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[00:49:45] <andypugh> dgarr: You are way ahead of me, I didn't even know you could shorten the commands.
[00:50:24] <dgarr> if you mean gitl, it's just a bash alias
[00:50:54] <cradek> dgarr: we'll have to wait for seb - I still need manpage in-hand when using rebase
[00:51:12] <dgarr> ok thanks -- it's beyond me
[00:51:13] <cradek> ... this may not be the same thing at all
[00:51:23] <andypugh> I tend to work in a feature branch locally, eventually combune my work onto one commit, check out master, cherry-pick that commit, then push.
[00:51:29] <cradek> recommend adding --graph to your gitl, because you can see merges then
[00:51:54] <cradek> if you rebased your branch correctly (moved it from one point on master to another) it's expected that you'll have to --force your push
[00:52:01] <andypugh> Not because that is the right thing to do, it is the wrong thing to do, but it is all I know how to make happen
[00:52:03] <cradek> so you may not have anything wrong at all
[00:52:45] <cradek> if you look at gitk or git log --graph you might see it better
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[00:55:19] <cradek> I think your rebase was right
[00:56:03] <cradek> I don't think you've got a problem at all; you've just got to force your push because you rebased (rewrote history)
[00:56:11] <cradek> and this is fine to do in a dgarr/* branch
[00:56:46] <dgarr> i never have had to force, let me try that with dry-run
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[00:57:14] <cradek> I'd like to see a screenshot of gitk for good measure
[00:57:30] <cradek> or the same thing: git log --graph --decorate
[00:58:01] <dgarr> git push --dry-run --force origin dgarr/demo_apps shows no errors so maybe thats ok , should i just do that?
[00:58:19] <cradek> I think so, but let's look at it once more first
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[01:01:18] <dgarr> http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/gitk.png
[01:01:58] <cradek> that looks perfect
[01:02:11] <dgarr> so i should try the --force?
[01:02:13] <cradek> you just moved that branch of one commit with rebase
[01:02:15] <andypugh> I need to make a trivial push, I have dropped out of History :-)
[01:02:31] <cradek> yes use --force
[01:03:13] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/demo_apps 85b3caf 06linuxcnc 10(19 files in 6 dirs) linuxcnc.in,pickconfig.tcl: support .demo files * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=85b3caf
[01:03:21] <cradek> yay
[01:03:26] <andypugh> (hardly surprising, I have been bashing metal, not code, for months)
[01:04:08] <cradek> andypugh: what do you mean dropped out of History?
[01:04:14] <dgarr> ok -- thanks i guess i have to study when --force is required, i didn't find the git messages very helpful
[01:04:24] <andypugh> (Question) Does anyone actually _want_ the tool table work? I pushed a branch, there was no comment.
[01:04:45] <cradek> as soon as you rebased the branch that you had previously pushed, it became neccessary
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[01:05:20] <cradek> you rewrote the existing branch (by moving it to a new parent) instead of just piling more commits on top of it ("fast-forward")
[01:06:12] <cradek> the non-fast-forward message means the git server detected you are trying to do something OTHER than just pile new commits on top of existing stuff, so it stops you and makes you think twice, and force it if that's what you meant
[01:07:30] <cradek> (and it's not you - pretty much all of the git UI is obtuse and incomprehensible)
[01:09:06] <dgarr> your explanation helps, its funny the git message (dry-run, no force) had 1 error line and 4 'hint' lines but even now the text confuses me
[01:09:21] <cradek> andypugh: I think yes people really want it, including me. I bet all our brains are full of ubc3 stuff though.
[01:11:13] <cradek> I think they added the hints recently - it used to just say "nope, failed, non-fast-forward"
[01:11:22] <andypugh> That could be it. I do intend to get back to it. It would be easier if I actuallly needed it, I think. I am mainly doing it because I said I would, and started it before I realised the scope.
[01:11:58] <cradek> yuck, that sure makes it hard.
[01:12:57] <andypugh> It does need doing. It is only when you look at tool offsets that you realise how oddly handled they are.
