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[01:25:57] <alex_joni> a long time ago there was a halui halvcp config
[01:26:27] <alex_joni> halui_pyvcp now
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[05:05:10] <mhaberler> jepler: can I bug you with a question re sim_rtapi_app?
[05:06:15] <mhaberler> I dont see a purpose for the dlopen(NULL, RTLD_GLOBAL) here:
http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc2-dev.git;a=blob;f=src/rtapi/sim_rtapi_app.cc;h=ed1cb7dd23b49bb5f8752fbd01d956fba32b86e7;hb=31ebc417c2fe9d34feb8763fcfe908904385372b#l334
[05:07:27] <mhaberler> what it does afaict is to inject the rtapi_app namespace into the component namespace, and in effect aliasing any symbols in RT space which happen to match a symbol in rtapi_app
[05:07:56] <mhaberler> (this came up with the unified binary work)
[05:11:09] <mhaberler> I commented this out and it runtests is still fine; to the contrary I would think exporting symbols from rtapi_app _into_ component space is a bad idea
[05:16:43] <mhaberler> manpage says: RTLD_GLOBAL
[05:16:44] <mhaberler> The symbols defined by this library will be made available for symbol resolution of subsequently loaded libraries.
[05:17:36] <mhaberler> I dont see a use for that; what it means is that one has to be super-careful in rtapi_app not to define any symbols which might ever be used in an RT component
[05:17:55] <mhaberler> (and that has bitten me big time ;)
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[05:29:43] <mhaberler> the second thing is the -rdynamic flag on linking rtapi_app: This instructs the linker to add all symbols, not only used ones, to the dynamic symbol table. This option is needed for some uses of dlopen or to allow obtaining backtraces from within a program.
[05:29:53] <mhaberler> it seems so far this can be safely removed
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[08:13:32] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03tissf 05v2.5_branch 35ecb8c 06linuxcnc 10docs/src/config/ini_config_fr.txt * French doc. update to follow John: add simple example filter program
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[12:33:35] <jepler> mhaberler: in the kernel, it is possible for modules to export symbols which are used by other modules. For example, this functionality is used by kinematics modules to export their kinematics function
[12:33:58] <jepler> I am surprised if this continues to work after removing RTLD_GLOBAL but if you say it does then I believe you .. but would like to understand why
[12:36:32] <alex_joni> morning jepler
[12:36:37] <jepler> hi alex_joni
[12:37:42] <jepler> mhaberler: in fact, running recent master branch with this change
[12:37:42] <jepler> - void *module = modules[name] = dlopen(what, RTLD_GLOBAL | RTLD_LAZY);
[12:37:46] <jepler> + void *module = modules[name] = dlopen(what, RTLD_LAZY);
[12:37:51] <jepler> makes loading most (all?) components fail
[12:38:01] <jepler> $ halrun
[12:38:01] <jepler> halcmd: loadrt threads
[12:38:01] <jepler> /usr/src/linuxcnc/bin/rtapi_app: symbol lookup error: /usr/src/linuxcnc/rtlib/threads.so: undefined symbol: hal_init
[12:38:05] <jepler> <stdin>:1: /usr/src/linuxcnc/bin/rtapi_app exited without becoming ready
[12:38:58] <jepler> and putting that back but removing -rdynamic gives a different failure:
[12:39:04] <jepler> $ halrun
[12:39:04] <jepler> halcmd: loadrt threads
[12:39:04] <jepler> /usr/src/linuxcnc/bin/rtapi_app: symbol lookup error: /usr/src/linuxcnc/rtlib/hal_lib.so: undefined symbol: rtapi_print_msg
[12:39:07] <jepler> <stdin>:1: /usr/src/linuxcnc/bin/rtapi_app exited without becoming ready
[12:39:19] <jepler> so .. I guess that's why those are there.
[12:39:21] <jepler> bbl
[12:57:22] <andypugh> alex_joni: Do you know wht halui puts a non-trivial kins machine into joint mode when you run an mdi_command?
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[12:58:24] <andypugh> (It seems to happen on return from a routine, and in fact the machine appears to be in World mode during aany mdi_command run, reverting on return.
