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[09:47:48] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chrisinnanaimo 05master 9c88529 06emc2 10src/emc/usr_intf/gscreen/gscreen.py * gscreen -add functions to launch Onboard keyboard
[09:47:48] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chrisinnanaimo 05master 8fa7005 06emc2 10configs/ 10sim/gscreen/gscreen_axis.ini 10sim/gscreen/gscreen_axis_lathe.ini * gscreen -fix AXIS crash in multi GUI gscreen configs
[09:47:52] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chrisinnanaimo 05master 581109b 06emc2 10src/emc/usr_intf/gscreen/gscreen.py * gscreen -make it easier to reuse default widgets
[09:47:58] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chrisinnanaimo 05master cb53192 06emc2 10configs/sim/gscreen_custom/gaxis_handler.py * gscreen config -update handler file to use new function call
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[12:40:48] <awallin> I'm writing a hal component using comp. I'm using exp() and ln() math functions, it seems to compile, but gives an error when it runs
[12:41:00] <awallin> rtapi_app: symbol lookup error
[12:41:10] <awallin> temperature2frequency.so: undefined symbol: ln
[12:45:19] <awallin> maybe I want log() instead
[12:45:30] <awallin> but why would it compile with ln() ?
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[13:05:51] <mhaberler> which OS - RTAI?
[13:06:34] <mhaberler> you might want to look into MATHSTUBS in src/Makefile and the kernel math routines; it might be ln isnt there
[13:06:53] <awallin> yes, I have #include <rtapi_math.h>
[13:07:39] <mhaberler> hm, doesnt show a ln()
[13:07:47] <mhaberler> help yourself here:
http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc2-dev.git/tree/refs/heads/rtos-integration-preview1:/src/rtapi/xeno_math
[13:08:27] <mhaberler> probably e_log.c
[13:08:35] <jthornton> anyone know why gremlin gives off errors when used in a gladevcp?
[13:09:12] <mhaberler> you might be missing something chrism is doing in screen, works there and is gladevcp too
[13:09:19] <jthornton> (gui7:25398): GtkGLExt-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_get_gl_context: assertion `GTK_WIDGET_REALIZED (widget)' failed
[13:09:59] <jthornton> even in gladevcp I get the same error in the terminal IIRC
[13:10:17] <jthornton> File "/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/gladevcp/hal_gremlin.py", line 66, in <lambda>
[13:10:18] <jthornton> self.gstat.connect('file-loaded', lambda w, f: self._load(f))
[13:10:18] <jthornton> File "/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/rs274/glcanon.py", line 268, in inner
[13:10:18] <jthornton> self.deactivate()
[13:10:18] <jthornton> File "/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/gremlin.py", line 153, in deactivate
[13:10:18] <jthornton> gldrawable.gl_end()
[13:10:20] <jthornton> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'gl_end'
[13:11:21] <mhaberler> isnt there a gremlin demo under configs/gladevcp?
[13:11:22] <mhaberler> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc2-dev.git/tree/ab5220d3568783033f121f5c460c44f576b90382:/configs/gladevcp
[13:11:35] <mhaberler> cant remember if that worked though
[13:11:44] <mhaberler> chrism is the fellow to ask
[13:12:03] <jthornton> did he write the gremlin.py?
[13:12:24] <mhaberler> no, but integrate it in screen.py which is based on gladevcp
[13:12:32] <mhaberler> so integration worked there
[13:12:53] <mhaberler> he fixed some loose ends in gremlin, but methinks its jeplerware
[13:13:26] <jthornton> ok, thanks
[13:14:13] <mhaberler> famous Stalin-era reverse-engineer Prof. Wassilij Copyrensky might be your friend;)
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[15:06:10] <jepler> jthornton: the gtk warning indicates that for some reason the opengl window is not yet fully created when the deactivate method is called
[15:06:22] <jepler> this may result from trying to load a file too early in the flow of the program
[15:07:04] <jepler> you could try guarding the line gldrawable.gl_end() with 'if gldrawable is not None:' but I don't know what the effect of that may be .. possibly just another error in another location will follow
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[16:42:20] <andypugh> Is there a quick and easy way to compile my development repo on a different machine? I need to check my current develpment branch on different hardware
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[17:47:49] <L84Supper> I was kidding in the other channel about possible uses for "Ubuntu 13.04 Will Allow Instant Purchasing, Right From the Dash"
[17:47:51] <L84Supper> http://www.muktware.com/4946/ubuntu-1304-will-allow-instant-purchasing-right-dash#.UMOo39Fts_g
[17:48:24] <L84Supper> end mill must be dull by now, collant low, would you like to order some? just press this button to order
[17:49:40] <L84Supper> we have been working with LinuxCNC on Gnetoo but it's too difficult for new users
[17:51:38] <L84Supper> I know that LinuxCNC is sort of stuck on Ubuntu but what if i or somebody I work with was to offer a Live CD on Debian or something else that is just as easy to use?
