is too
[00:52:07] <Jymmm> load
[00:52:25] <SWPLinux> no - there shouldn't be (except for the added weight of the support pillars)
[00:52:31] <Jymmm> I'm just trying the graps the macheancil motion consepts on how to minimize that.
[00:54:33] <Jymmm> I mean if I rasi the z to 60" and if I fubared, the 8 pound router will be binding a whole lot !
[00:54:44] <SWPadnos> look at this item http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3873284615
[00:55:08] <Jymmm> k
[00:56:31] <paul_c> OK... bdi-4.16 is in the process of being uploaded.
[00:56:49] <SWPadnos> What are the primary changes?
[00:57:14] <paul_c> latest Synergy package.
[00:57:23] <SWPadnos> OK.
[00:58:03] <SWPadnos> I tried deleting all of emc2 and re-checking out, also deleting src/ and updating, etc. I always end up with for the Makefile version.
[00:58:38] <paul_c> what incantation are you using for a checkout ?
[00:59:13] <paul_c> cat CVS/Root
[00:59:46] <paul_c> that should tell us what usr you used for the initial checkout.
[00:59:52] <SWPLinux> :pserver:swpadnos@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc
[01:00:44] <SWPLinux> then co -Pr bdi-4 emc2
[01:01:16] <SWPLinux> for updates, cvs update -dP -C src/
[01:08:38] <paul_c> no idea why you should be getting an old version....
[01:09:07] <SWPadnos> me either. I may try doing an anonymous checkout, and see what happens with that.
[01:09:35] <paul_c> Hangon.... I see the prob.
[01:09:44] <SWPadnos> hanging
[01:09:48] <paul_c> You used pserver
[01:09:53] <paul_c> try:
[01:10:15] <paul_c> cvs -d:ext:swpadnos@.....
[01:11:14] <SWPadnos> well - I would, if my keyboard were working properly...
[01:12:23] <paul_c> can't help with hardware errors.
[01:12:40] <SWPLinux> nope - just one shell is locked up.
[01:13:03] <SWPLinux> still takes anything other than normal characters (Alt, pg-up/down, etc are working, but I can't type)
[01:15:20] <SWPLinux> much better - I see the changes now
[01:15:45] <SWPLinux> Regarding BDI - do you know roughly how many downloads the mirrors get per month?
[01:16:11] <paul_c> nope
[01:16:46] <paul_c> I know Sherline were hitting nearly 1TBytes per month at one point.
[01:16:46] <SWPLinux> fair enough. How about the main repository? I may be able to set up a mirror, but I don't want to go over my bandwidth allotment.
[01:17:17] <SWPLinux> I imagine it goes up when there's a significant event (like post-fest, or at a new release)
[01:17:23] <paul_c> what sort of bandwidth do you have ?
[01:18:52] <SWPLinux> 192GB/month
[01:19:21] <paul_c> To be honest, I couldn't tell you anything about the download stats....
[01:19:35] <SWPLinux> I'll ask one of the mirror operators
[01:19:44] <paul_c> 192GB/mo - Is that on a 1Mbit connection ?
[01:20:08] <SWPLinux> many megabits, I think. it's with http://www.dreamhost.com, the code monster (tripled) plan
[01:24:09] <SWPLinux> OK - I just had a successful checkou and build.
[01:24:43] <SWPLinux> there were a bunch of warnings like "*** Warning: "rt_task_delete" [/Project/EMC/emc2/src/freqmod.ko] undefined!"
[01:25:00] <SWPLinux> Now all I have to do is make the USC driver work :)
[01:25:08] <paul_c> Did you read the message printed by configure ?
[01:25:23] <SWPLinux> um - no, not really
[01:25:35] <SWPLinux> (youmean the flashing red one?)
[01:26:39] <SWPLinux> oh - that one. Yeah - I figured the warnings were no real problem
[01:28:40] <paul_c> the warnings about unresolved symbols is probably the one reason that puts me off committing 2.6 stuff...
[01:29:07] <SWPLinux> yeah - they would be disconcerting for the average user.
[01:29:39] <SWPLinux> Are they showing up because the RT "control" system is compiled separately from the low-level drivers?
[01:29:50] <SWPLinux> (and linked at insmod time)
[01:31:03] <SWPLinux> You know - I don't remember seeing that type of warning when compiling RTAI, and that makes modules for the testsuite.
[01:31:16] <SWPLinux> maybe there's something to be learned from their make system
[01:31:38] <SWPLinux> (which I noticed uses KBuild and {menu,x,qt}config)
[01:33:37] <jmk_away> jmk_away is now known as jmkasunich
[01:33:44] <paul_c> if/when emc reaches the stage where it needs to use a GUI configuration for the build system, it is time to rethink everything.
[01:34:51] <SWPLinux> Well - there is one advantage: the user could deselect any drivers they don't need, so broken drivers won't kill everyone's build.
[01:35:28] <SWPLinux> (so you could just dump the old version of some driver in there, and disable it by default, and nobody with out that hardware suffers)
[01:40:02] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/Makefile: Add a big warning note to the module rule - I do NOT want to be dealing with false bug reports about *** Warning
[01:40:36] <paul_c> SWPLinux: You'll like that addition ;)
[01:41:11] <SWPLinux> looks good to me :)
[01:41:27] <SWPadnos> and me :o)
[01:41:44] <paul_c> and jmkasunich ?
[01:42:03] <SWPLinux> this 2 keyboard/2 mouse/3 monitor/2 computer thing can get a little much at times)
[01:42:30] <SWPLinux> (one monitor with 2 switched inputs)
[01:42:42] <paul_c> * paul_c had 5 monitors at one point....
[01:42:51] <paul_c> now back to three
[01:42:52] <SWPLinux> * SWPLinux drools
[01:43:11] <paul_c> all for one machine
[01:43:16] <SWPLinux> Are you using a Parhelia, or multiple cards
[01:43:30] <SteveStallings> fun == KVM << random button that I cannot see from where I am seated
[01:43:46] <paul_c> three seperate cards
[01:44:06] <SteveStallings> cables would not reach, so I have to bend down under desk 8-
[01:44:10] <paul_c> and ssh int the other computers when I need to.
[01:44:42] <SWPLinux> The Parhelia or P750 from Matrox (or the P650 with an upgrade) can do 3 with a single card, and things like 3D and video can be accelerated across multiple monitors.
[01:45:01] <SWPLinux> (but not under Linux - the ba$tards)
[01:45:21] <paul_c> skinflint here - Cheap ATI & Nvidia cards.
[01:46:12] <SWPLinux> yeah - 3 of those are *definitely* less expensive than a Parhelia ($350 at minimum, up to $650 for the 256M version)
[01:46:22] <jmkasunich> ouch
[01:46:32] <SWPLinux> I have the $350 version
[01:46:36] <asdfqwega> Multiple monitors would be fun - but then I'd want multiple CPU's...
[01:46:49] <SteveStallings> SWP, have you had the DreamHost service long enough to have a solid impression of their service?
[01:46:52] <jmkasunich> running mostly 4M matrox milleniums here ;-)
[01:47:50] <SWPLinux> ah - excellent cards - I have two of those. No wait - one is a Millennium II.
[01:48:18] <SWPLinux> The best image quality is just about always a Matrox.
[01:48:47] <jmkasunich> I have about 6 (more dumpster pickins)
[01:49:12] <SWPLinux> SteveStallings: nope - I just signed up last week. I've heard good things about them, though.
[01:49:55] <SWPLinux> Who was asking (a few hours ago) about a PIC programmer?
[01:50:11] <SteveStallings> Ray, referring to the human sort I think
[01:50:46] <SWPLinux> Right - that's me
[01:50:55] <SWPLinux> (though I prefer the Atmel AVR series)
[01:51:46] <SteveStallings> I think he was just looking for a way to implement his simple serial ideas.
[01:51:57] <SWPLinux> Ah - I see.
[01:52:21] <paul_c> SWPLinux: How were you going to tackle the USC driver ?
[01:52:36] <SWPLinux> brute force and caffeiene :)
[01:53:05] <SWPLinux> Basically, look at the differences between other new and old drivers to catch EMC changes
[01:53:29] <SWPLinux> (build related, emc2 vs. emc1, that kind of thing)
[01:53:38] <rwilco> Hi, I'm new, here, & didn't see any links as to what "emc" was other then the minimalist explaination of emc as "enhanced machine control" so can anybody tell me what this is?
[01:54:02] <SWPLinux> then tackle the kernel related stuff ( if there is any - there may be differences with grabbing the parport addresses)
[01:54:17] <SWPLinux> then actually make it work, so I can run my millingn machine :)
[01:54:22] <paul_c> rwilco: www.linuxcnc.org
[01:54:24] <SWPLinux> milling
[01:55:05] <rwilco> neat, was looking for something like this.
[01:55:21] <paul_c> rwilco: Basically, a software package running under linux for controling machine tools
[01:56:01] <SWPLinux> I just noticed that I actually have a devide that would benefit from the serial driver we were discussing earlier.
[01:56:06] <SWPLinux> device
[01:56:52] <SWPLinux> It's a manual pulse generator I made. It has a serial port and a microcontroller on it. There are two LED digits, several inputs, four output bits, and an encoder knob.
[01:57:19] <SWPLinux> could be useful for manual jog, a pendant, step generator, etc.
[01:58:13] <SWPLinux> (that's four transistor outputs, there are other microcontroller bits that could be configured for output)
[02:00:46] <CIA-4> 03paul_c * 10emc/src/emcmot/extppmcmot.c: Ran file through dos2unix to get rid of those silly line terminators.
[02:08:03] <jmkasunich> well that's a pisser... knoqueror locked up
[02:08:06] <paul_c> SWPLinux: You have one of Jon's interfaces to test ?
[02:08:23] <CIA-4> 03paul_c * 10emc/src/emcmot/ (7 files): Get rid of a load of white space at the end of some of these files.
[02:09:37] <SWPLinux> yep.
[02:09:43] <SWPLinux> I bought the USC and GSI from Jon
[02:10:34] <SWPLinux> One day I'll hook everything up to the Bridgeport, and I'll be able to use EMC!!! :)
[02:21:40] <paul_c> just putting the finishing touches to the usc drivers
[02:25:21] <jmkasunich> gonna call it a day - goodnight all
[02:28:36] <paul_c> SWPLinux: Do you have the USC hooked up & ready for testing ?
[02:29:30] <SWPLinux> not entirely, but I can hook it up pretty quickly.
[02:29:56] <SWPLinux> I have a mixed-signal scope (2 analog + 16 digital channels) that I'll hook it to first.
[02:29:56] <paul_c> start plugging in.
[02:30:01] <SWPLinux> OK.
[02:31:02] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Added a couple more of Jon Elson's PPMC drivers.
[02:32:26] <SWPLinux> My EMC machine isn't the same as my development machine - what kernel is on BDI 4.16?
[02:32:43] <paul_c> 2.6.9-rtai
[02:32:56] <SWPLinux> Adeos / RTAI?
[02:33:15] <paul_c> yes
[02:33:45] <paul_c> but.... You would need to install the toolchain.
[02:34:13] <paul_c> gcc & make along with the usual dev libs.
[02:34:36] <SWPLinux> I'll see what happens if I just grab a module from one and try it on the other :D
[02:34:45] <paul_c> make sure gcc-2.95 is installed.
[02:35:10] <SWPLinux> Where can I get BDI-4.16 - I have 4.12 or 4.14 on that machine now (the one with the homing bug :) )
[02:35:39] <paul_c> If you build on BDI-4.12 or later and use on BDI-4.16, it should work.
[02:35:44] <SWPLinux> (or can I just use the emc .deb repository for the upgrade?)
[02:36:17] <paul_c> Haven't updated the repository yet.
[02:36:26] <SWPLinux> well - my devel machine is a GEntoo box, running a generic 2.6.9+Adeos kernel
[02:36:53] <SWPLinux> My machine controller (a touchscreen PC) is the one with a BDI install.
[02:36:53] <paul_c> You can compile & test on that surely ?
[02:37:38] <SWPLinux> I can compile, and I may be able to test, but this is a "legacy free" motherboard - the only parallel port I can use is a PCI card I have (from www.byterunner.com)
[02:38:05] <SWPLinux> (My motto is "No project too simple to make too complex" - fitting, eh? )
[02:40:33] <paul_c> the PCI card should work fine.
[02:42:06] <SWPLinux> I'll have to install it sometime - it's not in there right now.
[02:43:37] <paul_c> Alternatively, apt-get the tools & libs on the BDI-4.08 install and compile from source
[02:44:31] <SWPLinux> Well - now the touchscreen PC doesn't want to boot - I may have an IBM DeathStar hard drive in there... It'll probably be tomorrow before I can get to too much of this.
