#emc | Logs for 2004-12-04

[00:19:36] <robin_sz> guten abend meine freunden!
[00:20:13] <robin_sz> * robin_sz bounces up and down
[00:21:22] <paul_c> * paul_c observes a seismic event occur just outside Brum...
[00:32:34] <robin_sz> you saying I'm fat?
[00:34:29] <paul_c> Now where did I say or imply that ;-/
[00:36:07] <robin_sz> * robin_sz bounces again just to check ...
[00:36:35] <robin_sz> had fun today, ran the first few bits through the pwder oven
[00:37:11] <robin_sz> bit pongy, but most of that was the new fibreglass wool I put in burning off a bit
[00:39:44] <robin_sz> its got 48 500w halogen bulbs on half voltage, dunno how many kilowatts that is in reallity, but it gets well hot thats for sure
[00:45:36] <paul_c> enough for a tan ?
[00:53:05] <robin_sz> well, enough to cook your lunch with I reckon
[20:55:33] <paul_c> * paul_c prods jmkasunich to see if he is awake...
[20:57:48] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is back
[20:58:43] <paul_c> Hi Alex
[20:58:56] <paul_c> What did I miss ?
[20:59:10] <alex_joni> not much
[20:59:16] <alex_joni> me getting VERY angry
[20:59:19] <alex_joni> on M$ stuff...
[20:59:55] <alex_joni> I'm afraid I didn't succeed yet in finding the diff. between those 2 lists
[20:59:59] <alex_joni> but I'm working on it
[21:02:19] <paul_c> Did you get the versioned list OK ?
[21:03:50] <alex_joni> I think so...
[21:03:55] <alex_joni> versions are in there ;)
[21:04:09] <paul_c> You have the latest then.
[21:04:26] <alex_joni> hope the right ones ;)
[21:04:42] <alex_joni> anyway.. it's beyond bash scripting now... I need a .c program
[21:04:46] <alex_joni> to check for the versions
[21:05:08] <paul_c> not perl or python then...
[21:05:17] <alex_joni> don't know either...
[21:06:01] <alex_joni> I'll do it like this...
[21:06:16] <alex_joni> read the file once, and make a list with packages and versions
[21:06:36] <alex_joni> reread the file and check all Requires: for the programs
[21:07:02] <alex_joni> it will echo if the dependency is not satisfyable (either one is missing, or version not ok)
[21:10:18] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ is wonders why Alex's german is better than mine :-)
[21:10:43] <alex_joni> lol
[21:10:55] <alex_joni> paul: are you sure the versions are right?
[21:10:58] <paul_c> alex_joni: Did you see the attempt at i18n support ?
[21:11:20] <alex_joni> emc?
[21:11:25] <alex_joni> or what i18n?
[21:11:43] <paul_c> spell checking & man man pages
[21:13:04] <alex_joni> is it on cvs?
[21:13:19] <paul_c> in the comps.xml
[21:14:33] <alex_joni> i am seeing it now
[21:15:57] <paul_c> English, French, German, & Spanish...
[21:19:30] <alex_joni> lsb & kde
[21:19:44] <paul_c> yup
[21:20:20] <alex_joni> nice
[21:20:30] <paul_c> Do you think we should add 'mericun, or default to English for them too ?
[21:20:43] <alex_joni> hmmmm
[21:20:59] <paul_c> There is a limit on disk space.
[21:21:05] <alex_joni> I like default
[21:21:10] <paul_c> ;))
[21:21:23] <alex_joni> and I don't think it's that crucial
[21:21:45] <alex_joni> better include anything else
[21:23:56] <alex_joni> any ideea when I can take a peek at it?
[21:25:28] <paul_c> As soon as I know if any deps are missing, I'll build a new disk.
[21:26:26] <alex_joni> ok ;)
[21:28:15] <paul_c> * paul_c works on the emc package...
[21:31:17] <jmkasunich> us 'murricans can read the King's english OK
[21:31:28] <alex_joni> jmk: lol
[21:31:36] <paul_c> Queen's English now.
[21:31:39] <alex_joni> it's the queens
[21:32:04] <jmkasunich> we can read that too... we're tri-lingual!
[21:32:14] <alex_joni> you are gifted
[21:32:21] <alex_joni> and blessed :P
[21:33:10] <jmkasunich> actually, it's rather humbling to see how well folks who's first language is not a flavor of english do here and on the lists
[21:35:08] <paul_c> jmkasunich: A dilemma for you...
