#emc | Logs for 2005-01-29

[00:00:15] <websys> yup - that's where I'm putting Synergy eventually
[00:00:25] <A-L-P-H-A> And that photoshoped chick interesting... kinda weird, but provacative.
[00:00:30] <paul_c> robin_sz: The average BDusr wouldn't be likely to use a deb repo
[00:00:44] <A-L-P-H-A> 5 gigs DAILY traffic... what the hell??
[00:00:46] <A-L-P-H-A> that's awesome.
[00:00:54] <A-L-P-H-A> websys, are they fast?
[00:01:04] <websys> Fiber
[00:01:09] <A-L-P-H-A> sweet.
[00:01:16] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the server apps they got running?
[00:01:39] <robin_sz> paul_c: conversley, theres certainly a few that would prefer a simple apt-get install a 630 meg download
[00:01:40] <A-L-P-H-A> mysql, apache, php versions?
[00:01:50] <websys> not sure but my customers told me about it
[00:02:04] <paul_c> robin_sz: So we set up both.
[00:02:14] <robin_sz> paul_c: great plan!
[00:02:18] <robin_sz> * robin_sz kisses paul_c
[00:02:26] <paul_c> already have some of the debs on a server.
[00:02:43] <paul_c> * paul_c runs to find the disinfectant
[00:03:53] <robin_sz> paul_c: gezr mentioned some debian script that exports and builda a directory structure suitable for adding a ine to apt/sources
[00:04:09] <robin_sz> paul_c: from what I remember, it makes all the index files and such
[00:04:33] <paul_c> got the rule set already.
[00:04:40] <robin_sz> kewl
[00:04:42] <asdfqwega> There's the apt-utils package, or apt-move
[00:05:04] <robin_sz> I used to dislike debain, but .. its completely swung me now
[00:05:24] <A-L-P-H-A> websys, php5, and mysql 4.1 :) sweet.
[00:05:29] <A-L-P-H-A> they're good for that price.
[00:05:31] <A-L-P-H-A> very good.
[00:05:46] <asdfqwega> robin_sz's a swinger, and he kisses guy <- Too Much Information
[00:06:03] <robin_sz> you should join #london.pm
[00:06:29] <websys> Depends where he's kissing him
[00:06:44] <robin_sz> I still remember the tech meet when two girls demonstrated the new killer app for 3G phones ...
[00:06:59] <robin_sz> it involved tongues ... ;)
[00:07:11] <websys> ewwww
[00:07:28] <paul_c> * paul_c has met more oddballs here....
[00:07:55] <paul_c> Pam keeps making eyes at me....
[00:07:56] <asdfqwega> paul_c: It takes one to know one :D
[00:08:18] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, I don't know who's balls you're meeting... but I'll just stay over here now.
[00:11:59] <A-L-P-H-A> easiest way to break blue locktight is?
[00:12:04] <A-L-P-H-A> or maybe it's read.
[00:12:05] <A-L-P-H-A> red
[00:12:10] <robin_sz> heat
[00:12:10] <paul_c> heat
[00:12:15] <paul_c> hammer
[00:12:16] <A-L-P-H-A> lots of it?
[00:12:28] <robin_sz> as much as it will stand
[00:12:31] <A-L-P-H-A> or just a propane torch?
[00:12:34] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm. k.
[00:12:36] <paul_c> 300C
[00:12:36] <robin_sz> oh yeah
[00:12:41] <robin_sz> doesnt need to glow
[00:12:49] <robin_sz> 250 degrees or so
[00:12:53] <A-L-P-H-A> oh. good. I was hoping it didn't need to glow
[00:12:56] <paul_c> don't breath the fumes
[00:13:07] <A-L-P-H-A> so, an outdoor thing... great.
[00:13:29] <paul_c> 60F outside
[00:14:01] <asdfqwega> 0F here
[00:14:09] <paul_c> toasty
[00:14:49] <A-L-P-H-A> Need to bore a tap a whole for a 1-9/16" x 18tpi into a steel plate... or should I do in aluminium?
[00:16:09] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll do steel... much cheaper.
[00:16:21] <A-L-P-H-A> _much_
[00:17:06] <paul_c> 18tpi is fairly fine at that size
[00:17:23] <paul_c> ballnuts ?
[00:17:39] <robin_sz> ooh, yes please!
[00:18:14] <paul_c> * paul_c introduces robin_sz to Pam.
[00:18:33] <robin_sz> actually, 18tpi in ally, hmm I think Id just make the hole undersize andget a wrench
[00:19:49] <robin_sz> Pam?
[00:19:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I have the tap. :)
[00:20:07] <paul_c> robin_sz: You'll like Pam.
[00:20:16] <robin_sz> paul_c: female?
[00:20:16] <A-L-P-H-A> ballscrew nuts... standard size for that sized ballnut. They do it to sell you the expensive flanges.
[00:25:40] <robin_sz> mmm .. flanges.
[00:27:06] <paul_c> robin_sz: She is now.
[00:27:16] <asdfqwega> !?
[00:27:19] <paul_c> /She/He
[00:27:50] <websys> it
[00:28:27] <robin_sz> paul_c: hmmm. I'll pass, unless by chance shes turned out looking like pamela anderson
[00:29:03] <paul_c> more like a number 13
[00:29:10] <asdfqwega> paul_c: I thought you prefered old trouts
[00:29:41] <paul_c> * paul_c prefers young, educated ladies
[00:30:03] <asdfqwega> Then don't come to Ohio - we have a shortage
[00:30:08] <robin_sz> ah. ok, I'll pass.
[00:43:22] <paul_c> gotta go - Having dinner with Clyde
[00:49:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I wish I had the stock here at home already. Time to forage for metal on that shelf full of stock.
[02:46:48] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone ever used a boring head? What's the proper usage of one?
[02:47:13] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got a 3/8" plate that I need to bore a 1.5" dia hole...
[03:06:23] <asdfqwega> Proper usage for a boring head: carefully.
[03:07:23] <A-L-P-H-A> well? it's like what?
[03:07:39] <A-L-P-H-A> drill out to whatever I can... boring, incrementing slowly?
[03:07:41] <asdfqwega> Regular head on a vertical mill?
[03:07:46] <A-L-P-H-A> run the boring head the slowest possible.
[03:07:56] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, regular hear, vertical mill.
[03:08:00] <A-L-P-H-A> hear=head
[03:08:23] <asdfqwega> Ok. Yes, make as big a starter hole as you can
[03:08:26] <asdfqwega> Slow speed
[03:08:51] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got a dril that's 1"... so i'm gonna step drill it to that size... and then use the boring head... [which is the part I'm kinda stuck at]
[03:08:53] <asdfqwega> And if you have a table Z, use it instead of the quill
[03:08:55] <A-L-P-H-A> didn't come with instructions.
[03:09:25] <A-L-P-H-A> no table Z... [knee]. I have a column [which doesn't index], and quill only.
[03:11:06] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.bellmachineryltd.com/new_kingpdm25.htm except in an ugly green.
[03:12:29] <A-L-P-H-A> asdfqwega, k, so this is what I'm gonna do, step drill, change to the boring head... mill it out with the slowest RPM... incrementing the head as after each pass threw the stock.
[03:13:21] <asdfqwega> Use the quill feed wheel
[03:14:05] <asdfqwega> Basically, you want to feed it slowly, and using the hand lever has too much of a possibility of it grabbing
[03:19:20] <asdfqwega> If the chatter gets too bad, one thing I've done was loosen the quill to "sticky but not stiff", and use the quill feed and hand feed in opposing
[03:19:54] <asdfqwega> I push up lightly with the hand feed, and let the quill feed push it down
[03:21:15] <asdfqwega> This takes up whatever backlash there might be in the quill feed
[03:30:21] <A-L-P-H-A> asdfqwega, okay.
[03:30:24] <A-L-P-H-A> thanks for the tips.
