#linuxcnc-devel | Logs for 2012-01-27

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[02:26:39] <seb_kuzminsky> Hi SWPadnos
[02:26:57] <SWPadnos> hi
[02:27:18] <SWPadnos> I guess I should have reconnected this client to the new channels a while ago
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[03:09:56] <seb_kuzminsky> hi clytle, bye clytle
[03:10:20] <skunkworks> how do you pronounce that?
[03:10:38] <skunkworks> cl-eye-tle?
[03:11:54] <skunkworks> Hi seb
[03:12:00] <seb_kuzminsky> hi skunk :-)
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[03:12:36] <seb_kuzminsky> i've been hearing cl-eye-tell in my head, but i wonder if it's not C-something Lytle
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[03:19:51] <seb_kuzminsky> hi clytle374, did you see the thread on emc-developers about changes to the hm2 watchdog? peter thought it might fix the problem you were seeing
[03:21:19] <clytle374> Yeah, just got back in town ans saw it. Thanks. I'm trying to get the machine brought back up to test it.
[03:31:49] <clytle374> Having satellite problems at the moment. heavy rain
[03:32:05] <seb_kuzminsky> satellites aren't botherd by rain, silly
[03:33:22] <clytle374> No, I'm sure it is doing just fine. The signal on the other hand, not so good
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[03:43:06] <seb_kuzminsky> not so good, indeed
[03:44:57] -!- clytle374 [clytle374!~clytle374@] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[03:47:44] <clytle374> It's c lytle the y has the I sound
[03:47:49] <clytle374> c for cory
[03:48:10] <seb_kuzminsky> hi cory!
[03:49:50] <clytle374> Now I can't tell funny stories about customers ;)
[03:50:48] <seb_kuzminsky> note to self: don't rub eyeball after eating a bunch of chili peppers
[03:53:04] <clytle374> ouch.
[03:53:27] <seb_kuzminsky> do you do linuxcnc work for customers?
[03:53:54] <clytle374> seldom, some repair... little training... mostly repair manual stuff
[03:54:04] <clytle374> Working on machine #1 now
[03:54:12] <seb_kuzminsky> mechanical repairs i guess?
[03:54:21] <clytle374> yep
[03:54:28] <seb_kuzminsky> cool
[03:54:50] <clytle374> Some cnc repair. Mostly manual stuff around here. coal country
[03:55:37] <clytle374> I gotta tell this story. Lathe dies after 3 weeks of use. They let it set of a year and then find use to come fix it.
[03:56:14] <clytle374> I open the gear box and you can see it's been run dry. Plenty of oil in the headstock.
[03:56:55] <seb_kuzminsky> yikes
[03:57:02] <clytle374> So I've got it all tore apart and waiting on parts.. They think it should be warranty even though it it's been over a year
[03:57:37] <clytle374> I'll bet a lot of money it's phased backwards and the oil pump was blowing bubbles the whole time
[03:58:30] <seb_kuzminsky> hah
[04:07:28] <clytle374> They seem mad at me even though we didn't sell them the cheap crappy lathe they bought.
[04:09:12] <clytle374> So anyone use Linuxcnc on an OD grinder? Someone wants 3 done really badly
[04:09:58] <seb_kuzminsky> is an od grinder like a lathe with a toolpost grinder?
[04:10:14] <clytle374> bingo
[04:10:36] <seb_kuzminsky> sounds easy, but maybe there's trickiness i'm not thinking of
[04:12:39] <clytle374> dressing the wheel is the only catch I can think of, and that's only if it needs to be automatic
[04:13:10] <seb_kuzminsky> do you need to dress the wheel in the middle of a workpiece, or is it enough to dress it between workpieces?
[04:14:22] <clytle374> In between is okay 95% or more of the time
[04:15:22] <seb_kuzminsky> sell them a 95% solution ;-)
[04:16:54] <clytle374> I'm pretty sure that would make this guy more than happy.
[04:17:45] <clytle374> Coal mines have a massive appetite for hydraulics and electric motors.
[04:22:17] <clytle374> I think when I tar balled the old system I forgot to mount the /boot partition
[04:22:50] <clytle374> I have this "I'm starting over feeling"
[04:23:54] <seb_kuzminsky> if you have the source in your tarball, you might do a fresh install, untar your stuff in there, and rebuild and reinstall your kernel
[04:26:14] <clytle374> It's a Gentoo system. The install is the time consuming part
[04:26:20] <seb_kuzminsky> lol
[04:29:46] <clytle374> I'll clone my netbook onto that machine... Both are similar
[04:30:48] <seb_kuzminsky> and of course, this watchdog change might do you no good at all...
[04:31:35] <clytle374> yeah, but it's more hope than I've had in a week or 2
[04:32:17] <seb_kuzminsky> you're working on new rtai and new kernels, right?
[04:32:34] <clytle374> yes, I've only been messing with it a little in hopes of find something that might help you all out for the next release.
[04:32:41] <seb_kuzminsky> sweet
[04:32:43] <clytle374> well even 2.6.32 doesn't work
[04:32:47] <seb_kuzminsky> we badly need that
[04:32:57] <seb_kuzminsky> 2.6.32 is working well for me
[04:33:14] <clytle374> that's why I started thinking glibc or gcc
[04:33:42] <seb_kuzminsky> it can't be glibc, because hm2 doesnt use any of glibc
[04:33:47] <seb_kuzminsky> it might be gcc i suppose
[04:33:54] <seb_kuzminsky> but that seems unlikely to me
[04:34:23] <clytle374> what gcc was the last release built with?
