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[00:00:17] <andypugh> Yes, that sounds right. Can you recall the actual command-line required?
[00:00:35] <andypugh> I tend to just use rtapi_print_msg and delete when done :-)
[00:00:48] <andypugh> Well, when I remember
[00:02:15] <andypugh> emcPT_: However, changing the way the tool table works goes quite deep. Finding how deep was what prompted me to suggest using a tool modulo number approach to determine the toolholder slot number.
[00:02:49] <emcPT_> yes I know.
[00:03:15] <SWPadnos> tool table is quite different from tool changer
[00:03:22] <emcPT_> It goes throw a maze.
[00:03:51] <emcPT_> We are talking about the toolchanger, not the tanble
[00:03:54] <emcPT_> table
[00:04:28] <SWPadnos> the way the LinuxCNC task/IO manager does a tool change is that it sets a tool-prepare (output) HAL pin, waits for tool-prepared (input) to go true, then does the same thing with the tool-change / tool-changed
[00:04:56] <SWPadnos> the actual mechanism of changing tools needs to be handled externally, and is dependent on the configuration of the hardware
[00:05:32] <SWPadnos> I think maybe something was added to allow for rack toolchangers, but I don't know if it's in the released version (or if I'm just wrong about that)
[00:06:33] <emcPT_> SWPadnos: I understand the basic idea. I am not running a machine yet. What happens is that currently there are several problems that I cannot use linuxcnc.
[00:06:55] <emcPT_> I am using a lathe
[00:06:56] <SWPadnos> ok
[00:07:08] <emcPT_> and toolchange for a lathe is not "standard"
[00:07:20] <emcPT_> as others commercial lathes
[00:09:15] <emcPT_> syntax for toolchange and offset handling is not the same and makes quite difficult to work out. Mr Andy already changed some ideas with me, but at the end - linuxcnc - is currently not able to work for me
[00:09:53] <JT-Shop> GoSebGo: that link does not work for me it needs a password
[00:10:36] <SWPadnos> emcPT_, so you need a different G-code to change tools or something?
[00:11:26] <andypugh> SWPadnos: He has up to 4 different tools per toolchanger "slot"
[00:11:45] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[00:11:53] <andypugh> (also, it's a rear-toolpost, so the Axis Preview looks wrong)
[00:12:07] <SWPadnos> there's an option for that, I think
[00:12:21] <emcPT_> Does not work correctly
[00:12:33] <SWPadnos> you can set the display coordinate order, and I think if you use a "-X" or something, that inverts that axis
[00:12:41] <SWPadnos> ok, using the display thing I mentioned?
[00:12:48] <emcPT_> yes
[00:12:52] <emcPT_> the axis invert
[00:12:57] <SWPadnos> ok, have you filed a bug report? :)
[00:13:04] <emcPT_> but the tools do not display
[00:13:26] <andypugh> There is also a .axisrc patch which does much the same thing, with the same problem.
[00:14:18] <SWPadnos> ah, OK. Off the cuff, I'd say that the viewport position is "behind" the polygons for the tool, so it doesn't show up
[00:14:24] <SWPadnos> or something silly like that
[00:14:50] <SWPadnos> (but since I didn't write that, and really haven't looked at the code either, I have a 99.7% chance of being wrong)
[00:15:09] <emcPT_> and the tools orientation are also incorrect. At the end it seams that there are a few lathe users with lots of tooling. Or if they are they use "work arounds" to get things going.
[00:16:05] <SWPadnos> I haven't been keeping up with the lists lately. Have you mentioned this problem on the user or developer list?
[00:17:45] <emcPT_> I am recently new to this. The list? this channel?
[00:19:25] <andypugh> There is a mailng list
[00:19:33] <SWPadnos> no, we have a couple of email lists with much wider readership than this IRC channel
[00:20:20] <SWPadnos> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[00:20:36] <SWPadnos> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
[00:20:42] <andypugh> However, I do think that it makes sense to leave LinuxCNC as it is, and make sorting out which slot it is in into a toolchanger problem.
[00:20:50] <emcPT_> Ok. I will look for it and try to make a readable and detailed report.
[00:20:57] <SWPadnos> cool, thanks
[00:21:18] <SWPadnos> what does the G-code look like to select different tools, especially when there are several in the same slot?
[00:21:37] <emcPT_> T0306
[00:22:02] <emcPT_> calls slot 3, with the offsets and tip direction of the entry 6
[00:22:08] <emcPT_> for example
[00:22:09] <andypugh> emcPT_: Another idea I just had, you could use 3/4 digits for tool numbers, where the "hundreds" is slot number and the rest is tool number. When you move a tool to a new slot you just need to edit the first two digits.
