#emc | Logs for 2005-01-26

[00:01:07] <robin_sz> * robin_sz orders a new servre
[00:01:11] <robin_sz> server even
[00:02:27] <robin_sz> our current box is 17U, dual P3 600
[00:07:03] <paul_c> Afternoon...
[00:07:15] <bobh> Hi Paul,
[00:07:27] <bobh> Darn name trasher.
[00:07:32] <bobh> bobh is now known as rayh
[00:07:47] <paul_c> Hi Ray
[00:08:03] <paul_c> Nailed that bug, now hit another problem.
[00:08:06] <rayh> Was just reading the post from the fellow who wanted to do it himself.
[00:08:33] <rayh> Here I sit with a knoppix i did and it is gradually sinking.
[00:08:47] <rayh> What is the status of the new release?
[00:09:15] <paul_c> Looks like I need to raid another box for memory.
[00:10:02] <rayh> Wot! 2.6 is a memory hog.
[00:10:21] <paul_c> no, but the BDI CD build system is.
[00:11:07] <rayh> Oh. Right.
[00:11:17] <rayh> Big hog.
[00:11:49] <rayh> Not quite as bad as Morph or Knoppix but....
[00:12:44] <rayh> Are you needing to expand your laptop?
[00:14:30] <paul_c> using a Dell donated (hijacked) by Matt over @ S.
[00:15:22] <rayh> Okay. We just need him to hijack another memory stick and a hard drive, eh.
[00:16:02] <paul_c> I brought my own HD preloaded with all I (thought) I need.
[00:16:24] <rayh> What was causing the homing problem with 4.08
[00:17:39] <paul_c> A page fault in the leadscrew comp routines
[00:19:09] <rayh> Really. That sounds like some great dectective(sp) work
[00:20:05] <paul_c> A few strategic print statements, and a hunch.
[00:20:26] <rayh> It's the hunch that makes the difference.
[00:21:08] <paul_c> It's a pity the AMD doesn't produce a kernel oops like my celeron test box did.
[00:21:46] <rayh> Wow. So the celeron is a better development box?
[00:21:58] <paul_c> It would have been much easier to run the oops through one of the debugging tools
[00:22:56] <paul_c> Given the choice between a Celeron & AMD for dev work, I'd use both.
[00:23:23] <paul_c> the AMD fails a little more gracefully.
[00:24:28] <paul_c> I'm going to have to split - Dee is cooking dinner and she'll shout at me if I'm late again.
[00:25:46] <paul_c> Will be here again from 9AM
[00:26:47] <rayh> Hi John.
[00:26:53] <jmkasunich> hi Ray
[00:26:58] <jmkasunich> I was just looking for you
[00:27:13] <rayh> I'm a bit over the horizon.
[00:27:32] <rayh> but I'm waving in your direction.
[00:31:48] <rayh> jmkasunich: Did that storm dump there?
[00:33:02] <jmkasunich> well that was annoyin
[00:33:34] <jmkasunich> moving some crap around on my bench and hit the switch on the power strip that feeds the puter\
[00:34:03] <jmkasunich> rayh, you still here?
[00:34:11] <rayh> You bet.
[00:34:29] <jmkasunich> you have any use for AllenBradley 1394 AC servo stuff?
[00:34:49] <rayh> Yes! You got some?
[00:34:53] <jmkasunich> oodles
[00:35:17] <jmkasunich> they're closing down a lab (or maybe just cleaning it up) and a mind-boggling amount of stuff is getting scrapped
[00:35:20] <rayh> A couple of integration guys were asking if there would be any ac servo stuff at Roland's.
[00:35:35] <jmkasunich> I already pulled 8 1Kw motors and 15 2Kw axis modules out
[00:35:58] <rayh> The dumpster?
[00:36:01] <jmkasunich> just today I snagged 6 real nice jog-wheels
[00:36:19] <jmkasunich> yep - actually the loading dock, from which it would be loaded onto a truck
[00:36:36] <jmkasunich> I don't actually have to dive into the dumpster
[00:36:43] <rayh> Darn. Makes working for corporate sound attractive.
[00:36:50] <jmkasunich> this stuff is _probably_ perfectly workable
[00:37:03] <jmkasunich> you're familiar with the modular layout of the 1394?
[00:37:12] <jmkasunich> (you probably know more about it than I do)
[00:37:19] <rayh> All we need is a good way to get it to Ill for the fest.
[00:37:51] <jmkasunich> anyway, the axis modules seem perfectly fine, but the power supply/controller sections are engineering prototypes, lots of cuts and jumpers, no docs, etc
[00:44:09] <robin_sz> you are tooooooo lucky :)
[00:44:26] <jmkasunich> It pains me to see all that stuff going to the trash
[00:44:29] <robin_sz> 8 motors, 15 drives!!
[00:44:37] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:44:38] <jmkasunich> that was the first batch
[00:44:42] <robin_sz> !!!
[00:44:42] <jmkasunich> there are more in the dock now
[00:44:55] <robin_sz> save some for me :)
[00:45:00] <jmkasunich> some of them would be perfect test benches
[00:45:27] <jmkasunich> 4 motors, 4 axis drive unit, all mounted in a rolling cart or 19" relay rack (originally used to develop the products)
[00:45:52] <robin_sz> 1kw motors are a nice size for practical machines
[00:46:12] <jmkasunich> the stuff is designed for 380/480V tho
[00:46:21] <robin_sz> encoders as well I presume?
[00:46:38] <jmkasunich> there is some kind of encoder built into the motor
[00:46:43] <robin_sz> lovely
[00:47:02] <jmkasunich> some of them are labeled "absolute", probably so they can be used to comutate the motor
[00:47:10] <robin_sz> whatever, I presume the AC380 is rectified to 560DC ...
[00:47:15] <robin_sz> inside the drive?
[00:47:21] <jmkasunich> yep
[00:47:52] <robin_sz> so, a 240 single phase, txfmr -> rec, 560 DC @3kw ..
[00:47:57] <robin_sz> job done
[00:49:08] <robin_sz> unless they have all that 'one phase is missing, one phase sameas another pahse' nonsense in them
[00:49:30] <robin_sz> nice dumpster dive though :)
[00:49:47] <jmkasunich> they are modular, one section is the DC power supply and brains, then there are axis modules with the current loops, PWM gen, and power module
[00:50:08] <robin_sz> extra neat! ...
[00:50:21] <robin_sz> I presume you have a 4x4 to haul this stuff home?
[00:50:31] <robin_sz> and a huge basement :)
[00:51:18] <jmkasunich> pickup truck, yes (not 4x4), huge basement no
[00:52:00] <robin_sz> garage?
[00:52:18] <jmkasunich> yep, but cold damp, and rusty
[00:52:19] <robin_sz> or is that full already ;)
[00:52:37] <robin_sz> well, theres always space for servos!!
[00:52:49] <robin_sz> stack them around the TV
[00:53:02] <jmkasunich> for that nice rainbow effect?
[00:53:29] <robin_sz> for that nice complaining wife effect :)
[00:54:23] <robin_sz> you just have to build something now
[00:55:27] <jmkasunich> too many projects, too little time
[00:55:33] <robin_sz> sigh
[00:55:35] <robin_sz> too te
[00:55:38] <robin_sz> true
[00:56:09] <robin_sz> try not to spend too much of it in the basement staring at a screen then :)
[00:56:20] <robin_sz> life considered too short!!
[01:01:26] <robin_sz> well, im jealous of your servo find jmkasunich
[01:01:56] <jmkasunich> if shipping wasn't so hi I'd send you some
[01:03:08] <robin_sz> thanks ...
[01:03:15] <robin_sz> I suspect shipping is huge
[01:03:26] <robin_sz> I found a servo amp on ebay ...
[01:03:32] <robin_sz> ouput:
[01:03:38] <robin_sz> 330VDC
[01:03:52] <robin_sz> 150A(continuous)
[01:03:58] <robin_sz> 0-5khz
[01:04:31] <robin_sz> its a copley ... output 50KVA, in 53KVA, quite fficient
[01:05:12] <jmkasunich> www.ab.com/motion/servo/
[01:05:30] <jmkasunich> follow links to 1394 (drives) or 1326 (motors)
[01:06:23] <robin_sz> 1326 AB torque plus?
[01:06:47] <jmkasunich> dunno which ones
[01:06:52] <jmkasunich> just 1326
[01:07:34] <jmkasunich> (they're still piled under a bench in the lab... waiting for me to load and bring home, or toss back in the dumpster, depending on whether I can find uses (or users) for them
[01:08:10] <robin_sz> look lovely,
[01:09:26] <robin_sz> http://www.ab.com/motion/servo/1326ab_460v.html
[01:09:30] <robin_sz> these ones?
[01:09:48] <jmkasunich> probably
[01:09:56] <robin_sz> http://www.ab.com/motion/servo/1326as_460v.html
[01:10:00] <jmkasunich> either 1326ab or 1326AS
[01:10:04] <robin_sz> yeah.