[04:35:59] <seb_kuzminsky> let's see... we have "official" realtime releases for hardy and lucid
[04:36:10] <seb_kuzminsky> hardy builds with gcc 4.2.4
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[04:36:29] <seb_kuzminsky> lucid builds with 4.4.3
[04:36:47] <clytle374> then I doubt that's it either
[04:36:59] <seb_kuzminsky> we also have sim (non-realtime) builds on precise, which uses 4.6.2
[04:37:19] <seb_kuzminsky> and we do test-builds with clang 2.8 (though we don't run the tests on those binaries)
[04:37:40] <clytle374> I can build the sim, and can run lpt configs okay
[04:37:41] <seb_kuzminsky> what version of rtai did you put on your problematic 2.6.32 kernel
[04:37:55] <seb_kuzminsky> oh...
[04:38:05] <clytle374> magna/vulcano/3.8
[04:38:17] <seb_kuzminsky> i've noticed that anyio boards can be a bit particular about the motherboards they like...
[04:38:52] <seb_kuzminsky> have you tried the non-pci anyio boards? same results?
[04:39:21] <clytle374> All I have is 2 5i20s
[04:39:59] <seb_kuzminsky> what motherboard are you running your tests on?
[04:40:20] <clytle374> tried both Intel D525MW & Intel D945GCLF2
[04:40:51] <seb_kuzminsky> do those motherboards run our regular lucid realtime kernel ok?
[04:41:15] <clytle374> live disk works fine
[04:41:23] <seb_kuzminsky> with hm2?
[04:41:30] <clytle374> yes.
[04:41:57] <seb_kuzminsky> ok, so the motherboard is good and the 5i20 is good
[04:42:48] <clytle374> yep.
[04:43:36] <clytle374> cloning the netbook was a bad idea.. Can't chroot from 32bit to 64bit
[04:44:19] <seb_kuzminsky> on lucid we ship Linux 2.6.32 and RTAI 3.8.1, is that what you're trying to build on Gentoo?
[04:44:38] <clytle374> yes
[04:44:54] <clytle374> I started on and kept backing down
[04:44:57] <seb_kuzminsky> how did you generate your kernel config?
[04:45:13] <seb_kuzminsky> i haven't built rtai for linuxcnc since 2007 or something...
[04:45:28] <seb_kuzminsky> on Feisty, i think it was
[04:48:18] <clytle374> I started with the howtos on the wiki, finally copied the config off the 10.04 live disk
[04:49:46] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm going to guess it's something wonky in your gentoo build environment then
[04:49:54] <seb_kuzminsky> have you tried it in Ubuntu?
[04:50:43] <seb_kuzminsky> if it's to assist the next release, we're much more likely to target Precise than some new distro
[04:54:15] <clytle374> If you can build it in precise, I'm guessing it is something specific to Gentoo.
[04:54:39] <seb_kuzminsky> i've not built the realtime kernel in precise
[04:55:18] <seb_kuzminsky> but the versions & configs you're using, if i understand you correctly, *do* build and work well in lucid
[04:55:31] <seb_kuzminsky> but i haven't actually verified that for myself
[04:55:51] <seb_kuzminsky> i just took mozmck's word for it and happily used the kernel deps he provided :-)
[04:56:02] <clytle374> Something is odd
[04:57:05] <clytle374> I tried building it 2 years ago in Ubuntu.. I switched back to Gentoo a couple weeks later after fighting the toolchain in Ubuntu.
[04:57:37] <clytle374> Not a problem a Gentoo user can tolerate for very long ;)
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[04:58:41] <seb_kuzminsky> i remember the ubuntu kernel toolchain as being big and confusing, until i realized they're trying to build and manage many different kernel flavors on several architectures, then it all made sense
[04:58:56] <seb_kuzminsky> but like i said, that was like 5 years ago, i assume it's changed a lot since then
[04:59:34] <clytle374> 5 years ago, they intentionally made compiling a kernel difficult
[04:59:55] <seb_kuzminsky> no, they intentionally didn't tell you how to do it, which is slightly different ;-)
[05:00:26] <seb_kuzminsky> it was actually really clean and simple, once you reverse-engineered their build system ;-)
[05:00:45] <clytle374> I hear that about windows too
[05:00:46] <mozmck> That's true.
[05:00:58] <seb_kuzminsky> whoa, mozmck is here! hi mozmck!
[05:01:08] <mozmck> hi seb_kuzminsky!
[05:01:27] <mozmck> saw my name pop up.
[05:01:37] <seb_kuzminsky> your phone went "boop"
[05:02:00] <mozmck> heh, don't have a phone like that. Just sitting here working on a usb project
[05:02:10] <seb_kuzminsky> cool
[05:02:22] * seb_kuzminsky looks guiltily at the half-finished projects on his workbench
[05:03:09] <mozmck> heh, I've got a million of those I think.
[05:03:14] <clytle374> okay, I have a working system... 64bit, but it's here and not 2 days away
[05:03:43] <clytle374> rtai tests all run
[05:03:49] <mozmck> I never did post my notes on building the kernel anywhere. I bet things have changed some again for precise.
[05:03:50] <seb_kuzminsky> we have successful realtime builds on 64-bit hardy, but i think one or possibly zero users of it
[05:04:13] <seb_kuzminsky> clytle374: that's great!
[05:04:39] <clytle374> building cnc now
[05:05:58] <clytle374> are all the kernel headers in /usr/src/linux on Ubuntu by chance?
