#emc | Logs for 2004-11-19

[03:05:12] <paul_c> Not me...
[03:05:38] <alex_joni> seemed similar...
[03:05:42] <alex_joni> anyways...
[03:05:49] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just fired up his devel machine...
[03:08:55] <alex_joni> is it ok to use: cvs rtag -r auto_configure_0_1 -b autoconf_install_alex_1 emc2
[03:09:46] <paul_c> auto_configure_0_2
[03:09:58] <paul_c> or auto_configure_0_1b
[03:10:16] <paul_c> keep the tags reasonably short....
[03:10:47] <paul_c> the purpose of the fork can be put in the comments of the first commit.
[03:10:50] <alex_joni> do I need the -r ? or is the -b enough?
[03:11:23] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is a little lost between tags and branches... :(
[03:11:25] <paul_c> just the -b flag
[03:12:48] <alex_joni> and I can do this from within the last branch dir?
[03:16:05] <paul_c> yup
[03:39:07] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is back..
[03:39:15] <alex_joni> so to get things right:
[03:39:47] <alex_joni> cvs rtag -b auto_configure_0_2 emc2
[03:40:56] <alex_joni> cvs update -r auto_configure_0_2
[03:40:56] <alex_joni> cvs commit
[03:42:38] <alex_joni> right?
[03:43:23] <paul_c> looks about right - Although....
[03:43:35] <paul_c> If you have any uncommitted changes
[03:43:43] <paul_c> they could get trashed...
[03:44:34] <alex_joni> I don't have any
[03:44:58] <alex_joni> just did a cvs up...
[03:45:18] <alex_joni> can I put the comment to the commit?
[03:45:23] <alex_joni> to explain what & why?
[03:45:39] <paul_c> sure.
[03:45:54] <alex_joni> in a second...
[03:46:21] <paul_c> Hi Ray
[03:46:37] <alex_joni> hey ray
[03:46:38] <rayh> Evening Paul. How are things there today?
[03:46:51] <rayh> Alex. Hi.
[03:47:12] <paul_c> * paul_c curses dependecies that don't show up untill install time...
[03:47:29] <rayh> alex_joni: You're weather turning cold yet?
[03:47:49] <alex_joni> paul_c : try ncurses dependencies :D
[03:48:02] <rayh> * rayh goes for more coffee so he can get the correct words.
[03:48:28] <alex_joni> rayh: still pretty ok... around 40-50
[03:52:01] <alex_joni> paul: the cvs update checks the branch against the main module?
[03:53:05] <paul_c> Hmmmm.... You might have wanted the -r flag after all...
[03:53:27] <alex_joni> can I tag again ?
[03:53:33] <alex_joni> before I commit?
[03:53:59] <paul_c> You'll need another flag....
[03:54:31] <rayh> Nice weather here today as well about the same temp. Saw some ice on the lake last weekend.
[03:54:34] <alex_joni> cvs rtag -r auto_configure_0_1 -b autoconf_install_0_1 emc2
[03:54:43] <alex_joni> sounds ok?
[03:54:59] <paul_c> cvs rtag -r auto_configure_0_1 -F -b autoconf_install_0_1 emc2
[03:55:58] <alex_joni> -F ?
[03:56:22] <alex_joni> I see.. to retag
[03:57:07] <paul_c> to Force the re-use of an existing tag
[03:57:37] <alex_joni> yeah... it's all there ... in the manual.. just got to know where to look (or what to look for)
[04:00:01] <paul_c> * paul_c uses the index ;)
[04:00:09] <alex_joni> yeah ;)
[04:00:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders what to say in the comment to the commit...
[04:01:03] <alex_joni> don't think: "don't want to step on anybody's toes so I'm using my own branch" is ok... is it?
[04:01:22] <rayh> "plan B"?
[04:01:36] <alex_joni> ray: ;)
[04:01:45] <alex_joni> I think it's past H
[04:03:31] <rayh> I know the feeling!
[04:04:29] <rayh> Just keep saying to yourself, we will have an improvement worth the effort.
[04:04:49] <alex_joni> well... that's what keeps me going ...
[04:06:22] <rayh> These abilities are critical to it's success.
[04:07:20] <alex_joni> paul: I did the commit...
[04:07:27] <alex_joni> didn't see anything to happen
[04:12:29] <rayh> Hey Paul. How's the new BDI install set? My Knoppix is beginning to do goofy stuff...
[04:12:51] <rayh> I can see a cluster f%$# on the horizon.
[04:29:41] <alex_joni> hey martin
[04:35:21] <alex_joni> rayh: what cluster?
[04:36:10] <rayh> Well It's my fault for trying to apt-get a minor update from debian unstable.
[04:37:59] <alex_joni> I see...
[04:38:27] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders... everybody seems to be talking about debian lately...
[04:40:23] <rayh> I ran RedHat 5,6,7 then switched to Mandrake for 8,9. Then both of these tried to charge some way for their upgrades and such.
[04:40:35] <alex_joni> I use SuSE...
[04:40:36] <alex_joni> ;)
[04:41:10] <rayh> They also made changes to the pristine kernel and other packages that made a mess of what I was doing with EMC.
[04:41:39] <alex_joni> I don't really like kernel updates ...
[04:41:40] <rayh> I've got a SuSE box here next to me. 9.1 server.
[04:41:47] <alex_joni> I like to do my own compile / install
[04:42:05] <rayh> True. That way you can get only the stuff you need.
[04:42:07] <alex_joni> enterprise server?
