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[00:20:39] <linuxcnc-build> build #3 of wheezy-armhf-sim is complete: Failure [4failed apt-get-update compile runtests] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/wheezy-armhf-sim/builds/3
[00:20:39] <linuxcnc-build> build #1821 of checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/checkin/builds/1821
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[01:02:22] <andypugh> seb_kuzminsky: Sorry, wasn't paying attention. The Udoo builds a kernel in about 20 mins, and LinuxCNC would be faster.
[01:03:01] <Tom_itx> that's pretty quick
[01:03:18] <andypugh> I have only built LinuxCNC once on it, because the kernel part is currently the problem.
[01:03:38] <Tom_itx> is it the best arm contender so far?
[01:04:17] <andypugh> Possibly. It's got a fair bit of CPU and 72(?) directly accessible IO lines.
[01:04:34] <andypugh> (which are Arduino-shield compatible in layout)
[01:04:35] <Tom_itx> what about interface to mesa
[01:04:38] <Tom_itx> spi?
[01:04:55] <andypugh> I think there is SPI too, I haven't tried it.
[01:05:06] <Tom_itx> or is he planing a board for it
[01:05:28] <Tom_itx> wasn't somebody working on a fpga for it?
[01:05:55] <andypugh> There is also an actual Arduino on the board that shares the IO. Like the Beagle PRU, but programmable by mortals.
[01:06:17] <Tom_itx> standard arduino bootloader?
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[01:07:32] <andypugh> Largely. There are some quirks. But you can basically run the Arduino IDE on the Arm and download the "sketch" to the Arduino
[01:08:22] <Tom_itx> does it give you the arm - avr pin interface?
[01:08:32] <Tom_itx> and which avr is on it?
[01:08:35] <Tom_itx> the 2560?
[01:08:56] <andypugh> I have been distracted by other part of the puzzle.
[01:09:06] <Tom_itx> yeah i bet
[01:09:07] <andypugh> It is basically a 3.3V Mega,
[01:10:04] <Tom_itx> i never got into arm programming
[01:10:07] <Tom_itx> avr a bit
[01:10:23] <andypugh> details at www.udoo.org if you care to look.
[01:10:32] <Tom_itx> i'm looking
[01:11:09] <Tom_itx> how's the kernel coming?
[01:11:42] <andypugh> Went skiing, came back to a Game of Thrones series III DVD pack, lost focus :_)
[01:12:27] <andypugh> Might get back to it, might do something else.
[01:12:49] <andypugh> That's the problem with us hobby-ists
[01:12:57] <Tom_itx> yup
[01:13:04] <Tom_itx> i've got boxes of undone stuff
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[04:06:41] <seb_kuzminsky> linuxcnc-build: force build --branch=unified-build-candidate-3 checkin
[04:06:42] <linuxcnc-build> build #1822 forced
[04:06:42] <linuxcnc-build> I'll give a shout when the build finishes
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[04:09:08] <seb_kuzminsky> ooh, the big udoo board has a sata connector, so you dont have to run off those goofy little flash cards
[04:10:16] <pcw_home_> That makes a big difference speed wise
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[04:23:18] <Tom_itx> stuff a ssd on it
[04:25:10] <seb_kuzminsky> http://linuxgizmos.com/first-linux-based-3d-printers-hit-the-market/
[04:26:29] <seb_kuzminsky> "Angstrom Linux build on a TI ARM9 processor"
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[07:16:59] <linuxcnc-build> build #4 of wheezy-armhf-sim is complete: Failure [4failed apt-get-update compile runtests] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/wheezy-armhf-sim/builds/4
[07:16:59] <linuxcnc-build> build #1822 of checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/checkin/builds/1822
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[07:37:14] <zultron> A friend at Dell said they're about to start selling MakerBots.
