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[00:13:43] <mozmck> huh, Xilinx doesn't give you many options or guarantees about webtalk if you use ISE WEBPACK
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[00:17:02] <KimK> I missed this when it first appeared, maybe others missed it too? "...Ubuntu MATE [MAH-tay] is on the path to become the latest addition to the family of official Ubuntu flavours..." (AKA, The return of the classic interface!)
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20140825#news Maybe by 16.04 LTS it'll be all settled in.
[00:17:58] <mozmck> Interesting. I like XFCE pretty well, and Cinnamon, but haven't tried MATE
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[00:45:52] <jepler> got write to run in ~8s, verify in ~6s, so 3x better
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[00:46:44] <jepler> doesn't work if I increase U3 <=> 7i90 SPI speed from 8MHz to 24MHz
[00:47:12] <jepler> layer violations galore
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[00:53:46] <jepler> probably it's not worth doing, I'm unlikely to program eeproms over SPI enough times in the rest of my life to make a profit on the 10s I get back on each run
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[00:54:50] <PCW> Not something you typically do a lot
[00:56:20] <PCW> I mean I can make a 32 bit SPI interface with FIFO but its a fair amount of hardware that may only be used about 5 times total
[00:59:17] <PCW> the Ethernet one is fast because the processor hides the details so you can just
[00:59:18] <PCW> send a command to read the next 256 doublewords from the flash
[01:01:13] <jepler> yeah from the POV of mesaflash that sounds simply luxurious
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[01:01:51] <jepler> I guess I should do what I came to do, which is to see whether my self-built (hostmot2-firmware) 7i90spi firmware works
[01:02:26] <PCW> just now building the fallback configs
[01:05:19] <jepler> well that was anticlimactic. but yay, that's two cards (7i80, 7i90spi) confirmed to work with images built by hostmot2-firmware
[01:07:15] <PCW> freeby.mesanet.com/7i90fallbacks.zip
[01:07:37] <PCW> in case you dont want to futz around building them
[01:08:16] <jepler> so I just did this:
[01:08:16] <jepler> ./mesaflash --device 7I90 --addr /dev/spidev1.0 --spi --verbose --write 7i90_spi_fallback.bit --fallback
[01:08:47] <jepler> in theory if I now do a --write (no --fallback) and interrupt it (ctrl-c) it'll boot to the fallback, which will have SPI, and I'll be able to tell from a blinking LED?
[01:09:17] <PCW> yes
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[01:09:44] <PCW> you can also just write the fallback in the normal place to check blinkyness
[01:09:54] <jepler> init blinks
[01:10:10] <jepler> hmid reads as justio
[01:10:21] <jepler> or whatever you call it
[01:10:43] <PCW> and the latest SPI configs have ICAP so it should be possible to start a reconfig at any address
[01:11:43] <jepler> the odroid's fan control really needs more hysteresis
[01:11:58] <jepler> it tends to come on for just a few seconds at a time
[01:12:08] <jepler> .. but sometimes multiple times a minute
[01:12:08] <PCW> no speed control?
[01:12:35] <jepler> it has speed control, a PWM register with 128 (?) levels; the fan actually starts rotating at fan duty 48
[01:13:09] <jepler> It's partially my fault, as I tweaked the starting temperature and duty to be lower; the default is nothing until the fan comes on loud
[01:14:23] <jepler> though the cycles might be even faster if the fan comes on harder
[01:15:18] <PCW> yeah so even with proportional control it maybe hard to make it stable
[01:16:16] <jepler> I don't even know if start-stop cycles are harmful for computer fans
[01:16:50] <PCW> Dont know either
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[01:18:33] <PCW> Its amazing you got the muddled mess that is hm2 firmware to compile on the buildbot
[01:18:35] <jepler> I can tune it to stay on all the time
[01:19:31] <jepler> PCW: I write software build systems for fun, apparently.
