#emc | Logs for 2004-11-21

[07:19:44] <paul_c> * paul_c is back
[07:38:16] <robin_sz> handy hint: if you have kids, make sure the reset button on all your machines is out of reach
[07:40:50] <paul_c> http://www.sightsystems.co.uk/?PageID=74
[07:42:03] <robin_sz> nice ...
[07:42:06] <robin_sz> but no prices
[07:50:02] <robin_sz> the rugged 4u box is very kewl though .. wonderif its under 200 notes?
[07:54:34] <paul_c> * paul_c recalls something around 180 smackers
[08:00:29] <robin_sz> not bad I guess
[08:08:00] <paul_c> picnet makes a special appearance for one night only.
[08:08:45] <robin_sz> * robin_sz doubts it
[09:12:14] <alex_joni> hello...
[09:12:21] <Imperator_> Hi Alex
[09:12:24] <alex_joni> anybody around?
[09:12:28] <alex_joni> hey martin...
[09:12:30] <Imperator_> No
[09:12:35] <alex_joni> how's the homing?
[09:12:40] <Imperator_> check this
[09:12:43] <Imperator_> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=25280&item=3853151772&rd=1
[09:13:21] <Imperator_> someone is selling EMC cd's on ebay with a terrible foto of a "example machine "
[09:15:13] <alex_joni> well.. they are allowed to do that
[09:15:15] <paul_c> Note the number of beer bottles kicking around
[09:15:25] <Imperator_> :-)
[09:15:40] <Imperator_> thats why the machine look this way
[09:16:39] <alex_joni> lol...
[09:16:41] <alex_joni> hey paul
[09:16:52] <alex_joni> is BDI Live allowed to be sold?
[09:16:54] <paul_c> <gulp> Blown my cover
[09:17:59] <alex_joni> don't worry.. I don't want to bug you...
[09:18:57] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is actually working on the autoconf/install stuff
[09:19:04] <paul_c> Well... The guy can seel the CDs...
[09:19:14] <paul_c> or even sell them..
[09:19:55] <alex_joni> if people are willing to pay...
[09:20:08] <paul_c> But will he provide support ?
[09:20:26] <Imperator_> they will ask you :-)
[09:20:33] <alex_joni> or ray
[09:20:41] <paul_c> six bucks for shipping is a bit steep though..
[09:21:37] <Imperator_> maybe that's a buisness for you paul, but mostly such thinks make more work then money
[09:22:15] <Imperator_> the thing is don't sell anything to end users
[09:23:01] <Imperator_> they are asking you one hour how it works and if it is the best for them, then they buy something from you for 10 EUR :-)
[09:24:15] <alex_joni> I tell them to RTFM ;)
[09:26:18] <Imperator_> RTFM ??
[09:26:27] <alex_joni> Read the Fine manual
[09:26:40] <alex_joni> the censored one...
[09:26:42] <Imperator_> :-)
[09:26:50] <Imperator_> jup
[09:26:50] <alex_joni> and Read the Fscking manual
[09:26:55] <alex_joni> the usual one...
[09:28:49] <pfred1_> alex_joni but what if my filesystem is OK?
[09:29:53] <alex_joni> well... then you can mount one, and test that one
[09:30:16] <alex_joni> I would sugest NFS, SMB ...
[09:31:07] <alex_joni> of course the above should expand to read the fsck.ext3ing manual
[09:31:22] <alex_joni> for a normal ext3 FS, but I guess you figured that one out...
[09:35:18] <pfred1_> man they didn't have stuff like this when I was a kid!
[09:35:41] <pfred1_> I'd have definately had blown something up if they did
[09:35:53] <alex_joni> why's that?
[09:36:07] <pfred1_> because it'd have been to easy to have
[09:36:25] <pfred1_> I had ot do this stuff with paper and pencil
[09:36:57] <pfred1_> board autorouters kick ass!
[09:39:44] <pfred1_> alex_joni want to see what I am working on?
[09:39:50] <alex_joni> sure
[09:39:57] <pfred1_>
[09:40:07] <pfred1_> man that's just too cool!
[09:40:40] <alex_joni> nice
[09:40:47] <alex_joni> you got one path unrouted
[09:40:52] <pfred1_> it's a program called Eagle
[09:40:58] <pfred1_> yeah one jumper no biggie
[09:41:09] <alex_joni> i know eagle
[09:41:11] <pfred1_> I got the copper to run jumpers to on it already
[09:41:25] <pfred1_> oh you use Eagle?
