#linuxcnc-devel | Logs for 2012-10-20

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[00:09:45] <andypugh> I am pretty sure that Visteurs is running JA3 on some machines too.
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[04:32:03] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03victor_rocco 05mb2hal-candidate ed1dbb7 06emc2 10src/ 10(14 files in 3 dirs) * mb2hal: HAL component to communicate with Modbus devices.
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[04:33:45] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03TODO: deletor 05jog-while-paused-preview2 9a35fb1 06emc2 04. * branch deleted
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[11:02:09] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03jthornton 05v2.5_branch 1062c3b 06emc2 10docs/src/gui/gladevcp.txt * Docs: add link to GladeVCP Custom Widgets
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[17:54:51] <L84Supper> other than RTAI on new kernels what else does LinuxCNC need help with?
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[18:04:28] <awallin> L84Supper: a graphical viewer and/or editor for HAL comes up every once in a while
[18:04:47] <L84Supper> yeah, that would be nice
[18:05:24] <awallin> cutting simulation (If youre good at graphics and GUIs I have some work on the stock-model)
[18:07:43] <L84Supper> we will take a look at that
[18:08:39] <L84Supper> also looking at easy to use user interfaces
[18:08:56] <awallin> then there's trajectory planning and lookahead if you really want math and 'deep' stuff :)
[18:09:42] <L84Supper> the devs in China have no problem if it's a useful feature
[18:10:09] <L84Supper> we should be able to have 1-2 full time devs early next year
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[18:10:38] <awallin> for high speed machining and lookahead you probably want capable hardware also to test on
[18:11:06] <L84Supper> we are going to have coreboot support for an AMD APU mainboard
[18:11:33] <L84Supper> and also use custom Mesa FPGA and IO hardware
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[18:12:21] <awallin> ok, what is this project about?
[18:12:39] <L84Supper> turn key CNC machine controllers
[18:12:45] <L84Supper> using LinuxCNC
[18:13:03] <awallin> ah, OK.
[18:13:05] <L84Supper> plus we are also using LinuxCNC in the more complicated 3D printers
[18:13:19] <awallin> most new servodrives are step/dir, is that going to be the main output method
[18:13:32] <L84Supper> we are already making printers
[18:14:19] <L84Supper> we are considering making the turn key CNC controllers as a separate product
[18:14:58] <L84Supper> http://www.syntecclub.com.tw/2010/HTML/Product.aspx is about as close as you get to China made controller
[18:18:34] <awallin> someone on the finnish forum was importing some controllers. "hust" maybe? not sure if they are chinese or not
[18:19:07] <L84Supper> http://www.bmedm.com/product/262-cnc-machining-center-bvmc650-bvmc650-e473/ these guys are right down the street from us
[18:20:19] <L84Supper> we are going to see if we can get LinuxCNC into machine tools made there
[18:21:03] <L84Supper> Hust is also Taiwan
[18:21:21] <L84Supper> http://www.hust.com.tw/tw/index.php#
[18:22:01] <awallin> that looks like capable hardware. you will probably run into current linuxcnc lookahead limitations if you try some HSM-paths on those machines. better get a CAM-progarm that can produce HSM paths also.
[18:25:54] <L84Supper> the devs in China have just begun to work with LinuxCNC, after a few weeks they should start adding commits
[18:26:40] <skunkworks> Can we start saying things like - 'In linuxcnc ver3 we will have better lookahead and yada yada yada' ;) (mach4 stab)
[18:26:52] <L84Supper> ouch the Syntec stuff is Windows CE6.0 CORE
[18:26:55] <skunkworks> s-curve acc...
[18:28:23] <L84Supper> LX900 motherboard, 256MB DRAM
[18:28:54] <L84Supper> so it might be a Knotron Geode LX900 board
[18:29:01] <L84Supper> Kontron
[18:29:15] <L84Supper> 600mhz
[18:29:30] <L84Supper> pentium class x86
[18:30:23] <L84Supper> controller equipped with Yaskawa Mechatrolink-II serial (bus) communication
[18:31:05] <L84Supper> 8 Axis servo motors with 32 I / O points
[18:32:03] <L84Supper> so no x86 performance
[18:33:06] <L84Supper> awallin, we are slicing 3d models using the GPU
[18:33:59] <L84Supper> awallin: how about trajectory planning and simulation using the GPU
[18:34:00] <awallin> L84Supper: sounds nice. do you require the STL-models to be manifold ("water tight")? Can your algorithm work with milling-cutters instead? Is it open-source?