[01:19:47] <PCW> funny idea of fun
[01:20:01] <PCW> bbiab
[01:20:06] <jepler> see ya
[01:21:53] <jepler> anyway, don't sell yourself short on the structure of hm2. figuring out the damned build flags is not a great deal of fun, but your parts mix and match well (but it's no surprise, that's important to what hm2 *is*)
[01:22:43] <jepler> but yes, I take some pride in only having to use the recovery eeprom once in my adventure this past week
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[06:11:08] <NTU> has anyone here tried btrfs w/ RTAI or preempt-rt and see if latency is better? once ipipe hits 3.16 im going to give it a shot
[06:11:34] <NTU> 3.16 is supposedly _the_ kernel to use for btrfs
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[06:13:17] <NTU> i notice major performance increases using tune2fs -o journal_data_writeback, rootflags=data=writeback on kernel command line, then noatime,data=writeback in fstab but nothing latency-related
[06:14:16] <NTU> EFI is basically the same way, it boots up a lot faster but disabling legacy oproms and CSM doesn't do much in terms of latency
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[12:34:35] <skunkworks> I still have issues with the motherboard in the k&t. Dad has about 4 of them but the latency with the new debian image is >100k. (tried multible video cards) these are ASUS M2N68-AM PLUS motherboards. Anything I should try?
[12:36:07] <skunkworks> I did try these things..
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?The_Isolcpus_Boot_Parameter_And_GRUB2
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[12:37:49] <skunkworks> with 10.04 and a good video card - latency stays under 15k
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[12:46:45] <jepler> skunkworks: flog 10.04 along for another few years?
[12:47:38] <skunkworks> sure.. it is working fine. (just anoying that I cannot get them to work well)
[12:47:54] <jepler> tried master branch and preempt-rt?
[12:48:03] <skunkworks> that was my next test
[12:48:18] <skunkworks> but no - I have not tried that yet
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[12:49:24] <skunkworks> I should disable audio for grins..
[12:49:52] <skunkworks> I know I have had issues with that and xenomai
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[13:09:29] <NTU> skunkworks: you're using 10.04? i could try making debs for you.
[13:10:00] <NTU> is seb_kuzminsky's rtai package building instructions up anywhere?
[13:11:09] <NTU> one thing i noticed is that latency got a whole lot better on one of my boards by simply changing CPU frequency from auto to fixed speed
[13:11:14] <jepler> NTU: I believe it builds as a debian package
[13:11:17] <jepler> apt-get source, debuild, etc
[13:11:41] <NTU> turning off cpu scaling / powernow / power savings in bios isnt the only magic
[13:13:09] <NTU> by cpu frequency i mean the overclock settings. you dont need to OC it but you could try changing the setting to the factory speed
[13:13:34] <NTU> jepler: that makes it easy then!
[13:18:37] <NTU> server 10.04.04, desktop 10.04 or desktop 10.04.1?
[13:21:16] <NTU> ( releases.ubuntu.com )
[13:22:32] <NTU> actually all the 10.04 releases are for "servers"
[13:25:10] <NTU> ah i found it!
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[13:41:16] <NTU> heh 10.04 doesnt work for me, it keeps logging me out when i click on "install 10.04"
[13:41:40] <NTU> or anything on the desktop really.. :/
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[15:35:12] <skunkworks> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/145882
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[16:09:36] <NTU> skunkworks_: are you using a 64-bit system w/ 10.04?
[16:09:48] <skunkworks_> NTU, no.
[16:10:24] <skunkworks_> ntu - the issue is debian/rtai has bad latency vs the 10.04/rtai
[16:10:41] <NTU> smp?
[16:11:22] <skunkworks_> whatever is on the live cd.. I don't know off the top of my head
[16:11:25] <NTU> multi core?
[16:11:39] <skunkworks_> the board has a 2 core
[16:11:43] <skunkworks_> amd
[16:11:49] <NTU> have you tried isolcpus at all?
[16:11:52] <skunkworks_> yes
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[16:12:40] <NTU> i assume that didnt help, have you tried idle=poll ?
