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[00:28:50] <skunkworks__> wierd
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[00:37:43] <cradek> are we finally going to learn whether pcw is robot or human!?
[00:40:02] <skunkworks__> andy will probably have to sign a non-disclosure agreement
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[01:10:22] <CIA-6> 03tissf 07v2.5_branch * r43a51c358e63 10/docs/ (html/gcode_fr.html src/gcode/m-code_fr.txt): French docs: update
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[12:16:27] <CIA-6> 03jthornton 07v2.5_branch * r1867eaaf96a9 10/docs/src/gcode/ (overview.txt overview_de.txt overview_es.txt overview_pl.txt): Docs: add info about block delete
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[14:38:29] <skunkworks> mozmck:
http://cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc_formerly_emc2/148302-how_get_ubob_working_emc2.html
[14:39:14] <skunkworks> That is so weird me asking you about the hardware yesterday - and someone posting a question... I swear we make our own reality..
[14:40:26] <mozmck> Yeah. the LCTHC does not need the UBOB and will work with anything.
[14:41:31] <mozmck> I have the UBOB working with EMC, and Tom says he wants to support linuxcnc, but is still worried about it.
[14:41:56] <skunkworks> mozmck: does that hardware cut the effecting step rate in half for mach and linuxcnc?
[14:42:06] <mozmck> So I need to ask him about this again.
[14:42:10] <skunkworks> heh
[14:42:32] <skunkworks> with what I read about mach - I would be worried about them... ;)
[14:43:14] <mozmck> It cuts the the response rate of the inputs in half, and the relay outputs are much slower. The Step/Dir rates are unaffected.
[14:44:00] <skunkworks> ah - ok
[14:44:51] <mozmck> Me too. Tom is partly worried about supporting customers using LinuxCNC - which I can understand partly. A lot of our users can barely turn a PC on and he'll spend hours helping them understand some pretty simple stuff.
[14:46:34] <cradek> is he worried that linuxcnc users will require even more support than that, or is he reluctant to learn two systems?
[14:46:37] <skunkworks> He should talk to the guy that makes the fireball
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fireballcnc/?yguid=148844392
[14:46:51] <skunkworks> he rather supports linuxcnc over mach
[14:47:33] <cradek> (I think the first worry is probably unfounded, but I definitely sympathize with the second worry)
[14:48:33] <mozmck> There's a lack of time to start with, but I think he's thinking that if some of the people that have this much trouble with Mach3 and windows try to jump in to LinuxCNC it will be worse. Not that current LinuxCNC users will require more support.
[14:48:47] <skunkworks> cradek: ^ sorry about that sentence...
[14:48:55] <skunkworks> ;)
[14:49:12] <mozmck> I think he's coughing blood right now...
[14:49:35] <cradek> eek
[14:49:46] <skunkworks> I showed that comic to my wife - she got a kick out of it. She feels your pain.
[14:50:17] <cradek> oh I get it. I thought you were saying your boss was sick.
[14:50:26] <cradek> seems I'm slow at 8:50
[14:50:34] <mozmck> haha! Need more coffee!
[14:53:53] <mozmck> Back to shooting trouble... I mean troubleshooting.
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[15:15:10] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fireballcnc/message/8152
[15:16:43] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fireballcnc/message/7609
[15:17:01] <cradek> skunkworks: it won't let me see those :-/
[15:17:02] <skunkworks> I am pretty sure his is on the mailing list als.
[15:17:10] <skunkworks> aww - crap. sorry
[15:17:52] <skunkworks> I hate groups that don't allow you to at least browse without joining
[15:19:40] <jthornton> as the lovely yeast spins merrily in the flask on the stir plate I go to the shop to make some stand offs
[15:19:40] <cradek> wow, still can't see those after I figured out a yahoo login
[15:20:11] <cradek> that's a very silly setting IMO
[15:20:40] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.com/xJyNqLHF
[15:21:04] <skunkworks> The two posts... Len I think is on the mailing list also..
[15:22:27] <cradek> thanks for sharing :-)
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[15:59:09] <mozmck> thanks skunkworks :)
[16:19:57] <mhaberler> cradek: what are you using for git access control on git.linuxcnc.org? just curious.. I switched from gitosis to gitolite yesterday
[16:21:53] <cradek> I don't know what either of those mean. we use ssh.