[21:36:04] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich listens
[21:36:40] <paul_c> This 2.6.9 adaptation I've been working on...
[21:37:17] <paul_c> Needs to be in SF somewhere really.
[21:37:29] <jmkasunich> is that 1 or 2?
[21:37:53] <jmkasunich> or both?
[21:38:04] <paul_c> libnml, configure, and some of the make from 2
[21:38:12] <jmkasunich> ok...
[21:38:24] <paul_c> emc src, from 1 (after some hackery)
[21:38:40] <paul_c> and a new run script.
[21:38:53] <jmkasunich> the differences are that pronounced?
[21:39:15] <jmkasunich> (bash is bash, isn't it - I wouldn't have expected the scripts to break)
[21:39:45] <paul_c> To my way of thinking, it would be easier to do a branch in the emc2 tree rather than emc[1]
[21:40:26] <jmkasunich> agreed.... and besides "new development" is focused on 2, and 2.6 is certainly new
[21:41:49] <jmkasunich> so what is the dilemma?
[21:42:24] <paul_c> apart from the make files, there isn't that much "new" stuff with the 2.6 version
[21:43:50] <paul_c> The dilemma is, if it goes in the emc2 tree, it totally ignores rtapi & hal
[21:44:26] <jmkasunich> IOW, the work needed to make rtapi and hal work under 2.6 hasn't been done yet (or even started)
[21:44:58] <paul_c> The groundwork for rtapi & hal is there
[21:45:29] <paul_c> Most of the work is in the Make.
[21:45:50] <jmkasunich> ok, then how are they being "ignored"?
[21:46:23] <paul_c> the 2.6.9 code I have running here doesn't use rtapi or hal
[21:46:38] <jmkasunich> but it's still "emc2"?
[21:46:59] <paul_c> emc1.28
[21:47:27] <jmkasunich> I think I'm beginning to understand
[21:47:47] <jmkasunich> you have emc1 less rcslib plus libnml working under 2.6
[21:47:54] <paul_c> For the most part, it is just a re-hash of the old emc code
[21:48:07] <jmkasunich> to put that into SF under emc1 would be messy
[21:48:25] <paul_c> messy, boardering on difficult.
[21:48:51] <paul_c> Although....
[21:49:04] <jmkasunich> but putting it into emc2 would be "incomplete", since the rtapi and hal parts aren't converted yet
[21:49:14] <paul_c> If rcslib were to be built as a standalone lib, it could work.
[21:49:46] <jmkasunich> ultimately it is up to you, you're doing the work
[21:50:07] <jmkasunich> I'm sure there are folks who would like rcslib and thus a fairly stock emc1 to work under 2.6
[21:50:16] <jmkasunich> as you know, that isn't important to me
[21:50:37] <jmkasunich> but I'm not the one doing the work
[21:50:53] <paul_c> libnml works just fine (apart from one tiny little warning being reported..)
[21:51:32] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is back to wondering what the dilemma is... deciding where to put your work?
[21:51:40] <paul_c> yes
[21:52:06] <jmkasunich> seems like two independent questions:
[21:52:15] <jmkasunich> 1) should it be a branch under emc2?
[21:52:22] <jmkasunich> answer yes, of course
[21:52:46] <jmkasunich> just cause that branch won't work yet (as normal emc2, w/rtapi and hal) doesn't mean we won't get there eventually
[21:52:54] <jmkasunich> and 2.6 support is a requirement for emc2
[21:53:07] <jmkasunich> question 2) should you release it under emc1 as well?
[21:53:29] <jmkasunich> answer - depends on how much work would be involved to make it look just like (or similar to) the older emc1
[21:53:47] <paul_c> I'm not going to try and run two identical trees in parallel.
[21:53:54] <jmkasunich> I don't think a branch under emc1 that uses libnml instead of rcslib would be a good idea
[21:54:18] <jmkasunich> agreed that two trees is not good
[21:54:42] <paul_c> the only reason I used libnml over rcslib was purely convienence on my part.
[21:55:01] <jmkasunich> understandable
[21:55:45] <jmkasunich> question: if you committed the 2.6 compatible version of libnml to emc2 trunk, would it break anything for 2.4 or earlier folks?
