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[00:04:22] <bpuk> hmm, I take it there is a delay between posting to the mailing list and it showing up
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[01:25:44] <KimK> bpuk: It would be great if your N block numbering scheme could allow for N numbers of the (usual?) form Nnnnnn and also (up to) Nnnnn.nnn which is an alternate form of N number allowed by Dynapath (Autocon) controls.
[01:28:12] <KimK> Not too long ago I asked if N numbers of this type could be accommodated, since they were just ignored anyway, and a patch was very kindly and quickly supplied. (Thanks again for that, it allows Dynapath G-code to run without N-number modification, at least. I can't swear as to any other modification.
[01:28:55] <KimK> Now it looks like you're going to be using the long-ignored N numbers? (At least in this limited case?)
[01:30:27] <KimK> (This was Dynapath's solution to inserting lines between existing lines. So 10.5 could go between 10 and 11, etc. Up to N9999.999.)
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[09:45:54] <bpuk> KimK: I can't imagine that would be a problem. I'll have a look and see - but since I'm only using it to find two specific blocks it should be trivial.
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[09:52:24] <KimK> bpuk: Great, thanks very much. And thanks also for working on this to begin with. I presume the change away from U,V was necessitated by LinuxCNC's general form 9-axis use of XYZABCUVW? I noticed this was commented on in the mailing list.
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[09:54:48] <bpuk> It was - I'm still unsure of what the UW axes would be on a lathe - but previous discussion (2010) indicated that UVW were reserved and not available
[09:58:32] <awallin> I thought UVW are supposed to be secondary XYZ axes, for example on a mill where you can both move the table and the quill in Z
[09:59:08] <KimK> Ha, well, U and W would be the "other" X and the "other" Z, hence the complaint. I sympathize with the complainant, I also would like to retain g-code compatiblilty with Fanuc, and most others (I think 99% do that). But, as the saying goes, "whaddya gonna do?" We have other fish to fry, I'm afraid.
[09:59:16] <KimK> Hi awallin, how are things?
[09:59:51] <awallin> KimK: hi. not much cnc:ing lately, a bit of cam-programming now and then..
[10:00:43] <KimK> Excellent. I always look forward to your CAM experiments and resulting screenshots. Keep it up!
[10:01:11] <awallin> thanks :)
[10:01:23] <andypugh> bpuk: Not an entirely academic point, here is an XZ / UW lathe currently being converted:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=38&id=23023#23023
[10:01:56] <bpuk> ah-ha - and suddenly it makes sense :D
[10:02:08] <bpuk> thanks all for clarifying that for me
[10:02:55] <andypugh> Steve Blackmore is obsessed with being "standard" whereas others prefer to be "more considered than standard"
[10:03:48] <andypugh> He also doesn't like how G33 pitch is measured along the hypotenuse. Not appreciating that that means you can create scroll threads.
[10:04:05] <bpuk> good to know ;)
[10:04:08] <andypugh> (and that it is trivial to correct the pitch for tapers)
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[10:04:52] <bpuk> I'm just looking at the remap stuff I was pointed to on the mailing list
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[10:05:42] <bpuk> the two bits that are looking non-trivial so far are: UW support, much further down the line generating partial moves for type 2
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[10:07:37] <KimK> Hi Andy, good morning, thanks for posting that. Oh, and bpuk, on the subject of XZ & UW (or in this case XY and UV), there's work going on on foam-cutting/4-axis-wire-EDM (take your pick I guess), so that's another case of being able (or at least wanting) to use the "other" axis simultaneously. I think that's at least mostly working now, isn't it?
[10:07:59] <awallin> I think the basic assumption for linuxcnc has always been that we are moving one "thing" in 6-dof. Extending that is maybe on mhaberler's linuxcnc3 todo list?
[10:08:14] <KimK> I remember there were some good screenshots posted.
[10:09:42] <mhaberler> awallin: see
http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net/msg07230.html
[10:10:11] <KimK> They call it 6-dof? Not 9-dof? I know the W axis makes for very convenient drilling once A and/or B are at an angle. Hi mhaberler, welcome.
[10:10:19] <mhaberler> hi!
[10:11:42] <awallin> KimK: 6-dof makes sense for one "thing" or tool. If you have e.g. lathes with mulitple independent tools then you would have 9-dof or 12-dof or something, but not more than 6-dof for a single tool or thing you are trying to control.
[10:12:21] <mhaberler> I am fairly clueless wrt geometry, trajectory planning etc but I assume on the infrastructure level that means an overhaul of EmcPose - a list of optional 'axes', and missing axes too
[10:12:57] <mhaberler> or joints, from 2014 on (where's micges when we need him?)
[10:13:10] <KimK> awallin: OK, thanks. Maybe I'm confusing DOF with the ever popular and often repeated "XYZABCUVW".
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[10:14:46] <awallin> I think controlling independently e.g. multiple tool-turrets on a lathe requires kinematics where the two turrets really are independent. I'm not sure if that should be done by two separate threads of the same 6-dof code we have now, or a complete rewrite of the codebase to support 12-dof
[10:17:24] <awallin> and I guess some people will then want more or less tight communication/binding between the two turrets
[10:19:11] <awallin> we probably need something new called MAL: machine abstraction layer :)
[10:20:40] <KimK> Ha! What do you do with G71 on a four axis lathe? On the first tool/turret, X & Z set things up and U & W describes the profile? And on the second tool/turret, U & W set things up and X & Z describe the profile? Sounds like trouble waiting to happen.