[02:45:23] <paul_c> well... If you are doing a fresh install, might as well try BDI-4.16 once it is up.
[02:46:35] <SWPadnos> I was thinking that. Is that on the Sherline site?
[02:46:56] <paul_c> it will be in about 10 hours.
[02:47:29] <SWPadnos> OK. ("A" DSL?)
[02:48:13] <paul_c> 750K down, 128K up - Very "A".
[02:48:36] <SWPadnos> yeah - I have 2M down, 256k up - similar A-ness.
[02:50:33] <paul_c> You could compile & try loading the modules - Let me know what (if any) unresolved symbols get reported...
[02:51:00] <paul_c> do a "make modules_install && depmod -ae"
[02:51:28] <SWPadnos> OK. One sec
[02:55:51] <SWPadnos> no problems through the build / install. depmod returns nothing
[03:02:40] <SWPLinux> Where should I run EMC? (this is the first time I've had a successful compile on this machine)
[03:03:08] <SWPLinux> I tried generic.run in the emc2 directory (the one created by the CVS checkout)
[03:06:02] <paul_c> you did a modules_install ?
[03:06:09] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:07:13] <paul_c> ./generic.run from within the emc dir should work fine
[03:07:31] <SWPLinux> OK - here are the unresolved symbols
[03:07:44] <paul_c> shoot
[03:07:52] <SWPLinux> (actually - do you want the console output, or dmesg?)
[03:08:15] <paul_c> dmesg will be fine
[03:08:30] <SWPLinux> OK - it's about 30 or so lines
[03:08:47] <SWPLinux> Adeos: Domain RTAI registered.
[03:08:47] <SWPLinux> RTAI[hal]: 3.1 mounted over Adeos 2.6r9c2/x86.
[03:08:47] <SWPLinux> RTAI[hal]: compiled with gcc version 3.3.4 20040623 (Gentoo Linux 3.3.4-r1, ssp-3.3.2-2, pie-8.7.6).
[03:08:48] <SWPLinux> RTAI[malloc]: loaded (global heap size=131072 bytes).
[03:08:48] <SWPLinux> RTAI[sched_up]: loaded.
[03:08:49] <SWPLinux> RTAI[sched_up]: fpu=yes, timer=periodic.
[03:08:50] <SWPLinux> RTAI[sched_up]: standard tick=1000 hz, CPU freq=1800794000 hz.
[03:08:52] <SWPLinux> RTAI[sched_up]: timer setup=2010 ns, resched latency=2688 ns.
[03:08:53] <paul_c> just the last few will be enough
[03:08:54] <SWPLinux> RTAI[malloc]: unloaded.
[03:08:56] <SWPLinux> RTAI[sched_up]: unloaded.
[03:08:58] <SWPLinux> Adeos: Domain RTAI unregistered.
[03:09:00] <SWPLinux> RTAI[hal]: unmounted.
[03:09:02] <SWPLinux> Adeos: Domain RTAI registered.
[03:09:17] <SWPadnos> sorry - I had already pasted (43 lines)
[03:10:09] <SWPadnos> Do you only want the unresolved symbols? It looks like RTAI was unloaded before freqmod tried to load (could be a buffering thing)
[03:10:38] <paul_c> just the unresolved lines.
[03:10:48] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol nano2count
[03:10:48] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol rt_get_time
[03:10:49] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol rt_task_make_periodic
[03:10:49] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol rt_get_time_ns
[03:10:50] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol start_rt_timer
[03:10:50] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol rt_task_delete
[03:10:51] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol stop_rt_timer
[03:10:53] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol rt_shm_free
[03:10:55] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol rt_shm_alloc
[03:10:57] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol rt_linux_use_fpu
[03:10:59] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol rt_task_init
[03:11:01] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol count2nano
[03:11:03] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol rt_set_periodic_mode
[03:11:05] <SWPLinux> freqmod: Unknown symbol rt_task_wait_period
[03:11:15] <SWPadnos> (that's all)
[03:11:25] <paul_c> right - RTAI isn't being reloaded.
[03:11:37] <SWPLinux> RTAI[malloc]: unloaded.
[03:11:37] <SWPLinux> RTAI[sched_lxrt]: unloaded.
[03:11:38] <SWPLinux> Adeos: Domain RTAI unregistered.
[03:11:38] <SWPLinux> RTAI[hal]: unmounted.
[03:12:05] <SWPLinux> those came right before the unresolved symbols
[03:14:29] <SWPLinux> also, the intro graphic wasn't found. (minor point)
[03:14:37] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega does his best Freddy Mercury dance around the shop
[03:15:05] <SWPadnos> Hey - you gotta be cool, relax.
[03:15:27] <paul_c> Do you have sudo installed & configured on the gentoo box ?
[03:15:43] <SWPadnos> no - I'm root, remember :)
[03:15:52] <SWPLinux> I mean me.
[03:16:03] <paul_c> still need sudo installed
[03:16:13] <SWPLinux> it is installed.
[03:16:29] <SWPLinux> I haven't customized its configuration
[03:17:11] <SWPLinux> (though that shouldn't matter if I'm already running as root, right?)
[03:17:49] <paul_c> if it isn't installed, bash will barf out at each invocation
[03:18:40] <SWPLinux> I can send you the console output if you like - it's only 12 lines
[03:19:41] <paul_c> paste it here
[03:20:14] <SWPLinux> inivar = plat/nonrealtime/bin/inivar
[03:20:14] <SWPLinux> INIFILE = generic.ini
[03:20:15] <SWPLinux> RS274NGC_PARAMFILE = generic.var
[03:20:15] <SWPLinux> starting emc...
[03:20:16] <SWPLinux> can't find file emc.gif
[03:20:18] <SWPLinux> starting EMC MOTION PROGRAM -- freqmod...
[03:20:20] <SWPLinux> IO_BASE_ADDRESS 0x378
[03:20:22] <SWPLinux> modprobe freqmod PERIOD=24000 IO_BASE_ADDRESS=0x378 SHMEM_KEY=100
[03:20:24] <SWPLinux> FATAL: Error inserting freqmod (/lib/modules/2.6.9Adeos/extra/freqmod.ko): Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)
[03:20:27] <SWPLinux> can't install freqmod
[03:20:29] <SWPLinux> generic.ini was not changed.
[03:20:31] <SWPLinux> generic.var was not changed.
[03:20:33] <SWPLinux> There's a 5-second pause after "Starting emc...."
[03:20:43] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/drivers/ppmc/ppmc_pwm.c: Fix a couple of niggling compile time warnings.
[03:20:48] <SWPLinux> and about 2 seconds after "can't install freqmod"
[03:21:08] <SWPLinux> (note that I have no parallel port in this machine at the moment)
[03:21:22] <paul_c> Ah.... I bet the RTAI modules arn't in the /lib/modules path
[03:22:44] <SWPLinux> what can I try to insmod to check
[03:23:07] <paul_c> insmod rtai_sched
[03:23:21] <SWPLinux> right - not found
[03:24:14] <paul_c> copy {rtai}/modules to /lib/modules/{KVER}/rtai
[03:24:18] <paul_c> and run depmod
[03:26:25] <paul_c> and next time you build RTAI, use the --with-module-dir=/lib/modules/$(KVERS)/rtai with configure
[03:28:11] <SWPLinux> there are a bunch of modules in {KVER}/extra
[03:28:33] <paul_c> yup - those will be the emc modules.
[03:28:43] <SWPLinux> when I ran depmod, I still couldn't load rtai_sched (from any old directory)
[03:29:22] <paul_c> insmod rtai_ksched
[03:29:56] <SWPLinux> nope - "no such file or directory"
[03:30:36] <paul_c> depmod -ae
[03:30:45] <SWPLinux> If I'm in the RTAI directory, it also fails, with 1 unknown symbol in module
[03:30:50] <SWPLinux> I did that
[03:31:51] <paul_c> don't 'spose I can ssh into your box ?
[03:32:15] <SWPLinux> I'm not sure :)
[03:32:34] <SWPLinux> hold on one sec - I just did a verbose depmod - I'll let you know what symbol is missing
[03:34:33] <SWPLinux> weell - there are a bunch of them - depmod says rtai_ksched needs rtai_hal (a bunch of symbols from rtai_hal)
[03:35:33] <SWPLinux> and if I manually install rtai_hal first, then rtai_ksched also loads fine
[03:36:58] <SWPLinux> that is, there are no errors at insmod time, though it doesn't show up with lsmod
[03:39:58] <paul_c> * paul_c is stumped for a bit.
[03:40:33] <SWPadnos> well - it may be something about my configuration - we certainly shouldn't rule that out.
[03:41:05] <SWPadnos> (this machine started as a 2.4.x kernel, then had about 37 2.5.x kernels, then finally 2.6, plus a bunch of multimedia things for a different project
[03:41:38] <SWPadnos> It's USB/PCI/AGP/FireWire only - no ISA slots, no PS/2 keyboard/mouse ports, no serial/parallel, etc.
[03:41:48] <SWPadnos> (you can see whhy I wanted 2.6 on it)
[03:42:57] <paul_c> dang... ssh would be sooo easy to help answer a few questions..
[03:43:37] <SWPadnos> Sorry - I just tried it from this machine, and it's disabled (even before the firewall)
[03:44:22] <SWPadnos> I can probably get it working with a little coaching, but it wouldn't make too much sense to tell you a password and stuff on IRC :)
[03:48:54] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega covers his eyes
[03:49:02] <asdfqwega> You can tell him now
[03:49:14] <SWPLinux> thanks :)
[03:49:58] <paul_c> kinda stumped - If rtai_hal & rtai_ksched are both in the /lib/modules/KVER/ tree, depmod should resolve them...
[03:50:31] <SWPLinux> yeah - and it's doing part of its job - insmod rtai_hal automatically loaded rtai_up
[03:51:04] <SWPLinux> I wonder if it couldn't get two levels deep (rtai_ksched needs rtai_hal needs rtai_up)
[03:51:29] <asdfqwega> paul_c: I had a similar problem with BDI-4.14 - when I tried to do the 'custom' install option
[03:53:15] <asdfqwega> score: Synergy 1, asdfqwega 0
[03:53:50] <SWPLinux> My depmod has no 'a' option. There's an 'A' option.
[03:54:53] <paul_c> hmmm... what version of module-init-tools is installed ?
[03:55:13] <SWPLinux> module-init-tools 3.0
[03:56:45] <paul_c> try depmod without any flags
[03:58:13] <SWPLinux> I just noticed - I had read the lsmod backwards - rtai_hal was being used by rtai_up.
[03:59:07] <SWPLinux> well - insmod doesn't work, but modprobe does :)
[03:59:31] <SWPLinux> though the rtai_ksched module lists itself as rtai_up
[04:00:22] <paul_c> rtai_ksched is a symlink to rtai_up or rtai_smp
[04:00:50] <SWPLinux> that would explain it. but you have to know which one or you can't remove the module.
[04:01:33] <SWPLinux> interesting.
[04:01:44] <paul_c> So modprobe works ?
[04:01:54] <SWPLinux> earlier, rtai_ksched was a symlink. now, it's a file
[04:02:01] <SWPLinux> yes - modprobe works
[04:02:09] <SWPLinux> (a regular file)
[04:02:25] <paul_c> right - Now go back and try generic.run
[04:02:26] <SWPLinux> I copied it without the proper "preserve links" option
[04:03:19] <SWPLinux> *Much* better :) (though the opening graphic is still missing :( )
[04:09:04] <paul_c> working on something...
[04:09:42] <SWPLinux> Thanks a bunch, Paul. now I'll have lots of stuff to try out in the next couple of days.
[04:09:50] <SWPLinux> Whaty, pray tell?
[04:11:47] <paul_c> wait'n'see
[04:12:10] <SWPLinux> (I'm thinking you're in the process of uploading a graphic to CVS :) )
[04:12:28] <paul_c> not yet.
[04:14:43] <paul_c> damn - The internet is slow tonight.
[04:15:18] <SWPLinux> heh heh - yeah. All the little kiddies are off from school tomorrow, so it's gametime
[04:15:36] <SWPLinux> Ona positive note, my EMC machine just needed a BIOS reset, it seems to be booting OK now.
[04:34:10] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/ (chips.gif generic.ini src/emc/drivers/ppmc/ppmc_pwm.c): Add an intro graphics image.
[04:35:34] <SWPLinux> Ha! I was right :)
[04:38:39] <SWPLinux> (sort of)
[04:39:51] <SWPLinux> EMC doesn't seem to clean up after itself. there are several modules left over after a run (and exit with file->quit)
[04:41:09] <paul_c> wich ones ?