[05:06:17] <seb_kuzminsky> /usr/src/linux-headers-$VERSION
[05:07:03] <clytle374> Linus would not approve
[05:07:17] <seb_kuzminsky> meh
[05:08:16] <clytle374> hm2 surely depends on them. ??
[05:08:59] <seb_kuzminsky> yes, i think just about all our realtime code does
[05:09:21] <mozmck> I haven't had time to follow things here. remind me why you needed to compile a new kernel?
[05:09:49] <seb_kuzminsky> if we want to support Precise Pangolin 12.04
[05:10:34] <clytle374> It started because that's what I always do (gentoo user)
[05:10:34] <seb_kuzminsky> Lucid's coming up on 2 years old, and that's like 100 in internet years
[05:10:35] <mozmck> Oh, but clytle374 is working on an old kernel...
[05:10:44] <clytle374> Then it turned personal
[05:10:47] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[05:10:54] <mozmck> clytle374: I see. I know the feeling.
[05:11:10] <clytle374> Then I thought something was broken with cnc and newer kernels, so I thought I'd help
[05:11:33] <clytle374> Then I found out that I couldn't get 2.6.32 to work with hm2 either
[05:11:44] <mozmck> I'm waiting on an adeos ipipe patch for the 3.2 kernel.
[05:12:08] <clytle374> you don't use the rtai patches?
[05:12:48] <mozmck> yes, but they are based on adeos. there's no adeos patch yet so there can't be an rtai patch either.
[05:12:57] <seb_kuzminsky> what's adeos?
[05:13:42] <mozmck> They make the kernel patch that the realtime stuff is based on.
[05:13:45] <clytle374> seems like patch works okay, with the lpt port examples
[05:15:38] <seb_kuzminsky> clytle374: the problem you were having with the hm2 driver was unexpected watchdog bites, right?
[05:16:56] <clytle374> yeah, and the truncated pinouts in dmesg
[05:17:25] <seb_kuzminsky> my first guess is your realtime kernel isnt as realtime as you'd hope :-/
[05:17:47] <clytle374> that could be.
[05:18:11] <clytle374> If it would fail a test, any test... I might know where to look
[05:19:22] <clytle374> brb, going to see if it works
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[05:23:01] <seb_kuzminsky> oh yeah, aren't you getting good numbers from the rtai latency tests?
[05:23:32] <clytle374> yeah, was under 4000 jitter
[05:23:40] <seb_kuzminsky> that's good
[05:23:42] <clytle374> Still bit 3 times in a row
[05:23:52] <seb_kuzminsky> so why does it suck when you start linuxcnc? (if that's what the problem is)
[05:23:52] <clytle374> 4 time it didn't, output here
[05:25:14] <seb_kuzminsky> are you building a recent 2.5?
[05:25:27] <clytle374> idk, at first I thought I'd back up until it worked and have an idea
[05:25:40] <clytle374> ran git pull right before building it
[05:25:50] <clytle374> http://pastebin.com/D3AtEv8S
[05:26:17] <seb_kuzminsky> which branch are you on? master?
[05:26:34] <clytle374> 2.5.0-pre2
[05:26:40] <clytle374> should I be on master
[05:26:41] <clytle374> ?
[05:27:26] <seb_kuzminsky> i havent merged the watchdog updates to master yet
[05:27:38] <seb_kuzminsky> did the output end there on line 35? there should be much more
[05:28:12] <seb_kuzminsky> i wonder what the 170 millisecond pause is between finding the card on the pci bus and reporting on how the firmware was configured
[05:28:23] <clytle374> that's the end... until you shutdown
[05:28:54] <seb_kuzminsky> one of the kernel config parameters is the size of the log buffer, what do you have that set to? it might just be too small
[05:29:34] <clytle374> it's set to 18, default on vanilla kernel
[05:30:25] <seb_kuzminsky> we run with 17, so that should be fine
[05:31:03] <seb_kuzminsky> what's it look like when it does bite?
[05:32:53] <clytle374> http://pastebin.com/XLZgpyf7
[05:33:17] <clytle374> I do thank you for looking into this, but you really don;t need to spend time on it.
[05:33:34] <clytle374> Doesn't seem like it's going to be a problem for you folks anyway
[05:33:50] <seb_kuzminsky> there's a big old gap on my lucid machine too between finding the 5i20 and reporting the pins, about 200 milliseconds
[05:34:38] <seb_kuzminsky> that bite log is confusing
[05:35:10] <seb_kuzminsky> at 1883.823879 the board is discovered and the driver is about to send the firmware
[05:35:11] <clytle374> the runtests in scripts give no errors either
[05:35:20] <seb_kuzminsky> at 1883.993574, the watchdog bites
[05:35:43] <seb_kuzminsky> it shouldn't bite for another 800 milliseconds
[05:36:07] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm interested in this kernel issue because i want a precise kernel at some time in the future
[05:37:01] <seb_kuzminsky> you have a newer "IPIPE-NOTHREADS", whatever that is
[05:37:15] <seb_kuzminsky> your dmesg says: #
[05:37:15] <seb_kuzminsky> [ 1883.538482] RTAI[hal]: <3.8.1> mounted over IPIPE-NOTHREADS 2.8-04.
[05:37:27] <seb_kuzminsky> mine says: RTAI[hal]: <3.8.1> mounted over IPIPE-NOTHREADS 2.6-03.
[05:37:38] <clytle374> postix thread?
[05:38:11] <clytle374> does the build need the kernel source or just the headers?