[12:59:33] <andypugh> I think it is a "ghost" switch, as just flicking between MDI and Manual tabs puts it back. (and I don't think that is intended to affect joint/world mode)
[13:00:15] <alex_joni> andypugh: nope
[13:00:48] <andypugh> It happens even when halui is the only user-interface loaded. (and that is a tedious way to work)
[13:01:01] <alex_joni> try running halui/pyvcp
[13:01:05] <alex_joni> but without axis
[13:01:47] <andypugh> I tested with just halui and calling the mdi_command via setp (no PyVCP either).
[13:01:51] <alex_joni> can you show me a debug log?
[13:02:03] <alex_joni> a NML debug I mean
[13:02:28] <andypugh> I don't really know how.
[13:02:35] <alex_joni> set debug to 0xffff
[13:02:40] <alex_joni> then run from a terminal
[13:02:52] <andypugh> OK.
[13:03:02] <alex_joni> DEBUG = 0x7FFFFFFF
[13:05:11] <andypugh> Hmm, how do I exit a halui-only config?
[13:05:20] <alex_joni> killall halui?
[13:08:07] <alex_joni> jepler:
http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/04/canon-eos-7d-l-announced-shipping-in-may/
[13:08:23] <jepler> alex_joni: yeah, I saw that. I'm a lefty btw
[13:08:34] <alex_joni> heh, nice
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[13:15:59] <andypugh> http://pastebin.com/ym4V6aSe
[13:16:34] <andypugh> Line 44 is where I setp halui.mdi-command-00
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[13:19:11] <andypugh> The line numbers in the mdi_commands look rather suspicious.
[13:20:25] * alex_joni looks
[13:21:28] <alex_joni> you gotta find out who does the set_mode on line 58
[13:21:32] <alex_joni> if I'm reading this right
[13:22:29] <alex_joni> hmm.. nope
[13:22:39] <alex_joni> SET_MODE is for going back to manual
[13:22:56] <alex_joni> andypugh: are you running sim?
[13:23:02] <alex_joni> or RT?
[13:23:20] <alex_joni> it's necessary to grab outputs from the motion controller too
[13:23:28] <alex_joni> echo 5 > /proc/rtapi/debug
[13:23:30] <alex_joni> for RT
[13:23:42] <andypugh> It's a sim config, running on a realtime kernel, in a VM.
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[13:24:21] <andypugh> OK...
[13:24:56] <andypugh> This isn't actually a problem that affects me, you know.
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[13:30:24] <alex_joni> andypugh: I saw
[13:30:29] <alex_joni> on the mailing list
[13:30:57] <alex_joni> but form that log I don't see anything weird from halui
[13:32:16] <andypugh> http://pastebin.com/mgGMKcRa
[13:32:28] <andypugh> Also nothing wierd
[13:33:16] <alex_joni> yup
[13:34:15] <andypugh> But the halui.mode.is-joint pin went true during the mdi-command, and false when I issued a halcmd.mode.telop 1
[13:37:46] <andypugh> Anyway, back to the workshop for me.
[13:38:29] <skunkworks_> andypugh, day off?
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[13:56:10] <riz> Hello. I was browsing the code while trying to follow it with the "Architecture Overview" diagram from the lunuxcnc code notes. I saw that there was a FIFO buffer in the diagram, but could not follow how or where this was implemented in the code. Does anyoe know where this (FIFO?) buffer is created and used in the code?
[13:56:52] <skunkworks_> halstreamer? or maybe halscope?
[13:57:04] * skunkworks_ isn't a programmer...
[13:58:11] <cradek> FIFO between what and what?
[13:58:31] <riz> FIFO between EMCMOT and EMCTASK
[13:58:39] <riz> There is a shared memory between them
[13:59:58] <riz> But, because everything is running sequentially, and task gives multiple commands each cycle there has to be a buffer in between to hold multiple commands so that motion can execute them one at a time
[14:00:06] <riz> This is so that the commands dont overwrite eachother
[14:01:11] <riz> In the code notes diagram that gives an overview od the architecture, you will see the word "FIFOS?" in between the two modules
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[14:09:42] <cradek> sorry, I don't know
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[14:16:53] <riz> oh ok
[14:17:37] <riz> Do you hppen to know what the point of serial_number is?
