#emc-devel | Logs for 2010-12-11

[07:53:47] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[11:55:10] <psha> awallin: i've tried dot for hal schematics and it gives horrible results...
[14:01:38] <mhaberler> psha: ahoi!
[14:02:00] <psha> hi
[14:06:12] <psha> mhaberler: i've played a bit with graphviz...
[14:06:32] <psha> and i really don't find way to draw pretty looking graphcs
[14:06:32] <psha> graphs
[14:07:23] <mhaberler> had a chance to look at the signals thing, and maybe completing hal widgets -> gpin?
[14:08:26] <psha> only tomorrow
[14:08:32] <mhaberler> I think it's really minimal what's missing, and I could update docs and make programs more elegant, and it will wash the dishes too!
[14:08:38] <psha> i've not neigher emc2-sim here nor gcc :)
[14:09:02] <mhaberler> uh, you're really challenged then... ok. I keep drilling this toolchang
[14:09:12] <psha> so playing with some minor things :)
[14:09:12] <mhaberler> e thing
[14:09:31] <psha> it's ok to install graphviz over gprs but not emc2-sim :)
[14:09:45] <mhaberler> ;-)
[14:11:07] <mhaberler> understanding this NML message thing is, uh, challenging
[14:18:49] <psha> logger_dev: bookmark
[14:18:49] <psha> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emcdevel/2010-12-11.txt
[14:25:05] <psha> wow, 240kb/s over mobile phone...
[14:25:27] <psha> they put hdsp capable access point somewhere nearby...
[14:38:32] <SWPadnos> huh. I wonder what happens if there's an abort during M1xx execution?
[14:38:51] <SWPadnos> or a following error
[14:40:56] <psha> depends on M1xx script i think
[14:41:20] <psha> i guess there is no kill involved in M1xx
[14:41:40] <SWPadnos> I mean what happens in EMC. I'm wondering if there's a way to terminate a running M1xx script in the event of an error
[14:42:08] <psha> heh, kill -TERM; sleep 10; kill -KILL
[14:42:28] <SWPadnos> kill --with-children :)
[14:43:07] <psha> huh, kill -CONT too to be picky :)
[14:44:32] <psha> hm, TV is created to create zombies from humans
[14:49:38] <JT-Shop> bet it is like a failed tool change your stuck in limbo
[14:51:06] <SWPadnos> or worse, the M1xx program may still be twiddling HAL bits ...
[14:55:18] <psha> maybe some like -INT will be suitable?
[14:55:45] <psha> if user whant to handle inerrupts it's still possible but most of M1xx commands will be killed
[14:55:50] <SWPadnos> as long as you can kill a whole process tree, maybe
[14:56:00] <SWPadnos> remember that M1xx can spawn other programs
[14:56:03] <psha> yes
[14:56:14] <psha> you have to create process group after fork prior to exec
[14:56:22] <psha> and then hope that M1xx won't create new one :)
[14:56:27] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:57:02] <psha> it's not difficult really
[14:58:19] <psha> but as i mentioned already if m1xx creates another pgroup - no chances :)
[14:58:39] <psha> until cgroups will land in mainline kernel :)
[14:58:58] <SWPadnos> hmm. wasn't that the recent change that generated so much press?
[14:59:12] <SWPadnos> (for better desktop performance and all that stuff)
[14:59:23] <psha> based on cgroups mech
[15:00:00] <SWPadnos> so maybe around 12.04 we'll have an RTAI patch that works well with cgroups ;)
[15:00:23] <psha> :)
[15:01:06] <psha> more interseting cgroups provide way to kill process tree
[15:01:26] <psha> systemd init system is using that feature
[15:02:12] <psha> but i've not inspected that in details :)
[15:02:35] <SWPadnos> me either!
[15:03:04] <SWPadnos> I just got my mothers computer running more or less how I want. man, it's fast
[15:03:14] <SWPadnos> I'm amazed at how quickly it boots
[15:03:22] <psha> i've used pgroups at my work for reliably killing groups of child processes and it works
[15:03:46] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: what operating system?