[05:38:29] <clytle374> Mine are in /usr/include/linux
[05:39:38] <seb_kuzminsky> no, posix threads are a userspace thing
[05:39:54] <seb_kuzminsky> the linuxcnc build needs just the kernel headers
[05:40:07] <seb_kuzminsky> when i start realtime i get one message that you dont:
[05:40:09] <seb_kuzminsky> RTAI[usi]: enabled.
[05:40:19] <seb_kuzminsky> i dont know what that is, but your system doesnt do it
[05:41:28] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, you should try the new watchdog code in 2.5
[05:41:31] <clytle374> well maybe the headers are the problem. It's probably finding the headers in the kernel source tree
[05:41:59] <clytle374> I thought that is what I just did
[05:42:24] <seb_kuzminsky> you said you're on master, right? i didn't merge the watchdog stuff into master yet
[05:42:29] <seb_kuzminsky> it's on the 2.5 branch
[05:42:43] <seb_kuzminsky> oh, you are on 2.5, duh, sorry
[05:44:20] <clytle374> I search both configs for ipipe and don't see anything related to nothreads
[05:44:27] <seb_kuzminsky> do you configure with --with-realtime=$RTAI_PATH?
[05:44:58] <clytle374> no, it's in /usr/src/rtai
[05:45:15] <clytle374> I keep tabbing on paths in the chat window :(
[05:45:59] <mozmck> heh, I find myself doing that everywhere :)
[05:46:13] <seb_kuzminsky> so you say "configure --with-realtime=/usr/src/rtai"?
[05:47:14] <clytle374> no, it never complained
[05:47:49] <seb_kuzminsky> hm, if you dont do that i think it defaults to simulator? i'm not sure
[05:48:21] <clytle374> I think you have to specify simulator
[05:48:45] <seb_kuzminsky> run configure the way you do it, and pastebin the command and all the output
[05:49:33] <seb_kuzminsky> mozmck: to adeos is the tiny kernel that runs on the bare metal, and it runs linux and all the realtime threads? and rtai is like a helper library for writing code to run on adeos? is that how it works?
[05:50:12] <seb_kuzminsky> clytle374: oh yeah, you're right, it finds the realtime dir if you don't say --enable-simulator
[05:50:33] <clytle374> if I use the --realtime= it gives checking for RT dir... configure: error: RT not found. Specify:
[05:52:03] <mozmck> seb_kuzminsky: I haven't had the time to really figure out how it works. I think the ipipe patch from adeos intercepts all interrupts and passes them through the realtime stuff before the rest of the kernel can get them. That's off the top of my head from things I think I saw, so it's probably wrong :)
[05:52:22] <mozmck> seb_kuzminsky: see http://home.gna.org/adeos/
[05:52:26] <seb_kuzminsky> this software stack is pretty hairy...
[05:52:43] <mozmck> There's a paper on it there that I haven't had time to read yet.
[05:52:46] <clytle374> http://pastebin.com/jCfQ8NTF
[05:52:48] <seb_kuzminsky> awesome, they publish their design doc as a postscript file
[05:54:54] <seb_kuzminsky> clytle374: you dont have rtai_shm, isn't that bad? i thought we use that...
[05:55:11] <seb_kuzminsky> oh wait, neverminf
[05:55:15] <seb_kuzminsky> you do have it
[05:55:22] <seb_kuzminsky> but our lucid doesnt
[05:55:27] * seb_kuzminsky is confused
[05:57:04] <seb_kuzminsky> next time we build a realtime kernel for real, let's do it in a public git repo so we can see how it's done
[05:57:30] <mozmck> how do we do that?
[05:57:59] <mozmck> I've got notes I need to look at again and clean up from the last time.
[05:58:19] <seb_kuzminsky> it's great that you have notes, that'll probably help a lot next time around
[05:58:44] <clytle374> it would help if one of the tests would puke
[05:59:12] <seb_kuzminsky> mozmck: how do we do it, that's a good question
[05:59:42] <seb_kuzminsky> you used the upstream linux kernel package from lucid, right? and hacked on it and applied the rtai patch and a new config, and then just built the rtai flavour?
[05:59:46] <seb_kuzminsky> "just"
[06:00:17] <seb_kuzminsky> clytle374: on that one run you got where the watchdog didn't bite... did linuxcnc start up and show you axis (or whatever gui you chose)?
[06:00:34] <clytle374> yes, both did
[06:00:58] <clytle374> ./configure --with-kernel-headers=/usr/include/linux doesn't work no version.h
[06:01:04] <mozmck> seb_kuzminsky: yes
[06:02:19] <seb_kuzminsky> mozmck: do the ubuntu folks keep their kernel source package in git?
[06:03:40] <mozmck> seb_kuzminsky: yes. link forthcoming...
[06:03:54] <seb_kuzminsky> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/GitKernelBuild
[06:04:13] <seb_kuzminsky> ok that's really great, that'll make our job easier
[06:04:14] <mozmck> Here's most of my notes: http://pastebin.com/zQtUu8Fn
[06:04:47] <seb_kuzminsky> i'd guess we can do something like this:
[06:04:54] <seb_kuzminsky> 1. clone their kernel repo create a branch for our rtai flavor
[06:05:06] <seb_kuzminsky> oops, create a branch is step 2 :-)
[06:05:13] <seb_kuzminsky> put the rtai patches in there
[06:05:37] <mozmck> My notes may be a bit cryptic, but they go step by step I believe.
[06:05:38] <seb_kuzminsky> thanks for the notes.... reading....
