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[02:45:02] <skunkworks_> heh
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,27119.msg191616.html#msg191616
[02:45:21] <skunkworks_> and hey - I wrote that!
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Oword#Sample_1_One_side_of_a_ball_in_cage
[02:49:01] <skunkworks_> I thought mach4 could do conditionals now - maybe not do / while loops..
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[03:06:19] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks_: I'm not so sure about keeping camunits going
[03:06:40] <CaptHindsight> it really hasn't been touched in 3-4 years except for psha
[03:06:55] <CaptHindsight> and the extras use old libs
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[03:10:57] <CaptHindsight> I'll explore further over the next few days
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[12:03:33] <MrSun_> hmm is dgarr here any ? =)
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[12:34:45] <skunkworks> logger[psha],
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[14:36:33] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 052.6 1497708 06linuxcnc 10configs/sim/axis/xhc-hb04/xhc-hb04.tcl xhc-hbo4: pendant:program-run => halui.mode.auto * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=1497708
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[14:48:34] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/309193 ~130um plated copper hole in FR4 pcb 2 layer, with Sobel edge detect
[14:49:02] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/309199 0.004" (100um) gap with Sobel
[14:50:29] <CaptHindsight> how will people use camunits in Axis? Just for manual vision based edge/center finding or?
[14:52:00] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/309105 ~100um gap, Sobel again
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[14:53:46] <CaptHindsight> I was thinking it could be handy if it could work with easy to drop in Python plug-ins like Gimp features
[14:54:55] <CaptHindsight> so users could perform image enhancement, auto edge finding, auto alignment using fiducials on PCB's etc
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[14:58:44] <archivist> optical cmm :)
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[15:01:51] <kwallace2> This might be of interest, there are some documents at the bottom of the page:
http://www.tormach.com/product_cnc_scanner.html
[15:03:19] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/308971 taken at 1280x960 with ~1" field of view with $30 usb camera
[15:04:03] <kwallace2> I tend to think the automated vision features would not be used by the average hobby machinist.
[15:05:42] <CaptHindsight> would they even use it manually? Like center find in the camera and use the jog buttons?
[15:07:56] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/308971 hole #28 in this pic is
http://imagebin.org/309193
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[15:08:39] <kwallace2> I tend to prefer using a probe rather than the camera.
[15:09:50] <CaptHindsight> using fiducials and camera is really handy when working with PCB's
[15:10:53] <kwallace2> Yeah, using a probe on PCB traces and holes could be a problem.
[15:12:02] <archivist> you can do 3d by adjusting z and looking for focus
[15:12:44] <archivist> seen some machines creating surfaces like that
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[15:13:20] <CaptHindsight> or by having a scale on the surface of the part and moving Z
[15:14:39] <kwallace2> One project I have on the to-do list is mount a pair of laser pointers to my camera. They would be set to converge on the camera focus.
[15:14:45] <archivist> I want it for measuring small gears
[15:14:54] <CaptHindsight> there are only a few working plugins right now for camunits, it might be best to make it as flexible as possible
[15:15:21] <MrSun_> ffs, 1 min ... 1 min he was here!
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[15:16:59] <kwallace2> I seem to recall Camunits is pretty old and could use some attension.
[15:17:27] <CaptHindsight> yeah, not touched except by maybe psha since 2011
[15:17:34] <MrSun_> ahh aparently he fixed just the issue i was wondering about .. or atleast one of them =)
[15:17:54] <kwallace2> oops, attention
[15:17:55] <CaptHindsight> it uses OpenGL, and other libs for the processing
[15:18:22] <MrSun_> haha so he saw it somehow or someone pinged him about it =) cool! =)
[15:18:54] <CaptHindsight> https://code.google.com/p/camunits/
[15:20:31] <CaptHindsight> https://code.google.com/p/camunits/downloads/list heh Jan 2010 4+ years
[15:24:58] <kwallace2> I played with some camera utilities using PyCam, but that has been a while ago.
http://www.pygame.org/docs/ref/camera.html
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[15:35:32] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Chris Radek 05master 10afff3 06linuxcnc 10scripts/torture.py Moving all 9 axes is a better torture test for planners * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=10afff3
[15:35:32] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Chris Radek 05master 7664fd1 06linuxcnc 10configs/sim/axis/axis_9axis.ini To work with the new torture.py * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=7664fd1
[15:36:35] <seb_kuzminsky> nice!
