#emc | Logs for 2005-02-02

[00:05:54] <robin_sz> meep!
[00:06:24] <robin_sz> * robin_sz has played more with the G2002 now :)
[00:07:19] <robin_sz> if as many people as viewed the Wiki, edited or added to the Wiki, it would be about 8 times the size and with 1/10th the number of spelling mistakes by now :)
[00:14:00] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz... wanna pass me the g2002? :) I got my mill up... just have to power it on... and I'll do that in a bit... watching science news.
[00:14:02] <A-L-P-H-A> <-- geek
[00:14:24] <A-L-P-H-A> where's the wiki for the g2002?
[00:49:27] <paul_c> yay.. USB zip drives work with BDI-4.12
[01:38:50] <robin_sz> * robin_sz sighs
[01:39:22] <robin_sz> hmm ... this Dynamic C compiler seems to need a 'serial number' ... whatever that is
[01:39:31] <robin_sz> * robin_sz tries 'com 3'
[02:05:23] <CIA-temp045> CIA-temp045 is now known as CIA-10
[02:51:06] <CIA-temp927> CIA-temp927 is now known as CIA-7
[02:56:35] <hyde> Hello anyone here?
[02:57:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm kinda here... but going to my shop in a sec.
[02:58:16] <hyde> Do you know if powerpath is supported in RHEL 3.0? Can it be used with Oracle?
[03:04:59] <jepler> probably the wrong channel to ask
[03:05:11] <jepler> maybe you want #redhat or something?
[03:05:50] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A is lost
[03:06:13] <hyde> per redhat, it would not support emc software.
[03:06:42] <jepler> I don't know what powerpath is, but this channel isn't about RHEL or Oracle
[03:07:15] <hyde> is this channel about emc.com?
[03:07:30] <jepler> #emc is not related to the software described here: http://www.oracle.com/ecostructure/blueprint_res/design_components_powerpath.htm
[03:07:42] <jepler> #emc is about software that controls CNC machines
[03:07:57] <jepler> see linuxcnc.org
[03:08:01] <hyde> sorry, wrong place ..
[03:08:07] <jepler> no problem
[03:10:22] <jepler> cradek was talking about an interesting idea earlier: full-stepping is supposed to give more torque than half-stepping, but the problem is that motor resonance means the motor loses torque at a particular RPM speed
[03:11:22] <jepler> so why not use full-stepping except at the resonance frequency, possibly by manipulating the full/half step input of the stepper controller
[03:15:23] <jepler> interesting graphs at http://www.euclidres.com/apps/stepper_motor/stepper.html
[03:19:54] <jepler> http://www.sapiensman.com/step_motor/stepping%20motors.htm#resonance
[03:45:17] <A-L-P-H-A> power on... NOTHING blew! :) hehe good.
[03:51:32] <gezr> my vacume system sorta works :)
[03:52:06] <gezr> I dont have the power to pull through my little tube filter things so who knows how it will work once I blast but its cool :)
[03:57:18] <cradek> jepler: I guess we're the only ones who thought it was interesting
[03:58:22] <gezr> im not at the console to check much out tonight
[04:18:39] <gezr> sweet, It works perfectly
[04:22:35] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, the blast cabinet?
[04:22:39] <gezr> yeah
[04:23:12] <A-L-P-H-A> cool
[04:23:47] <gezr> its not a perfect seal, and the damn wood is self destructing a bit but other then that, its really easy to see, easy to get to the work piece, and its really nice, I have new suction tube to install, and new air line to the gun to install, the sections I have now are really short, and my breath is fogging up the glass
[04:24:33] <gezr> oh and my super suck, doesnt really have the suck, but I dont see any leaks into the atmosphere so Im happy :)
[04:25:56] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, so you should have used sheet metal? :)
[04:26:09] <gezr> of course :)
[04:26:15] <A-L-P-H-A> hehehe. :)
[04:26:21] <gezr> I knew that from the get go
[04:26:34] <gezr> but for let me see, can I exclude tools I had to get?
[04:26:48] <A-L-P-H-A> well... my mill powers up... haven't sent it a Zaxis step/direction pulse yet...
[04:27:09] <gezr> well for about 200 I save 800 bucks :)
[04:27:11] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, harbour frieght has cheap sheet metal benders from time to time.
[04:27:24] <A-L-P-H-A> they'd usually do the trick
[04:27:30] <gezr> this thing only has to last for abour 10 more parts :)
[04:28:22] <A-L-P-H-A> oh... that's silly now to me.
[04:28:34] <gezr> why is that?
[04:28:39] <gezr> and sweet about your mill :)
[04:29:03] <A-L-P-H-A> umm... it's like why not just pass it to some bodyshop to sandblast the parts for you? [or did you have fun building it?]
[04:29:41] <gezr> I just wanted to have the fun building it, and if I make a mistake its my mistake :)
[04:29:58] <A-L-P-H-A> what did you use for the transparent window?
[04:30:21] <gezr> tempered glass about 1/4 inch thick with a mylar liner stuck on the inside
[04:30:48] <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
[04:31:43] <gezr> I guess if I included my time on the thing, it just got really expensive, but I got to do stuff Ive never really done before
[04:31:56] <A-L-P-H-A> that's cool though.]
[04:32:15] <A-L-P-H-A> For me, I have access to a bodyshop to get stuff sandblasted... it'd just be me bringing some beer. :)
[04:33:12] <gezr> I dont know many shops, Im sure i could find one to do it, or do it at, this setup is perfect, just the right pressure everything
[04:33:28] <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
[04:33:32] <A-L-P-H-A> glad it worked out for you.
[04:39:10] <gezr> i have to go to sleep now, clean up time tommrow, then back to rebuilding :)
[04:41:09] <A-L-P-H-A> later
[05:09:09] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight... all axis on the mill are running. :) SWEET
[05:09:31] <A-L-P-H-A> now to measure the backlash.
[08:11:31] <A-L-P-H-A> hello...