[01:10:11] <robin_sz> very nice
[01:10:16] <jmkasunich> 5000RPM, 2.7N*m (24in-lb)
[01:10:38] <robin_sz> * robin_sz ponders sending a suitcase
[01:11:00] <jmkasunich> I even have cables that mate with the motor connectors
[01:11:11] <robin_sz> jealous :)
[01:11:22] <jmkasunich> you'll have to carry the suitcase... I don't do customs paperwork
[01:12:30] <robin_sz> probably the AB, the AS has resolvers, the AB has encodes, including absolute
[01:12:46] <jmkasunich> I'm pretty sure these have encoders
[01:12:53] <robin_sz> AB then
[01:13:58] <robin_sz> 1kw is a great size for medium sized mills, routers, etc etc
[01:14:19] <robin_sz> 3 axis sets would probably sell on ebay quite nicely
[01:14:30] <jmkasunich> just wish the drives didn't use the proprietary interfaces
[01:17:16] <robin_sz> yeah, thats a slight niggle
[01:18:56] <robin_sz> right, bedtime
[02:26:37] <A-L-P-H-A> ALLL RIGHT!!!! Another cut... and this one stinks.
[02:26:39] <A-L-P-H-A> stings
[02:31:14] <A-L-P-H-A> guys want to check out something cool? This is sheetmetal, laser cut... I think it's 150 microns thick... bout the same thickness of cheap paper. http://www.mikroworld.com
[02:31:35] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.mikromart.com/pr_house01_photo.htm
[02:31:53] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.mikromart.com/ <-- listing of them all.
[02:34:57] <A-L-P-H-A> Funny thing is I know this girl that bought the 65# one... but she's now affraid to assemble is, they come unfoldedup, just cut. heh. Affraid she'll squish it somehow.
[04:29:20] <A-L-P-H-A> Can I have the "ls --color=always" set in an environment variable so when I type ls, it knows to do color for me?
[04:34:07] <cradek> alias ls='ls --color=always'
[04:35:05] <asdfqwega> Oh, so that's how it's done?
[04:35:38] <asdfqwega> I'm trying out Debian Sarge, and I have to sort out all the little details
[04:36:33] <asdfqwega> I broke Knoppix :D
[04:37:41] <A-L-P-H-A> :) I finally got it from #bash. :) hehe
[04:37:55] <A-L-P-H-A> so, what I've accomplished today... give myself a new nasty cut.
[04:38:30] <A-L-P-H-A> made my BASH prompt for my server that I use [not MY server, but someone's]. installed nano [without root], installed new coreutils [without root]
[04:40:54] <asdfqwega> I need to find some way of having icons/quicklauncher on fluxbox - if I can have konsole
[04:41:10] <asdfqwega> flux loads lots faster than KDE
[04:42:55] <asdfqwega> And THEN...I need to figure out a way to save the entire state of the installation - because the more hours I put into tweaking/tuning/config, the more likely it is to die on me :P
[04:46:46] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe... the true optimist.
[09:42:37] <alex_joni> g'morning
[09:48:16] <anonimasu> morning
[09:48:16] <anonimasu> :)
[09:51:17] <alex_joni> hey anon
[09:51:26] <alex_joni> did you get emc2 running last night?
[09:58:03] <anonimasu> alex_joni: no
[09:59:02] <alex_joni> hmm.. problems?
[09:59:13] <alex_joni> emc-related?
[09:59:19] <alex_joni> or still that tk-stuff
[12:09:51] <anonimasu> fell asleeno
[12:10:06] <anonimasu> I fell asleep before I had a chance to test it out
[12:27:49] <alex_joni> coo
[12:27:50] <alex_joni> meep?
[12:38:36] <anonimasu> :)
[12:40:58] <alex_joni> I managed not to weld today ;)
[12:41:05] <alex_joni> but tomorrow... I'll have to
[12:41:06] <alex_joni> :)
[13:02:59] <robin_sz> welding ... baaaad.
[13:03:31] <robin_sz> or at least mine is :)
[13:03:51] <alex_joni> mine is goood :D
[13:03:59] <robin_sz> by hand or robot?
[13:04:00] <alex_joni> at least I like to call it mine...
[13:04:04] <alex_joni> robot ;)
[13:04:05] <robin_sz> heh :)
[13:04:12] <alex_joni> not easy though
[13:04:35] <alex_joni> but I had some dudes I was teaching yesterday
[13:04:40] <alex_joni> and I used a dimmer mask
[13:04:44] <alex_joni> :(
[13:04:48] <robin_sz> its nice to be able to do runs at precise feeds and currents and then lay them out and choose the one you want
[13:04:56] <alex_joni> had a few problems with my eyes last night
[13:05:01] <robin_sz> ahh.
[13:05:13] <robin_sz> dimmer masks are normally ok no?
[13:05:21] <alex_joni> depends...
[13:05:29] <alex_joni> they are ok for manual welding
[13:05:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni talks abou tthose LCD types
[13:05:44] <robin_sz> yep
[13:05:46] <alex_joni> not so good for robot welding
[13:05:50] <robin_sz> why?
[13:05:51] <alex_joni> because...
[13:05:57] <alex_joni> I keep the mask in my hand
[13:06:02] <alex_joni> along with the teach-pendant
[13:06:32] <alex_joni> and by holding it like that.. they sometimes get an angle
[13:06:40] <robin_sz> un dims?
[13:06:41] <alex_joni> not fully 100% perpendicular to the weld
[13:06:47] <alex_joni> doesn't undim...
[13:06:56] <alex_joni> but protection fades somehow
[13:07:01] <robin_sz> oh, weird
[13:07:06] <alex_joni> if you keep it perpendicular it's 100%
[13:07:08] <robin_sz> heres a suggestion
[13:07:16] <alex_joni> tilt it by 20 degs, it's only 50%
[13:07:18] <robin_sz> bit radical, but worht trying
[13:07:23] <alex_joni> * alex_joni listens
[13:07:28] <robin_sz> have you considered ... and dont laugh,
[13:07:37] <robin_sz> putting the mask on your head?
[13:07:56] <alex_joni> actually yes..
[13:08:05] <alex_joni> but that's not feasible.. with robot welding
[13:08:12] <alex_joni> because I need to adjust parameters
[13:08:24] <alex_joni> and to do that I need to see my hands & the teach-pendant
[13:08:37] <alex_joni> I adjust around 4-10 params
[13:08:47] <alex_joni> and that's hard by guessing ;)
[13:09:02] <robin_sz> what about a big lump of weld glass as a shield attached near the torch?
[13:09:29] <alex_joni> again not good in all situations.. the selding direction changes ;)
[13:09:39] <robin_sz> I guess an normal mask is best bet then
[13:09:40] <alex_joni> soemtimes left->right, sometimes right->left
[13:09:42] <alex_joni> yup
[13:09:46] <alex_joni> I agree
[13:10:00] <alex_joni> and I used a normal mask yesterday... only a lighter one (DIN 11)
[13:10:13] <alex_joni> I meant somthing else by dimmer the first time...
[13:10:14] <robin_sz> presumably there is some sort of shielding when its in use, so everyone in the area doesnt have to wear eye protection?
[13:10:32] <alex_joni> well.. I am talking about a particular case here
[13:10:49] <alex_joni> I was teaching some dudes how to do it
[13:10:54] <alex_joni> each had his mask
[13:10:57] <robin_sz> right
[13:11:08] <alex_joni> and I chose lighter masks to be able to see the arc better
[13:11:15] <alex_joni> shape, seam, etc
[13:11:21] <robin_sz> right
[13:11:29] <alex_joni> normally I don't use anything below DIN 14
[13:11:34] <alex_joni> that's ok
[13:11:37] <robin_sz> mine is a variable thing
[13:11:43] <alex_joni> I scrap those ;)
[13:11:53] <alex_joni> actually I sell them.. but I don't like them
[13:11:57] <robin_sz> but only rated to 200 amps .. I dont think it goes dark enough
[13:12:02] <alex_joni> usually they go up to 13 DIN
[13:12:07] <robin_sz> yeah
[13:12:09] <alex_joni> I weld around 2x400 Amps
[13:12:13] <robin_sz> :)
[13:12:16] <alex_joni> that's a lot ;)
[13:12:26] <alex_joni> I had a nice problem at one time...
[13:12:27] <robin_sz> 12mm plate in a single pass
[13:12:35] <alex_joni> not really single pass
[13:12:38] <alex_joni> but.. fast
[13:12:40] <robin_sz> root and cover
[13:12:50] <alex_joni> you can do 2 passes by the time manual hasn't finished one
[13:12:51] <alex_joni> ;)
[13:12:57] <robin_sz> yeah
[13:13:07] <robin_sz> do you weave on the cover pass?
[13:13:15] <alex_joni> I weave everything
[13:13:22] <robin_sz> oh.