[03:30:26] <A-L-P-H-A> Time: 22:33:00 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (22% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 693/1024MB (67.68%), C: 59.84gb of 75.42gb free, D: 21.03gb of 39.05gb free, E: 138.98gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 2wks 10hrs 45mins 19secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 6hrs 56mins 16secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
[03:30:46] <A-L-P-H-A> sorry, dropped the kb.
[03:42:55] <gezr> oh my the blast booth is comming along
[03:43:42] <gezr> got me a black and decker drill and jig saw, the cheap stuff, and its working nicely, not rechargable, got them cords I cAN cut on :)
[03:44:43] <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : you get your hole bored?
[03:45:11] <gezr> asdfqwega : how you doing tonight?
[04:07:34] <asdfqwega> I'm not doing to bad - doing up my books for taxes
[04:11:30] <gezr> cool
[04:12:09] <gezr> I think im really tired
[04:12:42] <gezr> Im not sure, I have 2 more boards to put onthe pyramid base, then some cuts and then some other stuff yet to do, then im going to work on assembly
[04:18:54] <asdfqwega> Where you located, gezr?
[04:19:36] <asdfqwega> Just curious - there's places you can get a blasting cabinet easier than building one
[04:21:23] <asdfqwega> I'm trying to remember a name of a place that even sells kits for blasting cabinets
[04:21:26] <gezr> im in central arkansas
[04:21:35] <gezr> I can buy one any day
[04:21:54] <gezr> this is somewhat an excuse to get some tools and have some fun :)
[04:22:08] <asdfqwega> Oh, well, have at it then
[04:22:21] <gezr> less I spend on stuff I wont use everyday, more I can spend on stuff I will use more often
[04:22:59] <asdfqwega> Ugh...time for a coffee run
[04:24:09] <gezr> asdfqwega : did you see the photos I put up of the cabinet before the recent mods I havent finished yet?
[04:24:24] <asdfqwega> No, I haven't
[04:24:49] <gezr> www.masternode.net/gallery cant remember which dir they are in
[04:26:01] <asdfqwega> I'll take a gander when I get back
[04:26:19] <asdfqwega> Careful with the power tools
[05:39:38] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, yes. :)
[05:39:39] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe.
[11:05:51] <les> hey robin
[11:06:01] <les> power is still on
[11:55:34] <anonimasu> hello
[11:55:37] <anonimasu> :)
[11:56:10] <anonimasu> emc2 compiles&runs
[12:40:15] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[13:57:20] <A-L-P-H-A> hey hey
[13:57:24] <A-L-P-H-A> morning folks. :)
[14:00:24] <robin_sz> mornign
[14:00:36] <A-L-P-H-A> looking at proximity switches for home switches.
[14:00:42] <robin_sz> today, I am having fun with snmp
[14:00:48] <A-L-P-H-A> proxi switches are EXPENSIVE. :(
[14:00:52] <A-L-P-H-A> $75/pop.
[14:00:52] <robin_sz> yep
[14:01:01] <A-L-P-H-A> wonder if I can get a half dozen for samples. :) hehe
[14:01:04] <robin_sz> and useless in your application too :)
[14:01:44] <robin_sz> you are using steppers, right?
[14:01:46] <A-L-P-H-A> Yeah.
[14:02:08] <robin_sz> so .. your homing accuracy depends on switch accuracy, unliek a servo
[14:02:08] <A-L-P-H-A> someone mentioned it... so I was curious.
[14:02:29] <A-L-P-H-A> so the proximity sensor can be used as a switch.
[14:02:35] <robin_sz> proximity switches are not very repeatable
[14:02:49] <A-L-P-H-A> supposedly this guy can get it within +/- 1 step.
[14:03:13] <robin_sz> sounds, unlikely
[14:03:29] <robin_sz> let me put it anothe way
[14:03:36] <A-L-P-H-A> okie
[14:03:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm listening
[14:03:39] <robin_sz> microswitches are $3
[14:03:55] <A-L-P-H-A> I have like a dozen of them.
[14:04:10] <robin_sz> wellm that was it really :)
[14:04:21] <A-L-P-H-A> oh. just the price diff. understood.
[14:04:39] <robin_sz> my experience with proximity switches is they are very variable in when they go off
[14:05:28] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... how about hall sensors?
[14:05:52] <A-L-P-H-A> aren't they really accurate? but the problem is that my machine is made of iron.
[14:05:56] <robin_sz> I would hae thought the same thing applied
[14:06:13] <robin_sz> halls were a bit temperature dependent I thought
[14:06:36] <A-L-P-H-A> My mill is inside the basement.
[14:06:41] <A-L-P-H-A> same with my lathe
[14:06:50] <robin_sz> even my 250K laser uses microswitches ...
[14:07:04] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm. okie. :)
[14:07:14] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the repeatablity of the microswitches?
[14:07:24] <robin_sz> good. very good.
[14:07:29] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight.
[14:07:39] <robin_sz> depepns a bit on how you mount them
[14:07:52] <robin_sz> I use them with a roller and a ramp
[14:08:03] <robin_sz> so if it overshoots, death doesnt occur
[14:08:03] <A-L-P-H-A> how should it be mounted? got a picture by chance?
[14:08:28] <robin_sz> hmmm.
[14:08:45] <robin_sz> don think i have
[14:08:58] <robin_sz> heres how it is on most pro gear.
[14:09:13] <robin_sz> some sort of slotted track
[14:09:29] <A-L-P-H-A> damn my internet is so slow
[14:09:36] <robin_sz> with a plastic or ally wedge ... sorts_____/------
[14:09:58] <robin_sz> like a 45degree section an a 5mm step
[14:10:22] <robin_sz> the microswitch has a roller
[14:10:43] <robin_sz> you can move the wedge in the track to adjust the zero
[14:11:04] <robin_sz> ooh, one thing that might work if you dont want you switches
[14:11:12] <robin_sz> slotted IR sensors
[14:11:20] <A-L-P-H-A> I was thinking those... from a mouse.
[14:11:30] <robin_sz> yeah, or an old printer
[14:11:48] <robin_sz> seen those used, but dust may be an issue
[14:12:15] <robin_sz> * robin_sz luuurrvs mrtg
[14:12:23] <A-L-P-H-A> mrtg?
[14:13:30] <robin_sz> traffic grapher, sucks data out over smnp and graphs it
[14:13:56] <robin_sz> http://adsl.redpoint.org.uk:82/mrtg/
[14:15:00] <robin_sz> the 3com switch in my network, plus a bit of ssytem data from another host
[14:15:29] <robin_sz> you can click the graphs for more detail
[14:16:31] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[14:16:57] <robin_sz> well, i find it kinda cute anyway
[14:17:11] <A-L-P-H-A> it's useful... kinda. :)
[14:17:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't get omron.ca to work properly.
[14:17:41] <A-L-P-H-A> stupid site.
[14:27:06] <A-L-P-H-A> ahh. enclose an photomicrosensor in a box, with a piston and spring as a trigger mechanism. Making it liquid + dust proof.
[14:36:05] <A-L-P-H-A> it goes ... kilo, deca, <base>, centi, mili, micro, pico, nano right?
[14:53:59] <robin_sz> umm
[14:54:09] <robin_sz> micro, nano, pico
[14:54:28] <robin_sz> uF, nF, pF
[15:01:12] <A-L-P-H-A> thanks.
[15:02:41] <A-L-P-H-A> found a device that is oh... 5um accuracy... but I realized... if I just modify some code, I could get that accuracy as well... so that I start the table movement, I trigger a switch, slow down, stop when trigger the optical sensor.
[15:12:12] <anonimasu> hey
[15:13:13] <anonimasu> I got my machine to work
[15:13:26] <anonimasu> although it dosent seem like you can redefine pins in the config yet
[15:13:34] <acemi> how can i increase the number of step pulse/second limit in EMC?
[15:13:46] <anonimasu> so I guess I'll have to re-wire everything
[15:18:22] <acemi> my step motor moves slowly (100 rev/m). i have a driver card with 5000 microstep. i want to increase rev/m. when i increase maximum_velacity higher than 6 (mm/sec) i get an error message: Error - axis 0 follow error
[15:18:43] <acemi> what can i do?