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[14:31:52] <micges> riz: there is FIFO in task and it there is mutex on shared memory between task and motion
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[14:32:40] <riz> Where is the FIFO in task?
[14:32:42] <micges> to avoid overwriting commands on shared memory
[14:33:22] <riz> Is it using a linked list?
[14:33:56] <riz> I can't really identify where it is being done or what size the FIFO is
[14:34:08] <micges> it is named interp_list
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[14:37:33] <micges> #define MAX_NML_COMMAND_SIZE 1000
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[14:42:25] <riz> I thought that was only when using the interpreter in auto mode??
[14:42:50] <riz> Is that for all commands such as enabling motion, axis, jogs etc..?
[14:47:30] <micges> yes it is
[14:48:07] <micges> above commands goes after sanity checking goes into shared mem
[14:48:54] <riz> what do you mean by sanity checking?
[14:48:59] <riz> checking pre-conditions?
[14:49:21] <micges> yes
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[14:56:56] <mhaberler> and next time you run into kernel problems, dont forget to include that 'screenshot' in the ticket, for example:
http://www.bfst.de/funpix/screenshot.jpeg
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[16:02:11] <andypugh> skunkworks_: Yes, day off. In the UK Good Friday and Easter Monday are public holidays. So I have had a 4-day weekend.
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[16:06:45] <skunkworks_> Nice!
[16:07:04] <skunkworks_> played anymore with your hobbing setup?
[16:07:45] <andypugh> No, the part is made, so I have been back on the lathe.
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[16:12:00] <andypugh> skunkworks_: Ballnut carrier:
https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5861911571601814130
[16:12:50] <andypugh> It's a bit scalloped because I can't feed at 0.2mm/rev on something doing 2rpm by hand.
[16:15:11] <skunkworks_> andypugh, very cool!
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[16:27:05] <skunkworks_> andypugh, is this what you originally made the brushless motor for?
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[16:27:50] <andypugh> No, that's something different, langushing in the cubpoard of neglected projects.
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[16:28:58] <skunkworks_> I have the same cupboard..
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[16:29:53] <pcw_home> Darwinian project management
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[17:04:44] <kwallace1> jepler: Have you played with an EF USM ring motor? Mine doesn't turn so I'll need to troubleshoot it.
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[17:55:06] <jepler> kwallace1: no. I've disassembled zero lenses in my day, and my friend who does mostly works on fully manual lenses.
[17:57:00] <kwallace1> I have a couple junk lenses coming from eBay to practice on. I also want to decode the SPI link.
[17:57:50] <jepler> that is something i've always been interested in figuring out
[17:58:04] <jepler> there is some information here and there that I have found, mostly in russian iirc
[17:58:31] <jepler> here's one link I have:
http://www.pymcu.com/spiLens.html
[17:59:54] <jepler> and I think there was some info in this thread:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dslr-forum.de%2Fshowthread.php%3Fs%3Df942d92745a305446c51d92589f95be8%26t%3D649529%26page%3D2
[18:03:01] <kwallace1> Thank you, I had a hard time finding anything more than "I heard so and so got it working" and then dead or no links. This will be a big help.
[18:04:06] <kwallace1> jepler: Is the video worth having on an SLR?
[18:04:28] <jepler> kwallace1: not for me personally
[18:05:02] <jepler> I've only ever taken a handful of videos
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[18:09:55] <kwallace1> I want to record short videos for showing off CNC and such, but every camera I've tried has been pretty bad with video. My Logtech C910 is my best video cam so far but it is lensed for video chat and is way too wide.
[18:10:33] <cradek> any old phone takes passable video for youtube-type sharing...
[18:11:12] <kwallace1> Maybe I'm too picky.
[18:13:24] <jepler> the video quality on canon's SLRs is pretty good in terms of saturation. You can set it in M and manual focus modes so that you don't have trouble with focus wandering or exposure changing during a shot. And you of course can put an appropriate lens on it for whatever you have in mind to shoot (within reason)
[18:13:56] <jepler> on the other hand, most lenses (except the ones they market as STM, I think?) have pretty loud AF motors, so if you're capturing audio using the in-camera mic it's terrible if you also use AF
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[18:16:20] <jepler> kwallace1: if you do put together a page on the EF lens SPI protocol please drop me a pointer to it
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[18:20:02] <kwallace1> I'm planning to start a 300D page and put everything there. I'll post a link when (if) I can get to it.