[13:13:35] <robin_sz> forhand ?
[13:13:35] <alex_joni> only some very thin materials (very small a-values) I don't
[13:13:40] <robin_sz> forehand I meant
[13:13:42] <alex_joni> sorry?
[13:13:51] <alex_joni> * alex_joni doesn't know forehand...
[13:14:19] <robin_sz> pointing torch forwards, away from weld, or backhand (back towards the weld)
[13:14:47] <alex_joni> depends on the weld needed
[13:14:55] <robin_sz> sure
[13:14:59] <alex_joni> forward is good for nice welds (poor quality)
[13:15:14] <alex_joni> backhand is good for penetration (bad looking weld)
[13:15:22] <robin_sz> I'll weave on forehand soemtimes, if I need it wide
[13:15:38] <alex_joni> I need to weave because I use seamtracking
[13:15:40] <robin_sz> but backhand I usually let it big in deep and build a high bead
[13:15:43] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[13:15:57] <robin_sz> yeah, better penetration, narrow bead
[13:15:59] <alex_joni> that's why I like Tandem...
[13:16:03] <alex_joni> you have 2 wires
[13:16:05] <alex_joni> angled
[13:16:18] <alex_joni> the first one points backward (good for penetration)
[13:16:25] <robin_sz> one weld pool? or two?
[13:16:30] <alex_joni> the second one points forehand (good for quality)
[13:16:33] <alex_joni> same weld pool
[13:16:37] <alex_joni> same arc even
[13:16:38] <robin_sz> coo
[13:16:43] <alex_joni> but 2 power sources
[13:16:48] <alex_joni> 2 wire drives
[13:16:53] <alex_joni> 2 current tips
[13:16:59] <alex_joni> everything separated
[13:16:59] <robin_sz> so height is critical
[13:17:02] <alex_joni> yup
[13:17:13] <alex_joni> you need to keep the distance constant
[13:17:19] <alex_joni> but seamtracking does that
[13:17:19] <alex_joni> ;)
[13:17:43] <robin_sz> semtracking? .. oh you mean its on two little wheels :)
[13:18:09] <alex_joni> nope
[13:18:13] <robin_sz> some probe runs down the seam?
[13:18:20] <alex_joni> it's done by measuring the arc-voltage
[13:18:25] <alex_joni> (or current, same thing)
[13:18:50] <alex_joni> and by measuring that (and knowing when it's weaving) it measures the distance to the two materials I'm welding
[13:19:00] <alex_joni> and it can adjust the position along the weldseam..
[13:19:07] <robin_sz> heh
[13:19:07] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is not sure if he's clear...
[13:19:19] <alex_joni> know what I mean?
[13:19:39] <alex_joni> imagine you have the most simple weld: a V-shape
[13:20:05] <robin_sz> so it sees the voltage go like this______/\__/\__/\
[13:20:23] <robin_sz> and by comparing the phase to the phase of the weave, it knows where it is
[13:20:31] <alex_joni> smthg like that
[13:20:49] <alex_joni> when the robot reaches the left amplitude it tells a piece of hw
[13:21:03] <alex_joni> now I'm left, and that HW measures the momentary value
[13:21:15] <alex_joni> when the robot reaches right, it tells now I'm right
[13:21:20] <alex_joni> again a measurement is made
[13:21:26] <alex_joni> the two values get compared
[13:21:37] <alex_joni> and then the HW tells the robot go-left or go-right
[13:21:40] <alex_joni> to adjust
[13:21:44] <robin_sz> so that only really works when you are in the V
[13:21:55] <alex_joni> it works for |_ too
[13:22:00] <robin_sz> ah yes
[13:22:09] <alex_joni> or any welds which can be measured by different currents
[13:22:19] <alex_joni> can't weld -|-
[13:22:24] <robin_sz> but thin butt jinted sheet
[13:22:28] <alex_joni> with seamtracking
[13:22:29] <robin_sz> lik 4mm
[13:22:46] <alex_joni> I've seen it work down to 3.5 mm welds
[13:22:53] <robin_sz> coo
[13:22:57] <alex_joni> |_ A=3.5
[13:23:01] <robin_sz> right
[13:23:03] <alex_joni> pretty fast too
[13:23:10] <alex_joni> 80cm/min
[13:23:20] <alex_joni> but for faster you need a laser-sensor
[13:23:39] <alex_joni> I've seen welds up to 2.5m/min (tandem) on thin sheets
[13:23:49] <robin_sz> warping?
[13:24:00] <alex_joni> ;)
[13:24:17] <alex_joni> if you go really fast, you don't have so much heat-input
[13:24:41] <alex_joni> anyways... besides the transversal seam-tracking
[13:24:49] <alex_joni> there is one component which measures height
[13:24:57] <alex_joni> it measures an median-value
[13:25:09] <alex_joni> and you can adjust the value it should reach
[13:25:12] <robin_sz> accoustic?
[13:25:26] <alex_joni> nah... also current-value
[13:25:32] <alex_joni> median=average
[13:25:33] <robin_sz> oh ok
[13:25:47] <alex_joni> * alex_joni confuses some words...
[13:25:59] <alex_joni> different in german, romanian, english...
[13:26:02] <robin_sz> same as plasma then, just monitor the voltage
[13:26:06] <alex_joni> mostly false-friends
[13:26:10] <alex_joni> something like that
[13:26:19] <alex_joni> only you don't really wave the plasma :D
[13:26:36] <alex_joni> at least not the height ;)
[13:26:37] <robin_sz> hopefully not
[13:26:57] <robin_sz> I have a Hypertherm powermax on demo,
[13:27:00] <alex_joni> cool
[13:27:05] <robin_sz> nice kit, complicated torch
[13:27:08] <alex_joni> cloos works with hypertherm...
[13:27:17] <alex_joni> but too expensive for .ro
[13:27:22] <alex_joni> we sell SPT
[13:27:29] <alex_joni> nice machines, pretty cheap
[13:30:54] <alex_joni> http://www.spt.se/
[13:31:45] <anonimasu> nice
[13:31:55] <alex_joni> I like the Sparcin 5C
[13:32:05] <alex_joni> it's very small with air-compressor included ;)
[13:37:37] <alex_joni> I even learned some swedish while talking to them...
[13:37:43] <alex_joni> all I know now is: Med v�nliga h�lsningar
[14:09:33] <robin_sz> ooh, fun new server ordered :)
[14:09:53] <alex_joni> what kind?
[14:09:57] <robin_sz> Dell
[14:10:04] <alex_joni> coo
[14:10:06] <alex_joni> big?
[14:10:13] <robin_sz> small. 1U,
[14:10:25] <alex_joni> nice ;)
[14:10:31] <alex_joni> dual-processor ?
[14:10:40] <robin_sz> dual Xeon, scsi raid, 2 psu, 2 36gb@10Krpm
[14:10:46] <robin_sz> 1gb ram
[14:11:07] <alex_joni> raid?
[14:11:13] <robin_sz> raid 1
[14:11:14] <alex_joni> the 2 36 GB ?
[14:11:15] <alex_joni> coo
[14:11:21] <alex_joni> sounds about right :D
[14:11:56] <robin_sz> tho box it is replacing is 2 x P3 600mhz
[14:12:03] <robin_sz> scsi raid5
[14:12:09] <robin_sz> dual PSU
[14:12:26] <robin_sz> and all in a tiny 17u chassis
[14:13:10] <robin_sz> so I have an extra 16U in the colo to sell now :)
[14:14:23] <alex_joni> to sell? or to fill ;)
[14:15:20] <robin_sz> to sell and fill!
[14:15:30] <alex_joni> ;)
[14:15:31] <robin_sz> lets say 8 2u slots
[14:15:35] <robin_sz> @ 50 a month ..
[14:15:41] <alex_joni> 400 quid
[14:15:44] <alex_joni> not bad ;)
[14:15:45] <robin_sz> thats ... 400 gpb a month
[14:23:49] <alex_joni> did I tell you I got a kilt?
[14:23:51] <alex_joni> :P
[14:24:06] <robin_sz> kewl
[14:24:13] <robin_sz> we spell it differently over here
[14:24:25] <alex_joni> yeah.. didn't get the chance to wear it thou...
[14:24:27] <alex_joni> how?
[14:24:37] <robin_sz> with an 's' at the front
[14:24:54] <alex_joni> really?
[14:24:57] <robin_sz> yeah.
[14:25:00] <robin_sz> oh,
[14:25:10] <robin_sz> and change the 'l' for an 'r'
[14:25:23] <alex_joni> not funny ;)
[14:25:59] <robin_sz> my shooting buddy is scots, I am practiced in the art of taking the piss :)
[14:26:54] <alex_joni> I think I'll visit scotland one day..
[14:26:59] <alex_joni> seems nice..