[04:42:23] <rayh> It's a novel/SuSE thing.
[04:42:57] <rayh> I do like what I see of YaST
[04:43:02] <alex_joni> yeah...
[04:43:07] <alex_joni> yast is pretty cool...
[04:43:18] <alex_joni> I especially like that they have GPL'ed it
[04:43:30] <alex_joni> it used to be proprietary...
[04:43:35] <rayh> Although the Synaptic package manager from deb is good.
[04:43:44] <rayh> I didn't know that.
[04:44:00] <alex_joni> it was... till some point around suse 8.0 I think
[04:44:02] <alex_joni> or even sooner
[04:44:09] <rayh> What debian needs is a good/helpful configuration system.
[04:44:18] <alex_joni> I also like YOU
[04:44:19] <alex_joni> ;)
[04:44:28] <alex_joni> Yast Online Update
[04:44:32] <rayh> I've not tried it.
[04:44:38] <rayh> I see it there.
[04:45:10] <rayh> Seems to me that it brings with it all of the RPM problems.
[04:45:25] <alex_joni> I didn't need to set it up...
[04:45:26] <rayh> Have you had a good experience with YOU.
[04:45:29] <alex_joni> it came preinstall...
[04:45:32] <alex_joni> preinstalled
[04:45:34] <alex_joni> into cron
[04:45:43] <alex_joni> it just does it's job by itself
[04:46:02] <alex_joni> I get e-mails from time to time, what has been updated
[04:46:35] <alex_joni> http://news.com.com/2100-7344_3-5175682.html?tag=nefd_top
[04:47:16] <rayh> I've been messing around with SuSE, trying to break things.
[04:47:24] <alex_joni> and?
[04:47:46] <rayh> I'm at the point of trying to decide between it and Paul's new BDI.
[04:47:56] <Imperator_> Hi Alex, Hi all
[04:48:14] <rayh> Hi Martin.
[04:48:48] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ wants to find out how homing works
[04:49:13] <rayh> Somewhere deep in YaST I changed the cdrom eject settings and now it stays open whenever I'm not using it.
[04:49:48] <alex_joni> I did dislike something about yast
[04:49:52] <alex_joni> I am using 8.2
[04:49:57] <rayh> Imperator_: I can try to answer your questions.
[04:50:12] <alex_joni> and during install it installs from /dev/hdc (which is my cdrom)
[04:50:44] <alex_joni> but after install it detects the cdrom as a writer and does the ide-scsi workaround to be able to burn
[04:50:51] <Imperator_> Ok, i want to know if it is possible tolet a hal module know that emc2 wants to home a joint
[04:51:04] <Imperator_> because i want to write a module for ganry axis
[04:51:14] <alex_joni> after that yast doesn't find /dev/hdc anymore ;)
[04:51:19] <Imperator_> and i have to home this axis twice
[04:51:25] <rayh> Oh. That's way beyond my kin.
[04:51:33] <Imperator_> one for every axis of the gantry
[04:51:36] <Imperator_> :-)
[04:51:38] <alex_joni> Imperator_: I think some new NML messages need to be written (defined) for that to work
[04:51:57] <Imperator_> hm, thats the question
[04:51:57] <alex_joni> but I think a more general approach is to have emc know that it has 4 axes
[04:52:04] <alex_joni> XXYZ
[04:52:12] <alex_joni> and emc needs to home them all
[04:52:14] <alex_joni> first X
[04:52:17] <alex_joni> then X'
[04:52:20] <alex_joni> then Y, Z
[04:52:51] <alex_joni> or you don't want emc to know that it has 2 X-es?
[04:52:53] <Imperator_> that is also the question if emc has to know that, because during operation it makes no difference
[04:53:26] <Imperator_> and even in free mode that two axis don't have to move individual
[04:53:34] <alex_joni> well.. you have to define the axes somewhere
[04:53:39] <alex_joni> I would go with the ini file
[04:54:07] <Imperator_> i thought or better john thought to write a hal module that does this
[04:55:35] <alex_joni> still...
[04:55:43] <alex_joni> you gotta define the axis somewhere
[04:55:51] <alex_joni> you don't want to have things hardcoded
[04:57:16] <alex_joni> so my thinking is: you define the axis in emc.ini (or whatever filename)
[04:57:30] <alex_joni> therefore you will have it in TkEMC
[04:57:35] <alex_joni> or whatever GUI
[04:57:52] <rayh> If you do define xx in the ini, both will show in the standard guis.
[04:58:07] <alex_joni> yup
[04:58:30] <alex_joni> but I'm not sure what names you could/should use...
[04:58:46] <alex_joni> don't think it'll work to use X twice ;)
[04:58:57] <rayh> We could fix the gui fairly easily.
[04:59:16] <alex_joni> the gui yes, but I am more concearned about emc
[04:59:28] <alex_joni> anyways.. let's say you name it X'
[04:59:41] <alex_joni> you would have 2 different X-es in the GUI
[04:59:52] <Imperator_> X1 and X2 are the usual names
[05:00:17] <rayh> Imperator_: Does your gantry design permit each X to move separately?
[05:00:30] <Imperator_> but the operater don't want to know this and he dont want to see two axis
[05:01:04] <Imperator_> it is not build at teh moment, but that have not to happen rayh
[05:01:42] <Imperator_> i think a hal module is a dood idea
[05:02:08] <rayh> So both motors must act exactly the same.
[05:02:16] <Imperator_> jep
[05:02:24] <Imperator_> otherwise, krrrreekkk
[05:03:16] <rayh> I've worked on a couple of machines that had four motors for Z so I understand the problem.