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[13:53:53] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Jeff Epler 05master 90984a0 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/rs274ngc/rs274ngc_pre.cc interp: don't close log file if it's stderr * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=90984a0
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[14:00:48] <linuxcnc-build> build #5 of wheezy-armhf-sim is complete: Failure [4failed apt-get-update compile] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/wheezy-armhf-sim/builds/5 blamelist: Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net>
[14:42:09] <linuxcnc-build> build #1823 of checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/checkin/builds/1823 blamelist: Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net>
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[17:01:55] <seb_kuzminsky> this looks like the best bang/buck for arm build systems:
http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G138733896281
[17:02:20] <seb_kuzminsky> quad Cortex-A9 at 1.7 GHz, 2 GB RAM, $60
[17:02:40] <seb_kuzminsky> it's useless as a cnc controller because it has no IO pins, but it'd be fine for a build system
[17:02:50] <seb_kuzminsky> the manufacturer provides debian images
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[17:05:34] <pcw_home> USB hard drive?
[17:06:02] <seb_kuzminsky> microSD
[17:06:09] <seb_kuzminsky> and it's got a couple of usb ports
[17:09:09] <pcw_home> micro sd will crawl and wear out fast
[17:10:56] <cradek> maybe you could do the whole git clone and build in ramdisk
[17:13:40] <seb_kuzminsky> ramdisk might work
[17:14:03] <seb_kuzminsky> the wheezy-rtpreempt-amd64 buildslave does its rip build & test in a 2 GB ramdisk, and that works fine
[17:14:11] <seb_kuzminsky> 1 GB was too small
[17:14:14] <cradek> you might be able to come up with a split of 2GB into ram and disk that lets you build
[17:14:19] <cradek> hmm
[17:14:27] <cradek> then maybe not
[17:14:47] <seb_kuzminsky> swap over 100 Mbps ethernet! wooo!
[17:15:20] <seb_kuzminsky> swap to hdd via usb-to-sata adapter maybe
[17:16:17] <cradek> at my office we used to do software development on diskless machines that did all filesystem and swap over 10Mbit.
[17:16:30] <seb_kuzminsky> i just threw up in my mouth a little
[17:16:40] <cradek> it was another age
[17:17:24] <cradek> I suppose they had low tens of megabytes of ram, don't remember for sure
[17:18:05] <seb_kuzminsky> i ran X on a 386 with 4 MB RAM back in 92 or 93
[17:18:13] <seb_kuzminsky> it had a local disk though
[17:18:35] <cradek> yeah my first linux machine was just like that too
[17:18:44] <seb_kuzminsky> now i'm all, 'waah, this machine only has 2 gigs of ram, how am i expected to get anything done on it?!'
[17:18:48] <cradek> eventually I had a 386-40 with a math coprocessor
[17:19:07] <seb_kuzminsky> i had the 40 mhz one with the built-in 387! that thing was awesome :-)
[17:19:35] <seb_kuzminsky> my motherboard had 8(!) simm slots, and when i populated the other 4 with 256 KB sticks (bringing it up to 5 MB ram) X really started flying
[17:19:52] * seb_kuzminsky sniffs and wipes back a tear
[17:20:02] <cradek> it's weird that people are so excited about moving to underpowered hardware now (I guess because it's small?)
[17:20:36] <seb_kuzminsky> you can get small x86 systems too, i think it's something else
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[17:22:46] <seb_kuzminsky> maybe the folks coming up from the embedded microcontroller world see the tiny arm systems as big embedded systems, rather than as shrunken PCs, and so it feels like a more natural evolution for them?
[17:23:20] <cradek> that sure could be
[17:25:07] <seb_kuzminsky> ARM seems to be here to stay, because: telephones
[17:26:23] <pcw_home> It looks like the fastest ARMs (other then exotic server chips) will be cell phone/tablet chips
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[17:31:22] <seb_kuzminsky> Those hardkernel folks i linked above also sell a bigger system with the Cortex-A15, which has hardware virtualization support
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[17:32:00] <seb_kuzminsky> http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G137510300620
[17:32:24] <pcw_home> Those may have a more stable "platform" aspect than cell phone chips
[17:33:01] <pcw_home> Oops that is a cell phone chip....