[15:03:48] <SWPadnos> the Ubuntu graphic startup screen (the one with the dots that light up) sometimes doesn't even appear on the screen
[15:03:51] <SWPadnos> 10.04
[15:03:55] <SWPadnos> Ubuntu, of course :)
[15:04:27] <SWPadnos> it's like 3 seconds or less to the desktop, from the time GRUB decides to actually boot
[15:04:29] <skunkworks> yes - I have said the k&t boots really fast. I think the amount of time that the thing is in the bios splash is about how log the os takes to boot
[15:04:37] <skunkworks> ling
[15:04:39] <skunkworks> long
[15:05:02] <skunkworks> unreal
[15:05:20] <SWPadnos> it's the Crucial SATA 6GB SSD
[15:05:23] <SWPadnos> 6Gb
[15:05:41] <skunkworks> nice - this is just TB hd. iirc
[15:05:44] <SWPadnos> it was fast with a 2TB spinning drive, but the SSD just blows it away
[15:05:51] <skunkworks> neat
[15:06:07] <SWPadnos> I also managed to get a working CUDA installation, which is a first for me :)
[15:06:29] <SWPadnos> now I have to duplicate my efforts on my own machine :)
[15:06:32] <Jymmm> WTF is CUDA? Sounds like a snake or something
[15:06:40] <Jymmm> or a fish
[15:06:46] <skunkworks> car
[15:06:59] <Jymmm> you put a car in your moms computer?
[15:07:08] <SWPadnos> http://tinyurl.com/csj4ym
[15:07:19] <Jymmm> I dont do blind urls
[15:07:27] <SWPadnos> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cuda
[15:07:30] <SWPadnos> prick
[15:07:44] <Jymmm> Bitch, wikipedia doens't help
[15:07:49] <SWPadnos> it should
[15:07:55] <Jymmm> It doesnt
[15:08:04] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA
[15:08:06] <psha> you have some intensive computations?
[15:08:10] <Jymmm> I looked the first time you whined about it
[15:08:32] <SWPadnos> my mother plans to do massive computations, yes
[15:09:07] <Jymmm> ok, so again WTF is cuda?
[15:09:23] <Jymmm> in a nutshell. all I saw was something about nvidia
[15:09:24] <archivist> a car
[15:09:28] <Jymmm> and stopped reading
[15:09:46] <skunkworks> wasn't it the third link down?
[15:09:53] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, that's what it is
[15:10:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: video driver?
[15:10:09] <skunkworks> http://www.nvidia.com/object/what_is_cuda_new.html
[15:10:11] <SWPadnos> it's Nvidia's system for using the GPU for general computing
[15:10:31] <Jymmm> and this is better than multiple cores?
[15:10:38] <skunkworks> psha: wasn't russia hackers using it to break wireless security?
[15:10:40] <SWPadnos> it's multiple cores ^2
[15:10:59] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: what, you installed multiple video cards ?
[15:11:02] <SWPadnos> her card has 448 cores (it's a GTX 480), running at 700MHz+
[15:11:06] <SWPadnos> no, just one good one :)
[15:11:11] <psha> skunkworks: no, russian hackers are breaking wireless security with thermorectal cryptoanalisis
[15:11:15] <SWPadnos> but it could use 4 if I put them in
[15:11:19] <Jymmm> 448 cores?! wth
[15:11:28] <SWPadnos> it's a video card
[15:11:44] <Jymmm> and a GPU has more balls than a cpu?
[15:11:50] <SWPadnos> they all have loads of parallel processors in them, but the newer ones can actually do full double-precision floating point math
[15:11:51] <psha> Jymmm: GPGPU has extremly high 'peak' performance but memory access is not obvious
[15:11:53] <SWPadnos> loads more
[15:12:42] <skunkworks> psha: yeck (I had to google it)
[15:12:57] <Jymmm> FP usage I get. Damn dev's
[15:13:05] <Jymmm> psha: thanks
[15:13:20] <SWPadnos> oops, 480 core
[15:13:22] <SWPadnos> s
[15:13:25] <Jymmm> same diff
[15:14:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: And she knew she needed this how?
[15:14:04] <SWPadnos> does about 1.06 trillion floating ops/sec, or ~530billion double precision
[15:14:12] <SWPadnos> she does math for fun
[15:14:19] <SWPadnos> and programs for fun
[15:14:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: And she *knew* she needed this how?
