#emc | Logs for 2004-10-26

[01:53:59] <CIA-6> 03paul_c * 10emc2/directory.map: Updated the map with i18n suggestion
[02:31:12] <paul_c> Hi Ray
[02:32:10] <rayh> Hi Paul
[02:32:27] <rayh> My traversing routines went clear to hell yesterday.
[02:32:36] <rayh> Rebuilding the whole thing here.
[02:33:04] <paul_c> You mean the ISO I rebuilt is borked ?
[02:36:22] <rayh> No everything is good except tcl/smini.
[02:37:24] <paul_c> I will still need to rebuild the ISO then...
[02:38:14] <rayh> Oh. Yes. They can test the install with what's there but I need to finish more. Not slept since days now.
[02:38:25] <rayh> Gotta quit doing this.
[02:39:29] <paul_c> 36 hour days are not good.
[02:40:15] <rayh> very counterproductive.
[02:40:25] <rayh> But dragging my tracks out.
[02:41:52] <paul_c> Had a quick look at i18n support within tickle
[02:42:10] <paul_c> Doesn't look to hard to implement
[02:42:25] <paul_c> Once we have some translations to work with.
[02:43:00] <rayh> Can we library each language and trigger from english like emc_mode which returns auto ...
[02:44:32] <paul_c> Even easier than that - Tcl uses the LANG system variables to select which language to use
[02:45:06] <rayh> So how do we connect "auto" to the language stuff?
[02:46:43] <paul_c> for the menu stuff ?
[02:47:25] <rayh> For all of it.
[02:47:48] <rayh> We use stuff like showMode from the emc update loop.
[02:48:13] <rayh> All of the stuff being sent to and returned from emcsh would have to be translated.
[02:50:32] <paul_c> Hmmm.... I had been looking at things like error messages...
[02:51:17] <paul_c> Will have to look at the interaction of tkemc/emcsh/emc a bit more.
[02:51:23] <rayh> We tried error message and menu lookup tables several years ago. Tripped over emcsh.
[02:52:23] <paul_c> emcsh would have to be done using gettext (part of the glibc library)
[02:52:42] <paul_c> as would the error messages from the interp.
[02:53:52] <paul_c> The worst part will be going through all the code and selecting the translatable strings.
[02:54:19] <rayh> But then you'll wind up with the nightmare of not knowing how a specific widget is going to work with the new language.
[02:54:50] <rayh> radiobuttons for example What's the varname and value?
[02:55:24] <paul_c> varname and value are internal to the GUI
[02:55:58] <paul_c> it is only error messages and on-screen text that needs to be translated
[02:57:02] <rayh> But if gettext is translating auto. We can not use emc_mode as a signaler for other widgets.
[02:57:07] <cradek> in our commercial i18nized app, we print errors both localized and in english. It makes it possible for us to make sense of errors that are emailed, faxed, etc. to us.
[02:57:28] <rayh> Good plan.
[02:58:03] <paul_c> I think I see where you are going with your concerns about i18n
[02:58:27] <rayh> The issue with emcsh is that we use the returns from many of the commands as the if variable.
[02:59:13] <rayh> We also use these as the name of the variable or it's value in many of the sliders, check and radio buttons.
[02:59:28] <paul_c> Let me do some changes in a branch and we can see if/where things go tits up (if att all)
[03:00:15] <rayh> You go! I'm just about fed up with tits up -- all of 'em.
[03:04:55] <paul_c> On a lighter note - It would appear that the RTAI group has picked up on, and is recommending the BDI CDs now.
[03:08:56] <rayh> Fantastic.
[03:09:14] <rayh> That will extend EMC's reach.
[03:10:04] <rayh> I wonder if the 2.6 is greatly reducing the need for Hard Real Time?
[03:11:25] <paul_c> not at all - latencies in the 2.6 kernels are still up in the 100uSec area even with MontaVista's patches
[03:11:50] <paul_c> (according to some of the guys over in Italy)
[03:12:25] <paul_c> Gotta go and do Tea.
[03:13:28] <rayh> Catch you later.
[06:19:46] <paul_c> Yo Alex
[06:20:24] <alex_joni> yo
[06:21:21] <paul_c> Do you have a box set up using your locale ?
[06:21:47] <alex_joni> actually I'm in a hotel right now...