[17:34:27] <pcw_home> by server chips I guess I am thinking A57
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[17:35:36] <seb_kuzminsky> that's the 64 bit one?
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[17:36:41] <pcw_home> Yes:
[17:36:43] <pcw_home> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7724/it-begins-amd-announces-its-first-arm-based-server-soc-64bit8core-opteron-a1100
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[18:10:45] <seb_kuzminsky> pcw_home: i saw that announcement - that looks just right for a buildserver
[18:12:54] <pcw_home> I wonder when you can actually get MBs
[18:13:17] <pcw_home> (cant be too cheap with dual 10GBE)
[18:16:42] <seb_kuzminsky> samples in march 2014, shipping maybe in q4?
[18:16:49] <seb_kuzminsky> i can't wait that long :-/
[18:17:02] <seb_kuzminsky> i guess i'll buy that Odroid U3
[18:22:55] <pcw_home> can you do parallel makes across multiple Ethernet connected CPUs?
[18:24:25] <cradek> with distcc you can to some extent
[18:26:01] <brianmorel99> Are there any other kernels besides 3.4 RTAI being served on the linuxcnc repository?
[18:26:18] <cradek> the old lucid one is
[18:27:04] <cradek> s/old/venerable/g
[18:27:50] <brianmorel99> I'm testing a UB3 branch i built on Wheezy and thought I might throw some at it besides what I've built.
[18:28:53] <cradek> I wouldn't bet on 2.6.x being new enough to boot/run wheezy, but who knows, maybe it is
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[18:40:07] <seb_kuzminsky> zultron: i think there's something wrong with ubc3 on arm, the threads.1 test always fails for me (it passes on amd64)
[18:40:26] <seb_kuzminsky> the thread time reported is always 0 on arm, but a sensible number on amd64
[18:40:31] <seb_kuzminsky> this is with posix threads
[18:40:58] <seb_kuzminsky> for example:
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/wheezy-armhf-sim/builds/4/steps/runtests/logs/stdio
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[18:47:32] <seb_kuzminsky> it's not just threads.1, any 'halcmd show thread' reports 0 times, even though the threads are obviously running
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[18:49:38] <skunkworks_> it always suprises me how pretty things render in axis..
http://imagebin.org/296169
[18:50:08] <seb_kuzminsky> wow!
[18:50:25] <seb_kuzminsky> using linuxcnc to mint cash, i see
[18:51:22] <skunkworks_> how else do I make money!
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[19:03:18] <mhaberler> seb: your problem is likely a missing make setuid:
https://github.com/mhaberler/linuxcnc/commit/30301356cab8bb17122de6a59bcc65a28b5981a5
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[20:56:20] <seb_kuzminsky> mhaberler: i dont think so... 'sudo make setuid' runs without complaining, and all the other tests pass
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[20:59:24] <seb_kuzminsky> i think the probem is rtapi_time.c line 49
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[21:03:07] <seb_kuzminsky> did no one run the tests on the machinekit beaglebone black image?
[21:03:30] <mhaberler> of course we did
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[21:03:42] <seb_kuzminsky> does threads.1 pass on arm for you?
[21:04:03] <mhaberler> I can try if you want
[21:04:10] <mhaberler> the glo ubc3 branch?