[15:14:27] <SWPadnos> so this is kind of a combo for her
[15:14:34] <SWPadnos> you ask silly questions
[15:14:39] <psha> also it's SIMD system - you load instruction set to all cores and provide partitioned data to them
[15:14:52] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You opened your big mouth and volunteered to do this didn't you?
[15:14:58] <SWPadnos> she wanted a new computer (to replace the Pentium 133?), and left the details to me ;)
[15:15:09] <Jymmm> lol, sucker
[15:15:18] <SWPadnos> hey, at least I get to play with it
[15:15:31] <SWPadnos> and it'll probably reduce the number of calls I get, since she'll be busy
[15:15:35] <SWPadnos> it's a win-win
[15:15:43] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: lol
[15:15:49] <SWPadnos> bbl. breakfast
[15:35:48] <psha> axis.[0-3].* pins belongs to Axis or somewhere else?
[15:44:04] <psha> mhaberler: http://psha.org.ru/tmp/hal.png
[15:44:31] <psha> oops, large one
[15:45:40] <psha> http://psha.org.ru/tmp/hal.svg
[15:45:42] <psha> this one is smaller
[15:46:53] <psha> i've killed his connection!! :(
[15:49:46] <cradek> psha: axis.N are emc's motion controller
[15:49:57] <cradek> psha: AXIS ui has some pins too, named axisui.*
[15:51:37] <psha> ah, thanks
[16:38:02] <skunkworks> cradek: so - this http://imagebin.ca/img/W9djKuh.png
[16:38:12] <skunkworks> that is 60hz hum
[16:38:43] <skunkworks> 100ms - 6 cycles - 1/(.1/6)=60hz
[16:39:36] <skunkworks> if I did the math right
[16:40:28] <skunkworks> so - I may have some grounding issues.
[16:41:00] <skunkworks> (although it is in the <.0001 error
[16:43:17] <SWPadnos> it looks like 5.5 or so cycles per division to me
[16:43:51] <SWPadnos> yeah, a little under 22 valleys in the rightmost 4 divisions
[16:44:17] <SWPadnos> (you don't count the end one, that's zero)
[16:45:17] <skunkworks> hmm - so not exatly 6?
[16:45:21] <skunkworks> exactly
[16:45:30] <SWPadnos> doesn't look it to me
[16:46:37] <skunkworks> if you count over multible 100ms it is multible of 6
[16:47:05] <SWPadnos> I started with the valley on the right edge as 0, then counted through 4 divisions and got almost 22 additional valleys (since I can see the one on the edge, it's slightly to the left of the end of the division, so I decided to count the one just to the left of the 4th division line)
[16:47:05] <skunkworks> maybe
[16:47:19] <SWPadnos> doesn't look it to me :)
[16:47:23] <skunkworks> heh
[16:47:31] <skunkworks> I think it is way too early
[16:47:35] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:47:40] <SWPadnos> for you, sure
[16:48:35] <skunkworks> :)
[16:50:11] <skunkworks> ok - you are right
[16:50:16] <skunkworks> ;)
[16:50:50] <skunkworks> so my grouding is good - tuning is bad. (although it is a lot better - I don't think it is totally gone)
[16:53:10] <SWPadnos> the peak-peak oscillation looks like about 40-50u
[16:53:41] <SWPadnos> other than the big blip, of course
[16:53:51] <skunkworks> that is acc/decel
[16:54:01] <skunkworks> .00017
[16:54:27] <SWPadnos> you sure? :)
[16:54:40] <SWPadnos> you have it at 200u/division
[16:54:55] <SWPadnos> oh, for the accel/decel part
[16:54:59] <skunkworks> yes
[16:55:34] <SWPadnos> yep, +/- 0.00017-ish
[16:55:57] <SWPadnos> .00034 P-P, which makes the oscillation look even less bad
[16:55:59] <skunkworks> right - I think it could be better - but that is pretty good
[16:56:34] <skunkworks> for a newbie tuner
[17:55:05] <psha> what 'net signal pin' means?
[17:55:15] <psha> pin is connected as input or output to signal?
[17:55:46] <psha> or if i want to connect input pin i have to explicitly tell 'net signal <= pin'?
[17:56:24] <psha> or it depends on pin type?
[18:38:49] <SWPadnos> the symbols <= and => are only for helping humans
[18:40:39] <psha> so if i write 'net signal pin1\nnet signal pin2' i'll get similar result when i swap pin1 and pin2?