[00:23:08] <SWPadnos> so if you did T0307, would that use the same physical tool as T0306, but different offsets/angles?
[00:23:20] <SWPadnos> or is it a different physical tool
[00:23:21] <emcPT_> it should be the 2 initial numbers for slot number and the remaining for offset. This would be more correct as there should not be a lathe with more than 12 slots
[00:23:28] <emcPT_> 99 slots I mean
[00:23:38] <andypugh> So, say you have tool 2 in slot 10, that has 1002 in the "Tool" column. If you move that same tool to slot 8, then you simply edit the tool table so that it has 0802 in the tool table. Of course, the G-code has to match.
[00:24:17] <andypugh> SWPadnos: It's typically a different insert mounted on the same shank.
[00:25:34] <andypugh> Really the "Slot Number" in the Tool table should say where the tool is, but actually it just says where in the tool array you want to load it, which isn't exactly the same thing.
[00:25:41] <emcPT_> How do you enter for example emcPT_: or SWPadnos: ? you write normally? or have a faster way?
[00:25:50] <andypugh> (Sorry, Pocket number, I mean)
[00:26:00] <SWPadnos> I type a few characters and hit <TAB>
[00:26:02] <andypugh> I type em<tab>
[00:26:09] <SWPadnos> I'm using Chatzilla, which does tab-completeion
[00:26:12] <SWPadnos> completion
[00:26:22] <andypugh> Does it do spelling too ;-)
[00:26:30] <SWPadnos> nae :)
[00:26:42] <emcPT_> SWPadnos, using xchat also works
[00:26:49] <SWPadnos> ok
[00:26:54] <SWPadnos> I expect most clients do work that way
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[00:28:31] <emcPT_> I did not used irc for more than 10 years. If JT-Shop saw this he would write something for me to go away. But returning to the issue. What I need is simply what all lathes changers use. This is quite normal to have.
[00:28:34] <andypugh> Actually, emcPT_ If you are happy to change the source code, you could build-in what I suggested.
[00:29:22] <andypugh> You could make it so that T10 searched the tool table for a tool number that _ended_ in 10, then the G-code doesn't need to remember where the tool is.
[00:29:45] <emcPT_> SWPadnos, so if you did T0307, would that use the same physical tool as T0306, but different offsets/angles? No I would use the same slot, with tool that I call 07 instead the tool that I call 06
[00:29:58] <emcPT_> andypugh, Yes that would work
[00:30:38] <andypugh> So, T10 finds tool (for example) 0610, sends "06" out on the tool-prepare pin to the toolchanger, and loads the offsets for Tool 0610 from the table.
[00:31:34] <SWPadnos> are both tools physically loaded in the machine at the same time?
[00:31:39] <rob_h> my crummy Simens 810T used Txx (not M6 mind u) and D values .. could gang on that fine...so to say all use 4digits is abit harsh ;)
[00:31:43] <SWPadnos> in the changer that is
[00:32:07] <andypugh> That isn't too big a change, and still leaves you with 56 tools available. (the 56-tool limit is from how big a toool-table line is, and how big an NML message can be. Make the tool-table bigger, and there will be problems
[00:32:59] <SWPadnos> can't you now use any tool/slot number you want, as long as you don't have too many in the table?
[00:33:11] <andypugh> Alternatively, just for your own use, you could use the Y, A, B, C or whatever column to say _where_ the tool is living, and send that value out on the tool-change pins.
[00:33:12] <emcPT_> But it is also possible to have T0610 or T0710. This is the same cutting tip on different slots. Not sure if it would work
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[00:33:55] <andypugh> SWPadnos: Yes, but you can't have more than one tool sharing a "pocket" number.
[00:34:17] <andypugh> And, also, it is the "Tool" number which is sent out to the toolchanger
[00:34:20] <SWPadnos> right
[00:34:39] <SWPadnos> which can then do whatever it wants with it ...
[00:34:55] <andypugh> This is because the "Pocket" column just tells LinuxCNC which element of an array to load the tool data into.
[00:35:03] <emcPT_> SWPadnos, I have 12 slots, normally all loaded. Each slot have normally 2 offsets. For example one tool for inside machining and other for outside.
[00:35:04] <SWPadnos> including connecting to a userspace program which reads a file and has a complex mapping between codes and pockets ...
[00:35:29] <SWPadnos> emcPT_, ok, thanks. now I see.
[00:35:51] <SWPadnos> same tool, different usage means different effective offsets
[00:36:28] <andypugh> SWPadnos: Aye that is what I am suggesting, a toolchanger code which sees tool number 1152 and goes "Aha! so that will be carousel position 11 then"
[00:37:11] <SWPadnos> figuring out the right tool is the easy part, it's getting the correct offsets into the interpreter (presumably without changing the G-code) that's hard
[00:37:37] <andypugh> However, that then means that the H-code has to change every time a tool moves to a different pocket, hence the idea to modify the code instead.