[06:05:45] <seb_kuzminsky> lol, "apt-get install crash"
[06:06:12] <seb_kuzminsky> i like your franklin deleanor roosevelt alias
[06:07:04] <mozmck> heh, hadn't thought of that. Learned it from the ubuntu kernel guys. fakeroot debian/rules
[06:07:54] <seb_kuzminsky> a while back someone was making a shirt that said "debian/rules" on the front
[06:08:12] <seb_kuzminsky> and on the back: "the operating system your mom would use if it were about 5000x easier"
[06:08:19] <seb_kuzminsky> wish i'd bought one...
[06:08:37] <seb_kuzminsky> wow, you go all the way to a live cd, nice
[06:08:54] <mozmck> kernel link is git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-precise.git
[06:09:06] <seb_kuzminsky> rockin
[06:09:42] * seb_kuzminsky is cloning
[06:10:29] <mozmck> Here are some more notes, probably more cryptic... http://pastebin.com/cG0GBekp
[06:10:40] <clytle374> well emc doesn't like the version string
[06:11:47] <clytle374> the only ugly parts are building the packages for ubuntu
[06:13:20] <clytle374> I copied the one from /usr/src/linux to /usr/include/linux and it still pukes on version.h
[06:13:56] <mozmck> clytle374: did you disable module versioning in the kernel?
[06:14:51] <mozmck> clytle374: You might want to look at my first set of notes I just pasted. Might be of some help.
[06:15:08] <clytle374> not sure on this kernel. You don't have to if you add the Modulesysversion(spelled wrong) over
[06:15:27] <clytle374> I did, I think the config parts are in the wiki
[06:15:40] <mozmck> probably so.
[06:16:03] <mozmck> I know I couldn't get it to work right without disabling module versioning.
[06:16:33] <clytle374> It is, was easier than coping it every time I rebuilt
[06:17:48] <clytle374> version.h was copied and I get
[06:17:50] <clytle374> checking for kernel version string... configure: error: Kernel version string not found
[06:19:09] <KimK> clytle374, mozmck, seb_kuzminsky: Thanks to you guys (and any others I missed) for your work on getting us a new real-time kernel.
[06:19:22] <seb_kuzminsky> hi kim
[06:19:42] <clytle374> I hope I'm not side tracking the process ;)
[06:19:51] <mozmck> seb_kuzminsky: Those notes may be a good starting point for the next release, but I'm sure a good bit will have to be changed.
[06:20:03] <seb_kuzminsky> sure
[06:20:08] <seb_kuzminsky> looks like a great start to me
[06:20:40] <mozmck> I wonder if they could be put in git somewhere and then others can edit them as well. stuff like dependencies and all...
[06:20:56] <seb_kuzminsky> "they"?
[06:21:03] <seb_kuzminsky> the notes?
[06:21:06] <mozmck> yes
[06:21:47] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm not sure if a git repo is the right place for it
[06:21:50] <seb_kuzminsky> the wiki may be better
[06:21:58] <mozmck> may not be. wiki?
[06:22:01] <mozmck> ah.
[06:22:05] <KimK> If "they" were the developers and we put them in git, would it be like "Tron"?
[06:22:20] <seb_kuzminsky> it sounds like a git repo for our rtai branch of the ubuntu kernel makes sense though
[06:22:22] <mozmck> heh, hi KimK
[06:22:37] <mozmck> yeah, it's huge though.
[06:22:45] <seb_kuzminsky> huge is fine, disk is cheap
[06:23:08] <seb_kuzminsky> once we have a git repo for that, maybe we should put the notes into scripts and documents in that branch
[06:23:15] <KimK> Plus makes merging easy when ready.
[06:23:32] <mozmck> I think at one point there was a git repo for some of the config stuff.
[06:23:35] <clytle374> mozmck, you add rtai's Module.symvers to the kernels Module.symvers to use modules version support
[06:23:45] <seb_kuzminsky> right, we'll be able to easily merge mainline kernel bugfixes into our rtai branch if we do it that way
[06:24:39] <seb_kuzminsky> mozmck: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=infrastructure.git;a=tree;f=livecd/kernels/hardy;h=630b19a6b1f3b7d43ba1dbc46fa988beadbca8d5;hb=refs/heads/master
[06:24:39] <mozmck> The only problem I can see is that ubuntu kept coming out with updates to the kernel, and so I had to keep redoing everything. The updates were quite necessary too.
[06:24:51] <seb_kuzminsky> that's what git is for ;-)
[06:24:52] <mozmck> that's it.
[06:25:02] <seb_kuzminsky> looks like none of the lucid stuff made it in
[06:25:23] <mozmck> no, I should have done that. I still have it all I'm pretty sure.
[06:25:36] <seb_kuzminsky> heh, "it's on tape somewhere"
[06:26:04] <mozmck> along with the debian files for building rtai & etc.
[06:28:17] <seb_kuzminsky> do you know what's the status of rtai these days?
[06:28:39] <mozmck> They just came out with 3.9-pre something
[06:28:40] <clytle374> they are adding patches again
[06:28:46] <KimK> Maybe that would be a good place to start, get everything into git so that it builds what we have now, then declare a tag?
[06:29:01] <seb_kuzminsky> oh yeah, 3.9-test1, Jan 10!
[06:29:06] <mozmck> yep
[06:29:06] <seb_kuzminsky> great!
[06:29:28] <seb_kuzminsky> KimK: i think ubuntu uses a separate repo for the lucid kernel vs the precise kernel
[06:29:32] <mozmck> the main holdup for precise is the kernel patch
[06:29:58] <KimK> OK, you guys are the experts.