[15:20:50] <cradek> what is P for that axis?
[15:21:13] <acemi> P = 1000.000
[15:22:34] <cradek> that should be fine I think
[15:22:48] <cradek> what is [EMCMOT] PERIOD?
[15:22:58] <cradek> are you are using freqmod?
[15:23:17] <acemi> PERIOD = 0.000020
[15:23:24] <acemi> yes freqmod
[15:23:56] <cradek> with that PERIOD you probably can't get over about 10000 pulses per second
[15:24:12] <cradek> maybe less
[15:24:36] <acemi> when i increase that, my computer locks
[15:24:46] <cradek> what are your INPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_SCALE
[15:24:52] <acemi> sorry, decrease..
[15:25:04] <acemi> 1250.0 0 (both)
[15:26:07] <cradek> when you set max_vel over 6 how many steps per second are you requesting?
[15:26:59] <acemi> ~ 7000 microstep
[15:27:23] <cradek> I think you're limited by PERIOD here
[15:27:34] <cradek> what are SETUP_TIME and HOLD_TIME
[15:27:57] <acemi> SETUP_TIME = 1
[15:27:57] <acemi> HOLD_TIME =2
[15:27:57] <cradek> you need more than (SETUP_TIME + HOLD_TIME) PERIODS per pulse
[15:28:17] <cradek> is it a very slow machine?
[15:28:26] <acemi> no, celeron 1800
[15:28:52] <acemi> but i run emc from livecd
[15:29:19] <cradek> can you reduce the number of microsteps per step in your driver?
[15:29:55] <acemi> yes but if i use 5000 microstep will be better
[15:31:23] <cradek> here's what you're up against
[15:31:26] <acemi> in [EMCIO] section, PLAT will be realtime?
[15:31:40] <cradek> no it should be nonrealtime
[15:31:59] <cradek> PERIOD of .000020 means your realtime motion controller task runs 50000 times a second
[15:32:09] <anonimasu> :)
[15:32:17] <cradek> to change the state of the output you need 3 PERIODS because of SETUP_TIME and HOLD_TIME
[15:32:27] <cradek> you change state twice per pulse
[15:32:42] <cradek> that gives you an absolute maximum pulse rate of 8333 pulses per second
[15:32:54] <cradek> by requesting 7000 you are too close to that.
[15:33:01] <acemi> hmmm
[15:33:10] <cradek> $ units 1/.000020/3/2
[15:33:10] <cradek> Definition: 8333.3333
[15:33:57] <cradek> you have to decrease PERIOD (you can't) or reduce the number of pulses you need per second (change your microstepping mode)
[15:34:11] <acemi> i see
[15:34:13] <anonimasu> hm, if that's the speed you can get with stepper driver's .. I guess I need one of the vital cards :)
[15:34:48] <acemi> cradek, thank you
[15:34:59] <cradek> you're welcome
[15:35:20] <anonimasu> cradek: can you have a faster rate if you have a faster computer?
[15:35:26] <cradek> yes
[15:35:46] <cradek> but not much. the computer is pretty fast here.
[15:36:01] <cradek> what you need to do is change how far your axis moves per pulse
[15:36:03] <anonimasu> hm, I have a 500 atm.. for my mill...
[15:36:19] <anonimasu> but well, if everything works out I might gea 3ghz.. for it..
[15:36:58] <anonimasu> cradek: that takes away precision :/
[15:37:21] <anonimasu> or well, not with geckos..
[15:37:24] <anonimasu> *remembers*
[15:37:32] <cradek> my system moves at 25ipm and has resolution of 1/8000 inch
[15:37:56] <cradek> I would happily have 100ipm and 1/2000 inch
[15:38:44] <cradek> now you could try changing HOLD_TIME to 1
[15:38:51] <cradek> see if your drivers still work right
[15:38:56] <cradek> it will get you a little more speed.
[15:40:34] <anonimasu> km
[15:40:37] <anonimasu> ojk..
[15:41:11] <anonimasu> but well, I dont know how my mill performs with emc.. yet
[15:41:15] <anonimasu> maybe tomorrow..
[15:42:08] <anonimasu> I am curious to see how the segmentqueue does..
[15:42:14] <anonimasu> when millint complex shapes..
[15:42:14] <anonimasu> :)
[15:42:18] <anonimasu> milling..
[15:42:44] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, remember. photos
[15:43:08] <anonimasu> a-l-p-h-a: :p
[15:43:27] <A-L-P-H-A> wha? :) I wanna see end results. :)
[15:43:28] <anonimasu> yeah
[15:43:49] <anonimasu> I'll get photos once I get it to work as supposed..
[15:44:13] <anonimasu> the only thingk thats keeping me is that you cant redefine step/dir pins in the cfg..
[15:44:51] <anonimasu> * anonimasu craves for a cnc lathe atm
[15:45:19] <anonimasu> but I dont have time to build one :)
[15:46:08] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[15:46:08] <anonimasu> I wonder if the machine shop nearby would get me my parts.. if I sent em .igs of them,,
[15:46:20] <A-L-P-H-A> I'd like to have my bracket made today... I've got the metal, the hole bored.
[15:46:26] <anonimasu> :)
[15:46:42] <anonimasu> I am stuck on my machine until I get my boring head..
[15:46:52] <A-L-P-H-A> just need to make the bolt slots, and tap the big hole.
[15:46:53] <anonimasu> to make better bearing mounts :)
[15:46:58] <anonimasu> nice :)
[15:47:00] <A-L-P-H-A> I bought a boring head cheap on ebay.
[15:47:10] <anonimasu> I found a cheap boaring head at a company here...
[15:47:11] <A-L-P-H-A> it's a shitty boring head, but does the job.
[15:47:16] <anonimasu> about 250$
[15:47:32] <A-L-P-H-A> uh, my boring head was maybe at most 1/5 of that.
[15:47:34] <A-L-P-H-A> USD.
[15:47:39] <anonimasu> :)
[15:47:41] <A-L-P-H-A> 50 USD with boring bars.
[15:47:45] <anonimasu> heh
[15:47:46] <anonimasu> that's cheap
[15:47:49] <A-L-P-H-A> it's a cheap Made in China one...
[15:47:51] <A-L-P-H-A> does the job.
[15:48:25] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[15:48:32] <A-L-P-H-A> there's a ton of backlash in the head, but I'm only going in one direction, and I realize that I can push the head in... and index it from only one direction.
[15:48:47] <A-L-P-H-A> backlash in the incrementor.
[15:49:06] <anonimasu> oh
[15:49:14] <A-L-P-H-A> Pita Wilson is hot.
[15:49:21] <anonimasu> who's that?
[15:49:38] <A-L-P-H-A> Nikita on Nikita :)
[15:49:42] <anonimasu> ah
[15:50:00] <anonimasu> she looks good.. but she's a tad bit old :p
[15:50:02] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0933959/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9cGl0YSB3aWxzbnxodG1sPTF8bm09b24_;fc=2;ft=21;fm=1
[15:50:09] <A-L-P-H-A> she's older than me by 9 years.
[15:50:29] <anonimasu> I hate my current bearing mounts..
[15:50:58] <anonimasu> 14 years older then me ;)
[15:51:31] <anonimasu> they wrok and have good precision..
[15:51:45] <anonimasu> but I'd want em machined out of solid blocks of alu..
[15:52:17] <anonimasu> encapsulated.. and with nice lube points..
[15:52:25] <anonimasu> for automatic lubing..
[15:52:49] <robin_sz> mmmm ... automatic lubing
[15:53:15] <robin_sz> is Pita Wilson equipped with that?
[15:53:58] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I dont know.. if that was the case and if she did chew metal all day long I'd be scared.. :P
[15:55:06] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, hmm... I would think so... she has a that's 3 yrs old.