[08:45:50] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[08:45:51] <anonimasu> hello
[08:49:10] <robin_sz> 'ello
[08:57:52] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[08:57:55] <anonimasu> err
[08:58:00] <anonimasu> what's up?
[08:58:19] <anonimasu> I am writing a algorithm for positioning a huydralic cylinder..
[08:58:30] <anonimasu> for a racecar for a handicapped guy
[08:58:58] <robin_sz> hmmm
[09:00:26] <anonimasu> somthing like a PID loop..
[09:01:08] <anonimasu> if expected position is higher then the position apply more gain to make up for it
[09:12:10] <anonimasu> :)
[09:15:27] <A-L-P-H-A> morning folks.
[09:16:52] <anonimasu> good morning alpha
[09:16:59] <A-L-P-H-A> hey, I got a question, electrical.
[09:17:12] <A-L-P-H-A> You know how AC, there's a live, dead and ground.
[09:17:12] <A-L-P-H-A> Lets say I'm making a power supply... I have the dead and live going to a transformer...
[09:17:12] <A-L-P-H-A> Wall Socket -> Transformer (120VAC to 60VAC) to a bridge rectifier -> to some medium sized caps to filter out the DC current.
[09:17:12] <A-L-P-H-A> Now my question is, I know I should hook the ground from the wall to frame of the case,
[09:17:12] <A-L-P-H-A> which in turn is touching the transformer.
[09:17:13] <A-L-P-H-A> My question is should I hook the ground/NEGATIVE on the bridge rectifier / DC segment to the chassis/wall ground as well? Is this the proper way?
[09:17:45] <anonimasu> I have no idea really
[09:18:11] <A-L-P-H-A> neither do I :(
[09:18:22] <anonimasu> I think you should hook your ground off the socket to the chassis..
[09:18:33] <A-L-P-H-A> that was said. :)
[09:18:46] <anonimasu> since you have voltage on your bridge rectifier -
[09:18:47] <anonimasu> ;)
[09:18:48] <A-L-P-H-A> but my question is should the DC segment of the ground/negative hook to the chasis?
[09:20:02] <anonimasu> http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/AntBk.pdf
[09:20:14] <anonimasu> :)
[09:20:33] <anonimasu> there might be somthing in there..
[09:20:34] <anonimasu> I think
[09:20:45] <anonimasu> I'd look a bit more at it or get ahold of my father and ask him..
[09:20:52] <anonimasu> but since I am working I dont have lots of time :/
[09:21:06] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm thinking of hitting the dollar store, and buying candles to melt to mill. Reusable material... just melt it to a block... screw up... melt it again, and do play again.
[09:21:22] <anonimasu> yeah
[09:21:26] <anonimasu> that'd be a good idea
[09:21:26] <anonimasu> :)
[09:21:32] <A-L-P-H-A> Cheap, and reusable.
[09:21:41] <A-L-P-H-A> and no worried of breaking a end mill...
[09:21:59] <robin_sz> you can buy wax for candle making in blocks, usually like 20lb blocks for much less than candles
[09:22:37] <A-L-P-H-A> WHAT? really... hmm... k, hit the craft store instead... but that's out in the east end...
[09:22:42] <A-L-P-H-A> 20 lb BLOCKS?
[09:22:47] <robin_sz> the candle making shops also sell some stuff,
[09:22:49] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... :) hehe... fun.
[09:22:53] <robin_sz> forget what
[09:23:05] <robin_sz> that you melt in with it, and it makes hard wax
[09:23:16] <robin_sz> sodium stearate maybe??
[09:23:42] <A-L-P-H-A> I was thinking of just using some pam, and a muffin tray, or a bread loaf tray.
[09:23:46] <A-L-P-H-A> pam = oil spray.
[09:24:11] <robin_sz> shrug.
[09:24:22] <robin_sz> whatevers easiest
[09:24:37] <A-L-P-H-A> what would you recommend?
[09:24:54] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm just thinking ease... and what I could do with a 1200Watt heat gun.
[09:25:30] <robin_sz> you want suggestions ;)
[09:25:40] <A-L-P-H-A> I asked. :)
[09:25:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I do'nt know if I'll get.
[09:25:50] <robin_sz> wax and an old pan
[09:27:43] <A-L-P-H-A> that's what I was thinking already... dollar store has cheap stuff like that... but how much would 20lbs of wax cost?
[09:28:13] <robin_sz> less than 20lbs of candles
[09:28:31] <robin_sz> wahtever, maybe dollar stor is nearer
[09:30:31] <anonimasu> heh..
[09:30:43] <anonimasu> work is so crowded today :/
[09:30:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got suppliers for candles and stuff around here... just found them in the yellow pages.
[09:30:53] <robin_sz> stearic acid is the hardner,
[09:31:00] <A-L-P-H-A> now all I have to do, is wait 4 and half hours before they open.
[09:31:06] <robin_sz> $7 for a 5lb bag
[09:31:09] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, go postal... :)
[09:31:31] <A-L-P-H-A> think I'll need the hardener, if I just want to mill through it?
[09:31:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm just probably doing this to do test parts... not for casting... [which I will probably do later]
[09:31:48] <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: I work for my father's company..
[09:31:55] <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: going postal would be bad idea :)
[09:32:02] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, probably then.
[09:32:08] <A-L-P-H-A> if you want to inherit the company and all.
[09:32:11] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe.
[09:32:21] <anonimasu> but I got like 3 words out of him about what I am working on
[09:32:38] <A-L-P-H-A> wow... COMMUNICATION! awesome. :)
[09:32:39] <robin_sz> a quick search reveals candle making shops sell wax for around $1 / lb
[09:33:05] <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
[09:33:16] <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: usually it's better then this, but today is full :)
[09:33:26] <A-L-P-H-A> what do you guys do/make?
[09:33:54] <anonimasu> I program PLC's..
[09:33:56] <anonimasu> :)
[09:34:48] <anonimasu> err and interfaces for them
[09:34:58] <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
[09:35:20] <A-L-P-H-A> I did realtime data logging for a paper mill... I know a little about them... but it's been like 5 years since I did it.