[09:41:35] <alex_joni> nope... I just tried it out
[09:41:39] <alex_joni> I use Orcad
[09:41:43] <pfred1_> in the same dir is the sch and brd files
[09:41:50] <pfred1_> Orcad runs on Linux?
[09:41:57] <alex_joni> don't think so
[09:42:03] <pfred1_> yeah must be why i don't use it
[09:42:12] <alex_joni> ;)
[09:42:19] <pfred1_> because they suck!
[09:43:45] <pfred1_> I can't wtil until Microsoft tries to get Linux outlawwed then I'll have a whole new bent on electronic timer and remote detonating projects to work on!
[09:44:04] <pfred1_> muwahaha!
[09:44:18] <alex_joni> hmmm... wanna hear something funny?
[09:44:24] <pfred1_> how about those anywhere minutes?
[09:44:35] <pfred1_> do they work in Redmond?
[09:44:42] <pfred1_> sure
[09:44:58] <alex_joni> do you know where m$ stores local host definitions?
[09:45:15] <pfred1_> all i know about M$ is they're evil crooks
[09:45:19] <alex_joni> in etc/hosts
[09:45:21] <alex_joni> :))
[09:45:34] <pfred1_> yeah it's OK for them to steal stuff
[09:45:38] <alex_joni> actually c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts
[09:45:42] <pfred1_> but not for anyone else ot use anything
[09:46:07] <pfred1_> pfft any OS that used directory tree structure is stealing from UNIX
[09:46:07] <alex_joni> afaik they got a lot of unix programmers employed at some point
[09:46:30] <pfred1_> dir trees UNIX intellectual property!
[09:46:40] <pfred1_> there is no prior art!
[09:46:47] <alex_joni> just before things started to get stable... (at lest as stable as it can with m$)
[09:48:35] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is modifying heavily the make install, autoconf stuff...
[09:48:53] <alex_joni> no ideea what still works, what should work... what could work .. ;)
[09:50:19] <pfred1_> well time to print this bad boy out and test stuff it see how it looks
[09:51:00] <pfred1_> * pfred1_ wiats for his antique laser to warm up ...
[09:51:21] <pfred1_> couldn't pass it up for $10 at a garbage sale ya know?
[09:51:29] <pfred1_> I mean a garage sale
[09:53:04] <alex_joni> the laser?
[09:54:24] <pfred1_> yeah HP L4+ with extra toner cart!
[09:54:45] <pfred1_> just the toner carts on ebay got for like $30 or so
[09:55:11] <alex_joni> L4+ is pretty nice
[09:55:40] <pfred1_> it's a boat anchor
[09:55:45] <alex_joni> lol
[09:55:53] <alex_joni> i have a LJ1200
[09:56:00] <alex_joni> works pretty nice
[09:56:06] <pfred1_> when it dies I'll have ot ask HP for the replacement chain
[09:56:21] <pfred1_> so as i can use it to anchor my boat!
[09:57:04] <pfred1_> I mean you can't buy a nice pen for $10
[10:00:59] <alex_joni> guess you can...
[10:14:49] <alex_joni> is there a print or echo in tcl?
[10:17:34] <paul_c> puts
[10:18:25] <alex_joni> yey... emc2 started
[10:25:28] <alex_joni> run-in-place still works
[10:25:33] <alex_joni> now to get to the install part
[10:29:53] <alex_joni> paul: I know I said I won't bug you.. but can I ask a short question?
[10:30:12] <paul_c> how shrt ?
[10:30:42] <alex_joni> what's the difference between lower letters and UPCASE letters with env_vars?
[10:30:59] <alex_joni> $MODULEDIR against $moduledir
[10:31:26] <paul_c> Where are you looking ?
[10:31:38] <alex_joni> for example Makefile.inc
[10:32:05] <alex_joni> all the default values from autoconf are lowercase (e.g. bindir, sysconfdir, etc)
[10:32:42] <alex_joni> other vars are defined UPPERCASE (e.g. RTNAME, CC, RTFLAGS, CFLAGS)
[10:33:14] <paul_c> Upper case are used in the make files
[10:33:46] <paul_c> lower case looks like something you and zwisk added
[10:34:04] <paul_c> presumably for the make install target
[10:35:02] <alex_joni> actually those are standard for autoconf (in all autoconf-aware packages)
[10:35:17] <alex_joni> so it's only a convention
[10:35:38] <pfred1_> alex_joni yeah you tie a good one on at the convention?