[15:55:21] <A-L-P-H-A> a kid that's 3yrs old
[15:56:22] <robin_sz> ;)
[15:57:08] <anonimasu> I turned some of the most horrid stuff at friday at work..
[15:57:21] <anonimasu> at the large lathe..
[15:57:43] <anonimasu> it was some steel couplings for a tractor..
[15:58:09] <anonimasu> spark rain ;)
[15:58:17] <A-L-P-H-A> nasty.
[15:58:37] <robin_sz> large lathe?
[15:58:40] <anonimasu> yeah..
[15:58:43] <anonimasu> profila somthing
[15:58:47] <robin_sz> over 1m swing?
[15:58:53] <anonimasu> yeas..
[15:58:54] <A-L-P-H-A> someone was telling me about a vertical lathe... that was war era vintage... and took out 1/2" chunks to rough it out... making horrible horrible noises, but just worked.
[15:59:14] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I've taken 1cm cuts at it ;)
[15:59:20] <robin_sz> kewl :)
[15:59:26] <anonimasu> it's violent..
[15:59:47] <A-L-P-H-A> how BLACK were the chips?
[15:59:58] <robin_sz> I assume you mean 1cm wide cuts
[16:00:06] <robin_sz> not 1cm deep
[16:00:41] <anonimasu> 1cm deep..
[16:00:45] <robin_sz> ie turned 2cm dia off a bar in one go
[16:00:51] <robin_sz> not 1cm chips
[16:00:56] <anonimasu> err 1cm.. that is..
[16:01:02] <anonimasu> err 0.5cm that is per side..
[16:01:05] <robin_sz> right
[16:01:36] <anonimasu> large ass russian lathe :)
[16:01:37] <A-L-P-H-A> what kind of cutter would you be using? tungstun carbide?
[16:01:43] <robin_sz> i'll take 2 to 3mm per side on the small colchester, but not with a fast feed
[16:02:04] <anonimasu> seco carbide inserts..
[16:02:55] <anonimasu> :)
[16:04:20] <anonimasu> the inserts wont take much more abuse..
[16:04:21] <anonimasu> :)
[16:04:24] <anonimasu> then that..
[16:04:44] <robin_sz> heh
[16:04:54] <anonimasu> not much atleast..
[16:05:04] <robin_sz> I use seco or sandvik inserts
[16:05:09] <robin_sz> all seem good.
[16:05:12] <anonimasu> yeah
[16:05:13] <anonimasu> :)
[16:05:16] <robin_sz> get em cheap on ebay
[16:05:32] <anonimasu> seco are good
[16:05:35] <robin_sz> I dont use coolant much these days either
[16:05:37] <anonimasu> have you seen their catalog?
[16:05:41] <robin_sz> nope
[16:05:46] <anonimasu> it's 2dm thick..
[16:05:55] <robin_sz> coo
[16:05:55] <anonimasu> or more then 2dm..
[16:05:59] <anonimasu> with all extra papers..
[16:06:02] <anonimasu> we got it at work..
[16:06:14] <anonimasu> they sell lots of special inserts..
[16:06:44] <anonimasu> and lots of types for different stuff..
[16:07:54] <anonimasu> well the part I turnd was nasty..
[16:08:09] <anonimasu> couldnt take more then 0.05 each pass..
[16:08:22] <anonimasu> could only clamp it at the edge..
[16:08:23] <anonimasu> :)
[16:09:15] <robin_sz> anyone know anything about 802.1p vlan tagging?
[16:09:38] <anonimasu> I dont know what material it was really..
[16:09:41] <anonimasu> just some steel..
[16:09:42] <anonimasu> :)
[16:09:52] <anonimasu> it was nastier then turning ballscrews..
[16:11:47] <anonimasu> :)
[16:11:48] <A-L-P-H-A> ballscrews are just hardened...
[16:11:48] <anonimasu> brb
[16:11:50] <anonimasu> yeah
[16:11:54] <A-L-P-H-A> it was a bitch to do mine
[16:12:05] <anonimasu> I turned mine at my small home lathe..
[16:12:12] <A-L-P-H-A> I ended up grinding it with a die grinder to get past the hardening.
[16:12:25] <anonimasu> I broke the insert but managed to get the hardening away..
[16:12:25] <A-L-P-H-A> it's work hardened, not treated I think.
[16:12:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I broke so many inserts... not even my tool.
[16:12:39] <anonimasu> I think it's surface hardened..
[16:12:41] <A-L-P-H-A> tools
[16:12:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I brought over my tools, and they did it no problem.
[16:12:58] <A-L-P-H-A> he had _really_ cheap disposable tools.
[16:13:04] <anonimasu> hehe
[16:13:15] <A-L-P-H-A> they were horrible.
[16:13:22] <anonimasu> the reason the insert broke was because the toolpost flexed..
[16:13:22] <anonimasu> :)
[16:13:28] <A-L-P-H-A> I would not want to machine ball screws again though.
[16:13:34] <robin_sz> I used the oxy-acet to heat em cherry red and then anneal
[16:13:35] <anonimasu> and started chattering when it went over the ridges..
[16:13:58] <robin_sz> really, you need a little grinder to do that
[16:14:00] <anonimasu> I'd turn em at work in one single pass.. to get the hardening away if I were to do it again..
[16:14:14] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, no oxy-acet torch.
[16:14:36] <robin_sz> $friend has a little myford grinder, would have made a lovely job of them I think
[16:14:50] <anonimasu> yeah
[16:14:51] <anonimasu> :)
[16:15:00] <anonimasu> I'll buy my next ballscrews pre-turned
[16:15:01] <robin_sz> he does some beautiful engineering work ... this is my gunsmith friend
[16:15:04] <A-L-P-H-A> highspeed grinder to get through the hardening?
[16:15:15] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[16:15:20] <A-L-P-H-A> cool. :)
[16:15:21] <anonimasu> a toolpost grinder would work wonders
[16:15:25] <robin_sz> nah
[16:15:30] <robin_sz> not on a lathe you value
[16:15:34] <A-L-P-H-A> must make a huge mess.
[16:15:40] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[16:15:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I value my lathe...
[16:15:53] <robin_sz> even with guideway covers, it gets into the sump
[16:15:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't value his...
[16:16:15] <robin_sz> anyone know anyting baout 802.1p vlan tagging?
[16:16:45] <anonimasu> heh :D
[16:17:00] <anonimasu> brb
[16:54:39] <danfalck> morning guys
[16:55:56] <les> hi dan
[16:56:18] <danfalck> how's the router running?
[17:29:35] <robin_z> hmmm ... seems my stp failover test proved it didnt work :)
[17:31:32] <robin_z> anyone know how to convince a mandrake box NOT to use the gui as the default login?
[17:36:44] <cradek> if it has an /etc/inittab, you probably change the default runlevel
[17:48:30] <robin_z> hmmm
[17:48:42] <robin_z> looking at it .. this is an old 2.2.18 BDI install
[17:48:50] <robin_z> with rtlinux
[17:49:10] <robin_z> cradek: what do you recomend as a basis for trying the segmot stuff?
[17:49:18] <cradek> what do you mean?
[17:49:31] <robin_z> debian fresh install? a BDI of dsome flavour
[17:49:33] <robin_z> ??
[17:49:41] <cradek> no no no, just update from cvs
[17:49:48] <robin_z> really?
[17:49:50] <robin_z> ok.
[17:50:14] <cradek> I also use rtlinux
[17:50:28] <cradek> you don't have to screw up a working system
[17:52:05] <robin_z> well, I doubt I can even remember the arcane incantations to compl=ile it ...
[17:52:17] <cradek> it's easy now
[17:52:24] <cradek> ./configure
[17:52:26] <robin_z> make plat=rtlinux_3_0 etc
[17:52:29] <robin_z> oh, ok
[17:52:30] <cradek> then run make four times
[17:52:40] <cradek> PLAT=realtime, PLAT=nonrealtime
[17:52:48] <cradek> in both the rcslib and the emc/src directories
[17:53:12] <cradek> leave your old emc alone
[17:53:17] <cradek> check out the cvs in a new spot
[17:53:23] <cradek> copy over your ini file
[17:53:27] <cradek> run it
[17:54:22] <robin_z> yeah, ages since I played with this ...