[14:27:02] <robin_sz> its nice enough
[14:27:07] <alex_joni> uk too ;)
[14:27:09] <robin_sz> if you like rain :)
[14:27:20] <alex_joni> it can't rain all the time...
[14:27:31] <alex_joni> http://www.kanyak.com/skilt.html :P
[14:27:46] <robin_sz> in scotland it does rain, or snow. or worst ... 'scotch mist'
[14:28:18] <alex_joni> scotch... ok ;) .. mist.. no way
[14:29:01] <robin_sz> midges.
[14:29:08] <robin_sz> like a small mosquito
[14:29:28] <robin_sz> so dense in places, people call them scotch mist
[14:29:37] <robin_sz> bit of a problem in summer
[14:30:00] <robin_sz> one of the two real problem creatures that inhabit Scotland
[14:34:48] <alex_joni> the other beeing scots?
[14:34:57] <robin_sz> nah, tourists :)
[14:35:04] <alex_joni> ahhh ;)
[14:35:05] <alex_joni> coo
[14:35:13] <alex_joni> I remember a funny thing some time ago...
[14:35:23] <alex_joni> there was an german ambassador in bukarest
[14:35:24] <robin_sz> and I guess, the scots pursuit of tourists for money
[14:35:34] <alex_joni> or some employee of the ambasade
[14:35:43] <alex_joni> and he said: "Romania is a very nice country...
[14:35:50] <alex_joni> too bad it's habited."
[14:35:52] <alex_joni> lol
[14:35:55] <robin_sz> hah
[14:36:15] <alex_joni> he lost his job the next day
[14:36:19] <alex_joni> not very diplomatic ;)
[14:36:22] <robin_sz> my friend has a romanian au-pair
[14:36:29] <robin_sz> very nice, tall, blonde ..
[14:36:57] <robin_sz> actually, it seems he now has a divorce and a romanian girlfriend .. ;)
[14:37:13] <alex_joni> hmmm....
[14:37:52] <robin_sz> I dont think his wife was very happy ... what is weird is that she hired the girl ...
[14:38:40] <robin_sz> she should have hired a butt ugly au-pair, not a nice one! ... the temptation was too much for the guy :)
[14:40:19] <alex_joni> lol
[14:40:33] <alex_joni> I laughed a lot this morning...
[14:40:39] <alex_joni> there is a nice radio-show here
[14:40:52] <alex_joni> the guy from the radio phones people and sets them up
[14:41:00] <alex_joni> today he called a cabbie
[14:41:47] <robin_sz> Isuspect romanian cabbies, like Uk cabbies are not known for being polite
[14:42:37] <alex_joni> well.. anyways
[14:42:50] <alex_joni> he said he wanted to hire the cab for half an hour
[14:42:56] <alex_joni> he wanted to have sex inside the cab
[14:43:01] <alex_joni> was a fantasy of his... ;)
[14:43:15] <alex_joni> at first the cabbie didn't agree.. but finally he said his price
[14:43:25] <robin_sz> not with the cabbie I hope!
[14:43:33] <alex_joni> anyways.. about 10 minutes later the radio guy said there were actually 2 chicks
[14:43:53] <alex_joni> and if he gave one to the cabbie he hoped for a price-discount
[14:43:54] <alex_joni> ;)
[14:44:02] <robin_sz> heh,
[14:44:22] <robin_sz> * robin_sz wonders if the cabbies wife was listening
[14:44:27] <alex_joni> anyways.. the cabbie starts asking for the girls names
[14:44:37] <alex_joni> and one of them turned out to be the cabbies wife
[14:44:41] <robin_sz> hah
[14:44:44] <alex_joni> yeah...
[14:44:54] <alex_joni> at that point he got very p%ssed
[14:45:06] <robin_sz> hah,
[14:45:13] <robin_sz> he should have spotted it by then
[14:45:45] <alex_joni> he didn't ..
[14:45:52] <robin_sz> doh
[14:45:54] <alex_joni> he started asking the radio guy where he met her
[14:45:56] <alex_joni> and when
[14:45:58] <alex_joni> lol
[14:46:33] <alex_joni> finally the radio guy said it was a joke
[14:46:38] <alex_joni> set up by the cabbies wife
[14:47:07] <robin_sz> uh huh
[14:47:12] <robin_sz> and he didnt believe it?
[14:47:33] <alex_joni> well in the end he realized it was a joke by his wife
[14:47:43] <alex_joni> and he said she's gonna pay for it :D
[14:47:51] <robin_sz> heh
[14:48:11] <robin_sz> revenge is a dish best served cold :)
[14:48:33] <alex_joni> but he was the guy who agreed to have sex with one of the chicks to lower the price..
[14:48:36] <alex_joni> so I don't know who'll win between him & his wife ;)
[14:49:49] <alex_joni> anyways...
[14:49:58] <alex_joni> I talked to paul yesterday...
[14:50:07] <alex_joni> I'm still not sure about some things....
[14:50:21] <alex_joni> I'm not sure if you followed the discussions lately
[14:50:25] <robin_sz> nope
[14:50:37] <alex_joni> we talked about integrating classicladder
[14:50:38] <alex_joni> with emc
[14:50:44] <robin_sz> why?
[14:50:49] <alex_joni> to do IO stuff
[14:50:55] <robin_sz> what about HAL?
[14:51:05] <alex_joni> hal is just abstraction layer
[14:51:14] <alex_joni> but it doesn't do anything on it's own
[14:51:27] <alex_joni> say... if INPUT door-open, jump over hardware limit
[14:51:27] <robin_sz> it goes out to pins
[14:51:32] <alex_joni> or smthg like that
[14:51:35] <alex_joni> a PLC does
[14:52:03] <alex_joni> I think about complex tool-change systems
[14:52:21] <alex_joni> where a IO-controller (programmable, but without recompiling) is needed
[14:52:29] <alex_joni> not for the normal EMC operation
[14:52:40] <robin_sz> we have many people using that?
[14:52:45] <alex_joni> some
[14:52:50] <robin_sz> really?
[14:53:02] <alex_joni> maybe some who don't use emc because of the luck of such a system
[14:53:06] <alex_joni> rayh complained ;)
[14:53:37] <alex_joni> anyways.. the discussion was about where to link CL to emc
[14:53:39] <robin_sz> well, classicladder is another whol epile of worms
[14:53:49] <alex_joni> I said make HAL pins available to CL
[14:54:04] <alex_joni> and maybe some outputs from CL back to HAL
[14:54:12] <robin_sz> if added 'as standard' it raises the bar again on people starting out with it
[14:54:22] <alex_joni> nah.. standard is left outside
[14:54:30] <alex_joni> I mean not included by standard
[14:54:49] <alex_joni> that would be too much for a new user
[14:55:09] <alex_joni> anyways.. paul sees CL connected to EMC through NML
[14:55:20] <alex_joni> so you can keep the whole thing distributable
[14:55:28] <alex_joni> distributed
[14:55:34] <alex_joni> or how it's spelles
[14:55:36] <alex_joni> or how it's spelled
[14:56:46] <robin_sz> hmmm
[14:57:12] <robin_sz> and jmkasunich agrees that classic ladder does things HAL cant?
[14:57:35] <robin_sz> It sounds to me like it is duplicating stuff
[14:59:11] <alex_joni> not really
[14:59:17] <robin_sz> my view is that EMC is plenty complex enough without adding more layers of complexity on top right now ... sorting out what we have (esp the NML implementation) shoul dbe a highe priority
[14:59:42] <alex_joni> well don't know what can be done with nml...
[15:00:05] <robin_sz> its a huge job to sort ot out properly
[15:00:09] <robin_sz> too big for me
[15:00:10] <alex_joni> yeah
[15:00:14] <alex_joni> ditto
[15:00:44] <robin_sz> but its too messed up to be workable right now
[15:01:19] <alex_joni> I don't think the API is too messed up
[15:01:21] <robin_sz> I suspect EMC2 may never see the light of day as a stable product :(
[15:01:31] <alex_joni> I think the whole concept is somehow wrong
[15:01:41] <alex_joni> the messages & such
[15:01:53] <robin_sz> well, the messaging is sort of ok
[15:02:02] <alex_joni> messaging yes
[15:02:07] <alex_joni> defining messages.. no
[15:02:09] <robin_sz> but the implementation is the worst ive seen
[15:02:13] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[15:02:22] <robin_sz> its like letters.
[15:02:28] <alex_joni> letters?
[15:02:29] <robin_sz> the postman delivers letter
[15:02:49] <robin_sz> he looks at some property of the address to help him deliver it .
[15:03:27] <robin_sz> 1 sort of thing (letter), with many possibilities for a heirarchical property structure
[15:03:38] <robin_sz> we have many, many sort of tings
[15:03:55] <robin_sz> emc_spindle_on sort of letter etc
[15:04:13] <robin_sz> and if our 'postman' hasnt been instructed how to deal with it ....