[06:30:03] <mozmck> it does.
[06:30:12] <seb_kuzminsky> so doing that would be very good for our lucid hygiene, but wouldn't help that much for the precise kernel
[06:30:29] <clytle374> why do you have to use the exact ubuntu kern? Is it patched that much?
[06:30:30] <seb_kuzminsky> i'd rather take what mozmck learned last time around and try to do it even better this time
[06:30:45] <seb_kuzminsky> we don't have to use the ubuntu kernel
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[06:31:09] <seb_kuzminsky> but we already use all the other ubuntu infrastructure
[06:31:20] <KimK> clytle374: Do you favor the vanilla kernel? Or something else?
[06:31:28] <seb_kuzminsky> and basing our kernel on the ubuntu kernel means we get their bug fixes for free^Wcheap
[06:31:41] <clytle374> I'm running vanilla,
[06:31:44] <mozmck> I asked about using the vanilla kernel last time but they wanted the ubuntu one.
[06:31:48] <clytle374> seb_kuzminsky, okay, makes sense
[06:32:27] <mozmck> It can make applying the kernel patch harder. There's stuff in my notes about that :)
[06:32:41] <seb_kuzminsky> good point
[06:32:51] <clytle374> harder, or impossible depending on skill level
[06:33:01] <seb_kuzminsky> the rtai folks or gna or adeos or whatever they're called are providing a patch against the linus kernel
[06:33:07] <seb_kuzminsky> ubuntu also patches the linus kernel
[06:33:21] <KimK> mozmck: "It... harder." = Ubuntu?
[06:33:21] <seb_kuzminsky> if we go with ubuntu's kernel, we get the task of porting the rtai patch to the ubuntu kernel
[06:33:22] <mozmck> heh, I hacked away until I figured it out.
[06:33:39] <mozmck> KimK: yeah, the ubuntu kernel.
[06:33:40] <clytle374> yeah, but how much? gentoo has few patches and vanilla will work fine.
[06:34:11] <mozmck> seb_kuzminsky: that's what I did last time, but it wasn't that bad. Most things applied fine.
[06:34:17] <seb_kuzminsky> KimK: "it" = basing our work on the ubuntu kernel instead of the linus kernel
[06:34:26] <seb_kuzminsky> mozmck: that's what I'd expect
[06:34:41] <seb_kuzminsky> i'd think ubuntu wouldn't drift too far from linus
[06:35:00] <seb_kuzminsky> or greg k-h, i think he's doing the lts kernels
[06:35:17] <mozmck> which precise is not using...
[06:35:25] <seb_kuzminsky> yes, there's that - oops!
[06:35:40] <seb_kuzminsky> criminy, rtai is using cvs
[06:35:52] <mozmck> yep
[06:35:54] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, 1988 called, they want their revision control system back
[06:36:57] <mozmck> I better go to bed. night all.
[06:36:59] <KimK> So two sources of problems (Ubuntu vs. RTAI) or three sources of problems (Ubuntu vs. Vanilla vs. RTAI), is that it?
[06:37:15] <seb_kuzminsky> goodnight mozmck, thanks for your notes and guidance
[06:37:23] <KimK> Goodnight, mozmck
[06:37:46] <seb_kuzminsky> KimK: everyone starts with the vanilla kernel (aka the linus kernel, aka the greg k-h kernel)
[06:38:04] <seb_kuzminsky> the ubuntu guys go off in one direction, and the rtai guys go off in another direction
[06:38:23] <seb_kuzminsky> if we base our stuff on vanilla, we just follow the rtai guys and we're done
[06:38:30] <clytle374> good night
[06:38:56] <seb_kuzminsky> if we base our stuff on the ubuntu kernel, we have to take the changes that the rtai guys did to the vanilla kernel and apply those changes to the ubuntu kernel instead
[06:39:25] <clytle374> well I copied the /usr/include headers into /usr/src/linux/include
[06:39:29] <clytle374> nothing changed
[06:39:42] <seb_kuzminsky> it'll probably be easy, as mozmck reports, since ubuntu and rtai are probably changing different parts of the kernel, so they wont have many merge conflicts and hopefully not many bad new interactions
[06:39:49] <KimK> And you are in favor of doing it that way? As we did before?
[06:40:41] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm very much in favor of starting with ubuntu, and adding rtai to that
[06:40:56] <seb_kuzminsky> because i think the quality of the ubuntu kernel is higher than that of the vanilla kernel
[06:41:36] <seb_kuzminsky> and because it's already well integrated into the ubuntu system we ship to our users, but that's a weaker argument because the vanilla kernel integrates pretty well as it is
[06:43:19] <clytle374> seems foreign to me that the over all system should rely on kernel changes much, if any
[06:43:35] <clytle374> maybe a bit of hardware compatiability
[06:43:55] <seb_kuzminsky> it's less an issue of the kernel/userspace abi, and more an issue of tools and developer/user expectations
[06:44:17] <seb_kuzminsky> any fairly recent kernel should run the ubuntu userspace without trouble, i agree
[06:44:38] <seb_kuzminsky> precise is currently shipping with 3.2.1
[06:46:24] <KimK> Could there be any Ubuntu-unique kernel issues due to Ubuntu's display/desktop? (Which I hope will be all ironed out by the time they deliver the next LTS version.)
[06:46:33] <seb_kuzminsky> shouldnt be
[06:46:39] <seb_kuzminsky> that's all userspace stuff
[06:46:40] <seb_kuzminsky> i think
[06:47:01] <clytle374> Is there going to be an option for a non 3d desktop?