[18:35:59] <L84Supper> awallin: it's all in the works, I don't see why it won't work with milling-cutters
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[18:36:18] <L84Supper> output now are slices as bitmaps
[18:37:35] <L84Supper> but nothing has been done for milling yet
[18:39:26] <awallin> for constant-Z milling paths one has to do the calculations in 3D, 'pushing' the cutter against each triangle. There's still room for improvement in the current opencamlib implementation...
[18:39:49] <L84Supper> this looks like a good fit for GPU's
[18:40:52] <L84Supper> it's being made to work with openGL and openGL ES
[18:41:15] <L84Supper> so if ARM SOC's ever become a viable option the support is there
[18:42:30] <awallin> I thought OpenCL is the gpu-computing standard?
[18:42:40] <L84Supper> we'll start looking this all over
[18:43:32] <L84Supper> yeah GL for rendering, CL for the computer
[18:43:41] <L84Supper> Computing
[18:45:22] <L84Supper> I'm trying to avoid software myself :)
[18:46:10] <L84Supper> http://developer.amd.com/tools/hc/Pages/default.aspx
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[18:47:19] <awallin> do you have linuxcnc running on an embedded amd-board already?
[18:47:27] <L84Supper> awallin, that would be slick if it's not a real headache to get the heavy computational stuff working in the GPU
[18:47:52] <L84Supper> awallin, using AMD boards now, yes
[18:49:38] <L84Supper> coreboot is also working with the AMD E-350 APU mini-itx boards
[18:50:01] <awallin> that's a BIOS?
[18:50:24] <L84Supper> it also supports all the desktop Xdoser cpu's and latest chipsets
[18:50:56] <awallin> why do you want a custom BIOS? do you have to hack it for your controllers?
[18:51:19] <L84Supper> coreboot is a BIOS replacement, so we can optimize hardware register settings , IRQ's and skip SMI
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[18:53:33] <L84Supper> near instant boot and lowest IRQ latency
[18:54:13] <L84Supper> the same devs are ex AMD employees and coreboot devs
[18:54:44] <awallin> ok, how about some cnc+machining experience?
[18:54:56] <awallin> the trajectory work requires some math-skills also..
[18:55:13] <L84Supper> that's why we were considering a optimized LinuxCNC turn key system
[18:55:58] <L84Supper> one is also an ex nvidia cude dev, so the math work is not a problem
[18:56:15] <L84Supper> they get sent back to the farms if they don't do well :)
[18:57:48] <L84Supper> lets see how it goes over the next few months
[18:59:20] <L84Supper> awallin, I've been on the hardware and mech side for 30+ years, so I guide them through the actual machine operations
[18:59:31] <L84Supper> they are quick learners
[18:59:53] <L84Supper> probably running all the machines soon as well
[19:00:41] <L84Supper> plus everyone else here can try their work and provide feedback
[19:00:57] <awallin> ok, sounds interesting. I wonder what the controller share of a big VMC cost like that is? If the VMC is 100k does it really matter if you pay 2k or 5k for the controller? Ofcourse it's nice if it's open-source...
[19:01:30] <L84Supper> yeah, and also the support
[19:02:07] <L84Supper> we are already controlling lasers, spindles and inkjets
[19:02:09] <andypugh> I am guessing the attraction is that they can make their own customisations.
[19:02:33] <L84Supper> yes, the flexibility
[19:03:30] <andypugh> Have you seen the roboard boards? Lots of IO and run LinuxCNC OK.
[19:03:31] <L84Supper> everything that Linux comes with
[19:03:41] <L84Supper> no
[19:04:05] <L84Supper> http://www.roboard.com/ ?
