#emc | Logs for 2005-01-27

[00:00:02] <robin_sz> 2k a month ..
[00:00:05] <les_away> it seems so
[00:00:41] <les_away> I have to get some pencil and paper and figure this out
[00:00:41] <robin_sz> you need to be careful you dont say 108 when 40 of them were sanded the day before and paitned today
[00:00:49] <robin_sz> or a psread sheet :)
[00:00:54] <les_away> I was always r&d
[00:01:03] <les_away> I like production
[00:01:18] <robin_sz> I like organising production ..
[00:01:24] <robin_sz> but not doing it!
[00:01:25] <les_away> but I may be kidding myself or ignoring things here
[00:01:53] <les_away> well..we have the counts in the boxes
[00:02:00] <les_away> it's getting done
[00:02:07] <robin_sz> but ... if you do 100 a day, thats enough, right?
[00:02:12] <les_away> but should be MUCH more
[00:02:18] <anonimasu> les_away: ofcourse buying lots makes it cheaper.. but well I might need 5 kg in total..
[00:02:36] <les_away> the customer will buy EVERYTHING we make
[00:02:46] <robin_sz> sounds like the cnc could feed two sanders
[00:02:48] <anonimasu> of all kinds of alu, both blocks, and shafts stuff..
[00:02:53] <les_away> so I guess it's not enough
[00:03:04] <les_away> yes cnc could feed 2
[00:03:18] <anonimasu> les_away: how much do you have to watch over the cnc?
[00:03:24] <robin_sz> and, batched, you could paint 200 in an hour if you had to
[00:03:33] <les_away> ANON: I but in 100 kg or so
[00:03:54] <les_away> Robin: yeah I could do that many
[00:03:58] <anonimasu> les_away: took breakage and stuff?
[00:04:08] <robin_sz> * robin_sz wonders if you could make up enough bicycle chain conveyor to hold 200
[00:04:18] <les_away> tool brakage?
[00:04:20] <les_away> hmm
[00:04:28] <les_away> breakage
[00:04:32] <robin_sz> then it would be worth automating the paint ... on they go as you do them, out they pop
[00:04:33] <anonimasu> breakage..
[00:04:34] <anonimasu> yeah
[00:04:35] <anonimasu> :)
[00:04:42] <robin_sz> 6 hours later
[00:05:01] <les_away> oh...I am getting about 10 hrs/tool
[00:05:04] <les_away> max
[00:05:21] <les_away> that's not bad
[00:05:30] <anonimasu> :)
[00:05:39] <les_away> $50 to buy
[00:05:46] <les_away> $12 to sharpen
[00:05:50] <anonimasu> I was mostly curious if you have to watch the machine work or if you can just leave it running
[00:05:54] <les_away> no problem there
[00:06:13] <les_away> anon: very good question
[00:06:31] <les_away> I monitor the machine pretty closely
[00:06:34] <robin_sz> the other thing might be to 'palletise' the blanks on MDF pallets, speed up the change over
[00:06:36] <anonimasu> mostly for your own sake, I remember you saying you were watching it for 2 hours..
[00:06:42] <les_away> I wonder If I should
[00:07:06] <les_away> Robin: good idea
[00:08:39] <les_away> anon: It is tense watching it a lot...but you still get sleepy after a while
[00:08:45] <les_away> strange
[00:08:53] <anonimasu> yeah
[00:08:57] <anonimasu> I know the feel of it
[00:08:57] <robin_sz> I used to watchthe laser,
[00:09:06] <robin_sz> now I just hit go and leave it.
[00:09:19] <anonimasu> I've been watching my machine roughing for a hour.
[00:09:26] <anonimasu> stupid turbocnc
[00:09:33] <les_away> just waiting for an alpha partice to hit a memory cell anf 500 kg of iron to go wild
[00:09:42] <les_away> so I watch
[00:09:47] <les_away> but fall asleep
[00:09:58] <anonimasu> hm hard stops?
[00:10:13] <robin_sz> bet the limit switches grab it before you do!
[00:10:25] <anonimasu> err that was what I thought about
[00:10:29] <les_away> have linmit switch and hydroulic shocks on all axes
[00:10:42] <les_away> blah
[00:10:51] <anonimasu> I so want your machine les :)
[00:10:52] <robin_sz> well then, off to the paint booth with ya!
[00:11:07] <robin_sz> hows the spindle search going?