[00:37:55] <andypugh> (Not H-code, G-code).
[00:38:26] <andypugh> ie, the program needs to have the tool numbers updated if they move, and that seems wrong.
[00:39:04] <emcPT_> so I will try the old printf"" to see what can I do
[00:40:16] <andypugh> emcPT_: Actually, as you don't care about breaking LinuxCNC for mills and random toolchangers, you can use the pocket number in the Tool table the way you would expect to. It's only not breaking it for everyone else that makes it difficult. :-)
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[00:41:38] <emcPT_> yes, but if I can do something (5% change) it would be better to leave for others
[00:41:57] <andypugh> Ah, wait, no you can't. Sorry. The whole problem is that "Pocket" isn't in the tool data array.
[00:44:53] <SWPadnos> gotta run guys. see you later
[00:44:57] <emcPT_> rob_h, on the siemens is it Txx Dyy ?
[00:45:00] <SWPadnos> andypugh, have fun sailing
[00:45:08] <SWPadnos> (that is you, right?)
[00:45:10] <emcPT_> Thank you for your time SWPadnos
[00:45:21] <SWPadnos> sure. good luck with it
[00:45:56] <jthornton> GoSebGo: yep I found my typo
[00:45:58] <rob_h> yea emcPT_ control had 99 D values i think rember right
[00:46:12] <andypugh> SWPadnos: Yes, that's me. And I just remebered I have a taxi coming in 5 hours to take me to the Airport (for a trip to Finland, not for the sailing yet)
[00:46:33] <rob_h> when u did touch off u would change to the D page u wanted and do all touching off to store it
[00:46:39] <andypugh> Night all
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[00:46:58] <jthornton> good night Andy
[00:46:58] <rob_h> its not a very nice control to use tho at all.. very ugly R varables every where and B as radius...
[00:47:33] * jthornton heads back out to the shop while make does its thing
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[00:48:35] <tissf> hi all
[00:49:13] <emcPT_> rob_h, at the end TxxDyy is the same than Txxyy. Way to different than the current linuxcnc implementation.
[00:49:41] <JT-Shop> hi Francis
[00:49:53] <tissf> hi John
[00:50:03] <rob_h> erm same abit as doing Txx M6 , G43 Hxx
[00:50:50] <tissf> in your last commit, you write suttle not shutlle in submakefile :)
[00:51:18] <emcPT_> but then you cannot have two tips different offsets on the same slot
[00:51:47] <rob_h> emcPT_, here a sample program from it..
http://pastebin.com/EhtbfnTu
[00:52:00] <JT-Shop> yea, fixing that now lol
[00:52:20] <JT-Shop> close they both start with s
[00:52:57] <JT-Shop> realized at the last moment that it is not shuttle express but shuttlexpress
[00:53:04] <rob_h> sleeep time here..
[00:53:15] <emcPT_> here also. Thank you Mr Rob
[00:53:37] <tissf> here, the html no longer compiles right now!
[00:53:49] <JT-Shop> ouch
[00:54:15] <tissf> just ERROR 2
[00:54:21] <tissf> ?
[00:54:27] <tissf> :(
[00:54:29] <JT-Shop> changed the file name but forgot the submakefile
[00:54:42] <JT-Shop> after my commit?
[00:55:01] <cradek> can someone tell me the functional difference between Txxyy and TxxM6G43Hyy
[00:55:24] <cradek> I do not see that they work differently
[00:56:45] <tissf> I do not believe, but after I created hal/haltcl_fr.txt
[00:57:12] * JT-Shop goes back down to the beer cave to see how make is coming along
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[00:58:58] <tissf> can you do a make docs to see?
[00:59:48] <jthornton> just fixed the suttle part of the typo and running make again
[01:02:56] <tissf> it's probably the problem but I prefer that you fixes for not git conflict
[01:03:37] <jthornton> just waiting on make now before I push
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[01:04:52] <tissf> ok
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[01:06:25] <tissf> is there a command to check all links in a series of files?
[01:07:22] <jthornton> I just use make >> /home/john/Desktop/make.txt 2>&1 then search the make.txt for "error"
[01:09:03] <tissf> I mean the links of the form [[sub: link]]
[01:09:27] <jthornton> they will show up as an error... in the make.txt file
[01:09:53] <jthornton> something like error no link to something or other
[01:10:05] <jthornton> I forget the exact syntax
[01:10:20] <skunkworks> cradek: I don't think anyone is left
[01:10:50] <tissf> ok
[01:12:26] <jthornton> the first thing I do is go to the end of the file and look for "You now need to run 'sudo make setuid' in order to run in place."