[10:20:53] <bpuk> mhaberler: I'd never really looked at remap - most of the code as-is should port over to python (ugh, my head). Just trying to see how argspecs would work for dual-turret lathes
[10:21:54] <KimK> bpuk: Your J & L sounds better for both, lol
[10:21:58] <mhaberler> argspec is the cattle-class simple case. You can do arbitrary extraction and check of words from a block with a custom prolog in Python.
[10:22:18] <bpuk> KimK: actually, as bizarre as it sounds - I don't actually use XZ or UW in the block itself...
[10:22:34] <mhaberler> why port to Python? make it an NGC procedure - Python is just the glue code
[10:23:11] <mhaberler> I mean if you are really determined you can do it in Python but you loose a lot of mileage by departing from gcode
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[10:23:38] <bpuk> because I'm probably making it more complex than it needs to be ;) still thinking through all the code I haven't written yet for it
[10:24:17] <mhaberler> forget about the cycle thing for now - just make it an oword procedure with params - I'll help you wrapping it up in a remapped cycle when done
[10:24:52] <bpuk> time to learn oword procedures :P
[10:25:15] <mhaberler> there! all these newfangled concepts. They call it a 'subroutine' ;)
[10:25:26] <bpuk> heh
[10:31:30] <bpuk> hmm... actually, XZUW are never actually called on the G71 line to refer to an axis position. Which axes are being used depends entirely upon the start position and what's used within the profile block
[10:31:38] <bpuk> brb
[10:31:39] <mhaberler> I think those were already available ca 1974 when I had to use an IBM 1401 FORTRAN 'furnace' ;)
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[10:37:30] <bpuk> yeah, subroutines aren't a problem - just another set of syntax
[10:39:27] <bpuk> but carrying on with that last thought, since they aren't used in terms of an axis - is there a reason I couldn't use UW as per other controllers? might be a bit guilty of circular thinking atm
[10:43:55] <andypugh> You probably could use UW as offsets in the G71 line unless the interpreter grabbed them first. And probably then use them to mean something very different in the N-block if roughing with the second head.
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[10:44:42] <andypugh> I am still struggling with mhaberler's suggestion that you can offset and slice an arbitrary profile in pure G-code though.
[10:46:03] <bpuk> I'm hoping that I'm just missing something obvious about how readahead works
[10:46:30] <andypugh> (unless I have misunderstood the suggestion of re-coding as an O-word sub)
[10:48:13] <andypugh> I have written G-code to stop short of a curve on roughing passes, then do a finish pass, but the curve parameters were explicitly in the G-code, not pulled out of G-code lines elsewhere in the file.
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[10:58:17] <bpuk> the other part which makes it tricky is that the lines in the profile block need G codes - at least G0-G3, which doesn't normally happen in cycles
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[11:20:54] <bpuk> Hmm. the only way I can see to work it is to keep the code changes (or similar) in rs274ngc_pre.cc which store the block in memory. Once that's done the rest of the code should be doable using remapping - but without all the profile blocks being available it's pretty much a no-go
[11:23:29] <andypugh> I think mhaberler needs to clarify what he meant.
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[12:29:25] <bpuk> KimK: I have just tested with G71 P0001.001 Q99999.999 N0001.001 G0...... N9999.999 G1 X5 - it appears to work with no problems. if you have an example of code which doesn't parse, I could use a copy to debug
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[12:34:23] <jthornton> when you give a base period of 0 what does that mean?
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[15:32:58] <cnc-desktop> hi - which language? german?? *hope*
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[16:07:40] <andypugh> cnc-desktop: You mean this IRC? Mainly english. But I just saw a German-speaker and a Russian appear.
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[16:37:00] <cnc-desktop> hi - yes :) Sorry, was to meal (Abendbrot)
[16:38:21] <cnc-desktop> can emc2 display the time to finish the Program? (Kann man in EMC2 irgenwie/irgendwo einstellen, daß man die Restlaufzeit sehen kann?)
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[16:40:52] <cnc-desktop> Akut passt die in den Eigenschaften angezeigte Laufzeit des aktuellen GCode nicht wirklich mit der wirklich benötigten Zeit zusammen, was eine Art Planung etwas behindert ... Mir würde es, so denke ich, reichen, wenn ich eine Anzeige hätte, Welche (langsam) gegen Null zählt
[16:41:13] <cnc-desktop> reine Hobby-Nutzung
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[16:45:20] <andypugh> cnc-desktop: File->properties gives a clue.
[16:55:32] <cnc-desktop> in properties i can see the time over all, but this time is not the machine-time to work. can i display the rest of time to work to finish?
[17:01:18] <cradek> cnc-desktop: no, sorry
[17:01:25] <andypugh> Unfortunately, even LinuxCNC doesn't know. It only looks ahead one block, and the time is very strongly dependent on machine accelleration limits.
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[17:51:12] <bpuk> well, at least the bugs in my code are all non-obvious ones now, albiet somewhat wierd
[17:54:02] <skunkworks__> been there...
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[17:56:35] <bpuk> that's... interesting - the spec calls for an (optional) S word to define the spindle speed. But it doesn't allow direction to be specified M3/M4...
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[18:08:51] <andypugh> Seems almost reasonable. I guess you would set direction and mode (CSS etc) elsewhere
[18:11:49] <bpuk> mmm, in that case I just need to check that the spindle is running and set the speed
[18:42:00] <cnc-desktop> thx for answer - sorry, was in city
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[19:29:07] <bpuk> couple of interesting posts just went up on the mailing list - one of which clears up how some commercial controls handle it
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