[15:04:48] <robin_sz> all hell breaks loose
[15:04:56] <alex_joni> yup
[15:05:28] <robin_sz> all we need to know is "this is a spindle messgae, I'll pass it to the spindle, controller, it will knwo what to do'
[15:06:05] <robin_sz> the plan I tried to persude everyone to adopt was this
[15:06:17] <robin_sz> basically emc becomes a framework
[15:06:27] <robin_sz> for passing messages
[15:07:08] <robin_sz> as you add things (like an IO controller) it registers withthe framework what sort of messages it will accept
[15:07:41] <robin_sz> and ... the io controller gets its list of messages it will accept from the items it contains (spindle, tool changer)
[15:08:07] <alex_joni> I see.. and as theres a component added to one within the framework
[15:08:12] <alex_joni> the whole stuff updates..
[15:08:14] <robin_sz> yes
[15:08:25] <alex_joni> nice
[15:08:43] <alex_joni> so if you change the gui (it tells a gui-manager what messages it knows)
[15:08:54] <alex_joni> same for motion, io, task
[15:08:57] <alex_joni> right?
[15:09:12] <robin_sz> same for everything
[15:09:21] <alex_joni> so you won't have specific channels between components
[15:09:24] <robin_sz> gui adaptor the lot
[15:09:41] <alex_joni> you'd have one postman connected to all the other stuf which does the routing
[15:09:52] <robin_sz> basically yes
[15:09:55] <alex_joni> kinda like a message-switch (hardware thinking)
[15:09:59] <robin_sz> yes
[15:10:19] <robin_sz> a mesage is placed on the bus, vthings listen to the buss
[15:10:35] <alex_joni> who recognizes the message type receives it
[15:10:55] <alex_joni> if more than one unit knows how to deal with that type of message they all receive the message
[15:11:11] <robin_sz> yeah, that was basically the idea, I guess it needed some further refinement :)
[15:11:32] <alex_joni> did you start all this?
[15:11:42] <robin_sz> long long time ago :)
[15:11:51] <alex_joni> heh...
[15:11:56] <robin_sz> I wrote some C++ that implememted it
[15:12:03] <robin_sz> very rought though
[15:12:03] <alex_joni> I think the whole libnml needs to be changed
[15:12:12] <robin_sz> no kidding :)
[15:12:13] <alex_joni> to support smthg like this
[15:12:19] <robin_sz> quite
[15:12:39] <alex_joni> but .. on the interface (not top level, but the code underneath) could be kept untouched
[15:13:01] <robin_sz> but ... while one of the key players is putting many hours into libnml, theres not really any point consdiering it
[15:13:44] <alex_joni> it is a key-feature about emc ;)
[15:13:52] <alex_joni> I mean on the original software
[15:13:55] <robin_sz> yes
[15:14:03] <robin_sz> the trouble is ...
[15:14:08] <robin_sz> whoever wrote it ...
[15:14:20] <robin_sz> it MUST have been their first play with C++
[15:14:32] <alex_joni> maybe it started ok...
[15:14:39] <alex_joni> but it grew out of anybodys hands
[15:14:40] <robin_sz> the desing is mad ... I mean, they got it to work, so congrasts to them for that
[15:14:50] <alex_joni> yeah...
[15:14:55] <robin_sz> but really, I dont think they would have done it like that again
[15:15:13] <alex_joni> redo anything in this world.. and it'll get only better ;)
[15:15:21] <alex_joni> I program robots now and then...
[15:15:33] <robin_sz> you MUST be prepared to throw at least one away ...
[15:15:39] <alex_joni> it happened I needed to reprogram stuff, and it always was better the second or third time
[15:17:21] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home...
[15:17:23] <alex_joni> laters
[15:17:32] <robin_sz> cya
[15:18:21] <alex_joni> bye
[15:33:01] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6868504/ time to learn linux.
[15:38:13] <cradek> this is bad news for the anti-spam folks.
[15:39:31] <SteveStallings> it will probably be a boost for Linux as pirate users find they cannot get a free usable windows system, so they go with "the other free OS"
[15:42:45] <A-L-P-H-A> well, linux is mature enough.
[15:42:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got two pressed copied of ubuntu distro
[15:43:05] <A-L-P-H-A> openBSD 3.5
[15:43:09] <A-L-P-H-A> [which btw, I don't like]
[15:46:48] <cradek> SteveStallings: lack of security fixes doesn't make THEIR computer unusable - it just gives me more spam.
[15:47:03] <cradek> me/us
[15:47:55] <jepler> cradek: it makes the internet awfully slow!
[15:48:32] <jepler> (a friend who got hit by one of the worms last summer noticed this as a symptom)
[15:48:35] <cradek> and there are those porn ads I guess
[15:48:46] <cradek> hmm
[15:49:24] <A-L-P-H-A> some people like the porn ads.
[15:50:36] <jepler> .. but wouldn't know where to find it if not for this adware installed on their PC?
[15:50:37] <A-L-P-H-A> Daily dose of Firefox nightly ... :)
[15:50:54] <A-L-P-H-A> there's always torrents. :)
[15:50:57] <A-L-P-H-A> torrents are your friends.
[15:51:23] <cradek> * cradek has never been able to find much of anything but OS distributions using bittorrent
[15:51:41] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, you're not looking in the right places.
[17:02:04] <paul_c> Morning Steve.
[17:02:20] <SteveStallings> morning Paul
[17:19:40] <jepler> so is anyone aware of this stepper control board "G2002"?
[17:20:06] <jepler> it is designed for serial or usb control, and outputs step+direction signals
[17:20:29] <SteveStallings> it is an external pulse generation engine with USB connection to the host
[17:21:13] <SteveStallings> hardware design is freely available
[17:21:31] <jepler> how in the world can the thing work? The "documentation" (in the geckodrive yahoo group, blech) describes sending commands like "accelerate" and "move at a particular step rate". I don't see how you can end up where you want, since you don't know exactly when the commands will get to the board compared to how many steps it's performed
[17:21:39] <SteveStallings> on board CPU is Rabbit and firmware can be downloaded
[17:21:57] <jepler> (that's my understanding based on reading "G2002 Commands Aug 11.pdf")
[17:22:28] <SteveStallings> hardware includes a DDS (direct digital synthesizer) to make the pulse stream
[17:22:57] <SteveStallings> input data is essentially velocity and output is pulses
[17:23:26] <cradek> I'm with jeff on thinking that can't possibly work
[17:23:46] <jepler> but if you send "go towards +X at a step rate of 100Hz", how do you write the next command at the proper time to travel exactly 1"?
[17:23:48] <SteveStallings> design is sync and runs realtime with interrupts, so software can integrate velocity exactly to accumulate distance traveled
[17:25:07] <SteveStallings> there must be a new command for each interrupt interval, buffering is used to supply velocity commands in response to interrupts
[17:25:10] <jepler> and they do all this over USB?
[17:25:52] <SteveStallings> many solutions, most have command buffer in Rabbit code and Rabbit handles interrupts in real time
[17:26:38] <SteveStallings> one version of software has crammed the EMC command interpreter into the Rabbit code and sends G code to the Rabbit (essentially)
[17:27:21] <SteveStallings> others, like MACH2, parse command in PC and send only motion commands to Rabbit
[17:31:19] <SteveStallings> G2002 is still a beta stage thing, only a few dozen exist
[17:41:14] <A-L-P-H-A> strange... i'm getting an increase in "replica watch" spams.
[17:42:24] <A-L-P-H-A> from my understanding, you can send the G2002 gcode commands, and it's supposed to figure it all out. I gave up on that group months ago.
[17:42:49] <A-L-P-H-A> okay i've caught up now.
[17:42:50] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[17:42:51] <A-L-P-H-A> heh.
[17:44:48] <SteveStallings> Yes, there is such a version. Created by Steve Hardy, GNU license, Linux and Win32 versions of host communications frontend.
[17:47:13] <robin_sz> * robin_sz strokes his nice G2002
[17:47:34] <robin_sz> dont forget ther are 2 distinct modes of G2002 ...
[17:48:31] <robin_sz> 'smart mode' .. where you send it a bunch of commands (cooardinates and feedrates, including arcs) and it just produces the motion all by itself
[17:49:01] <robin_sz> and 'dumb' mode .. where you feed it segments
[17:51:13] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, you have a g2002?
[17:51:21] <robin_sz> uh huh
[17:51:29] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[17:51:36] <A-L-P-H-A> how nice does it work?
[17:51:50] <robin_sz> nice ... fast and smooth in smart mode
[17:52:06] <robin_sz> those steppers really spin!
[17:52:08] <A-L-P-H-A> is it essentially this? computer -> g2002 -> motor drivers (steppers/servos)?
[17:52:19] <robin_sz> yes
[17:52:51] <A-L-P-H-A> so what do you use to send it signals?
[17:52:51] <robin_sz> send f5000x400y500 to the G2002 and it goes to thos coards
[17:52:55] <robin_sz> USB
[17:53:03] <A-L-P-H-A> I know that.