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[15:38:05] <cradek> wowie those are some wonky-looking paths
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[15:42:07] <CaptHindsight> kwallace2: camunits plugs into Axis pretty easily as a Tab
[15:42:31] <CaptHindsight> and PyCam could be a plugin for camunits
[15:43:31] <CaptHindsight> oh sorry nevermind I was thinking of another Python Camera based app
[15:44:49] <kwallace2> Oops, another mistake, I meant to say PyGame not PyCam.
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[15:46:07] <cradek> skunkworks: ^
[15:47:30] <psha[work]> yep, camunits are a bit rotten
[15:47:55] <psha[work]> i've started porting it to gtk3 and gobject introspection
[15:47:59] <psha[work]> but that work stalled
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[15:51:22] <kwallace2> I think CamUnits got a lot of people started with using cameras.
[15:53:39] <Connor> What about using OpenCV ?
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[15:58:32] <kwallace2> I haven't looked at OpenCV yet, because PyGame provided what I needed without much fuss.
[15:59:32] <Connor> A while back.. I was doing some camera stuff for MechWarfare... I found PyGame too slow.. but that was pulling a stream off of a wifi camera with no API support..
[15:59:44] <kwallace2> I have my eye on this camera:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270865573196
[15:59:47] <Connor> I was getting 2 to 4 seconds lag time.
[16:00:01] <CaptHindsight> we should be able to use any libraries
[16:00:35] <Connor> and why is camunits bitrot ? Any way to fork it and continue using it ?
[16:01:28] <CaptHindsight> Connor: thats the question, do we or do we use something else to tie all the imaging libraries into some GUI
[16:02:12] <CaptHindsight> camunits does install into AXIS with little effort
[16:02:13] <Connor> What all are we using at the moment ? camview, camunits ??
[16:02:45] <CaptHindsight> there's no we yet either, psha just got camunits to work as a tab in Axis
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[16:03:27] <Connor> okay.... fine.. what all is currently working?? I have camunits installed.. and a camview and camview-emc
[16:03:29] <CaptHindsight> it can also work stand alone
[16:04:10] <CaptHindsight> that works as a tab in Axis, that is it so far
[16:07:18] <Connor> and are you still talking passive use, or active use at this point ? I'm starting to think just using a touch probe would be more accurate and easier.
[16:08:15] <CaptHindsight> I'm using vision for all sorts of active applications such as edge detection, defect detection, scanning etc etc
[16:09:11] <CaptHindsight> now I'm just asking about what everyone else might be interested in with a camera/vision system
[16:09:57] <archivist> I use a measuring microscope at the moment till something better comes along that suits me
[16:12:37] <archivist> I often measure angles that way
[16:14:30] <CaptHindsight> most of my applications are additive or hybrids, inkjetting onto non-planar surfaces, adding plastics to the metal core of a part, printing a blood vessel in liver tissue
[16:14:43] <Connor> edge detection / center finding passive or active... would be my uses...
[16:15:05] <archivist> me measuring a gear
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=microscope+PD+travelling
[16:15:13] <CaptHindsight> I'm just looking at what might make sense for the widest audience
[16:16:13] <Connor> How DO you measure a angle when it's beveled like that?
[16:16:41] <CaptHindsight> camunits has it's own GUI or can be a tab in Axis, I guess as long as anyone can easily plug in their tools everyone should be happy
[16:17:10] <archivist> I am looking for certain standard angles at the PCD so easy enough to guess in that example
[16:17:41] <CaptHindsight> GIMP has a dropdown to access your plugins written in Python
[16:19:35] <CaptHindsight> as long as the framework is there people can add vision based measurement, edge detect, center detect, auto ZERO, align to the fiducials etc
[16:20:13] <archivist> sequence of images in Z to get a 3d profile too :)
[16:21:11] <Connor> OKay. So, I have a question.. How important is it to have the focal length the same every time you use it for edge and center finding ?
[16:21:56] <archivist> if the focal length is fixed your Z movements will have stable numbers
[16:22:06] <archivist> and can be calibrated
[16:22:38] <Connor> I got a cheap $4 USB camera.. manual focus.. was planning on using it..
[16:23:24] <Connor> I'll need to make something to lock the lens in place so it doesn't get adjusted by accident...