[10:35:39] <alex_joni> I think I'll leave them lowercase (although ENV_VARS should be uppercase by default)
[10:36:04] <alex_joni> pfred1_ not nice to laugh at tired people ;)
[10:36:49] <pfred1_> danfalck dan the man!
[10:37:00] <danfalck> hi guys
[10:37:08] <alex_joni> hi
[10:37:42] <danfalck> what's happening?
[10:37:56] <robin_sz> aliens have landed
[10:38:12] <alex_joni> it is awake...
[10:38:16] <alex_joni> and it speaks
[10:38:42] <alex_joni> it still needs some work.. as it speaks only rubbish
[10:38:52] <alex_joni> about aliens...
[10:39:05] <robin_sz> yes?
[10:39:08] <danfalck> someone here probably has a cure for the aliens
[10:39:13] <paul_c> danfalck: slideshow fixed & working now.
[10:39:17] <alex_joni> but it's a step toward intelligence
[10:39:30] <danfalck> big EMC powered laser pointed at the sky...
[10:40:00] <pfred1_> I remember the lasers they used to fire off the WTC
[10:40:03] <robin_sz> "I hope that theres intelligent life somewhere out in space, because theres bugger all down here on earth"
[10:40:22] <pfred1_> robin_sz intelligence is not a survival trait
[10:40:50] <robin_sz> true. you should see the pond-life that inhabits my local town ...
[10:41:05] <danfalck> paul_c: is the slideshow going on the next CD?
[10:41:33] <pfred1_> the tutrle 300 million years the cockroach 350 million years the shark 400 million years humanity never make it to a mil!
[10:41:57] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[10:42:07] <paul_c> danfalck: Yup
[10:42:15] <pfred1_> if all else fails we'll just all drown in boron or somehting
[10:43:44] <robin_sz> nah, one of these high powere physics guys will collide two hadrons at improbable energies and whoops, they discover how to re-trigger the 'big bang'
[10:44:02] <pfred1_> or make a black hole in a lab or something
[10:44:09] <pfred1_> that'd suck huh?
[10:44:31] <robin_sz> "well, I never thought that would happpppeeeeeee....."
[10:44:59] <pfred1_> it's going to get really ugly when we do finally run out of fossil fuels
[10:45:38] <robin_sz> shrug
[10:45:57] <danfalck> paul_c: can we have a sneak peek at the slideshow?
[10:46:11] <pfred1_> paul_c take it off take it all off!
[10:46:19] <robin_sz> does this slideshow involve paul_c parading in his underwear?
[10:46:22] <pfred1_> ba da da ba!
[10:46:44] <paul_c> * paul_c nominate two more for a kick from the admin.
[10:47:13] <alex_joni> conversation like this is what keeps me going at 2:38 am
[10:47:14] <alex_joni> lol
[10:47:30] <robin_sz> * robin_sz suddenly has a idea for a new desktop background
[10:47:53] <paul_c> danfalck: You'll have to wait for the CD I'm afraid.
[10:48:17] <pfred1_> alex_joni Salvador Dali?
[10:48:40] <pfred1_> paul_c you tease!
[10:48:56] <alex_joni> pfred1_: why do you say that?
[10:49:19] <pfred1_> alex_joni it's what i use on my desktop background
[10:49:32] <alex_joni> so?
[10:49:45] <pfred1_> alex_joni well you asked
[10:49:52] <alex_joni> no I didn't
[10:49:57] <robin_sz> no he didnt
[10:49:59] <alex_joni> I am tired... but not that tired
[10:49:59] <pfred1_> <alex_joni> pfred1_: why do you say that?
[10:50:34] <alex_joni> * robin_sz suddenly has a idea for a new desktop background
[10:51:10] <alex_joni> anyways... Dali is pretty nice
[10:51:12] <pfred1_> alex_joni I guess you're just not that big a fan of surrealism
[10:51:26] <alex_joni> not that big...