[21:55:58] <paul_c> likewise, the only reason for using emc(1) source was for speed.
[21:57:41] <paul_c> Only two source files from libnml are essential for realtime code regardless of kernel version.
[21:58:03] <paul_c> posemath.c & sincos.c
[21:58:26] <jmkasunich> well if your goal is to get your 2.6 work into SF, just go ahead a commit it to the main trunk of emc2
[21:58:46] <paul_c> err... On a branch
[21:59:03] <paul_c> It would break the trunk big time.
[21:59:30] <jmkasunich> I just asked you if it would break the trunk, and got a cryptic answer...
[22:00:09] <paul_c> misread your question..
[22:00:22] <jmkasunich> oh
[22:00:54] <paul_c> a 2.6 ready version of libnml woill not break anything for earlier kernels.
[22:01:11] <jmkasunich> I was under the impression that ./configure would detect 2.6, and "activate" your changes (ifdefs, or whatever), and otherwise the result would be the same as the trunk
[22:01:33] <paul_c> Most of the grunt is in the make files.
[22:02:10] <jmkasunich> dealing with the change from foo.o to foo.somethingelse for kernel modules?
[22:02:19] <jmkasunich> .ko, I think?
[22:02:55] <paul_c> module extension is the most significant change
[22:03:33] <jmkasunich> if the 2.6 ready version of libnml doesn't break things for other folks, I say commit it to the trunk
[22:04:16] <jmkasunich> then if a branch is needed to make other parts "2.6 ready", take the branch after the libnml commits
[22:04:33] <paul_c> resurrect the 2.6 fork, & merge the common parts...
[22:04:49] <jmkasunich> yeah
[22:05:13] <jmkasunich> (you know how to handle these things better than I anyway... why are you asking me?)
[22:05:26] <jmkasunich> just wanted to talk it over?
[22:05:34] <paul_c> kinda
[22:06:04] <jmkasunich> I know how that goes... nothing better to get my thoughts in order than to try to explain them to someone else ;-)
[22:06:59] <paul_c> also, didn't want to commit a load on non-hal/rtapi stuff and let you think the worst.
[22:07:12] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[22:07:36] <jmkasunich> sooner or later I need to get my head around 2.6
[22:08:01] <jmkasunich> how does one go about putting together a 2.6 system?
[22:08:07] <alex_joni> ditto
[22:08:16] <alex_joni> jmk: he does like me
[22:08:18] <jmkasunich> I should have one on the compile farm
[22:08:22] <paul_c> As long as you keep away from sysfs and kobjects, it is all in the make files.
[22:08:25] <alex_joni> waits for bdi3
[22:09:03] <jmkasunich> bdi3 is gonna be 2.6 based?
[22:09:25] <paul_c> from the ground up.
[22:09:53] <jmkasunich> is that the answer to "how does one" or "bdi3 is gonna"?
[22:10:14] <alex_joni> bdi3 is gonna
[22:10:15] <jmkasunich> (IRC can be frustrating at times)
[22:10:24] <jmkasunich> cool
[22:10:35] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich pre-orders a CD from Paul
[22:10:38] <paul_c> bdi-3 is 2.6 based from the ground up.
[22:10:53] <paul_c> * paul_c bills jmkasunich $1000
[22:11:03] <paul_c> (no purchase tax)
[22:11:41] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich cancels order
[22:12:18] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich orders the CD from Ray instead
[22:12:22] <alex_joni> lol
[22:12:26] <paul_c> * paul_c files a writ in the Court of Utah
[22:12:45] <alex_joni> paul_c: how about shipping costs?
[22:12:54] <paul_c> citing breach of contract
[22:13:14] <paul_c> shipping would have been free ;)
[22:13:21] <jmkasunich> it's $1.98 for the CD, $998.02 for shipping (personal delivery and installation by Paul)
[22:13:59] <alex_joni> how bout support?
[22:14:06] <paul_c> ug... Not flying to Detriot again..
[22:14:30] <alex_joni> how bout romania?
[22:14:58] <paul_c> can't be any worse than the rust belt.
[22:15:20] <jmkasunich> I resemble that remark
[22:15:56] <paul_c> jmkasunich: you must admit, Detriot is a right pit..
[22:16:12] <jmkasunich> yes - it makes Cleveland look positively wonderfull
[22:16:13] <Timbo> does anybody mind if i ask a couple of newbie questions?