[00:11:29] <les_away> switching to computer glasses...I am not a touch typist
[00:11:46] <les_away> no joy on spindles so far
[00:12:36] <les_away> Ideal would be a 5 hp colombo I think
[00:12:41] <anonimasu> night guys it's getting way past bedtime :)
[00:12:50] <les_away> night anon
[00:13:04] <anonimasu> hope you get some good ideas :)
[00:13:20] <les_away> ha... me too... thanks
[00:14:09] <les_away> I have to go out to the shop and epoxy some reinforcing to the spoilboard
[00:14:24] <robin_sz> no rest for the wicked
[00:14:30] <les_away> some hold down bolts puuled through
[00:14:35] <les_away> pulled
[00:14:41] <robin_sz> nasty
[00:14:48] <robin_sz> not using toggle clamps?
[00:14:51] <les_away> mdf is just very thick Kraft paper
[00:15:08] <les_away> no...I made a clamshell thing
[00:15:20] <robin_sz> right
[00:15:26] <les_away> works good...but tightened the bolts too much
[00:15:35] <les_away> tore right through
[00:16:12] <les_away> putting some steel angle iron reinforcement on
[00:16:17] <les_away> epoxied
[00:16:25] <robin_sz> I used to mount the blank on an MDF pallet, and use plain ol pozi screws from the back
[00:16:33] <les_away> must glue tonight
[00:16:46] <robin_sz> toggle clamps held the MD pallet agaisnt astop
[00:16:51] <les_away> for epoxy to be cured 6 am tommorow
[00:16:57] <robin_sz> * robin_sz ndos
[00:17:02] <les_away> toggle clamps=good
[00:17:08] <robin_sz> quick!
[00:17:24] <robin_sz> and repeatable
[00:17:30] <les_away> also need to glue poy backed sandpaper to the board
[00:17:46] <les_away> then I would not have to clamp so hard
[00:17:52] <robin_sz> hey :)
[00:18:01] <les_away> Have not measured forces
[00:18:15] <les_away> but it's pretty big when the tool gets dull
[00:18:25] <les_away> 100 lb?
[00:18:44] <robin_sz> with MDF pallets you could vacuum clamp, with some sort of register pin
[00:19:05] <les_away> right...good idea...must think about that
[00:19:39] <robin_sz> you could prep a whole bunch, instead of just watching :)
[00:19:49] <les_away> we are talking a lot of wood here...I think we have gane through 500 kg of cherry this month so far
[00:20:26] <robin_sz> doesnt sound a lot to be honest ...
[00:20:40] <les_away> no it isn't really
[00:20:54] <robin_sz> ive seen big routers at carcas plants with multi-tonne stacks of MDF
[00:20:58] <robin_sz> on auto-loaders
[00:21:12] <les_away> but seems big when before the machine was idle most of the time
[00:21:22] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:21:28] <robin_sz> paying its way now though
[00:21:34] <les_away> I think
[00:21:40] <robin_sz> hope so"
[00:21:48] <robin_sz> or you are working for peanuts :)
[00:22:01] <robin_sz> and thats a monkeys job :)
[00:22:09] <paul_c> * paul_c disappears for tea.
[00:22:13] <les_away> 3 min= $4 is not great but ok
[00:22:23] <les_away> that is just value added
[00:22:23] <paul_c> see you all tomorrow.
[00:22:29] <les_away> sell for 6
[00:22:34] <les_away> night paul
[00:22:48] <les_away> argh he's too fast for me
[00:24:18] <les_away> My goal coming down here wasd to perhaps make half a corporate salary working half the time
[00:24:29] <les_away> and play the rest
[00:24:34] <robin_sz> so what you really need to know is how much does it contribut to fixed costs
[00:24:50] <les_away> yeah
[00:25:03] <les_away> good part is:
[00:25:13] <les_away> I don't pay for the cherry
[00:25:23] <les_away> It's supplied
[00:26:17] <les_away> I am getting enough scraps to make an awful lot of cherry glued up butcher block too
[00:27:24] <les_away> This whole deal is not as huge money maker...just ok
[00:27:54] <les_away> combine that with doing a bit of engineering and I'm fine
[00:28:22] <les_away> I'm just wanting to improve the productivity because I am working too much
[00:28:27] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:28:51] <robin_sz> money is good, but work sucks :)
[00:28:53] <les_away> I should not be working at all...just watching haha
[00:29:02] <robin_sz> yip
[00:29:41] <les_away> I have an arts & crafts remodel and a two hole golf cours to do...
[00:30:17] <les_away> and a bridgeport retrofit...which one better categorise as a hobby
[00:30:21] <les_away> haha
[00:30:59] <les_away> like when I rescrape machine ways...