[16:23:31] <CaptHindsight> all my pics above are with <$40 usb cams
[16:24:08] <Connor> I need to make a spindle mount for it..
[16:24:08] <CaptHindsight> I also have one of those $4 usb cams with the LED's you showed me on my desk
[16:24:28] <Connor> and re-package it into a better case...
[16:24:40] <Connor> not sure how useful the LED's are..
[16:24:58] <archivist> I have grotty usb microscope camera
[16:24:59] <CaptHindsight> they help when in a dark room :)
[16:25:20] <archivist> lighting can make the difference
[16:25:56] <Connor> In my testing it washed the image out and with metal, made it very hard to see the edges due to glare..
[16:25:58] <archivist> sometimes you need back light for tool profile
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[16:28:05] <archivist> and often you need the camera to move to find the item and also the tool
[16:28:52] <archivist> which may mean not on the same axis as either
[16:28:54] <CaptHindsight> a small bulb sprayer with fine powder also knocks down the glare
[16:28:56] <Connor> archivist: In what use are you talking about tool profile and having it move ?
[16:29:03] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/target.php
[16:29:30] <Connor> okay, so, you have the camera mounted all the time ?
[16:29:30] <archivist> that image one needs to see the gear centre ans also the cutter centre line
[16:29:44] <skunkworks> cradek, Thank you!!!
[16:29:55] <archivist> that was sat on the X or Y at the time
[16:30:17] <archivist> but needed its own axis
[16:31:16] <archivist> yes the date on the image was when I gave that up as "needing more work to be usable"
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[17:49:30] <psha[work]> Connor: camunits is not rotten but stalled
[17:49:46] <psha[work]> works fine with gtk2
[17:50:30] <Connor> psha[work]: What all is used to get camera showing up in linuxcnc? I had to install several things.. Looks like camview, camuinits and your plugins ?
[17:50:33] <psha[work]> but it's best capture framework i've seen
[17:50:43] <psha[work]> yep
[17:51:09] <Connor> Any issues with the fact that's it's stalled ?
[17:53:04] <psha[work]> no issues until gtk2 will be deprecated and removed from repos
[17:53:19] <psha[work]> main glib is rocksolid and stable
[17:53:35] <psha[work]> camunits is glib based framework
[17:53:43] <psha[work]> only possible problems with viewer
[17:53:49] <Connor> Then I say keep using it...
[17:54:15] <CaptHindsight> as long as we can easily add imaging libs
[17:54:53] <psha[work]> CaptHindsight: what is 'imaging lib'?
[17:55:31] <CaptHindsight> and be able to easily string image processing functions together
[17:55:48] <CaptHindsight> image processing libraries
[17:56:35] <psha[work]> like opencv?
[17:57:13] <CaptHindsight> with camunits you pick a source, imaging function say color space conversion and then an output
[17:58:11] <CaptHindsight> as long as users can easily add new functions between camera and output it's fine
[17:58:21] <psha[work]> and that's why i've picked camunits
[17:58:22] <CaptHindsight> yes, like openCV for one
[17:58:32] <psha[work]> plugin api
[17:58:47] <psha[work]> not trivial but it's not hard to add plugins
[17:59:08] <CaptHindsight> may a wrapper to make it easier
[17:59:44] <CaptHindsight> it should be easy like script-fu and pyhton-fu in Gimp
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[18:00:41] <psha[work]> maybe
[18:00:54] <CaptHindsight> people will most likely want to play with contrast, thresholds, Sobel, Laplace, pixel counting etc
[18:00:56] <psha[work]> i've thought about writing python wrappers for plugins
[18:01:22] <psha[work]> however writing C plugins are not hard too
[18:01:26] <CaptHindsight> edge find, count pixel between edges
[18:01:38] <CaptHindsight> yeah but many people don't write C
[18:02:45] <CaptHindsight> being able to work with image-magik or graphics-magik for example
[18:02:59] <CaptHindsight> you don't have to know who to write code to use them
[18:03:26] <CaptHindsight> lots of CNC users aren't programmers
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[18:04:42] <CaptHindsight> and a way to connect it to HAL for auto functions
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[18:05:15] <CaptHindsight> scan while jog until a feature is found, then ZERO
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[18:15:01] <archivist> I dont really expect pythong to be quick enough for jog to feature
[18:17:52] <psha[work]> archivist: why not, via opencv bindings?