[16:22:47] <mhaberler> so you create unix-level accounts for committers?
[16:22:51] <cradek> yes
[16:23:20] <mhaberler> aja. ssh or not isnt the question, I use that as well
[16:24:57] <mhaberler> with gitolite all pushes go through a single account (git) and there are no unix accounts per committer; also, it has branch-level permissions.
[16:25:27] <cradek> ah, we don't need that kind of thing
[16:25:59] <cradek> how do you handle ssh keys per user?
[16:26:35] <CIA-6> 03mhaberler 07master * rbcafcabc7d8e 10/configs/sim/remap/python-stdglue/stdglue.py: interp/remap/handlers/remapped M61: assure both tool and pocket number are set
[16:27:20] <mhaberler> you have a management repo; you add pubkeys locally to it, put the user on a group list and push, done
[16:27:40] <cradek> ah, weird
[16:27:57] <cradek> sounds kind of like a reimplementation of everything unix already gives you
[16:50:59] <jepler> I've never used it, but there are a number of things that are nice about it. First, it works for people with hosting accounts that only give a single unix user. Second, it provides a degree of automated administration. Third, since everything happens with one unix id you never have to get permissions right on the repository.
[16:51:28] <jepler> branch-level permissions aren't particularly relevant to our project but I can see where people would like that.
[16:51:57] <cradek> I agree it sounds useful if you're making do with one account
[16:52:52] <mhaberler> jepler: thanks for fixing that python/emccanon thing. how come?
[16:52:59] <jepler> how comie .. what?
[16:53:20] <mhaberler> how did you find it, were you trying things out?
[16:54:20] <jepler> I saw the #pragma in the context of seb's commit 6f336b26 and that made me look closer
[16:54:31] <mhaberler> aja
[16:54:46] <jepler> and I know about that specific problem and the solution
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[17:00:36] <jepler> by the way, do you know if it indicates a problem that tests/remap/fail/proglog doesn't have rs274 exit with nonzero status?
[17:00:43] <jepler> the comment indicates that you expected it to..
[17:01:12] <mhaberler> learned about ! in shell scripts, thanks;)
[17:01:35] <mhaberler> libmodbus-3: lucid build ok, hardy - too old autoconf. What's the timeframe for dropping hardy from the supported platforms list?
[17:01:39] <jepler> also the fail/args.* tests are exiting with success but the way the test is written indicates that you expected this
[17:02:02] <mhaberler> right, I'll look into those
[17:02:04] <jepler> cradek: are we going to ship 2.5 for hardy?
[17:02:37] <mhaberler> glade/gladevcp will be a pita on hardy
[17:02:41] <cradek> I think it works?
[17:02:43] <cradek> no?
[17:03:19] <mhaberler> if you edit a panel on lucid, store in libglade format, and move to hardy you can display it. you cant edit on hardy
[17:03:20] <cradek> I still frequently see recommendations to run our hardy because its non-smp kernel works better
[17:03:38] <cradek> (on particular hardware, I mean)
[17:04:03] <mhaberler> I'm not suggesting anything, I would like to know. I guess 2.6 will drop hardy?
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[17:05:19] <jepler> personally, post-2.5 I see "it doesn't work with hardy" as an invalid reason not to make an otherwise well-motivated change
[17:05:56] <mhaberler> how do I parse this sentence?
[17:06:17] <jepler> delicately.
[17:06:52] <jepler> let me make a concrete example
[17:07:00] <jepler> hardy has python 2.5, lucid has python 2.6
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[17:07:19] <jepler> a developer offers to contribute a new feature, but his implementation requires python2.6 features
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[17:07:44] <jepler> I do not believe that "this won't work on hardy, which only has python 2.5" is a good reason to not accept his contribution into the master branch
[17:08:50] <cradek> if I rephrase positively I get "we should allow breaking hardy, if needed, after 2.5" - is that right?