[01:12:39] <CIA-96> 03jthornton 07v2.5_branch * r1cea8d5328e0 10/docs/src/Submakefile: Docs: fix typo
[01:12:55] <jthornton> then I search for error and warning
[01:13:07] <jthornton> usually after a make clean
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[01:13:33] <tissf> same here
[01:14:07] <tissf> thanks for the fix John
[01:14:13] <jthornton> ok, make works for me now I fixed my typo
[01:14:56] <jthornton> sorry about that, must have got in a hurry to go and play with the other children
[01:15:18] <tissf> bed time here 2:15PM :)
[01:15:30] <jthornton> ok, goodnight Francis
[01:15:40] <tissf> I hate shuttle-express :-))
[01:16:02] <tissf> goodnight too John
[01:16:21] <jthornton> I'm unbiased about it as I don't know what it is
[01:24:14] <tissf> works thanks
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[01:24:33] <jthornton> your welcome
[01:25:54] <jthornton> ouch
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb seems to be down
[01:26:25] <jthornton> or rather this one
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=summary
[01:34:40] <CIA-96> 03tissf 07v2.5_branch * rd549ecd3c665 10/docs/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): French docs: add haltcl
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[02:18:19] <jepler> jthornton: wfm
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[02:31:54] <jepler> cradek: ttt: please pull from git://git.unpythonic.net/truetype-tracer.git branch otf-distance-fix
[02:32:13] <jepler> cradek: I had the sign of some of the offsets wrong :-/
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[03:10:30] <seb_kuzminsky> thanks jthornton
[03:13:00] <cradek> jepler: thanks!
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[05:31:49] <CIA-96> 03seb 07master * rdd01abbd088b 10/ (72 files in 20 dirs): Merge remote branch 'origin/v2.5_branch'
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[12:47:05] <CIA-96> 03jthornton 07v2.5_branch * r868cbcc1e7a6 10/docs/src/code/NML_Messages.txt: Docs: fix markup error
[12:47:07] <CIA-96> 03jthornton 07v2.5_branch * r42a63008e87d 10/docs/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Docs: fix link
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[13:01:34] <CIA-96> 03jthornton 07v2.5_branch * r879cdf7930ec 10/docs/src/index_es.tmpl: Docs: translate html link title
[13:01:35] <CIA-96> 03jthornton 07v2.5_branch * r577bf1f86dea 10/docs/src/common/ (Getting_EMC_es.txt System_Requirements_es.txt): Docs: for some reason when I applied the patch the txt files became executable
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[13:50:33] <JT-Shop> is
http://linuxcnc.org/ down?
[13:59:37] <alex_joni> JT-Shop: not for me
[14:00:09] <alex_joni> linuxcnc.org, www.linuxcnc.org and wiki.linuxcnc.org all seem to be working ok
[14:01:31] <JT-Shop> hmmm
[14:01:53] <JT-Shop> working for me too now
[14:02:12] <JT-Shop> must have been a glitch at the isp or something
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[14:51:59] <seb_kuzminsky> cmorley: the default watchdog timeout in pncconf is wrong
[14:52:15] <seb_kuzminsky> cmorley: it's 1007000 ns, it should be 5000000
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[15:02:17] <jepler> "g18.1 g2 r1 f1" will make the interpreter give a 'bug' error message
[15:02:49] <jepler> I guess I'm probably smart enough to fix that (make it a different error message than "bug ..."
[15:02:53] <jepler> )
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[15:05:37] <jthornton> jepler: how did the brewing come out?
[15:06:08] <jepler> jthornton: fermentation hasn't started, so I'm scratching my head and will head to the local brew shop for some fresh yeast when they open (in an hour, I think)
[15:07:20] <jthornton> did you pitch liquid yeast straight from the container?
[15:07:40] <jepler> I used a dry yeast and (per the kit directions) sprinkled it directly on top of the cooled wort.
[15:07:45] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: did you aerate the wort before pitching?
[15:08:29] <seb_kuzminsky> i always dissolve the yeast in some warm water. i make the yeast soup at the start and carry it around in a little bottle in my pants pocket while brewing
[15:08:30] <jthornton> dry yeast is a pretty hardy bugger, might take a day to get going
[15:09:06] <jepler> jthornton: I pitched at about 5PM on saturday, shouldn't it be going by 40 hours later?
[15:09:23] <jthornton> yea, you should see some activity by now
[15:09:38] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: carrying it in your pants pocket sounds like taking things a bit far
[15:10:02] <seb_kuzminsky> it warms it up and activates it
[15:10:04] <seb_kuzminsky> works great
[15:10:10] <jthornton> I put mine on a homemade stir plate and get the little buggers up and dancing
[15:10:22] <jepler> yeah but the "are you happy to see me" jokes are writing themselves in my head right now
[15:10:38] <jthornton> lol
[15:11:36] <jthornton> I use this for my dry wine yeast
http://gnipsel.com/wine/yeast-starter.html
[15:12:17] <jthornton> could skip the orange juice for beer
[15:13:47] <jthornton> well I better get some work done...