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[18:19:49] <CaptHindsight> for people streaming video while controlling movement they probably won't be using $20 usb cams
[18:19:56] <archivist> opencv yes because it is C
[18:20:34] <CaptHindsight> but for static images and making measurements based on the distance between pixels that would be fine
[18:22:11] <CaptHindsight> even for auto ZERO, stop motion, take a pic measure offset, move, stop, take a pic, measure offset, move and ZERO
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[18:23:59] <CaptHindsight> we were doing this back in 84' with PC-XT's and array processors over ISA bus
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[18:28:38] <archivist> yes taking the hard work out to hardware
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[18:34:02] <CaptHindsight> 8Mhz 8b wide PLD's :)
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[18:36:27] <archivist> we were experimenting with an averaging frame grabber (ttl alu)
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_10_15_PCB_design/IMG_0353.JPG bottom pcb
[18:37:47] <CaptHindsight> looks like my old stuff, i just got rid of some old wire wrapped ALU boards
[18:37:53] <archivist> had to spend a few k upgrading the PC memory for that pcb
[18:38:21] <archivist> that was 4 layer and used vram
[18:38:21] <CaptHindsight> 640k should be enough :)
[18:38:35] <archivist> it was not enough :)
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[18:39:09] <archivist> got the 1mb expanded memory card
[18:45:37] <CaptHindsight> we mostly used Imaging Technology boards back then, the first RS-170 real time frame grabber was a big deal even though it only could capture one frame
[18:46:55] <archivist> our first grabber was to add printing to video terminals
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[18:48:18] <CaptHindsight> we used it mostly to restore old films, reduce noise in analog TV and video
[18:49:07] <archivist> I have a few PYE live averagers for 625 colour, came from a TV studio
[18:49:47] <archivist> effin heavy, as they have linear supplies for the ecl
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[18:50:32] <CaptHindsight> then it was on to non-linear noise reduction (despeckle) for satellite TV over C-band (4Ghz)
[18:51:00] <CaptHindsight> before Ku band and smaller antennas came along
[18:52:40] <CaptHindsight> 4x oversampling so it was ~14Mhz sample rate at 8-10 bits per pixel
[18:54:37] <CaptHindsight> now all these applications come as sample filters in the free disk packed with your $4 usb webcam
[18:54:59] <archivist> and bog down your cpu :)
[18:56:29] <CaptHindsight> 1GB of ram recommended minimum :)
[18:58:44] <CaptHindsight> and that's just for the dancing paper clip
[19:00:08] <archivist> was at customers the other day and a trivial wages program wanted 2gb
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[19:37:06] <skunkworks_> logger[psha]:
[19:37:11] <skunkworks_> cradek:
http://imagebin.org/309413
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[19:39:17] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks_: i'm getting sea-sick!
[19:39:44] <cradek> that looks promising
[19:39:47] <cradek> which planner?
[19:40:09] <skunkworks_> robs..
[19:40:13] <skunkworks_> going to try master now
[19:40:19] <cradek> oh good, don't test mine
[19:40:25] <cradek> :-)
[19:40:27] <seb_kuzminsky> i still owe rob a runtest for his planner
[19:40:42] <seb_kuzminsky> maybe i'll find time for it at the hackspace tonight
[19:40:50] <skunkworks_> well - the 90deg/s is a bit high..
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[19:55:48] <micges> cradek: seb_kuzminsky: mesaflash3 functionality is complete, I'll make PCI/ETH/EPP/USB tests today and then it will be ready to packaging
[19:56:26] <seb_kuzminsky> micges: great!
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[19:57:36] <skunkworks_> cradek: your planner...
http://imagebin.org/309418
[19:58:03] <skunkworks_> what is interesting is it takes a little less time...
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[19:58:48] <skunkworks_> oh - could be because of the y axis constraint violatoions? no clue
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[20:05:07] <cradek> on mine, I can't even tell what the maxes are supposed to be :-/
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[23:23:28] <tinkerer> greeting all
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[23:24:10] <tinkerer> @camunits
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[23:27:45] <tinkerer> compiling camunits after linux v3.9 requires removing the lines 376 & 377 in plugins/v4l2/input_v4l2.c
[23:29:06] <tinkerer> just FYI
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