[09:35:33] <A-L-P-H-A> used the output from the plcs, and stored them in a database.
[09:35:35] <robin_sz> hmm. 11lb blocks seem to be the standard
[09:35:46] <anonimasu> right now, I am building some control algorithms for controlling the clutch for a racecar for a handicapped guy
[09:36:05] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, what kind of wax as well.
[09:36:24] <robin_sz> this place had allsorts! .. like 30 kinds
[09:36:39] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the website?
[09:36:43] <robin_sz> http://www.swanscandles.com/wholesale.htm
[09:37:03] <robin_sz> higher mlet poitns are harde
[09:37:04] <robin_sz> are
[09:37:42] <anonimasu> it's fun :)
[09:39:06] <A-L-P-H-A> high melting point waxes are harder in nature.
[09:39:12] <A-L-P-H-A> is that what you ment?
[09:39:24] <robin_sz> yeah
[09:39:39] <robin_sz> too early to type straight :)
[09:39:57] <A-L-P-H-A> it's 4:42am here. :(
[09:40:12] <robin_sz> go to bed
[09:40:30] <A-L-P-H-A> can't... too excited about my mill working. :)
[09:40:34] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe
[09:40:44] <robin_sz> :)))
[09:40:53] <A-L-P-H-A> know hwen you were a little kid, and when you got a new toy... that was soooo cool, you couldn't sleep and just played with it?
[09:41:31] <anonimasu> hehe
[09:41:35] <anonimasu> I am still that way..
[09:45:41] <anonimasu> :D
[09:46:28] <anonimasu> hm, actually I only need a PI and not a derevative control loop for this :)
[09:46:55] <anonimasu> err PD..
[09:49:25] <anonimasu> I dont think I need a correction map either..
[09:50:13] <anonimasu> the precision of the measurements will be about 0.024 at the cylinder..
[09:50:16] <anonimasu> :)
[09:55:22] <robin_sz> seems the G2002 has a slight desing fault ...
[09:55:33] <anonimasu> really?
[09:55:46] <robin_sz> the interrupt rate is too high
[09:56:27] <anonimasu> ok
[09:56:28] <robin_sz> 1ms. the moving average queue is 128 bytes long, so thats 1/8th of a second
[09:57:05] <robin_sz> it can only do truly predictive stops if your machine can go from full speed ot dead stop in 1/8th of a second
[09:57:42] <anonimasu> have you told mariss about it?
[09:57:49] <robin_sz> yeah, its on the list
[09:58:11] <robin_sz> furtunately, the interrupt rate is jumperable
[09:58:22] <anonimasu> nice
[09:59:25] <robin_sz> unfortunately, it does 1ms (1024hz), 2048, 4096 and 8192
[09:59:52] <robin_sz> fast, too fast and much too fast :)
[10:00:01] <anonimasu> bbl
[10:00:02] <anonimasu> lunch
[10:00:36] <anonimasu> will that be taken care of in the next rev?
[10:00:49] <robin_sz> who knows, might be solvable in software
[10:00:57] <robin_sz> skip alternate interrrupts
[10:01:01] <anonimasu> ah ok
[10:01:05] <anonimasu> anyways bbl
[10:44:34] <A-L-P-H-A> that sucked.
[10:44:41] <A-L-P-H-A> I just spent like 40 minutes packing up something.
[10:45:09] <A-L-P-H-A> actually, an hour.
[10:50:42] <robin_sz> * robin_sz does happy dance
[10:50:51] <robin_sz> new 'puter has arrived :)
[10:51:24] <A-L-P-H-A> tell me it's not a mac mini
[10:52:17] <robin_sz> hell no!
[10:52:22] <robin_sz> its a Dell :)
[10:52:24] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A nods.
[10:52:30] <A-L-P-H-A> Dell's are good.
[10:52:36] <A-L-P-H-A> I've had a nice laptop from them.
[10:52:38] <robin_sz> mmmm. that they are
[10:52:39] <A-L-P-H-A> that I put through hell.
[10:52:45] <robin_sz> me too :)
[10:52:51] <robin_sz> inspiron 8000 for me
[10:53:06] <A-L-P-H-A> I had an inspiron 3800, like 5 years ago.
[10:53:11] <A-L-P-H-A> maybe even longer
[10:53:13] <A-L-P-H-A> 6?
[10:53:18] <robin_sz> yeah, they are great
[10:53:21] <A-L-P-H-A> 2000. so 5.
[10:53:33] <robin_sz> new machine is a dual 2.8 ghz Xeon
[10:53:42] <A-L-P-H-A> work paid for most of it, and let me keep it when I left.
[10:53:52] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm not too big of a fan of intel.
[10:54:17] <robin_sz> its that or sun I guess
[10:54:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I like amd
[10:54:48] <A-L-P-H-A> always have... better bang for my buck.
[10:54:49] <robin_sz> got a nice sun box with 4 blades, that works
[10:54:51] <A-L-P-H-A> Time: 05:57:14 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (63% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 711/1024MB (69.43%), C: 59.84gb of 75.42gb free, D: 23.56gb of 39.05gb free, E: 135.81gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 2wks 4days 17hrs 58mins 3secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 6hrs 56mins 16secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
[10:55:10] <A-L-P-H-A> crap... what keeps taking up so much memory????
[10:55:15] <robin_sz> amd, I have "issues" with amd sometimes
[10:55:24] <robin_sz> easy, thats "windows"
[10:56:14] <A-L-P-H-A> err. virus scanner = 52megs. java = 48megs. outlook = 44 megs. firefox = 40 megs. acrobat = 38 megs. word = 32 megs. mirc = 20 megs. explorer 21meg.
[10:56:15] <A-L-P-H-A> GAH!
[10:56:49] <robin_sz> we looked at a dual opteron box, but went xeon in the end, now .. if I can just get Debian to recognise the raid controller ....
[10:59:42] <A-L-P-H-A> I am determined to get this bracket finished today.