[15:14:05] <jepler> I'll keep you guys posted. thanks for the input.
[15:18:37] <seb_kuzminsky> awallin: have you seen this:
http://openscam.com/
[15:19:51] <CIA-96> 03jepler 07v2.5_branch * r9611aea21d11 10/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: Don't issue a 'Bug' diagnostic for arcs in UVW planes
[15:21:49] * JT-Shop wonders why an open source software would use high pressure sales techniques like this "Programming a CNC with out a simulator is cutting with out measuring; it's both dangerous and expensive."
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[15:33:39] <jepler> so I shouldn't change our front page to say "use linuxcnc or this bag of kittens is going into the river"?
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[15:43:05] <JT-Shop> and puppies too
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[16:16:43] <awallin> seb_kuzminsky: yes, the author of openscam left a note on my blog just 1-2 days ago. really nice progress with cutsim!
[16:19:28] <GoSebGo> Neat, how does it differ from your work?
[16:31:52] <awallin> It's similar-ish. But I understood from Joseph that he combines the tool motions into one big "sweep" and the calculates the final stock remaining from that.
[16:32:22] <awallin> I didn't try openscam yet, I think it may show only the final stock shape, not intermediates.
[16:32:49] <awallin> It would be cool to either integrate my or Josephs openscam work with linuxcnc one day..
[16:33:44] <archivist> stock and clamping part of gcode to go with it :)
[16:35:46] <jepler> jthornton or seb_kuzminsky: when I re-pitch, should I re-aerate?
[16:36:49] <GoSebGo> awallin: doesnt cutsim go more with cam than with machine control?
[16:37:07] <GoSebGo> jepler: i would - can't hurt
[16:38:37] <archivist> cutsim goes with the machine so you know it is possible on that machine
[16:39:13] <awallin> GoSebGo: maybe. but I'm not going to write a g-code parser any time soon. might be useful both on the machine-controller and in the CAM-office..
[16:39:47] <GoSebGo> Makes sense
[16:40:24] <GoSebGo> I use the cut preview in axis often on my machine, i guess cutsim is similar
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[16:52:18] * skunkworks is just happy to have the preview - it has saved lots of stupid mistakes
[17:02:19] <GoSebGo> Yep, nothing like jogging around beforehand and seeing if you're going to hit anything
[17:52:34] <JT-Shop> jepler: yes, a little aeration will help
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[18:25:03] <CIA-96> 03jepler 07v2.5_branch * r221fcb9fad0e 10/lib/python/hershey.py: hershey: generate the right number of display lists
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[18:33:27] <jepler> I couldn't resist working on foam cutter mode. My patches are independent of (but inspired by and in a few caess copied from) IchGucksLive's.
http://git.unpythonic.net/view?p=emc2-jepler.git;a=summary http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/foam2.png
[18:37:09] <jepler> compared to his latest patch, I think the main advantage of mine is that it uses the efficient C++ liveplotter for the foam live plot
[18:37:33] <JT-Shop> cool
[18:37:50] <jepler> it also enables "foam mode" based on the inifile, not the G17.1 modal code
[18:42:45] <CIA-96> 03tissf 07v2.5_branch * r4e1a882f5b30 10/docs/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): French docs: update and cleaning
[18:43:30] <cradek> precise won't talk to my wifi. it will only accept a wep-style passphrase and I'm wpa2.
[18:48:11] <jepler> that's a crazy limitation. are you sure you haven't done something wrong?
[18:48:38] <cradek> I wonder if I'm missing a terrible firmware or driver or something
[18:49:23] <cradek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/282840
[18:50:38] <cradek> I can't tell what's going on yet
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[18:51:05] <jepler> that can't possibly be about your card, unless you have 10-year old wireless
[18:51:38] <cradek> Intersil ISL3874 [Prism 2.5]
[18:51:56] <jepler> ancient pcmcia card?
[18:52:05] <cradek> I think it's mini-pci
[18:52:17] <cradek> it's in my slightly-older thinkpad
[18:52:52] <cradek> last seen working in hardy
[18:53:28] <jepler> oh so you don't know if it worked in lucid
[18:53:37] <cradek> nope
[18:53:50] <jepler> I retract all my "can't be"s, then
[18:53:58] <cradek> ha
[18:55:04] <jepler> I'm just surprised you're still trying to use an 802.11b wireless, given that its peak transfer rates are something like 1/10 of your cable
[18:55:32] <cradek> it's beneath a hundred screws in the laptop
[18:55:54] <cradek> I can always plug in a cable if I need fast
[18:56:21] <cradek> darn, my "new" thinkpad has a totally different card (Intel PRO/Wireless LAN 2100)
[18:56:33] <cradek> so I have no idea - maybe it's just not going to work.