[21:04:14] <seb_kuzminsky> yep
[21:04:19] <mhaberler> ok
[21:05:56] <seb_kuzminsky> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dai0274b/index.html
[21:05:59] <seb_kuzminsky> section 4.6
[21:08:43] <mhaberler> so it aint threads.0, its threads.1, correct
[21:11:09] <seb_kuzminsky> correct
[21:11:30] <seb_kuzminsky> all tests pass for me, except threads.1
[21:12:16] <mhaberler> ok
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[21:12:36] <mhaberler> will take a while, as you already noticed ;)
[21:13:03] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah that's a slow platform... this is no rush, thanks for looking at it
[21:13:24] <seb_kuzminsky> rtapi_get_clocks() is explicitly only implemented for x86 in the file i pointed to above
[21:13:33] <mhaberler> yeah, that could be
[21:13:45] <mhaberler> another thing I'd want to talk about:
[21:13:57] <seb_kuzminsky> maybe that #warning should be a #error
[21:14:13] <mhaberler> yes, I will change that, it should
[21:15:19] <mhaberler> happy to keep glo/ubc3 and github/ubc3 in sync, but I would ask you to reconsider 0dc9a7d9 and 673b7ae
[21:15:21] <mhaberler> this is why:
[21:16:00] <seb_kuzminsky> this might be an ARMv6+ alternative for rdtsc:
http://google-perftools.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/src/base/cycleclock.h
[21:16:51] <mhaberler> I know its not easy to pick dirs for .so's, but the reason why I want to avoid rt .so's and userland .so's in diffferent dirs is: they are completely disjoint library namespaces, and it was hard to disentangle them; Jeff knows
[21:17:09] <mhaberler> putting them in the same dir sends the wrong message
[21:17:50] <mhaberler> what about /usr/lib/linuxcnc and and /etc/ld.so.conf.d entry?
[21:18:33] <mhaberler> it would also help wiping lcnc .so's completely from an install: wipe /usr/lib/linuxcnc and there is no chance you mess up a rip with .so mixups
[21:20:15] <mhaberler> 0dc9a7d9: I think that should be handled through a /etc/ld.so.conf.d/linuxcnc.conf entry
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[21:22:24] <mhaberler> re threads.1 - could well be I overlooked that because threads.0 was broken on non-setuid posix for a long time, so quite likely you are right
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[21:27:34] <mhaberler> re dlopen paths: the distinction I made was: everything userland goes through whatever LD_LIBRARY_PATH etc contains; everything RT in rtapi_app goes through a computed path because that one is not subject to standard library resolution; in fact you could have an RT module executing say foo() which is in library a, and rtapi_app proper executing foo() which is somewhere else
[21:27:55] <mhaberler> this was a real bich to completely pull apart for good
[21:29:17] <mhaberler> sorry, text above should read 'I want to avoid rt .so's and userland .so's in the same dir'
[21:41:20] <seb_kuzminsky> i'll revisit those commits
[21:41:27] <mhaberler> thanks - I appreciate it
[21:41:57] <seb_kuzminsky> we should stay withing the fhs as far as possible
[21:42:14] <mhaberler> fhs stands for=
[21:42:17] <mhaberler> ?
[21:42:31] <seb_kuzminsky> filesystem hierarchy standard
[21:42:40] <seb_kuzminsky> http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
[21:42:52] <seb_kuzminsky> it's where files are supposed to be installed on a linux system
[21:43:43] <seb_kuzminsky> currently the .sos go in /usr/lib/linuxcnc/$FLAVOR/
[21:44:30] <mhaberler> you mean the rt .so's?
[21:44:36] <seb_kuzminsky> and .kos go in /lib/modules/$UNAME/linuxcnc/
[21:44:48] <seb_kuzminsky> all .sos go there
[21:44:55] <seb_kuzminsky> all .kos go in /lib/modules
[21:45:10] <seb_kuzminsky> that's for the packaged stuff
[21:45:20] <seb_kuzminsky> things might be different for rip
[21:45:30] <seb_kuzminsky> see debian/linuxcnc-$FLAVOR.files
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[21:45:58] <mhaberler> you mean 'currently' as per glo/ubc3?
[21:46:16] <seb_kuzminsky> yes
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[21:46:45] <mhaberler> was that the case beforehand as well?
[21:47:10] <seb_kuzminsky> before i fixed deb packaging in ubc3, things did not get installed at all
[21:47:39] <seb_kuzminsky> maybe i misunderstood your question
[21:48:01] <mhaberler> no, I'm referring to say 2.5 or master - I didnt look, but do these use /usr/lib/linuxcnc already?
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[21:48:38] <seb_kuzminsky> oh, i see
[21:48:43] <seb_kuzminsky> uhm, i'm not sure
[21:49:18] <seb_kuzminsky> /usr/lib/linuxcnc/modules/*.so
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[21:49:35] <seb_kuzminsky> that's for 2.5, and i bet master too
[21:50:09] <cradek> my master buildbot rtai deb install doesn't have /usr/lib/linuxcnc
[21:50:21] <cradek> err are you talking about sim?