[11:01:47] <A-L-P-H-A> need to buy some 1-2-3 block set, a Vblock set. what other toys? :)
[11:01:56] <A-L-P-H-A> store opens in another 2 hours! :)
[12:31:54] <anonimasu> :)
[12:32:03] <anonimasu> iab
[13:53:49] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. There's news up on the freenode website---please take a look ( http://freenode.net/news.shtml ) .... contents: receipts for 2004 donations; PDPC 2005 fundraiser has begun; network outages in 17 hours. Have a great afternoon, and thank you for using freenode!
[14:14:43] <anonimasu> hey alex
[14:18:38] <alex_joni> hey anon
[14:27:28] <robin_sz> MEEEEP!
[14:27:36] <alex_joni> sweep
[14:27:47] <robin_sz> another machine nicely killed :)
[14:27:56] <alex_joni> what machine?
[14:28:00] <robin_sz> server
[14:28:05] <alex_joni> coo
[14:28:24] <robin_sz> nice new dell, ran for 90 minutes, committed suicide
[14:28:34] <alex_joni> huh.. what happened?
[14:28:45] <robin_sz> its ... well, dead.
[14:28:46] <robin_sz> wont post
[14:29:11] <anonimasu> call tech support.
[14:29:11] <anonimasu> :D
[14:29:26] <robin_sz> done that, they had me strip the machine right down to parts
[14:29:36] <robin_sz> still wont post
[14:29:48] <robin_sz> enginneer is on his wway :)
[14:35:08] <anonimasu> nice
[14:35:18] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is worn out...
[14:35:30] <anonimasu> I am going out to look at the car I am building this stuff for tonight
[14:36:07] <anonimasu> ^_^
[14:36:10] <alex_joni> I'm going home
[14:36:11] <alex_joni> bye
[14:36:14] <anonimasu> triying this tomorrow
[14:36:16] <anonimasu> goodnight
[14:36:18] <anonimasu> err
[14:36:18] <anonimasu> bye
[14:42:55] <robin_sz> sigh ... I was so looking forward to playing with that server too!
[15:38:02] <robin_sz> * robin_sz restores the damage done by some wiki spammer
[15:41:14] <cradek> robin_sz: again??
[15:42:01] <robin_sz> again? first time its happened init?
[15:42:13] <cradek> I cleaned up one thing yesterday
[15:42:16] <robin_sz> oh.
[15:42:17] <cradek> I assumed someone else cleaned up more
[15:42:29] <robin_sz> maybe we need a password
[15:42:50] <robin_sz> I'll firewall it of from the tw*t that did it anyway :)
[15:43:08] <cradek> it was a dynamic IP yesterday, so that won't do any good.
[15:43:48] <robin_sz> I was planning on firewalling the entire /24
[15:44:36] <robin_sz> ive removed the old wiki.pl script
[15:44:48] <robin_sz> only the emcinfo.pl script is in place now
[15:47:01] <robin_sz> ipchains -A input -l -s -d -j DENY
[15:47:02] <cradek> ok, I took the mention of the old path off the main page
[15:47:52] <robin_sz> bastards eh,
[15:48:34] <robin_sz> perhaps a public non-editable one, and a page with a nice gif showing the password and link to the editable one.
[15:50:29] <robin_sz> the only good thing is, it only takes moments to put it back the way it was ... just view the previous version, edit it and save it.
[15:51:29] <cradek> yeah
[15:51:53] <robin_sz> I wouldnt mind, but it was just a load of pr0n links ..
[15:51:58] <robin_sz> and they are all crap!
[15:52:11] <cradek> without using <pre> how do I make a string in the middle of a line a fixed-width font?
[15:52:23] <robin_sz> umm
[15:52:28] <robin_sz> <tt>?
[15:53:00] <cradek> yep thanks
[16:07:31] <robin_sz> hmmm ...
[16:07:41] <robin_sz> I think I might have set the editing password ...
[16:08:42] <robin_sz> if anyone cares, select preferences, and enter 'emc' as your password :)
[16:09:24] <cradek> I can edit the front page without a password
[16:09:33] <robin_sz> dang,
[16:13:06] <robin_sz> try now
[16:13:36] <cradek> now all pages say they are read-only
[16:13:48] <robin_sz> select 'preferences'
[16:13:56] <jepler> """Isn't using steppers like using MS Windows? hehe- jk.
[16:13:57] <jepler> """
[16:13:59] <cradek> I filled that out last time (I was user 1020)
[16:14:01] <robin_sz> change your pw to emc
[16:14:02] <cradek> now it says I am 1021
[16:14:09] <robin_sz> lucky you
[16:14:26] <cradek> oh it's not saved in my cookies, it's just for that session?
[16:14:30] <jepler> steppers sure are simple...
[16:14:50] <robin_sz> I thought it was saved in cookies
[16:15:05] <jepler> cradek: don't you use a proxy that makes most cookies session cookies?
[16:15:08] <cradek> it's not working for me...
[16:15:12] <robin_sz> hmmm
[16:15:40] <cradek> jepler: ummmm I don't remember
[16:15:56] <robin_sz> ok, not password then, administrator password
[16:16:01] <robin_sz> password is something else
[16:16:02] <cradek> aha
[16:16:06] <cradek> ok that worked
[16:16:12] <robin_sz> kewl
[16:16:33] <robin_sz> I'll add a note to the 'howto' ...
[16:16:34] <cradek> are you going to put in a gif that tells how to edit?
[16:16:46] <robin_sz> I'll piut it in the BasicSteps
[16:17:02] <robin_sz> im assuming it is being done by spamming bots, not humans
[16:17:14] <cradek> humans are easier to keep up with
[16:17:45] <cradek> jepler: well I like steppers too. They're cheap and easy and can certainly move a machine around.
