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[11:08:02] <mhaberler> please shoot down the following idea from the kludge zone: "a touchoff during pause can be faked by applying changed offsets in a kins module"
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[13:17:13] <cradek> mhaberler: the kludge zone problem is that you must apply the offset when a move happens, so you get a new controlled move to a new endpoint. you can't ever have a jump in position, you must change the endpoints of subsequent moves. kins know *nothing* about moves.
[13:21:34] <cradek> this is why all offsets etc are in the interp, the only place they can currently be before moves are generated. if you're at +1000,0 and you rotate the coordinate system, the machine must not move, you just get a different current point and subsequent moves make sense in the new system.
[13:28:19] <cradek> so if you have offsets that you want to change, you have to be able to delay finalizing the endpoint of the move (and everything that depends on it: feed calculation, soft limit check, crc) until after you know that offset.
[13:28:34] <cradek> I think this answers both your questions
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[15:23:18] <cradek> spelling this out makes me realize something I didn't quite before: if you change tool offset while paused, it's the recovery move that has the new endpoint, and the paused move needs to be translated so it finishes at the new location
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[16:33:55] <mhaberler> cradek: thanks - so it's a 'case of too late binding' . I guess you're assuming vtp here, tool offset applied before move gets queued in the tp?
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[16:35:13] <cradek> it seems like the tlo shouldn't be on the vpt at all - so you apply it as you read the vpt. if you change it while paused, you just have to rewrite (translate) the paused move and the recovery move
[16:35:43] <cradek> I'm not sure if I answered your question
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[16:36:10] <cradek> mhaberler_: ^
[16:38:18] <mhaberler_> so the next motion already has the changed offset applied when it hits the tp
[16:38:19] <mhaberler_> interesting motion actually gets the current tooloffset from upstream, but obviously only as a HAL pin driver, and the motion targets already have it applied
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[16:39:10] <mhaberler> oh, right. it is strictly local to vpt since tooltable is too.
[16:39:57] <mhaberler> so no chance of getting out of sync. I like that aspect
[16:41:14] <mhaberler> when things suddenly become simple, thats a sign they happen in the right place
[16:43:57] <cradek> I'm sad that we will apparently lose the ability to detect soft limit violations at readahead time
[16:45:03] <cradek> that's the only big drawback I see of the new design
[16:45:12] <mhaberler> would it make sense to assume an upper boundary on tool offsets and just work with these bounds? gets false negatives though
[16:46:13] <cradek> tool offsets can vary widely depending on operator procedure
[16:46:31] <cradek> they might tend to be small and centered around zero, or they might be all hugely positive or hugely negative
[16:48:10] <cradek> if we could get it right assuming the tools don't change after interpret time (and approximately right if they don't change much) that is probably adequate
[16:48:47] <cradek> we will still have to abort the move if we find it impossible after it finalizes
[16:49:51] <mhaberler> that's what I just was thinking; assume tt offsets commited, maybe add some user defined leeway for safety, and be done with it - much better than no readaheaddetection at all
[16:50:51] <cradek> to do the same for crc we'd need to do it in two places :-/
[16:50:57] <mhaberler> uh
[16:51:22] <cradek> it's exactly the same problem
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[16:54:22] <mhaberler> practically, the radius changes will be either nonexistent, or known in range, so again user could prime the hit detection with a max change (actually maybe a percentage… if I change a tool during pause, assume radius doesnt vary more than -n/+m %
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[16:55:43] <cradek> the change would likely be between nominal and resharpened sizes and/or just tweaked for wear
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[16:56:13] <cradek> it's true you could do the initial crc for testing/discarding based on some maximum tweak value
[16:56:26] <mhaberler> so actually less
[16:56:36] <cradek> less?
[16:56:48] <mhaberler> I think in both cases we should start with some assumed heuristics with the provision for user to prime it
[16:57:11] <mhaberler> tool radius reduced by wear/sharpening
[16:57:15] <cradek> but do you see any way to avoid doing the crc twice, discarding it the first time?
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[16:57:47] <cradek> to get the soft limits and path geometry checks
[16:58:03] <cradek> we wouldn't have to, but it's more sacrifice if we don't
[16:58:25] <cradek> bbl
[16:58:32] <mhaberler> no, because the offset curve *shape* changes with tooldia, not just some offset
[16:58:32] <mhaberler> cu
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[17:20:18] <mhaberler> note that limit checks can be done statically within a vpt sequence - unless a tlo changes. again, from that point, to end of tape, it can be done ahead; but that means the locus of check moves from readahead to vpt sequence. It can even be async to the rt execution, like a checker thread which re-investigates a part of the vpt after a tlo change. 'Readahed' might be the wrong place to do limit checking. Just like it is f
[17:20:19] <mhaberler> offset path computation for crc.
[17:21:06] <mhaberler> while she is at it, she could re-do crc curves as well ;)
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[17:21:42] <mhaberler> the only requirement is that the checker may not fall behind the executor
[17:22:32] <mhaberler> and btw with the checker also does the preview - so you get corrected preview after a toooldia change
[17:23:20] <mhaberler> it is in effect speculative execution, which needs to rewind/replay in case of change. Does this sound any different from Axis preview?
[17:26:21] <mhaberler> let me reword that. The checker is in fact the generator for a committed path (one with to applied, ad crc with a given tooldia).
[17:26:29] <mhaberler> tlo applied
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[17:28:22] <mhaberler> so if tlo or tooldia changes - recompute path from there. The result of the checker is the rt execution recipe, and the display list for the UI preview. Their only conceptual difference is: the display list appears immediately, the motion executor does it piecemeal.
[17:29:45] <mhaberler> any properties like machine boundaries are checked against the committed path; if a part of the committed path is thrown awaye due to a tlo/dia change, check is re-run from there.
[17:31:22] <mhaberler> so, done in the right place checks on boundaries could still be pre-execution time AND exact
[17:34:25] <mhaberler> one might want to limit the length of the path computation for practical considerations
[17:35:13] <mhaberler> btw if the structure holding the path is a circular buffer with some lookback you get stepback here for free
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[18:02:42] <mhaberler> modulo blending, that is
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[22:23:14] <alex_joni> mhaberler: hi, any progress?
[22:23:28] <mhaberler> hi
[22:23:36] <mhaberler> on which issue?
[22:24:02] <alex_joni> jog while paused and the needed rewrite
[22:24:07] <alex_joni> moving offsets to motion
[22:24:44] <mhaberler> well I had a very fruitful exchange with Chris and a sketch is emerging
[22:24:51] <alex_joni> cool
[22:25:25] <mhaberler> it's in the irc log since we talked
[22:25:33] <alex_joni> yup, I read that
[22:25:37] <mhaberler> aja
[22:27:33] <andypugh> Hmm, something that one (and only one) user has asked for (for his inverted Tetrapod theatrical special effect, so rather a corner-case) is a way to alter accelleration on the fly...
[22:28:03] <alex_joni> andypugh: only with limit3's on each joint and large ferrors ;)
[22:28:09] <andypugh> I guess the problem with that is that you can reduce the accelleration so that the axis can't stop...
[22:28:14] <mhaberler> I think it will be a significant simplification; eg preview and progress display directly from path (pre) computation and NOT in the UI - meaning a single interpreter, less consistemcy problems etc
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