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[00:08:48] <andypugh> PCW: I think it is a resistor, not inductively wound
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[00:10:00] <andypugh> It is the frazzled thing near the (frazzled) terminal block (the original porcelain one was lying nearby)
[00:10:44] <andypugh> (isn’t a “shunt” always a resistor?)
[00:11:37] <PCW> yeah a resistor would limit the peak inductive kickback voltage
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[01:15:54] <cradek> andypugh: if you have MSF and some cpu, maybe you could put a home switch on it and have it self-set after power outage
[01:17:04] <andypugh> I can’t help wanting an encoder on it.
[01:17:35] <cradek> did it self-set originally?
[01:17:50] <andypugh> No, they just trusted the system
[01:18:09] <andypugh> (and this clock had an “advane 30 seconds” button
[01:18:15] <cradek> aha
[01:18:32] <cradek> how terrible that must've been
[01:18:48] <andypugh> I do have a multi-turn conductive encoder spare.
[01:19:13] <andypugh> (I think it was horribly expensive new in 1950)
[01:20:21] <kwallace2> How far from original is the clock?
[01:21:05] <zeeshan|2> hi kirk
[01:21:17] <kwallace2> Howdy.
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[01:21:36] <zeeshan|2> have you done vfd communication lately?
[01:24:04] <kwallace2> Not for quit a while. I would like to make a Modbus/Arduino/dumb VFD adapter, but VFDs are cheap these days and my dumb VFDs are beginning to fail.
[01:24:46] <zeeshan|2> i was curious to figure out why you like using modbus rtu for communication
[01:26:03] <zeeshan|2> most of your drivers used modbus rtu :)
[01:26:16] <kwallace2> Modbus/RTU is made for industrial control.
[01:26:36] <zeeshan|2> i have a system with 3 vfds in it currently
[01:26:42] <zeeshan|2> the 2 vfds are identical (eaton ones)
[01:26:48] <zeeshan|2> they can either use modbus rtu or ascii
[01:26:59] <zeeshan|2> but the sumitomo vfd doesn't have a rtu option
[01:27:00] <zeeshan|2> only ascii
[01:27:12] <zeeshan|2> so i think im gonna have to try to communicate using ascii
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[01:29:23] <kwallace2> If you have a manual and it covers ASCII then it should not be too hard, but don't hold me to it.
[01:29:40] <zeeshan|2> i was trying to figure out what the differnce was
[01:29:50] <zeeshan|2> with ascii mode there is an end of packet
[01:30:02] <zeeshan|2> but with rtu mode a 10ms delay is percieved as end of communication
[01:30:09] <andypugh> kwallace2: As far as I know it is the original 1905 clock
[01:30:45] <kwallace2> Oops, gota go to dinner. I should be back in a little bit.
[01:37:29] <mozmck> zeeshan|2: with ascii mode, each byte is converted to 2 ascii characters
[01:37:37] <mozmck> 0-9 and A-F
[01:37:42] <zeeshan|2> yes
[01:38:13] <mozmck> twice as many bytes per packet, but no or little timing constraints
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[01:39:31] <zeeshan|2> this is probably a very noob question but ill ask..
[01:39:40] <zeeshan|2> what is the point of using modbus ascii libraries
[01:39:56] <zeeshan|2> i was looking at the sample program written in the vfd manual
[01:40:26] <zeeshan|2> lemme post :)
[01:41:50] <zeeshan|2> http://pastebin.com/bDQYhY1Y
[01:43:11] <zeeshan|2> they dont make use of modbus?
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[01:56:41] <mozmck> If I understand correctly, they are just sending one modbus packet that doesn't need a response.
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[01:58:16] <mozmck> A library just gives you some functions to allow you to do the setup, easily change the packet contents, poll for a response, etc.
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[02:01:05] <zeeshan|2> okay :)
[02:01:11] <zeeshan|2> mozmck: thats exactly what theyre doing
[02:02:51] <mozmck> :) the packet there is hard coded, generally you would have a function that could take random data, and it would convert to ascii, add the start and stop indicators and LRC and then send.
[02:06:08] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of getting a better learning experience in communicating with a VFD
[02:06:16] <zeeshan|2> ill try from 'hardcoded packet' approach
[02:06:32] <zeeshan|2> see how things work
[02:06:38] <zeeshan|2> and then make the code more modular
[02:06:53] <zeeshan|2> i used kwallace's modbus driver for the eaton mvx9000
[02:07:18] <zeeshan|2> he was running the vfd in forward, reverse, and stopping and setting frequency
[02:07:28] <zeeshan|2> i ended up adding current monitors etc
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[02:07:53] <zeeshan|2> but that was using the modbus library (didnt get too much understanding of how the process worked, just a lot of trial and error copying and pasting)
[02:10:04] <kwallace2> I just copied Micheal's VFS11 or somesuch driver and edited it to my SJ200's commands. I think someone else did the MVX.