[16:20:42] <jepler> I don't have any idea of the speeds a servo-based system would provide
[16:21:05] <cradek> for the same money, approximately 0 ipm
[16:22:07] <robin_sz> at the low $ end, you get more bang from steppes than servos for your buck
[16:22:18] <robin_sz> at the high end .. well, steppers dont do high end
[16:22:55] <cradek> robin_sz: you can get some awfully big steppers
[16:23:01] <robin_sz> that said, a bige NEMA 42 stepper, expecilly a neo magnet one
[16:23:15] <robin_sz> driven with many amps and big volts is pretty damn impressive
[16:23:15] <cradek> they are very powerful but just can't give the same rapid speed
[16:23:26] <robin_sz> well, if you gear them right ...
[16:24:18] <robin_sz> but yeah
[16:24:37] <robin_sz> if you plot the load graph of a system it goes sorta
[16:24:42] <robin_sz> /
[16:24:45] <robin_sz> upwards ...
[16:24:52] <cradek> I guess my steppers are still pretty darn strong spinning at 500rpm
[16:25:00] <robin_sz> the torque graph of a stepper goes -\
[16:25:07] <cradek> so the right gearing would give a nice rapid rate
[16:25:20] <robin_sz> 500 rpm,
[16:25:25] <robin_sz> 10 rps
[16:25:31] <robin_sz> 2 khz?
[16:26:49] <robin_sz> what I need is the Dynamic C compiler ..
[16:27:00] <robin_sz> well, the serial number anyway ;)
[16:27:59] <cradek> your minutes must have a different number of seconds than mine
[16:28:19] <robin_sz> it was an egineers aproximation
[16:28:27] <cradek> I know, just teasing
[16:28:30] <robin_sz> ;)
[16:30:28] <cradek> I think I have 3.3kHz step rate (8000 steps/inch 25 inch/min)
[16:54:44] <paul_c> Morning Steve
[16:55:23] <SteveStallings> Morning Paul. I see the wiki got locked down. Did we get more that the one spam?
[16:55:32] <robin_sz> loads :)
[16:55:53] <robin_sz> the password is 'emc' in the administrator password box in preferences
[16:56:06] <robin_sz> as detailed on the 'basics' page
[16:56:10] <SteveStallings> Could you tell if they used the wiki or the emcinfo address?
[16:56:22] <robin_sz> I could if I looked :)
[16:56:57] <SteveStallings> I am hoping that the emcinfo address would be sufficient. Logging in will deter minor edits.
[16:57:31] <robin_sz> todays was all wiki.pl
[16:57:51] <robin_sz> once youve set it in your prefs, its sotred in a acookie
[16:57:57] <robin_sz> stored
[16:58:21] <SteveStallings> Guess I will have to let your cookies slip through... 8-)
[16:58:21] <robin_sz> you should not need to worry about it ever again??
[16:58:35] <robin_sz> ooh, you cookie blocker you
[16:58:43] <SteveStallings> damn right!
[16:59:19] <SteveStallings> when you run M$ shit you have to be very careful
[16:59:26] <robin_sz> you can unlock the site if you want
[16:59:37] <robin_sz> im not that fussed
[16:59:51] <robin_sz> you'll need the admin password to do that ...
[17:00:05] <SteveStallings> any consensus on unlocking it, anyone here?
[17:00:55] <cradek> I'm neutral
[17:00:56] <robin_sz> admin pw lets you add people to the banned list by ip too
[17:01:22] <robin_sz> i'll be happy if its twice the size by this time next week
[17:01:38] <SteveStallings> I did a lot of editing to get special characters to display, but not sure what or if anything should be done in your short URL examples on the Basics page.
[17:02:13] <robin_sz> shrug
[17:02:20] <robin_sz> not caring that much
[17:02:36] <SteveStallings> I guess the WiKi wise will understand the quirks.
[17:03:02] <robin_sz> I place higher importance on the EMC info
[17:03:21] <robin_sz> and higher importanc on content over presentation anyway
[17:03:33] <SteveStallings> agreed, but I want to help and I am not much use on compile/install stuff
[17:03:39] <robin_sz> :)
[17:03:49] <robin_sz> well, you;re doing just fine then :)
[17:04:18] <robin_sz> all Ive doen is copy and paste stuff
[17:04:37] <SteveStallings> nothing grows without a seed
[17:04:44] <robin_sz> we could do with adding some info on jmk;s HAL stuff
[17:04:49] <slomo> knowledge base is looking good !
[17:06:24] <SteveStallings> JMK will probably jump in over the weekend
[17:07:03] <SteveStallings> for that matter, we have not announced the WiKi on the list yet, wanted to get a seed there first, guess we are ready enough?
[17:13:20] <robin_sz> looks seedy to me
[17:13:33] <cradek> sure
[17:13:36] <SteveStallings> 8-)
[17:19:33] <SteveStallings> just announced the WiKi on the developers list, let it build a bit then announce on users list
[18:00:11] <paul_c> * paul_c makes a few small edits to the wiki.
[18:05:31] <robin_sz> stevestallings2: re your questions: I *think* you can do 99% of that with a style sheet, but its just running te 'usemod' wiki script, google for usemod and you have all the info youlll ever need
[18:11:31] <stevestallings2> found it and tried to message you, only to find I was disconnected yet again 8-(
[20:03:28] <CIA-temp160> CIA-temp160 is now known as CIA-7
[20:04:10] <CIA-temp192> CIA-temp192 is now known as CIA-7
[20:35:00] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. There's news up on the freenode website, for those who may have missed it. Please take a look ( http://freenode.net/news.shtml ) .... contents: receipts for 2004 donations; PDPC 2005 fundraiser has begun; network outages (now in about 10.5 hours). Have a great night, and thank you for using freenode!
[21:13:38] <CIA-temp173> CIA-temp173 is now known as CIA-7
[21:18:51] <robin_sz> m eeeee p
[21:19:43] <cradek> hello
[21:19:48] <robin_sz> :>
[21:38:34] <les> howdy
[21:40:25] <cradek> hi les
[21:40:59] <les> just missed another ice storm
[21:41:08] <les> so far
[21:41:14] <robin_sz> is that good?
[21:41:25] <les> temp exactly 32 all day
[21:41:38] <robin_sz> blimey, thats hot.
[21:41:40] <paul_c> 70 plus over here...
