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[01:38:21] <skunkworks__> cradek: I pulled the latest master. Locking_indexer = 1 only half works on a linear axis. It doesn't allow you to jog but it doesn't create the axis.n.whatever pins.
[01:39:26] <skunkworks__> I'll make a bug report.
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[15:21:27] <alex_joni> skunkworks: bug report is nice, but a patch would be even better ;)
[15:24:50] <skunkworks> alex_joni, Yes - I know... Sorry
[15:25:00] <skunkworks> How is it going?
[15:26:13] <alex_joni> ah, pretty ok.. travelling for work currently
[15:26:20] <alex_joni> hope to be back by friday night
[15:27:09] <skunkworks> Shirley is ready to pop. :)
[15:27:24] <skunkworks> 23'rd is the official date.
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[15:27:45] <alex_joni> whee.. congrats
[15:27:59] <alex_joni> then you have a weeks to finish all your pending projects
[15:28:05] <alex_joni> s/weeks/week/
[15:28:13] <alex_joni> (like the puma..)
[15:28:13] <skunkworks> heh
[15:28:39] <skunkworks> I have not had any shop time for a while. (bathroom remodel - child readyness)
[15:29:43] <alex_joni> get used to it ;)
[15:29:53] <skunkworks> for sure :)
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[15:55:23] <skunkworks> Tormach!
[16:07:40] <rogge> skunkworks: yes?
[16:08:00] <skunkworks> so - is the new lathe going to run mach also?
[16:08:48] <rogge> mach 3 has threading issues that we've been unable to work around.
[16:09:19] <skunkworks> Giggle giggle.. linuxcnc doesn't....
[16:09:56] <skunkworks> The video demo that you guys did - can you say what you used to control it?
[16:10:12] <rogge> linuxcnc!
[16:10:20] <skunkworks> awesome
[16:10:38] <rogge> we're excited... it's been great so far.
[16:11:11] <skunkworks> Great. Mach does have some external hardware motion cards that suposidly threading works on...
[16:12:28] <skunkworks> But I think for the flexibility and stability - linuxcnc is the way to go (of course I am biased...)
[16:13:58] <rogge> it's certailny nice to have such a knowledgable community of developers.
[16:14:31] <rogge> the ability to fix/change things in the source ourselves is an added bonus.
[16:15:42] <skunkworks> Isn't that nice :) Are any fixes able to be pushed back into the linuxcnc project?
[16:16:10] <rogge> Everything that we've found or changed so far we've put up on the sourceforge tracker.
[16:16:29] <rogge> cradek has committed the two bug fixes back to 2.4, I think.
[16:16:46] <rogge> the Fanuc tool change stuff needs documentation
[16:17:00] <rogge> and some clamoring from other users who want it
[16:17:01] <skunkworks> ah - neat
[16:17:07] <rogge> before it will go in.
[16:17:37] <skunkworks> I am glad you have had a positive experience.
[16:18:02] <cradek> Hi Daniel
[16:18:11] <rogge> Hi Chris
[16:18:12] <cradek> thanks again for your bugfixes
[16:18:34] <rogge> our pleasure! Thanks for adding them to the repo.
[16:18:43] <rogge> I should mention that I
[16:18:55] <rogge> I've got a couple of collaborators here...
[16:19:35] <rogge> John Prentice is an occasional contributor to questions on the list - he is an advisor.
[16:20:30] <rogge> And we've got a fellow named Jason Penn who you may hear from in the future.
[16:22:58] <skunkworks> rogge, with gscreen - you may be able to create a gui that is mach like... ;)
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[16:26:55] <rogge> quick question - we're working on python/gui access to the emc.var parameters. any interest in this dev?
[16:27:25] <rogge> I mean, once we're finished would you like us to post the patch under the feature request section of the SF tracker?
[16:30:17] <jthornton> hmm I don't see that in linuxcnc.stat()
[16:31:02] <rogge> correct... we had to create a new nml message
[16:32:35] <jthornton> I'm just learning how to use the python interface it's cool so far
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[16:42:03] <rogge> Chris: how did python come into favor in the lcnc community?
[16:42:31] <rogge> It seems like early GUIs were tk/tcl?
[16:50:44] <psha> it's not only lcnc case
[16:52:14] <psha> today python is the scripting language, as was perl some time ago
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[17:52:17] <skunkworks> rogge, one last question if you want to answer - Do you have some sort of mach solution for those that are going to freak out?
[17:53:00] <rogge> what makes you think people will freak out?
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[17:54:19] <skunkworks> Have you read cnczone? mach vs linuxcnc? Some take their mach very seriously and linuxcnc is evil. (of course I think the opposite.)
