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[02:58:43] <tjtr33> are there any configs that use rotatekins ? i dont find any in my install or RIP.
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[03:05:37] <cradek> no, because rotatekins is a bad idea and doesn't work
[03:06:07] <cradek> besides, we have coordinate system rotation
[03:06:20] <cradek> what problem are you trying to solve?
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[03:11:04] <tjtr33> I want to tilt the plane of a circle. have a new Z axis motion using the 3 cartesian joints, and a circle in the palne normal to that tiled Z
[03:11:17] <tjtr33> plane
[03:11:44] <tjtr33> this is one step beyong rotating a the xy
[03:12:40] <tjtr33> ( very surprised with 'bad idea and doesnt work' please put that in the file header :)
[03:13:13] <cradek> well it is what it is
[03:13:33] <tjtr33> no problewm, i just been reading it and working on it. i didnt know
[03:13:35] <cradek> it's an example of kins, but doing coordinate system rotation at that layer is not a right approach
[03:15:05] <tjtr33> lemme imagebin something
[03:17:53] <tjtr33> http://ibin.co/1bxczHu98plH i use this all the time, allows me to do angled slides in molds.
[03:18:58] <tjtr33> circular motion is allowed about the plane tiled by 2 angles, 1st is angle to cartesian Z+, 2mnd is rotation from cartesean X+
[03:19:09] <tjtr33> argh titled
[03:20:18] <tjtr33> argh argh tilted
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[03:23:22] <cradek> yeah we don't have a good way to do that, unfortunately
[03:23:47] <cradek> I don't understand how it's useful without a tilting head (5 axis)
[03:24:59] <tjtr33> in edm the tool doesnt spin, its fixed at an angle. machines at at an angle. The tool moves along its 'centerline' using this transform
[03:25:44] <tjtr33> i already 'do' edm using hal. but need a bit more in motion control
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[03:27:44] <cradek> ah, edm
[03:27:54] <cradek> you could use 5 axis kins and program in uv
[03:28:04] <cradek> however, there are currently no UV arcs
[03:28:08] <cradek> canned cycles do work
[03:30:14] <tjtr33> the transform is not a tricky matrix. if kins is not a good place, what is?
[03:31:12] <cradek> the problem is what happens when you change the transform. if it's in kins, you get a position jump that your machine of course can't follow
[03:31:33] <tjtr33> ah, be AT the pivot luke
[03:32:01] <cradek> the only right way to do it is before all position interpolation (i.e. motion) which means it goes in the interpreter and canon level, like all the existing offsets and rotations
[03:32:36] <cradek> if you want to do this, you'll have to study and understand how the existing offsets/rotations work and do a similar thing
[03:33:05] <cradek> or the only other options are write it directly in gcode, or do it in cam somehow
[03:34:24] <cradek> if this tends to be circular motion, you might consider supporting arbitrary arcs instead
[03:34:47] <cradek> so you can make the arc you want without coordinate system tilting, which is extremely hard
[03:34:57] <cradek> supporting arbitrary arcs would be a much easier project
[03:35:06] <tjtr33> yes, i see a lot of understanding to do.
[03:35:31] <cradek> hint: chris@emc:~/emc$ git branch -a|grep arb
[03:35:31] <cradek> remotes/origin/arbitrary-arc
[03:35:44] <tjtr33> in hal i used a sin/cos generator from the examples to move a radius away from the Z axis.
[03:36:02] <tjtr33> i hoped to tilt the Z and the sin/cos move along the new plane
[03:36:25] <cradek> well you're one step worse now, because the hal level won't know about your tilt
[03:36:35] <cradek> so your orbiting scheme doesn't work anymore
[03:36:57] <tjtr33> i hope it doesnt. it moves x' y' which are on the new plane
[03:37:03] <cradek> you pin yourself in when you do things at the wrong layers
[03:37:34] <cradek> sounds like you are "orbiting" (applying cos/sin) to joints 0 and 1
[03:38:20] <cradek> x and y in gcode don't always point along joints 0 and 1
[03:38:27] <cradek> even less so, if you add this tilt
[03:38:46] <cradek> (unless I am misunderstanding what you said)
[03:39:02] <tjtr33> 1) in my dream, the motion would be on the new plane, and normal gcode arcs would 'work' and 2) yes orbiting using joints 0 & 1 &2 simultaneously
[03:39:30] <cradek> your dream is possible but it would be very hard
[03:40:07] <cradek> if you did add tilt, you'd have to write the orbit arcs in gcode
[03:40:39] <skunkworks_> 'arbitrary' arcs could be done with a subroutine doing short line segments - couldn't they (for now) in uvw?