[21:41:46] <les> yeah loosing power is not good
[21:42:01] <les> 70...yikes
[21:42:13] <les> 70's where my folks live
[21:42:34] <robin_sz> so, hows the resident painter?
[21:43:00] <les> Well there was not time in the customer's scedule for me to make a painting bot
[21:43:18] <robin_sz> ahh ...
[21:43:23] <robin_sz> so you bought one
[21:43:23] <les> so we just worked out a deal in a meeting a little while ago
[21:43:54] <les> No...my customer will take the units unfinished for now
[21:44:04] <robin_sz> coo.
[21:44:16] <les> and he will outsource a quicker but not as good finish
[21:44:32] <robin_sz> so, thats your sander laid off then
[21:44:39] <les> After the hunting season is over I will then build the paint bot
[21:45:06] <les> No I had to work that out....we will sand
[21:45:18] <les> His work load will actually go up
[21:45:38] <les> Since I will be running the machine more
[21:45:59] <les> Trying to look at my figures for how much painting costed
[21:46:00] <robin_sz> but hes only got one sand now
[21:46:23] <les> I get $1.58 total finishing
[21:46:37] <les> at 1.3 burden rate
[21:46:58] <les> (as a painter I make $10/hr)
[21:47:00] <les> haha
[21:47:06] <robin_sz> overpaid!
[21:47:16] <les> but 0.50 is the first sand
[21:47:23] <les> will still do that
[21:48:06] <les> So I can drop the price by .094 for sanded but unfinished
[21:48:50] <les> But that begs the question...I seem to be doing finishing with no profit
[21:48:57] <les> well by that analysis
[21:49:24] <les> Before it had to be done to get the big value added of cnc machining
[21:50:11] <les> So a bot will have no profit with it's operation?
[21:50:29] <les> hmm I had better fudge some numbers so it looks ok haha
[21:51:38] <les> Customer loves the finish but realizes that the cnc operator being a painter is what's killing us
[21:51:50] <les> I am happy about this...I think
[21:52:39] <les> So then every 3 min 20 sec the emc will make...
[21:53:19] <les> $4.56
[21:53:24] <les> sound ok?
[21:55:18] <les> hmmmm $82.90 /hr....that's only kinda ok
[21:57:46] <les> OK enough of this accounting bs haha
[21:59:08] <A-L-P-H-A> this is weird... I can't set my backlash...
[21:59:28] <A-L-P-H-A> I move it 0.02" the same direction as it was setup.
[21:59:32] <les> Do you really need it?
[21:59:37] <gezr> hello ya'll
[21:59:49] <les> hi gezr
[21:59:51] <A-L-P-H-A> Move back 0.02" and it's reading 0.002". Fine. So I set the backlash to 0.002" in software.
[22:00:29] <A-L-P-H-A> and when I go back and test it again... I move in the same direction, and test it again I still get 0.002" backlash... after setting it 0.002" [and yes backlash comp was turned off to begin with]
[22:00:44] <A-L-P-H-A> stupid ball screws.
[22:01:08] <A-L-P-H-A> the other axis I get something stupid like 0.0001" of backlash... the needle just moves a hair. so I set that to be zero.
[22:01:24] <les> well I could see where it might be usefull...but for 3-d contouring I have to consider thar backlash error has a rectangular probabiliy density
[22:01:36] <les> that not thar
[22:01:38] <les> haha
[22:02:13] <A-L-P-H-A> les, what does that mean? "rectangular probabiliy density"
[22:02:46] <les> It means lost motion IN GENERAL can not be predicted
[22:02:52] <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : how are you testing, down then up, then back down, or from up to down then up?
[22:02:58] <les> In special cases it can
[22:03:16] <les> like straight lines
[22:03:28] <les> but cut a circle and....
[22:04:32] <les> I don't have backlash but I do have stick slip
[22:04:52] <gezr> thats a fun one
[22:05:00] <les> max position error I get from that is about 0.0002 in
[22:05:28] <les> I could prob make it go away with careful feedforward tuning
[22:05:49] <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : you may be a bit tight, try moving the axis a full inch or so
[22:06:04] <les> integral helps to but there is a limit to how much one can use
[22:06:29] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, yes.
[22:06:42] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, I tried moving 0.050"...
[22:06:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll try a full inch.
[22:07:06] <les> servo right alpha?
[22:07:11] <A-L-P-H-A> steppers.
[22:07:15] <les> ok
[22:07:20] <A-L-P-H-A> it's repeatable though...
[22:07:34] <A-L-P-H-A> I tried for like 30 minutes, at different (albeit only 1" different) spots.
[22:07:45] <A-L-P-H-A> 1" away from that spot.
[22:08:12] <A-L-P-H-A> like the backlash is 0.002 to 0.0018" at different locations.
[22:08:41] <les> ballscrew?
[22:09:25] <A-L-P-H-A> yes.
[22:09:43] <A-L-P-H-A> steppers + gecko g201 + ball screws
[22:09:59] <les> Sounds about right for a rooled screw
[22:10:08] <les> rolled
[22:10:09] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, they were rolled.
[22:10:19] <A-L-P-H-A> hey! I can afford rolled. I can't afford ground
[22:10:39] <A-L-P-H-A> $200 setup, versus $3000 setup.
[22:10:52] <les> I use the hiwin precision rolled with oversize balls
[22:10:58] <les> zero backlash
[22:11:01] <A-L-P-H-A> les, how much?
[22:11:34] <les> 2.5 meter screw with 2 nuts was $380 last time I checked
[22:11:45] <les> cheap!!!
[22:12:06] <les> 1" diam
[22:12:27] <cradek> 1/4-20 allthread is cheaper
[22:12:38] <les> but oversize ball preloading may not last as long as other metods
[22:12:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I had about 1.25meters, 1"dia. with two nuts, for I think, $180USD + shipping.
[22:13:10] <A-L-P-H-A> I do have another ballscrew, which I may use to physically compensate
[22:13:21] <les> I checked the lead accuracy of the HIWIN screws and it was much better than spec
[22:13:23] <A-L-P-H-A> with a die spring, or a disc spring between the two nuts.