[05:03:39] <Imperator_> big stuff
[05:04:12] <alex_joni> nice stuff...
[05:04:26] <alex_joni> Imperator_: then the HAL module is the right way to go
[05:05:03] <rayh> That would also be my opinion.
[05:05:04] <Imperator_> ok, then i have to find out how homing works
[05:06:22] <Imperator_> is somewhere a diagramm how all the files are working together ?
[05:06:36] <alex_joni> there are some diagrams in the pdf files
[05:06:45] <rayh> IMO you would command a home in X and your hal module would drive both until it saw the home switch and an encoder if there was one.
[05:06:46] <alex_joni> about homnig too... but not to this level
[05:06:55] <Imperator_> jep
[05:07:13] <alex_joni> problem is.. right now the driving is not done from a hal module.. right?
[05:07:18] <paul_c> YES !!!!! BDI now has KDE.
[05:07:25] <alex_joni> paul_c: nice
[05:07:40] <alex_joni> up to 16 CD's with KDE ?
[05:07:41] <alex_joni> :D
[05:08:00] <Imperator_> :-) thats nice Paul
[05:08:01] <paul_c> Just the one CD
[05:08:08] <alex_joni> for BDI?
[05:08:16] <paul_c> yup
[05:08:19] <alex_joni> got a link?
[05:08:41] <alex_joni> or not yet...
[05:08:41] <paul_c> Got Python-openGL plus a few of the VTK libs
[05:09:26] <paul_c> Need to work on building EMC now...
[05:10:19] <alex_joni> Imperator_: as I see it hal is connected through the ext_ functions to emc
[05:11:15] <Imperator_> in which file are they
[05:11:39] <rayh> paul_c: This single cd is intended for users. Does it also include devel stuff?
[05:12:35] <alex_joni> src/emc/hal_intf/exthalmot.c and extintf.h
[05:12:52] <paul_c> fsckit... exception error during install...
[05:13:21] <paul_c> rayh: There are a number of dev tools & libs included
[05:13:56] <paul_c> LyX will take it in to a second CD for sure...
[05:15:49] <Imperator_> alex_joni: that is the old interface i think
[05:16:44] <alex_joni> what do you mean?
[05:17:28] <rayh> These additional packages can be gotten by apt-get though.
[05:17:46] <paul_c> yes.
[05:18:05] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has got to go home... (still at work at 9 PM is not good)
[05:18:11] <alex_joni> bye guys
[05:18:20] <paul_c> alex_joni: Slacker ;}
[05:18:29] <rayh> I'm reasonably certain that developers will have their PC connected so that should not be a serious issue.
[05:18:33] <alex_joni> slacker?
[05:18:44] <alex_joni> what's that?
[05:18:44] <rayh> See you alex.
[05:18:57] <Imperator_> i think the files in src/emc/hal_intf/.... are not used anymore Alex
[05:18:58] <paul_c> slacker = Part time worker.
[05:19:11] <alex_joni> part time sleeper
[05:19:17] <alex_joni> more likely...
[05:19:32] <paul_c> Go home and get some rest ''
[05:19:36] <alex_joni> anyways... give me a link when it's half-way working... I wanna try it out ;)
[05:19:50] <alex_joni> well.. catch you later... bye
[05:19:55] <Imperator_> chiao
[05:21:02] <paul_c> Imperator_: I don't think HAL will help with homing an XX axis
[05:21:15] <Imperator_> hm
[05:21:32] <paul_c> The homing routine is coded to work on a single joint at a time.
[05:21:34] <Imperator_> otherwise i have to change alot
[05:53:57] <les> hello
[05:54:20] <Imperator_> Hi les
[05:55:01] <les> was machining something with emc just now that shows that velocity is miscalculated somewhere
[05:56:14] <les> I was making a rosette...kind of like machining a doughnut with a spiral tool path
[05:57:08] <les> given point to point xyz the greater the z component the slower it went
[05:57:22] <les> sometimes almost stopping
[05:58:07] <les> I think velocity in 3 axis blends is miscalculated
[05:58:20] <les> but 2 axis blending works
[05:58:31] <les> (correct velocity)
[05:59:22] <les> ...this is the original traj planner
[05:59:50] <les> I am gonna have a close look at the code...this has given me some clues
[06:00:55] <les> the spiral has a very small slope
[06:01:37] <les> and I think it is applying the slowest axis velocity to all axes
[06:01:54] <les> It still gets from point to point
[06:02:08] <les> but with drastically wrong velocity
[06:31:42] <Imperator_> are the points made by a CAM software ?
[06:43:02] <les> hi
[06:43:04] <les> yes
[06:43:43] <Imperator_> it consists only of g1 lines ?
[06:43:59] <les> very close together g1 yes
[06:45:40] <Imperator_> i have made sometimes two test tool path which only move in x and y with very smal g1 lines. if you want i can send you them for testing
[06:46:23] <les> sure
[06:46:32] <Imperator_> email ?
[06:46:58] <les> leswatts@lmwatts.com
[06:47:32] <les> thanks
[06:47:50] <Imperator_> done
[06:48:19] <les> xy blends do fine
[06:48:46] <les> xyz blends slow improperly
[06:49:23] <cradek> you could time your XY program before and after replacing all the Y with Z
[06:49:36] <les> even if the vector is tiny fractions of a degree from the xy plane
[06:49:56] <les> good idea cradek
[06:49:59] <cradek> is it anything containing Z that's wrong, or three-axis vectors in particular?