[06:48:31] <seb_kuzminsky> i had assumed that ubuntu would still provide a simple x flavor like xfce, but i'm not sure
[06:49:29] <KimK> Since I started hanging around with EMC2, I've gotten to like sticking with LTS instead of hopping up every 6 months. I'm nervous, I hope the next LTS comes out good. I have heard there's a way to step back to gnome2(?) or whatever it was they had in 10.04?
[06:50:16] <KimK> So I guess there is a plan B?
[06:50:30] <clytle374> the mesa config needs gnome
[06:50:42] <clytle374> or at least gnome.ui
[06:50:44] <seb_kuzminsky> i sure don't have a plan B! i barely have a plan A: try to make it work on 12.04!
[06:51:09] <KimK> Ha, that's a good plan!
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[06:52:18] <clytle374> is the 12.04 beta out yet?
[06:52:28] <seb_kuzminsky> clytle374: yes
[06:52:46] <seb_kuzminsky> we have a 32-bit and a 64-bit 12.04 machine in the buildbot
[06:52:53] <seb_kuzminsky> both build sim until you get the realtime kernel going ;-)
[06:53:20] <clytle374> I might try and download it at work tomorrow and see if I can't put a 2.6.38 kernel under it
[06:53:34] <seb_kuzminsky> is that the most recent one rtai supports?
[06:53:48] <clytle374> as of 4 days ago, not sure now
[06:54:47] <clytle374> can't think of why version.h works in one place but not the other
[06:55:46] <clytle374> my plan was to build a super light gentoo xfce system for my machine(s), but going with the live disk for now.
[06:56:00] <clytle374> But a lot can change before I get that thing done
[06:56:03] <seb_kuzminsky> looks like there's plans for an "xubuntu" flavor based on xfce
[06:56:39] <clytle374> good, I'd hate to sell a machine running the PhoneOS called gnome
[06:57:00] <clytle374> I'd call it PhoneCNC
[06:58:03] <seb_kuzminsky> there's also a flavor called "lubuntu", based on lxde
[06:58:03] <clytle374> thanks for all the help seb_kuzminsky, I gotta feed my really sick dog again and try to get some sleep.
[06:58:10] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah me too
[06:58:12] <seb_kuzminsky> sleep i mean
[06:58:25] <clytle374> sick dogs suck
[06:58:31] <seb_kuzminsky> ok, good luck with the dog...
[06:59:07] <clytle374> thanks again.. Goodnight
[06:59:16] <seb_kuzminsky> sure thing! good night :-)
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[07:00:32] <seb_kuzminsky> i dont care that much about the gui, but i can tell other people do
[07:12:40] <KimK> I can get used to about anything, I guess, as long as it isn't *awful*. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
[07:14:59] <KimK> I haven't bothered to download the 12.04 prelim and try it, figuring if it *is* bad, they'll change it anyway. I'll get it when it's a little closer to release. Maybe in March? Unless you guys get me interested in following along with you, then sooner, maybe?
[07:15:27] <KimK> OK, goodnight, Seb, thanks again.
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[07:30:05] <GoSebGo> Goodnight kim
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[13:26:32] <CIA-96> 03jthornton 07v2.5_branch * rd4ff1bf165a3 10/docs/man/man3/intro.3hal: Docs: re-branding
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[18:33:30] <IchGucksLive> hi i need some help on selection to the line in axis is the line somewhere splitet in point cloud ? the mouse event gives back a X,Y
[18:44:25] <jepler> the "click a line in preview plot" code works through OpenGL display lists. make_selection_list must produce a series of OpenGL drawing commands just like for display, except with a call to glLoadName(n) before drawing lines that come from line N of the part program.
[18:44:56] <jepler> normally this is done by the C code in emcmodule.cc
[18:45:24] <IchGucksLive> i work my way threw
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[19:03:42] <IchGucksLive> jepler: does theline no come from t.index ?
[19:05:52] <IchGucksLive> no not there
[19:07:04] <jepler> the line number is the first item in each tuple in the self.traverse and self.feed items
[19:07:15] <IchGucksLive> got this
[19:08:22] <IchGucksLive> mouseklick fiers this GlCanonDraw.select(self, event.x, event.y)
[19:08:31] <jepler> it occurs to me that you might almost be able to us linucnc.draw_lines, if you specify the right geometry string (e.g., XY or UV) and do a glTranslate to move the 2d plot to the right height
[19:09:36] <IchGucksLive> i will keep this in mind
[19:12:46] <CIA-96> 03mhaberler 07v2.5_branch * rd1b6e4174a22 10/lib/python/gladevcp/hal_widgets.py: gladevcp/HAL_SpinButton widget: fix race condition
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[19:13:17] <jepler> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=zR40kAQN
[19:14:44] <IchGucksLive> i try this
[19:14:49] <CIA-96> 03mhaberler 07master * rcf41ac29cf9a 10/ (136 files in 29 dirs): Merge branch 'v2.5_branch'
[19:16:08] <jepler> this is not doing selection .. it's just doing the "regular" preview plot
[19:17:53] <jepler> actually .. it does make clicking the XYUV preview plot work, but the highlighted line is drawn in the wrong place
[19:18:23] <IchGucksLive> i see glcanonDrae.select needs to hold the lines then it might work i figure this out
[19:19:28] <IchGucksLive> i see i work on this now for 2 month you how now the flow of the data do 4 lines and it works for you so my work is sensless
[19:20:34] <IchGucksLive> all the back and forth set get loosless
[19:23:04] <jepler> and this makes the line that is selected show right: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=neDjq8ah
[19:23:50] <jepler> I think you've learned a lot . just because your code isn't the shortest possible doesn't mean it doesn't have value.