[18:22:41] <kwallace1> The USM motor is supposed to be silent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_motor
[18:22:45] <kwallace1> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img1.topfreebiz.com/o2010-6/9/UltraSonic-Motor-for-Canon-EF-S-17-85-4-5-6-IS-USM-923278170.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.topfreebiz.com/product/944934/UltraSonic-Motor-for-Canon-EF-S-17-85-4-5.6-IS-USM.htm&h=750&w=1000&sz=80&tbnid=eEj66WCOYEGDbM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=126&zoom=1&usg=__PUZOguB2ozAL8g6Pcd6LmfHgOMA=&docid=MvqDZmQ5P1rr_M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CNBZUd7xMeOVjAKX-IGYAw&ved=0CFEQ9QEwBA&dur=4782
[18:24:57] <kwallace1> Just found this too:
http://www.chrysis.net/photo/canon/tech/technology.htm
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[18:30:37] <andypugh> I think that the iPhone breaks the laws of physics. It shouldn't be possible to take such good pictures with a lens that small.
[18:31:29] <andypugh> I am not saying that they are _great_ pictures, but they are much better I would have thought possible through such a tiny hole.
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[22:16:56] <skunkworks> andypugh: nice post on cnczone
[22:17:16] <andypugh> Do you live there or something?
[22:18:47] <skunkworks> ummmm....
[22:19:08] <skunkworks> it is my workshop away from my workshop
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[22:20:28] <skunkworks> andypugh: how are the bearings going to get assembled?
[22:22:38] <andypugh> The bearings go into the housing, and are retained by a screwed collar. then the pulley assembly is inserted, and then the locknut is tightened.
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[22:24:32] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/zaxis/zaxisdrive1.JPG
[22:24:43] <skunkworks> spinning ball nut is #8
[22:25:44] <skunkworks> what a mechainical nightmare...
[22:26:51] <skunkworks> btw - I hit the 'todays posts' button every so often to see if there is anyting interesting.. (That is how I catch a lot of things)
[22:27:13] <skunkworks> it is my ocd..
[22:29:31] <andypugh> skunkworks:
http://imagebin.org/252452
[22:30:18] <skunkworks> Wow. That is some tight engineering...
[22:31:00] <andypugh> I don't like to make things too easy for myself :-)
[22:31:07] <skunkworks> heh
[22:32:01] <andypugh> I would like to find a way to get oil into the nut too.
[22:32:52] <andypugh> But that looks uber-tricky
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[22:34:21] <skunkworks> Dripping onto the ball screw seems good enough for me.. :)
[22:35:18] <andypugh> It would have to be into the casting, between the two bearings, into the steel part of the pulley (which is now pressed into the aluminium bit, and so not ever coming out) then into an axial drilling in that 2.5mm thick sleeve, and then to a little pipe connected to the oil hole..
[22:35:27] <andypugh> Or, I could drip onto the screw :-)
[22:37:51] <skunkworks> are the bearings going to get enough lube? or are they greased and forget?
[22:38:27] <skunkworks> I would think any oil that gets on the ball screw nut might get flung into the bearings?
[22:38:32] <skunkworks> maybe
[22:38:37] <andypugh> They are greased and sealed. Though I have considered pulling out the middle seals, and hooking up to an oilr.
[22:44:13] <andypugh> I tried seeing if the youtube auto-captions does any better on this one. No. Not a simgle word is rightm as far as I can see.
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[22:57:41] <jepler> mhaberler: did you see my response earlier about -rdynamic and RTLD_GLOBAL being needed in recentish master branch?
[22:58:08] <mhaberler> hi! need to read back..