[22:16:21] <alex_joni> * alex_joni didn' quite get that
[22:16:21] <jmkasunich> go ahead
[22:16:33] <Timbo> how does cnc deal with hysterisis?
[22:16:48] <alex_joni> you mean backlash?
[22:17:00] <paul_c> or deadband ?
[22:17:24] <Timbo> i mean when you're reversing the direction of a cut, you need to spin the handle a little until the screw kicks in
[22:17:40] <alex_joni> backlash
[22:17:44] <paul_c> backlash is the technical term
[22:17:50] <Timbo> oops ok
[22:17:52] <alex_joni> there is a parameter in emc.ini
[22:18:12] <alex_joni> from which you can define the size of your backlash
[22:18:17] <Timbo> ah ok, that makes sense
[22:18:34] <paul_c> but you still need to minimise backlash in the mechanics of the mill
[22:18:39] <Timbo> i've toying with the idea of converting an old manual mill i have
[22:18:55] <Timbo> it has rather a large backlash on the x and y
[22:19:04] <paul_c> How old, and what type ?
[22:19:13] <Timbo> about 0.25mm on the handle
[22:19:35] <Timbo> not sure tbh, it's got BCA embossed on one side
[22:19:44] <Timbo> and "R. Godfrey" on the other
[22:19:48] <Timbo> it's very small
[22:19:49] <paul_c> BCA jig borer ?
[22:20:08] <Timbo> quite possibly, i know very little about this sort of thing
[22:20:22] <paul_c> * paul_c offers Timbo a fiver & a bottle of single malt
[22:20:28] <Timbo> haha
[22:20:37] <Timbo> already got a glenlivet on the shelf thanks
[22:20:47] <Timbo> 12 year old :)
[22:21:40] <Timbo> just looking at pictures on the net
[22:21:52] <Timbo> it is indeed a BCA jig borer :)
[22:22:42] <paul_c> http://www.anglo-swiss-tools.co.uk/Resources/BCA.jpg
[22:23:16] <Timbo> wooo neat
[22:23:51] <paul_c> With a rotary table ?
[22:24:37] <Timbo> yup
[22:24:58] <paul_c> http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/cat_leaf.php?id=41 (better shot)
[22:25:14] <Timbo> yeah that's the one i was looking at
[22:25:22] <Timbo> it is exactly that model afaics
[22:25:44] <Timbo> not in as good condition though
[22:26:05] <Timbo> the table has cuts in it from whatever moron operated it in its previous life
[22:26:07] <paul_c> It can be reconditioned
[22:26:45] <paul_c> There is a company that specialises in BCA reconditioning
[22:27:04] <Timbo> oh it's perfectly useable
[22:27:11] <Timbo> just looks a bit tired
[22:27:32] <paul_c> Seems a shame to convert it to CNC
[22:27:46] <Timbo> why's that?
[22:28:15] <paul_c> current value, about �600-1000
[22:28:32] <paul_c> after conversion, �200-300
[22:29:02] <Timbo> meh, it's not going any where
[22:29:23] <Timbo> i would probably use it more if it were CNC
[22:30:20] <paul_c> I'd even be tempted to trade a Sherline for it...
[22:30:31] <alex_joni> why is it cheaper after conversion?
[22:30:54] <Timbo> heh
[22:31:22] <paul_c> just look at the number of second hand CNC machines on the market
[22:31:55] <paul_c> the old Bridgeport BOSS machines are being thrown away as boat anchors
[22:31:56] <Timbo> where is said market btw?
[22:32:36] <paul_c> head over to Manchester/Birmingham
[22:32:45] <Timbo> that was another angle i was looking at, but i've found it hard to come across small second hand CNC
[22:33:38] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is back in 5 mins
[22:34:16] <paul_c> benchtop CNC just doesn't exist outside hobby & schools
[22:34:55] <paul_c> for example, my CNC mill is a baby
[22:35:06] <jmkasunich> how big?
[22:35:08] <paul_c> but weighs in at 1.5 tonnes
[22:35:44] <Timbo> yeah
[22:35:50] <Timbo> i've been skulking on ebay
[22:36:03] <Timbo> and you occasionally see denford college kit popping up
[22:36:07] <jmkasunich> hi ray
[22:36:55] <paul_c> I 'spose it really depends on how much you want to sink into a cnc project.