[21:50:29] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, .sos for sim
[21:50:41] <seb_kuzminsky> your rtai deb has .kos, they're probably in /usr/realtime-$UNAME?
[21:50:47] <seb_kuzminsky> (which is totally bogus btw)
[21:51:16] <cradek> /usr/realtime-3.4.55-rtai-2/modules/linuxcnc/motmod.ko
[21:51:24] * seb_kuzminsky blushes
[21:51:26] <mhaberler> Seb and I are talking about installation locations for linuxcnc specific userland .so's which is libraries proper and ulap* as well
[21:52:15] <mhaberler> well whatever the past, I think that would be the place to use in the future; it is within the fhs:
[21:53:39] <seb_kuzminsky> are you suggesting /usr/lib/linuxcnc/*.so for actual shared libraries, and /usr/lib/linuxcnc/$FLAVOR/*.so for userspace-thread hal components (since they're more like plugins than like shared libraries)?
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[21:57:54] <zultron> ld.so-loaded libs should just be in /usr/lib.
[21:58:09] <zultron> or $(libdir), actually.
[21:58:10] <mhaberler> yes, I think that would make sense
[21:58:30] <mhaberler> fhs sez:
[21:58:32] <mhaberler> Purpose
[21:58:34] <mhaberler> Applications may use a single subdirectory under /usr/lib. If an application uses a subdirectory, all architecture-dependent data exclusively used by the application must be placed within that subdirectory. [23]
[21:58:56] <mhaberler> I vote for the subdir under /usr/lib - it makes removing an install easy
[21:58:56] <zultron> The plugins opened with dlopen() should be in /usr/lib/linuxcnc.
[21:58:57] <seb_kuzminsky> right, i remember talking with zultron about that back when we were working on those two commits
[21:59:35] <seb_kuzminsky> my understanding of the fhs is that what we do now matches that
[21:59:54] <zultron> whether or not ULAPI and RTAPI plugins should be further separated under that directory, I don't have an opinion right now.
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[22:00:20] <zultron> Yes, this matches fhs, and Fedora and Debian guidelines.
[22:00:35] <seb_kuzminsky> we put all "internal" libraries and .sos in /usr/lib/linuxcnc/ (sometimes in deeper subdirs), and all "public" shared libs go in /usr/lib
[22:01:14] <zultron> There is the question about $(prefix)/lib vs. $(libdir), though.
[22:01:26] <mhaberler> why? this still messes up /usr/lib
[22:01:55] <zultron> ld.so libs belong in $(libdir) (which isn't always /usr/lib).
[22:02:33] <mhaberler> I would be fine with say liblinuxcnchal.so etc reside in /usr/lib/linuxcnc - it gets us around this /usr/lib tainting issue which is just a support problem generator
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[22:03:03] <mhaberler> so $(libdir) is /usr/lib/linuxcnc ?
[22:03:05] <seb_kuzminsky> putting public libs in /usr/lib doesnt seem tainty to me
[22:03:15] <seb_kuzminsky> it seems like the normal thing to do
[22:03:42] <zultron> No, $(libdir) is /usr/lib on Debian.
[22:03:44] <mhaberler> not once you put them there, but once you get mixed setups or want to uninstall manually it becomes hard
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[22:04:49] <zultron> We don't want to uninstall manually, do we?
[22:04:55] <seb_kuzminsky> i sure don't!
[22:04:55] <cradek> y'all are talking about what goes in a .deb, right?
[22:05:07] <seb_kuzminsky> i think that's what we're talking about
[22:05:14] <mhaberler> you: sure; Joe Chipcutter: unknown
[22:05:55] <zultron> Anyone building and installing by hand shouldn't be using prefix=/usr.
[22:06:13] <zultron> If they do, they should accept the consequences.
[22:06:35] <mhaberler> well but that wasnt the question, was it?