[17:54:27] <robin_z> liek .. 18 months!
[17:56:34] <robin_z> ah well, another dream shattered ::
[17:58:08] <robin_z> no .configure file in the cvs head of emc or rcslib
[18:00:26] <robin_z> cradek: are the .configure files distributed seperatley or somehting?
[18:02:06] <cradek> robin_z: not sure...
[18:02:34] <cradek> robin_z: just do it the old way then
[18:03:06] <cradek> probably make PLAT=rtlinux_3_0 and make PLAT=linux_2_2_18
[18:03:39] <robin_z> sigh
[18:03:52] <robin_z> hang on ... I'll just follow the README
[18:03:54] <cradek> I've never used the new configure in emc1
[18:04:08] <robin_z> well, its not there, so it would be hard to ..
[18:05:08] <cradek> try those two makes in rcslib
[18:05:38] <robin_z> yeah, ok,
[18:05:51] <robin_z> the README was devoid of further clue anyway
[18:06:26] <robin_z> /bin/sh: etags: command not found
[18:06:36] <cradek> ignore
[18:07:04] <robin_z> yeah, justy suprised it even in there as standard
[18:10:15] <robin_z> coo, rcslib built without exploding ..
[18:12:04] <cradek> so try the same in emc/src now
[18:12:19] <robin_z> hmmm ... emc is building too .. .but lots of complaints about missing slocate
[18:13:02] <robin_z> but, so far .. so good
[18:16:11] <robin_z> seems the locate db is a bit old ... last time the box was switched on was in Jan 2003 :)
[18:16:36] <robin_z> oops, failes
[18:17:01] <robin_z> vital.c:49: pci/pci.h: No such file or directory
[18:17:01] <robin_z> make[1]: *** [/root/emc/plat/linux_2_2_18/lib/vital.o] Error 1
[18:17:01] <robin_z> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `objs', needed by `libs'.
[18:17:53] <rayh> robin_z: What install you working with?
[18:18:01] <cradek> install pciutils-devel pacakge
[18:18:04] <robin_z> trying the current cvs head
[18:18:10] <robin_z> cradek: impossible
[18:18:43] <rayh> Where did you get the linux you are working with?
[18:18:47] <robin_z> this is dedrat/mandrake based from loooong ago, up2date support died a long time bac
[18:18:58] <robin_z> rayh: a BDI of some flavour
[18:20:00] <rayh> Some of the BDI-2.xx series failed to install the pci utils package from the disk.
[18:20:30] <rayh> If you've still got the disk you could look in cdrom/redhat/rpms dir and find it.
[18:20:37] <robin_z> well, I'll just delete the vital stuff from the makefile
[18:20:51] <robin_z> rayh: is this supposed to build with a ./configure && make?
[18:21:00] <rayh> You'll also have to delete the vti stuff as well
[18:21:10] <robin_z> or did it still not get that far?
[18:22:02] <rayh> There is nothing in the configure that looks for and stops the make of pci stuff.
[18:22:27] <robin_z> too tru,
[18:22:33] <robin_z> theres no .configure even
[18:22:40] <rayh> I believe that was the other half of the problem we identified.
[18:22:53] <robin_z> this is current cvs head ...
[18:22:53] <rayh> the configure stuff is in rcslib/etc
[18:23:16] <rayh> I used it yesterday here with rc46 and it worked well.
[18:23:37] <robin_z> you did ./configure ?
[18:23:52] <rayh> in rcslib/etc yes.
[18:24:52] <robin_z> thats an "interesting" place to keep it
[18:25:07] <rayh> My compile PC died the other day so I need to reinstall a 2.xx
[18:25:18] <rayh> Yea. fooled me for a while.
[18:25:52] <robin_z> why is it not in rcslib/ ??
[18:26:47] <robin_z> ok, I'll just put it down as 'another emc quirk'
[18:28:59] <rayh> 'fraid you'll have to until someone explains why.
[18:30:46] <robin_z> perhaps I'll commit a README for rcslib with that one fact in it.
[18:32:27] <robin_z> ages since ive played with emc, quite fun again :
[18:32:29] <robin_z> )
[18:33:00] <robin_z> I think the huge expense of real controllers has driven me to investigate it again :)
[18:34:22] <robin_z> remind me .. to run it now ive built it all ...
[18:34:47] <anonimasu> :)
[18:35:20] <robin_z> ach ..
[18:35:21] <robin_z> The current real-time platform appears to be rtlinux_ but no directory exists for this platform.
[18:35:28] <robin_z> sigh
[18:36:43] <rayh> okay. there is an .rtxxx file in the emc directory. Remove that or edit it to read 3_0
[18:39:42] <robin_z> I changed it to .rtlinux_3_0, it was .rtlinux_verion.
[18:39:51] <robin_z> still doesnt work
[18:40:19] <rayh> Remove it entirely and run will ask for rtlinux version. Answer 3_0 only.
[18:40:48] <robin_z> oh, that was a text entry?
[18:41:00] <rayh> yes
[18:41:20] <robin_z> that needs to be more obvious I think
[18:41:32] <rayh> It is gone on all the newer versions.
[18:41:37] <robin_z> nah
[18:41:44] <robin_z> this IS the latest version
[18:42:07] <rayh> I was thinking of linux or bdi versions.
[18:42:21] <robin_z> this is current cvs head
[18:42:46] <rayh> The file is needed by the rt that is working rather than the emc.
[18:44:10] <rayh> I seem to remember that it points to the numerical extension to the rcslib or some such.
[18:44:10] <robin_z> well, generic run works .. :)
[18:44:30] <rayh> Great. That's with ./configure?
[18:44:34] <robin_z> nah
[18:44:45] <robin_z> id already built the 'old way'
[18:45:02] <rayh> oh. okay.
[18:46:14] <robin_z> slowly its all coming back to me
[18:46:36] <robin_z> im vaguely remembering what was wrong when I last used it
[18:47:02] <robin_z> I seem to rememebr there was a bug relating to units ...
[18:47:29] <robin_z> I run fairly low steps per mm, like 50
[18:47:44] <robin_z> and quite high speeds, like 20m/minute
[18:48:40] <rayh> That should be gone in the current source.
[18:48:51] <robin_z> good oh
[18:49:21] <rayh> I think that last year's fest took care of it.
[18:49:29] <robin_z> right
[18:49:46] <robin_z> I make that about 17khz pulses ..
[18:49:58] <robin_z> so it shouldnt be a problem
[18:51:37] <robin_z> I may just hook some steppers up to it right now ... like I say, its been a LONG time
[18:52:08] <rayh> How fast is the processor?
[18:52:19] <robin_z> oh, very.
[18:52:32] <robin_z> 450 mhz or more.
[18:52:44] <robin_z> AMD K2450
[18:53:06] <rayh> Should be able to get close to 17k anyway.
[18:53:17] <robin_z> easy I would hope
[18:53:37] <robin_z> I was getting twice that out of a certain other system
[18:55:03] <robin_z> I guess I'll go with servos eventually anyway,
[18:55:20] <robin_z> I just wanted to checkout the steppersegmot stuff
[18:55:27] <robin_z> see how smoooooth it is
[19:00:15] <les> power is kinda goin in and out here
[19:00:32] <robin_z> build a generator
[19:00:40] <les> really
[19:00:40] <robin_z> combined heat and power
[19:00:48] <robin_z> TURBINE!
[19:00:51] <robin_z> go on ...
[19:00:56] <robin_z> you know you want to
[19:01:00] <les> yeah
[19:01:02] <les> haha
[19:01:34] <les> what's that stuff the trbine is made of?
[19:01:45] <les> platinum/tungsten?