[22:37:23] <Timbo> not much
[22:37:28] <Timbo> what can i say, i'm scottish :)
[22:37:42] <paul_c> wasn't going to say a word
[22:37:45] <Timbo> :)
[22:38:31] <paul_c> Glasgow, or Edinboro' ?
[22:38:38] <Timbo> edinburgh
[22:38:55] <paul_c> Just up the A1 a bit from me then.
[22:39:04] <Timbo> newcastle?
[22:39:10] <paul_c> <spit>
[22:39:27] <Timbo> norw..
[22:39:28] <paul_c> Narfalk
[22:39:39] <Timbo> ah right
[22:39:49] <jmkasunich> what is it with you UK folks and regional rivalries anyway?
[22:40:12] <paul_c> You had your North/South disputes
[22:40:50] <paul_c> Timbo: You listen to B. Connolly ?
[22:41:02] <Timbo> uh huh
[22:41:16] <jmkasunich> is rayh just lurking....
[22:41:36] <paul_c> and the Bovril scetch
[22:42:12] <Timbo> funny man :)
[22:42:16] <paul_c> .... or was that Carrot....
[22:42:25] <Timbo> don't remember tbh
[22:42:30] <rayh> Hi John
[22:42:36] <jmkasunich> howdy
[22:42:39] <paul_c> But you know of it ?
[22:42:46] <jmkasunich> you know anthing about linear motors ray?
[22:42:48] <Timbo> yeah, does ring a bell
[22:43:01] <alex_joni> hey ray
[22:43:07] <paul_c> digression over...
[22:43:10] <rayh> Hi alex.
[22:43:19] <rayh> Lots of snow now.
[22:43:27] <jmkasunich> yuck
[22:43:33] <paul_c> bugger that...
[22:43:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is fileld with envy
[22:43:48] <jmkasunich> alex likes snow?
[22:43:49] <rayh> jmkasunich: only that they move back and forth rather than around.
[22:44:00] <paul_c> Timbo: Re BCA
[22:44:11] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich got some goodies from the dumpster
[22:44:15] <rayh> Till used linear motors on his BIG hexapod.
[22:44:18] <alex_joni> jmk: lots of it
[22:44:19] <jmkasunich> two anorad linear motors
[22:44:28] <paul_c> measure the space you have around the leadscrews & nuts
[22:44:30] <rayh> What's the stroke.
[22:44:44] <jmkasunich> one about 36", one about 24"
[22:44:54] <jmkasunich> (not here at home yet, still stashed at work)
[22:45:12] <rayh> Ho! Wah! (a coloquial expression for envy)
[22:45:16] <jmkasunich> one has a glass scale that could probably be demounted and used for a dro or something
[22:45:40] <jmkasunich> the other has a "renishaw" thing that looks like a gold tape, can't be demounted
[22:45:53] <jmkasunich> don't have drives for either one, just the motor/rail/scale combo
[22:46:05] <rayh> Sony used a tape with a magnetic setup.
[22:46:13] <jmkasunich> also found a heidenham (sp?) glass scale about 4' long
[22:46:57] <rayh> Fam has been out playing on the frozen lake.
[22:47:00] <jmkasunich> appears to be new old stock - spotless, but the transulcent red rubbery stuff that's supposet to keep dirt out is crumbling
[22:47:23] <rayh> About six months of the year we can walk on water just like the big folk.
[22:47:28] <jmkasunich> lol
[22:47:33] <alex_joni> lol
[22:47:47] <jmkasunich> is the "Ho Wa" an indication that you could use it? or just plain ole envy?
[22:48:06] <rayh> Just plain old envy.
[22:48:13] <Timbo> paul_c: i'm not entirely sure what you mean...
[22:48:20] <rayh> Not a clue how you run a linear motor.
[22:48:51] <jmkasunich> looks to be a three phase winding, I bet it's like an AC brushless servo
[22:49:02] <alex_joni> depends on the linear motor
[22:49:18] <rayh> paul_c: slamr.o is no good without the installer. I downloaded 2.4.27 headers...
[22:49:41] <rayh> alex_joni: Are there differences like with DC and AC?
[22:50:19] <alex_joni> I think so.. I ain't any experience
[22:50:31] <rayh> Me either.