[03:40:49] <cradek> sure
[03:40:53] <cradek> with 5 axis kins
[03:40:57] <skunkworks_> right
[03:41:10] <cradek> but adding arbitrary arcs isn't really that hard (compared to this other stuff)
[03:41:17] <cradek> ALL the motion is already done and supported
[03:41:28] <cradek> figuring out how to do it in gcode is the only hard part
[03:41:54] <cradek> see that branch if you're curious
[03:42:16] <skunkworks_> you would need 3 more letters for 'ijk'
[03:42:17] <cradek> adding UV/VW/WU arcs also isn't complicated
[03:42:50] <cradek> it would be uncomplicated but tedious
[03:43:03] <cradek> yikes, it got late
[03:43:05] <cradek> goodnight!
[03:43:15] <tjtr33> yes, short segments can describe a tilted circle. thats not really what i need. i need a tiled cone, i trace the circluar edge of the cone, i run awaqy to the apex when theres a problem, i return to the circ edge when ok. i do not simply follow the circular edge.
[03:43:20] <tjtr33> gnite th
[03:43:22] <tjtr33> x
[03:43:43] <tjtr33> will look at the branch
[03:45:55] <tjtr33> tomp studies what 'git branch -a|grep arb remotes/origin/arbitrary-arc' will do :)
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[04:01:30] <KGB-linuxcnc> 05dgarr/menu_updatev2 7dd6549 06linuxcnc 04. branch deleted * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=7dd6549
[04:01:53] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05master 3a0e07d 06linuxcnc 10(10 files in 6 dirs) Application menu fixes * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=3a0e07d
[04:13:31] <tjtr33> ok, the cmd is git branch -a|grep arb the result is remotes/origin/arbitrary-arc now how to look at that branch
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[04:28:00] <skunkworks_> is it git checkout arbitrary-arc
[04:28:28] <tjtr33> i spose git checkout -b arbitrary-arc remotes/origin/arbitrary-arc
[04:29:12] <tjtr33> still studying before i crap up my system with misunderstood git bullet
[04:29:55] <skunkworks_> I would make a new git repository.. something in linuxcnc-arbarc :)
[04:30:21] <tjtr33> i did, a whole new checkout linuxcnc-dev2
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[04:32:08] <tjtr33> Branch arbitrary-arc set up to track remote branch arbitrary-arc from origin Switched to a new branch 'arbitrary-arc'
[04:32:12] <tjtr33> phew!
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[04:43:26] <tjtr33> haha if i build the new branch, then if it lets me use cmds like (arc, 2,0,-1, 1,0,-1, 0,1,1, 0) where do i look for how this cmd is interpreted and executed?
[04:43:32] <tjtr33> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/arbarc.png
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[04:59:57] <tjtr33> seems to be a direct NML command (type, end3, ctr3, normal3, turns) and some trick to get the () data executed rather than ignored
[05:00:18] <tjtr33> but thats all guesswork, not reading code
[05:01:57] <tjtr33> damn make failed
[05:02:21] <tjtr33> Linking rs274 ../lib/librs274.so.0: undefined reference to `ARBARC(int, double, double, double, double, double, double, double, double, double, int)' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
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[05:05:42] <tjtr33> yeah i was in right dir
[05:05:58] <tjtr33> make: *** [../bin/rs274] Error 1 make: Leaving directory `/home/tomp/linuxcnc-dev2/src'
[05:06:21] <tjtr33> domani! thx
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[05:43:21] <tjtr33> ok, if i understand, the (arc, end, ctr, nrml, turns) is how the ARBARC is set in the .ngc file. and the normal is a triplet of 3 doubles ( floats ),
[05:43:33] <tjtr33> so it is possible to describe the normal as _other_ than +/-1 or 0 in any of the 3 terms.