[01:13:34] <andypugh> But making them less odd touches more than (say) the TP work.
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[01:14:06] <andypugh> Less than mah's "expunge NML" ambition though.
[01:14:50] <cradek> yes he's not shy
[01:15:09] <cradek> the biggest thing I see people want every day is "also apply tool offset #N"
[01:15:32] <cradek> or more specifically "apply offsets #1 and #10", although I see the general solution as "also"
[01:15:46] <andypugh> I am quite liking that there is more appetite for big changes now than there was. The JMK "why jog while paused is hard" document is interesting reading now. I rather find myself thinking "Not _that_ hard, then"
[01:17:29] <cradek> jogging while paused is simple and can just be hacked in. (note: simple != easy) changing the tool offset is the complex (and important) part and takes fundamental changes.
[01:17:52] <andypugh> The hard thing is tool database + offset when paused + lookahead. I think we need to dump the queue much more readily. With modern hardware that is likely to be hardly any penalty at all. But It takes a lit of work to test.
[01:18:59] <andypugh> it isn't "hard" is is just "big"
[01:21:49] <andypugh> What I still need to work out is the difference between comitted database state and internal lookahead tool database state. I rather suspect that _any_ tool geometry change has to instantly invalidate the motion queue. Which is probably no penalty at all in practice. I doubt anyone demands smooth motion thorugh a G10.
[01:22:42] <cradek> G10 of tool stuff doesn't change anything about the path
[01:23:06] <cradek> only at G41/42/43 time
[01:23:28] <cradek> when those happen you need to get the latest
[01:23:44] <cradek> but I bet nobody cares about queueing past them at all
[01:23:58] <cradek> because they never? happen when the tool is touching the work
[01:25:42] <andypugh> Quite. I suspect that you probably can maintain the queue through a G10, but it complicates the internal view of tool state. It is much easier to not try, and to have the tool table "always true, right now"
[01:27:15] <zultron> Hrm, was dgarr's problem not that he didn't do a 'git fetch origin' first?
[01:27:26] <andypugh> I probably need to talk to Robert too, as the other person in the word who has a clue about the TP
[01:27:51] <cradek> I don't think dgarr had anything wrong at all
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[01:28:30] <cradek> he rebased a branch he had previously pushed, but didn't realize that would cause a --force to be required
[01:28:43] <zultron> Once he did the 'rebase origin/master', he should've had a fast-forwardable branch.
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[01:29:06] <zultron> When he tried to do the push, the server complained that it wasn't fast-forwardable.
[01:29:21] <cradek> but he was pushing his feature, not master
[01:29:23] <zultron> That probably means there were commits added to origin/master that he hadn't fetched yet.
[01:29:37] <zultron> Oh, missed that. Whew!
[01:29:53] <zultron> Aha: git push --dry-run origin dgarr/demo_apps
[01:30:20] <andypugh> Why is it that I admire Git and hate windows? The former actually gets in my way more often.
[01:31:18] <zultron> git's a lot of extra typing, but worth the effort.
[01:32:20] <andypugh> Though, I did recently find a truly annoying Windows/Excel issue. Even Stackoverflow was mute:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22071347/excel-vba-ribbon-getenabled-not-called-when-code-running
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[01:33:11] <cradek> I don't even know what ways windows is irritating lately, so I can't comment
[01:33:36] <cradek> but surely it's like comparing apples and ... submarines?
[01:34:26] <cradek> I must have the one IT job in the world where I don't have to deal with windows at all
[01:35:00] <linuxcnc-build> build #1882 of 0000.checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/0000.checkin/builds/1882 blamelist: Chris Radek <chris@timeguy.com>
[01:35:40] <andypugh> I accidentally buuilt a 20,000 loc Excel macro,
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[01:36:07] <cradek> hm, wonder what on earth that means
[01:36:08] <andypugh> (If I had known what it would become, I would have started somewhere else)
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[01:36:27] <andypugh> (loc == lines of code)
[01:36:49] <cradek> haha
[01:37:18] <andypugh> It was useful, I used it, I emailed it to colleagues, it grew...