[19:01:58] <les> just cheap old metal
[19:02:02] <robin_z> inconel
[19:02:22] <les> hmm
[19:02:39] <robin_z> you can buy 160hp turbines cheap enough
[19:02:53] <les> helicopter?
[19:03:02] <robin_z> that sorta thing
[19:03:04] <robin_z> ebay
[19:03:06] <robin_z> or ..
[19:03:15] <robin_z> ex-military power carts
[19:03:20] <robin_z> its all done already
[19:03:30] <les> oh yeah...APUs
[19:03:34] <robin_z> 3 or 4k USD
[19:03:59] <robin_z> surely you have contacts at a boneyard someplace?
[19:04:08] <les> not here
[19:04:14] <les> sure do in Chicago
[19:04:53] <les> The big one is that airport where the sub orbital private rocket flight was done
[19:04:57] <les> mohave
[19:05:43] <les> Well I can't run the machine today due to flickering power
[19:05:57] <les> so designing that client's cnc foam cutter
[19:06:06] <robin_z> nice
[19:06:12] <robin_z> on paper?
[19:06:16] <les> 25 meters long
[19:06:25] <robin_z> ooofff
[19:06:31] <robin_z> uck
[19:06:34] <robin_z> thats big
[19:06:43] <les> Just doing the servo/transmissin on motioneering software
[19:06:50] <les> you know the free stuff
[19:06:52] <robin_z> * robin_z nods
[19:07:18] <les> funny I am needing about 15:1 ratio on this one
[19:07:31] <robin_z> seems ... low
[19:07:31] <les> a lot different from a plasma though
[19:07:36] <robin_z> is it heavy?
[19:08:04] <les> light for it's size...moving mass about 700kg
[19:08:20] <robin_z> I was offered a nice system with 300W ac servos
[19:08:33] <les> going for 1 foot/sec but high frivtion
[19:08:39] <robin_z> seems a bit big for my 50kg gantry though
[19:08:48] <robin_z> 1 foot a second ...
[19:08:58] <les> 100 in/sec^2 accel should be plenty
[19:09:04] <robin_z> loads
[19:09:09] <les> derate the motor 2:1
[19:09:41] <les> need to find a sourcr of racks
[19:09:47] <les> 75 feet of them
[19:09:51] <robin_z> thats easy
[19:10:08] <les> well browning etc but they are not hardened
[19:10:12] <robin_z> I use "halifax rack and screw" ..
[19:10:21] <robin_z> but, they have a US division
[19:10:34] <les> Oh my lathe was made in Halifax
[19:10:43] <les> Boxfords
[19:10:58] <robin_z> http://www.hrs-ccl.co.uk/america_about.htm
[19:11:11] <les> ty
[19:12:04] <les> what kind of price for that stuff?
[19:12:33] <robin_z> cheap
[19:12:47] <les> hardened?
[19:12:52] <robin_z> like, 20mm wide, 5mm pitch ... 20 gbp/metre
[19:12:55] <robin_z> http://www.hrs-ccl.co.uk/images/gear_rack4.jpg
[19:13:03] <robin_z> see those two racks ;)
[19:13:23] <robin_z> theyll do whatever you want ..
[19:13:36] <les> cool
[19:13:40] <robin_z> hardened, painted, engraved with pictures of your grandma
[19:14:01] <les> at that price I could even used a larger derated unhardened one
[19:14:11] <les> as long as the pinion is hard
[19:14:19] <robin_z> heres my philospohpy
[19:14:27] <robin_z> 1) its going to wear
[19:14:41] <robin_z> 2) make the pinion follow it
[19:15:00] <robin_z> 3) if dust is a problem, mount it upside down
[19:15:10] <les> ...like lapped in gear sets
[19:15:46] <les> fortunately I don't need extreme accuracy or anti backlash
[19:15:59] <les> it's upholstery foam
[19:16:14] <les> cut by a round spiral bansaw blade
[19:16:54] <les> I don't have to build the thing...just rough in a design
[19:17:19] <les> This is that $100/hr billed engineering stuff
[19:17:59] <robin_z> kewl
[19:18:16] <les> I can rough it in and do a sanity check for the guy for $500 or so
[19:18:26] <les> just a quicky worked in
[19:18:48] <robin_z> this is a vertical bandsaw blade?
[19:18:53] <les> yes
[19:18:56] <robin_z> right
[19:19:08] <les> cuts in all directions though
[19:19:14] <robin_z> ultra-high speed I guess
[19:19:34] <les> must be
[19:19:50] <les> or the foam would sqish
[19:20:09] <robin_z> im trying to imgaine how it fits around the Y axis
[19:20:09] <les> the only foam cutters I have seen look like meat saws
[19:20:45] <robin_z> the ones ive seen look like hot wires :)
[19:20:47] <les> long 75 ft strips cut into shapes in 2d
[19:21:04] <les> this is urethane...does not melt
[19:21:13] <robin_z> 'k
[19:21:20] <robin_z> emc powered?
[19:21:37] <les> I am a bit reluctant about that
[19:21:45] <robin_z> * robin_z nods
[19:21:54] <gezr> morning guys
[19:21:58] <robin_z> some industrial controller?
[19:22:02] <les> This is a non-technical guy
[19:22:08] <robin_z> yeah
[19:22:11] <les> yeah
[19:22:15] <robin_z> baldor maybe,
[19:22:16] <les> mornin gezer
[19:22:24] <robin_z> they have some nice HMIs
[19:22:37] <gezr> I have the inverted pyramid on the base of my cabinet now :)
[19:22:49] <les> some drop in black box
[19:22:55] <les> built it?
[19:23:02] <robin_z> nah, add on
[19:23:16] <robin_z> les: you could do wors than look at the Burny stuff
[19:23:42] <robin_z> http://www.burny.com/
[19:24:30] <les> nice
[19:24:48] <robin_z> have a look at the 1250+
[19:24:53] <les> k
[19:25:08] <robin_z> not cheap, but user-proof :)
[19:25:25] <robin_z> it even has "monkey node"
[19:25:30] <robin_z> monkey mode
[19:25:44] <robin_z> a prgram is sent over RS232 ...
[19:25:48] <robin_z> the box beeps
[19:26:07] <les> is it rs 274 code?
[19:26:08] <robin_z> display "1250 x 2500 1.6mm" on the display
[19:26:19] <robin_z> the monkey loads the sheet and presses start
[19:26:35] <robin_z> the program ends, and deletes itself to stop the monkey running it twice
[19:26:42] <robin_z> yeah rs274
[19:26:43] <les> ahh
[19:26:59] <les> sounds like the right kind of thing for this guy
[19:27:07] <robin_z> but it can stor LOADS of programs
[19:27:17] <robin_z> I thnk it has a couple of megs internal flash
[19:27:32] <robin_z> or was it 500 megs
[19:27:34] <robin_z> I forget
[19:27:59] <les> heh...keep it up and I shouls send you the retainer fee...
[19:29:12] <robin_z> :)
[19:29:24] <les> What will happen is that I will rough in the design...
[19:29:34] <les> he will build it
[19:29:41] <robin_z> whatever .. theyre pretty idiot proof, and you get the servo drives built in
[19:29:47] <robin_z> this would be ideal then
[19:29:59] <robin_z> they will ship woth motor, gearboxes, cables
[19:30:01] <les> call me on the phone for mechanical how tos
[19:30:07] <les> and that's it
[19:30:15] <robin_z> its literally unpack it and plug it in
[19:30:27] <les> sounds perfect
[19:30:32] <robin_z> but not cheap
[19:31:04] <les> If the guy can afford hiring engineers he can prob afford those
[19:31:34] <robin_z> right
[19:31:45] <les> anyway a simple solution that he can put together is best
[19:32:13] <robin_z> and .. they are the most common controller in the oxy/plasma shape cutting industry
[19:32:16] <les> If I had to go there and spend time it would cost as much as many controllers
[19:32:32] <robin_z> so .. loads of engineers can setup and fix em
[19:32:46] <les> cool
[19:32:59] <robin_z> the invoice is in the post ;)
[19:33:06] <les> hah
[19:33:12] <robin_z> hows the ice storm?