[17:53:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I meant software and OS wise.
[17:53:17] <robin_sz> whatever
[17:53:24] <robin_sz> linux, windows
[17:53:40] <robin_sz> its just USB
[17:53:47] <A-L-P-H-A> ahh...
[17:54:13] <A-L-P-H-A> how big is the buffer? is there any confirmation that it can read back? Can it accept encoders and stuff?
[17:54:20] <A-L-P-H-A> how are encoders handled?
[17:54:29] <robin_sz> its pulses out
[17:54:29] <A-L-P-H-A> or is that through the stepper/servo drivers?
[17:54:51] <A-L-P-H-A> what I meant was, is there any feedback to the compute.
[17:54:52] <A-L-P-H-A> computer...
[17:54:52] <robin_sz> so it would be handled by the G310 or whatever the servo thing is
[17:55:16] <A-L-P-H-A> to say if the command was completed, gimme the next command, or done.
[17:55:33] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... I may venture into getting or making one.
[17:55:35] <robin_sz> well, it needs a whole load of commands ...
[17:55:39] <A-L-P-H-A> how many layers is the board?
[17:55:41] <robin_sz> so it can smooththem
[17:55:59] <robin_sz> it basically does what segmotqueue does,
[17:56:08] <A-L-P-H-A> pcb board... :)
[17:56:13] <SteveStallings> Current G2002 does not handle encoders. Anticipated version will, but not sure if real time communication of encoder data is realistic.
[17:56:14] <A-L-P-H-A> I have no clue what segmotqueue is.
[17:56:33] <robin_sz> the 5th orders interpolator for emc effectively
[17:56:49] <robin_sz> ummm
[17:56:53] <robin_sz> simple terms
[17:56:56] <A-L-P-H-A> well... my bigger thing right now... it healing. [too many cuts, cause my hands are dry from washing them all the time, oils from working on the lathe]
[17:57:30] <robin_sz> it looks ahead at whats coming up and startsslowing down at just the right time to handle the contour ahead
[17:58:13] <A-L-P-H-A> OH!!! Continuous feedrate?
[17:58:17] <robin_sz> g2002 does it not quite perfectly, but it pretty damn good
[17:58:36] <SteveStallings> same planner as EMC
[17:58:47] <robin_sz> not quite
[17:59:19] <SteveStallings> he added the moving average stuff, works well in some cases, not others
[17:59:33] <robin_sz> well, its smooth as silk for me
[17:59:55] <robin_sz> ive played with it a bit, not a lot though
[18:00:05] <SteveStallings> it should always be smooth, just not always accurate
[18:00:11] <robin_sz> just some C++ to read a file and send stuff down the USB
[18:00:29] <robin_sz> smooth is better than accurate
[18:01:12] <A-L-P-H-A> I took apart my lathe yesterday, looking specifically on how to adjust my backlash. There is _NO_ backlash adjustment anywhere. Damn Swiss. So, now I have 0.02mm to 0.03mm of backlash.
[18:01:33] <robin_sz> oh wow. my heart bleeds :)
[18:01:40] <robin_sz> thats NOTHING
[18:02:01] <robin_sz> .5mm is not uncommon
[18:02:02] <A-L-P-H-A> Well... I'd like to have 0.00 backlash. :P
[18:02:08] <A-L-P-H-A> WHAT?!?! 0.5mm?!?!
[18:02:13] <A-L-P-H-A> that's huge.
[18:02:20] <robin_sz> sure .. 10, 20 thou is pretty normal
[18:03:21] <robin_sz> for a manual lathe anyway
[18:03:27] <A-L-P-H-A> on my mill though, I am PISSED... one of the brackets I made shifts... [I need a make a brace] The backlash on ONE axis is 0.002"/0.0508mm And the other axis is I think 0.015"/.381mm. The first I can live with. The second I need to fix.
[18:04:17] <robin_sz> thats free-play, rather than bending?
[18:04:44] <A-L-P-H-A> freeplay.
[18:04:45] <A-L-P-H-A> not bending.
[18:04:54] <robin_sz> here, have some shims :)
[18:04:57] <A-L-P-H-A> the ballscrew I used is 1". The table is only 7x26"
[18:05:16] <A-L-P-H-A> let me see if I have the bracket picture
[18:05:17] <robin_sz> is the lathe CNC now?
[18:05:28] <A-L-P-H-A> yes. it's CNCed.
[18:05:36] <robin_sz> you could try a ballscrew
[18:05:49] <A-L-P-H-A> again: the ballscrew I used is 1". The table is only 7x26"
[18:05:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I converted it.
[18:06:08] <robin_sz> soory I thought you meant table on the mill
[18:06:21] <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Mill_Related/Mill%20Brackets/
[18:07:35] <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Mill_Related/Mill%20Brackets/DCP_0082.JPG the one on the bottom left corner... it was machined completely, and the top was put on the lathe, where there was cylinder machined out, and drilled and tapped
[18:07:55] <A-L-P-H-A> err... I need to find all my old photos.
[18:08:48] <robin_sz> hmmm .. those standoffs look .... springy
[18:09:28] <A-L-P-H-A> The standoff are bolted down from the bottom. they don't move.
[18:15:37] <A-L-P-H-A> can't find them.
[18:30:20] <A-L-P-H-A> oh ohwell... I give up looking for them now.
[18:43:25] <jepler> well I now notice in the g2002 documentation a command "point-to-point mode" which talks about the "commanded axis location", but doesn't say how you set the commanded axis location.
[19:42:28] <bobh> bobh is now known as rayh
[19:56:48] <paul_c> Yo Ray
[19:57:02] <rayh> Hi Paul. How you doing?
[19:57:20] <paul_c> First install of 4.10-beta went OK
[19:57:32] <rayh> Good.
[19:58:33] <paul_c> the Sherline GUI threw a tcl error on us...
[19:58:58] <rayh> What's it doing wrong?
[19:59:41] <paul_c> Pressed the Estop reset without the drivers powered up
[20:00:07] <paul_c> I saved the error log, so I should be able to mail it over.
[20:00:28] <rayh> Oh.
[20:01:18] <paul_c> lemme go and grab a copy.
[20:01:35] <rayh> It is supposed to come up with estop and machine on ready to run.
[20:04:56] <paul_c> full log:
[20:04:59] <paul_c> invalid command name ".top.right.up.offsets.bzero"
[20:04:59] <paul_c> invalid command name ".top.right.up.offsets.bzero"
[20:05:01] <paul_c> while executing
[20:05:01] <paul_c> "$coord.bzero configure -bg lightgray -state disabled"
[20:05:03] <paul_c> (procedure "toggleEstop" line 15)
[20:05:03] <paul_c> invoked from within
[20:05:03] <paul_c> "toggleEstop"
[20:05:04] <paul_c> invoked from within
[20:05:06] <paul_c> ".top.up.stopbutton invoke"
[20:05:08] <paul_c> ("uplevel" body line 1)
[20:05:10] <paul_c> invoked from within
[20:05:12] <paul_c> "uplevel #0 [list $w invoke]"
[20:05:14] <paul_c> (procedure "tk::ButtonUp" line 22)
[20:05:16] <paul_c> invoked from within
[20:05:18] <paul_c> "tk::ButtonUp .top.up.stopbutton"
[20:05:20] <paul_c> (command bound to event)
[20:05:52] <rayh> I saw that some time back with this. Let me look a bit.
[20:15:28] <rayh> Is this the same mini that is with 4.08
[20:16:27] <paul_c> yes
[20:26:05] <paul_c> If you have any tweeks, I'm about to build another CD with some updates.
[20:27:18] <rayh> Nothing other than a bit of confusion about why it doesn't find the estop button when it tries to changes it's color.
[20:27:54] <rayh> There was a change in the way that the catch command worked between 8.0 and 8.4
[20:28:39] <rayh> I worked around it with a if info exists
[20:28:58] <rayh> There is an error in proc toggleEstop. Give me a minute or two
[20:31:40] <paul_c> One change I made to the ini file.... PROGRAM_PREFIX = ~/gcode
[20:32:17] <rayh> Ah. Might need a space between { and [ on line 625 before emc_estop.
[20:32:21] <paul_c> copies of emc/programs/*ngc exist in ~/gcode
[20:33:27] <rayh> That will be great. Gets around the problem of who owns and can change those files.
[20:38:18] <rayh> Try changing all the {[ to { [. There are about 44 of them.
[20:38:34] <rayh> Then see if you can get mini to fail on estop.
[20:39:32] <paul_c> and a few ]}
[20:39:58] <rayh> Those don't seem to trip it up quite as bad but that would not hurt at all either.
[20:39:58] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... I'm almost complete my rotary axis. [worm and wormgear]. What I'm wondering is, could I use this in conjuction with my crossslide, to thread? What would I use for a gcode command? As I need to set the rotational speed + the crossslide feed.