[10:51:26] <robin_sz> which was paul_c in his underwear ... it sure would get us a reputation ... we could easily get slashdotted with that ;))
[10:51:50] <alex_joni> I think a little bit more than just slashdotted
[10:51:56] <robin_sz> probably ;)
[10:52:27] <alex_joni> but I think that would be a way to make ebo like paul a little better ;)
[10:52:56] <robin_sz> is ebo still about?
[10:53:02] <alex_joni> hope not
[11:00:59] <robin_sz> so thats how laser cooling works ...
[11:01:08] <alex_joni> how?
[11:01:58] <robin_sz> take an ion, place it in a vacuum ... it still has energy, and therefor temperature ... being in vacuum, it can't cool
[11:02:28] <robin_sz> point a particular frequncy of light at it, photon is absorbed and then re-emitted
[11:02:34] <pfred1_> robin_sz so you're saying that the Sun still has all the heat it's ever generated?
[11:02:46] <robin_sz> each time, the ion loses a little energy
[11:02:59] <robin_sz> until eventually its is very very close to abs. zero
[11:03:45] <robin_sz> pfred1_: the sun can release photons to dissipate energy, a single ion cant (unless another photon arrives ...)
[11:04:06] <alex_joni> and where do you take a single ion at this time?
[11:04:14] <pfred1_> robin_sz I'll take your word for it
[11:04:43] <robin_sz> well, quite why youd want to cool a single ion to abs zero is another question
[11:05:07] <pfred1_> supr fast cold beers!
[11:05:10] <robin_sz> http://www.npl.co.uk/optical_frequency_standards/ticking_faster.html
[11:05:15] <alex_joni> not with a single ion
[11:05:26] <pfred1_> maybe a stream of them?
[11:05:35] <pfred1_> the killer chiller!
[11:05:35] <alex_joni> you need a bunch of them to cool a beer
[11:06:03] <pfred1_> til you perfect it I'll stick with my plaster bucket water and ice
[11:06:42] <pfred1_> a technique which i have perfected over the years
[11:06:59] <robin_sz> so .. back to cnc ...
[11:07:05] <robin_sz> I have:
[11:07:08] <pfred1_> when i get my amp done
[11:07:13] <robin_sz> a wooden object ...
[11:07:23] <robin_sz> and a 3 axis cnc thing ...
[11:07:36] <robin_sz> I need to scan the object to point-cloud data ...
[11:07:42] <robin_sz> build an IGES model ...
[11:08:00] <robin_sz> produce a machining starategy of rough and fine passes ..
[11:08:03] <pfred1_> me i was looking at router bits today
[11:08:09] <robin_sz> and then make lots of em ...
[11:08:23] <pfred1_> bout as close as i got to CNC
[11:08:35] <pfred1_> ended up buying a circular saw blade
[11:08:39] <robin_sz> scanning is easy enough ... what do peopel recommend for working point-cloaud data up into IGES models then?
[11:09:54] <robin_sz> hmmm ...
[11:10:05] <robin_sz> so, no 3d wizards here then?
[11:10:06] <pfred1_> I've seen programs that can like make gcode out of like jpgs or what have you
[11:10:10] <alex_joni> a pen?
[11:11:14] <robin_sz> yeah, thats not quite the same ... I do need to build IGES surface definitions so we can remodle it etc
[11:11:40] <pfred1_> robin_sz when I get done wiht my machine I'll be happy if it can just do text
[11:11:56] <pfred1_> thrilled in fact!
[11:11:58] <robin_sz> (its a job for my gunsmith, I work out how to carve hand grips, I get new rifle ;)
[11:12:03] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[11:12:19] <robin_sz> building stuff that does 3d text was my first cnc machine ..
[11:12:30] <paul_c> vtk will take a cloud of points
[11:12:41] <robin_sz> vtk?
[11:12:48] <paul_c> and export a number of formats
[11:13:17] <pfred1_> robin_sz vtk = very terrible krakhead
[11:13:30] <robin_sz> I think the woodwork has gone off to be laser scanned. we'll get back ASCII point cloud data
[11:14:00] <robin_sz> oh yes.
[11:14:13] <robin_sz> I have VTK here ... somehwere
[11:14:16] <pfred1_> I saw a website someplace where guy made 3D laser scanner
[11:14:32] <robin_sz> yeah, we just sent it off, was easier
[11:15:02] <paul_c> http://public.kitware.com/VTK/
[11:16:02] <robin_sz> * robin_sz reads the FAQ
[11:16:32] <paul_c> had it render an stl of Chips
[11:17:05] <robin_sz> I think if I can get point-cloud to STL I can use Rhino to surface it
[11:17:39] <alex_joni> emc2 is now running from the installed location
[11:18:08] <alex_joni> paul_c: what was that cvs command to commit everything?