[06:49:59] <Imperator_> that file i send you are boththe same spline only the lenght of the g1 lines are different
[06:50:40] <les> blended moves in particular
[06:51:09] <les> single moves in xyz have the correct velocity
[06:52:14] <les> of course it is supposed to slow down if allowed accel is insufficient
[06:52:21] <les> that is not the case here
[06:52:34] <Imperator_> if you need test files, say please what you need. I have a very good CAD/CAM software at work
[06:53:01] <les> thanks
[06:53:18] <les> mine are pretty good too
[06:53:40] <Imperator_> i can also import nc code and maybe turn it with a given angel, or so. but only G0 and G1
[06:53:47] <Imperator_> ok
[06:54:02] <Imperator_> what do you have ?
[06:54:36] <les> Millwrite, artcam, mastercam
[06:55:18] <les> do you have a cnc router there?
[06:55:36] <Imperator_> i know only mastercam. that is one of the biggest competitor of the one i have
[06:56:41] <Imperator_> at work we have a Digma 500GC it is a HSC machine www.digma.de and two Deckel machines
[06:56:59] <les> I may call Fred on this one...this particular job really showed the bug
[06:57:50] <les> making the top (flatter) part of the donut speed was 120 ipm
[06:58:42] <les> as it reached the more vertical parts speed dropped to about 30 ipm
[06:58:53] <les> and was irregular
[06:59:08] <Imperator_> can you send me your file ?
[06:59:15] <cradek> I'd like to see it too
[06:59:33] <les> my pleasure...it's big...1.3 Mb
[06:59:38] <cradek> use dcc
[06:59:47] <Imperator_> zip
[07:00:20] <les> email for you and cradek?
[07:00:32] <les> address
[07:00:34] <cradek> send it with dcc please
[07:00:55] <les> do not have dcc
[07:01:02] <Imperator_> what is dcc ?
[07:01:10] <cradek> file transfer over irc
[07:01:20] <Imperator_> ah
[07:01:29] <cradek> les: your irc client doesn't do it?
[07:01:38] <les> hmm I am using mIRC...let me see if it has that
[07:01:51] <cradek> rightclick on my nick and maybe it has "send file" or something
[07:02:05] <les> k
[07:02:34] <les> yes has DCC
[07:02:44] <les> working on it...
[07:04:59] <cradek> ok it's transferring
[07:05:05] <cradek> be back in a bit
[07:05:35] <les> ok now I will try a DCC to imperator
[07:05:59] <Imperator_> i have chatzilla don't know if that works ???
[07:06:06] <Imperator_> but interesting to know
[07:07:39] <les> I sent a send request but you did not see it I guess
[07:07:52] <les> give me an email address
[07:08:26] <Imperator_> there was the message "DCC Send rosette2.tap"
[07:08:35] <Imperator_> but don't know what to do
[07:08:56] <les> oh...ok....you need to click or say yes or something
[07:09:12] <Imperator_> hm but how
[07:09:41] <les> check some stuff to see
[07:09:48] <les> this is pretty neat
[07:09:56] <les> did not know about it
[07:10:09] <Imperator_> have you recived my mail ?
[07:10:19] <les> I will do a send request again while you look
[07:10:24] <les> let me check..
[07:11:11] <les> yes
[07:11:25] <Imperator_> you can send your file back to this adress
[07:11:45] <les> ok will do
[07:15:39] <Imperator_> ok have it
[07:21:36] <les> sorry forgot to zip
[07:22:08] <les> this is in inch
[07:22:25] <les> z0 is top surface
[07:22:41] <les> cuts are negative z
[07:22:41] <Imperator_> jep i have scaled it by 24
[07:23:04] <les> diameter is about 7.5 inches
[07:23:14] <Imperator_> it starts in the middle is there the speed too low ??
[07:23:23] <Imperator_> at the outside it is ok ?
[07:23:52] <les> no...because that has a raised dome fearure with a flat top
[07:24:18] <les> extreme outside is ok as it is only xy moves
[07:25:10] <Imperator_> because at the middle the angel between the lines is about 20�
[07:25:24] <Imperator_> maybe emc detects a edge
[07:25:51] <Imperator_> oh �h
[07:25:59] <Imperator_> you have some errors
[07:26:16] <les> ?
[07:26:21] <les> what do you see
[07:26:33] <Imperator_> errors :-)
[07:26:39] <les> haha
[07:26:47] <les> this is an artcam file...
[07:26:51] <Imperator_> you have some problems with your surface i think
[07:27:07] <Imperator_> one moment i make a screenshot
[07:27:28] <les> it made the parts..just with the wrong spped and feed
[07:27:28] <cradek> the file looks fine to me
[07:28:16] <les> I took a quick look and it seemed ok
[07:28:30] <les> sometimes repeated points occur
[07:28:51] <les> but I didn't see any
[07:29:04] <les> still might be some
[07:30:44] <Imperator_> look from the side to the aereas where you have about 45�
[07:31:00] <Imperator_> you have mail les
[07:31:06] <les> k...
[07:32:08] <les> latest (a screen shot?) has not come yet
[07:32:19] <les> any second now though
[07:32:52] <Imperator_> with which software do you have made that tool path ?
[07:33:01] <les> artcam
[07:33:28] <les> it only uses g0 and g1
[07:33:48] <Imperator_> same as mine
[07:34:14] <cradek> les: on the rounded parts, Z is going up and down
[07:34:36] <les> hmm
[07:35:02] <les> you mean short term?