[19:00:06] <jepler> how long have theinkpads been broken so that only a whitelist of mini-pci cards will work in them?
[19:00:21] <cradek> long time
[19:00:26] <cradek> fuckers
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[19:02:13] <cradek> maybe I should get a hardy live cd and see if it actually works
[19:02:33] <cradek> hm wonder if I've got a dapper here somewhere
[19:03:26] <cradek> whee
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[19:13:40] <cradek> hardy livecd doesn't seem to do wireless at all...
[19:13:42] <cradek> fff
[19:14:59] <cradek> trying lucid
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[20:41:26] <cradek> jepler: a firmware (or at least that's what I think I did) update fixed it:
http://www.plzk.de/archiv/files/docs/Linux-Firmware-Flashen-Prism2.5-Intersil-WPA-HOWTO-2006.html
[20:42:04] <cradek> color me shocked
[20:43:42] <jepler> so you got it working?
[20:44:19] <GoSebGo> Nice, it's hard to live without wifi these days
[20:44:28] <cradek> yes it actually works
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[20:48:17] <cradek> if you have to make your awesome checkbutton replacement say ON and OFF, it's a failure
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[20:50:44] <jepler> I'm disappointed by the quality of the GIS results for "awesome checkbutton"
[20:51:16] <cradek> wow
[20:51:26] <cradek> apparently it's what I should call my next project, whatever it is
[20:52:07] <cradek> they halfassedly reimplemented the OPEN LOOK scrollbar, but only for some windows, and it disappears sometimes
[20:57:40] <GoSebGo> Cool, we should have some awesome widgets
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[20:58:04] <GoSebGo> To whom should we assign the action item of implementing some?
[20:58:45] <cradek> dunno - guess we'll have to vote
[20:59:00] <GoSebGo> It's a total showstopper that we dont have some awesome scrollbars
[20:59:14] <cradek> I don't think we have scrollbars at all
[20:59:37] <GoSebGo> Well crap
[20:59:56] <cradek> I'm trying to accept it, but still, unity makes me want to cry
[21:00:12] <GoSebGo> Heh
[21:00:40] <GoSebGo> Oh come on, dont you want a computer that's just like a phone?
[21:01:16] <cradek> not even a little bit, no
[21:01:31] <cradek> I do like the new fixed font, though
[21:01:51] <cradek> except for how the zeroes are staring at me, it's really readable
[21:02:03] <GoSebGo> Well then, just pop open a terminal and quit worrying about the gui
[21:02:19] <cradek> I did figure out how to get a terminal
[21:02:33] <cradek> however, it took me quite a while to figure out how to get *two* terminals
[21:03:23] <GoSebGo> Two? You ask way too much
[21:04:25] <cradek> in windowmaker, you could tell a dock icon that it's supposed to launch multiples
[21:05:42] <cradek> er, I think I'm wrong
[21:07:02] <GoSebGo> Arent there some non-unity desktop options? Lubuntu, xubuntu
[21:08:20] <cradek> jepler:
http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/awesome-checkbutton.png
[21:08:42] <cradek> GoSebGo: yes surely there are
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[21:14:14] <jepler> cradek: sorry to be the one to tell you this, but that style of checkbutton is stolen from iphone
[21:14:46] <cradek> oh
[21:14:55] <jepler> you should consider yourself lucky if you don't have to drag the rectangle on top of the word "on" to switch it to "off"
[21:15:49] <cradek> true.
[21:18:33] <alex_joni> heh
[21:18:57] <alex_joni> window close again on the left?
[21:19:08] <cradek> yeah and I haven't yet found how to change it
[21:19:12] <cradek> it's hidden better now
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[21:21:04] <alex_joni> "the community-themes available include themes that have right-aligned window buttons..."
[21:22:17] <cradek> all menus appear with the top and bottom items missing and up/down arrows, even when they take up only a very small part of the screen. then when you waggle the mouse, the arrows disappear and the menu jumps around and settles with everything showing
[21:22:48] <cmorley> seb_kuzminsky: Ok Thanks I'll fix it. Strange it never came up before...is it because of your changes?
[21:24:40] <GoSebGo> Cmorley: i dont think so - i dont see how the pre-change watchdog code could have run with such a short timeout either
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[21:26:15] <cmorley> I remember have a little trouble long ago but i forget the work around...anyways I will fix - so that would be the minimum recommendation?