[22:50:31] <alex_joni> I've seen a cool one though
[22:50:37] <alex_joni> it was a XY type
[22:50:42] <alex_joni> just a baseplate
[22:50:46] <alex_joni> with a gismo on it
[22:50:56] <alex_joni> and that gismo could be moved in any direction
[22:51:12] <paul_c> Timbo: Googling for data
[22:51:15] <rayh> I saw a Mittsubish that was similar.
[22:51:28] <alex_joni> this was a hywin, if my memory serves me right
[22:52:16] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich leaves for dinner - stepson's 21st birthday!
[22:52:28] <alex_joni> jmk: HIWIN linear motors of series LMS and LMC are 3-phase synchronous motors
[22:52:35] <rayh> See ye.
[22:52:48] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: I'll investigate more when I bring them home
[22:53:05] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk_away
[22:53:06] <alex_joni> there are some linear stages with steppers inside too
[22:53:11] <alex_joni> byee
[22:53:31] <alex_joni> ray: http://www.hiwin.de/internet_uk/planar_motoren/lmsp.htm
[22:53:32] <jmk_away> these are definitely linear motors, move freely without cogging when de-energized
[22:54:45] <alex_joni> up to 1m/sec
[22:56:41] <rayh> Wow. Those are some stats.
[22:57:01] <alex_joni> how about those accuracies?
[22:57:47] <rayh> * rayh begins to dream about a machine.
[22:58:34] <alex_joni> yeah...
[22:58:44] <alex_joni> paul: short question
[23:00:28] <rayh> with the LMDX driver you can give it step and direction commands.
[23:00:30] <paul_c> Timbo: http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PARTPG=NNSRAR2&PMPXNO=1878226
[23:00:40] <alex_joni> I saw that
[23:00:45] <alex_joni> nice
[23:00:59] <paul_c> http://www.thomsonindustries.com/PDFs/Catalogs_and_Brochures/BallScrews_and_BallSplines.pdf
[23:00:59] <alex_joni> paul_c: about that board
[23:01:06] <paul_c> shoot
[23:01:24] <alex_joni> the 82C55 lets you decide which pin is input or output
[23:01:26] <alex_joni> right?
[23:01:43] <paul_c> On a port by port basis
[23:01:49] <alex_joni> yeah
[23:01:58] <paul_c> Port C can be split though
[23:02:02] <alex_joni> but if I put the optocoupling on the board
[23:02:10] <alex_joni> it's pretty much fixed
[23:02:23] <alex_joni> what if the opto's are on a breakout board?
[23:02:33] <alex_joni> depending on what you need
[23:03:26] <paul_c> optocouplers on a seperate board is no prob - Can breadboard relay drivers, etc..
[23:03:35] <alex_joni> yeah
[23:03:43] <alex_joni> it saves space on thePC104 too
[23:03:58] <paul_c> true
[23:04:14] <alex_joni> I'll put a IDE connector on the PC104
[23:04:17] <alex_joni> is that ok?
[23:04:31] <alex_joni> for all the IO connections
[23:04:40] <alex_joni> and something for the encoders
[23:04:48] <alex_joni> with optocoupling on board
[23:04:54] <alex_joni> because those are fixed
[23:05:20] <paul_c> the encoders would want RS485 drivers wouldn't they ?
[23:05:47] <alex_joni> the encoders get connected to the LS7266
[23:05:58] <alex_joni> LS7266's
[23:06:39] <paul_c> yes.... However, may encoders use a differential signal
[23:07:08] <alex_joni> you mean not standard A/B quadrature?
[23:07:45] <alex_joni> I used only quadrature ones... till now
[23:08:14] <paul_c> * paul_c greps for some specs
[23:23:56] <Timbo> paul_c: that was my other newbie question... what's a ball screw?
[23:24:22] <paul_c> Didya follow those two links ?
[23:24:34] <Timbo> yup
[23:24:51] <Timbo> i need to read more of them then? :)
[23:25:36] <paul_c> basically, low friction, low backlash feedscrew
[23:26:32] <Timbo> ...ok, that's what i figured, but no website really spelled it out
[23:26:40] <paul_c> Do you have a decent bearing supplier up your way ?
[23:28:49] <Timbo> there are a couple of engineering places yeah
[23:29:06] <Timbo> hendersons and... i forget the name
[23:29:53] <Timbo> $28 seems pretty inexpensive
[23:30:52] <paul_c> Go and ask them about the Thompson Saginaw 5/8" rolled ball screws
[23:31:29] <rayh> * rayh got a family committment.