[18:43:06] <SWPadnos> yes
[18:43:23] <SWPadnos> net is shorthand for creating a signal of a certain type and connecting one or more pins to it
[18:43:47] <tom3p> if you write net mysig pin1 \n net mysig pin2 yes, its same as net mysig pin2 \n net mysig pin1 , but better yet use net mysig pin1 pin2 , those 2 pins are connected by the conduit 'mysig'
[18:43:49] <SWPadnos> nwe name pin1 pin2 pin3 will create a net called "name" woth the type of pin1, and connect all 3 pins to it
[18:43:58] <SWPadnos> err, s/nwe/net/
[18:44:23] <SWPadnos> it checks first that all the pins exist, have the same type, and there is no more than one writer
[18:44:54] <SWPadnos> if a signal called name already exists, then those pins will be connected to it (assuming that no rules are broken, like multiple writers or different types)
[18:46:06] <psha> i mean that consideration about input/output connection is based on pin type and not on net syntax?
[18:46:29] <SWPadnos> cirrect
[18:46:32] <SWPadnos> argh
[18:46:34] <SWPadnos> correct
[18:46:37] <psha> to clarify a bit my interest - i'm writing .hal to .dot convertor
[18:46:51] <psha> so you may examine your hal setup in image :)
[18:47:01] <SWPadnos> net name out1 in1 in2 in3 is equivalent to net name in1 out1 in2 in3
[18:47:08] <SWPadnos> oh, cool
[18:47:12] <tom3p> woof! how do you get dot object with multiple connections
[18:47:47] <tom3p> (mult connections that dont get tangled )
[18:48:19] <SWPadnos> now, why would a spam title be "Big penis like a girl"?
[18:49:03] <psha> http://psha.org.ru/tmp/nist-lathe.svg
[18:49:22] <psha> graphviz is not suitable for cyclic graphs...
[18:49:57] <tom3p> :( url not found 404, yes i tried graphviz a lot
[18:50:15] <psha> uploaded to incorrect dir :)
[18:50:17] <psha> now's there
[18:50:50] <tom3p> yep
[18:52:14] <psha> heh, if you are confident with graphviz maybe you may tune params?
[18:52:35] <tom3p> cant open with inkscape synfig or imagemagick
[18:53:12] <psha> hm, ok with browser, eog
[18:53:53] <tom3p> no, i had no success making graphic diagrams to hal ( no final, got some done in GEDA and micges did it with ... a closed source eda tool )
[18:55:19] <tom3p> and eog failed here too, but i understand the idea of an inspectable, zoomable, gui representaion of a hal fle , and one that can be translated into a .hal file
[18:56:19] <tom3p> it a great idea, esp for people like me that are myopic, cant see thru a mass of data ( like the emc2 code base :)
[18:57:05] <psha> hm, check again
[18:57:15] <psha> maybe you've catched it in the middle
[18:58:21] <tom3p> yes, haha i just looked at the xml i had gotten, its just the error msg in xml format, now is fine ( and BIG )
[18:58:40] <psha> yes...
[18:58:51] <psha> i'm trying to tune params but without any success :)
[19:00:05] <tom3p> pretty, i can see it now ( had to zoom way back) what do you mean by tune params?
[19:01:48] <tom3p> garphviz parms? what would you change on the svg you posted?
[19:02:06] <psha> yes, graphviz params
[19:02:59] <psha> how to ask it to fit into some reasonable resolution :)
[19:03:50] <psha> <svg width="4645pt" height="2719pt"
[19:03:54] <psha> it's a bit large one :)
[19:04:39] <tom3p> i will now try the ZGRViewer for zoomable (its SVG so the browsers are >supposed< to handle ^+ ^- )
[19:05:03] <tom3p> it = your file (not ZGRViewer)
[19:05:32] <psha> i view it just with browser )
[19:06:41] <tom3p> does teh browser handle the wwc specs for svg? can you zoom?
[19:07:19] <tom3p> try ^+ and ^- in firefox
[19:07:58] <tom3p> ffox namaroka 3.16.3pre
[19:08:00] <psha> partial
[19:08:15] <tom3p> ? not enough zoom level?