[19:33:17] <les> bad
[19:33:27] <robin_z> freezing rain?
[19:33:33] <les> trees are really starting to bend
[19:33:37] <les> yes now
[19:33:46] <les> was first sleet...no problem
[19:34:02] <robin_z> power cables covered in ice?
[19:34:12] <les> now freezing rain
[19:34:21] <robin_z> will it snow?
[19:34:32] <les> yes up to about 2 cm of ice on cables
[19:34:38] <robin_z> coo
[19:34:51] <les> as much as a foot of snow was predicted
[19:34:58] <robin_z> sounds fun!
[19:34:59] <les> but it is not happening
[19:35:07] <les> it's ice
[19:35:14] <jmkasunich> you seem to get an awful lot of ice storms Les, you should move north where it comes as nice fluffy snow!
[19:35:22] <les> 10" snow = 1 " ice
[19:35:47] <les> yeah John...never had a problem in Chicago
[19:36:18] <jmkasunich> is Rayh here, or just lurking?
[19:36:45] <les> prob has laptop by the grill cooking brats
[19:38:55] <les> I always kept cooking outside up there in the depths of winter
[19:39:10] <les> grill keeps you warm
[19:39:22] <les> do that here too
[19:39:34] <les> all cooked on cherry scraps
[19:39:46] <les> since I have TONS of them
[19:42:01] <les> Robin: I will call the Burny distributor tommorow I think
[19:42:07] <les> quite close by
[19:42:45] <robin_z> les: kewl, nice kit.
[19:43:38] <les> So how much is the 1250?
[19:44:31] <les> $1250...not likely
[19:44:50] <les> ha
[19:44:51] <jmkasunich> add a zero?
[19:44:54] <robin_z> mmm ... with servos and gearboxes ...
[19:45:04] <robin_z> about that, yes, add a zero
[19:45:12] <robin_z> might be better on your side of the pond though
[19:45:17] <les> with all that might be okay
[19:45:30] <les> better than me doing plant trips
[19:45:35] <robin_z> quite
[19:45:47] <les> which I cannot do anyway because I am booked
[19:45:58] <robin_z> oh you could
[19:46:04] <robin_z> IF the price was right
[19:46:36] <les> ahem...I charge ITW $1000 a day but I have to pay expenses
[19:47:02] <robin_z> well, for twice that plaus expenses then :)
[19:47:06] <les> nah...I need to be here and be a turkey call spray painter for Mcdonald's wages
[19:47:21] <robin_z> oh yeah :)
[19:47:29] <robin_z> solved yer bottleneck?
[19:47:37] <les> what am I doing...????
[19:48:20] <robin_z> dont ask me ...
[19:48:25] <les> actually I am doing ok...grossed $2000 this week but paid only $150 in wages
[19:48:37] <robin_z> thats OK
[19:48:46] <robin_z> thats a,most reasonable
[19:49:02] <les> had a fixture failure that shut down sanding for a while
[19:49:30] <robin_z> timed your sander guy?
[19:49:40] <les> timed?
[19:49:45] <les> he's fast
[19:49:51] <robin_z> 2mins?
[19:50:11] <les> I have him set up with a station using a dc servo motor and power supply
[19:50:25] <robin_z> and a nice dust extract?
[19:50:32] <les> I think 5 min for two sandings
[19:50:56] <les> yup I added some duct to those sytations this week
[19:50:56] <robin_z> right ..
[19:51:13] <les> hard work sticking things to the ceiling
[19:51:20] <robin_z> yep
[19:51:25] <robin_z> need skyhooks :)
[19:51:28] <les> had three sandings
[19:51:33] <les> trying 2
[19:51:39] <robin_z> three booths?
[19:51:40] <les> before:
[19:52:06] <les> sand, seal, body coat, sand, finish coat
[19:52:29] <robin_z> ahh
[19:52:38] <les> oops that is aftrer not before
[19:52:45] <robin_z> so 5 minutes of sanding per item?
[19:52:59] <les> before sand, seal, sand, body, sand, finish
[19:53:07] <les> yes in total
[19:53:16] <robin_z> so 12 units and hour max
[19:53:18] <robin_z> per sander
[19:53:23] <les> perhaps a little les now
[19:53:39] <les> about
[19:53:53] <robin_z> you need two sanders I reckon to match the output of the cnc
[19:53:59] <les> I think he is getting much faster than that
[19:54:05] <les> must time him again
[19:54:46] <les> I can do about 150 units a day with the cnc
[19:54:55] <les> at about 60% utilisation
[19:55:12] <les> but not doing that much now
[19:55:23] <les> doing about 100
[19:55:30] <robin_z> yep
[19:55:33] <robin_z> sounds about right
[19:55:41] <les> that would max out at $3000/wk
[19:55:48] <robin_z> the sander is the bottleneck
[19:56:02] <les> and the finisher
[19:56:09] <les> but not yet...
[19:56:23] <robin_z> the finish process is quick though
[19:56:25] <les> because I have yet to use him a full 40 hr week
[19:56:31] <robin_z> oh, wow
[19:56:43] <robin_z> something somewhere isnt adding up
[19:58:28] <les_away> power is going...
[19:58:33] <robin_z> you know what I'd do ... run that CNC hard for a week, build up a BIG stock of parts, theres no reason not to just convert ALL that cherry to parts, maybe no painting gets doen for a week, but your sander is fully occupied
[19:58:45] <robin_z> then start painting
[19:58:57] <les_away> makes sense
[19:59:19] <robin_z> you can just concentrate on painting, because, even if no painted parts are ready for sand2, he has raw parts to sand
[19:59:28] <les_away> I think part of it is that I am a crappy production manager...
[19:59:38] <robin_z> and as the paitne dones come through, he has even more to sand
[19:59:48] <les_away> True I started an ITW division but...
[20:00:00] <les_away> then they sent me to corpratr
[20:00:00] <robin_z> yep .. just run that CNC hard for a week ..
[20:00:05] <robin_z> ;)
[20:00:12] <robin_z> for a lobotomy?
[20:00:51] <les_away> "people skilled at inventing products that sell should continue doing that"
[20:01:12] <les_away> Rather than forcing themselves into a business management role
[20:01:26] <les_away> They might be right I don't know
[20:01:38] <jmkasunich> forcing? or being forced?
[20:02:07] <les_away> Actually I insisted at the time
[20:02:25] <les_away> Got something called a "fellowship"
[20:02:44] <les_away> where I was given a little office at corporate and left alone
[20:02:51] <robin_z> did it involve a gold ring?
[20:02:59] <les_away> haha
[20:03:13] <les_away> no but a very nice plastic and walnut plaque
[20:03:27] <jmkasunich> nice gig if you can get one
[20:03:43] <les_away> But I still love manufacturing not inventing
[20:04:10] <les_away> perhaps I am not as good at running a manufacturing operation but I do like it
[20:04:33] <les_away> love to punch out those widgets
[20:05:35] <les_away> Aw, I always got stuck in r&d or product development
[20:05:47] <danfalck> les_away: how are you guys doing the sanding? on a spindle rotating?
[20:05:52] <les_away> but I like assembly lines and making stuff
[20:06:31] <les_away> dan: yes...the spindle has a special chuck I made out of 1140 steel
[20:06:37] <rayh> Hi Dan.
[20:06:42] <les_away> hooked to a spare servo motor
[20:06:44] <danfalck> hi Ray
[20:07:10] <jmkasunich> hi ray
[20:07:17] <les_away> hey ray. Brats done?
[20:07:18] <danfalck> les_away: could you use a compliant abrasive wheel instead of a piece of sandpaper?
[20:07:24] <rayh> John I didn't see you.
[20:07:39] <rayh> Yep. Just had two for lunch.