[02:10:33] <zeeshan|2> ah :)
[02:10:51] <zeeshan|2> you know whats sweet?
[02:10:56] <kwallace2> I did a little hard coding until I started figuring things out and went on to libModbus.
[02:10:58] <zeeshan|2> once you get it working with MVX series
[02:11:02] <zeeshan|2> NFX and other eaton vfds are easy!
[02:11:05] <mozmck> the modbus spec has it all in it, not too hard to read I didn't think. There is plenty of code around to study as well.
[02:12:29] <zeeshan|2> the only thing i couldnt figure out with the mvx9000 driver was this
[02:13:00] <zeeshan|2> if i set 90.04 "transmission fault treamtnet" to 00 "display fault and continue to operate"
[02:13:14] <zeeshan|2> you would see the vfd display go crazy (saying it detects transmission faults)
[02:13:44] <zeeshan|2> i have no idea what it considers a transmission fault
[02:14:36] <kwallace2> My guess is either CRC, timing error, or a data size mismatch.
[02:15:00] <zeeshan|2> timing error is handled by another parameter (wathdog) it monitors the time between commands
[02:15:10] <zeeshan|2> adjustable from 0 to 120s
[02:15:26] <zeeshan|2> crc i think might be it!
[02:15:46] <zeeshan|2> because i didn't see anything in the driver that calculated crc the way the manual says to
[02:16:13] <zeeshan|2> LRC (Longitudinal Redundancy Check) is calculated by summing up, module 256, the values of the bytes from ADR1 to last data character then calculating the hexadecimal representation of the 2s-complement negation of the sum.
[02:16:19] <zeeshan|2> yea i definitely do not remember seeing that
[02:19:14] <kwallace2> My impression was that a bad CRC would just cause the packet to be ignored by the receiver, but the sender expects to the receiver to send a NACK with CRC back so the sender would know that the packet didn't get through. But, I've forgotten a lot of this stuff.
[02:20:39] <kwallace2> Usually I try everything I can think of until it starts working, then move on.
[02:20:45] <zeeshan|2> haha
[02:21:10] <zeeshan|2> well i was thinking if you send run/stop commands over rs485
[02:21:18] <zeeshan|2> you definitely need a watchdog to kill everything
[02:21:27] <zeeshan|2> just incase the main computer freezes
[02:21:41] <zeeshan|2> cause the other day on my lathe, thats exactly what happened
[02:21:55] <zeeshan|2> comp froze (shouldnt be surfing the web while maching)
[02:22:06] <zeeshan|2> and the steppers died cause of the chargepump
[02:22:10] <zeeshan|2> but the spindle kept spinning :)
[02:22:25] <zeeshan|2> i don't want that happenining on the mill!
[02:22:47] <zeeshan|2> i think a transmission check woulda avoided that
[02:24:10] <kwallace2> It sounds like you need to have the charge pump control your e-stop relay to cut all machine power.
[02:25:16] <zeeshan|2> on the lathe i dont have a contactor on the vfd primary
[02:25:30] <zeeshan|2> but on the mill setup i'm putting contactors on all primary sides of the servo drives, vfds
[02:25:48] <zeeshan|2> but an e-stop switch directly controls the coils of that
[02:26:38] <zeeshan|2> i will also be using one of the 7i77 field output as a watchdog
[02:27:13] <kwallace2> You just need a round to it that fits your lathe.
[02:27:24] <zeeshan|2> i have arguements with others over this but i think killing the mains on the servo drives and vfds while they're under full load
[02:27:27] <zeeshan|2> is pretty harsh
[02:27:55] <zeeshan|2> if you just kill the enables on the servo drives
[02:28:11] <zeeshan|2> also use the builtin watchdog in the vfd to stop the drive (not kill power to primary)
[02:28:16] <zeeshan|2> its a much smoother action
[02:28:56] <zeeshan|2> so you dont include the watchdog from the 7i77 field output into the e-stop chain. only the e-stop switch controlling the coils of the contactors
[02:29:06] <zeeshan|2> so in a real emergency, you can kill power in a harsh manner
[02:29:41] <zeeshan|2> this is the main reason why i'd like to use the watchdog inside the vfd in a computer freeze scenario
[02:31:16] <zeeshan|2> son of a...