[19:08:56] <psha> yes :) it's chromium (core of google-chrome)
[19:09:01] <tom3p> often opera was better at svg
[19:10:12] <psha> limited to 50%
[19:11:44] <tom3p> i just noticed ^mousewheel zooms too, yes the smallest render is often still too big ( i think thats what you mean ) and vs:vs the largest may not allow the detail you like.
[19:13:03] <tom3p> the 'myopic' problem strikes again, you cant see the chip when viewing the machine, you cant see the spindle when viewing the button on the control panel.
[19:13:05] <tom3p> some is the viewing tool and some is just difference of magnitudes.
[19:14:22] <tom3p> i wanted to highlight nets, that allows the view size to be less important, you could scroll around looking for the ends of the net with the visual clue of a highlight
[19:15:09] <psha> all edges may be drawn in own color :)
[19:15:47] <tom3p> or the widget in imagemagick that shows a thumbnail with a rectangle over it. field of view vs whole image ( where you are in the overall view )
[19:17:49] <tom3p> 'all edges may be drawn in own color' i think you have to find the edges & nodes connected to the net and change some visual attribute ( color width line type)
[19:18:18] <tom3p> micges did some nice work with same idea in eagle
[19:19:31] <psha> i suspect it's not simple to check which 'edge' was selected...
[19:20:01] <psha> it's simple to draw svg with cairo surface but i don't know how to get feedback
[19:24:32] <psha> yes, eda tools looks suitable for hal schematics
[19:24:39] <psha> it's simple schematics :)
[19:27:58] <tom3p> is this of any use? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?HalSchematicsUsingGschem
[19:28:33] <psha> yes, i've seen that page
[19:29:23] <tom3p> iirc i never got good dragging, and was my code was very kludgy with the threads etc
[19:32:54] <tom3p> im trying tintfu right now, but its a java app ( java has always been iffy for me ) i need some dot files to test with
[19:33:57] <psha> graphviz dot files?
[19:34:57] <psha> there is nist-lathe.dot near .svg file
[19:35:03] <psha> just replace extension
[19:36:42] <tom3p> well tintfu blew up on 1st simple .dot file from wikipedia
[19:36:53] <psha> :)
[19:52:00] <psha> tom3p: if you wish to take a look onto hal -> dot conversion script it's on http://psha.org.ru/cgit/psha/haldot.git/
[19:53:30] <tom3p> ok avoid tinfu, the fiels open with dotty just fine, but tinfu tries to make each word in the comments a node :( http://imagebin.org/127457 http://imagebin.org/127458
[19:53:49] <tom3p> thanks i will
[19:55:48] <psha> oops
[19:55:49] <psha> it's not cgit but git
[19:56:10] <psha> but cgit works too )
[19:57:16] <tom3p> git got it ok
[19:57:54] <psha> usage is simple: ./parsehal.py < halfile > dotfile
[20:11:36] <tom3p> not what i expected, not a real .dot file, heres the terminal session and a cat of the output http://pastebin.com/HcvcMeiN
[20:12:24] <psha> it's valid dot file i think, what's wrong?
[20:12:58] <tom3p> i meant doty cant render it for me (blank screen )
[20:13:36] <tom3p> oops! scale hits again! its ok
[20:14:09] <psha> feed it to dot -Tsvg to get svg image
[20:14:09] <psha> look in Makefile for example
[20:14:32] <tom3p> i dragged those sliders a long ways and saw nothing, but it was really there
[20:18:36] <psha> that's what i was talking about
[20:18:45] <psha> too large...
[20:19:13] <psha> if you force 'size="x,y"' in graph header you'll get bad results too
[20:22:49] <psha> i'll have to go now
[20:23:01] <psha> if you'll get some results - catch me tomorrow
[20:23:07] <tom3p> thx, bye
[20:23:13] <psha> but i think it's better to stick with geda...
[20:29:21] <tom3p> btw 'dot -Tsvg largeHal.dot >largeHal.svg' is what worked for me and it renders ok in eog
[20:29:24] <tom3p> but i dont think eog is showing svg ( blurry pixelated at hi zoom )
[20:29:33] <tom3p> and in ffox it stays crisp
[20:29:45] <tom3p> l8r, thx
[20:37:42] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[21:49:15] <mhaberler_> mhaberler_ is now known as mhaberler
[22:09:54] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[22:12:45] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[22:17:37] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos