#emc | Logs for 2004-11-02

[00:18:49] <alex_joni> sxpert: you like wireless?
[00:19:19] <sxpert> wireless ? as in wifi ?
[00:20:31] <alex_joni> yeah
[00:20:39] <alex_joni> as in 802.11x
[00:21:24] <sxpert> wwell, I'm working with it...
[00:21:45] <alex_joni> nice.. may I ask what?
[00:21:48] <sxpert> it's a tool. I use it when it makes sense
[00:22:01] <sxpert> link between the carpc and the home networl
[00:22:04] <sxpert> -l+k
[00:22:15] <alex_joni> carpc?
[00:22:23] <sxpert> yep, carpc
[00:22:32] <sxpert> as in car-pc...
[00:22:51] <alex_joni> I figured that...
[00:22:57] <sxpert> see http://www.navsys.org for details ;D
[00:22:57] <alex_joni> care to explain?
[00:22:59] <alex_joni> ok
[00:25:51] <alex_joni> that's your page/software?
[00:26:22] <sxpert> yesh
[00:26:51] <alex_joni> very nice...
[00:26:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni bows ;)
[00:26:58] <sxpert> heh
[00:27:54] <sxpert> I run it on an EPIA MII 12000 in the car.
[00:28:28] <alex_joni> EPIA MII ?
[00:28:34] <alex_joni> sounds like an sbc...
[00:28:41] <alex_joni> not sure though...
[00:29:24] <sxpert> it is... http://linitx.com/product_info.php?cPath=12_41&products_id=414
[00:29:54] <alex_joni> expensive?
[00:30:22] <sxpert> the price is on the page... 150 UKP tax included
[00:30:31] <alex_joni> are you running from CF or HDD?
[00:30:43] <sxpert> 40G laptop HDD.
[00:31:06] <alex_joni> 2.5'' i guess
[00:31:10] <sxpert> yeah
[00:31:13] <alex_joni> nice...
[00:31:25] <alex_joni> not passive cooled... right?
[00:31:31] <sxpert> need space to store all those ogg.
[00:31:52] <sxpert> no,there's a fan, but when you dump the thing in the trunk, you can't hear anything
[00:32:10] <alex_joni> yeah.. I'm not worried about noise
[00:32:18] <sxpert> the power supply is a fanless DC/DC converter
[00:32:24] <alex_joni> that's nice
[00:32:41] <alex_joni> I like fanless... you don't get surprises
[00:32:47] <alex_joni> when fans brake down
[00:32:52] <sxpert> it's much more efficient than using a 12->230v then a normal atx PSU
[00:33:33] <sxpert> the motherboard only has one fan, on top of the processor. you can also get fanless versions, but they're not as powerful...
[00:33:55] <sxpert> so the trick is to figure out a path for the air to go through all the things on the pc...
[00:33:57] <alex_joni> surely not 1.2 Gigs
[00:34:06] <alex_joni> I've seen 800MHz fanless
[00:34:10] <sxpert> yeah, that one has a fan
[00:34:44] <alex_joni> I have an older sbc right now.. an Geode GX1-fanless
[00:34:56] <sxpert> some german company sells that motherboard in a fanless case, using heat tubes connected to the aluminium case
[00:35:12] <sxpert> using a soekris as a router here
[00:35:46] <sxpert> ok
[00:35:57] <sxpert> * sxpert goes back to his home cinema...
[01:14:24] <alex_joni> * alex_joni prods paul_c
[01:20:29] <paul_c> Que ?
[01:25:48] <alex_joni> have you ever heard about monty?
[01:25:57] <alex_joni> http://www.jibble.org/montyquotes.php
[01:26:05] <alex_joni> we should get one...
[01:28:48] <paul_c> I think not...
[01:29:20] <alex_joni> i was kidding ;)
[01:29:22] <alex_joni> anyways...
[01:33:32] <cradek> sxpert: I hate to ask a dumb question but where do the map data come from? Is the data free?
[01:34:13] <paul_c> map data for ?
[01:34:44] <cradek> paul_c: navsys
[01:42:50] <cradek> well I got emc2 to sort-of run my stepper machine last night
[01:43:08] <cradek> I loved how I could configure the parallel port pins in the hal config file
[01:44:36] <cradek> it does not run the machine smoothly though
[01:44:43] <cradek> don't know if it's my configuration, emc2, or rtlinux problems
[01:45:17] <paul_c> Is EMC smooth & stable on the same hardware ?