[19:04:18] <andypugh> That's the one
[19:04:24] <L84Supper> Vortex86DX, a 32bit x86 CPU running at 1000MHz with 256MB DRAM
[19:04:44] <andypugh> RB110 might actually be more interesting than NCBOX-189
[19:05:22] <L84Supper> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157324&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-NA-_-NA something like this for a low end mainboard
[19:06:18] <andypugh> Yes, but some of the Roboard boards have lots of onboard IO, like 16 PWM channels and ADCs
[19:06:33] <andypugh> (and are also in tw)
[19:06:56] <L84Supper> thats why I was looking at the Mesa VHDL for an IO card
[19:07:12] <L84Supper> already talked to peter about this for a while
[19:07:43] <L84Supper> so it would work with all the mesa support
[19:08:40] <L84Supper> a small APU board has enough stream processors in it to slice STL in real time at 1920 x 1080
[19:10:14] <L84Supper> and the low end <$100 GPU cards have 512 stream processors
[19:11:03] <L84Supper> so we can see about how much trajectory planning they can handle
[19:12:14] <L84Supper> we already have to write most of this anyway, the difference is just adding support for mills and lathes vs 3d printers
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[19:14:34] <L84Supper> the other thing is looking back into Comedi support
[19:14:50] <L84Supper> we'll see how it goes
[19:15:46] <L84Supper> I have no problem making the hardware if it makes sense
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[20:24:12] <andypugh> Can anyone think of a robust way for a comp to find a header file?
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[20:25:05] <andypugh> The problem is that when the #include is interpreted the generated C file isn't where the .comp file was.
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[22:21:32] <alex_joni> and where is the header file supposed to be?
[22:21:53] <alex_joni> usually there's a -I linuxcnc/include passed at compile time
[22:22:15] <alex_joni> so if the header file gets copied there, it should just be a simple #include "foo.h
[22:22:18] <alex_joni> "
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[22:46:54] <andypugh> Sorry alex_joni, I was afj
[22:46:58] <andypugh> afk even
[22:52:29] <alex_joni> well.. it's been 2h ;)
[22:53:06] <alex_joni> since you first asked
[22:54:34] <andypugh> The problem is that the file I want to #include is hostmot2.h
[22:55:00] <alex_joni> ok
[22:55:23] <andypugh> in src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2 and simply using the filename doesn't work (or didn't when I tried it a year or so ago)
[22:55:48] <alex_joni> it should
[22:56:00] <alex_joni> most likely it'll get copied to lcnc/include
[22:56:03] <alex_joni> during the compile
[22:56:16] <alex_joni> but you can check if it's there when/if it fails
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[23:02:47] <andypugh> This may take a while..
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[23:38:06] <andypugh> Make failed.
[23:38:21] <alex_joni> can you check if it's in include/ ?
[23:38:30] <andypugh> It isn't
[23:38:33] <alex_joni> it might be that comp's get compiled earlier
[23:38:38] <alex_joni> and then it isn't there
[23:38:53] <andypugh> Seems plausible.
[23:39:08] <alex_joni> I have no idea how to fix that
[23:39:18] <alex_joni> in a commitable way
[23:39:43] <andypugh> I wonder if I can just move the comp into mesa_hostmot2?
[23:39:50] <alex_joni> you can
[23:39:56] <andypugh> It won't get auto-built in there, though.
[23:40:02] <alex_joni> but it won't get picked up by the build system
[23:41:19] <andypugh> And won't help at all with building it with comp, not that that is important in this case. (unless someone wants to use it as a model for their own BSPI comp)
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[23:41:32] <alex_joni> you can rename/remove the comp
[23:41:36] <alex_joni> then let the make finish
[23:41:43] <alex_joni> then rename it back and make again
[23:43:19] <andypugh> That sounds less elegant than the untidy #include line to me.
[23:43:59] <alex_joni> yup
[23:45:19] <andypugh> I was hoping that there might be a macro that pointed to the current src directory, so at least an absolute path can be used rather than a down-and-up-again relative one.
[23:46:21] <alex_joni> is this a component for you? or for sharing?
[23:47:34] <andypugh> It's already part of the distribution.
[23:47:50] <alex_joni> ah.. then hacks don't work ;)
[23:49:15] <andypugh> (actually, it is only in Master)
[23:49:59] <andypugh> It isn't causing any trouble as it is, it builds cleanly, but seems like it could be fragile.
[23:50:16] <andypugh> And I don't like the way it can make but not comp
[23:50:44] <alex_joni> maybe a comp is not suitable then?
[23:51:54] <andypugh> Well, the aim was to make it integrator-friendly. The idea is that other people can copy the structure to make their own BSPI interfaces.
[23:52:54] <andypugh> I could re-write it all in C, but that seems like a lot of work for negligible gain.
[23:53:30] <andypugh> (and then it probably _still_ won't build with comp)
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