[17:54:22] <skunkworks> ;)
[17:54:44] <skunkworks> And those people have never had problems with threading ;)
[17:54:54] <skunkworks> or mach in general
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[17:58:17] <rogge> I don't think it will be an issue.
[17:58:25] <skunkworks> That is great
[17:58:45] <skunkworks> I like to think if you show people how well it works.. It will sell them.
[17:59:21] <rogge> A lot of our customers haven't heard of either Mach or LCNC before looking at our products.
[17:59:35] <skunkworks> rogge, is there a full encoder on the spindel so you could do rigid tapping?
[17:59:42] <rogge> But you're right, the bottom line for us was the threading.
[17:59:46] <skunkworks> ABZ?
[17:59:58] <rogge> ha! I think you asked me that about our mills a while ago!
[18:00:25] <rogge> Yes.
[18:00:31] <skunkworks> awesome. I can
[18:00:42] <skunkworks> I can't wait to see more videos. :)
[18:01:10] <skunkworks> I don't remembering asking that - but I assumed not as you didn't have enough open pins on the printer port
[18:02:28] <skunkworks> (for the mill)
[18:02:44] <rogge> We're overdue for another video...
[18:03:01] <skunkworks> you have to show it rigid tapping :)
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[18:16:57] <cradek> and give up all that cash they make selling expensive tapping heads?
[18:17:55] <cradek> rogge: I hope you are not considering reading and writing the var file directly to implement your feature
[18:18:53] <cradek> (because of course you'll have synchronization problems if you do)
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[18:21:05] <cradek> I sure hate the feature of bogus power supplies toasting motherboards
[18:25:50] <rogge> cradek: not reading the var file, looking at _setup.parameters
[18:26:01] <cradek> oh, good
[18:26:04] <rogge> I can post the patch to SF if you're willing to have a look.
[18:26:44] <cradek> how do you get _setup into a gui?
[18:26:53] <rogge> nml
[18:27:22] <rogge> one parameter at a time....
[18:27:30] <rogge> the whole shebang was too big for nml
[18:27:42] <cradek> bleh
[18:27:44] <rogge> the patch just allows a single set or get
[18:27:58] <cradek> interesting though
[18:28:21] <rogge> impetus behind it is to store persitent machine info in the var file
[18:28:31] <rogge> instead of (like touchy) a prefs file
[18:28:49] <rogge> more fanuc-like (you may think I'm a fanuc-worshipper - not true)
[18:29:10] <rogge> also allows you to set up a machine to a certain state by executing a G code program
[18:29:11] <cradek> yes but then it can only handle numbers (unlike touchy)
[18:29:23] <rogge> true! something we considered....
[18:29:34] <cradek> hmmm
[18:29:46] <rogge> I'll put the patch in as a feature request...
[18:29:53] <cradek> people do consistently seem to want a variable editor
[18:30:00] <rogge> bbl - staff meeting now...
[18:30:08] <cradek> well let me rephrase. they want an offset editor, which is only vaguely like a variable editor
[18:30:11] <cradek> ok
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[18:39:40] <andypugh-iPhone> Does this fit mah's idea for a generic key/value store?
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[18:44:43] <cradek> I don't know
[18:45:40] <skunkworks_> logger[psha],
[18:45:42] <cradek> I'm a little sad now that I think rogge is doing this because he wants to emulate "that feature is controlled by bit 6 of parameter # 17559" which is very traditional in cnc controls but very crap user interface
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[18:46:40] <skunkworks_> very fanuc like..
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[18:47:14] <skunkworks_> Bit 3 of variable 10 unlocks programs 1000 and above.
[18:47:19] <andypugh-iPhone> Not the way we should be working because unlike a traditional CNC controller, we have a UI
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[18:49:26] <cradek> that is also my feeling
[18:49:38] <cradek> let's wait 'til he comes back and chat about it
[18:50:29] <andypugh-iPhone> Ask him how he would want to do it with a clean slate.
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[18:56:44] <cradek> when you wanted to make a paper tape to archive and use it to reload your whole configuration when your batteries failed, that scheme made perfect sense
[18:59:29] <rogge> cradek: Some bigger picture to clarify:
[19:00:06] <rogge> We were looking for a method to store persistent data.
[19:01:09] <rogge> The data is not user data (e.g. what font do I prefer on my UI) but machine data (e.g. was the machine shut down in G21 or G20)
[19:01:38] <rogge> The users never get to see or edit the values, at least not in the sense of needing a GUI var editor.
[19:02:22] <rogge> We considered leveraging your preferences.py, but we felt that because emc.var already existed as a storage mechanism we might leverage that instead.
[19:03:01] <rogge> There was some discussion about this - the touchy code already works for what we wanted, but added another file to keep track of
[19:03:28] <rogge> and, as was mentioned before, isn't the fanuc way of doing things.