[04:41:31] <SWPLinux> Module Size Used by
[04:41:31] <SWPLinux> freqmod 290080 0
[04:41:31] <SWPLinux> rtai_shm 9280 1 freqmod
[04:41:31] <SWPLinux> rtai_up 54160 2 freqmod,rtai_shm
[04:41:32] <SWPLinux> rtai_hal 20148 1 rtai_up
[04:43:29] <paul_c> run remove_realtime_base
[04:44:39] <SWPLinux> still there
[04:44:47] <SWPLinux> sed: -e expression #1, char 7: strings for y command are different lengths
[04:44:48] <SWPLinux> sed: -e expression #1, char 7: strings for y command are different lengths
[04:44:48] <SWPLinux> Removing kernel module rtai_shm
[04:44:48] <SWPLinux> ERROR: Module rtai_shm is in use by freqmod
[04:45:11] <paul_c> fsckit - That problem.
[04:45:21] <SWPLinux> apparently
[04:45:52] <SWPLinux> there are others, of course because this isn't removed and they depnd on it
[05:02:16] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/ (generic.run remove_realtime_base src/Makefile): Fix the sed regex with one that works with the latest version..
[05:02:44] <paul_c> try it now.
[05:05:43] <SWPLinux> OK.
[05:07:43] <SWPLinux> OK. That worked (but the graphic didn't get pulled)
[05:07:56] <SWPLinux> I need to get a CVS reference
[05:10:03] <SWPadnos> Well - it's time for me to get some sleep.
[05:10:05] <SWPadnos> Thanks
[05:10:12] <SWPadnos> for your help.
[05:10:57] <paul_c> NO WAY - You stay up untill I've finished !
[05:11:16] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos pronounces you done for the night :)
[05:11:53] <paul_c> sun isn't up yet.
[05:12:02] <SWPadnos> It is in India
[05:13:21] <SWPadnos> (sorry - had to drop my wife off at the airport at 6:00 this morning, and it's past midnight now.)
[05:14:24] <paul_c> better than dropping her off at 6000 ft
[05:14:42] <SWPadnos> yes
[05:15:28] <SWPadnos> actually - my EMC machine just locked up hard (when I ran EMC) - I'll need to install more dev tools tomorrow (possibly a new BDI, just for the heck of it)
[05:16:06] <SWPadnos> What's your schedule tomorrow?
[05:16:48] <paul_c> get up, have breakfast, do something to fill the day in, bed.
[05:17:00] <SWPadnos> OK - I can fit in with that.
[05:17:13] <SWPadnos> (similar to mine, unless I get a business call or something)
[05:17:32] <SWPadnos> what timezone are you in?
[05:18:14] <paul_c> GMT now.
[05:18:29] <SWPadnos> Ah - so the sun should be up in about 30 minutes or so :)
[05:18:57] <paul_c> in less than an hour..
[05:23:17] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos is asleep now
[05:23:23] <SWPadnos> good night
[07:51:40] <Jymmm> Ya gotta love it!!! ROTFLMAO ---> "I discovered how electronic components work: They are full of smoke. If the smoke gets out, they don't work any more."
[08:11:57] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[08:12:19] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[08:13:24] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[08:26:11] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[09:40:17] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[14:05:54] <les> hello all
[14:06:27] <les> machine is down this morning....thunderstorms are affecting the power
[14:07:14] <les> Machine shuts down with a bad power flicker
[14:07:39] <les> Oh well I can work on the usb steeper production testers
[14:07:43] <les> stepper
[14:08:26] <paul_c> snow showers here....
[14:08:48] <paul_c> Power is still OK, so I can do some more work on the CVS code.
[14:08:49] <les> really
[14:09:35] <paul_c> 0.333" and turns to slush as soon as it settles. It won't last long.
[14:09:59] <les> I remember 14 inches there once
[14:12:10] <les> Having a bit of trouble with z axis homing prematurely lately
[14:12:26] <les> Don't think it's software related
[14:12:56] <les> I think the normally closed home switch is not making good contact
[14:13:11] <les> x and y are fine
[14:13:37] <les> I'll put a scope on it and look for glitches
[14:13:41] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/tcl/ (10 files in 2 dirs): IO scripts use sudo when calling iosh - This avoids the usr having to be root to run this stuff.
[14:14:09] <les> Those switches really ought to have an rc low pass filter on them anyway
[14:14:26] <les> No need for them to be super fast
[14:14:55] <les> well off to the shop
[14:45:15] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/ (generic.var generic.run): Tweaked the diff usage to use the unified flag and provide some context.
[14:53:47] <SWPadnos> Hello
[14:54:25] <SWPadnos> paul_c: if you notice this, can you please let me know where you uploaded the new BDI-4 image?
[14:54:38] <paul_c> Committed a couple more changes to CVS
[14:54:55] <paul_c> and BDI-4.16 is uploaded.
[14:55:14] <SWPadnos> Ah - hi there. Where can I get it?
[14:55:24] <paul_c> www.sherline.com/emc
[14:56:57] <SWPadnos> Thanks
[14:57:04] <SWPadnos> I;m starting a meeting - I'll be back later
[15:12:22] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, where's the changelog [or is there one]?
[15:16:05] <paul_c> There isn't one.
[15:16:31] <paul_c> Just Synergy updated.
[15:24:07] <paul_c> Afternoon Steve
[15:24:20] <SteveStallings> apresnoon Paul
[15:24:43] <SteveStallings> you have been busy I see, lots of commits
[15:25:46] <paul_c> just moving BDI-4 code out from a local repository in to Sourceforge.
[15:28:03] <SteveStallings> is the EMC on BDI-4xx still EMC1 or moving toward a hybrid of some sort?
[15:29:41] <paul_c> It is a mix of emc2 (libnml) and emc1
[15:30:47] <paul_c> with the emphasis on BDI builds...
[18:20:28] <SWPadnos> Hi Paul - 'm back.
[18:20:46] <SWPadnos> do you have the MD5 sum for BDI-4.16?
[18:48:43] <cradek> http://sherline.com/emc/
[18:50:52] <SWPadnos> thanks - I see it now
[18:51:13] <cradek> welcome
[18:52:07] <SWPadnos> Out of curiosity, I'm transferring this image to some web space I have - do you have any idea why it would only be going 50-7K/sec?
[18:52:11] <SWPadnos> (50-70)
[18:52:42] <SWPadnos> This is from a shell account on a web hosting service, so it should be a pretty fat pipe.
[18:53:22] <cradek> I only get 40K/s on my T1 so it's not you
[18:53:50] <SWPadnos> OK. It seemed faster when I downloaded it on my home DSL account
[18:54:05] <cradek> the bottleneck might be in between. Hard to say.
[18:54:12] <SWPadnos> (it must have been, because it only too 1 hour, not 3.5)
[18:54:31] <SWPadnos> Do you have any sense of how much traffic the EMC mirrors get?
[18:56:29] <cradek> don't know, sorry
[18:56:46] <SWPadnos> OK - I'm asking everyone until I get an answer :)
[18:57:05] <SWPadnos> (I may mail one of the mirror providers, but I'm too lazy right now)
[19:20:22] <anonimasu> hello
[19:20:30] <anonimasu> is there anyone here?
[19:22:06] <anonimasu> I just encountered a strange bug in emc2
[19:25:35] <A-L-P-H-A> not I.
[19:25:41] <A-L-P-H-A> <-- still is trying to config emc1.
[19:25:44] <anonimasu> hm, I lost my 0
[19:25:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I lost my V
[19:26:00] <A-L-P-H-A> many years ago.
[19:26:07] <anonimasu> howcome?
[19:26:16] <anonimasu> the machine thought 0 was down..
[19:26:20] <anonimasu> when I was at -13 already
[19:26:33] <A-L-P-H-A> I was 19.
[19:26:39] <A-L-P-H-A> nm.
[19:26:42] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[19:27:04] <anonimasu> oh, I dont really care :D
[19:27:12] <anonimasu> heh
[19:29:42] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, know of any HEX to Integer, or integer to aSCII code for assembly?
[19:30:01] <anonimasu> nope, I dont code assembler..
[19:30:04] <anonimasu> :)
[19:30:10] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm.
[19:30:38] <anonimasu> just c
[19:30:43] <anonimasu> I'll be back in a bit
[19:30:49] <paul_c> * paul_c hasn't done asm for a while...
[19:34:28] <SWPadnos> what kind of assembly?
[19:34:37] <A-L-P-H-A> AVR ASM.
[19:34:48] <A-L-P-H-A> risc based.
[19:34:50] <SWPadnos> I'm kind of an expert - what do you need to know?
[19:35:08] <A-L-P-H-A> hex to integer to ASCII, to display on an LCD screen. :)
[19:35:55] <SWPadnos> What do you mean? Do you start with a 2-character hex code, and you want to print it on an ASCII LCD character module?
[19:36:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm planing on using a interrupt to set to registered (one flag, and the other a counter)... set aside 2-4 registers to count...
[19:36:16] <A-L-P-H-A> this is more or less a timer counter...
[19:36:22] <A-L-P-H-A> end result I want to do is a tachometer.
[19:36:51] <SWPadnos> So - you want to make a binary display on wither a character display or a 7-segment type of numeric display, right?
[19:36:58] <SWPadnos> (binary number display...)
[19:37:22] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, to display on an HD44780 LCD screen. (2 x 16 characters)
[19:38:06] <SWPadnos> OK - so you want some routines to convert from binary to ASCII, and possibly some to actually output to the LCD controller
[19:38:21] <A-L-P-H-A> yes.
[19:38:34] <SWPadnos> Which is more important: speed of code size?
[19:38:45] <SWPadnos> OR - (I need more caffeiene)
[19:38:54] <SWPadnos> speed OR code size?
[19:39:03] <A-L-P-H-A> see, the hex to ascii part was to count the number of cycles [know from count], so between to interrupts, the number of cycles would be counted.
[19:39:19] <A-L-P-H-A> code I have 2K to play with (really 1K).
[19:39:39] <SWPadnos> Well - you don't start with, you start with binary. you can output as ASCII hex chars if you like
[19:40:04] <SWPadnos> OK - are you using a 90S1200 or one of the ATTinys?
[19:40:14] <A-L-P-H-A> k, I can deal with hex/binary [same deal].
[19:40:24] <A-L-P-H-A> 90s2313 [bigger bro of 90s1200]
[19:40:34] <A-L-P-H-A> I have live stack,a nd 128bytes of ram.
[19:40:39] <SWPadnos> Oh yeah - the 1200 is 512 words.
[19:40:50] <A-L-P-H-A> 1024 words.
[19:40:52] <SWPadnos> (I've been using the megas for a while)
[19:40:53] <A-L-P-H-A> = 2K
[19:41:05] <A-L-P-H-A> I will deal with megas when I learn a bit more. :)
[19:41:22] <A-L-P-H-A> fyi: there's an #AVR chan on freenode.
[19:41:28] <SWPadnos> Can you use a MEGA core? (or one of the "tiny mega" ones)?
[19:41:49] <SWPadnos> I write embedded software for a living - I'm not sure I want to spend much time on the IRC channel :)
[19:41:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I can use anything at this moment. As I haven't built anything. Though I do have like 18 units of 90s2313.
[19:42:27] <SWPadnos> There are a couple of reasons for the megas:
[19:42:53] <SWPadnos> 1) they have word move instructions. You'll probably be using at least 16 bits per value, so this will be handy
[19:43:09] <SWPadnos> 2) they have multiplication instructions - these are very useful in a bunch of instances
[19:43:38] <SWPadnos> 3) some of them can reprogram the code space, so you could do serial software updates (instead of having to use a programmer)
[19:43:45] <A-L-P-H-A> 1.) I have MOV
[19:43:47] <A-L-P-H-A> 2.) nope
[19:44:01] <SWPadnos> you don't have MOVW
[19:44:03] <A-L-P-H-A> 3.) don't really need it if I have it done right once. :)
[19:44:10] <A-L-P-H-A> no, I don't have MOVW
[19:44:31] <SWPadnos> 4) other forms of the LPM instruction (replaces 3 instructions on the regular AVRs)
[19:45:13] <SWPadnos> Otherwise, they're basically the same chips (the peripheral differences won't matter)
[19:45:22] <A-L-P-H-A> well, considering my BIGGEST program so far has been 213bytes, I'm not too worried about thatstuff. :)
[19:45:39] <SWPadnos> but it could have 203 with a MEGA :)
[19:47:02] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, but when you have a mega with large amounts of spce, it wouldn't be much of an issue. :)
[19:47:13] <SWPadnos> true - you win both ways :)
[19:47:37] <SWPadnos> One thing I've noticed is that the user interface always takes up way more space than you think it will.