[19:24:49] <IchGucksLive> did you check this with xyuv_foam.ngc ?
[19:24:50] <jepler> you had the idea and you showed it was possible
[19:24:56] <jepler> yes, that's my test file
[19:25:54] <jepler> there's a lot my code *doesn't* do that your code does. Like the backplot, the two cones, the settable Z and W depth, and still working appropriately for 3-axis machines.
[19:27:24] <JT-Shop> IchGucksLive: when you learn something it is not useless work
[19:28:04] <IchGucksLive> B)
[19:28:17] <IchGucksLive> good talking
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[19:28:51] <jepler> hi cmorley
[19:34:53] <IchGucksLive> if 171 in self.state.gcodes: this is the switch !! for this in draw lines
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[19:39:40] <IchGucksLive> http://pastebin.com/NfUA9QV1
[19:40:32] <jepler> nice. you'll incorporate this into the next version of your patch?
[19:40:52] <IchGucksLive> i need to delete alot of lines
[19:41:08] <IchGucksLive> 250 out 8 in
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[19:42:16] <IchGucksLive> ok till tomorrow
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[20:02:21] <andypugh> I am confused. I have an installer that runs fine, but doesn't have the priviliges to create folders. If I try to run it under sudo, I get "command not found"
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[20:05:53] <jepler> what is the commandline that starts the installer, and what is the commandline you're using with sudo?
[20:06:10] <andypugh> ./xsetup and sudo ./xsetup
[20:06:49] <andypugh> The former works, but runs out of priviiges. The latter gives "command not found"
[20:06:56] <jepler> darn, I was hoping for an obvious mistake (like not using ./ with sudo) that I could point out
[20:07:15] <jepler> "sudo: ./xsetup: command not found"?
[20:07:31] <andypugh> Yes
[20:08:00] <jepler> Even though it shouldn't make a difference, I'd sudo /full/path/to/xsetup
[20:08:22] <andypugh> I think that the problem is probably the path.
[20:08:32] <andypugh> So I am moving the files.
[20:08:44] <jepler> ./xsetup should not depend on the contents of the PATH variable
[20:09:44] <andypugh> My guess is that it is something to do with network rights.
[20:09:55] <andypugh> The path is "/home/andypugh/.gvfs/cnc\ drop\ on\ cube/Xilinx_ISE_DS_Lin_13.4_O.87xd.3.0/
[20:09:55] <andypugh> ?
[20:10:14] <jepler> oh, it may be the case that root can't access files in .gvfs. I don't understand .gvfs.
[20:10:21] <jepler> it's something added to unix after 1990, so I know nothing about it
[20:10:35] <jepler> if 'sudo ls' gets an error in that directory, then that's probably it
[20:10:41] <andypugh> It makes no sense to me, but is the only way I know to navigate to a mounted network folder.
[20:10:57] <andypugh> And yes, sudo ls did fail earlier :)
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[21:46:34] <dgarr> a segv fix (sim, haltcl or halrun -T) for consideration: http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/0001-halcmd_commands.c-handle-null-prog_name.patch
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[21:49:31] <cradek> dgarr: this led me to perhaps a missing dependency:
[21:49:32] <cradek> $ haltcl
[21:49:33] <cradek> can't find package tclreadline
[21:51:53] <cradek> I wonder if it's always called tclreadline...
[21:53:19] <CIA-96> 03cradek 07v2.5_branch * rb43ee2efd092 10/debian/control.in: add missing dependency for haltcl/halrun -T
[21:53:20] <CIA-96> 03cradek 07v2.5_branch * r74fdb9b31f61 10/src/hal/utils/halcmd_commands.c: halcmd_commands.c: handle null prog_name
[21:53:24] <cradek> thanks dgarr
[21:54:09] <dgarr> 7b8f6d0d3 probably added tclreadline
[21:55:12] <cradek> was I wrong to add it as a runtime dependency?
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[21:57:07] <dgarr> its fine with me since i use it
[21:57:54] <GoSebGo> Seems right to me
[21:58:05] <cradek> thanks for the sanity check
[21:59:53] <dgarr> does anyone understand the manpage for halrun(==halcmd) where it mentions -I? halrun alone and halrun -I seem to do the same thing except for printing help msg?
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[22:03:51] <andypugh> I think that you need the -I if you want to stay in halcmd after running a HAL file
[22:04:11] <andypugh> Let me check:
[22:05:36] <andypugh> Yes, that's how it works. halrun -f p.hal runs p.hal then exits. halrun -I -f p.hal runs p.hal and stays at the halcmd prompt.
[22:07:43] <dgarr> ok, thanks -- its a little confusing if you dont have -f filename in which case it is interactive with halrun and also with halrun -I
[22:08:06] <cradek> it's weird to see a "usage" type message but then also have it keep running, doing something
[22:08:15] <andypugh> The manpage might need a tweak
[22:08:31] <cradek> (I support the default behavior being the interactive prompt)
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[22:21:45] <CIA-96> 03tissf 07v2.5_branch * r9923da1a687d 10/docs/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): French docs: cleaning - fix bad links
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[23:06:21] <andypugh> jepler: On reflection, I think the problem was that shuffling the files around the network had broken the execute bits.
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