[23:31:41] <Timbo> okey dokey
[23:31:50] <Timbo> thanks btw
[23:32:34] <Timbo> probably have to wait til next weekend though
[23:32:38] <Timbo> i have to work tomorrow
[23:34:58] <paul_c> http://www.mcmaster.com/ - Go to page 976
[23:36:10] <alex_joni> paul: about those version numbers
[23:36:15] <alex_joni> are you sure they are ok?
[23:36:30] <paul_c> errors ?
[23:36:39] <alex_joni> wondering...
[23:36:40] <Timbo> hmm handy
[23:36:58] <alex_joni> passwd is version 1
[23:37:11] <alex_joni> pax, pciutils too
[23:38:42] <paul_c> Hmm... and pciutils-dev, the Requires is truncated..
[23:39:34] <A-L-P-H-A> hey, what do you guys use to design your GCode? or do you guys do it all by hand?
[23:39:44] <alex_joni> I tried SheetCAM
[23:40:00] <alex_joni> and Ace
[23:40:03] <alex_joni> and Eagle
[23:40:04] <A-L-P-H-A> sheetcam isn't free or won't be... and isn't it only 2d?
[23:40:05] <paul_c> * paul_c uses pen'n'paper
[23:40:15] <A-L-P-H-A> Eagle? as it Eagle layout editor?
[23:40:19] <alex_joni> it's only 2D.. but it's free for now
[23:40:26] <alex_joni> yea, for PCB-s
[23:40:43] <alex_joni> although cradek should have more experience on this
[23:40:55] <A-L-P-H-A> eagle is free... I know and use that... but only to print my PCBs onto laser paper, and iron onto copper clad boards, and etch.
[23:40:58] <A-L-P-H-A> manual drilling.
[23:41:01] <alex_joni> I tried DeskCam (not free either)
[23:41:09] <alex_joni> ace is free
[23:41:17] <alex_joni> but it only converts from dxf
[23:41:27] <paul_c> * paul_c has played with Synergy
[23:41:28] <A-L-P-H-A> ace is free, and aweful. :) But does the job... albeit very slowly. :)
[23:41:48] <A-L-P-H-A> I've played with mastercam... and it's fairly easy to use... if you watch someone else do it a couple of times.
[23:42:06] <A-L-P-H-A> bobcam I found _aweful_
[23:42:14] <paul_c> Qcad (or Qcam)...
[23:43:25] <Timbo> i really like qcad's interface
[23:43:48] <Timbo> even if the widget set makes it look like 1990
[23:44:06] <paul_c> Timbo: Are you running Linux yet ?
[23:44:15] <Timbo> Linux borboletta 2.4.24 #1 Fri Jan 30 15:57:36 GMT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
[23:44:31] <cradek> yeah I use Eagle to make pcbs
[23:44:44] <cradek> eagle and EMC, that is
[23:44:47] <Timbo> my job (and degree) is in computers
[23:45:02] <Timbo> i've been running linux for many years now
[23:46:30] <cradek> tonight jepler and I are announcing our public beta of AXIS
[23:46:36] <cradek> I sent email to both lists
[23:46:47] <cradek> there is also a webpage at http://axis.unpy.net
[23:49:03] <paul_c> alex_joni: New check.list without truncated version numbers
[23:49:51] <paul_c> But.... (pax for example) shows as 1:1.5-15
[23:50:01] <alex_joni> nice ;)
[23:50:27] <paul_c> ignore anything before the colon, so version would be 1.5-15
[23:50:48] <alex_joni> ok
[23:51:03] <alex_joni> did you intentionally leave out empty Provides: lines?
[23:52:13] <paul_c> no... but where Provides is missing, assume the name replaces it.
[23:52:23] <alex_joni> ok
[23:52:44] <paul_c> can regenerate if required.
[23:52:56] <alex_joni> neah.. let me code for a while
[23:53:05] <alex_joni> will tell you if it's neccessary
[23:54:12] <paul_c> rebuilding anyway
[23:58:41] <robin_sz> evening ...
[23:59:00] <alex_joni> meep?
[23:59:11] <robin_sz> ahh, indeed so
[23:59:20] <robin_sz> ar we having fun?