[19:48:01] <A-L-P-H-A> my interface would have 2 buttons max. :) heh.
[19:48:07] <SWPadnos> The routines to convert from binary to decimal (for a 16-bit number) are around 50 words
[19:48:17] <SWPadnos> You want to print something, right?
[19:48:22] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm currently using only 6 of the 15 pins on my chip. (4 databus to the LCd, RW and E to the LCD)
[19:48:38] <SWPadnos> (that's 7 :) )
[19:48:40] <A-L-P-H-A> yes, I wan to output the value to the LCd.
[19:48:55] <SWPadnos> (unless you leave R/W unconnected)
[19:48:58] <A-L-P-H-A> oops. 4 + 2.
[19:49:04] <A-L-P-H-A> RW is 0/1
[19:49:12] <A-L-P-H-A> 1 pin.
[19:49:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I2C would be neat to the LCD, but my LCd doesn't support it.
[19:49:48] <SWPadnos> Sorry - there's another pin you need - the RS pin is required
[19:50:10] <A-L-P-H-A> the other pin is always 0, so I just grounded it.
[19:50:31] <SWPadnos> So you need 7 pins - 4 data, LCDE, RS, RW.
[19:50:47] <SWPadnos> No - it's not always 0. You need it to select between control words and data words
[19:51:02] <SWPadnos> otherwise you can't initialize the display
[19:51:04] <A-L-P-H-A> RS, R/W, E, Databus. The R/W, I always want to write, so it's always 0.
[19:51:26] <SWPadnos> No - you have to be able to read back the BUSY flag
[19:51:37] <A-L-P-H-A> nope, just using timing instead.
[19:51:49] <SWPadnos> (or you may be urprised at awhat shows up on the display)
[19:51:53] <SWPadnos> (surprised)
[19:52:15] <SWPadnos> y cnat I ytpe?
[19:52:34] <A-L-P-H-A> I understand and know about the BF, but it's not needed, as you'd just clear the screen, or line, and rewrite it.
[19:52:55] <SWPadnos> been there, done that - use the busy flag and you still have 8 pins left over :)
[19:52:58] <A-L-P-H-A> you just have to do a longer delay to ensure that the action has happened.
[19:53:15] <A-L-P-H-A> true
[19:53:50] <A-L-P-H-A> anyways, the LCD part is more of the trivial segment of the code now.
[19:54:05] <SWPadnos> right - what do you have for the tach sensor?
[19:54:46] <A-L-P-H-A> tach sensor, could be IR em/detector... with a hex trigger... 7404 or something nice to clean the signal.
[19:55:04] <SWPadnos> but just one pulse per revolution, or an encoder type thing?
[19:55:15] <SWPadnos> A Hall sensor?
[19:56:27] <A-L-P-H-A> the logic so far is: int0: if start counter; else stop; reti; loop: if counter, noop x10, increment counter jmp loop; if!counter jmp display; display: counter(hex) to integer to display.
[19:56:41] <A-L-P-H-A> the counter will probably take up 3-4 registered... to get up slow rpms.
[19:56:57] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, hall sensor would work too. this is just an RPM counter.
[19:57:52] <SWPadnos> What speed range do you want for the tach, and what clock frequency do you expect to use on the AVR?
[19:57:53] <A-L-P-H-A> LED ir em/det would be the cheapest thing... as I have them already, and a bunch of 7404 chips.
[19:58:18] <A-L-P-H-A> I want it to do between maybe 6 rpm to 15,000 rpm.
[19:58:44] <A-L-P-H-A> the lower end doesn't really matter to me that much.
[19:58:59] <A-L-P-H-A> the highspeed RPM is what matters to me a little more.
[19:59:18] <SWPadnos> It's a question of how big the counter is, and when the software gives up and says "0"
[19:59:31] <SWPadnos> (or <10)
[20:00:05] <A-L-P-H-A> to my understanding with 3 registers, i could have 255^3
[20:00:30] <A-L-P-H-A> 16,581,375 counter.
[20:00:47] <SWPadnos> 16,777,215
[20:00:53] <A-L-P-H-A> so that'd be about 4 seconds if I counted every operational cycle.
[20:00:55] <SWPadnos> (256 ^ 3 -1)
[20:01:02] <A-L-P-H-A> 16777216 :) yeah.
[20:01:11] <A-L-P-H-A> why the -1?
[20:01:20] <A-L-P-H-A> overflow?
[20:01:21] <SWPadnos> because 16777216 would roll over to 0
[20:01:32] <SWPadnos> yes - the same reason a byte is 0-255, not 256
[20:01:39] <A-L-P-H-A> k.
[20:01:52] <A-L-P-H-A> so with a 4mhz chip, it'd be 4 seconds.
[20:02:20] <A-L-P-H-A> 4294967295 <-- 4 registers... [I do have a lot of registers I could use]
[20:02:51] <SWPadnos> yes - good for 15 RPM or higher
[20:02:54] <A-L-P-H-A> 4,294,967,295 <-- 4 registers... [I do have a lot of registers I could use] that's 10 seconds, if a 4mHz crystal.
[20:03:30] <SWPadnos> A 4-byte counter might make sense - it's actually 1000 seconds (18 minutes or so - don't ask :) )
[20:03:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I could just do ten NOPs in a row, and that'd be good enough for an EST.
[20:03:51] <SWPadnos> just use a timer, and a small prescaler value
[20:04:10] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't know how use times... :) I'd like to learn that actually.
[20:04:16] <A-L-P-H-A> that'd make my life a little easier I think.
[20:04:30] <SWPadnos> a *LOT* easier
[20:04:37] <SWPadnos> and mroe accurate
[20:04:39] <SWPadnos> more
[20:04:56] <A-L-P-H-A> int0: if FLAG; stop flag; stop timer; else start flag; start timer;
[20:04:58] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm.
[20:05:19] <SWPadnos> Not quite.
[20:05:31] <SWPadnos> INT0: read timer and zero it
[20:05:41] <SWPadnos> do a 1/x to get speed from time
[20:05:44] <SWPadnos> print
[20:06:04] <SWPadnos> The timer interrupt only counts the higher byte(s) of the count value
[20:06:33] <SWPadnos> even at 15K RPM, that's only 250 Hz, or a 4ms period
[20:06:59] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... still lots of cycles to spare.
[20:07:57] <SWPadnos> the 1/x function for a 32-bit number takes around 700 cycles
[20:08:28] <A-L-P-H-A> I only got 16 bits for the timer.
[20:10:56] <SWPadnos> the ASCII conversion for a 2-byte number (assuming you'll be between 0 and 64K RPM) takes around 120 cycles or so
[20:11:23] <A-L-P-H-A> that's not too bad.
[20:11:24] <SWPadnos> The timer is 16 bit, but in the interrupt, you would increment a register pair, so you end up with 32 bits
[20:11:43] <SWPadnos> It's actually transferring it to the LCD that takes forever.
[20:11:55] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't mind missing a pulse or 3... I want to get the RPM ballpark (+/- 100RPM at the speed isn't a big deal to me)
[20:12:25] <SWPadnos> the spec says that the LCD might take as long as 40 uS per character (I'm not sure if this is per nibble in 4-bit mode)
[20:13:16] <A-L-P-H-A> that I don't know.
[20:13:23] <SWPadnos> I thnk the LCD clear function is in the milliseconds
[20:13:35] <SWPadnos> (it's a good reason to use the BUSY flag :) )
[20:13:42] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't need REALTIME, if I'm off by evern 2 seconds to display the RPM, it's current enough for me.
[20:14:07] <SWPadnos> I suppose it's a little less strict than a 10 megawatt power supply controller :)
[20:14:14] <A-L-P-H-A> yes.
[20:14:40] <A-L-P-H-A> this is for manual inspection of the RPM... hopefully tie it into software via RS232, or TTL in the future. [I have max232 set aside for it already
[20:15:51] <SWPadnos> that really makes you want to use the hardware timer.
[20:16:14] <SWPadnos> you don't the speed to fluctuate by 700 RPM when a serial byte arrives or is sentt
[20:16:36] <A-L-P-H-A> I would wait till the spindle is up to speed, before proceeding.
[20:17:35] <SWPadnos> but you wouldn't know when it's up to speed if you have to deal with noise on the RS232 line :)
[20:18:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I'd be sending ASCII text to throught he RS232 line.
[20:20:26] <SWPadnos> OK - if you disable reception and just throw the data out there for anything that's listening, that would be OK
[20:21:24] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah.
[20:21:27] <A-L-P-H-A> no response back is ness.
[20:21:52] <SWPadnos> ness?
[20:21:54] <A-L-P-H-A> I could make this go at 10mHz... [I have extra crystals]
[20:22:05] <A-L-P-H-A> necessary
[20:22:13] <A-L-P-H-A> or however you spell it
[20:22:20] <SWPadnos> If anything, I'd go in the other direction - use a 1MHz or 2 MHz crystal
[20:22:24] <A-L-P-H-A> one of those words that spell check fixes for me.
[20:22:25] <SWPadnos> (OK)
[20:22:36] <SWPadnos> necessary
[20:22:53] <A-L-P-H-A> so I did spell it right, just my shortform wasn't close.
[20:23:10] <pemmet> hello
[20:23:15] <SWPadnos> Right - I thought you were in Scotland :)
[20:23:17] <A-L-P-H-A> hi
[20:23:18] <SWPadnos> hi
[20:23:41] <pemmet> i took pictures of my 2d stepper table...
[20:24:00] <pemmet> i was wondering if i could ask a few questions about it :D
[20:24:14] <SWPadnos> I may not be able to answer (correctly) :)
[20:24:18] <pemmet> heh
[20:24:23] <pemmet> i take any help i can get..
[20:24:34] <pemmet> i'm hoping to have it moving by the end of the week :D
[20:24:41] <SWPadnos> Good - another victim (muahahahah)
[20:24:54] <pemmet> heh
[20:25:00] <pemmet> try !list pemmet
[20:25:18] <A-L-P-H-A> hey robin_sz
[20:25:23] <robin_sz> meep A-L-P-H-A
[20:25:27] <pemmet> this is the bdi i'm using: bdi-5.08.iso
[20:25:28] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, so, I'm gonna read up on the timer trigger.
[20:25:37] <SWPadnos> good plan :)
[20:25:43] <SWPadnos> !list pemmet
[20:25:45] <A-L-P-H-A> and I'll see if I can use that.
[20:25:46] <pemmet> can I dcc send the pics? or does someone wanna look around in my fserve
[20:25:47] <pemmet> D:
[20:25:51] <pemmet> it's in daedal pics
[20:25:56] <pemmet> or emc pics
[20:25:57] <pemmet> or something
[20:26:20] <pemmet> the rar has all of 'em
[20:26:27] <pemmet> or they can be gotten seperatly
[20:26:45] <robin_sz> rar .. coo. magic monkeys make that.
[20:26:49] <pemmet> yep
[20:26:55] <pemmet> it's 1.5ish megs, i believe
[20:27:08] <robin_sz> when rar'd?
[20:27:13] <pemmet> yep
[20:27:17] <pemmet> it's seven photos
[20:27:21] <robin_sz> so it expands to about 14gb then?
[20:27:33] <pemmet> haha... nah
[20:27:37] <pemmet> jpgs dont compress much
[20:27:44] <pemmet> it'll be about that when unrar'd too...
[20:27:53] <SWPadnos> you need bigger motors to compress JPEGs
[20:27:57] <pemmet> HUGE
[20:28:11] <pemmet> i can zip it instead...
[20:28:15] <pemmet> if you dont have winrar..
[20:28:36] <robin_sz> most people on here dont even have windows, let alon wn=inrar ;)
[20:28:39] <pemmet> there.. now there's both
[20:28:47] <pemmet> hmm
[20:28:48] <A-L-P-H-A> linux has unrar
[20:28:51] <pemmet> can you look into zips?
[20:28:52] <pemmet> yea
[20:28:53] <robin_sz> it does?
[20:28:56] <pemmet> that's what i thought
[20:28:58] <pemmet> :/
[20:29:06] <robin_sz> coo. never new that
[20:29:11] <pemmet> well you can at least look at jpgs :D
[20:29:32] <robin_sz> * robin_sz polishes his glasses
[20:29:52] <pemmet> try the fserve, if it doesn't work, i'll just dcc send
[20:29:55] <anonimasu> hello
[20:29:58] <pemmet> hi!
[20:30:05] <paul_c> * paul_c glances @ irc...
[20:30:23] <paul_c> Didn't know bdi was up to 5.08 so soon
[20:30:49] <pemmet> it's running smooth on a 400MHz
[20:31:42] <SWPadnos> how does the fserve thing work? I got a little information from !list, but nothing I know how to use.