[02:31:17] <zeeshan|2> "libmodbus is a free software library to send/receive data according to the Modbus protocol. This library is written in C and supports RTU (serial) and TCP (Ethernet) communications."
[02:31:20] <zeeshan|2> no ASCII! :(
[02:32:26] <kwallace2> I was running a big CNC lathe for a local shop and it had a small hydraulic leak. The reservoir got too low and threw an alarm which e-stopped the lathe with a big bag. The spindle stopped in maybe a tenth of a turn from 3kRPM, then was silent. They filled it up again and I was back to work.
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[02:33:14] <zeeshan|2> was the power to the primary of the vfd killed?
[02:33:43] <zeeshan|2> it must have to be able to stop that quick :P
[02:33:59] <kwallace2> I don't know, nothing was on when it stopped.
[02:36:41] <kwallace2> My HNC lathe has a magnetic release brake that activates when the power is cut. I don't think it is big enough for an instant stop, besides I have a threaded spindle so the chuck could keep spinning.
[02:38:06] <zeeshan|2> im always overthinking stuff :P
[02:38:16] <zeeshan|2> i just try to avoid cycling capcacitors if i dont have to
[02:39:29] <mozmck> http://www.freemodbus.org/
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[02:41:05] <zeeshan|2> sweet
[02:41:06] <zeeshan|2> ascii mode.
[02:41:21] <zeeshan|2> okay there is no point to hardcore when theres nice functions like this
[02:41:39] <zeeshan|2> *code
[02:42:08] <zeeshan|2> by next weekend i should have the vfds wired up. programming will commence
[02:45:38] <kwallace2> Hmmm, I keep getting page not found with FreeModbus.
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[02:46:14] <zeeshan|2> if you click api documentation
[02:46:23] <zeeshan|2> you can surf through the examples
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[02:46:49] <zeeshan|2> and in the examples you can click on the functions and it gives you a description of the function :D
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[02:48:25] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15746739912/
[02:48:33] <zeeshan|2> bottom 3 are the vfds i need to communicate with
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[02:57:37] <kwallace2> I have my doubts about FreeModbus being an active project and the Linux port talks about being only a slave.
[03:03:25] <kwallace2> Ah ha, found some source:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/freemodbus.berlios/files/
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[15:54:05] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.7 3a90fb6 06linuxcnc 10docs/src/Master_Getting_Started.txt docs: clean up Getting Started guide * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=3a90fb6
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[16:57:38] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Michael Geszkiewicz 052.6 37068c7 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_7i43.c 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_7i90.c hostmot2: fix second default address of epp port in 7i43 and 7i90 drivers * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=37068c7
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[17:49:58] <seb_kuzminsky> i dont know how to explain to users that a "feature" shouldnt go in because it's implemented wrong
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[17:53:35] <archivist> a "long" list of implementation errors
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[17:57:26] <archivist> I think some people think with too small a boundary to a perceived problem and it needs widening
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[18:01:06] <cradek> it's impossible to explain that without being perceived as the bad guy
[18:01:47] <cradek> several users looked at it (the video) and said "Uh, why doesn't it work in the way I expect? It should use the existing jog controls. That's weird."
[18:02:28] <cradek> so at least this one isn't just "the implementation is all weird" which is a much harder case to make to users
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[18:03:00] <cradek> a sample config that does the same thing (offset+limit) without this patch might be the best defense
[18:03:46] <cradek> this kind of thing is soul-sucking and I hate it
[18:04:08] <cradek> on the other hand, I got my rule with 100ths of inches on one side and halfs of mms on the other side, and it's everything I ever wanted
[18:04:36] <archivist> working to a chalk mark should be good enough
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[18:10:28] <kwallace> A lot of my nifty steel rules are a bit short from being used with sheet metal on the sheer :(
[18:12:05] <kwallace> Oops, shear
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[19:36:41] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: yay!
[19:44:46] <skunkworks> if all you are wanting is to clear swarf... then I would think offset would work great. I have 90% implimented now... (for Z) I can run the spindle to zero with SO and I would just have to add buttons to 'jog' the offset.
[19:45:38] <skunkworks> technically you could change the tool and just set the offset to the new tool length.. (cutter diameter though is off limits..)
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[19:51:31] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: are you writing a config showing how to use offset+limit3 to simulat jwp?
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[19:52:38] <skunkworks> I think I could add it to the K&T and do a video..
[19:53:33] <skunkworks> I already have offset/limit3 setup for temp comp on z
[19:56:07] <skunkworks> would it be possible to take over the jog wheel?