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[17:53:11] <L84Supper> without all the unbuntu bloat and other changes they make
[17:57:52] <L84Supper> I'm just thinking down the road is ubuntu gets any crazier it would also be a way for everyone here to more easily migrate
[18:04:01] <andypugh> Arguably it isn't a problem until it won't all fit on the LiveCD
[18:04:56] <andypugh> What's the relative proportion of users who hate the bloat, to those who would be discouraged from trying Linux because there is no in-browser music purchasing?
[18:09:05] <awallin> with the rtos work and xenomai, getting linuxcnc to run under other distros should be just a matter of packaging?
[18:16:24] <kwallace> I tried Wheezy a while back but I didn't have time to work out the bugs and gave up. I just checked the wiki and it looks like someone, Charles, fixed it?
[18:19:27] <kwallace> I think it would be nice to have a choice of packages, but it seems the mix of resources and motivation hasn't produced them yet.
[18:24:50] <L84Supper> awallin: is xenomai the plan for the future for LinuxCNC vs RTAI?
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[18:26:59] <awallin> xenomai appears to be a strong candidate. mhaberler's work makes it possible to run on all three rtai/xenomai/rt_preempt with just a configure-option change
[18:27:03] <L84Supper> I noticed that xenomai was used for the two ports to ARM
[18:27:14] <L84Supper> oh, great
[18:27:21] <awallin> rtai is supposed to give best performance, followed by xenomai second and rt_preempt third
[18:27:30] <awallin> but I haven't seen anyone report numbers yet
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[18:30:17] <L84Supper> we were planning on showing LinuxCNC on an AMD fusion board around China, but now there are some possible ARM boards as well
[18:30:49] <mhaberler> I hope we have a candidate for wider preview short after new year; there are some moving parts missing yet but in progres
[18:30:54] <L84Supper> quad core ARM 1,8GHz with GPU's under $100
[18:31:00] <awallin> I got an itx-sized lga1155 board. it takes i3, i5 or even i7. I got an i3 for it
[18:31:09] <awallin> just easier to stick with x86 :)
[18:31:57] <L84Supper> I've been designing x86 mainboards and hardware for 30 years, ARM since sometime in the 90's
[18:32:12] <L84Supper> I try to avoid code myself
[18:33:24] <L84Supper> the software engineers we have in China are all ex AMD and ARM firmware BIOS devs
[18:33:44] <L84Supper> so the low level stuff is not a problem
[18:34:33] <L84Supper> not sure yet what will gain traction for the CNC market in China
[18:35:32] <awallin> just saw an episode of "top gear" y-day: the chinese seem to be pretty good at copying western cars at least!
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[18:35:52] <awallin> so I guess they must already have siemens and fanuc control copies?
[18:36:03] <L84Supper> yeah, pretty much copy anything, even the bugs
[18:36:25] <L84Supper> it's new tech that you generally don't find
[18:38:46] <L84Supper> we are working on new types of 3d printers there
[18:39:22] <L84Supper> embedded Linux along with LinuxCNC
[18:39:30] <mhaberler> arm or x86?
[18:40:19] <L84Supper> as we meet the CNC and machine makers I'm just looking to see where we can get LinuxCNC to fit
[18:40:26] <L84Supper> ARM and x86
[18:40:44] <mhaberler> my mail address for PO's is… )
[18:42:14] <L84Supper> all the nice ARM soc's have been under allocation elsewhere but we are just getting our hands on decent SOC's
[18:43:27] <L84Supper> http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/main.php
[18:43:45] <L84Supper> http://cubieboard.org/
[18:44:27] <L84Supper> http://wandboard.org/
[18:44:47] <kwallace> Here is a whole system at about the same price:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=DC7700SFF-C2D180-MAR-R&cat=SYS
[18:46:17] <mhaberler> well no matter how many cores you throw at the issue, with that kind of architecture this isnt going to be RT like in an fpga or microcontroller; the extra cores are nice but dont address the underlying issue
[18:46:43] <L84Supper> the difference is that we make mainboards and embedded systems, and this would be for industrial applications vs hobby retrofits
[18:47:35] <L84Supper> I've already talked to peter about using his VHDL and FPGA's onboard, so the software would not be much of a change
[18:48:41] <mhaberler> good
[18:49:26] <L84Supper> or even just making the GPIO compatible with his Mesa cards, or if the SOC has PCIe it's easy
[18:50:19] <mhaberler> if you are ok with some jitter on the gpio thats fine - then you can use the SoC GPIO's but that has all the RTOS jitter attached
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[18:50:42] <L84Supper> right now were are just using Gentoo with LinuxCNC on AMD boards
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[18:52:38] <L84Supper> Intel doesn't share BIOS specs, so we're dependent on Google doing the coreboot support if we use Intel
[18:52:55] <L84Supper> and I've really lost faith in AMD's management
[18:53:06] <L84Supper> but we have full docs to everything
[18:53:24] <mhaberler> btw I just found an example for the BeagleBone am335x PRU - a fellow did a softpwm in the am335x realtime unit, virtually jitter free - no cache stalls, no context switches:
https://github.com/pomarek/sw_pwm/tree/master/pwm
[18:54:21] <mhaberler> still using bb GPIO, no extra hardware
[18:54:40] <mhaberler> not sure how well that will scale, but a few folks are trying
[18:55:51] <L84Supper> marek, it might be the same marek from coreboot, he's a Sysgo dev
[18:56:02] <mhaberler> if the stepper is done the same way, RTOS jitter is only responsible for commanded position noise, and even that can be corrected for in software I think
[18:58:53] <L84Supper> most of the ARM work so far has been to see if they could do it
[18:59:20] <mhaberler> 'they'?
[18:59:36] <L84Supper> we would have to support a GUI and all the typical IO and motors
[19:00:16] <L84Supper> more of a project for fun
[19:00:19] <mhaberler> actually the xenomai port under construction does run on the bb, even Axis with remote X
[19:00:40] <mhaberler> but the concept of the whole monty on a single CPU is a looser anyway
[19:01:27] <mhaberler> HP tried and failed miserably for the idiocy of running the printer firmware in windows
[19:02:45] <mhaberler> do your printers have a UI?
[19:02:52] <mhaberler> (local, that is?)
[19:03:08] <L84Supper> the other problem with ARM is accelerated graphics, there are Android binary drivers
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[19:03:52] <L84Supper> yes local UI
[19:03:53] <mhaberler> right, another reason to separate
[19:03:58] <mhaberler> oh
[19:04:27] <L84Supper> they can monitor them remotely over the network as well
[19:05:11] <L84Supper> we are working 3D printers for manufacturing, it the reprap stuff
[19:05:57] <L84Supper> high print rates, printers that combine several types of printing tech in one machine
[19:06:16] <mhaberler> hm, cool
[19:06:18] <L84Supper> SLA + Inkjet-ish for instance
[19:06:44] <L84Supper> so you end up with finished products made of multiple materials
[19:06:53] <mhaberler> great idea
[19:07:32] <L84Supper> also much faster rates that what you typically see with SLA, 10x faster
[19:07:50] <L84Supper> not injection molding speeds yet, but that is the target
[19:08:18] <mhaberler> what target market?
[19:08:35] <L84Supper> so that is why we are using LinuxCNC vs what you might find in a reprap
[19:08:56] <mhaberler> excellent noises, now we're talking numbers
[19:09:02] <L84Supper> printed electronics, automotive, aerospace
[19:09:55] <L84Supper> print circuit boards out of liquids faster than you can mill, plate, etch, drill, laminate like the current process
[19:09:59] <mhaberler> so higher end of the markets
[19:10:22] <mhaberler> multilayer?