[00:31:30] <les_away> I must tell myself " this is not work, but recreation"
[00:31:41] <les_away> only way to justify it
[00:33:52] <les_away> well had better go out and epoxy that spoilboard so it will be ready tommorrow
[00:34:20] <les_away> laters robin
[01:20:02] <SWPadnos> hello?
[02:49:04] <gezr> whew, almost finished making my new bead blasting cabinet :)
[04:17:44] <A-L-P-H-A> so much fun... I drill and tap a 6-32 hole... and order 6-40 set screws. SMART! :)
[04:17:50] <A-L-P-H-A> so smart.
[04:17:51] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[04:17:52] <A-L-P-H-A> heh.
[04:18:26] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr... :) fun! Rivets or welds or bolts? [I'd prefer rivets and then weld it.]
[04:18:34] <A-L-P-H-A> or tac weld it in place first. :)
[07:10:57] <lilo> [Global Notice] Good morning, all. The freenode network will be experiencing a significant late-scheduled outage later this morning. For information, please see http://freenode.net/news.shtml .... apologies for this inconvenience and thanks in advance for your patience and understanding.
[08:52:44] <anonimasu> hello
[09:56:15] <alex_joni> greetings
[09:58:29] <anonimasu> brb...
[09:58:35] <anonimasu> lunch
[09:58:45] <anonimasu> hi btw
[09:59:06] <A-L-P-H-A> bonjour mon ami!
[09:59:15] <A-L-P-H-A> lunch? it's 5am here. :(
[10:00:28] <alex_joni> bonjour.. ;)
[10:00:36] <alex_joni> it's noon here
[10:00:45] <alex_joni> I'm having my first meal
[10:00:57] <alex_joni> seems a lot of people jumped on the 2.6 train
[10:05:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I have yet to setup EMC for my lathe.
[10:06:06] <A-L-P-H-A> going to try and redo everything on my mill [well. make it usable]
[10:23:24] <A-L-P-H-A> sleep time. I think.
[10:23:35] <alex_joni> night
[11:27:14] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[11:58:30] <les_away> morning
[11:58:48] <les_away> les_away is now known as les
[13:17:10] <lilo> [Global Notice] Good morning, all. The freenode network may experience one or more significant outages in the next couple of hours. For information, please consult http://freenode.net/news.shtml .... thanks in advance for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
[14:15:25] <alex_joni> hello
[14:27:52] <jepler> hi alex_joni, what's new?
[14:29:34] <alex_joni> been painting today ;)
[14:30:22] <alex_joni> I think I need to install a 2.6 system
[14:30:36] <alex_joni> a lot of people are complaining about 2.6 compile failures.. :(
[14:56:06] <alex_joni> * alex_joni gone home
[16:07:05] <paul_c> Morning Steve
[16:07:20] <SteveStallings> morning Paul
[16:26:54] <paul_c> * paul_c checks emails...
[16:37:31] <paul_c> darn - I wish I could send replies to the list at the mo.
[16:39:07] <SteveStallings> surely you have some sort of web to e-mail bridge available to you....
[16:41:46] <paul_c> yes, but it's not nice to use.
[16:52:57] <robin_sz> paul_c: if you can remember your login on quacky, you should find http://www.quacky.co.uk/sqwebmail works as a web based email client, you can send with any id you choose
[17:00:13] <bobh> bobh is now known as rayh
[17:01:21] <paul_c> Morning Ray.
[17:03:00] <rayh> Hi Paul
[17:03:09] <rayh> Did 4.10 install.
[17:03:37] <paul_c> yes - CD in the post.
[17:03:59] <rayh> Fantastic.
[17:04:20] <rayh> Cause this knoppix is just about dead.
[17:04:46] <rayh> And I am ready to completely quit my own kernel stuff.
[17:05:15] <rayh> Have you got a plan for getting the 2.6 versions of emc stuff into sf.
[17:05:55] <paul_c> some of it is there, juust need to clean up a few more files and commit the remainder
[17:06:18] <rayh> A tag?
[17:08:31] <paul_c> will probably tag with the deb version number
[17:10:03] <cradek> again I request that you tag whatever is in each BDI release with that BDI's number.
[17:10:26] <paul_c> can use multiple tags.
[17:10:31] <cradek> otherwise I can't help anyone who is using BDI.
[17:14:04] <paul_c> rayh: Did you have any docs you wanted adding to this CD ?
[17:15:57] <rayh> Linux cookbook and apt howto.
[17:18:01] <SteveStallings> I'll second the apt howto especially
[17:20:35] <paul_c> If you want them included, now's the time to send them over.