[22:06:55] <cradek> maybe you could spell out what you think the question is
[22:07:14] <mhaberler> I think we're on the same page still
[22:07:20] <zultron> The question I was answering was, should dl.so-opened shared libs be installed in $(libdir) or $(libdir)/linuxcnc?
[22:07:39] <zultron> (by default)
[22:07:53] <cradek> by the deb?
[22:08:06] <cradek> or by make install (which is used to build the deb)
[22:08:18] <zultron> By make install
[22:08:30] <mhaberler> zultron: liblinuxcnchal.so is also opened by dlopen() eventually - do you mean that example as well?
[22:08:43] <zultron> It is?
[22:08:48] <mhaberler> or just explicit dlopen() calls in linuxcnc code?
[22:08:51] <mhaberler> sure it is
[22:09:08] <zultron> I thought it was opened by dl.so.
[22:09:11] <mhaberler> but not by code under linuxcnc/src
[22:09:14] <zultron> blagh ld.so.
[22:09:20] <mhaberler> well right, but via dlopen()
[22:09:24] <zultron> Right.
[22:09:35] <mhaberler> oh I see. My fault, sorry
[22:09:39] <zultron> I guess that was ambiguous.
[22:10:32] <mhaberler> no you are right, that was the right question
[22:10:33] <zultron> The correct distinction might be opened by ld.so or not.
[22:10:46] <mhaberler> yes it is
[22:11:25] <zultron> Those opened by ld.so are considered system shared libs, and normally go directly into $(libdir).
[22:11:38] <mhaberler> if we have the option as per rules - and I think we have - I suggest $(libdir)/linuxcnc - standard compartmentalisation
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[22:12:22] <mhaberler> so you distinguish 'loaded by dl.so' and 'loaded by ld.so'
[22:12:40] <seb_kuzminsky> i think we have three kinds of .sos: "public shared libraries" (linked to by normal applications, like liblinuxcnchal.so), "internal shared libraries" (used behind the scenes, like ulapi-$FLAVOR.so, these are new in ubc), and "userspace components" (like stepgen.so, used by userspace threads)
[22:12:40] <zultron> Sorry, everywhere I wrote 'dl.so', change to 'ld.so'.
[22:13:04] <mhaberler> yes, that is the zoo at hand
[22:13:22] <seb_kuzminsky> public libs should be findable by ld.so, the other two should not be (or at least dont need to be)
[22:13:27] <mhaberler> (dl.so was new! locate dl.so ..)
[22:13:30] <zultron> The last two are conceptually the same.
[22:13:55] <seb_kuzminsky> zultron: yeah, i can see how that makes sense
[22:14:40] <zultron> At least in the sense that one doesn't run 'ldconfig -a' after their installation, and they're opened from within the program by an explicit dlopen().
[22:14:52] <seb_kuzminsky> we currently (glo/ubc) put "public .sos" in /usr/lib, and everything else in /usr/lib/linuxcnc/
[22:15:04] <zultron> Right.
[22:15:08] <seb_kuzminsky> i *think* michael is suggesting moving everything to /usr/lib/linuxcnc
[22:15:22] <seb_kuzminsky> mhaberler, is that what you're suggesting?
[22:15:29] <mhaberler> yes, but it may not be possible
[22:15:31] <zultron> I think he might be. I don't see that that's standard anywhere, though.
[22:15:37] <mhaberler> I wish it could,
[22:15:59] <zultron> It's possible. You'd also have to install a /etc/ld.so.conf.d/linuxcnc.conf file with the location to search.
[22:16:22] <seb_kuzminsky> i think it's possible, but i dont think it buys us anything
[22:16:24] <mhaberler> well it isnt key; it just eases this manual uninstall thing but that isnt a showstopper for me
[22:16:51] <mhaberler> ok, let me summarize then:
[22:17:12] <zultron> Very few programs do that. I'm not sure why they do.