[19:10:35] <L84Supper> yes, multilayer
[19:10:38] <mhaberler> got a video shot somewhere?
[19:11:19] <L84Supper> I'm mentioning more here than I usually do anywhere
[19:11:26] <mhaberler> I see
[19:11:37] <mhaberler> it would go into my 'CNC Porn' folder
[19:11:56] <L84Supper> video soon-ish
[19:12:16] <mhaberler> keep me posted, I'm very curious
[19:13:45] <L84Supper> that why I'm asking the odd questions at times
[19:14:01] <L84Supper> we have to support this, and we dropped Ubuntu 2 years ago
[19:14:25] <L84Supper> trying to plan ahead
[19:14:51] <mhaberler> ah, RTOS rot..
[19:15:03] <mhaberler> very fickle space to be in
[19:15:22] <L84Supper> even considered RHEL, but they would not understand this in China
[19:15:48] <L84Supper> they sell licensed copies of Windows for a few $$
[19:16:55] <mhaberler> I would hope that eventually we arrive at a combination where the latency of rt-preempt is good enough for trajectory planning maybe with jitter correction, and the rest goes to hardware behind userland drivers - that is a manageable approach - kernel drivers for the full bestiary of RTOSes isnt, that just doesnt scale
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[19:18:05] <mhaberler> if that works out, and rt-preempt goes into mainline, and xenomai goes rt-preempt, it's smoother sailing
[19:19:38] <L84Supper> we talked to the main RTAI dev and he sent us his latest patches, it's still a ways off from working in 3.x
[19:21:38] <mhaberler> well stand back a minute. He's a prof at the Politecnico di Milano. Now just watch the public university funding drying up in Europe as we speak (you can read that as 'more teaching load and less funded projects') - what does that tell you for that option?
[19:22:10] <mhaberler> between a rock and a hard place
[19:22:36] <mhaberler> I dont envy university folks in Europe
[19:22:49] <L84Supper> yeah, didn't know that, he was happy to get help
[19:23:37] <mhaberler> and it is going to get _much_ worse over here, we're busily bailing out ClubMed and tanking the euro while at it
[19:23:47] <L84Supper> maybe xenomai is the best direction until further notice
[19:24:01] <andypugh> Also EU legislation meaning that academics can only be 100% govenment-funded or 100% private funded.
[19:24:40] <mhaberler> for the arm boards it is definitely - same effort but much better results than rt-preempt
[19:24:42] <L84Supper> that's why we moved to China before everything sinks :)
[19:24:52] <andypugh> (When I was in academia the rules were that every reseaech project should be part-funded by an industrial sponsor. That's now illegal)
[19:24:58] <mhaberler> andypugh: is that in the works?
[19:25:02] <mhaberler> really???
[19:25:39] <mhaberler> do you mean 'projects' or 'academics'?
[19:25:48] <andypugh> It's a side-effect of rules intended to prevent governments subsidising their industries, I think.
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[19:25:49] <L84Supper> we looked into the new Obama manufacturing and development initiative here for 3DP
[19:26:04] <L84Supper> they only will match private funding
[19:26:53] <mhaberler> if you can use lots of cheap energy, US might be an option right now, but that problem doesnt look like a match
[19:27:47] <andypugh> I only know this second-hand (from a German, who was strongly in favour).
[19:28:20] <mhaberler> over here it's pretty much all public-funded universities; we dont have these money-making-machines-disguised-as-universitites like MIT and Stanford
[19:29:58] <mhaberler> I was impressed by Stanford - a lab with 8 profs, and 2 fulltime ladies busily raking in industry money (and the university gets a 50% cut from every buck)
[19:30:12] <L84Supper> China is 33% gov grants, 33% guaranteed low interest (1-2%) matching loans and 33% guaranteed private funding
[19:33:51] <L84Supper> automation parts and robots still come from Taiwan
[19:34:10] <L84Supper> but they are getting closer
[19:34:40] <mhaberler> well, very interesting to talk to you, but I gotta run, downtow's calling;)
[19:35:37] <L84Supper> back to work here myself
[19:36:47] <L84Supper> good to have the update on the RTOS as well, thanks
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