[20:32:06] <pemmet> ok.. there should be something that says /ctcp EMC pics
[20:32:12] <pemmet> that's the trigger
[20:32:14] <SWPadnos> nevermind - I just looked in the help
[20:32:16] <pemmet> ah
[20:32:17] <pemmet> :D
[20:32:20] <pemmet> helps good too
[20:32:53] <pemmet> sometimes firewalls dont let fserves work
[20:33:01] <pemmet> if so, i can jsut try to do a standard dcc sned
[20:33:17] <pemmet> shall i try that?
[20:33:26] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure - hold on a sec
[20:33:29] <pemmet> ok
[20:33:50] <SWPadnos> sure - what the heck. My firewall amy not allow it, though
[20:33:55] <SWPadnos> may, not amy
[20:34:08] <SWPadnos> (I don't even know Amy)
[20:34:26] <pemmet> hmm
[20:34:28] <pemmet> not working..
[20:34:28] <pemmet> dang
[20:34:40] <robin_sz> magic monkeys are on strike
[20:34:59] <SWPadnos> I have a magic monkey shield on the premesis :)
[20:35:00] <pemmet> can i email you?
[20:35:21] <SWPadnos> that wouldn't be the best - is there an FTP or web site where I can get them?
[20:35:26] <robin_sz> today I oredered an FPGA development kit :)
[20:35:26] <pemmet> hmm
[20:35:38] <SWPadnos> Cool - which one?
[20:35:39] <pemmet> i dont really have an ftpserver...
[20:35:45] <robin_sz> Spartan3
[20:35:53] <pemmet> do you want a gmail account?
[20:35:54] <SWPadnos> great.
[20:36:03] <SWPadnos> You planning on modifying the USC from JonE?
[20:36:10] <SWPadnos> I have a GMail account
[20:36:14] <robin_sz> not worth developing a new core for an older spec xilinx
[20:36:30] <robin_sz> nah, more like a thing influenced by the G2002 :)
[20:36:36] <SWPadnos> I'm swpadnos
[20:36:40] <jepler> robin_sz: is there usable, no-cost software for FPGA that runs on Linux? I've also wanted to give FPGA a try
[20:36:43] <SWPadnos> (on gmail)
[20:36:47] <robin_sz> no kidding
[20:37:06] <pemmet> ok...
[20:37:07] <SWPadnos> yeah - I've been nearly inspired as well. :)
[20:37:17] <robin_sz> jepler: theres a MUCH better than just useable dev enviroment from XIlinx .. its free, its totally awesome, but runs on doze
[20:37:23] <pemmet> i can send you on gmail then... the photo is about 200kb
[20:37:23] <SWPadnos> I have two kits from Altera
[20:37:35] <SWPadnos> pemmet: sounds fine to me
[20:37:37] <pemmet> unless you're @ work, or something, and they dont like that... or it's insecure or whatever
[20:37:39] <pemmet> :D
[20:37:41] <pemmet> ok
[20:37:48] <SWPadnos> I work at home, and I'm fine with it.
[20:38:06] <jepler> robin_sz: free is nice, but I always pull my hair out after being forced to use windows .. especially "devstudio"-type GUIs on any OS
[20:38:38] <robin_sz> jepler: seriously, just drag and drop logic and wire it up on a schematic (like 16bit accumulators, latches, counters .. wahtever) .. press the 'go' button and it works it all out, timing, fit onto chip, pins, totally simple
[20:38:42] <SWPadnos> There are VHDL / Verilog compilers on Linux, I think - I don;t know the names
[20:38:59] <robin_sz> probably, but this was so simple to use ..
[20:39:12] <SWPadnos> Nothing as chip-specific, or with the types of optimizations that the vendor-specific programs have
[20:39:17] <robin_sz> why suffer the pain of VHDL when you can just draw your logic?
[20:39:27] <jepler> how much for the spratan3 development kit hardware?
[20:39:31] <SWPadnos> Exactly. I do wish there were better tools on Linux though
[20:39:40] <robin_sz> jepler: 99 dollars
[20:40:12] <pemmet> swp: okey, it's sent...
[20:40:16] <robin_sz> jepler: but yo can download the 'Webpack ISE" for free and start playing now
[20:40:19] <SWPadnos> THat type of tool should run under VMware (other than the actual donwloading)
[20:40:42] <robin_sz> might run under wine
[20:40:54] <SWPadnos> yep - Wine, too
[20:41:12] <robin_sz> whatever, it was one of those bits of software that restores your faith in computing :)
[20:41:52] <SWPadnos> I've been pretty impressed with the Altera tools as well.
[20:42:05] <anonimasu> hm, robin, do you work on emc2?
[20:42:19] <robin_sz> not looked at them .. Alterea .. thats fpga stuff too?
[20:42:28] <SWPadnos> I bought the NIOS development kit (two - for different architectures) - it's an embedded processor core - 16 or 32 bit, etc
[20:42:41] <SWPadnos> yes
[20:43:08] <robin_sz> anonimasu: nto really, i watch and comment, but ive struggled to find the time to contribute anyting useful recently, I sort of lost the plot on where it was all going ...
[20:43:12] <SWPadnos> It's pretty cool to have an FPGA that has an ARM core in it, and enough gates to put 6 other 32-bit processors, plus other logic.
[20:44:10] <paul_c> www.opencores.org
[20:44:22] <SWPadnos> yes - those are available as well. :)
[20:44:38] <SWPadnos> I've yet to actually make anything with my stuff - business dried up a bit last year
[20:44:57] <anonimasu> robin_sz: ok, I think I found somthing strange with it
[20:45:13] <jepler> SWPadnos: that's a bigger fpga than spartan3, surely? (for a half-dozen processor cores)
[20:45:45] <robin_sz> jepler spartan3 comes in small variants too, down to $15 worth .. they aint all big.
[20:45:53] <SWPadnos> Yes - but the cores are amazingly small.
[20:46:08] <anonimasu> hm, 100x of thoose on a board + some code to spit out ops from the px ;)
[20:46:11] <anonimasu> pc
[20:46:21] <anonimasu> neat.
[20:48:56] <SWPadnos> THe NIOS core (32-bit version) is roughly 3K cells in a Stratix chip
[20:49:33] <anonimasu> how many cells does that chip have?
[20:49:40] <SWPadnos> checking now...
[20:51:02] <SWPadnos> up to 180k (!)
[20:51:14] <anonimasu> lol
[20:51:16] <anonimasu> that's violent
[20:51:55] <anonimasu> about 60 cores..
[20:52:18] <SWPadnos> yeah - and there are chips with other peripherals built in (like ethernet MAC, ARM core, DSP blocks, etc.)
[20:52:39] <SWPadnos> Well - you'd chew up a bunch with interconnect fabric if you want above a dozen or so cores :)
[20:52:58] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:53:01] <anonimasu> still violent
[20:53:06] <SWPadnos> very!
[20:54:12] <anonimasu> I wonder what processing speed you would get
[20:54:29] <SWPadnos> Actually - the sample design I have here has the CPU core, 1 UART, an LCD interface, ROM, 7-segment LED driver, a timer, and some button I/Os
[20:54:50] <SWPadnos> It looks like the speed would be limited to around 100 MHz
[20:54:56] <anonimasu> bleh..
[20:54:57] <anonimasu> too low
[20:54:58] <anonimasu> :)
[20:55:09] <SWPadnos> yeah - that's why I gave up - no real power :)
[20:55:15] <anonimasu> the xilinx goes up to 400mhz ;)
[20:55:45] <SWPadnos> The chip does, but do any real designs? (100MHz was for the actual operation of the CPU core)
[20:55:58] <anonimasu> I have no idea..
[20:56:01] <anonimasu> but probably..
[20:56:20] <SWPadnos> I may check the new stuff out at Embedded Systems conference this year
[21:00:22] <robin_sz> yeah, the Xilinx stuff is quicke thats for sure ... they have PICchips implemented as cores even :)
[21:00:55] <SWPadnos> eek - who would want to do that :)
[21:01:23] <robin_sz> well, people who cant program an 80c51 :)
[21:01:42] <SWPadnos> Oh - *THOSE* people :)
[21:01:47] <robin_sz> its interestign to compare the xilinx and rabbit philosophies ...
[21:01:54] <SWPadnos> ?
[21:02:07] <robin_sz> XIlinx .. here have this AWESOME tool, free. just download it and get on.
[21:02:27] <robin_sz> it may even work for other peoples FPGAS .. like we care.
[21:02:46] <robin_sz> Rabbit: if you want to even see the C compiler, it will cost you $200..
[21:02:54] <robin_sz> Its pretty basic too.
[21:03:16] <SWPadnos> yeah - and there's no real documentation about their chip either (It's a Z80 or whatever)
[21:03:28] <robin_sz> oh its documented OK,
[21:03:53] <SWPadnos> It seemed to me that they didn't want anyone to know it was a Z80 (or 64180...) at first.
[21:04:08] <SWPadnos> So they had their special compiler, and they would only sell those modules
[21:04:13] <robin_sz> makes it tricky to program
[21:04:20] <robin_sz> if you dont know what it is
[21:04:26] <SWPadnos> now they sell the chips, so they need to have documentation
[21:04:35] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:04:47] <robin_sz> quite a cool device though
[21:05:06] <SWPadnos> yeah - it's pretty good.
[21:05:17] <robin_sz> should see it spin my steppers :)
[21:06:46] <SWPadnos> I'm sure. It's amazing what a microcontroller can do that a PC which is 500 times the clock speed can't even come close to.
[21:07:09] <robin_sz> yep. but its dedicated to a simpler task
[21:07:28] <SWPadnos> true - no USB/ethernet/user interface/audio/video/ ...
[21:07:36] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods ..
[21:07:45] <robin_sz> well, off-board USB
[21:08:16] <robin_sz> hey, wonder if I can use the spare 50% pf this spartan 3 to implement a USB driver, replace that FTDI chip?
[21:08:40] <robin_sz> nah, I guess it woud still need all the levelshifting pooh.
[21:08:50] <SWPadnos> no driver, but a logical interface might be doable.
[21:09:16] <SWPadnos> USB uses 5V, I think. I can't remember if it's differential, but I bet it isn't.
[21:09:17] <robin_sz> lemme check pricing on the ftdi
[21:10:26] <SWPadnos> there are some from National Semi. at Digikey for around $536-$5.70 (in singles)
[21:10:43] <SWPadnos> $3.30 or $3.39 in 100's
[21:11:08] <robin_sz> cheap
[21:11:48] <SWPadnos> geez - there's a TI 4-port hub chip at DK for $1.59 in SINGLE quantities.
[21:12:27] <robin_sz> coo.
[21:12:54] <robin_sz> usb is the way to go for any outboard gear these days
[21:13:13] <SWPadnos> sort of. It's not that great for realtime stuff
[21:13:25] <robin_sz> shrug
[21:13:33] <anonimasu> heh
[21:13:42] <robin_sz> theres a lot of crap talked about 'realtime'
[21:13:42] <anonimasu> usb should to about 200hz
[21:13:51] <anonimasu> err 500hz
[21:13:55] <anonimasu> at most..
[21:14:05] <SWPadnos> If you have a peripheral that can take a block of data to act on, then it's fine.
[21:14:20] <robin_sz> when do we really need realtime?
[21:14:24] <SWPadnos> you just can't rely on the 1 ms packets actually being 1ms apart.
[21:14:36] <anonimasu> that's why you need a queue..
[21:14:38] <SWPadnos> You don't on the G200x, which is why it works.
[21:14:46] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:15:17] <robin_sz> if your spindle on message is 2ms later, do you really care?
[21:15:27] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:15:47] <robin_sz> sometings, like limits, thats a differentthing
[21:15:50] <anonimasu> it's the motion part that's important.. in a case like this.. and that can be taken care of through buffering..
[21:15:53] <robin_sz> but there are ways and means
[21:16:01] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:16:03] <anonimasu> it's not like there isnt a solution to that..
[21:16:12] <anonimasu> you can even load everything to a flash memory.. on the controller..
[21:16:20] <robin_sz> quite.
[21:16:27] <anonimasu> if you really would want to..
[21:16:31] <anonimasu> err solid state..
[21:16:45] <robin_sz> plan your motion, dump the path in segements, let it get on with it.
[21:16:48] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:16:50] <anonimasu> exactly..
[21:17:00] <robin_sz> you need to see steppers on a G2002 ...
[21:17:03] <robin_sz> amazing.
[21:17:03] <SWPadnos> interrupting or "drip-feeding" might become a problem in that scenario
[21:17:40] <anonimasu> why do you see problems in everything like that?