[07:35:09] <cradek> yes
[07:35:21] <les> how much
[07:35:31] <cradek> look around line 3982
[07:35:40] <les> let me open it
[07:35:53] <cradek> z-.3158 z-.3160 z-.3169 z-.3139 z-.3156
[07:35:58] <Imperator_> look at the screenshot
[07:36:47] <cradek> I agree the file is bogus
[07:37:48] <cradek> look at lines 4220-4225
[07:37:55] <les> hmm
[07:38:00] <cradek> Z is reversing on every line and moving .004
[07:38:22] <cradek> so you're running into your acceleration limit
[07:38:48] <les> hmmm I see
[07:39:00] <les> let me calculate it...
[07:39:11] <Imperator_> do you have a IGES or VDA surface ?
[07:39:52] <les> it was created in the cam program by sweeping a polyline
[07:41:04] <les> since x and y should be most of the vector speed....
[07:45:19] <cradek> look at lines 38182-38189: the biggest component is Z
[07:46:37] <les> I calc the z dither observed is at about 4E-5 in/sec
[07:49:01] <les> rats word does line numbers on a page basis
[07:49:12] <les> must use something else
[07:50:18] <cradek> repeat after me: Word is not a text editor
[07:50:34] <les> ahem I see that haha
[07:51:40] <les> I was forced to just go to xp because I had to write code running on it
[07:52:00] <les> don't think there is a real text editor on here
[07:52:12] <Imperator_> you can see that problem even in the flash promotion at the artcam homepage :-)
[07:53:24] <Imperator_> i use context. it is a very good and free editor
[07:53:35] <cradek> let me paste these lines
[07:53:42] <cradek> 38182 X-2.8179Y1.4487Z-0.3763
[07:53:42] <cradek> 38183 X-2.8225Y1.4398Z-0.3677
[07:53:42] <cradek> 38184 X-2.8270Y1.4309Z-0.3763
[07:53:42] <cradek> 38185 X-2.8315Y1.4220Z-0.3675
[07:53:42] <cradek> 38186 X-2.8360Y1.4131Z-0.3763
[07:53:45] <cradek> 38187 X-2.8404Y1.4042Z-0.3677
[07:53:47] <cradek> 38188 X-2.8448Y1.3953Z-0.3763
[07:53:50] <cradek> 38189 X-2.8492Y1.3863Z-0.3682
[07:54:19] <les> wow
[07:56:15] <les> I think I do not have accel limit problems (calculating) but I do not think emc blends on reversals
[07:56:27] <les> even in one axix only...
[07:56:40] <cradek> ahh
[07:57:31] <les> I have seen that in the code...but not sure whether it is in joint or task space
[07:58:24] <les> the vector angle is small though
[07:58:32] <les> .004 in .02
[07:58:40] <les> arctan that
[07:59:08] <jepler> >>> atan2(.004, .02) * 120 / pi
[07:59:08] <jepler> 7.5399549826801415
[07:59:26] <jepler> er, that's wrong, it's * 180 / pi = 11.31 degrees
[07:59:41] <Imperator_> you got my screenshot les ???
[07:59:53] <les> checking
[08:02:03] <cradek> >>> atan2((2.8179-2.8225), (0.3763-0.3677)) * 180 / pi
[08:02:03] <cradek> -28.141601232261408
[08:02:36] <les> the screenshot has not shown up!?
[08:02:38] <cradek> that's lines 38182-38183
[08:04:00] <Imperator_> what do you mean les ?
[08:06:23] <les> haha got it via irc
[08:06:33] <cradek> I sent that one...
[08:06:54] <les> oh ok
[08:06:56] <cradek> the highlighted segment in the picture corresponds to the highlighted program line
[08:06:58] <les> nasty path
[08:07:17] <cradek> what program generated this?
[08:07:22] <Imperator_> jup
[08:08:18] <les> I had calculated only.016 in/sec^2 needed for some moves but let me check this
[08:11:10] <les> looks nasty but still very small blend acceleration I think
[08:12:39] <les> ...running at 2 ips
[08:15:26] <Imperator_> i think artcam has problems with its surfaces on which it creates the tool pathes. the errors are atarting in the middle like beams
[08:16:00] <Imperator_> the errors are starting in the middle like beams
[08:16:32] <les> yes...I had never used a shape generated by sweeping a profile
[08:17:08] <Imperator_> normaly that has not to make problems
[08:17:15] <les> It's bad...but my machine/emc should be able to plan those motions and run them at full speed
[08:17:32] <Imperator_> and i saw the same effect at the flash demo at there homepage
[08:18:28] <les> the work looked ok due to the tool convolving the path
[08:18:39] <Imperator_> if i create tool pathes on STL surfaces i have the same problems with our Digma. It has a Siemens 840D controller
[08:18:54] <les> hmm
[08:19:21] <les> I still wonder why emc is slowing and jerking with this
[08:19:46] <Imperator_> it wants to follow precise the tool path. but with this edges it can do that only slowly
[08:22:30] <les> accel required=.03 in/s^2....accel available=15 in/s^2
[08:22:39] <les> by my calculations
[08:23:14] <les> I can turn it up a lot more...0.5g
[08:24:10] <Imperator_> make correct tool pathes that makes more sense :-)
[08:24:35] <les> better tool paths would be good
[08:26:07] <Imperator_> if you send me that plyline i can make you the tool path. But i can't make that spiral moves
[08:26:43] <Imperator_> in IGES or VDA format
[08:26:50] <les> it does have an accuracy/ chordal deviation parameter...