[20:40:48] <rayh> 18 of those.
[20:41:15] <paul_c> what about {![ ?
[20:42:03] <rayh> A-L-P-H-A: It is simply a helical command. put the distance you want the thread to go and the number of full rotations of a needed.\
[20:42:41] <rayh> paul_c: that is a not in a if. They seen to work but that won't hurt any either.
[20:43:03] <A-L-P-H-A> rayh, cool, thanks.
[20:43:21] <paul_c> only two of them - Both in popinEditor
[20:43:22] <rayh> Least I could do.
[20:44:05] <rayh> a 1" 10tpi would be something like x1.0 a3600
[20:44:45] <rayh> It makes a mess when you have to rewind all 10 turns
[20:45:37] <paul_c> any other changes to suggest ?
[20:46:05] <rayh> Nope. I didn't get incremental jogs to work like I wanted them to.
[20:47:18] <paul_c> OK - I'll build a new CD and get one mailed out to you (once it's been tested).
[20:47:30] <rayh> Great.
[20:47:39] <rayh> How was Dee's dinner?
[20:47:55] <paul_c> filling.
[20:48:13] <rayh> How you doing so far?
[20:49:12] <paul_c> picked up a cold on the flight over, so been suffering with that for the last few days.
[20:49:33] <rayh> Yuck.
[20:51:33] <robin_sz> paul_c: you with les?
[20:51:41] <paul_c> had a few problems with the computer I'm using to build the CDs on - But bunged some more memory in, and it's OK now.
[20:52:00] <rayh> Good.
[20:53:15] <paul_c> robin_sz: Over on the west coast.
[20:53:38] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[20:53:46] <robin_sz> business or pleasure?
[20:53:55] <paul_c> holiday.
[20:54:01] <robin_sz> nice
[20:54:32] <paul_c> doing a bit of bird watching.
[20:54:59] <rayh> They wearing two piece bathing suits there yet?
[20:55:27] <paul_c> rubber one-piece
[20:55:52] <rayh> Surfer Girl.
[21:44:49] <ccjoe_> ccjoe_ is now known as ccjoe
[21:53:16] <paul_c> gotta check the docs and maybe make a few small changes...
[22:39:14] <paul_c> Afternoon ottos
[22:43:36] <ottos> Hi Paul...
[22:43:52] <ottos> How are things..?
[22:54:06] <ottos> Hi Paul . I was wondering if you would still need someone to test EMC2 on servo setup?
[22:56:46] <paul_c> Don't know what the status of servo & emc2 is at the moment.
[22:57:31] <ottos> ok...if needed it's there...
[23:00:24] <ottos> ok gens. time to go..later
[23:02:43] <gezr> hello ya'll
[23:03:08] <gezr> had to spend some time in the home depot getting wood to make a larger bead blast cabinet
[23:04:13] <gezr> anything going on today?
[23:05:31] <robin_sz> dancing girls
[23:06:13] <robin_sz> * robin_sz discovered something new today ...
[23:06:38] <robin_sz> ordinary user prompts end in $, root prompts end in #
[23:06:46] <robin_sz> in bash anyway
[23:06:50] <gezr> yep
[23:06:55] <gezr> as a reminder
[23:06:59] <robin_sz> never noticed that before
[23:07:35] <gezr> ive seen root prompts that are similiar to this
[23:07:52] <gezr> ***BEWARE ROOT***#
[23:10:23] <robin_sz> for people that just shouldnt be allowed near a root prompt?
[23:10:45] <gezr> yeah
[23:11:35] <robin_sz> might do a little rifle practice tonight
[23:16:42] <les> hello all
[23:17:26] <robin_sz> hey les
[23:17:39] <les> I closed lmwatts furniture today
[23:17:43] <les> it was 65f
[23:17:47] <les> and sunny
[23:17:50] <les> so
[23:17:53] <robin_sz> oh ..
[23:17:56] <les> long lunch
[23:17:56] <robin_sz> for the day!!
[23:18:09] <les> and 9 holes of golf
[23:18:17] <robin_sz> good call
[23:18:20] <les> thrn back to work
[23:18:35] <paul_c> * paul_c wanders off for a fag.
[23:18:43] <robin_sz> I thought you meant 'closed' as in 'closed' for a monent there
[23:18:53] <les> I didn't hear any complaints from my one employee
[23:19:03] <robin_sz> heh
[23:19:04] <les> he beat me too
[23:19:25] <les> course he has been playing for 50 years
[23:19:29] <robin_sz> he'll not go far up the corporate ladder ;)
[23:19:29] <les> me 6 months
[23:19:36] <les> haha
[23:19:54] <robin_sz> hows the turkey mating devices going?
[23:20:17] <les> trying desparately to improve throughput
[23:20:27] <les> all the times look good
[23:20:44] <les> 3 minutes to carve both sides
[23:20:54] <les> 5 minutes of sanding
[23:21:05] <les> 30 seconds of spraying
[23:21:07] <les> but
[23:21:16] <robin_sz> 20 an hour off the machine, less loading time, say 15
[23:21:36] <les> our throughput is a tiny fraction of what it should be
[23:22:01] <les> well 3 minutes=$4 value added
[23:22:16] <les> I think I have found the problem
[23:22:16] <robin_sz> 5 minutes sanding
[23:22:34] <les> the machine operator is also the spray painter
[23:22:42] <les> me
[23:22:45] <robin_sz> yep
[23:23:03] <les> and no chance of getting that kind of skilled labor
[23:23:21] <robin_sz> the bottleneck is the sander though surely, do you keep the sander full occupied with work?
[23:23:22] <les> operator in spray booth= cnc not running
[23:23:48] <les> yes sander is 30 hours a week
[23:23:59] <robin_sz> he doesnt run out of bits to sand?
[23:24:08] <les> so I am trying bigger batch sizes
[23:24:26] <les> the cnc can make em faster than he can sand
[23:25:01] <robin_sz> well, no matter what you do to the cnc and paint, you'll not make them any faster then
[23:25:09] <les> 3 min to carve including leisurely tool changes
[23:25:09] <robin_sz> unless yo get more sanders ;)
[23:25:12] <les> 5 to sand
[23:25:29] <les> I thought of another sander
[23:25:32] <robin_sz> looks like you need 2 sanders,
[23:25:37] <robin_sz> 1 to sand
[23:25:43] <les> perhaps
[23:25:45] <robin_sz> 1 to 1/2 sand, 1/2 paint
[23:25:51] <robin_sz> you to run the cnc
[23:25:59] <les> I think I need a spray painter
[23:26:20] <les> then production would be continuous rather than batch
[23:26:21] <les> but
[23:26:26] <les> no chance
[23:26:29] <les> not here
[23:26:37] <robin_sz> is it that hard a job?
[23:27:01] <les> no...if you are skilled at painting haha
[23:27:10] <les> here is my only chance...
[23:27:11] <robin_sz> you might be suprised
[23:27:17] <les> automate
[23:27:27] <robin_sz> many of the car bashing fraternity are a bit skilled
[23:27:35] <robin_sz> hmm
[23:27:40] <les> I do a 1.5 second shot around the edge
[23:27:46] <les> same for the top
[23:28:02] <les> an AB PLC could do that easily
[23:28:18] <les> (the part is rotating)
[23:28:47] <les> then I just need a body to take em off and put em on
[23:29:00] <les> and I can stay with the machine
[23:29:10] <robin_sz> hmmm
[23:29:24] <les> Another problem we are having is strange
[23:29:36] <robin_sz> want my hoenst opinion?
[23:29:51] <les> after about 4 hrs of this repetitive we get sleepy
[23:29:58] <les> yes want your opinion
[23:30:06] <robin_sz> the time you spend automating it (though mentally fun) might exceed the painting time on the entire job :)
[23:30:15] <les> yup
[23:30:20] <robin_sz> 20 seconds is not long per part
[23:30:29] <les> but customer wants to sell oem
[23:30:40] <les> 10,000+ a year?
[23:31:07] <robin_sz> in another business im involved in ...
[23:31:19] <robin_sz> we make 25,000 light dimmers a month
[23:31:35] <robin_sz> 10,000 is two weeks work ...
[23:31:43] <les> hmmm I designed the ge flat pack dimmer many years ago
[23:31:44] <robin_sz> its not that big a deal
[23:32:48] <robin_sz> now you know how I get through several hundred thousand surface mount resistors a month :)
[23:33:05] <les> mine was a single time constant diac/triac with the potentiometer ptf printed on the board
[23:33:16] <les> long time ago
[23:33:23] <les> leaded components
[23:33:26] <robin_sz> printrd on the board ... neat
[23:33:40] <les> yes saved a bunch of money
[23:34:03] <les> 1984
[23:34:08] <robin_sz> this is all smd, aprt from the big bits (coil, cap and switch/pot)
[23:34:30] <robin_sz> weve thought about printed resistors
[23:34:33] <les> yup
[23:34:55] <robin_sz> but smd is cheap ... and we have a zevatech board dtuffer and ir oven
[23:35:00] <les> hmm I can still print pots on surface mount boards...