[05:43:34] <tjtr33> so truly 'tiltable' in any orientation
[05:44:20] <tjtr33> again, i guess its a unit vector
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[05:44:23] <tjtr33> thx
[05:44:24] <tjtr33> gnite
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[12:27:11] <jepler> bizarre. 15+ years after the "F0 0F" bug was discovered, Intel released a new CPU with the bug, the Intel Quark.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_F00F_bug#cite_note-3
[12:29:50] <archivist> I imagine they went back to an earlier design and forgot about it
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[12:56:06] <jepler> yeah, "The CPU's instruction set is roughly similar to that of a Pentium (P54C/i586) CPU."
[12:58:11] <jepler> (this is the chip in the intel galileo and which was originally slated to be in the edison)
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[14:35:45] <skunkworks> I did get a reailtime error in task 0 - but no following error..
[14:35:56] <skunkworks> I should try it again with idle=poll
[14:36:02] <skunkworks> this is at 2khz
[14:40:36] <skunkworks> (running over the weekend)
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[14:54:32] <pcw_home> Yeah pretty sure 2 KHz is just at the edge for a J1900 (I want to try a Haswell CPU and Intels bargain G3258 looks like a good choice)
[14:55:11] <pcw_home> (~4x the single thread performance of a J1800)
[14:55:31] <skunkworks> I will try your Dpll next
[14:57:21] <pcw_home> the Biostar A68 wont quite do Ethernet at 2 KHz but otherwise seems fine (and good RTAI latency)
[14:58:08] <pcw_home> 0 BIOs issues despite warnings about Biostar
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[15:02:53] <skunkworks> I know we still have a bunch of biostar motherboards in service here.. lately we have been running asus.
[15:10:46] <skunkworks> jepler, did you see
http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/18-computer/20514-emc2-running-on-raspberry-pi?start=240#44260
[15:11:57] <skunkworks> that seems almost like a solution.. tablet -> spi -> mesa hardware.
[15:12:50] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: what happens with the Biostar A68 to not make it handle Ethernet at 2 KHz?
[15:12:54] <ssi> that's the solution I've been talking about for months :(
[15:16:27] <pcw_home> CaptHindsight 2KHz is about as fast as can be done with Preemt-RT/Ethernet with low end processors
[15:16:29] <pcw_home> the Intel J1800 will do 2 KHz reliably but just, the A4-5000 on the Biostar is a bit slower than the J1800
[15:16:59] <CaptHindsight> that was my next question, prempt_rt or RTAI kernel
[15:17:49] <pcw_home> on the other hand since a 1 KHz servo thread is fine for 98% of uses the Biostar should be a decent hm2_eth host
[15:18:08] <skunkworks> sure
[15:19:07] <pcw_home> it also has quite good RTAI latency
[15:19:24] <pcw_home> (and a parallel port)
[15:19:26] <skunkworks> and the usb's probably work
[15:19:54] <pcw_home> well the J1800 usbs work with the right kernel options...
[15:20:05] <skunkworks> (j1800/j1900 usb's don't work with rtai)
[15:20:19] <skunkworks> right - work fine with rt_preempt_
[15:20:22] <pcw_home> Dont think its RTAI
[15:20:45] <pcw_home> more likely kernel build options
[15:21:16] <pcw_home> (since the same vintage Preemt-RT kernel works)
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[15:22:57] <skunkworks> sure.. I have not tried memleaks work..