[08:26:59] <les> it was set to .001
[08:27:09] <les> may have to play with that
[08:28:25] <les> well I made the parts...it's just that this stuff didn't do the expensive carbide tool any good
[08:28:32] <les> chip load too low
[08:28:49] <les> it was a one time job
[08:29:24] <Imperator_> ok
[08:29:30] <les> but thanks
[08:29:40] <paul_c> les: How large is the final part ?
[08:29:41] <Imperator_> no problem
[08:29:56] <les> about 7.5 inches
[08:30:17] <paul_c> 190mm
[08:30:44] <les> about yeah
[08:30:56] <paul_c> A reasonable size for a test file...
[08:31:11] <les> want it?
[08:31:23] <paul_c> please...
[08:34:08] <paul_c> looks like quite a few very short segments
[08:34:22] <les> I was running it with the old planner
[08:34:34] <les> typical artcam file
[08:35:02] <paul_c> do you really need 0.0001 moves in Z
[08:35:37] <les> haha
[08:35:41] <les> no...
[08:35:44] <les> but...
[08:36:13] <les> you can clearly see a .0001 scratch in polished wood
[08:36:33] <les> if you are very accurate you have to sand less
[08:36:58] <les> sanding=75% of product cost in woodworking
[08:37:36] <les> anyway cradek sent me a screen shot of a blowup of the path and it is full of nasty little wiggles
[08:37:45] <les> but...
[08:38:08] <les> tha accel reqired to do them is very vvery low
[08:38:32] <les> required
[08:38:47] <paul_c> talking of wood....
[08:39:02] <paul_c> * paul_c has to go and beat up some MDF
[08:39:10] <les> segmentqueue only works with some jobs...
[08:39:13] <paul_c> be back in a bit...
[08:39:34] <les> this was mdf
[08:39:57] <les> $75 is what I charged for 2
[08:41:39] <les> oh...1/8 slot drill is the tool
[08:41:51] <les> .75 long
[08:42:23] <les> ball end would have been better...but didn't happen to have one
[08:42:30] <A-L-P-H-A> mdf = medium density fibre boards.
[08:42:38] <A-L-P-H-A> usually comes in sheets of 8x4.
[08:42:45] <A-L-P-H-A> varying thicknesses.
[08:42:49] <les> right
[08:43:06] <les> uuse it a lot for spoilboards etc
[08:43:09] <A-L-P-H-A> les, if you got an ikea near you, that kinda stuff.
[08:43:22] <les> yup
[08:43:41] <les> I do not use it for furniture....only solids
[08:43:44] <Imperator_> is ikea known in the US ?
[08:43:51] <les> yes
[08:43:57] <Imperator_> :-) cool
[08:44:12] <les> big furniture store/importer
[08:44:29] <A-L-P-H-A> www.ikea.com :) or was it www.ikeausa.com
[08:44:44] <les> afordable furniture (I am being nice here)
[08:44:52] <Imperator_> half of my furniture are bought from them :-)
[08:44:56] <A-L-P-H-A> ikea in Canada has resorted to luring you in, to eat their breakfast, and shop at the same time.
[08:45:03] <A-L-P-H-A> their breakfast is cheap...
[08:45:11] <les> I cannot make afordable furniture
[08:45:31] <les> I cannot even afford the stuff I make
[08:45:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't like ikea... cheap stuff. looks nice, but I just don't like it.
[08:45:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I feel that it'll fall apart any moment.
[08:45:49] <les> it is for $$$ rich people.
[08:45:54] <Imperator_> same here alpha
[08:46:24] <Imperator_> in the past it was that way, but now i think it is not bad
[08:46:40] <A-L-P-H-A> helped this girl move into her new appartment. And she had a couch form ikea... I swear, if it wasn't so bulky, I could have lift the thing myself... as you could lift up one side with 3 fingers.
[08:46:45] <les> But I do like MDF for fixtures and the like
[08:47:39] <les> the stuff I get is usually consistent to about .04 mm in thickness
[08:47:41] <A-L-P-H-A> I've seen some wall shelfs from ikea... they were decent. $40 for a shelf, with the front face as a mirror. It wasn't bad looking... just felt cheap to me still. Particle board.
[08:48:02] <A-L-P-H-A> les? laminant? or are we talking sheet metal?
[08:48:23] <les> well heheh...buy my stuff alpha
[08:48:33] <les> no just MDF 0.75 in
[08:48:35] <A-L-P-H-A> not a big fan of ikea's stuff. Looks good, feels cheap.
[08:48:42] <les> it is accurately sanded
[08:49:11] <A-L-P-H-A> Les, what do you make? got pictures?
[08:49:23] <les> getting link...
[08:50:46] <Imperator_> ok chiao folks late here
[08:51:01] <les> http://lmwatts.com/gallery.html
[08:51:08] <les> thanks for help
[08:52:33] <A-L-P-H-A> les, very elegant work... wanna send me perhaps a 'sample' jewelry box? :D
[08:52:43] <A-L-P-H-A> I think some girls would love me for it...
[08:52:48] <les> haha thank you
[08:53:07] <les> wanna send me some sample money? :)
[08:53:27] <A-L-P-H-A> Take monopoly money? Canadian money? [they look the same]
[08:53:32] <les> haw
[08:53:55] <les> the cnc mostly does signs
[08:54:29] <les> http://lmwatts.com/signwp.html
[08:54:52] <A-L-P-H-A> if I ever get around to making the backlash dissappear on the Y Axis (it's right now at 0.020") I'll start doing stuff with it.