[19:03:50] <rogge> Some would argue (and I did) that the fanuc way doesn't equal the right way.
[19:04:32] <rogge> But in the end we were seduced by the posibility of telling a user with a boogered up machine: run this g code file and it will set you back to the factory defaults.
[19:05:00] <rogge> Could we have sent them a new prefs file? Sure. There was something elegant about the g code thing though.
[19:05:42] <rogge> Anyway, no real implementation on our side has been done, and I thought someone else might be interested in having python gui-land access to the #5000+ parameters.
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[19:06:08] <skunkworks_> so - the gcode writes to the var file - then you exit and restart linuxcnc and you are back?
[19:06:20] <rogge> so I'll upload the patch to SF. Realize that the QA time on this code is nill.
[19:06:27] <rogge> skunk: no need to restart.
[19:06:36] <rogge> But that's just what we wanted to do with it.
[19:07:02] <rogge> I think there are many more general cases for having python access to the parameters.
[19:09:09] <cradek> some of the interpreter status is saved in the var file and that's totally appropriate (like whether G92 is applied)
[19:09:38] <cradek> I can see expanding this, but it seems orthogonal to the question of having a gui editor of var values
[19:10:00] <rogge> agreed. I'm not interested in such an editor.
[19:10:05] <cradek> heh
[19:10:09] <cradek> I totally misunderstood your project then
[19:10:28] <rogge> well, I ran off before I had time to explain it.
[19:10:39] <skunkworks_> so the 'viewer' just sort of gives you the state of linuxcnc?
[19:10:52] <cradek> he's not talking about a viewer at all
[19:10:52] <skunkworks_> by reading the var file?
[19:11:08] <skunkworks_> heh then I am confused aslo
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[19:11:30] <rogge> not a viewer... just a way for someone like cradek to access parameters from the python inside touchy.
[19:11:57] <skunkworks_> ah
[19:11:57] <rogge> not really useful unless you're writing a gui I suppose.
[19:12:17] <cradek> but this sure could give a gui the power to (for example) show all the coordinate system origins, not just the one currently in effect
[19:12:39] <cradek> if I am understanding it
[19:12:58] <rogge> Yep.
[19:13:15] <cradek> it would NOT give a gui the power to show variables as a running program steps/executes though
[19:13:22] <rogge> correct.
[19:13:37] <rogge> not useful during program execution.
[19:14:04] <rogge> I've not found much that is useful for display during program run, as all of the feedback is in interpreter time, not motion time
[19:14:06] <cradek> this does seem useful to me, and seems harmless to add
[19:14:18] <rogge> Well, read the code before you say that!
[19:14:21] <cradek> yes I agree with that finding
[19:14:28] <rogge> It's our first stab at adding an NML message.
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[19:14:46] <rogge> plus the python wrapper business is not our strong point@
[19:15:37] <rogge> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3558022&group_id=6744&atid=356744
[19:15:50] <rogge> has the feature request and patch
[19:16:18] <rogge> I meant to look over this a little more before submitting, so my apologies and handle with care.
[19:17:26] <rogge> cradek: it sounds like MH wants to eventually fix the disconnect between gui feedback (interp time) and motion (motion time).
[19:18:10] <cradek> yes, any long-term restructuring project ought to be done with that in mind
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[19:18:57] <rogge> Do you think there's a short term workaround that could be explored?
[19:19:15] <skunkworks_> rogge, did you guys create a new gui? or use/modify an existing gui?
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[19:19:56] <skunkworks_> rogge, what is it that you are missing? Or wishing to do?
[19:20:15] <rogge> working on a new one, but standing on a lot of the work (emcmodule.cc, gremlin, for instance) that went into touchy and axis
[19:20:55] <skunkworks_> Neat
[19:21:02] <rogge> reading standing on the shoulders of....
[19:21:14] <skunkworks_> not stomping on? ;)
[19:21:24] <rogge> no stomping here...
[19:21:28] <cradek> touchy seems like a really strong starting point
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[19:21:49] <cradek> it's pretty fresh, hasn't had time for much organic growth yet
[19:21:53] <rogge> touchy was my education in both LCNC and python. Thanks for that, cradek!
[19:22:24] <rogge> when was touchy first introduced?
[19:23:39] <cradek> mid 2009
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[19:50:55] <skunkworks_> wait - why are there 2 of my bugs in the tracker now?
[19:51:33] <skunkworks_> I don't think I did that..
[19:53:03] <skunkworks_> I wonder If I had the page up and did a funky back/refresh and somehow re-sent it.
[19:53:29] <skunkworks_> sorry about that.
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[21:12:00] <mhaberler> rogge: around?
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