[15:24:29] <__unik> skunkworks: I __hate__ memory management
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[15:33:41] <pcw_home> funny despite all the whining about parallel ports going away, looking at new LGA1150
[15:33:42] <pcw_home> MBs to test the G3258, many seem to have LPT port headers and some still have DB25s on the back panel
[15:36:18] <pcw_home> (though rare on Mini-ITX )
[15:36:40] <CaptHindsight> lots of Intel mini MB's are staying with LPT even though Intel started referring to them as legacy ports ~10 years ago
[15:37:29] <CaptHindsight> it's more difficult to find LPT ports on small AMD boards
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[15:40:40] <pcw_home> the Biostar has one (haven't tested but since is uses the ubiquitous ITE SuperIO chip its probably fine)
[15:40:48] <tjtr33> cradek, hello, if you get time, i had probs making the arbitrary_arc branch
[15:40:49] <tjtr33> Linking rs274 ../lib/librs274.so.0: undefined reference to `ARBARC(int, double, double, double, double, double, double, double, double, double, int)' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[15:43:42] <cradek> odd, it built fine for me just now
[15:44:03] <tjtr33> ok i'll try from scrath again, thx
[15:45:13] <cradek> be aware I don't intend that you can use this branch as-is, but you could continue and finish that feature if you need it
[15:46:18] <tjtr33> i intended to study it, esp the 4th term, the normal
[15:46:51] <cradek> awesome
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[16:52:51] <tjtr33> make prob: is this to be ignored? after ./autogen.sh, i get this
[16:52:54] <tjtr33> "./configure --enable-run-in-place configure: WARNING: unrecognized options: --enable-run-in-place'
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[16:56:44] <tjtr33> complete log from git to configure
http://pastebin.com/0ZAf1cMv
[16:59:36] <tjtr33> config.status seems ok
[17:02:56] <tjtr33> config.log saw probs
http://pastebin.com/s516hJCy
[17:04:46] <tjtr33> but config exits 0 last make failed, do i continue and ignore warnings
[17:05:43] <tjtr33> no i dont wanna make a NON run-in-place
[17:06:09] <cradek> are you meaning to build master?
[17:06:20] <cradek> I thought you were interested in that old branch
[17:06:52] <tjtr33> yes, then add branch, switch, then build ( seems a way to avoid last fail )
[17:07:15] <cradek> I don't understand
[17:07:30] <cradek> git clean -f -x -d
[17:07:34] <cradek> git checkout arbitrary-arc
[17:07:39] <tjtr33> should i build master then add branch, or get branch
[17:07:40] <tjtr33> ok
[17:07:50] <cradek> no
[17:07:57] <cradek> the branch is very old - build it from clean
[17:08:17] <tjtr33> ok as above clean, then checkout
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[17:42:11] <ssi> cradek: you've done spindle orient, yeah?
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[17:45:29] <skunkworks> I think cradeks machine - like mine has a mechanical orient
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[17:45:50] <ssi> crap!
[17:48:57] <skunkworks> Just do it! ;)
[17:49:48] <ssi> well, pete's machine is far away, and mine's not even on a truck yet
[17:49:54] <ssi> wire transfer went through this morning
[17:50:05] <ssi> but, I'm tihnking I can use the hnc to play with spindle orient
[17:50:32] <ssi> what I'm curious about is whether the spindle has to be closed loop before you can use the orient component
[17:50:38] <ssi> seems like from the docs the answer is yes
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[17:58:09] <jepler> ssi: yes I think that's the case
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[17:59:24] <ssi> I'll try to get into it some tonight
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[18:31:19] <tjtr33> cradek, no joy yet log here
http://pastebin.com/KJmWEzFn
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[18:39:14] <dgarr> seb_kuzminsky: ok for 2.6?
http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/0001-emccalib.tcl-enable-search-in-POSTGUI_HALFILEs.patch
[18:39:27] <dgarr> i'll read back later thanks
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[18:45:57] <jepler> dgarr: reading sim_pin I noticed that [isnegative] probably erroneously returns a true value for a number like 1e-10
[18:49:29] <jepler> I don't know what ini.xxx pins are and I see they're not documented :_/
[18:49:33] <jepler> (ow my nose)
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[19:06:48] <jepler> well here's what I came up with for documentation, but it'd be great to have someone say whether it's accurate
[19:06:51] <jepler> http://pastie.org/9605152
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[20:34:02] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 052.6 15f7d6f 06linuxcnc 10scripts/sim_pin sim_pin: remove special case (-0) in isnegative * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=15f7d6f
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