[01:37:49] <andypugh> Then they said "can it do this"and Lo! it could y doubling in size
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[01:42:32] <andypugh> Currently it can work with either
http://www.accuratetechnologies.com/content/view/178/174/lang,en/ or
http://www.etas.com/en/products/inca.php (via wrapper classes, so actually you can work with both at the same time) to do almost anything to a vehicle ECO, while at the same time also talking to
https://www.avl.com/puma-open to control an engine test bed. The fact it runs in Excel is purely an accident that lets me
[01:42:33] <andypugh> email a "spreadsheet" to colleagues without anyone realising that actually is is software.
[01:44:12] <cradek> wow, I bet you could be mistaken for an expert in windows stuff.
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[01:44:53] <andypugh> And, frankly, the VBA IDE is a nice place to work, breakpoints, seeing inside objects, all unavoidably Object oriented (as you can only actually _see_ from inside a huge object model.
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[01:46:49] <andypugh> Seriously, if you know anyone who wants to learn OO then tell them to try Excel VBA. it's OO but effectively interpreted, so runtime debuggable/ viewable/ etc.
[01:47:26] <andypugh> And you can't cheat, you are inserted at the bottom of the object structure.
[01:48:30] <andypugh> And when you type a dot after your variable, there is a drop-down of the availaible properties/methods.
[01:49:47] <andypugh> <ahem, tries to regain Linux-cred> It is fundamentally flawed in many ways, of course, especially philosophical ones.
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[02:38:10] <skunkworks> I use VB for applications in ms access.. it is surprisingly powerful...
[02:40:16] <skunkworks> we have made some wicked database applications with it pretty quickly
[02:40:24] <skunkworks> for internal stuff.
[02:42:14] <andypugh> Yes, like, for example, triviallly just deleting all the standard menus.
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[02:55:28] <linuxcnc-build> build #37 of 4017.deb-wheezy-armhf is complete: Failure [4failed apt-get-update shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/4017.deb-wheezy-armhf/builds/37 blamelist: Dewey Garrett <dgarrett@panix.com>
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[04:40:04] <linuxcnc-build> build #38 of 4017.deb-wheezy-armhf is complete: Failure [4failed apt-get-update shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/4017.deb-wheezy-armhf/builds/38 blamelist: dummy, Dewey Garrett <dgarrett@panix.com>
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[14:15:21] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Norbert Schechner 05master 5e077fb 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/gmoccapy/gmoccapy.py 10src/emc/usr_intf/gmoccapy/release_notes.txt gmoccapy_1_0_6_1 - error pin correction * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=5e077fb
[14:15:21] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Norbert Schechner 05master 7424158 06linuxcnc Merge branch 'master' of ssh://norbert@git.linuxcnc.org/git/linuxcnc.git * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=7424158
[14:26:01] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Norbert Schechner 05master e1d36aa 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/gmoccapy/gmoccapy.glade 10src/emc/usr_intf/gmoccapy/gmoccapy.py 10src/emc/usr_intf/gmoccapy/release_notes.txt gmoccapy_1_0_6_2 - changed standard settings ob box_custom_? * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=e1d36aa
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[15:40:48] <linuxcnc-build> build #39 of 4017.deb-wheezy-armhf is complete: Failure [4failed apt-get-update shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/4017.deb-wheezy-armhf/builds/39 blamelist: Norbert Schechner <nieson@web.de>
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[16:13:33] <norbert> Someone here to tell me how to add a message to linuxcnc.error_chanel with python code?
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[17:22:27] <linuxcnc-build> build #40 of 4017.deb-wheezy-armhf is complete: Failure [4failed apt-get-update shell_3] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/4017.deb-wheezy-armhf/builds/40 blamelist: Norbert Schechner <nieson@web.de>
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[17:24:57] <norbert> Not me again, please!
