#emc-devel | Logs for 2010-07-02

[00:01:37] <jepler> somebody should figure out what to do about AXIS and its bogus limit warning
[00:01:56] <jepler> maybe just jettison it and add a button to do the real emc "verify" instead
[00:02:10] <jepler> which as far as I know gets that kind of thing right
[00:24:10] <cradek> jepler: we could have that by going back in time
[01:18:49] <CIA-2> EMC: 03cradek 07master * r3a0f18682bb6 10/lib/python/rs274/glcanon.py: add tool offset to the BIG DRO
[01:19:03] <cradek> there you have it, but I'm afraid this is beginning to get silly
[03:58:46] <elson> can anyone give me some quick help so I can commit a change through git? I think I am to the point where I need to have the ssh key set up. Thanks.
[04:01:04] <elson> Hmmm, I must be too much of a night owl!
[13:02:23] <JT-Hardinge> OH MY this is nice! Thanks cradek for adding the tool offset to the DRO tab
[13:03:18] <JT-Hardinge> All I have to do is look at that tab and if I crash it is really my fault :)
[13:24:51] <cradek> haha whose fault was it before?
[13:26:42] <JT-Work> mine lol
[13:26:53] <cradek> oh ok, just checking!
[13:27:37] <JT-Work> I'm not bashful about admitting I screwed up :)
[17:08:03] <dgarr> for consideration: http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/0001-task-add-alive-bit.patch
[17:12:14] <cradek> looks useful but I don't feel qualified to review it
[17:12:35] <cradek> bbl, lunch
[18:44:49] <jepler> what criteria should cam packages added to our wiki have? The latest addition is a .EXE-format program without source. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=browse&diff=1&id=Cam&revision=132&diffrevision=129
[18:46:03] <cradek> I wondered the same thing (but silently to myself)
[18:46:42] <cradek> I downloaded it, but could not find a license statement.
[18:49:43] <micges> It should be on list if it's usefull
[18:50:39] <cradek> I think that is too general to be a useful rule - can you explain what you mean further?
[18:51:16] <jepler> I'm not sure I agree that every 'useful' cam package should be listed on that page. For me, a much more useful page would list only applications that run on Linux and call out clearly those which are Free software.
[18:52:31] <cradek> running on linux is a consideration - the app targeting emc2's ngc specifically is a consideration - Free software is a consideration
[18:52:31] <cradek> I don't know how to rank those
[18:53:04] <cradek> near the top of the page it says the table is "EMC-compatible"
[18:54:10] <micges> what if it is closed source payable software compatible with emc?
[18:54:31] <cradek> I agree that is one of the questions at hand
[18:57:42] <Jymmm> Well, what about AutoCAD, SolidWorks, and their CAM counterparts. Could they be on the list?
[18:57:51] <cradek> I agree that is one of the questions at hand
[19:00:59] <jepler> I think it would be in keeping with the Linux, Free Software nature of emc2 to give top billing to Free Software that runs on Linux, and less or no billing to commercial software and software that runs only on Windows.
[19:01:41] <jepler> People who want AutoCAD for Windows 7 know where to find it (on bittorrent, I suppose)
[19:02:10] <cradek> I guess if I look there, I want to find Free + runs on linux. Even if a piece of software doesn't specifically target emc2 (what!?) I would easily fix that
[19:02:26] <cradek> I notice that's entirely opposite what the existing page header says
[19:02:42] <SWPadnos> a column should be added which tells whether the package runs on Linux
[19:02:47] <cradek> "runs on linux" is fuzzy now because my-command-line-turbo-pascal-program.exe will run perfectly fine
[19:02:54] <SWPadnos> maybe with a comment if it works OK in wine
[19:03:11] <SWPadnos> (vs being native0
[19:03:13] <SWPadnos> )
[19:03:58] <jepler> well, for now I changed NCCL from saying "Free" to saying "no cost" and noted that it is a "(Windows .EXE)" (I didn't try to run it in wine)
[19:04:23] <cradek> it appeared to be a dos program actually
[19:04:31] <jepler> windows, DOS, watever :-P
[19:05:12] <jepler> $ file NCCL.exe
[19:05:13] <jepler> NCCL.exe: PE32 executable for MS Windows (console) Intel 80386 32-bit
[19:05:20] <cradek> er ok
[19:05:36] <Jymmm> I think anything EMC related as opposed to linux/OSS/FOSS would be good. It gives resource options to those that need it.