[01:45:19] <alex_joni> hmmm... define smoothly
[01:46:36] <cradek> yes emc1 works great
[01:46:54] <cradek> smooth: "a stepper makes a continuous tone when jogging"
[01:47:18] <cradek> not smooth: "the stepper sounds like it has rocks in it" (I assume the step pulses are not equally spaced)
[01:54:09] <alex_joni> what mod are you running?
[01:54:18] <alex_joni> freqmod?
[01:54:59] <alex_joni> standard emc2 from cvs? (then it's stepgen)
[01:55:10] <cradek> emc2 -rauto_configure_0_1
[01:55:23] <cradek> it is EMCMOT=motmod.o
[01:55:28] <cradek> it's the only one that seemed to work
[01:55:40] <cradek> unfortunately the machine is off so I can't get to it
[01:55:47] <cradek> (that was teh default in the emc.ini)
[02:01:54] <alex_joni> motmod is clear
[02:06:18] <cradek> what's "clear" mean?
[02:31:58] <alex_joni> well.. I meant motmod is supposed to be
[02:32:24] <alex_joni> I did play a little with freqgen and stepgen directly (with hal)
[02:32:34] <alex_joni> and figured out how to tune my axis
[02:32:40] <alex_joni> and after that I set up emc2
[02:45:05] <ferel> ferel is now known as erDiZz
[02:45:33] <paul_c> Afternoon erDiZz
[02:45:47] <erDiZz> paul_c: afternoon
[02:46:10] <erDiZz> I'm all in deep thoughts, men..
[02:47:02] <erDiZz> it's about my (small) project.. I'm writing a CNC
[02:47:56] <erDiZz> .. i.e., its software part, I did it for free until now, though there were people who was interested in the projiect
[02:48:03] <paul_c> For serveo or stepper ?
[02:48:15] <erDiZz> paul_c: stepper
[02:48:26] <erDiZz> in fact, I'm not so advanced in NC
[02:48:27] <paul_c> Linux or Doze ?
[02:48:32] <erDiZz> paul_c: Linux
[02:48:40] <paul_c> Right answer ;)
[02:48:48] <erDiZz> paul_c: pathed by myself (no RTL, no RTAI)
[02:49:26] <erDiZz> well, to tell it quick, since last week I'm alone with my program
[02:49:55] <erDiZz> it almost works (it does all I want it to do, though it's not yet enogh to machine a part)
[02:50:40] <erDiZz> the main trouble is that I have no access to any real machine:| oh how could I hope it works if it's been tested only virtually
[02:51:58] <paul_c> * paul_c needs to get the Sherline plugged in again...
[02:52:17] <erDiZz> paul_c: you use EMC, don't you?
[02:52:30] <paul_c> A little bit
[02:52:42] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is laughing...
[02:52:45] <erDiZz> paul_c: how do you use it?
[02:53:24] <paul_c> not quite sure what you mean...
[02:53:25] <erDiZz> in fact, I'd like to ask, what is EMC capable of and what are its limitations
[02:53:54] <paul_c> OK..
[02:54:13] <paul_c> EMC can control up to six axis
[02:54:50] <paul_c> either a conventional mill, a Stewart platform, or Scara type
[02:55:23] <paul_c> There are some routines to handle other types of parallel kinimatics...
[02:55:43] <erDiZz> hmm..
[02:56:45] <paul_c> The ability to control servos as well as steppers is one advantage
[02:57:04] <erDiZz> really, I know nothing about servos
[02:57:31] <erDiZz> it's not my speciality so I study the subject by demand..
[02:58:55] <erDiZz> sounds pretty sad..
[02:59:14] <erDiZz> well, what about connection to the outside?
[02:59:44] <erDiZz> there are some words about parallel port and I've seen discussions about ather ways here?
[02:59:45] <paul_c> You can use parallel ports, or dedicated IO cards
[03:00:13] <erDiZz> paul_c: is there a good GUI
[03:00:15] <erDiZz> ?
[03:00:35] <paul_c> 'pends what you mean by "good"
[03:01:00] <erDiZz> well, where I can see the progress of machining (graphically)
[03:01:06] <cradek> well there are several ... guis
[03:01:09] <paul_c> There are several GUI interfaces written in Tcl/Tk and also C/C++
[03:01:52] <paul_c> even an ncurses based interface if you don't want to use X
[03:02:06] <erDiZz> paul_c: how do they interact with 'the core'?