[23:35:07] <les> how much is your pot?
[23:35:21] <robin_sz> cheap :)
[23:35:27] <les> $.20 ?
[23:35:46] <robin_sz> close,
[23:35:52] <robin_sz> 24c I think
[23:35:58] <robin_sz> thats with a switch
[23:36:39] <les> printed pot with switch might be $.10 or so
[23:36:44] <les> not sure really
[23:36:51] <les> it was so long ago
[23:36:56] <les> not up on prices
[23:36:57] <robin_sz> we used to wind the indcutors, but we get them assembled from the far east cheap enough
[23:37:14] <les> got ours from mexico
[23:37:26] <robin_sz> the worst job is riveting the triac to the heatsink
[23:37:30] <robin_sz> mind numbing
[23:37:56] <les> I used 2 oz copper on the board for the heat sink
[23:38:14] <les> not practical with surface mount i guess though
[23:38:31] <robin_sz> were prototyping a smd triac on 1" square of board
[23:38:50] <robin_sz> looks like it is OK to 250W
[23:39:35] <les> 250 is fine as long as someone doesn't try to use it with a tracklight or something
[23:39:42] <robin_sz> you have to be 100% certain on desing, because CE approval can cost 20K +, changing anything means a re-test
[23:40:01] <robin_sz> we do 250, 400 and 1kw
[23:40:07] <robin_sz> mostly 250
[23:40:19] <les> benn through a lot of UL and CSE
[23:40:30] <les> UL was just down the street
[23:40:46] <robin_sz> anyway, im only involved in a very minor way, I just am glad I dont have to do any of it!
[23:40:58] <les> ha
[23:41:01] <robin_sz> 25,000 a month is tedious
[23:41:12] <robin_sz> we did 40,000 one month ...
[23:41:21] <robin_sz> knee deep in the things
[23:41:22] <les> like my spray painting
[23:41:37] <les> I should not be doing that
[23:41:38] <robin_sz> but thats 1000 a month, less in fact
[23:41:48] <robin_sz> 800?
[23:43:01] <robin_sz> that *should* be just 4 hours max a month
[23:43:09] <les_away> dropped out there
[23:43:16] <robin_sz> but thats 1000 a month, less in fact
[23:43:19] <robin_sz> 800?
[23:43:22] <robin_sz> that *should* be just 4 hours max a month
[23:43:32] <robin_sz> if 20 seconds is true.
[23:43:51] <robin_sz> cure time?
[23:43:55] <les_away> hmm 4 hrs...
[23:44:11] <les_away> something is not adding up here...
[23:44:36] <robin_sz> whats the cure time on the thing?
[23:44:43] <robin_sz> from paint on, to dry in a box?
[23:44:50] <les_away> long... 4 to 6 hours
[23:44:58] <robin_sz> oh.
[23:45:12] <les_away> It's just dwell
[23:45:22] <les_away> doesn't cost anything
[23:45:30] <les_away> but affects throughput
[23:45:33] <robin_sz> yeah, but if it was short, you could batch them down a line
[23:45:58] <robin_sz> get the whole months worht sitting there, spend a day painting,
[23:46:05] <les_away> that is why I am thinking BIG batches
[23:46:18] <robin_sz> you'll need racking for 800 though
[23:46:37] <les_away> ha...just built another BIG rack today
[23:46:43] <robin_sz> any mileage in a simple conveyor .. heated tunnel oven?
[23:46:55] <les_away> would be nice
[23:47:01] <les_away> no room or time
[23:47:05] <robin_sz> shame.
[23:47:40] <robin_sz> I was sorta thinking an oven 8" sqaure and 40 foot long,
[23:47:47] <les_away> I am making an uograde list for the shop since I am coming into a bit of cash
[23:48:21] <les_away> I don't need much...so I put a lot of the profit back into the shop
[23:48:29] <les_away> so far...
[23:48:30] <robin_sz> 1 call every 6" .. thats 80 calls, 30 minutes worth of drying time at elevated temp
[23:48:45] <les_away> bigger tablesaw
[23:48:46] <robin_sz> * robin_sz shrugs
[23:48:52] <les_away> series 2 bp cnc
[23:48:52] <robin_sz> mmm .. saw.
[23:49:09] <robin_sz> for?
[23:49:11] <robin_sz> fun?
[23:49:23] <les_away> oh I used 20 meter long ir/ forced air for ptc
[23:49:32] <robin_sz> ptc?
[23:49:42] <anonimasu> hey
[23:49:53] <les_away> well still do engineering a bit
[23:49:59] <robin_sz> oh the heater
[23:50:01] <les_away> polymer thick film
[23:50:19] <les_away> and pot printed on pwbs
[23:50:26] <robin_sz> anyway, your painting time should not be a big part of your workload
[23:50:29] <les_away> hi anon
[23:50:46] <robin_sz> I suspect the loading, unloading, getting set up adds a lot
[23:50:46] <anonimasu> I am just in for a sec going to head for bed soon
[23:50:55] <les_away> it isn't...I think it's the drying dwell
[23:51:05] <les_away> hence big batches?
[23:51:07] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:51:20] <les_away> sounds like a plan
[23:51:30] <les_away> what time is it for you anon?
[23:51:51] <anonimasu> 00:54
[23:52:10] <paul_c> * paul_c makes it 15:54
[23:52:18] <les_away> oh late!
[23:52:20] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:52:23] <les_away> ha hey paul
[23:52:23] <robin_sz> so, 5 mins per sand, is 12 calls an hour. 7 hours is 84 calls, thats in thery, 30 minutes painting time
[23:52:40] <anonimasu> I finally found a source for alu
[23:52:44] <les_away> right
[23:52:52] <anonimasu> talked to the right person at work that we buy alu from..
[23:52:54] <robin_sz> do em et the end of the day, let em sit in a dust-free shop overnight
[23:53:11] <les_away> hmm yes
[23:53:13] <les_away> anon: AL is easy to get here
[23:53:35] <anonimasu> les_away: it's hard here unless you buy whole lengths..
[23:53:41] <anonimasu> and I have no use for 5m of al
[23:53:51] <anonimasu> or well
[23:54:01] <anonimasu> use but it's quite hefty to buy 5 meters..
[23:54:02] <robin_sz> I still think the real bottleneck is yur sander. if he is fully occupied then , sorting out the batching of painting might make your day easier, but you wont make any more
[23:54:20] <les_away> hmmm
[23:54:24] <anonimasu> neat they can proide stainless aswell..
[23:54:33] <anonimasu> talked to the right guy at the steel supplier at work..
[23:55:00] <anonimasu> about 9$ per kg..
[23:55:02] <les_away> here we have places like metals supermarket...just drive in and pick your alloy
[23:55:15] <anonimasu> 6063
[23:55:30] <anonimasu> um wrong..
[23:55:32] <anonimasu> that was profiles..
[23:55:52] <robin_sz> les_away: what it will do is make your life easier, allow you to keep that cnc on full throttle all day (and thats the thing they are really paying for) and when you have lots stacked up, get a 2nd sander
[23:56:01] <les_away> robin: I need to think on this...we should be able to do 3 times what we are getting through
[23:56:12] <robin_sz> how many do you churn out?
[23:56:16] <anonimasu> well about 9..
[23:56:20] <anonimasu> err 9$ per kg..
[23:56:23] <anonimasu> is that a ok price?
[23:56:35] <les_away> 108 a day this week
[23:56:58] <anonimasu> les_away: I wish that was possible here
[23:57:11] <les_away> $9/kg is ok for 6063
[23:57:17] <les_away> a little high
[23:57:25] <robin_sz> well, thats 7 hours work yeah?
[23:57:27] <les_away> but ok for small quantities
[23:57:51] <anonimasu> les_away: I have more rebate on that.. aswell
[23:57:55] <anonimasu> but I dont know the %
[23:58:02] <les_away> 108 a day is:
[23:58:04] <anonimasu> les_away: I need like a couple of meters :)
[23:58:11] <les_away> 240 min cnc
[23:58:16] <robin_sz> 7 x 60 = 350 minutes, 350/108 ~ 3minutes a piece
[23:58:44] <anonimasu> the company I looked at earlier wanted like $15 per kg..
[23:58:46] <anonimasu> :D
[23:58:50] <les_away> wow
[23:58:56] <robin_sz> so your sander must be doing them at 3minutes
[23:58:58] <anonimasu> that's the going hobby price..
[23:59:08] <anonimasu> around that..
[23:59:33] <les_away> The sander got much faster when I fixed the gcode with a tangiential entry
[23:59:40] <robin_sz> oh yeah :)
[23:59:43] <les_away> I had better time him again
[23:59:57] <robin_sz> so ... you should do 500 a week,