[22:13:44] <les> wwhat little error there is is just a constant pitch error
[22:13:51] <les> can be mapped out
[22:14:06] <A-L-P-H-A> Dear Lloyd,
[22:14:06] <A-L-P-H-A>
[22:14:06] <A-L-P-H-A> Without access to the screws, I can�t tell you the lead accuracy. However, the lead accuracy tolerance for all rolled screws (the kind we make) is +/-.003 - .008� per ft. and we are usually at the low end of this range.
[22:14:06] <A-L-P-H-A>
[22:14:06] <A-L-P-H-A> Best Regards,
[22:14:07] <A-L-P-H-A> ROTON PRODUCTS, INC.
[22:14:42] <les> Yes I use bellville preload on one bearing end
[22:14:54] <les> Oh you work for Rotron?
[22:14:58] <A-L-P-H-A> Oh yeah, I don't have a support for the other end.
[22:15:06] <A-L-P-H-A> No, that's Dear Lloyd... it was to me.
[22:15:18] <les> haha ok
[22:15:23] <A-L-P-H-A> it was addressed to me, by a Guy named S. Allen Lochmoeller
[22:15:35] <A-L-P-H-A> nice people at roton.
[22:15:39] <A-L-P-H-A> pleasant to deal with.
[22:16:16] <gezr> I dont think what your seeing is in your screw
[22:16:23] <les> I would imagine with oversize ball preload that the balls themselves are the firtst thing to go
[22:16:29] <les> first
[22:16:38] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, probably not... it's probably my CRAPPY bracket on that axis.
[22:16:46] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm gonna make a new one for it asap.
[22:16:49] <gezr> .002 isnt crapy
[22:17:13] <A-L-P-H-A> well, the other doesn't have any backlash... though that bracket is nice. :) hehe
[22:17:23] <gezr> if I was you, and things are working, ide run it for a while, and evaluate what types of modifications are needed
[22:17:35] <A-L-P-H-A> true.
[22:18:04] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone have a Z-axis design for a drill/mill they don't mind sharing?
[22:18:34] <A-L-P-H-A> so far, I'm thinking of mounting a acme screw (3/8-10tpi acme, non-standard), and spinning the nut.
[22:18:58] <gezr> thats a wicked small screw
[22:19:16] <A-L-P-H-A> I have 1/2-10tpi acme, with a acme tap and all.
[22:19:30] <paul_c> BP mount a massive hollow ballscrew to the top of the quill and spin the nut..
[22:19:31] <gezr> flying screw is a sweet design, several machines use that method
[22:19:58] <les> must be made for it though
[22:20:08] <les> dynamically balanced
[22:20:10] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... maybe I'll get 3ft of precision ground 1/2-10tpi acme... and use that.
[22:20:25] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm spinning it with a stepper, how fast could I get?
[22:20:27] <les> and special construction so grease does not sling out
[22:21:03] <paul_c> If you're going for ground screw, why not use ball rather than acme ?
[22:21:34] <les> Not that fast I guess...but it still helps some by not having to machine ballscrew ends
[22:21:34] <A-L-P-H-A> cause i'm worried about the z-axis falling down when I power off the machine.
[22:21:51] <les> yes
[22:22:11] <A-L-P-H-A> precision ground acme is cheap, and I can make brass gears with an XL timing gear patter, and an acme tapped hole inside.
[22:22:14] <les> meet MR spring
[22:22:23] <gezr> 10pitch shouldnt freewheel
[22:22:34] <A-L-P-H-A> 4tpi freewheels.
[22:22:39] <les> right
[22:22:46] <les> 5 is just on the edge
[22:22:48] <A-L-P-H-A> I was soooooo impressed when I did that. it was SO neat to me.
[22:22:54] <gezr> yeah, 4 will, but 10 has a waht 4deg helix?
[22:23:58] <les> ALPHA: who machine your ballscrew ends?
[22:24:05] <les> machined
[22:24:14] <A-L-P-H-A> my neightbour bought in with me the roton ball screws... and he wanted to replace the acme nut (which was messed up, but he fixed) on his X carriage ways.
[22:24:41] <A-L-P-H-A> les, I did. I machined them on my friend lathe. (die grinder to get the hardening off, and then machined them round.)
[22:25:05] <les> I machine ballscrew ends in house ...but it's not fun
[22:25:06] <A-L-P-H-A> I was saying, his nut cost $90USD, and the screw cost like $10-15 bucks only.
[22:25:35] <A-L-P-H-A> we have someone with an acetyline torch now, so we'll just anneal them this time around.
[22:25:44] <A-L-P-H-A> wet rag + burn technique.
[22:26:09] <les> I use an angle grinder to cut through the case hardend bit
[22:26:15] <les> then carbide
[22:26:21] <A-L-P-H-A> that's what we did.
[22:26:24] <gezr> ball screws are 20% stronger then cut threads, you could aneal them in an oven right under the broiler for a while
[22:26:27] <les> then Themac tool post grinder
[22:26:37] <gezr> rolled threads that is, man im tired
[22:26:57] <A-L-P-H-A> we didn't ground finish the ends...
[22:27:32] <les> get close and sandpaper and a mic works too
[22:28:46] <les> The HIWINs are 4140 cr/mo
[22:29:11] <les> Rockwell C 58 - 60 outside
[22:29:22] <les> C40 or so inside
[22:29:49] <les> so one can cut threads ok
[22:29:53] <A-L-P-H-A> well, if I ever do another conversion (which I may soon, if I have money) I'll get the hiwins.
[22:30:09] <A-L-P-H-A> les, have you done an Z axis conversion? Any tips?
[22:30:43] <les> Alpha: I design the machines rather than convert...
[22:30:54] <les> but am about to do a Bridgeport
[22:31:09] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm still thinking the flying nut design... So, it'd be plate, bearing, nut/gear, bearing, plate, bracket. Bolt the plates together.