[08:55:02] <A-L-P-H-A> my mills is messed up right now.
[08:55:53] <A-L-P-H-A> the lathe works mint though. :)
[08:56:20] <les> I am searching for an extra mill
[08:56:39] <les> bridgeport interact...something like that
[08:56:46] <A-L-P-H-A> ahh.
[08:56:52] <A-L-P-H-A> auctions are you friend.
[08:57:08] <A-L-P-H-A> seen a bridge port, go for $700CDN. Series 2.
[08:57:28] <les> yeah they are pretty much free if you can find them
[08:57:29] <A-L-P-H-A> was it decent shape too... just that shipping it from the stixs was the issue.
[08:57:42] <A-L-P-H-A> cause everyone's buying a CNC machine instead...
[08:57:49] <A-L-P-H-A> a new CNC machine isn't really that bad anyways.
[08:57:51] <A-L-P-H-A> heck.
[08:58:09] <les> old cnc with burned controls is very cheap
[08:58:22] <A-L-P-H-A> a ABS plastic free form lithography type machine is only $24,999USD.
[08:58:39] <A-L-P-H-A> shit, I'd take one with burned controlls.
[08:58:48] <A-L-P-H-A> throw some geckos in there, wham. done.
[08:59:06] <les> it's pretty easy
[08:59:06] <sxpert> A-L-P-H-A: the dude organizing the CCCCamp sells those in .de
[08:59:32] <A-L-P-H-A> sxpert, which the ABS plastic machine? or the geckos?
[09:00:02] <A-L-P-H-A> actually, the lying guys never sent me the information I requested on that machine.
[09:00:07] <sxpert> A-L-P-H-A: the ABS 3d sculpting machine
[09:00:22] <A-L-P-H-A> sxpert, lots ofplaces sell them now. :)
[09:00:37] <A-L-P-H-A> from $75K down to $25K in a matter of 2-3 years?
[09:01:19] <A-L-P-H-A> the issue is recapturing that investment... you'd need to charge like $50/hr for how many hours to recapture your initial investment back.
[09:01:26] <A-L-P-H-A> just not worth it...
[09:02:10] <les> I put $20k in materials and over a year full time into my gantry
[09:02:25] <les> ...and I must get $100/hr to run it
[09:03:00] <A-L-P-H-A> 500hrs just to cover the initial investment. RE: abs machine. PLUS materials.
[09:03:19] <A-L-P-H-A> really not worth it when I think about it. Though, I still would like to have the machine mind you. :D
[09:03:28] <les> About to start a big production run that will make ok money
[09:03:31] <A-L-P-H-A> les... how big is this machine?
[09:03:46] <A-L-P-H-A> does is handle 8x4 sheets with ease?
[09:04:07] <les> 5x5x2 feet 1000 lb moving mass metal capable
[09:04:29] <A-L-P-H-A> May I ask what's the spindle?
[09:04:48] <les> it is removable
[09:05:01] <les> right now a 3.25 hp router
[09:05:12] <les> looking to upgrade to 5-7 hp
[09:05:18] <A-L-P-H-A> cool... what are you using as ways?
[09:05:32] <les> 45mm THK
[09:05:47] <A-L-P-H-A> so, moving head? or moving part?
[09:05:55] <A-L-P-H-A> moving head I take it.
[09:05:55] <les> moving head
[09:06:42] <les> http://lmwatts.com/cnc.html
[09:06:43] <A-L-P-H-A> do you find you get enough clearance with a router? I mean the base of the router won't allow you get deep pockets if your bit is short.
[09:06:59] <les> it can be a problem yes
[09:07:17] <A-L-P-H-A> 2" steel sq. tubing for frame?
[09:07:23] <A-L-P-H-A> that's nice an solid.
[09:08:11] <les> I designed it to do metal but it is doing wood and plastic currently.
[09:09:02] <les> frame is a 2x2x1/4 space frame modeled with finite element analysis
[09:09:34] <les> but the ways rest on 2x6 solid 1018 steel
[09:10:08] <A-L-P-H-A> how hard was it to weld the frame square?
[09:10:09] <les> oops 2x4
[09:10:20] <les> about 2x6 including the ways
[09:10:46] <les> pretty easy...but I have made many.
[09:11:22] <les> I use a surveyor's transit to line it up for welding
[09:11:48] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got magnetic 90deg clamps, but I trust those like I trust American president.
[09:11:56] <les> haha
[09:12:20] <les> no I used welders heavy duty c clamps and braces
[09:12:58] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... I guess I could always just take a piece of string, and measure corner to corner. :D
[09:13:12] <A-L-P-H-A> if they're the same, it's square.
[09:13:39] <A-L-P-H-A> atleast in that 2d plane anyways
[09:13:52] <les> I got the frame good to about 1/32 with very careful tack welding
[09:14:13] <les> then it is scraped in where needed to 0.0005
[09:14:18] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm a beginner welder... I can fix metal chairs, and the welds are solid... just not pretty.
[09:14:21] <les> and ground
[09:14:24] <A-L-P-H-A> I couldn't smack them off with a hammer.
[09:15:07] <les> trick with big frames like mine is to avoid later warping due to stress
[09:15:08] <A-L-P-H-A> how'd you measure that over such a large distance?
[09:15:38] <les> I have an article on that...let me get it
[09:16:11] <les> http://lmwatts.com/shop.html
[09:16:34] <les> link on the bottom of the page
[09:16:54] <les> oops hit cap lock
[09:17:00] <les> haha
[09:19:23] <A-L-P-H-A> my thoughts to this, could be avoided, if I just bought some preground flat stock. The cost is more expensive, but not prohibitive.