[19:07:14] <cradek> Jymmm: what specifically do you think it means for a piece of software to be EMC related?
[19:39:31] <KimK> I was going to vote for listing anything and everything (because it *all* could be useful information to *someone*), but categorizing it maybe something like: (1) runs on linux (free/open), (2) runs on linux (commercial/paid/freebutstrangelicense), (3) runs on windows/mac/other (free/open), (4) runs on windows/mac/other (commercial/paid/freebutstrangelicense) But...
[19:40:08] <jepler> there are lots of web pages for listing
[19:40:12] <jepler> software
[19:40:58] <jepler> for instance, there's probably a much better list of windows cam packages somewhere (though I don't know where it is)
[19:43:14] <KimK> ...But then I went and looked at this latest entry NCCL which links to exegenia which links to http://www.cncsimulator.com/ and now I'm not so sure. This "CNC Simulator" may be "free" (as in beer) but apparently you have to periodically go to a "petrol station" and get a code which you paste into the app so it will run a while longer. And even for "free as in beer", that sjust reeks of bait-and-switch in the future to me. SO now I'm not so sure what adv
[19:43:14] <KimK> ice I want to give. I have to think about this some more. that
[19:44:16] <KimK> that --> "". (Sorry, I was done, forget the last "that")
[19:44:45] <cradek> "petrol station" -> what!?
[19:45:34] <KimK> http://www.cncsimulator.com/?page=petrolstation3.htm
[19:45:45] <cradek> yeah that's quite lovely
[19:45:58] <cradek> a very creative solution to the, uh, problem (?)
[19:47:31] <KimK> Anyway, when I first started reading back on this thread I was perfectly willing to include windows, mac, commercial, whatever. Sure, I thought, why not? Then I saw the "petrol station". Now I'm not so sure.
[19:48:18] <KimK> I have to think about this more. A lot more.
[19:53:36] <KimK> * KimK wonders if paying $1 a thousand times is any different from paying $1000 once...
[19:54:05] <cradek> at least you can stop as soon as you come to your senses
[19:56:51] <cradek> thanks for finding the petrol station. that really helps me be sure about wanting it to be Free-as-in-speech only. (actually I don't care so much about platform.)
[19:57:07] <cradek> it's fine to host emc posts for commercial softwares too IMO - just on a different page.
[19:57:44] <Jymmm> cradek: why?
[19:58:51] <Jymmm> cradek: You commercial software racist bastard! We done away with segregation years ago! LOL
[19:58:59] <cradek> Jymmm: because, I guess, for me, Free-as-in-speech is the most important consideration.
[20:00:14] <cradek> I can definitely understand that others would have other preferences
[20:00:17] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[20:00:35] <Jymmm> Just by using linux, I think that's implied. The only reason for listing commericial stuff at all is that there is no good FOSS stuff (imo)
[20:00:59] <cradek> I've tried virtually none of what's listed on that page
[20:01:19] <cradek> in particular I think inkscape has some good things available and currently working
[20:01:24] <Jymmm> I'd just like a single resource to see what's all available to me, not multiple sections/pages
[20:01:27] <cradek> I've heard good things about heeks (if you can get it to run)
[20:01:34] <Jymmm> heh
[20:01:59] <Jymmm> multiple pages is just getting political in a sense.
[20:02:27] <Jymmm> I hate politics, just let me get what I need without the BS
[20:02:35] <cradek> so you think the petrol-station software (for example) shouldn't be segregated?
[20:02:48] <cradek> well frankly I think the petrol-station IS the BS
[20:02:57] <jepler> for me, the BS *is* the petrol-station software
[20:03:06] <cradek> yeah, what he says
[20:03:11] <jepler> what cradek said..
[20:03:28] <Jymmm> I wouldn't include it just becasue of the BS you have to go thru to use it. I wouldn't want to toss that on someone else.
[20:03:41] <Jymmm> the ehadaches that is
[20:03:47] <Jymmm> headaches
[20:04:10] <cradek> now I'm struggling to not become a jerk and point out your inconsistencies :-)
[20:04:13] <cradek> I'm going to go get some coffee :-)
[20:04:49] <jepler> I'm going to do the same after I issue one more sarcastic statement
[20:05:01] <Jymmm> you have to go to a gas station to get a code?! Even M$ isn't THAT bad.
[20:05:12] <jepler> if you're using emc there can be only two reasons: you're too cheap to pay for *anything* or you are some kind of free software bigot.