[20:07:56] <jmkasunich> been quiet... packing ebay stuff to ship
[20:08:05] <les_away> dan: Yes...but I like to preserve the crisp detail I get from the emc carving
[20:08:35] <les_away> I do wish I could do cnc sanding
[20:08:40] <danfalck> les_away: could you put a pic of the piece up on the web somewhere?
[20:08:44] <les_away> but easier said than done
[20:08:53] <rayh> So the question is how do you deburr a carving without loosing detail
[20:09:10] <les_away> dan: I have not but will
[20:09:24] <les_away> have customer's web site though
[20:09:27] <danfalck> les_away: I would like to look at it.
[20:09:31] <les_away> hanfg on
[20:09:31] <jmkasunich> sanding drum same size as the cutter? (or are the cutters tiny?)
[20:10:11] <les_away> john, I have 6 tool changes mostly with formed tools...custom $75 router bits
[20:10:30] <jmkasunich> I see
[20:10:43] <jmkasunich> (was visualizing straight end mills)
[20:11:33] <les_away> too slow
[20:11:37] <les_away> http://www.dynamiccalls.com/Catalog.htm
[20:11:48] <les_away> scroll down 1/4 way
[20:12:01] <les_away> and you will see an EMC made product
[20:12:39] <les_away> the crystal over slate call is one
[20:12:53] <danfalck> ok
[20:13:50] <danfalck> les_away: semi circle w/ chamfered holes right?
[20:14:18] <les_away> yes
[20:14:33] <les_away> has some interior details you can't see
[20:14:36] <danfalck> les_away: break the sanding down into steps
[20:14:44] <les_away> yes?
[20:15:03] <danfalck> les:automate what you can w/ a lathe and abrasive wheel
[20:15:16] <danfalck> les_away: leave the detail to hand sanding
[20:15:38] <les_away> Am considering such
[20:16:07] <les_away> Turns out that things like automated sanding are the cutting edge
[20:16:32] <jmkasunich> needs the human touch
[20:16:34] <les_away> it's a touchy feely thing that machines have a hard time doing
[20:16:43] <danfalck> les_away: for finishing, use things that let the coating flow, (solvents, retarders)
[20:16:46] <jmkasunich> knowing when the paper is starting to clog or wear out, etc
[20:16:48] <les_away> Mind you this is for a premium finish
[20:17:20] <les_away> A spit coat of unsaturated polyester like eveything else is easy
[20:17:38] <les_away> This is closer to an automotive quality finish
[20:18:11] <les_away> That's how I took all the production away from another supplier
[20:18:19] <les_away> It's all looks
[20:18:31] <danfalck> yep, that sells
[20:18:45] <les_away> It's a Gestalt thing right
[20:18:48] <danfalck> put the sander on piece rate?
[20:19:03] <anonimasu> hm..
[20:19:28] <les_away> OOPS
[20:19:34] <les_away> hit cap lock
[20:19:46] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:19:53] <anonimasu> I didnt think automated sanding was that new..
[20:20:08] <les_away> the wood actually shine before any finish is applied
[20:20:27] <anonimasu> would it be impossible to build such a machine?
[20:20:40] <les_away> anon...it isn't...but a "piano" grade finish is another matter
[20:20:46] <anonimasu> very precise screws.. and some special tools..
[20:20:59] <danfalck> could you use a vibratory finisher?
[20:21:03] <les_away> anaon: it would be a nice challenge
[20:21:11] <anonimasu> les_away: with special tool..
[20:21:17] <anonimasu> I mean a vibrating tool..
[20:21:21] <les_away> dan: thought aboutit
[20:21:22] <anonimasu> not one that circulates..
[20:22:04] <anonimasu> it could be done..
[20:22:13] <les_away> What we go for is the circular micro scratches that give a unique sheen
[20:22:33] <anonimasu> I thought about going 90o
[20:22:39] <anonimasu> or well less..
[20:22:39] <anonimasu> (
[20:22:59] <les_away> just flattening agent for example gives that "wood flavored formica" look
[20:22:59] <rayh> * rayh is starting the snowblower.
[20:23:16] <anonimasu> I dont know what that is
[20:23:30] <les_away> a sheen versus a raw gloss is a real subjctive thing
[20:23:38] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:23:42] <les_away> plastic laminate made to look like wood
[20:23:47] <les_away> brb phone
[20:23:59] <anonimasu> hm, you could use a algorithm.. to detect the surface finish..
[20:24:49] <danfalck> I need to do some grinding....be back later....
[20:25:15] <anonimasu> but well I might be speculating..
[20:25:29] <anonimasu> :)
[20:26:05] <anonimasu> It's not unusual for my mind to wander..
[20:42:14] <les_away> Sorry that was the cnc foam cutter machine client
[20:42:20] <les_away> on the phone
[20:42:34] <les_away> I really have too many eggs in my basket
[20:42:51] <les_away> but...anon
[20:43:14] <les_away> High performance cnc sanding is the cutting edge of technology for sure
[20:43:34] <les_away> want to work on something new...
[20:43:38] <les_away> do that!
[20:47:21] <les_away> les_away is now known as les
[20:47:33] <les> ...until the next power bump
[20:47:42] <rayh> I'm a low tech guy. I'd use one of those grit impregnated flap wheels.
[20:47:57] <les> yup
[20:48:07] <les> great for lots of stuff
[20:48:40] <les> but not 4" cherry hockey pucks that sell for $60 I guess
[20:49:01] <les> The customer loves the crisp detail that emc gives
[20:50:23] <les> flap wheels would soften that crisp detail in this particular shape
[20:51:35] <les> like the checkering on gunstocks...can't really be sanded much
[20:51:57] <les> or they will end up mush
[20:52:21] <jmkasunich> how about CNC engraving - cut with sharp knives instead of rotating cutters, plenty of detail and no sanding needed
[20:52:45] <les> good idea
[20:53:21] <les> crisp sharp knife wood carving currently cannot be duplicated by a machine
[20:53:34] <les> the best carving is never sanded
[20:53:44] <les> considered a sin almost
[20:53:57] <jmkasunich> isn't checkering engraved with a knife of sorts?
[20:54:02] <les> so craftsment do it rether than machines
[20:54:12] <les> jmk: yes
[20:54:34] <les> kinda like curvelinear thread chasing on a surface
[20:54:59] <les> make a machine that could do that on any shape and you will be rich.
[20:55:04] <les> richer?
[20:55:06] <les> haha
[20:56:37] <les> And on this big cnc machine I was just on the phone about...good case study. The guy really doesn't know what he wants or needs.
[20:56:59] <les> So ok...I will give him outrageous performance.
[20:57:09] <les> It's safe...
[20:57:25] <les> He will not be dissatified whatever he does
[20:57:57] <CIA-temp267> CIA-temp267 is now known as CIA-8
[20:57:58] <les> Will bump his machine up to 200 in/sec^2 accel
[20:58:36] <les> .6 G
[20:58:50] <les> just a bigger servo really
[20:59:26] <les> but not huge
[20:59:49] <les> 1500 in oz @ 1000 rpm...not too hard or pricey
[21:11:47] <CIA-temp909> CIA-temp909 is now known as CIA-7
[21:35:31] <les> yikes I am looking out the window at the forest haer
[21:36:07] <les> and some 50 ft tall tulip poplar saplings are bent double from the ice
[21:36:25] <les> won't have power much longer...
[21:50:34] <gezr> les : you have a fireplace right
[21:51:22] <gezr> I hope you dont lose power, but Im betting your in a better condition then what I would be in.
[21:58:08] <les> gezr: I have two airtight wood stoves
[21:58:40] <les> and three ng stoves that can run without electricity
[21:59:00] <les> so i'll be ok
[21:59:41] <les> But my grandma here (and an employee) live in places with electric heat pumps only...
[21:59:59] <les> so I may have some guests here
[22:00:28] <les> right now I am in the music room
[22:00:48] <les> might as well do some music as long as there is power...
[22:56:07] <gezr> the blast box is comming along nicely, I have the side door mounted, the window section cut out, its looking nicely