[17:24:32] <paul_c> What do you think of the idea of splitting the kernel modules in to a seperate package ?
[17:25:36] <rayh> Does that get us back near rcslib and emc or is this different.
[17:26:55] <paul_c> freqmod, smdromod, etc in one package, and all the plat/nonrealtime stuff in another (along with the configs & docs)
[17:28:09] <rayh> Will that get us around the issue I had with the reinstall?
[17:28:37] <paul_c> It would help
[17:40:42] <robin_sz> there seems to be a debian tradition of splitting an app into
[17:40:50] <robin_sz> foobar and foobar-modules
[17:41:27] <robin_sz> foobar-modules being the kernel modules, obviously
[17:43:16] <robin_sz> how about a emc pseudo-package that includes the emc-application and emc-modules, and depends on kernel-image-rtai_whatvere
[17:44:08] <robin_sz> then any debian user can just add a source to his/her /etc/apt/sources and apt-get install emc
[17:44:49] <robin_sz> just choose whther you want the stable or bleeding-edge emc by changing the source line
[17:45:16] <rayh> Would there ever be a time that one would want one half of the whole without the other?
[17:45:23] <robin_sz> no
[17:45:37] <robin_sz> oh
[17:45:39] <robin_sz> without
[17:45:42] <robin_sz> yes possobly
[17:45:52] <robin_sz> if you just wanted the sim stuff
[17:46:12] <robin_sz> I guess only emc-modules should depend on the kernel-image-rtai
[17:46:23] <robin_sz> emc-app neednt I guess
[17:46:53] <rayh> From past experience I'm skeptical.
[17:47:13] <rayh> Although one might upgrade the interpreter or gui and use the same motion modules.
[17:48:09] <robin_sz> I see the stable and bleeding edge being .debs that anyone who can type a command can install
[17:48:20] <robin_sz> if you want to mix and match, you'll need the source
[17:48:49] <robin_sz> but again, it should be the debian source package
[17:49:13] <robin_sz> apt-get source emc-application
[17:49:47] <rayh> paul_c: would you also split the source into two packages?
[17:51:47] <paul_c> no - Single source
[17:52:09] <rayh> So it would need to build and replace both of the bin packages?
[17:52:21] <robin_sz> there could be two make commands
[17:52:29] <robin_sz> make install_app
[17:52:34] <robin_sz> make install_modules
[17:52:34] <rayh> Right.
[17:52:40] <paul_c> nope
[17:52:51] <paul_c> kpkg-buildpackage
[17:53:05] <paul_c> then use dpkg to install.
[17:53:05] <robin_sz> kpkg? whatthat?
[17:53:17] <paul_c> dpkg-buildpackage
[17:53:31] <robin_sz> right,
[17:53:44] <robin_sz> sounds sane
[17:54:00] <rayh> The only remaining bothersome detail is throwing out a good working EMC in order to test another.
[17:54:28] <robin_sz> not really a problem is it? as you can just apt-get it back?
[17:54:42] <rayh> As if...
[17:54:54] <robin_sz> presumably thats where it cam from
[17:54:56] <paul_c> you can use dpkg to install an older version
[17:56:15] <paul_c> one advantage of splitting the RT modules - You can have multiple kernels that should all be able to run EMC
[17:56:44] <robin_sz> sounds sane
[17:57:11] <paul_c> back in a bit - gotta go and do some testing.
[17:57:12] <rayh> I've not had any luck with dpkg backing up. With knoppix here is is a disaster.
[17:58:44] <rayh> 'course that's the bleeding edge version rather than testing.
[18:27:22] <robin_sz> rayh: ive not had any luck with the knoppix stuff, my boxes dislike the installer
[18:27:54] <paul_c> I'll look at splitting up the package when I do a 2.6.10 build - Use that version to correct a number of other issues at the same time.
[18:28:14] <robin_sz> rayh: I get some error about 'broken or incompattible bios'
[18:28:47] <robin_sz> rayh: I get a similar one with debian sarge, but I can get around that with floppies
[18:43:24] <rayh_> rayh_ is now known as rayh
[18:48:40] <robin_sz> * robin_sz wonders if the realtime features of 2.6.10 will be useful
[18:49:28] <paul_c> not for hard realtime control.
[18:50:18] <robin_sz> possibly not for stepper based stuff
[18:50:35] <robin_sz> makes me wonder about servo loops though
[18:50:55] <robin_sz> esp. with the availablity of high resolution realtime timers
[19:05:15] <rayh> robin_sz: I think the MatPLC folk are using the stock 2.6 in a series of experiments.