[22:17:29] <mhaberler> $(libdir) (standard /usr/lib) = iblinuxcnchal.so and friends
[22:17:48] <cradek> the only ones on my normalish system that have messed with ld.so.conf.d are related to the terrible nvidia driver stuff
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[22:18:20] <zultron> mhaberler, yes.
[22:18:23] <mhaberler> $(libdir)/linuxcnc/$FLAVOR/ - rt .so's
[22:18:30] <mhaberler> (userland rt that is)
[22:18:33] <zultron> yes.
[22:18:54] <mhaberler> ulapi-$FLAVOR: where ;-?
[22:19:09] <zultron> I thought that was the original debate, and I don't know the answer.
[22:19:14] <seb_kuzminsky> it's currently in $(libdir)/linuxcnc, and they're disambiguated by filename (which includes FLAVOR)
[22:19:22] <zultron> Yes, that was originally my doing.
[22:19:24] <seb_kuzminsky> so i think what we have now is fine
[22:19:42] <mhaberler> I see that rt/non-rt mixing argument doesnt hold water unless you fudge a userland.so under $FLAVOR where the rt.sos are
[22:19:45] <zultron> Or maybe if I failed to do it, it was my intent, anyway.
[22:20:59] <seb_kuzminsky> ok, so we're all good on that topic? everyone happy?
[22:21:01] <zultron> Which argument? Is it for or against mixing?
[22:21:17] <mhaberler> let me turn it the other way: a clear error would be to place a .so which is opened by ld.so, or dlopen() in userland code, under $(libdir)/linuxcnc/$FLAVOR
[22:21:28] <zultron> Yes, that's an error.
[22:21:36] <zultron> No.
[22:21:37] <zultron> Wait.
[22:21:42] <mhaberler> let me have a look at Seb's patch
[22:22:27] <seb_kuzminsky> all the .sos in /usr/lib/linuxcnc/$FLAVOR/*.so are dlopened() by userspace
[22:22:43] <zultron> .so libs are opened either by ld.so (before the program even begins execution), or else by an explicit call from within the program by dlopen().
[22:22:51] <seb_kuzminsky> right
[22:23:09] <zultron> Those opened by ld.so belong in $(libdir), which is /usr/lib by default on Debian.
[22:24:03] * seb_kuzminsky is nodding
[22:24:05] <zultron> Those opened by dlopen() belong in either $(libdir)/linuxcnc or $(prefix)/lib/linuxcnc, I'm non sure which, but on Debian, that will end up being the same by default.
[22:24:20] <seb_kuzminsky> yep, that's my understanding as well
[22:24:25] <mhaberler> Seb - 0dc9a7d makes sense afterall, sorry
[22:24:46] <seb_kuzminsky> ok good! :-)
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[22:25:07] <mhaberler> lets have a look at the other one:
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blobdiff;f=src/rtapi/Submakefile;h=bad2775903e5005ec7a808b4f5bfd09a36bfd81e;hp=211a70c1fc2c282364680cdcdd5d8b2e3efc39d1;hb=673b7aef03d4cdeab0638d3de2bdc0c350a0a657;hpb=0dc9a7d9ff074250cfcef6f4921e5b95dfbc3d2e
[22:25:59] <seb_kuzminsky> right, that one...
[22:26:06] <zultron> Ah, that one looks like the opposite of what we were just saying.
[22:26:19] <seb_kuzminsky> i think it's not
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[22:26:42] <zultron> RIP rtlib is $(libdir)/linuxcnc in system installs.
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[22:26:57] <seb_kuzminsky> "rtlib" here means stuff that's dlopened
[22:27:04] <seb_kuzminsky> zultron: right
[22:27:08] <zultron> liblinuxcncshm.so is a system shared lib, no?
[22:27:27] <seb_kuzminsky> err...
[22:27:34] <mhaberler> it is a 'ld.so loadable lib'
[22:27:49] <zultron> Right, which means it should go into $(libdir).
[22:27:59] <zultron> For RIP installs, in ../lib.