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[17:29:06] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[17:29:16] <seb_kuzminsky> not your fault this time ;-)
[17:29:33] <seb_kuzminsky> your branch is based on master, which doesn't build on armhf
[17:29:56] <seb_kuzminsky> the 'build rip and runtests' builder knows not to try, but the deb builder doesn't know not to try
[17:30:09] <seb_kuzminsky> notice that the name of the failed builder is deb-wheezy-armhf
[17:30:45] <norbert> OK but I do not like to get blamed ;-)
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[17:34:04] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
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[20:04:24] <jonasthomas> hello Is anyone here versed into running linux cnc beagle bone black. I trying to figure out how to get X-windows running on a remote desktop.
[20:04:56] <jonasthomas> mhaberler are you around?
[20:05:11] <mhaberler> yes
[20:05:53] <jonasthomas> ah.. I think was reading a blog that you've been playing around with the beaglebone and linux cnc... Is that correct?
[20:05:54] <mhaberler> did you try export DISPLAY=<ip of X server host>:0.0 - at least thats what I use
[20:06:06] <mhaberler> playing around... sort of correct
[20:07:03] <mhaberler> there are various other ways, like tunneling over ssh but that slows down quit a bit
[20:07:15] <jonasthomas> Oh boy this is really a dumb question... Ip of X server host is for the BBB?
[20:07:47] <mhaberler> it is the address of the X server, i.e. the machine running the display
[20:08:01] <jonasthomas> Ahhh...
[20:08:04] <mhaberler> you execute that on the BB before you start linuxcnc
[20:08:32] <mhaberler> whatever your host is - some people even use windows X servers, but on linux ifconfig will tell you the interface address
[20:08:38] <jonasthomas> So I could put that in the /home/.bashrc
[20:08:57] <mhaberler> that is what I do, but I do have a stable IP address setup
[20:09:33] <mhaberler> it might not be useful to save in .bashrc if you use DHCP and get different addresses all the time
[20:10:14] <jonasthomas> At the moment I have the usb cable from my laptop to the BBB
[20:10:20] <mhaberler> before this works you need to enable remote X access on the display
[20:10:28] <mhaberler> well thats just an IP link, right?
[20:10:47] <mhaberler> ethernet over usb I assume
[20:11:03] <mhaberler> so you have an ip address on the display host, I hope?
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[20:11:34] <jonasthomas> ummm... hold on let me try a few things.
[20:14:39] <mhaberler> anyway, before firing off linuxcnc on the display host you execute something like 'xhost <ip address of beaglebone>'
[20:15:00] <mhaberler> which will allow bb X clients to connect to the X display server
[20:16:24] <jonasthomas> Oh boy I'm confused at the moment(which isn't too hard to do ;) )
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[21:47:05] <jonasthomas> mhaberler are you still around?
[21:47:15] <mhaberler> yes
[21:48:40] <jonasthomas> I think I had everything setup ok... I had shh connection going to the bone and a regular terminal connection.. I had them ping each other..
[21:49:08] <jonasthomas> I open up a vnc to the bone had that working
[21:49:58] <jonasthomas> I did the DISPLAY = .... from the VNC and that seemed to work.
[21:50:26] <jonasthomas> did the xhost ... that worked...
[21:50:52] <jonasthomas> when I fired up linuxcnc &
[21:50:54] <jonasthomas> I got a unable to connect.
[21:51:27] <mhaberler> why vnc?
[21:51:55] <jonasthomas> I thought I needed that.
[21:52:10] <mhaberler> did you use any instructions from somewhere already, and if so, which ones - please point me to them?
[21:52:45] <jonasthomas> Not directly... I had someone who was doing stuff with RPI and I sort of adapted.
[21:53:02] <mhaberler> and where was that ?
[21:53:34] <jonasthomas> at the hacker space I belong to.. Not directly published.
[21:53:38] <mhaberler> aha
[21:54:02] <mhaberler> well I cant help you with that because I havent seen that, so hard to comment
[21:54:13] <mhaberler> I can tell you what I use
[21:54:39] <jonasthomas> I understand.