[06:22:06] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is fighting with the cellphone...
[06:23:07] <paul_c> * paul_c is messing around with i18n
[06:23:38] <alex_joni> seen that ;)
[06:24:20] <paul_c> Small error in my note
[06:24:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni finally got to send a simple e-mail... took me half an hour :(
[06:24:49] <paul_c> localedir = $(datadir)/locale
[06:25:08] <paul_c> No $(package) tagged on the end
[06:25:37] <alex_joni> I had no time to dig through the cvs stuff... but I've read the irc log
[06:25:50] <alex_joni> you talking to ray avout i18n
[06:26:06] <paul_c> yes
[06:26:20] <alex_joni> btw.. I missed steve stallings on sunday :(
[06:26:37] <alex_joni> to talk about the page & server
[06:26:49] <paul_c> Steve said web site was under Ray's control
[06:27:03] <alex_joni> ohhh.. then ray ;)
[06:27:24] <alex_joni> I talked to my webhoster
[06:27:42] <alex_joni> he said he would sponsor 50MB's
[06:28:26] <paul_c> what sort of bandwidth ?
[06:28:48] <alex_joni> so... if enyone wants to check out how it's done.. I can give user/pass for testing
[06:30:06] <alex_joni> lemme ask
[06:30:17] <alex_joni> did you ever try cpanel?
[06:30:30] <paul_c> I'm not sure Ray would want to move unless the propposed host can offer higher b/w and/or more space
[06:30:41] <paul_c> than Steve is offering.
[06:31:21] <alex_joni> i see... it was just a thought...
[06:31:43] <paul_c> but you would need to ask Ray to be sure
[06:31:49] <alex_joni> will do
[06:32:08] <alex_joni> I really found it to be flexible ;)
[06:32:15] <paul_c> I would wait a week or two though
[06:32:45] <paul_c> He is under a lot of stress at the moment
[06:33:08] <alex_joni> sure..
[06:33:24] <alex_joni> I'll focus on autoconf & install issues...
[06:33:44] <alex_joni> I think I'll scrap emc on doze stuff..
[06:33:55] <alex_joni> didn't really compile...
[06:34:08] <alex_joni> linker issues ... aaargh
[06:34:31] <paul_c> Missing tcl ?
[06:34:36] <alex_joni> nope
[06:34:42] <alex_joni> missing an obj
[06:35:03] <alex_joni> or some entrypoint to consoleMain_thingy
[06:35:06] <paul_c> a common one ?
[06:35:14] <alex_joni> emcsh i think
[06:35:31] <alex_joni> the .dev files are not 100% ok
[06:35:51] <alex_joni> it compiled ok, after some hours ;)
[06:36:02] <alex_joni> but I can't link the exe...
[06:36:43] <paul_c> Fred Proctor would be the one to ask about that..
[06:36:58] <alex_joni> next time I'll see him ;;)
[06:37:29] <alex_joni> anyways.. linuxis the way to go...
[06:38:55] <alex_joni> gotta crash... I'm pretty done...
[06:40:11] <asdfqwega> 'Allo, paul
[06:40:37] <paul_c> Hi Tom
[06:42:21] <alex_joni> g'night
[06:52:55] <asdfqwega> paul: still interested in have a few copies of the no-cat-farts etching?
[06:54:45] <asdfqwega> Man, you know tired when you type like second language English is.
[06:55:34] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega prods Paul
[06:59:45] <paul_c> ow
[07:00:05] <paul_c> what-the-eck-was-that-for ?
[07:00:45] <asdfqwega> A question, that's what :)
[07:01:05] <paul_c> OK..Shoot
[07:01:36] <asdfqwega> paul: still interested in have a few copies of the no-cat-farts etching?
[07:02:04] <paul_c> a couple would be fun, sure..
[07:02:11] <asdfqwega> Ok.
[07:02:27] <asdfqwega> I'll let you know when they're done
[07:03:01] <asdfqwega> I was just surprised yesterday, when you asked <g>
[07:03:27] <paul_c> * paul_c collects things "Made by EMC"
[07:03:55] <asdfqwega> Then I thought you weren't serious when you said 10^6...