[21:17:54] <SWPadnos> I'm an engineer :)
[21:18:12] <anonimasu> oh, you sound more like a theory engineer..
[21:18:17] <SWPadnos> (so I try to design the problems out)
[21:18:37] <SWPadnos> I am more theoretical in the motion control arena, but I've been doing hard realtime for a long time
[21:18:56] <SWPadnos> Specifically on the microcontroller end, and many devices networked to a PC
[21:20:33] <anonimasu> interrupting in which way do you mean, like aborting/pausing the program?
[21:20:41] <SWPadnos> yes.
[21:20:55] <SWPadnos> also, continuing by operator confrol
[21:21:04] <SWPadnos> like a jog wheel through the program
[21:21:05] <anonimasu> I dont get the realtime by that..
[21:21:19] <SWPadnos> (rather than an axis)
[21:21:30] <anonimasu> you can get away with the delay on that..
[21:22:13] <SWPadnos> true - it's the buffering of entire programs that could be problematic
[21:22:53] <anonimasu> hm, throw a part of the program at the controller, and have the controller request the next chunk in good time before you run out of buffer
[21:23:04] <SWPadnos> yep - that works
[21:23:21] <anonimasu> if you are short on memory.. that is
[21:23:33] <anonimasu> how fast do you mean with realtime?
[21:24:01] <SWPadnos> controlling 360 cameras with a resolution of 1 uS, over a 20-minute span
[21:24:36] <anonimasu> well, better ditch the pc and do it all in hardware :)
[21:24:51] <SWPadnos> that's what we did for the controls :)
[21:26:01] <anonimasu> yes but realtime on a mill with a jog wheel..
[21:26:41] <SWPadnos> not the same, of course
[21:27:02] <anonimasu> as far as I am concerned you could use the hardware to jog the program instead and just indicate where you are back to the pc..
[21:27:19] <anonimasu> that's as realtime as you can get it..
[21:27:57] <SWPadnos> that's as realtime as you need it. :)
[21:28:33] <robin_sz> I did think about that ... hardware wheel, quadrature pulses, backinto the G200X ... twiddel the registers ..report back to the PC
[21:28:39] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:28:48] <anonimasu> that's probably the best way to do it..
[21:29:18] <SWPadnos> essentially, the PC ends up being the display, and the G200x is the real controller
[21:29:28] <robin_sz> yeah,
[21:29:32] <anonimasu> yep
[21:29:37] <anonimasu> that's how a cnc is supposed to be run..
[21:29:38] <anonimasu> :)
[21:29:39] <SWPadnos> (display and program storage)
[21:29:41] <robin_sz> steve hardys EMC intep port on there is neat
[21:29:57] <anonimasu> can you run servos on g2002, or just steppers..
[21:30:17] <anonimasu> stepper/servos.. like xylotex/geckodrive..
[21:30:22] <anonimasu> or somthing like that..
[21:30:24] <robin_sz> indeed.
[21:30:26] <robin_sz> but ..
[21:30:44] <robin_sz> theres loads of room to do "other things"
[21:31:26] <robin_sz> basically, with a rabbit and an FPGA, you could simply implement a real swervo system
[21:31:40] <robin_sz> encoders into tcounters? piece of cake
[21:32:15] <anonimasu> I wonder if somone will do that..
[21:32:24] <robin_sz> hell, if the rabbit could write straight to the JTAG port ... well, then it gets fun :)
[21:32:43] <SWPadnos> Is Steve Hardy's source available somewhere?
[21:32:46] <robin_sz> yep
[21:32:52] <robin_sz> on Yahoo!
[21:32:53] <SWPadnos> Where, pray tell :)
[21:33:09] <SWPadnos> Oh - is that the source also?
[21:33:28] <robin_sz> http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/geckodrive/files/G2002%20Project/G2002%20Misc./
[21:33:30] <robin_sz> oh yeah,
[21:33:39] <robin_sz> opensores under GPL dude :)
[21:33:52] <SWPadnos> But of course - that's the best way.
[21:34:08] <robin_sz> g2002_alpha_3.zip
[21:34:15] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:34:23] <robin_sz> grab the 'linux source' for the gUI
[21:34:36] <SWPadnos> If only I had a G2002 :(
[21:34:44] <robin_sz> build one ;)
[21:34:57] <SWPadnos> that should be cost effective :)
[21:35:06] <anonimasu> lol
[21:35:07] <robin_sz> well, true
[21:35:29] <SWPadnos> I have a USC from JonE, and I'll be using EMC
[21:35:36] <SWPadnos> still curious about the G200x though
[21:35:49] <robin_sz> you gotta see it on steppers ...
[21:36:03] <SWPadnos> I'd love to see a motor on my machine :)
[21:36:24] <robin_sz> seen a stepper spin to 3000 rpm?
[21:36:42] <anonimasu> hm, nope, I doubt there would be any torque there anyway ;)
[21:36:50] <SWPadnos> that sounds fairly quick
[21:36:52] <roel1> hi
[21:37:01] <robin_sz> anonimasu: yeah, but with gearing ...
[21:37:05] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:37:10] <SWPadnos> hi
[21:37:19] <robin_sz> hi roel1
[21:37:46] <roel1> :)
[21:38:05] <robin_sz> anonimasu: remember , a stepepr only produce it potential power ABOVE the corner frequncy ... you have to spin em hard to get the power out
[21:38:29] <anonimasu> hm, I dont know really..
[21:38:29] <robin_sz> then gear down to make it useable
[21:38:38] <anonimasu> I just find my stepper working worse then my servos :)
[21:39:21] <robin_sz> well, you have to watch the rotor intertia on steppers
[21:39:31] <robin_sz> you have 'motioneering' package?
[21:39:37] <anonimasu> no
[21:39:41] <robin_sz> oh :)
[21:39:41] <anonimasu> I am not running fast at all..
[21:39:46] <anonimasu> and with extremely low accel..
[21:39:52] <SWPadnos> motioneering is very thorough
[21:39:57] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:40:01] <anonimasu> it's a emc bug..
[21:40:01] <anonimasu> :)
[21:40:03] <robin_sz> les introduced me to it
[21:40:04] <SWPadnos> so thorough that I don't know the answers to many of the quetions :)
[21:40:13] <robin_sz> heh
[21:40:27] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos revels in an emc topic
[21:40:38] <SWPadnos> So, anonimasu, what's the EMC issue?
[21:40:49] <anonimasu> my machine lost 0
[21:40:57] <anonimasu> or rather.. it seems to have put a offset on 0..
[21:41:13] <SWPadnos> OK - was this discussed briefly on the list?
[21:41:22] <SWPadnos> (checking into G92 or some such)
[21:41:27] <anonimasu> or emc2 issue rather..
[21:41:40] <anonimasu> since that's what I run..
[21:42:05] <anonimasu> I havent mailed the list about it, since I just found out about it..
[21:42:32] <SWPadnos> OK - I think there was something recently about an offset being introduced, like a G-code to set the current position
[21:43:00] <SWPadnos> I'm going to start working on EMC2 now that paul_c has helped me get a version that I can compile
[21:43:13] <SWPadnos> (kernel 2.6.9, emc2, etc)
[21:43:14] <anonimasu> :)
[21:43:23] <anonimasu> it happened in the middle of my program after doing some holes..
[21:44:03] <SWPadnos> so - it just decided taht it was at a different Z?
[21:44:11] <anonimasu> yep
[21:44:13] <robin_sz> that or the steppers skipped a bit
[21:44:48] <anonimasu> skipping isnt possible...
[21:45:00] <anonimasu> emc didnt return to 0..
[21:45:15] <anonimasu> even when I entered the MDI mode and entered g0 z0
[21:45:38] <SWPadnos> the display didn't say 0?
[21:45:41] <anonimasu> nope
[21:45:47] <anonimasu> it goes down to -13
[21:45:51] <anonimasu> instead of up to 0
[21:45:53] <SWPadnos> what output module are you using?
[21:45:59] <SWPadnos> (freqmod, etc)
[21:46:02] <anonimasu> core_stepper.hal
[21:46:26] <SWPadnos> OK. (I have no idea what that means right now, but I might tomorrow)
[21:46:38] <anonimasu> it's the hal module for steppers..
[21:46:47] <anonimasu> ;)
[21:46:51] <SWPadnos> Is it a direct phase output?
[21:46:54] <anonimasu> no
[21:47:00] <anonimasu> it's step & dir output..
[21:47:07] <SWPadnos> It's the replacement for freqmod?
[21:47:13] <SWPadnos> (or steppermod)
[21:47:18] <anonimasu> I think that's it
[21:47:30] <SWPadnos> any feedback?
[21:47:48] <SWPadnos> nevermind
[21:47:50] <anonimasu> no
[21:49:13] <anonimasu> I dont think feedback would matter..
[21:49:27] <SWPadnos> It does if you actually have it :)
[21:49:35] <anonimasu> yeah..
[21:49:48] <SWPadnos> I think EMC always uses feedback, it's just "synthesized" if you use the stepper output modules
[21:49:57] <anonimasu> yeah that's true..
[21:50:07] <anonimasu> ferror and min_ferror
[21:50:18] <robin_sz> in theory, adding external enocders shoudl be relatively simple then?
[21:50:29] <anonimasu> yeah..
[21:50:33] <SWPadnos> presumably the position display is the same if you toggle between actual / commanded position
[21:50:47] <robin_sz> but ... I bet the mess of the emc code makes it icky
[21:50:53] <SWPadnos> yes - that's the great thing about the USC - it provides real feedback to the EMC control loop
[21:50:54] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I dont think so..
[21:50:59] <robin_sz> maybe HAL will make it dwonderful :)
[21:51:00] <anonimasu> robin_sz: you could implemet that into the hal module..
[21:51:06] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:51:09] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:51:13] <anonimasu> and just read the registers(counters)
[21:51:20] <robin_sz> this is EMC2 of course
[21:51:25] <robin_sz> now in emc1 ...
[21:51:26] <anonimasu> I could hook my enc's up with that..
[21:51:27] <anonimasu> :D
[21:51:28] <robin_sz> * robin_sz shudders
[21:51:38] <anonimasu> just convert the level.. first.. and then into the counters..
[21:51:40] <anonimasu> and into the pc..
[21:52:05] <SWPadnos> http://www.pico-systems.com.motion.html :)
[21:52:13] <SWPadnos> (/motion.html)
[21:52:43] <anonimasu> I'll be doing loads of dev once I get my machine running enough so I get time over to stop messing with getting my parts machines
[21:52:46] <anonimasu> machined ;)
[21:53:12] <anonimasu> oh, that gecko interface seems nice
[21:53:36] <SWPadnos> Yeah - the problem I have is that it's hard to make the parts for the machine to be CNC'ed
[21:53:44] <SWPadnos> befoer it's a CNC
[21:53:52] <anonimasu> yep..
[21:53:58] <anonimasu> I have my machine running very nicely..
[21:54:05] <anonimasu> but I have some parts for work I need to machine
[21:54:18] <anonimasu> so I am in trouble :
[21:54:19] <anonimasu> :)
[21:54:25] <paul_c> SWPadnos: That reminds me.... Did you get a chance to test last night's work ?
[21:54:49] <SWPadnos> I just burned the BDI-4.16, I'm about to install on the EMC box.
[21:56:38] <anonimasu> I think leaving the parts out to be machined would probably be cheaper then messing with it by hand..
[21:56:42] <anonimasu> unless you are great :9
[21:57:20] <SWPadnos> I;m lucky enough to have a big rotary table, so some things get easier
[21:57:48] <SWPadnos> (who keeps putting the semicolon where the apostrophe is supposed to be? )
[21:58:09] <anonimasu> I cant wait for my boring head to arrive, so I can re-make my motor mounts..
[21:58:10] <anonimasu> :)
[21:58:22] <SWPadnos> how boring
[21:58:40] <anonimasu> so I can get better ballscrews..
[21:58:53] <SWPadnos> I've got a design that doesn't require me to bore any precise holes
[21:58:58] <SWPadnos> (other than the location)
[21:59:42] <anonimasu> oh, I am going to push the back of the motor through the hole..
[21:59:50] <anonimasu> and mount the motor on the table edge..
[22:00:00] <SWPadnos> Calmping on the face plate?
[22:00:04] <SWPadnos> clamping...
[22:00:08] <anonimasu> in the keyway. on the side..
[22:00:39] <anonimasu> err mount the mounts in the keyway of the side of the table..
[22:00:54] <SWPadnos> what type of machine?
[22:01:00] <anonimasu> bench mill..
[22:01:09] <anonimasu> I am trying to save space.. as much as I can..