[11:18:24] <alex_joni> ci?
[11:23:12] <paul_c> yup
[11:23:42] <paul_c> ci -m "Resume of the changes"
[11:29:03] <alex_joni> hmmm...
[11:29:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders...
[11:29:31] <alex_joni> when a make install is made (in a specific dir) DESTDIR=test, for package building
[11:29:41] <alex_joni> is emc2 supposed to work from there as well ?
[11:34:04] <CIA-9> 03alex_joni 07autoconf_install_0_1 * 10emc2/ (8 files in 4 dirs):
[11:34:04] <CIA-9> a lot of changes in order to get make install work. It needs testing. Right now
[11:34:04] <CIA-9> run-in-place works (scripts/test.run), is supported during make install, target
[11:34:04] <CIA-9> dirs are created by autoconf, install.map shows the locations where various
[11:34:04] <CIA-9> files go. uninstall still needs to get done, so do make tgz, make rpm, deb and
[11:34:04] <CIA-9> other...
[11:35:19] <paul_c> You don't have a "make deb" rule
[11:35:43] <alex_joni> not yet
[11:35:59] <paul_c> not at all.
[11:36:01] <alex_joni> ahhh... there is no such thing?
[11:36:08] <paul_c> right
[11:36:32] <alex_joni> well... I actually wanted to point out that deb-package support needs to get fixed
[11:36:33] <paul_c> dpkg-buildpackage does it all.
[11:36:39] <alex_joni> ahh.. ok
[11:36:58] <alex_joni> I just realised some files didn't exist on CVS
[11:37:03] <alex_joni> I added those now...
[11:43:19] <CIA-9> 03alex_joni 07autoconf_install_0_1 * 10emc2/scripts/ (emc.run.in test.run.in emc.run): added scripts/test.run.in and scripts/emc.run.in from which ./configure generates the runscripts
[11:59:52] <CIA-9> 03alex_joni 07autoconf_install_0_1 * 10emc2/ (configure.in configure): added a message to the user at the end of ./configure, what to do next
[12:00:34] <alex_joni> geee... configure is at version
[12:00:48] <alex_joni> pretty simple to remember
[12:02:58] <alex_joni> ok.. guess I'll call it a day...
[12:03:05] <alex_joni> it's 4 am here... time to sleep
[12:03:06] <alex_joni> bye
[20:08:01] <asdfqwega> Ooo, robin's here!
[20:08:50] <asdfqwega> Lessee...it should be 10AM over there...
[20:08:59] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega waves to robin_sz
[20:12:33] <asdfqwega> Advice to everyone - don't drink strong stimulants when doing soldering on circuits :)
[20:12:53] <asdfqwega> Very SMALL circuits
[20:15:11] <asdfqwega> Like trying to thread a needle with a jackhammer
[21:20:55] <robin_sz> * robin_sz waves to asdfqwega
[22:38:11] <robin_sz> meep?
[22:43:57] <paul_c> yup.
[22:44:17] <robin_sz> paul_c: how is your physics?
[22:45:18] <robin_sz> so if you have a leverm and apply a force, the resultant moment is F x l, right?
[22:47:19] <paul_c> sounds about right...
[22:47:32] <robin_sz> so ... whats wrong with this then?
[22:47:41] <robin_sz> http://zattevrienden.realroot.be/depanneren.htm
[22:48:57] <paul_c> a) He didn't have any outriggers down
[22:49:20] <robin_sz> s/down//
[22:49:25] <paul_c> b) failed to take in to account the wieght of the water...
[22:49:50] <robin_sz> c) he's Irish?
[22:50:00] <robin_sz> (its in connemara ..)
[22:51:20] <robin_sz> I thnk it was OK while he was lifting slightly forward over the cab a little, but as he swung it 90> to the side ...
[23:48:39] <alex_joni> * alex_joni waves
[23:55:35] <les> hi alex
[23:55:48] <les> quiet today...
[23:57:28] <alex_joni> hey les...
[23:57:34] <alex_joni> it's pretty early I guess...