[07:04:27] <paul_c> that was a missprint
[07:04:45] <paul_c> 10^-1
[07:05:43] <asdfqwega> Well, I'm probably going to be doing more coding here, in the next couple weeks
[07:06:28] <asdfqwega> A couple more scripts to work with my laser, and I'm probably going to make something better than the "ncutils" that's with the cvs of emc
[07:06:53] <asdfqwega> I tried using 'shiftcnc', and it mangled my program :(
[07:07:37] <asdfqwega> I haven't tried looking, but is python on the BDI-Live?
[07:07:43] <paul_c> * paul_c needs to get more organised with his coding
[07:08:09] <paul_c> Python certainly is on Live
[07:08:30] <asdfqwega> Good
[07:09:32] <asdfqwega> Well, sun is shining...few enough days like this left, I'd better go do something.
[07:09:43] <asdfqwega> Talk with you later
[07:10:12] <paul_c> OK
[07:11:19] <paul_c> Now... Is picnet here to lurk or talk ?
[07:13:41] <les> lurk I think
[07:14:29] <paul_c> Hi Les
[07:14:38] <les> hey paul
[07:14:51] <les> nice day today...it was hard to work
[07:15:09] <les> about 25c and sunny
[07:15:16] <les> nice fall colors
[07:15:23] <paul_c> "work" what's that ?
[07:15:54] <les> it's what I am doing 7 days a week..and I need a break bad
[07:16:36] <les> I was on the computer making excuses to ITW Switches
[07:16:52] <les> and my excuses are getting pretty lame
[07:17:06] <les> I have "oversold my services"
[07:17:28] <paul_c> * paul_c hands Les a copy of the BOFH excuse book
[07:17:41] <les> i need it
[07:17:54] <les> Have trid to hire a sander here
[07:17:59] <les> no joy yet
[07:18:17] <les> I need to be doing engineering not sanding
[07:18:47] <paul_c> * paul_c needs to get a work visa
[07:19:11] <les> we can work on that
[07:19:45] <les> I have to get these stepper test boxes out fast or they are gonna get pissed
[07:20:31] <les> also they want me in Chicago NOW
[07:20:48] <les> and I have a big carved sign backlog
[07:20:52] <paul_c> Just as the cold weather is setting in..
[07:20:54] <les> can't say no
[07:21:27] <les> it's getting a little chilly there yes
[07:21:40] <les> no snow cover though
[07:22:35] <les> the snow is usually on the ground all the time from lat november to feb or march
[07:23:26] <les> But Ray gets much more snow due to being between lakes superior and michigan
[07:23:45] <paul_c> I was suprised to find snow still lying in June over in SoCal
[07:24:04] <les> in the high sierra yes
[07:24:17] <les> only snow free in august
[07:24:46] <paul_c> even got snowed on over in the Bristlecone NP
[07:25:13] <les> I remember a long time ago over a foot in London
[07:25:44] <paul_c> * paul_c is lucky to see more than an inch in Norfolk
[07:26:31] <les> well ...have to go rake a few leaves.... should have a couple thousand cubic feet (fluffed up)
[07:26:44] <les> later
[07:32:59] <CIA-6> 03zwisk 07auto_configure_0_1 * 10emc2/ (Makefile Makefile.inc.in configure configure.in):
[07:32:59] <CIA-6> Fix for autodetecting KERNEL_VERS for non-trivial version.h files
[07:32:59] <CIA-6> Addition of early i18n support, including --with-locale-dir=
[07:32:59] <CIA-6> Addition of make install_po target for installing i18n .po files
[07:32:59] <CIA-6> Addition of UFLAGS for locale support, as per paul_c's request
[07:33:26] <paul_c> zwisk !
[07:55:06] <CIA-6> 03paul_c 07auto_configure_0_1 * 10emc2/configure.in: Correct an error in the original request...
[07:58:09] <CIA-6> 03paul_c 07auto_configure_0_1 * 10emc2/configure.in: And also fix it when --with-locale-dir is given.
[08:08:35] <CIA-6> 03paul_c 07auto_configure_0_1 * 10emc2/Makefile: Add a comment to the top level Makefile.
[09:08:24] <zwisk> woops... sorry... didn't mean to check in errors! :)
[09:21:13] <les> hey paul
[09:23:35] <les> oh...I see paul is finally asleep
[09:23:48] <asdfqwega> Les: which part of the world are you in?
[09:24:00] <les> georgia, usa
[09:24:14] <les> and you?
[09:24:20] <asdfqwega> Ohio, USA
[09:24:30] <les> oh haha pretty close
[09:24:47] <asdfqwega> I was reading the backlog here, and how you needed sanders...
[09:25:00] <les> yeah
[09:25:50] <les> I did a small qualifying run of cherry turkey calls on the cnc
[09:26:16] <les> they turned out so good that I was awarded all production
[09:26:21] <asdfqwega> !
[09:26:30] <asdfqwega> good or bad?
[09:26:46] <les> but like most woodworking the labor content is 75% sanding (thanks to cnc)
[09:27:21] <asdfqwega> Hm...sanding what kind of shape?
[09:27:29] <les> So for the next orders I have to get a guy in here so I can do engineering
[09:28:04] <les> round like a hockey puck....done on a motor/brake spin lathe
[09:28:23] <les> www.dynamiccalls.com
[09:29:19] <asdfqwega> And you're cutting the wood, how? Lathe bit, or tool-post grinder?
[09:30:04] <asdfqwega> I know an old man who makes EXCELLENT pool queues on a lathe...his tolerances are +-0.0002
[09:30:30] <les> my large format cnc router cuts them. Right now it takes 90 seconds but I have not optimized the code. I can get it down to 30 seconds I think
[09:31:07] <les> My machine is mapped out to 0.0005 but I hardly need it in this case
[09:31:29] <asdfqwega> Ah, with a router...yeah, you would need sanding afterwards
[09:32:15] <les> right...Its pretty smooth off the router but need a little touch up and sanding between finish coats
[09:34:06] <les> So i'm here standing with 320 grit sandpaper in my hand when I have $15k of automation robotics to finish and ship...
[09:35:34] <les> I am working 7 days a week and I can't do that for long without going zonkers
[09:36:06] <asdfqwega> Wish I could help, but I'm a ways away :/
[09:36:29] <asdfqwega> I had another question, since you were talking about lasers before...
[09:36:36] <les> shoot
[09:37:07] <asdfqwega> Now, I have a 15W laser with a focal lens with a 1.75" FL
[09:37:25] <asdfqwega> I've been trying to cut wood with it
[09:37:43] <asdfqwega> I was wondering if I might need a differnt FL for cutting
[09:37:53] <les> co2?
[09:37:58] <asdfqwega> I was hoping to cut 1/4"
[09:37:59] <asdfqwega> yes
[09:39:57] <les> A longer focal length would penetrate somewhat more... but deep cutting requires that the material is physically blown away so that it does not occlude
[09:40:10] <les> might be tough with 15w
[09:40:21] <les> I think 50w min for 1/4
[09:40:38] <les> YAG can do a bit better
[09:40:44] <asdfqwega> Heh...I've tried that with shop air, and with some things it tends to fan a fire
[09:40:54] <les> yup
[09:41:45] <les> higher power especially with pulsing tends to almost explosively blast out the vapors that occlude the beam
[09:42:57] <les> what is your len material?
[09:43:04] <les> lens
[09:43:07] <asdfqwega> Well, such improvements are currently out of my reach, but it's something to plan for.
[09:43:20] <asdfqwega> ZnSe, coated, I think
[09:43:24] <les> k
[09:43:34] <asdfqwega> Amber-coloured, right?
[09:43:39] <les> I used gallium arsenide mostly
[09:43:42] <les> yeah
[09:44:25] <les> I would crack a lens about daily with 2000w
[09:44:35] <les> just a speck of dust would do it
[09:44:58] <asdfqwega> Yes, robin_sz told me about that...the thermal shock
[09:45:49] <les> Once I recall the shift supervisor removed the mirror and the laser was on (he was not the brightest)
[09:46:11] <les> and the wall caught on fire 150 ft away ha
[09:46:43] <asdfqwega> heh...I was reading stories like that in Sam's Laser FAQ
[09:47:08] <les> saw a bit of red streaks across faces too
[09:47:11] <asdfqwega> He's lucky he didn't pass his hand through the beam
[09:47:19] <asdfqwega> ?!
[09:47:26] <les> not smart
[09:47:39] <asdfqwega> Darwin Award nominee
[09:48:05] <les> I finally roughly sandblasted the aluminum table so the reflections diverged more
[09:48:20] <asdfqwega> Good idea
[09:48:40] <les> 10.6 micron needs a very rough surface to be lambertian
[09:49:21] <les> like an Ra of 50 micron or so
[09:49:26] <asdfqwega> due to the long wavelength, it doesn't interact much with small surface features
[09:49:35] <les> that's about .002" roughness
[09:49:47] <les> yup
[09:50:29] <les> anything less than a half wavelength and it's a shiny mirror
[09:51:39] <les> but all this was crude compared to your setup really
[09:52:03] <les> it was just raster scanning with etched brass templates
[09:52:05] <asdfqwega> Were you at the last EMC Fest?
[09:52:31] <asdfqwega> No, my setup is rather crude
[09:52:33] <les> I was sick and could not make it sadly
[09:53:10] <les> but Fred proctor, JMK, Paul Corner , and others make it down here a good bit
[09:54:09] <asdfqwega> I've never asked, but what is it that everybody does, to travel as much as they do?
[09:54:31] <les> I try to be a test bed for new emc stuff...and I am moving over half a ton of iron with it at very high speeds
[09:55:07] <les> to travel? spend money I guess
[09:55:29] <les> I think Paul is going to get over here very soon
[09:56:16] <les> I have some industrial applications for emc that I am trying to sell
[09:56:17] <asdfqwega> Myself, I need to make some money with my laser soon
[09:56:42] <les> Paul is very smart and could help a lot
[09:57:03] <les> hmmm cnc laser
[09:57:13] <les> awards and plaques are good
[09:57:23] <les> stuff with acrylic is good
[09:58:08] <les> short focal length and you can make images buried deep in acrylic
[09:58:12] <asdfqwega> I don't know that I could etch brass directly, but I've read about painted brass and anodized aluminum
[09:58:14] <les> not on the surface
[09:58:37] <asdfqwega> Ooo, I didn't know that one
[09:58:55] <les> bare brass and al are pretty reflective at 10.6
[09:59:17] <les> steel absorbs well
[09:59:25] <les> as do most all organics
[10:01:41] <asdfqwega> The acrylic idea would be nice, but I'd have to change my lens...and I'm not going to tamper with my laser assembly just yet
[10:02:09] <asdfqwega> As it is, I just rebuilt the coolant circulation system...
[10:02:19] <les> some have servoed the focal length to make 3-d sculpture and pictures in large acrylic blocks
[10:02:45] <les> creates internal fractures
[10:03:14] <les> but... I think that is mostly YAG
[10:03:30] <les> 10.6 would not penetrate very far
[10:04:02] <asdfqwega> Yeah, I thought acrylic absorbed it
[10:04:10] <les> pretty well
[10:04:31] <les> but very nice effects...it cuts clean
[10:04:50] <les> nice for plaques and such
[10:04:55] <asdfqwega> I'll have to play with that a bit
[10:05:08] <asdfqwega> So much to do, so little time
[10:05:13] <les> yeah try polycarbonate too
[10:05:48] <asdfqwega> I've got some acrylic sheet, but only a block of grey polycarbonate
[10:05:59] <les> well better go eat dinner...may I ask...what is your name?
[10:06:05] <asdfqwega> Thomas Fritz
[10:06:21] <les> ok cool
[10:06:27] <les> talk later
[10:06:27] <asdfqwega> I hope to meet you someday, Les Watts
[10:06:57] <asdfqwega> much later...I'm going back out to the shop.
[10:07:06] <les> Come down to the smoky mountains some time... free bed and breakfast
[10:07:11] <les> later
[10:07:19] <asdfqwega> enjoy dinner :)
[23:32:28] <les> hi paul
[23:37:49] <paul_c> Hi Les
[23:51:06] <les> woops was away at brekfast paul
[23:51:14] <les> breakfast
[23:52:27] <les> have to switch gears from wooden turkey calls to digital tronics
[23:52:45] <les> and blow the dust off of the tronics gear
[23:53:00] <les> really need to get that stuff out of the shop
[23:53:44] <les> I need a new sillyscope too
[23:53:51] <les> I think pc based
[23:55:10] <paul_c> * paul_c would like a new one too...
[23:59:36] <les> pc based with a laptop would be great
[23:59:55] <les> with a logic analyzer