[03:02:11] <alex_joni> nml
[03:02:19] <erDiZz> ('the core' is what I call all that's not an interface)
[03:02:31] <paul_c> That depends on what you call the core
[03:03:02] <paul_c> there is the realtime code at the heart of EMC
[03:03:04] <erDiZz> ehm, lets say, if I want to write a new interface, what should I do?
[03:03:23] <paul_c> then there is the task controller that runs in user space
[03:03:55] <erDiZz> hm.. what I did is a CORBA objects at both sides
[03:04:10] <paul_c> in C/C++ ?
[03:04:18] <erDiZz> yes
[03:05:10] <erDiZz> though, it all depends in the ORB - I've chosen omniORB and it's only for C++
[03:05:27] <erDiZz> another ORB - other langauges
[03:05:44] <paul_c> CORBA is not of much use with EMC
[03:06:15] <paul_c> unless you want to re-impliment the message passing library
[03:07:49] <erDiZz> btw, how wide is EMC used?
[03:08:05] <erDiZz> say, in controlled machines
[03:08:18] <paul_c> difficult to say...
[03:08:34] <paul_c> there are users right round the world
[03:08:49] <erDiZz> and the forward question is about EMC2.. does it worth to wait for it to hack in?
[03:09:32] <erDiZz> if I'm not mistaken, it was planned to be ready this autumn..
[03:09:45] <erDiZz> though I don't know how it really goes
[03:09:48] <paul_c> There is no finish date for emc2
[03:10:12] <erDiZz> paul_c: does it at least work?
[03:10:22] <paul_c> dunno
[03:10:43] <erDiZz> hmm
[03:11:09] <alex_joni> depends on what you mean by working...
[03:11:15] <erDiZz> probably, the right thing for me is to split it all into parts and release it under GPL or something
[03:11:23] <alex_joni> it is useable.. (stepper commands, and such)
[03:11:34] <alex_joni> IO isn't working yet (simio for now)
[03:11:44] <erDiZz> alex_joni: usable is quite enogh
[03:12:13] <erDiZz> oh, I've forgot:)
[03:12:35] <erDiZz> hmm I've read that EMC uses 100ns-intervals to control it
[03:12:49] <erDiZz> does it make any limits on its operation?
[03:12:56] <erDiZz> maybe some inconviniences?
[03:13:33] <alex_joni> well.. it has been for some time useable
[03:13:34] <erDiZz> (as I know, IRQ-clean systems like RTAI have 50ns random latincy)
[03:13:51] <paul_c> There is no way of getting 100nSec timings with (most) processors
[03:14:19] <erDiZz> paul_c: 100 microseconds
[03:14:27] <paul_c> that's better
[03:14:55] <alex_joni> thing is... in emc there is a RT-thread that outputs commands to the parport
[03:14:58] <paul_c> I have run the stepper task at 7.5uSec
[03:15:13] <erDiZz> well, ns = microseconds (I think you write it so, cus if I'd use russian symbols I'd write "mks")
[03:15:30] <alex_joni> and it depends on the processor how fast that is
[03:15:53] <erDiZz> ehh
[03:16:09] <erDiZz> what I did with the kernel is not usual
[03:16:15] <alex_joni> actually there are more threads...
[03:16:24] <alex_joni> at different speeds
[03:16:39] <erDiZz> I've freed the timer and let the kernel use RTC for scheduling
[03:17:21] <erDiZz> with a free timer we can get more frequencies than with a 100microsec intervals
[03:17:25] <alex_joni> but it isn't very difficult to write a emc2-driver in order to output pulses on something else than the parport (e.g. some PCI-IO)
[03:17:59] <erDiZz> well, it's easy in my case too
[03:18:12] <erDiZz> but in fact there's no one yet..
[03:18:13] <alex_joni> there was some info on G2002 if I remember it corectly... right paul?
[03:18:33] <alex_joni> that's a USB-device used for pulse-generation...
[03:18:46] <paul_c> Not seen any details about the G2002
[03:19:08] <alex_joni> or some other device to do that... don't remember what it was ...
[03:19:14] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is trying to remember
[03:19:48] <erDiZz> one more question. rather important..
[03:20:06] <erDiZz> ehm don't know how to say:|
[03:20:50] <erDiZz> well, could it be enough just to take two steppers without the machine and debug on them?
[03:21:01] <erDiZz> do that at the end I can tell "It works"?