[20:05:31] <cradek> Jymmm: they don't call it that, but they require that you check in with them too...
[20:05:38] <jepler> Jymmm: 14:45:34 <KimK> http://www.cncsimulator.com/?page=petrolstation3.htm
[20:05:59] <cradek> jepler: what
[20:06:00] <jepler> ... will be mailed a link to a page showing a code, this code should be copied into the CncSimulator petrol dialog ...
[20:06:07] <Jymmm> cradek: I REFUSE to use *ANY software that "calls home" free/commerical or otherwise.
[20:06:18] <jepler> cradek: that was my last sarcastic statement before getting coffee
[20:07:20] <Jymmm> jepler: Eh, then use mailinator and share the code with everyone =)
[20:10:12] <Jymmm> http://www.mailinator.com/displayemail.jsp?email=petro&msgid=13161398
[20:15:45] <Jymmm> cradek: If you want to bastardize commercial/funky stuff I don't have a problem with that, just make it on a single page at the bottom.
[20:17:05] <KimK> Jymmm: do you mean a separate table at the bottom of the page?
[20:18:30] <Jymmm> KimK: I just don't like having to hit 30,000 pages to find something. When it could easily all be listed on a single page.
[20:53:38] <KimK> Jymmm: Oh, OK, I think we're both talking about the same thing: one page with everything on it, in chapters/groups/tables/something. I was thinking about that earlier, I thought it might be nice if we could click table headings to sort (fwd/rev) by name, OS, CAD/CAM/other?, license etc. (but that might be beyond our wiki's capabilities?)
[20:55:25] <SWPadnos> there should be CSS code (or something similar) that allows sorting by column
[20:55:57] <SWPadnos> if you look at the wikipedia pages about Guitar Hero - the ones with song lists - I think those columns are sortable
[20:56:36] <KimK> OK, thanks, SWP, I'll look into it
[20:56:43] <SWPadnos> I don't know if it's possible to stick "raw" HTML in a wiki page though, so I'm not sure if it's possible to use (CSS, javascript) with the current wiki
[20:57:18] <KimK> Yeah, I thought there might be a data base lurking in the background there somewhere, lol
[20:57:31] <SWPadnos> yeah, there is
[20:57:51] <SWPadnos> we have considered using something more advanced, like Mediawiki, but as you can see we haven't done that :)
[20:58:21] <jepler> SWPadnos: I bet our wiki doesn't have fancy sortable table support built in
[20:58:31] <SWPadnos> no, I'm sure it doesn't
[20:58:50] <KimK> Well, I'm sure we have bigger fish to fry, so I withdraw my remark ;)
[20:59:24] <SWPadnos> feel free to look into it if you like :)
[21:03:02] <Jymmm> KimK: Yeah, that sounds nice.
[21:03:53] <Jymmm> I have some php code I wrote to do just that, but it's a MySql backend
[21:20:16] <SWPadnos> this appears to work nicely: http://www.kryogenix.org/code/browser/sorttable/
[21:20:28] <SWPadnos> but I don't know how to get the wiki code to emit the right HTML for it
[21:20:53] <SWPadnos> or how to make it so that a wiki editor can use some of the extended attributes
[23:33:18] <KimK> I'm back on software (ranting?) again. (So tune out if you like.) Earlier there was a link posted (on #emc) to "OpenRP", which sounds, well, open? (Beware the dot-com I guess?) Anyway, it turns out that it's "open", except they won't reveal the source code or the file format (!?) Says it's due to "encryption"(?) See http://www.openrp.com/ (last comment on that page). And http://www.openrp.org/ has been grabbed by a domain farmer. Fortunately I don't
[23:33:19] <KimK> need any of their stuff, but I hate to see that blinking neon sign "OPEN", only to be disappointed. OK, I'm done ranting again (until next time, lol).
[23:40:51] <andypugh> The dynos at work are run on by a package called "Puma Open". It isn't, not at all. They even charge you £6000 per year per installation to use the DCOM interface.
[23:40:53] <andypugh> http://www.avl.com/wo/webobsession.servlet.go/encoded/YXBwPWJjbXMmcGFnZT12aWV3JiZub2RlaWQ9NDAwMDEzMDg4.html
[23:41:25] <andypugh> Their definition of "Open" is "Of course, PUMA Open stays open, meaning that the customer can always upgrade his package and thus achieve greater functionality."