[21:54:40] <jonasthomas> I think the issue with the rpi was that you couldn't do it over usb... I wonder if the same applies to bbb
[21:54:40] <mhaberler> you seem to have some X server running on the BB?
[21:54:53] <jonasthomas> tinyvnc
[21:54:57] <mhaberler> aha
[21:55:39] <mhaberler> well vnc will have rather poor performance for the graphics remotely, which is why I use a direct X connection
[21:55:58] <jonasthomas> if you hook up a bbb to a laptop over ethernet do you need a crossover cable?
[21:56:35] <mhaberler> if you can ping vice versa, it should not matter - an IP connection is all that is needed, that has nothing to do which medium it goes over
[21:56:42] <mhaberler> I take that works?
[21:57:05] <mhaberler> as I understand from above
[21:57:53] <jonasthomas> I had a ethernet cable to router to BBB. bbb ->usb-> laptop that worked and I could update the bbb.
[21:58:24] <jonasthomas> bbb-> Ethernet-> laptop does not.
[21:58:39] <jonasthomas> hense the crossover question
[21:58:46] <mhaberler> and the laptop runs... what, linux, windows?
[21:58:47] <mhaberler> mac?
[21:59:01] <jonasthomas> 64 bit 12.04 ubuntu
[21:59:10] <mhaberler> aha
[21:59:55] <mhaberler> well likely that ethernet/laptop/bbb thing is merely a dhcp server is missing on the laptop, but it dont matter for now if you have IP connectivity one way or the other
[22:00:14] <jonasthomas> so your saying I can fire up linuxcnc without VNC..
[22:00:21] <mhaberler> yes
[22:00:34] <jonasthomas> ah.. my misunderstanding...
[22:00:56] <mhaberler> and it will perform better because VNC works at the copy-bitmap-over-tcp level which is a lot of traffic and cycles with fast updating grahics
[22:01:06] <jonasthomas> Ok.. let me do so rewiring... and try this again..
[22:01:25] <jonasthomas> Cool... so you do this over usb or over ethernet?
[22:01:30] <mhaberler> it is not important _how_ you get from a to be
[22:01:41] <mhaberler> if you can ping from either side you are fine
[22:01:56] <mhaberler> you can, I assume?
[22:02:27] <jonasthomas> ok.. let me try this again.. (I was till I started rewiring... back to where I was... Back in a few...
[22:02:46] <mhaberler> choose whatever works to ping from either side
[22:07:07] <jonasthomas> So this is coming to you from Laptop-> usb-> BBB-> to->ethernet -> router (I'm amazed that this works so easily)
[22:07:33] <mhaberler> I do not understand ?
[22:08:05] <mhaberler> probably the easiest thing is: plug both bb and laptop into router over ethernet
[22:08:52] <mhaberler> the router will give ip addresses to both; obviously the laptop wont give an ip address to a client like the bb because it is a dhcp client
[22:09:10] <mhaberler> (in case you connect them directly)
[22:09:37] <mhaberler> re crossover - these times are pretty much past, nowadays most ethernet plugs autodetect sex
[22:10:48] <mhaberler> (note this is neither a linuxcnc nor a development issue - it is basic networking so this is kind of the wrong forum)
[22:11:44] <jonasthomas> unfortunately I don't have the cabling and a wall wart with me at the moment
[22:12:16] <mhaberler> are you saying you power the bb over usb?
[22:12:28] <jonasthomas> yes
[22:12:45] <mhaberler> this is very likely to fail, because of power consumption
[22:13:12] <jonasthomas> at this point, its a bare bbb nothing hooked up... Just for play.
[22:13:46] <mhaberler> well yes, I assume you have the linuxcnc SD image on it, and hence the xenomai kernel
[22:13:49] <mhaberler> right?