[17:08:53] <mhaberler> ok, I summarize: master is safe from attempts to build supported packages for hardy. y/n
[17:09:26] <jepler> cradek: if needed
[17:09:53] <cradek> I agree with that
[17:11:27] <jepler> but there needs to be a good reason. We shouldn't make this change the very first hardy-breaking change: +if (distro-is-hardy) ; then AC_ERROR([for no good reason, you can't build on hardy anymore]); fi
[17:12:00] <jepler> and if somebody shows up to champion hardy-era ubuntu we should work with them
[17:12:02] <mhaberler> ok, I dont have too because of this modbus thingie; we can keep the v2 modbus lib/header around for the gs2_vfd but then I observe lots several people base their vfd code on my vfs11-vfd, and I rather clean up before adding that to master (read as: add the libmodbus-v3 version). But there is no need to build that driver on hardy - I'd make it conditional
[17:13:10] <jepler> in another 5 or 6 years we'll have to talk about gtk2 vs gtk3 as well
[17:13:54] <mhaberler> that would mean: hardy: vfs11-vfd not built; lucid: builds but needs the libmodbus3-dev package which I built; precise: buids with an extrac standard builddep package
[17:15:48] <mhaberler> re: gtk.. we need to talk dropping tkinter first;)
[17:16:07] <jepler> oh if only
[17:16:19] <jepler> back when I was young and strong I contemplated such a thing
[17:17:17] <jepler> anyway, your plan sounds fine to me. detecting the unavailability of libmodbus-v3 in configure and disabling it sounds like a good compromise that hurts any trailing-edge users as little as possible.
[17:17:32] <mhaberler> ok
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[17:38:04] <mhaberler> one idiot question to go: the buildbot only builds master tip, right?
[17:38:49] <cradek> see
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[17:39:14] <mhaberler> well yes. I see only master commits there, but I might overlooking something
[17:39:47] <mhaberler> oops, disregard. master and v2.5_branch
[17:40:48] <cradek> and v2.4_branch
[17:40:58] <cradek> for 5 platforms
[17:41:36] <mhaberler> ok, convinced.
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[18:32:16] <CIA-6> 03tissf 07v2.5_branch * r52a0fdb6f4d1 10/docs/src/gcode/overview_fr.txt: French docs: update
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[21:37:52] <CIA-6> 03jthornton 07v2.5_branch * rc061f88b2f88 10/docs/src/ (index.tmpl index_de.tmpl index_es.tmpl index_pl.tmpl): Docs: fix typo
[21:39:17] <GoSebGo> There's another typo in that diff, jthornton ;-)
[21:40:10] <jthornton> crap
[21:41:13] <jthornton> LOL I see it now
[21:41:14] <cradek> Stepper Diagonalistics
[21:41:24] <cradek> Stepper Digitastics
[21:41:34] <jthornton> I was too focused on the link
[21:41:47] <cradek> well that's the one that has to be right!
[21:42:34] <GoSebGo> Stepper durrgonistics
[21:43:29] <jthornton> when make is done I'll push the second part of the typo fix
[21:43:48] <GoSebGo> Thanks :-)
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[22:16:54] <mozmck> I like Digitastics!
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[22:32:05] <JT-Shop> LOL
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[22:32:52] <archivist> Stepper Digitalis
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[23:07:57] <jthornton> | ps2pdf - ../docs/LinuxCNC_Manual_Pages.pdf
[23:07:59] <jthornton> tbl:fatal error: can't open `man1/emc.1': No such file or directory
[23:08:52] <CIA-6> 03jthornton 07v2.5_branch * r5c6f1ec6ff83 10/docs/src/ (index.tmpl index_de.tmpl index_es.tmpl index_pl.tmpl): Docs: fix second half of the spello
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[23:15:55] <jthornton> should the following line in the Submakefile
[23:15:56] <jthornton> PDF_MAN_ORDER := man1/emc.1 $(filter-out %/emc.1, $(filter man1/%, $(MAN_SRCS_NOSO))) \
[23:16:00] <jthornton> be changed to
[23:16:12] <jthornton> PDF_MAN_ORDER := man1/linuxcnc.1 $(filter-out %/linuxcnc.1, $(filter man1/%, $(MAN_SRCS_NOSO))) \
[23:16:35] <jthornton> I see one error that seems to be related to this after a make clean
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