[16:13:12] <skunkworks_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?The_Isolcpus_Boot_Parameter_And_GRUB2#Latency_Testing
[16:13:12] <NTU> how bad latency are we talking?
[16:13:39] <skunkworks_> >100us
[16:13:57] <skunkworks_> and rund <15us with the 10.04/rtai
[16:14:01] <skunkworks_> runs
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[16:14:10] <NTU> yeah that page was based off an rtai checkout before i fixed RTAI's HAL
[16:15:25] <NTU> i really wonder how the new rtai tree would work on your system
[16:16:32] <skunkworks_> I am game.. I don't have access to it at the moment. probably wed/thur
[16:16:43] <NTU> we've been using 4-core AMD CPUs with the latest hardware on 64-bit and it works great, no extra kernel params
[16:17:14] <NTU> havent tested the new RTAI code on 32-bit yet
[16:18:13] <NTU> are you getting any APIC superious interrupts in dmesg?
[16:18:55] <NTU> cant spell spurious :/
[16:19:55] <NTU> is your AMD CPU a fusion APU?
[16:20:54] <NTU> "tried multiple video cards" missed that..
[16:22:46] <NTU> if you want to try the new code its github.com/ntulinux/rtai you'll need to use a recent checkout of linuxcnc master as well
[16:23:38] <NTU> fmax, fmin, proc, and some other fixes required are all in master
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[17:51:57] <NTU> jepler are you aware of all the undefined variables in makefiles?
[17:52:10] <NTU> or is it just because im using make 4.0 ?
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[17:57:38] <jepler> NTU: it's possible that you're seeing undefined variable warnings due to a different version of make.
[17:57:54] <NTU> it wont build for me..
[17:58:10] <jepler> at ref dcacd13 building for uspace, I do not get any undefined variable warnings
[17:58:30] <NTU> im building for RTAI and also i eventually get caught in a make loop
[17:58:49] <zq> hm
[17:58:59] <jepler> oh do they exclusively occur while building kernel modules?
[17:59:09] <NTU> one moment.
[17:59:19] <jepler> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/1401.rip-wheezy-rtai-i386/builds/214/steps/compile/logs/warnings%20%28288836%29
[17:59:39] <jepler> apparently the wheezy-rtai build gets nearly 290,000 warnings; I assume most of them are the undefined variable warnings
[17:59:56] <NTU> oh its not a loop, its 290,000
[18:00:00] <NTU> i see
[18:00:06] <NTU> it just takes awhile
[18:00:08] <jepler> well that's news to me
[18:00:16] <jepler> but I only routinely build uspace
[18:00:54] <jepler> effing kbuild
[18:01:35] <NTU> yeah hardware drivers
[18:01:46] <jepler> uspace builds hardware drivers just fine
[18:01:48] <NTU> scripts/Makefile.build line 208
[18:01:51] <NTU> *308
[18:02:32] <NTU> never have i ever saw this many :)
[18:03:16] <NTU> dpaste.com/1CW90GX
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[18:06:19] <jepler> does this change shut kbuild up?
[18:06:19] <jepler> modules:
[18:06:20] <jepler> + MAKEFLAGS="$(filter-out --warn-undefined-variables,$(MAKEFLAGS))" \
[18:06:22] <jepler> $(PYTHON) modsilent.py $(MAKE) KBUILD_EXTRA_SYMBOLS=$(moduledir)/Module.
[18:06:26] <jepler> note trailing \
[18:06:46] <jepler> no probably it doesn't
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[18:07:50] <jepler> maybe with this too
[18:07:50] <jepler> +ifeq ($(KERNELRELEASE),)
[18:07:50] <jepler> MAKEFLAGS += --warn-undefined-variables
[18:07:50] <jepler> +endif
[18:11:10] <NTU> nope..
[18:11:14] <zq> if i want to configure an axis to 1 pulse per unit, would it be OUTPUT_SCALE = SCALE = 1.0?