[21:27:08] <GoSebGo> 5 ms should be safe. You might argue for shorter... It needs to be at least servo period plus jitter
[21:29:42] <cmorley> ah i see the default watchdog in PNCconf is 10 000 000 but it probably can be set lower... I'll check that. We are talking 2.5?
[21:30:54] <GoSebGo> Hmmm. 10 ms should be fine, but thats not what cncbasher got, he got 1 007 000, which doesnt work at all
[21:31:10] <GoSebGo> The fix should go in 2.5
[21:31:35] <cmorley> ok I am looking at the python code. running pncconf now to see the real answer
[21:32:06] <GoSebGo> Its in pncconf.glade
[21:32:22] <cmorley> default is 10 000 000
[21:32:52] <cmorley> 1 007 000 is minimum. I'll fix that
[21:34:00] <cmorley> python code overrides the glad default
[21:34:04] <cmorley> glade
[21:34:18] <GoSebGo> Did cncbasher turn the timeout down to the min and forget he did it?
[21:35:32] <cmorley> look like it. if you type a number in it lower then minimum then it will jump to glade default - actually glades min is 1 000 000 so he moved up a bit from there.
[21:35:54] <cmorley> sorry it jumps to glade minimum
[21:36:21] <cmorley> anyways I will raise the minimum. Thanks for telling me.
[21:37:45] <GoSebGo> Thanks for fixing it! Between a fix there and the warning message i added to the driver, hopefully our users wont be bit by this again
[21:38:39] <GoSebGo> Hm, pncconf doesnt run on precise
[21:39:07] <cmorley> true, I some times wonder if i should convert it to seconds in pncconf so the number has more meaning
[21:40:01] <cmorley> I'm not surprised about precise. pncconf uses gnome library that I bet is not included.
[21:40:23] <cmorley> the druid that pncconf uses is old stuff.
[21:41:28] <cmorley> unfortunately the alternate 'assistant' is fairly broken in glade too and they don\t seem interested in fixing it.
[21:42:33] <GoSebGo> Bummer
[21:43:13] <cmorley> yes I'm not sure what to do yet. is precise on the buildbot now?
[21:43:28] <GoSebGo> Yes
[21:43:40] <GoSebGo> Pncconf builds but does not run
[21:43:55] <cmorley> well I guess i should get cracking on it then! k thanks
[21:44:55] <cmorley> Are we using precise with unity or are we gonna look at others window managers?
[21:45:12] <GoSebGo> i dont know
[21:46:09] <cmorley> unity is fine i guess for just running linux but it sucks to do work on.
[21:46:50] <cradek> wow, they took away the ability to set the font or font size
[21:46:54] <cmorley> \I see mint uses gnome3 (is that right) with some fixes that seems much better
[21:47:23] <cmorley> ya stock both of them suck
[21:47:45] <cradek> sigh.
[21:49:57] <cmorley> actually mint 12 same mate that is the continuation of gnome2. Ya I dislike the lack of choice. My pc is not a smart phone.
[21:50:26] <cmorley> mint 12 has Mate - gee I can't type!
[21:51:41] <cmorley> I wonder if we shouldn't look at mint in the future they seem to make better choices and its a Ubuntu spin off
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[21:52:03] <cradek> perhaps
[21:52:22] <cmorley> I've tested mint12 but not used it for any length of time.
[21:52:23] <cradek> the only good thing about ubuntu is they made a system that seems to boot and install on lots and lots of hardware
[21:52:44] <cradek> if another system has that too, then maybe we win
[21:52:54] <cmorley> but thats what i mean mint and Ubuntu are closely related from what I have read
[21:53:15] <cradek> maybe I should try it next
[21:53:31] <cradek> I'm also curious about pcbsd (not related to linuxcnc)
[21:53:43] <cmorley> some describe it as Ubuntu after two weeks of tweaks :)
[21:53:46] <GoSebGo> As long as we stay with something based on debian i'm happy
[21:53:49] <cradek> or maybe try basic debian again
[21:54:47] <cradek> now that lucid has a new firefox I see no big reason to quit using it any time soon
[21:55:20] <cradek> (although I've noticed their nvidia driver is getting old enough to start causing problems for people who want that)
[21:56:02] <cradek> I never seem to know what I want, but I often see things I know I don't want :-/
[21:56:34] <GoSebGo> Cmorley: i just installed a pre-rename emc2 deb on lucid and ran pncconf, and it gave me a bogus 1.007 ms watchdog timeout
[21:57:18] <GoSebGo> 2.5.0-pre2.626
[21:58:12] <GoSebGo> Trying the latest linuxcnc deb now.