[09:20:10] <les> depends on the accuracy you need
[09:20:29] <A-L-P-H-A> that stuff is usually 0.0005" isn't it?
[09:20:42] <A-L-P-H-A> I know preground drillrods are around 0.0005"
[09:21:01] <les> if you weld up ground stock two ways might be only 1/32 of coplanar
[09:21:29] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm...
[09:21:45] <les> also it warps loads when you drill way mounting holes etc
[09:21:57] <A-L-P-H-A> and if I just got stock that large? I could probably get the stock up to 8' without much issue. 12' may be harder.
[09:22:03] <A-L-P-H-A> ahh, true.
[09:22:11] <A-L-P-H-A> drilling mounting holes could be an issue.
[09:22:52] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... 3/4" tack it to the frame? shouldn't the size be enough to hold it's shape? [I'm just asking, cause I dn't know]
[09:23:05] <A-L-P-H-A> brb
[09:23:17] <les> with the grind/scrape method you can just use ordinary hot rolled
[09:23:44] <les> what you can do is grout ground pads to the frame with epoxy
[09:23:56] <les> the y axis on mine is that way
[09:24:17] <les> but I have not written an article about how to do it yet
[09:24:29] <les> it is also 0.0005 flat
[09:27:05] <les> You have to calculate deflections...I needed 100lbf/.001in at the spindle and that is what it took to get it
[09:39:33] <A-L-P-H-A> neat way of doing it without a grinding
[09:41:12] <les> I learned part of that from old machinery rebuilders in Chicago
[09:41:23] <les> takes about 2 days work
[09:42:28] <les> but easier that trucking it to a big way grinder
[09:42:34] <les> usually
[09:43:12] <les> saves a few k$ too...
[09:44:07] <les> I must go to town for a min and get some fast food....refrigerator is kinda empty
[09:44:13] <les> back in a bit
[09:44:38] <A-L-P-H-A> cool
[10:12:35] <jepler> so how similar is bdi rc46 to whatever the next one will be (rc50?)?
[10:14:01] <jepler> I'd like to get my software to work with bdi, but I have no experience so far with bdi
[10:15:32] <A-L-P-H-A> the man that could answer this, is probably asleep right now. as he's in Europe somewhere.
[10:15:58] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler, but as far as I know... not much of a difference, functionality is there... no major changes in Gcode tha tI know it.
[10:16:56] <paul_c> * paul_c is fighting with python exceptions
[10:17:31] <jepler> paul_c: I'd be happy to try to help, though I'll be called away to dinner very soon.
[10:17:50] <jepler> paul_c: /msg me your traceback if you like
[10:18:02] <paul_c> It's a case of finding what cased the exception...
[10:19:13] <jepler> Don't you get line numbers in the traceback?
[10:21:08] <jepler> well, dinner time .. I'll drop by later, to complain that I can't get BDI to work.
[10:23:17] <paul_c> * paul_c thinks he has the answer...
[10:23:40] <paul_c> The last error reads:
[10:24:00] <paul_c> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
[10:24:35] <paul_c> part of the string has a % in it...
[10:48:13] <jepler> I'm back. Did you find the problem with your format string yet?
[11:14:40] <paul_c> Is having a % in the string enough to raise an error ?
[11:59:07] <cradek> paul_c: "%d %d" % (a, b)
[11:59:10] <cradek> this is like printf
[11:59:23] <cradek> the number of % have to match the number of items in the tuple (a, b)
[13:06:54] <paul_c> Morning Dan
[13:08:45] <danfalck> hi paul
[13:09:34] <danfalck> yes, I'm actually here. Guarding the keyboard from the cat...
[13:11:44] <paul_c> Did you manage to get any photos for this new CD ?
[13:13:04] <danfalck> I got some good photos of Hal May's shop.
[13:13:28] <danfalck> I can send you a few via email
[13:14:34] <paul_c> any closeups of "Made with EMC" ?
[13:14:42] <danfalck> yes.
[13:14:58] <danfalck> a shot of one of his clocks
[13:15:19] <paul_c> Send them over and I'll add it to the list.
[13:15:39] <danfalck> ok
[13:17:27] <danfalck> do you want *.png *.jpg ?
[13:20:03] <paul_c> I can work with most formats.
[14:27:28] <asdfqweg2> Nanu Nanu!
[21:24:09] <alex_joni> hello...
[21:26:31] <paul_c> Morning Alex
[21:29:16] <alex_joni> it's afternoon ;)
[21:29:36] <alex_joni> I'm at work since 7 am... that was a loooong time ago
[21:29:49] <alex_joni> is there any way to delete not used branches?
[21:30:02] <paul_c> Nope
[21:30:59] <alex_joni> :(
[21:31:34] <alex_joni> I hope those are not important in any way... (like some max_branches)
[21:34:46] <paul_c> If we ever find out, I'll log a support request.
[21:36:00] <alex_joni> how's the deb stuff going?
[21:39:15] <paul_c> Sucessful install last night..
[21:39:39] <alex_joni> nice... can I download a image?
[21:40:19] <paul_c> no
[21:41:26] <paul_c> It installed, but a number of issues need to be fixed before anyone else can attempt a test install.
[21:41:45] <alex_joni> ahh.. ok
[21:41:56] <alex_joni> just remember to put me on the test-list
[21:42:16] <paul_c> A minor problem with the kernel that needs fixing...
[22:50:21] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is tired/bored...