[22:01:41] <anonimasu> ideally I'd go for backslash free gearboxes that would mount directly to the motor and then a coupler and into the screw..
[22:01:44] <anonimasu> onto..
[22:02:09] <anonimasu> but the gearboxes are like $800 each :)
[22:02:35] <SWPadnos> well - that could be a problem
[22:03:24] <anonimasu> I think that mounting would be pretty good..
[22:03:39] <SWPadnos> What I can't stand is that even if you get good deals on some stuff (like on eBay), you still get screwed on other things.
[22:03:51] <SWPadnos> I got 3 servos, 28 in-lb for $325
[22:04:01] <anonimasu> nice deal :9
[22:04:02] <anonimasu> :)
[22:04:05] <SWPadnos> I've spent more on the MIL-C-5015 connectors than I did on the motors
[22:04:25] <anonimasu> I've learned that being cheap is a bad deal..
[22:04:33] <anonimasu> I broke my vise a while back..
[22:04:35] <SWPadnos> It's also impossible :0
[22:04:40] <anonimasu> because I bought a cheap one..
[22:04:51] <anonimasu> and milled the base flat..
[22:05:07] <anonimasu> I took off maybe 0.05.. all over it :)
[22:05:35] <SWPadnos> was that like half the thickness? :)
[22:05:39] <anonimasu> no
[22:05:58] <anonimasu> the thickness was like 1.2cm cast iron..
[22:06:03] <anonimasu> err of cast iron..
[22:06:15] <SWPadnos> it seems like that should have held up
[22:06:18] <anonimasu> but when I clamped some alu in it it broke on half..
[22:06:30] <anonimasu> since there was a bit of overhang..
[22:06:42] <SWPadnos> bummer
[22:07:02] <anonimasu> the good vise I bought now came with a swivel base.. and it's mounted like that.. with the end hanging in the air..
[22:07:10] <anonimasu> :)
[22:07:25] <SWPadnos> I got lucky - a 6" Kurt came with my milling machine :)
[22:07:38] <anonimasu> I bought a vertex vk5
[22:07:39] <anonimasu> :)
[22:08:18] <anonimasu> I like vertex.. specially when I bought my rotary table and it came with a measurement protocol..
[22:09:02] <anonimasu> 6" is a bit larger then what would it my machine :)
[22:11:00] <anonimasu> kurt are nice vises :)
[22:11:13] <SWPadnos> nice and heavy
[22:11:26] <anonimasu> how much does a 6" weigh?
[22:11:27] <SWPadnos> (but not as heavy as the 15" troyke rotary table :) )
[22:11:34] <SWPadnos> about 85 pounds
[22:11:42] <anonimasu> how many kg is that?
[22:11:45] <anonimasu> approx?
[22:11:49] <anonimasu> I dont know pounds :)
[22:11:51] <SWPadnos> 40
[22:12:15] <anonimasu> ah ok
[22:12:15] <anonimasu> nice
[22:12:21] <anonimasu> my vise was 13 kg :)
[22:12:35] <SWPadnos> (the rotary table is around 60 kg)
[22:12:40] <anonimasu> ouch
[22:12:41] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:12:57] <SWPadnos> yeah - be very careful of toes when placing this on the mill
[22:13:54] <anonimasu> I cant wait to get my mill running good so I can start building a toolchanger robot.
[22:14:04] <anonimasu> more fun projects ;)
[22:14:39] <SWPadnos> that should be cool.
[22:14:43] <SWPadnos> Now I'm annoyed.
[22:15:17] <SWPadnos> I grabbed the latest BDI ISO from my shell account on my web host
[22:15:39] <SWPadnos> and after 3 hours of transfer time, I finally notice that I grabbed 4.14 instead of 4.16
[22:15:45] <SWPadnos> argh
[22:15:48] <anonimasu> :/
[22:15:53] <SWPadnos> (closer to 4 hours)
[22:16:07] <anonimasu> I only need to find some way to get my spindle to BT(somthing) instead or morse taper..
[22:16:19] <anonimasu> annoying
[22:16:28] <SWPadnos> Is that possible on a bench mill?
[22:16:35] <SWPadnos> the BT tapers are fairly large
[22:16:46] <anonimasu> or some smaller one with retainer knobs..
[22:16:56] <paul_c> anonimasu: What type of mill ?
[22:17:26] <anonimasu> benchtop
[22:17:44] <paul_c> Seig ? X2 ?
[22:17:54] <anonimasu> nope.. some other brand..
[22:17:57] <anonimasu> I dont know what it is.. :)
[22:19:18] <anonimasu> paul_c: way too small..
[22:19:18] <paul_c> http://www.siegind.com/mill-y.htm - Any of those ?
[22:20:17] <anonimasu> x4 is the closest..
[22:20:41] <anonimasu> but still much much smaller
[22:21:39] <paul_c> Reckon you must have an RF30 type then...
[22:21:47] <anonimasu> maybe..
[22:21:58] <anonimasu> the motor is a 2hp 320v one
[22:23:29] <anonimasu> does that tell more about the size?
[22:23:46] <SWPadnos> That's the same size as on my Bridgeport :)
[22:24:03] <SWPadnos> (in HP)
[22:24:15] <anonimasu> :)
[22:24:40] <anonimasu> about 1.7kw..
[22:25:15] <SWPadnos> I have a Bridgeport 2J vari-speed head - its 2 HP (1.5Kw, plus losses)
[22:25:22] <anonimasu> ok
[22:25:23] <anonimasu> :)
[22:25:36] <paul_c> http://www.m-cad.com/dp/shop/mill-0.htm
[22:25:48] <anonimasu> I just wish for a toolchanger..
[22:25:49] <anonimasu> :)
[22:26:01] <anonimasu> yep
[22:26:13] <anonimasu> somthing like taht..
[22:28:11] <SWPadnos> Hmmm - maybe the time remaining display on the BDI install should update more freqeuently.
[22:28:27] <SWPadnos> (or i should get a faster computer)
[22:28:43] <paul_c> anonimasu: You may be able to order an R8 spindle from the supplier...
[22:29:06] <SWPadnos> Then you'd have an upgrade path to a Bridgeport :)
[22:29:22] <robin_sz> hmm .. so to go from 3.3v on the spartan to 5v on the rabbit, I guess some sort of funky buffer is needed
[22:29:47] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:30:11] <anonimasu> I dont think there's somthing like that for my mill..
[22:30:44] <anonimasu> but I could throw the spindle in to be turned out and then have it ground to size..
[22:31:07] <SWPadnos> Just buy a Bridgeport if you decide you really want R8
[22:31:16] <SWPadnos> It's probably less money than getting the spindle reground
[22:31:20] <anonimasu> lol...
[22:31:28] <anonimasu> you have no idea on the prices over here.
[22:31:44] <SWPadnos> Ah - I take it labor is cheap "here"
[22:32:00] <SWPadnos> (or shipping is expensive)
[22:32:01] <anonimasu> no, take it as mills cost your firstborn..
[22:32:04] <anonimasu> :)
[22:32:13] <anonimasu> a decent mill is about 40000sek
[22:32:27] <anonimasu> about 6000$
[22:32:49] <SWPadnos> Ah - Sweden.
[22:33:20] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[22:33:25] <anonimasu> so it's super expensive..
[22:34:29] <anonimasu> that's used mills..
[22:34:33] <anonimasu> err worn mills..
[22:34:41] <SWPadnos> used up mills :)
[22:34:53] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:34:58] <anonimasu> so buying a new one isnt a option :)
[22:35:07] <anonimasu> I dont have space for it either..
[22:35:20] <anonimasu> but well, at work.. ;)
[22:35:37] <anonimasu> but for that price I could grab a VMC off ebay and ship it here..
[22:36:03] <SWPadnos> If so, then you could also get a Bridgeport off ebay and ship it there.
[22:36:21] <SWPadnos> I've seen several in England - you could rent a truck and take the Chunnel
[22:36:33] <anonimasu> yeah but if I am going to ship somthing I culd buy a huge vmc.. instead..
[22:36:54] <anonimasu> since I'd have to rent a container to ship it..
[22:37:16] <SWPadnos> true - if the cost of the merchandise is lost in the round-off error of the shipping fees, then it doesn't really matter what the machine costs :)
[22:37:37] <anonimasu> yep
[22:38:18] <SWPadnos> robin_sz: level shifters can be as simple as an open collector buffer
[22:38:56] <anonimasu> I'd love to have a huge VMC..
[22:39:02] <anonimasu> *grins*
[22:39:15] <SWPadnos> and a huge warehouse / power bill / staff, etc :)
[22:39:17] <anonimasu> I like the thought about having 1,3t at the table..
[22:39:45] <anonimasu> it's 5m to the roof at my fathers company..(where I work)
[22:40:21] <anonimasu> um it's higher then 5m..
[22:40:32] <anonimasu> fits forest machines anyway :)
[22:41:15] <SWPadnos> that's probably enough space.
[22:41:25] <SWPadnos> Maybe you should make those motor mounts now :)
[22:41:27] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: oh, that simple
[22:41:42] <anonimasu> I am waitig for the boring head to arrive :)
[22:41:44] <SWPadnos> can be - it depends on whether you need bidirectional or not
[22:41:53] <robin_sz> nah
[22:42:20] <anonimasu> I cant mill a perfect circle..
[22:42:20] <SWPadnos> I think the spartans are 5V tolerant - you may want to check that
[22:42:22] <anonimasu> :)
[22:42:28] <robin_sz> hehe
[22:42:33] <anonimasu> yet
[22:42:34] <SWPadnos> find the center of your spinning vise :)
[22:42:45] <robin_sz> ive configured the ops as lvcmos ..
[22:42:48] <anonimasu> it wont be spinning for long ;)
[22:43:07] <anonimasu> * anonimasu dosent like swivel bases..
[22:43:19] <anonimasu> I'll wait for the boring head to arrive :)
[22:44:19] <anonimasu> or well first wait for emc to start obeying ;)
[22:44:46] <gezr> paul_c : are you still up?
[22:45:16] <paul_c> Of course.
[22:45:44] <gezr> paul_c : should I use a blue thread locker on just about every bolt in the engine?
[22:46:17] <paul_c> not needed.
[22:46:33] <gezr> I found my glass bead magnet and took care of that issue today after work, and set the crank back in the block with a nice coat of assembly lube :).....Okay, cool
[22:46:45] <anonimasu> :)
[22:46:46] <paul_c> bigend & cylinder head bolts are torqued dry
[22:47:10] <anonimasu> well, goodnight everyone
[22:47:22] <gezr> they looked as if they were dry
[22:47:50] <gezr> time now to go ahead and order the new con rod bolts, and get some torque wrenches
[22:48:30] <SWPadnos> night
[22:48:37] <paul_c> The only bolts I would use loctite on would be the output flange geabox nut on a boxer
[22:49:37] <gezr> those seemed to have a coating, or the ones that hold the output shaft up. the biger ones that are over the journals
[22:49:43] <paul_c> You also want to get an angular gauge in addition to the torque wrench
[22:50:00] <gezr> yeah, im somewhat dreading that part,
[22:50:09] <paul_c> 'tis easy
[22:50:42] <gezr> you think If I make a suitable accessory to use in place of the special one they have, that I would do just fine?
[22:51:10] <gezr> its only for the con rods
[22:51:34] <robin_sz> someting drawn on a bit of card will do
[22:51:39] <paul_c> Go to your local auto parts store - They will have all the tools you need without BMW prices.
[22:53:22] <gezr> there is one torque spec I do not understand in the manual, the output shaft or the clutch, its final torque spec is lower then the initial, is that correct?
[22:53:52] <paul_c> lemme grab the manual.
[22:54:24] <gezr> its one of them nuts Ill need to buy a brand new one of as well
[22:54:39] <gezr> special thing it is
[22:56:20] <gezr> mine shows initial 103, final 65-82 ft-lbs.
[22:57:08] <paul_c> manual says "Tighten nut to initial setting to seat the O ring. Completely loosen the nut and then tighten to the final torque setting"
[22:57:17] <SWPadnos> paul_c: do you have alistof the packages that need to be added to BDI-4.16 to allow development?
[22:57:23] <SWPadnos> a list of
[22:58:43] <paul_c> nope - I found apt-getting tk8.4-dev installed most of them...
[22:58:52] <SWPadnos> ok.
[22:59:00] <paul_c> I need to put a list together.
[22:59:16] <paul_c> kernel soruce is on the CD.
[22:59:31] <paul_c> make sure you install gcc-2.95
[23:00:49] <gezr> if you have gcc-3.xx installed, just make a new symlink to 2.95...thats what I had to do
[23:01:18] <paul_c> Not neede with the latest BDI
[23:01:25] <roel1> im off to bed
[23:01:31] <roel1> cu all folks
[23:01:42] <gezr> paul_c : thanks, about the bike, that one spec seemed strange to me.