[22:28:31] <seb_kuzminsky> and it does
[22:28:32] <mhaberler> as should ulapi-$FLAVOR.so
[22:28:50] <seb_kuzminsky> no, ulapi-*.so is dlopened "by hand"
[22:29:04] <zultron> Oh, oops, I'm misreading the file
[22:29:15] <mhaberler> relative to the path ld.so gives you
[22:29:21] <zultron> ulapi-*.so is dlopen()ed.
[22:29:22] <zultron> Sorry.
[22:29:48] <seb_kuzminsky> my mkdir for $(ULAPISO): is wrong, but the file ends up in the right place
[22:29:49] <zultron> So that belongs in ../rtdir, or $(libdir)/linuxcnc
[22:29:57] <mhaberler> ah.
[22:30:52] <seb_kuzminsky> oh wait, no, my patch is right
[22:30:56] <zultron> Yes it is.
[22:31:05] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[22:31:26] <seb_kuzminsky> "i've only been wrong once, and that time was when i thought i was wrong about something but i was actually right"
[22:31:26] <zultron> I probably made the original mistake.
[22:31:50] <zultron> Who's that? Twain? Yogi Berra?
[22:32:22] <seb_kuzminsky> heh, i dont know
[22:32:33] <seb_kuzminsky> anyway
[22:33:06] <seb_kuzminsky> who wants to talk about rtapi_get_clocks() on arm? :-)
[22:33:32] <mhaberler> I'm just checking if that google replacement is plausible
[22:34:17] <mhaberler> I am still confused on the second patch. Why is ../rtlib a warm place for a userland non-rt .so?
[22:34:42] <seb_kuzminsky> rtlib is a bad name for that variable in ubc (it was less wrong in master & before)
[22:34:58] <seb_kuzminsky> it used to mean "things that act like realtime components"
[22:35:11] <seb_kuzminsky> but now it also means "things that help deal with the flavor switch in rtapi"
[22:35:23] <seb_kuzminsky> maybe that's the source of the confusion here?
[22:36:07] <mhaberler> could be
[22:36:36] <mhaberler> (did we really make up rtlib? it's so long...)
[22:36:56] <seb_kuzminsky> a better name for that variable might be "internal_lib" or something? it's stuff we dlopen(), as opposed to stuff that apps have loaded for them by ld.so
[22:37:14] <seb_kuzminsky> ok, back to $DAYJOB for me
[22:37:14] <cradek> you guys were calling them plugins earlier
[22:37:15] <zultron> We didn't make up rtlib. It used to be for kernel modules.
[22:37:40] <zultron> the pth simulator probably mixed up that distinction first.
[22:38:03] <seb_kuzminsky> it's kernel modules on kernel-thread builds, and userspace "plugins" on userspace thread builds in ubc
[22:38:23] <seb_kuzminsky> later folks!
[22:38:27] <mhaberler> cu
[22:38:41] <mhaberler> ok - so we leave glo/ubc3 as is - right?
[22:38:58] <zultron> Yeah, that was following the pth 'sim' example. I should've fixed it when redoing everything else. :P
[22:39:09] <zultron> Yes, as far as that question.
[22:39:23] <mhaberler> ah. Anyway, that is good to have ticked. next..
[22:40:13] <zultron> The best thing to do would be install under ../lib/linuxcnc, as though $(prefix) were ../.
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[22:41:24] <mhaberler> right, that would make the most sense
[22:41:37] <zultron> Then we're one step closer to removing the strange RIP build, and replacing it with $(prefix)=$(pwd)/..
[22:42:15] <mhaberler> right, there is no good reason for different pathnames
[22:42:28] <mhaberler> path segments
[22:43:38] <zultron> Except the fun extra challenge we get when developing on our desktops with RIP builds, and then getting to redo a bunch of stuff when we find system installs broke.
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[23:32:05] <skunkworks> there are situations where the current TP goes over by quite a bit. over 39in/s^2 when set to 30..
[23:34:32] <skunkworks> I think mostly non-colinear line-arc transitions
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[23:41:48] <cradek> during the blend, or during a whole move (arc?)
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[23:42:13] <cradek> I'm shocked you're still finding problems after we tested with various tort.ngc runs
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