[03:21:08] <erDiZz> or it's nto enogh at all?
[03:21:50] <paul_c> just the mtors would be enough to show if the base code works
[03:21:52] <erDiZz> .. so that I'd better go find somebody interested who can offer a particular application to all this
[03:22:16] <alex_joni> you could play with hal directly with the steppers (I did that)
[03:22:33] <erDiZz> paul_c: well, then I say "Base code works!" - if its open source, has it any future?
[03:23:17] <alex_joni> * alex_joni 's note: HAL is the hardware-core of emc2 (Hardware Abstraction Layer)
[03:24:05] <erDiZz> alex_joni: hal is not the case for me.. It relies on RTAI, isn't it?
[03:24:24] <paul_c> RTAI or RTLinux
[03:24:34] <erDiZz> I'm going to make my kernel patch usable as well
[03:24:56] <erDiZz> "yet another real time alternative" - use mode interfaces are almost ready
[03:25:12] <alex_joni> I see... well maybe you can put rtapi on top of your RT-patch
[03:25:17] <erDiZz> in fact, they are ready but are not general enogh to meet any task
[03:25:49] <alex_joni> RTAPI makes it transparent to the code what lies underneath (rtai or rtlinux)
[03:25:59] <erDiZz> alex_joni: I thoght I'd use it exclusively but now think that there's too much noise about real time in linux and it worths publishing
[03:26:26] <alex_joni> erDiZz: I was thinking too about starting something from scratch...
[03:26:41] <erDiZz> ah again, it's too special.. I don't think RTAPI could be supported 'as is'
[03:26:56] <alex_joni> but then I found EMC... and I realised that there have been a LOT of time put into it
[03:27:13] <erDiZz> alex_joni: a _lot_, really?
[03:27:22] <erDiZz> I
[03:27:25] <alex_joni> some 7-8 years
[03:27:51] <alex_joni> by a lot of people
[03:27:52] <alex_joni> ;)
[03:27:57] <erDiZz> yeah..
[03:28:02] <alex_joni> it started at NIST...
[03:28:17] <erDiZz> doesn't compare with 'one year of myself'
[03:28:30] <alex_joni> that's what I thought too...
[03:28:49] <alex_joni> you do get a better inside info if you write it yourself...
[03:29:03] <alex_joni> but... that doesn't mean it runs better ;)
[03:30:43] <erDiZz> the fact is that today it's time for me to decide: ah, I'll get to the end, ot to say "well, I've studied the linux kernel, distributed systems, some cool kits like GTK+ etc etc" and go do something not so high in the skies
[03:30:49] <paul_c> One advantage of EMC - The various parts can be run on seperate computers
[03:31:24] <paul_c> some of it will even run on a M$ box (like the GUI)
[03:31:45] <erDiZz> paul_c: it's implied if you speak about corba or smth
[03:37:52] <ferel> ferel is now known as _erDiZz
[03:39:04] <_erDiZz> our hostel internet channel rocks
[03:39:20] <_erDiZz> ..sorry
[03:53:22] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is gone...
[05:05:59] <robin_z> ... m
[05:06:05] <robin_z> ... me ...
[05:06:09] <robin_z> meeep!
[05:06:33] <robin_z> telnet: towel.blinkenlights.bl
[05:06:37] <robin_z> telnet: towel.blinkenlights.nl
[05:16:25] <cradek> I've seen this
[05:16:29] <cradek> it's hilarious
[10:29:23] <robin_z> leaving?
[10:29:34] <robin_z> so soon? but Ionly just got here!
[12:47:57] <ottos> Good day gents.
[17:53:42] <zwisk> greetings alex...
[17:53:45] <zwisk> Just got your email...
[17:54:02] <zwisk> Alas, it's 11:45pm here, so I can't chat at the moment.
[17:54:48] <zwisk> g'night, all...
[18:17:51] <alex_joni> gnight... hope you're not too mad ;)
[21:10:15] <alex_joni> hello paul_c
[21:12:58] <paul_c> Morning Alex
[21:38:59] <alex_joni> how are you?
[21:39:10] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just got back.. was away for a while...
[22:07:26] <paul_c> Oh boy... Nearly dinner time.
[22:37:54] <alex_joni> dinner time rulez ;)
[22:38:14] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is waiting for his dinner time... usually around 7PM ;)
[22:42:25] <alex_joni> paul_c: say when back...
[23:58:27] <paul_c> * paul_c is back