[23:01:44] <paul_c> configure picks up on the correct version.
[23:02:37] <paul_c> gezr: Which state are you in again ?
[23:03:07] <gezr> Arkansas
[23:04:39] <gezr> if I get the bike all fixed up, Im going to try and make a trip to see Les
[23:05:19] <robin_sz> dont forget a copy of "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance"
[23:06:26] <gezr> im trying to do the best job I can do, so that I get something finished.. and let my dad see that I didnt destroy it completely. so far things are going well.
[23:06:44] <robin_sz> yes.
[23:06:59] <robin_sz> but there again .. you havent started it up yet ;)
[23:07:12] <gezr> no, there is a lot of work yet to do :)
[23:07:12] <robin_sz> wait till that glass bead gets going in the oilways ..
[23:07:24] <gezr> I used my magnet :)
[23:07:34] <robin_sz> your glass magnet?
[23:07:39] <gezr> yep
[23:07:43] <robin_sz> heh
[23:07:46] <gezr> hahahaha :)
[23:08:25] <gezr> I know your right, and no mater what I do, I may yet rip it all to pieces, and that bridge with either be crossed, or burned
[23:09:02] <robin_sz> an air hose and some long bits of welding rod
[23:09:06] <robin_sz> some twist drills ..
[23:10:10] <gezr> im going to try and run oil in the system before im finished up
[23:10:22] <robin_sz> good idea
[23:10:44] <robin_sz> get those bits of bead right up to the shell bearings ;)
[23:10:48] <gezr> thats the only way to be as close to clean I can get
[23:10:53] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is a little ray of sunshine
[23:11:04] <robin_sz> im sure it will be fine
[23:11:20] <robin_sz> BWAHAHAHAHHHA
[23:11:21] <gezr> .|.. :)
[23:11:23] <robin_sz> oops :)
[23:11:25] <gezr> hahaha
[23:12:01] <gezr> robin_sz : there are those who believe its sacrament not to re bead anything on a bmw, during a rebuild/restoration
[23:12:36] <robin_sz> yeah well, bead is great, but a complete bastard if you get it insdie the engine
[23:12:56] <gezr> I washed and washed and washed and washed again today
[23:13:00] <gezr> even full air blow
[23:13:22] <robin_sz> should be fine ...
[23:13:33] <robin_sz> you tink you kept it out of the oilways?
[23:13:34] <gezr> I was not able to see any remaining beads, the other day, when I saw a few beads, I had only half assed the cleaning, now I know what I need to do
[23:13:51] <gezr> the oilways were hand swabbed
[23:14:10] <robin_sz> but you tink there might have been some got in there?
[23:14:45] <gezr> none at all in the oil ways, I tapped everything off, the place that those beads were in , was an area that had a contamanation issue
[23:14:59] <robin_sz> 'k
[23:15:08] <gezr> I protected everything I could
[23:15:14] <robin_sz> well, I look forward to hearing the reports when it runs
[23:15:18] <robin_sz> new rings?
[23:15:25] <gezr> getting those as well
[23:15:37] <gezr> I dont have a bore guage, but the pistons are marked with a B
[23:16:12] <gezr> .0006 varance is just not fun to measure without exact equipment
[23:16:30] <robin_sz> is that the difference between grades?
[23:16:33] <gezr> ill check the gaps, and that should fall into the range
[23:16:41] <gezr> yeah, if not a bit smaller
[23:16:52] <robin_sz> well, it will have worn more than that anyway
[23:17:11] <gezr> it still has the original hone marks in the nakisal
[23:17:16] <gezr> nakasil
[23:17:18] <gezr> whatever
[23:17:23] <robin_sz> nikasil
[23:17:24] <gezr> and a few interesting gouge lines
[23:17:32] <robin_sz> heh
[23:17:49] <robin_sz> difficult to get replated
[23:17:56] <gezr> but they dont run the length, and they were made during the first 10 years of its life
[23:18:06] <robin_sz> very very few places do it right
[23:18:41] <gezr> im going to make it look good, run right, drive, like a fearing removed RT should, and not burn oil
[23:18:44] <SWPadnos> what the heck are you guys talking about? :)
[23:18:50] <SWPadnos> (BMW motorcycles?)
[23:18:55] <robin_sz> fairing
[23:18:57] <gezr> im rebuilding my bike
[23:18:59] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:19:06] <SWPadnos> Ah - OK.
[23:19:07] <gezr> oh my, cant believe I misspelled that
[23:19:10] <robin_sz> gezr has 3/4s of a K
[23:19:13] <gezr> SWPadnos : www.masternode.net/gallery
[23:19:39] <gezr> SWPadnos : I think robin_sz is fibbing, I have what seems to be a million pieces
[23:20:06] <gezr> oh I got the powdercoating tape on friday :)
[23:20:34] <robin_sz> ooh special tape!
[23:20:36] <gezr> interesting stuff, its a strange clearish green from echo supply, doesnt say what exact type it is, but I think its good for 204C
[23:20:41] <robin_sz> I use "masking tape"
[23:20:56] <robin_sz> it burns up an all, but hey
[23:21:02] <gezr> the guy at the coater gave me a spool
[23:21:07] <robin_sz> nice
[23:21:24] <gezr> the crank, while untorqued but tightened down, turns smoothly
[23:21:42] <robin_sz> gonna plastigage it?
[23:21:49] <gezr> ill toss an indicator on it and check the plays in a bit, i have a .0001 graduated unit
[23:22:03] <gezr> robin_sz : if I did that, I would probably have to replace the bearings
[23:22:11] <robin_sz> nah
[23:22:23] <robin_sz> plastigage is proven technology
[23:22:28] <robin_sz> very, very soft
[23:22:31] <gezr> I did consider doing that
[23:22:44] <robin_sz> it wont damage the indium
[23:23:10] <gezr> im not talking about it damaging anything, but im sure I would freakout over a small variance, and then get stuck in a mindfark debating spending money
[23:23:21] <robin_sz> ohh :)
[23:23:38] <gezr> you know, im wanting to do it right, but I cant really afford that
[23:23:54] <robin_sz> well, just do it as best you can then
[23:24:01] <robin_sz> if it aint broke ...
[23:24:28] <gezr> 60k miles, i would expect to see some issues, they recomend new rings at 50k, so thats that, the oil/water pump is shot, was gonna buy that this week, needed to pay car insurance, no pump on order
[23:24:44] <robin_sz> heh
[23:24:52] <gezr> I paid my car stuff in full
[23:24:59] <robin_sz> good plan
[23:25:04] <gezr> a bit cheaper
[23:25:09] <SWPadnos> that looks like a PITA or a lot of fun
[23:25:17] <gezr> its just agravation
[23:25:21] <gezr> sorta like a machine tool
[23:25:29] <SWPadnos> exactly :)
[23:25:34] <gezr> I could be spending all this money on making a machine
[23:25:47] <gezr> but that doesnt make the soul right
[23:25:49] <SWPadnos> so you could make motorcycle parts ...
[23:26:04] <robin_sz> its always fun to strip it right down and rebuild it . if only for the moment where it springs to life again
[23:26:10] <robin_sz> I *love* that bit
[23:26:31] <gezr> I used to have a lot of projects going on at once, now Im trying to be more focused with life and projects
[23:26:38] <gezr> robin_sz : yeah, thats the best part
[23:27:05] <robin_sz> my wife still remembers when I started the ducati after a big rebuild
[23:27:22] <robin_sz> it was in the living room at the time
[23:27:28] <gezr> I could be doing all of this and it not run, because of a faulty ignition control unit, and then I can just cry, cause I didnt bid on the ebay one the other day
[23:27:47] <gezr> bosch is very very proud
[23:28:04] <paul_c> * paul_c packs one up to post to gezr
[23:28:08] <gezr> I would have to find a way to make emc do it at that point.
[23:28:17] <robin_sz> heh
[23:28:25] <robin_sz> or run Megasquirt
[23:28:47] <robin_sz> it would make a very neat megasquirt project
[23:28:53] <gezr> paul_c : im serious, ICU, airflow, and the other iginiton dohickie are my real wories
[23:29:17] <robin_sz> http://www.megasquirt.info/
[23:29:25] <gezr> robin_sz : with all the talk about glass, sand, and lint. the electronics scare me to death
[23:29:30] <paul_c> 8 valve engine ?
[23:29:46] <gezr> yeah its a 8valve, made in 84
[23:30:02] <robin_sz> bits are comon in the UK
[23:30:21] <paul_c> I can box up all the ignition/injection stuff and haul it over in April
[23:30:45] <SWPadnos> Hmmm - I'm trying to get development software installed, and apt-get dies looking for ldconfig
[23:30:58] <paul_c> * paul_c remembers an important point.....
[23:31:02] <SWPadnos> I can't install the ldso package, because apt-get wants ldconfig to get it
[23:31:05] <gezr> SWPadnos : apt-cache search ldconfig
[23:31:17] <SWPadnos> did that - no matches
[23:31:21] <SWPadnos> google said ldso
[23:31:33] <SWPadnos> apt-get won;t install it because there's no ldconfig
[23:32:09] <paul_c> gezr: The coupling for the alternator - Loctite the bolt in place... It is the only one I would do.
[23:32:20] <gezr> paul_c : okay
[23:32:25] <SWPadnos> I think the path isn't set up correctly for root in the KDE terminal
[23:32:48] <paul_c> use a tty terminal
[23:32:52] <robin_sz> just log into a real term then
[23:33:03] <paul_c> or use synaptic
[23:33:13] <robin_sz> ctrl-alt-f[1..6]
[23:33:39] <SWPadnos> it's fine in shell #1, /sbin etc aren't in hte path in shell #2
[23:33:44] <SWPadnos> that's a pain
[23:33:45] <gezr> ldso provides ldconfig
[23:33:55] <SWPadnos> There's the rub :)
[23:34:11] <gezr> hmm
[23:34:34] <gezr> in your secondary shell, if you run bash you should pull your environment into the new shell
[23:35:04] <SWPadnos> I just did a "New Shell" from the KTerm menu
[23:35:10] <SWPadnos> sorry - Konsole
[23:36:25] <SWPadnos> Well - that was my fault - I'm used to just doing a "source /etc/profile" to get directory colorization and other things
[23:36:26] <gezr> paul_c : I have district court jury duity during the full month of march, and It could become an extended time. I wish I could be done with the bike during that month, and have spare cash to make the trip up to the codefest, maybe next year.
[23:36:53] <SWPadnos> it just doesn't have a check for root when setting the path
[23:37:11] <gezr> there is no login per say
[23:37:14] <paul_c> The codefest isn't until the end of April.
[23:38:20] <SWPadnos> paul_c: that should give me ample time to get used to Linux again :)
[23:38:51] <SWPadnos> (looks like I need it)
[23:39:14] <paul_c> how were you getting root access through a term ?
[23:39:21] <paul_c> su or su - ?
[23:39:28] <SWPadnos> I logged in as root (you know me)
[23:40:30] <paul_c> we need to break you out of that habit ;-�
[23:41:41] <gezr> its not a habit, its an adventure :)
[23:41:52] <SWPadnos> I'll log in as a normal user once all the devel packages are installed
[23:47:27] <SWPadnos> ARGH.
[23:48:52] <paul_c> wassup ?
[23:49:20] <SWPadnos> sorry - just having trouble finding source code and/or packages to install to get development up and running
[23:51:54] <paul_c> I need to put a list together, or create a metapackage with all the deps.
[23:52:06] <SWPadnos> it would be helpful :)
[23:52:27] <SWPadnos> I installed tk8.4-dev
[23:52:46] <SWPadnos> then rtai-doc, rtai-source, cvs
[23:53:13] <paul_c> you don't need rtai-source
[23:53:18] <SWPadnos> I don't seem to have the kernel source (though the headers are there, so I guess that's OK)
[23:53:32] <paul_c> the kernel-source is on the CD
[23:53:40] <paul_c> apt-cdrom add
[23:54:14] <paul_c> apt-get install rtai-dev
[23:56:06] <SWPadnos> Ah - apt-cdrom - there's a missing link :)
[23:56:15] <SWPadnos> (I had gotten used to emerge on Gentoo)
[23:56:49] <paul_c> man -k apt
[23:57:55] <SWPadnos> It's also not helpful that this computer has a 12" , 800x600 LCD
[23:59:08] <paul_c> marginally better than the screen on the test box.
[23:59:48] <SWPadnos> is there an EMC source .deb, or should I use CVS for that?