[19:56:09] <skunkworks> I wonder
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[23:06:46] <memfrob> I don't think this is the right way...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qPJTTRWttQ paint roller on a car? >_>
[23:08:01] <memfrob> it looks like he's serious though and that's what boggles me.
[23:13:47] <zeeshan|2> lol
[23:13:49] <zeeshan|2> thats terrible
[23:14:02] <zeeshan|2> you do all that body work
[23:14:05] <zeeshan|2> to spray on crap paint?
[23:17:15] <zeeshan|2> http://s130.photobucket.com/user/turbozee84/media/D070B361-3C70-4D16-9391-656CA8706DAF-7246-000012BAD9C74A9E.jpg.html?sort=3&o=381
[23:17:18] <zeeshan|2> thats how i did mine
[23:17:46] <zeeshan|2> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/83CB3171-85C4-4A80-B8D5-F7B8FABBB48D-7246-000012BAEAC50484.jpg
[23:18:34] <zeeshan|2> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/844BF95F-0BAE-4A06-8CB2-19641E920493-768-0000002B25C6591A_zps2c7f312a.jpg
[23:18:45] <zeeshan|2> http://s130.photobucket.com/user/turbozee84/media/591CC9E4-F447-4449-932E-AB693EDEA705-768-0000002B15E26412_zps45b1c6f3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=369
[23:18:48] <zeeshan|2> goes on like glass
[23:19:37] <memfrob> RX7? FD?
[23:20:23] <zeeshan|2> yes
[23:20:38] <zeeshan|2> i did all the body work / primer at home
[23:20:49] <memfrob> that's incredible!
[23:20:52] <zeeshan|2> and then rented a booth for 2 days. day 1 i did all the panels and day 2 did the car
[23:21:13] <zeeshan|2> if i could go back, i should have left all the panels on the car
[23:21:26] <zeeshan|2> i made it a lot harder on myself by taking them off
[23:21:34] <memfrob> how molested was the engine when you bought it?
[23:21:44] <zeeshan|2> i dont have a rotary anymore
[23:21:49] <zeeshan|2> ran that nonsense for 2 years :P
[23:21:53] <memfrob> heh!
[23:22:02] <zeeshan|2> theyre too easy to blow up
[23:22:24] <memfrob> what swap did you pull? 2JZ? LS?
[23:22:29] <zeeshan|2> its got a lq9 v8
[23:22:36] <zeeshan|2> and i threw two turbos on it
[23:22:39] * zeeshan|2 cant live without turbos
[23:22:57] <zeeshan|2> lq9 is the 6.0 lsx engine
[23:23:00] <zeeshan|2> but iron block
[23:23:11] <zeeshan|2> about 90 lb more than an aluminum block
[23:24:17] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/RTwQW8g.jpg
[23:24:43] <zeeshan|2> im going to be moving the turbos higher up this winter
[23:24:48] <zeeshan|2> thats why its all apart again :P
[23:25:13] <memfrob> not too familiar with the LQ9, is that a truck engine?
[23:25:16] <zeeshan|2> yes
[23:25:19] <zeeshan|2> its like the ls2
[23:25:23] <zeeshan|2> but just iron block
[23:25:26] <memfrob> ah.
[23:25:42] <zeeshan|2> i personally dont like the aluminum blocks
[23:25:48] <zeeshan|2> they have a crap load of small problems
[23:25:55] <memfrob> such as?
[23:26:08] <zeeshan|2> people break the starter mounts
[23:26:15] <zeeshan|2> theyre like 1/2" thick
[23:26:19] <zeeshan|2> and they still get broken
[23:26:30] <zeeshan|2> if you blow a piston ring and score the walls
[23:26:39] <zeeshan|2> you gotta replace the block, you cant bore it
[23:27:08] <zeeshan|2> and then last thing is thermal stability f/strength or boosted applications
[23:27:10] <zeeshan|2> *for
[23:27:57] <memfrob> if you bore it you need new pistons anyway to fill the gap, do they make pistons for bored engines or do you build or buy aftermarket?
[23:28:17] <zeeshan|2> buy forged pistons aftermarket
[23:28:30] <Roguish> hey all. is there a vcpglade widget thing for following errors?
[23:33:00] <memfrob> which errors?
[23:33:43] <memfrob> zeeshan|2: anti-lag at least?
[23:33:50] <zeeshan|2> no
[23:33:50] <Roguish> the axes following errors
[23:33:52] <zeeshan|2> its 6.0L!!!
[23:33:58] <zeeshan|2> i make full boost at like 2000 rpm :P
[23:34:08] <memfrob> thats early!
[23:34:11] <memfrob> :D
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