[22:58:24] <jepler> (much earlier)
[22:58:46] <mhaberler> have it
[22:58:51] <jepler> my answer is basically "it doesn't work without them, so I can't really advocate removing it"
[22:59:16] <jepler> but if it is different in your branch then removing it might be appropriate
[22:59:30] <mhaberler> well actually I was looking at 2.5 but I see what the issue is
[22:59:51] <jepler> there is not fine-grained control over what is exported, like there is for kernel modules
[23:00:03] <mhaberler> I spent way too much time on the issue .. but I think I understand what's the cause
[23:00:44] <jepler> in theory there could be via --dynamic-list, but we'd have to have a way to automatically prepare such a file based on the EXPORT_SYMBOL declarations
[23:01:27] <mhaberler> that plays into it, but I dont fully understand what EXPORT_SYMBOL does in a user context
[23:02:31] <jepler> all it does is place a string in the section .rtapi_export
[23:02:32] <jepler> #define EXPORT_SYMBOL(x) __attribute__((section(".rtapi_export"))) \
[23:02:32] <jepler> char rtapi_exported_##x[] = #x;
[23:02:40] <mhaberler> if I use EXPORT_SYMBOL in userland mode (and ignore warnings) it resolves fine without dlopen(NULL, RTLD_GLOBAL) and without -rdynamic
[23:02:57] <jepler> the hypothetical userspace linking script would pull that list of strings out and turn it into a --dynamic-list argument to ld, but .. nothing like that happens
[23:04:00] <jepler> time to prepare dinner here. sorry to start the conversation and then abruptly truncate it.
[23:04:05] <mhaberler> I need to merge this into master and see what happens
[23:04:08] <mhaberler> sure
[23:05:14] <mhaberler> re
http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc-devel/2013-04-01.html#12:37:42:
[23:06:31] <mhaberler> I'm pretty sure this happens because deleting RTLD_GLOBAL here (this is on module load,_not_ on sim_rtapi_app proper!) means the syms exported from an RT comp arent visible for other comps anymore, so that change is clearly wrong
[23:07:05] <mhaberler> NB: this was not the dlopen statement I was referring to!
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[23:08:45] <mhaberler> I was referring to this line, it is still in master:
http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc2-dev.git;a=blob;f=src/rtapi/sim_rtapi_app.cc;h=ed1cb7dd23b49bb5f8752fbd01d956fba32b86e7;hb=4d727170ead9d762139c441ef87f762db2379a23#l335
[23:09:07] <mhaberler> this one is fine and needed
http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc2-dev.git;a=blob;f=src/rtapi/sim_rtapi_app.cc;h=ed1cb7dd23b49bb5f8752fbd01d956fba32b86e7;hb=4d727170ead9d762139c441ef87f762db2379a23#l202
[23:10:02] <mhaberler> the previous one is which causes symbol leakage from sim_rtapi_app and makes things a hit-and-miss game depending how you name variables in sim_rtapi_app and what is actually loaded
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[23:12:04] <mhaberler> the first failure you refer to is because intermodule refs arent exported anymore if you delete RTLD_GLOBAL
[23:14:36] <mhaberler> you can kludge around it by adding -rdynamic as you suggest, but what that means is that the hal_lib module symref is actually resolved to the rtapi_print_msg linked to sim_rtapi_app and that is BAD - you completely loose control over intra-module symbol resolution by spilling over sim_rtapi_app symbols into module space
[23:14:54] <mhaberler> link a new library or object to sim_rtapi_app - boom (randomly - only if you hit the right syms)
[23:15:34] <mhaberler> furthermore, there is no reason whatsoever to link rtapi sources to sim_rtapi_app which isnt a solution but more of a problem
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[23:18:22] <mhaberler> so the proper solution to this mess is: a) delete the dlopen(NULL, RTLD_GLOBAL) in line sim_rtapi_app b) delete the -rdynamic flag from linking rtapi_app c) do not link rtapi sources to rtapi_app - rtapi funcs either come in cross-module or not at all; d) properly export syms in all components
[23:19:53] <mhaberler> this branch shows it:
http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc2-dev.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/dynload-rtapi
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[23:20:50] <mhaberler> if a module fails with a non-existent symref then this is due to it not being properly exported, but providing some uncontrollable default resolution through rtapi_app is a surefire way to create problems
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[23:21:14] <mhaberler> I spent almost a week on nailing this 'workaround', and it is clean now
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[23:21:52] <mhaberler> which was a precondition that the universal binary build works reproducibly, which it now does
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