[18:12:36] <NTU> undefined variable KERNELRELEASE
[18:12:39] <NTU> xD
[18:12:58] <jepler> naturally
[18:13:38] <jepler> too bad --warn-undefined-variables is a valuable tool for finding errors in mostly-correct Makefiles
[18:14:42] <jepler> must have to be ifeq ($(origin KERNELRELEASE), undefined)
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[18:15:32] <NTU> kbuild is quiet without origin KERNELRELEASE but initial make is still noisey
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[18:23:43] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Jeff Epler 05jepler/proposed-master 6b4b13f 06linuxcnc 10src/Makefile build: sssshhhh kbuild * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=6b4b13f
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[18:35:50] <NTU> heh nice commit message :)
[18:39:08] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Jeff Epler 05jepler/proposed-master ac8d297 06linuxcnc 10scripts/platform-is-supported platform-is-supported: armhf is reported as arm * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=ac8d297
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[18:53:16] <zq> how does stepgen's position scaling work? there's a comment in stepgen.c that says it's steps per unit, but only half the actual pulses are outputted
[18:53:51] <zq> as though pos-scale is steps per 2 units
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[18:59:46] <jepler> zq: if you don't believe what the docs say, did you test it and see what it does?
[18:59:56] <jepler> halcmd: setp stepgen.0.enable true
[18:59:57] <jepler> halcmd: setp stepgen.0.position-scale 1
[18:59:57] <jepler> halcmd: setp stepgen.0.position-cmd 1
[19:00:12] <jepler> ... after a moment,
[19:00:13] <jepler> 12 s32 OUT 1 stepgen.0.counts
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[19:00:19] <jepler> [not all lines in halcmd shown]
[19:01:32] <jepler> (interesting to me is that position-fb doesn't get particularly close to 1 .. it stops short by around 1e-4)
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[19:20:46] <zq> jepler: i just said i did
[19:21:09] <zq> i have a stepper that's knwon to be 200 steps per rev
[19:21:34] <zq> setp stepgen.0.position-scale 1; setp stepgen.0.position-cmd 200 /* half a turn */
[19:21:52] <zq> setp stepgen.0.position-scale 2; setp stepgen.0.position-cmd 200 /* full turn */
[19:22:43] <zq> now i'm noticing mention about doublefreq and doublestep in the git log for stepgen
[19:26:52] <jepler> when I have stepgen position-scale 1 and command a move from 0 to 10, I count ten pulses.
http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/ten-pulses.png
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[19:30:43] <PCW> you probably have a 1/2 stepping driver (full stepping is rare)
[19:30:51] <zq> wait no what i do?
[19:31:31] <zq> wait
[19:31:43] <PCW> full stepping is entirely too boingy
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[20:58:40] <jepler> I guess soembody reads the commit list.
[21:00:47] <seb_kuzminsky> and i guess someone pays attention to the arm buildslave?
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[21:08:59] <jepler> not particularly close attention
[21:09:23] <jepler> I was only looking because of the third-of-a-million warnings that I caused the rtai realtime build to spew
[21:09:30] <jepler> and that only after ntu told me it was bonkers
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[21:36:47] <Tom_itx> unrelated to linuxcnc but i figured you guys would know and i think i do... writing avr asm code someone wants to use a c library is that even possible? seems it would be hard at best
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[21:46:37] <jepler> you have to write the asm code to the "C" calling convention, and you need e.g., the stack register to be set compatibly with C code.
https://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/avr-gcc#Calling_Convention seems to have some salient details
[21:47:27] <jepler> and also pay attention to the call-used registers in a section above
[21:47:43] <Tom_itx> yes
[21:47:50] <Tom_itx> i was looking at a similar doc
[21:48:08] <jepler> and you probably have to link the program-as-a-whole with the C compiler so you have the C runtime
[21:48:10] <Tom_itx> i know it _can_ be done but is it worth it :D
[21:48:42] <Tom_itx> if you don't know the lib, you'd have to push all the regs
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[21:51:29] <jepler> I didn't realize the question was whether it was worth it :-P
[21:51:39] <Tom_itx> haha
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