[19:07:07] <robin_sz> rayh: ive seen a couple of projects switch from other RT solutions to the 2.6 native timers
[19:07:58] <robin_sz> one was using quite a novel idea, theres a hardware timer in the USB_UHCI stuff you can genenrate predicatabel interrupts with
[19:08:53] <rayh> I saw something about that.
[19:10:03] <rayh> Was thinking of a little hardware interface that would store a few loops of the motion stuff.
[19:10:33] <rayh> enough to cover one usb loop.
[20:05:05] <numist> sorry
[20:05:15] <numist> have to check modes for a user
[20:05:36] <numist> sorry bout the interruption
[20:13:15] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega prods paul_c
[20:14:08] <asdfqwega> My Knoppix is dead (and broken), long live the Debian
[20:15:35] <A-L-P-H-A> mirc is having such issues. :(
[20:16:08] <asdfqwega> paul, I got the impression from some things on here and your email on emc-users, that the .deb builds have problems?
[20:17:22] <asdfqwega> I was having problems with homing in emc-0.0.1-11-i386.deb, and I really hope it wasn't just me :P
[20:19:30] <asdfqwega> Namely, hardware was OK, IO_Show said signals were good, but homing wasn't getting them.
[20:20:33] <asdfqwega> I had some other problems, but they were probably Knoppix or hardware related - I'll find out when I test the old motherboard
[20:47:09] <paul_c> asdfqwega: emc-0.0.1-11 has a bug that homing triggers.
[20:47:28] <paul_c> it is fixed in 0.0.1-14
[20:49:43] <paul_c> * paul_c sneaks off for lunch.
[20:50:14] <asdfqwega> Cool.
[20:50:55] <asdfqwega> I'll bre-...er, try it out right away ;)
[20:55:23] <asdfqwega> Hm...I'm getting about 1% dropped packets on the wireless link...
[20:55:44] <asdfqwega> I guess it's so cold, they're freezing in mid-air and falling on the ground :)
[21:24:46] <robin_z> ive gone already?
[21:51:33] <robin_s> meep
[23:13:09] <les> hey robin
[23:14:23] <les> A guy called me about a feed override manual potentiometer connection for servo emc
[23:14:35] <les> anyone done this?
[23:14:56] <les> Would need to use an analog in on the card
[23:15:36] <paul_c> and make a few changes to the GUI and/or the task controller...
[23:15:51] <les> hmm
[23:16:44] <les> anyway this guy is a machine rebuilder in atlanta and wants to use emc
[23:17:09] <les> I can show him some emc things....
[23:17:14] <paul_c> It wouldn't need much to code up - The biggest challenge would be reading from the ADC
[23:17:35] <les> just an io port right?
[23:18:28] <les> and connect that number to whatever nml message is used for feed override
[23:18:30] <paul_c> 'pends if the ADC is a stand-alone or on a card (like STG or Vital)
[23:18:46] <les> This guy just bought a vital
[23:19:21] <paul_c> You could write an NML handler, but hacking in to the GUI or task controller would be less effort
[23:19:21] <les> I think it has plenty of spare adc
[23:19:30] <les> yeah
[23:20:10] <les> some seem to want real knobs to turn rather than gui stuff
[23:20:25] <les> They are a bit slow on a marginal computer
[23:20:40] <les> axis on a fast computer might be much better
[23:21:42] <les> Oh well...I am just looking to get a BP sries 2 to retro from this guy
[23:21:53] <les> have been hunting
[23:22:14] <les> plenty around
[23:22:26] <les> but also needs to be close
[23:23:03] <les> ha...funny...I start making some halfway reasonable money and what do I do?
[23:23:14] <les> buy many more tools of course
[23:23:40] <les> do I really need them?
[23:23:44] <les> um
[23:23:47] <les> yes.
[23:24:20] <les> For an excellent feeling of satisfaction if nothing else
[23:24:34] <les> cast iron junkie
[23:24:57] <les> What I really need is more space
[23:25:05] <les> that shop has become tiny
[23:33:15] <paul_c> If you convince the guy that EMC is for him, I can customise a CD...
[23:43:15] <gezr> hello
[23:48:57] <paul_c> afternoon gezr
[23:57:56] <les> sorry was away emailing him back
[23:58:03] <les> hi gezr
[23:59:01] <les> Paul: this guy wants to try to make a living retrofitting old machines with emc
[23:59:09] <les> tough business
[23:59:24] <les> I ought to have him talk with Matt haha
[23:59:53] <les> Matt the real estate agent