[22:14:30] <jonasthomas> I got everything from
http://blog.machinekit.io/p/machinekit_16.html
[22:14:36] <mhaberler> ok
[22:15:11] <mhaberler> this means you run the xenomai kernel, which disables power saving to gain RT performance, and this is why USB power is likely to be insufficient
[22:16:02] <mhaberler> it might look it works, then keels over - I found this not to work reliably without a good external 5V supply (good = > 2amps)
[22:16:23] <mhaberler> a USB port can only feed up to 0.5amps
[22:16:33] <mhaberler> anyway this is an unrelated issue
[22:16:44] <jonasthomas> The lights all seem to be blinking but when I get a wall wart I'll get one.. good point..
[22:16:54] <mhaberler> see?
[22:17:10] <mhaberler> anyway, assume you have a good power supply
[22:17:24] <mhaberler> and an IP link, say through the router
[22:17:45] <mhaberler> you can log into the bb from the laptop, can you ? I assume you did so before?
[22:18:35] <jonasthomas> ok.. I have an ssh terminal session to the bone and a terminal session to the laptop... I'm able to ping between the two... So on to the next steps.
[22:18:45] <mhaberler> excellent
[22:19:11] <mhaberler> now record these steps:
[22:19:24] <mhaberler> record IP address of BB
[22:19:33] <mhaberler> record IP address of laptop
[22:19:39] <mhaberler> on laptop, do:
[22:19:53] <mhaberler> xhost <substitute ip address of bb>
[22:20:09] <mhaberler> on bb do this:
[22:20:23] <mhaberler> export DISPLAY=<laptop ip address>:0.0
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[22:20:32] <mhaberler> then run linuxcnc
[22:21:04] <mhaberler> disable or remove that tinyvnc thing first
[22:21:10] <mhaberler> done
[22:21:12] <jonasthomas> I did that and got
[22:21:14] <jonasthomas> Application initialization failed: couldn't connect to display "192.168.7.1:0.1
[22:21:31] <mhaberler> that is not what I said if you compare to above line
[22:21:37] <mhaberler> I wrote:
[22:21:42] <mhaberler> export DISPLAY=<laptop ip address>:0.0
[22:21:50] <mhaberler> so the 0.1 comes from somewhere else
[22:22:15] <jonasthomas> hmm..
[22:22:37] <mhaberler> if you run a shell and do this:
[22:22:52] <mhaberler> $ export DISPLAY=1.2.1.4:0.0
[22:22:54] <mhaberler> then run
[22:22:58] <mhaberler> $ linuxcnc
[22:23:32] <mhaberler> it is impossible you get "couldn't connect to display "1.2.3.4:0.1"
[22:23:38] <mhaberler> note trailing '1'
[22:24:13] <mhaberler> the above commands (export, linuxcnc) must be run from the BB in the same shell
[22:25:14] <mhaberler> it looks like you still have this tinyvnc thing running - remove it
[22:25:33] <mhaberler> make sure there is no X server or Xvnc running on the BB
[22:26:03] <jonasthomas> At this point, I think I might need to redo the sd card and start from ground zero.. I think I did do much messing around to trust anything...
[22:26:46] <mhaberler> was there a tinyvnc on Charles' image? I dont think there i
[22:26:47] <mhaberler> s
[22:27:08] <jonasthomas> No I loaded that from debian
[22:27:18] <mhaberler> aha, then remove it
[22:27:36] <mhaberler> like 'apt-get remove <whatever that package name was>'
[22:27:46] <mhaberler> no need to restart a new image
[22:28:19] <jonasthomas> Ok..
[22:31:28] <jonasthomas> I'm being called to chores... ;( bbl.
[22:31:36] <mhaberler> ok
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[23:00:11] <seb_kuzminsky> linuxcnc-build: force build --branch=unified-build-candidate-3 0000.checkin
[23:00:12] <linuxcnc-build> build forced [ETA 1h32m29s]
[23:00:12] <linuxcnc-build> I'll give a shout when the build finishes
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[23:25:41] <linuxcnc-build> build #35 of 1401.rip-wheezy-amd64 is complete: Failure [4failed compile runtests] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/1401.rip-wheezy-amd64/builds/35
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[23:27:16] <linuxcnc-build> build #35 of 1400.rip-wheezy-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed compile runtests] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/1400.rip-wheezy-i386/builds/35
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