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[21:58:40] <GoSebGo> He ran awat
[22:04:10] <GoSebGo> linuxcnc 2.5.0-pre2.802 has the same bogus timeout
[22:04:31] <GoSebGo> These are both sim packages on lucid, fwiw
[22:05:58] <CIA-96> 03cmorley 07v2.5_branch * r455c142b9a39 10/src/emc/usr_intf/pncconf/pncconf.glade: pncconf - raise minimum watchdog time out to 5ms
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[22:14:02] <GoSebGo> cmorley, i tried pncconf in two recent debs and they both offered a bogus timeout of 1.007 ms
[22:15:04] <GoSebGo> By default, i just hit the Forward button until i came to the page with the watchdog on it
[22:15:12] <cmorley> are we talking 2.5? i just tried it too and got 10 000 000 something strange going on.
[22:15:21] <cmorley> i'll check again
[22:15:27] <GoSebGo> Yes
[22:15:54] <GoSebGo> 2.5.0-pre2.626 and .802
[22:16:39] <cmorley> yes i just hit forward too and i get 10 000 000. i just pushed the fix for minimuim.
[22:17:39] <GoSebGo> You're running rip?
[22:17:57] <cmorley> yes
[22:18:53] <cmorley> it is working for me in rip. I closed the terminal ans reran the script. then started pncconf
[22:19:07] <GoSebGo> Maybe some diff between how you build and how yhe packaging scrips build?
[22:19:25] <cmorley> same glade file right?
[22:20:36] <cmorley> strangley that 1.007 ms default is the gladefile default (as you said) but that should be overridden by pncconf
[22:20:46] <GoSebGo> What happens if you build a paclage?
[22:21:02] <cmorley> don't know how to do that
[22:21:17] <GoSebGo> fakeroot debian/rules binary
[22:21:40] <cmorley> type that in on a terminal?
[22:22:03] <GoSebGo> Yes, from the root of a git checkout
[22:22:15] <cmorley> and what will that do to my system?
[22:22:48] <GoSebGo> Nothing, just compile linuxcnc and make a .deb package
[22:22:56] <cmorley> ok hold on
[22:22:59] <GoSebGo> Wont install or emove anything
[22:24:10] <cmorley> no such file/dir
[22:24:43] <GoSebGo> In debian dir, run ./configure sim."
[22:24:50] <GoSebGo> Oops
[22:25:13] <GoSebGo> ./configure sim or ./configure -r (for realtime)
[22:25:41] <cmorley> ok sucsesful. back to tip ?
[22:25:52] <GoSebGo> Yes
[22:25:58] <cmorley> working...
[22:28:21] <cmorley> build error looks like with docs
[22:28:51] <GoSebGo> You might be lacking build dependencies
[22:28:59] <GoSebGo> Run dpkg-checkbuilddeps
[22:29:02] <cmorley> t2aenc.def not found
[22:29:24] <cmorley> from where?
[22:29:39] <cmorley> got it
[22:30:04] <cmorley> yep unmet depends.
[22:30:36] <cmorley> command to add them ?
[22:31:02] <GoSebGo> Sudo apt-get install $PACKAGENAME
[22:32:35] <cmorley> thanks . hmmm 0 newly installed 6 not upgraded
[22:33:20] <cmorley> i will add them manually i guess
[22:34:23] <cmorley> working...
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[22:52:10] <GoSebGo> When i do a rip build, i still get the short timeout.
[22:52:48] <GoSebGo> Cmorley: maybe you have in-committed files lying around? Or old build products?
[22:53:03] <GoSebGo> Oops, *un*comitted files
[22:55:20] <CIA-96> 03tissf 07v2.5_branch * r1c7a668024be 10/docs/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): French docs: cleaning
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[22:56:32] <GoSebGo> cmorley, i still get bad timeout when i build rip
[22:57:18] <cmorley> buit deb got error but pncconf and pncconf.glade were built and they have the fix in them
[22:57:52] <cmorley> I am make clean and then make . no uncomiitted changes on gitk
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[22:58:36] <cmorley> seems some of my messages to you didn't go through...
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[22:59:43] <GoSebGo> Yes, your session has timed out several times
[22:59:57] <GoSebGo> That can cause messages you type not to get sent
[23:00:29] <cmorley> yep I checked on psha 's log
[23:13:49] <cmorley> just did make clean;make still get 10 000 000 default with pushed fix.
[23:13:58] <cmorley> don't know whats going on
[23:16:16] <cmorley> as i said i don't know how you would get default 1.07 ms as the python code overrides the default with 10 ms.
[23:17:00] <GoSebGo> the fix you pushed fixes things. Before the fix it's broken
[23:18:03] <cmorley> ok . i guess as long as it's fixed !
[23:18:52] <cmorley> Thanks for your help with .deb that is cool
[23:21:51] <GoSebGo> Sure :-)
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