[22:31:15] <les> So heheh I'll let you know
[22:31:44] <les> Flying nut is very nice but very expensive
[22:32:06] <A-L-P-H-A> how's the very expensive?
[22:32:13] <A-L-P-H-A> that*
[22:32:32] <les> Well I can only speak for commercial apps but
[22:32:45] <les> the transmission etc cost a bunch
[22:32:58] <les> I have some drawn up
[22:33:04] <A-L-P-H-A> the gear I was thinking, was just an XL gear belt...
[22:33:07] <A-L-P-H-A> this guy... sec.
[22:33:35] <les> parts cost about $1000/axis for commercial stuff
[22:33:50] <les> for the transmission
[22:34:06] <les> and that is if you machine it
[22:34:44] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.homecnc.info/Pics/800z-axis-installed.jpg
[22:35:38] <les> yours?
[22:35:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I love how he tucked it inside.
[22:35:40] <A-L-P-H-A> NO!
[22:35:42] <A-L-P-H-A> I wish.
[22:36:16] <les> looks like acme
[22:36:31] <A-L-P-H-A> I think it's actually a ballscrew
[22:36:36] <les> must go out for a sec...brb
[22:37:10] <A-L-P-H-A> he sells the plans for $45 bucks, which is a little expensive to me, just for plans.
[22:38:10] <A-L-P-H-A> his servo prices aren't that bad... but I'm sure I could find cheaper.
[22:38:29] <A-L-P-H-A> his servo's don't even include encoders either.
[22:53:11] <A-L-P-H-A> Stupid telemarketers... "Can you please take us off your list" "Can I take 3 minutes of your time" "Can you please take us off your list" "it'd just take 3 minutes of your time" "Please take me off your list" "you don't have 3 minutes you can spare?" <hang up>
[23:02:47] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: Wanna talk, gimme a credit card number so that I can bill you for the time wasted.
[23:03:02] <paul_c> Usually works for me ;}
[23:04:50] <A-L-P-H-A> haha. :) They were doing a survey... supposedly. I didn't know or hear it... I was just annoyed.
[23:05:02] <A-L-P-H-A> usually their nice and say "sure, no problem" but this person was annoying.
[23:09:39] <asdfqwega> If you want to get rid of telemarketers - waste THEIR time
[23:10:36] <asdfqwega> I admit, it takes a weird kind of calm to do that
[23:11:13] <asdfqwega> But I have a friend who did that
[23:11:36] <asdfqwega> Got 'em talking, then "Can you hold on a minute?"
[23:11:55] <asdfqwega> Came back twenty minutes later, they were still there
[23:12:21] <asdfqwega> Talked with them some more, then "Hang on, I have to take care of something."
[23:12:55] <asdfqwega> Get a sandwitch, do some stuff...
[23:13:20] <A-L-P-H-A> they hang up after a little while I think.
[23:13:20] <asdfqwega> He came back twenty minutes later, and they were still there
[23:13:29] <A-L-P-H-A> hahaha
[23:13:30] <asdfqwega> I think it was the third time
[23:13:52] <asdfqwega> He's really unhappy, though
[23:14:04] <A-L-P-H-A> who? your friend, or the telemarketer?
[23:14:05] <A-L-P-H-A> hahaha
[23:14:06] <asdfqwega> He doesn't have ANY telemarketers call him anymore ;)
[23:14:36] <asdfqwega> Can't imagine why
[23:15:03] <asdfqwega> He's such a friendly guy...
[23:15:35] <A-L-P-H-A> who's the English bloak, "knackered" was the word... I just remembered.
[23:15:54] <asdfqwega> Wosname?
[23:16:10] <A-L-P-H-A> someone that started with an S. or had an S in their name.
[23:16:15] <A-L-P-H-A> I could look in my logs.
[23:17:39] <asdfqwega> Hm, I wonder...what's the exact definition/origin of the word 'bloke'?
[23:18:34] <asdfqwega> British slang - sometimes, just sometimes, you don't wanna know
[23:18:58] <A-L-P-H-A> I think I'm on someone's list now... 2nd telemarketer!
[23:19:02] <A-L-P-H-A> 2nd!!!! tonight
[23:19:03] <A-L-P-H-A> WTF!!!
[23:19:19] <A-L-P-H-A> this time it was a recording.
[23:19:47] <asdfqwega> Dang automation - it makes it harder to mess with them
[23:21:00] <A-L-P-H-A> I was thinking of just leaving the phone and just have them get billed for the long distance time.
[23:22:02] <asdfqwega> I was thinking of hooking up a linux system with Festival and a simple automaton
[23:22:21] <A-L-P-H-A> automation of what?
[23:23:01] <asdfqwega> Just a simple script
[23:23:27] <asdfqwega> Maybe something along the lines of Eliza...
[23:23:40] <asdfqwega> You know, text -> speech
[23:24:12] <A-L-P-H-A> oh. ALICE! :)
[23:24:22] <A-L-P-H-A> are you sure it's Eliza? and not Alice?
[23:24:28] <asdfqwega> Oh, it's called ALICE now?
[23:24:28] <A-L-P-H-A> I could be wrong.
[23:24:39] <A-L-P-H-A> No, I think you're right.
[23:25:11] <asdfqwega> ALICE might be the IRC chatbot version
[23:25:28] <robin_sz> meep?
[23:25:31] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, I think IM, yahoochat and stuff.
[23:27:06] <asdfqwega> Make something really dumb - just sample audio input, detect pauses when they're expecting an answer, and have it say "Huh?" "Could you repeat that?"
[23:27:31] <asdfqwega> "Where's my thribble?"
[23:29:58] <robin_sz> or .. just ignore them
[23:30:04] <robin_sz> life is too fscking short
[23:33:33] <asdfqwega> Man, where is that link?...
[23:33:52] <asdfqwega> Speaking of making robots to do things a human can do...
[23:34:09] <asdfqwega> I think it was called "robotoilet" or somesuch
[23:35:48] <asdfqwega> No, that's not it...
[23:40:05] <asdfqwega> Bah, can't find it