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[02:18:48] <mozmck> yuck, lucid (ubuntu 10.04) puts the window buttons on the left.
[02:24:56] <SWPadnos> by default
[02:25:10] <SWPadnos> it's just as possible to change it in lucid as it was before
[02:29:32] <mozmck> yeah, I did already, but there's no option in a GUI for it - so it's not easy for a lot of folks
[03:08:41] <cradek> yeah that's a great big "huh??" isn't it
[03:10:05] <cradek> I don't care what they do with the default theme - having it look "new" every time is important (I suppose) but to change all the more traditional themes too is bordering on user-hostile
[03:11:56] <mozmck> yeah, just one more thing for people to have to get used to - or figure out how to change.
[03:12:21] <mozmck> maybe they will include an easy way to change it by the actual release
[03:13:17] <cradek> yeah I think/hope they will too.
[03:13:33] <mozmck> Hopefully I'll have EMC2 running on 10.04 beta1 in the next few days. we'll see if I have time and how smoothly the compiles go.
[03:13:44] <cradek> that would be extremely cool
[03:14:12] <mozmck> I've got it (10.04) installed on one computer now and it went smoothly.
[03:14:17] <cradek> I'm just starting to play with b1. like it or not I'm going to be stuck with it for a while, so I'm diving in.
[03:14:26] <mozmck> yep, me too.
[03:14:48] <cradek> me too - just one so far. the nvidia driver install made X crash - not a good start.
[03:15:11] <cradek> in both the alphas, installing the nvidia driver (by clicking in the gui) would uninstall all of X... so it's better I guess.
[03:15:23] <mozmck> hmm, I haven't tried that one yet. I need to figure out how to make a virtual machine on this computer.
[03:16:07] <mozmck> you using noveau or the nvidia driver?
[03:16:11] <cradek> have you found good docs for making a custom cd?
[03:16:32] <mozmck> pretty good it seems. I made one with 9.10.
[03:16:41] <cradek> the nvidia proprietary - I have dozens of programmers using those cards
[03:17:11] <mozmck> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[03:17:19] <cradek> thanks
[03:17:22] <mozmck> I basically used the steps there.
[03:17:33] <mozmck> plus a little help from some other places.
[03:17:59] <SWPadnos> they say you can't use the proprietary nvidia drivers yet, because there's a new way of having multiple versions available to use, which they aren't compatible with
[03:18:01] <mozmck> I have nvidia on this machine.
[03:18:30] <SWPadnos> and ATI is borked as well, so for both of them you have to use the open source versions (with no 3D acceleration, for the most part)
[03:18:32] <cradek> ok, if they're busted for everyone, no problem, I'll ignore it
[03:19:18] <mozmck> getting late - good night
[03:19:37] <cradek> 'night
[03:19:49] <SWPadnos> oh. that's why I'm tired
[03:19:55] <SWPadnos> night :)
[13:45:57] <cradek> what is it lately with people not being able to figure out how to set the scale in truetype-tracer's output? The fifth line of the output says "#3=0.0003 (Scale)" among all the other configurable parameters.
[13:47:45] <SWPadnos> maybe it's the same thing that makes people unable to figure out how to reverse the motion of an axis
[13:47:56] <SWPadnos> (even though there are like 6 ways to do it)
[13:48:03] <cradek> yeah that's a pretty common question too
[13:48:16] <cradek> how to use touch off
[13:48:33] <cradek> which way positive travels are
[13:48:47] <cradek> sometimes it seems like all questions have already been asked (and answered) many times
[13:48:48] <SWPadnos> maybe we should have a FAQ with all these answers :)
[13:49:17] <SWPadnos> with a direct link from the front page of linuxcnc.org
[13:50:15] <cradek> if I ever think that yet another set of documentation at yet another location is the answer to something, please shoot me
[13:50:26] <SWPadnos> bang!
[13:50:28] <SWPadnos> oops
[13:50:55] <cradek> if we get it down to about 10 words, we can use comic sans and print it really big on bright pink paper and put it in the box with the software
[13:51:10] <SWPadnos> yeah
[13:51:18] <SWPadnos> dark green print on bright pink paper
[13:51:49] <cradek> the irs says if you file a fraudulent return, you should keep the records indefinitely
[13:54:01] <SWPadnos> that's very definitive of them
[13:54:16] <SWPadnos> you're also supposed to report all illegally gotten gains
[14:39:32] <cradek> It seems like Slavko is hoping to use software step generation through his EPP board. that can't work can it? isn't it way too slow?
[14:40:34] <SWPadnos> it should work OK, but the number of I and O ports will have to be small I think
[14:41:01] <JT-Work> any way to link FAQ's to the existing documentation?
[14:41:02] <SWPadnos> 3 each might be OK, but it will be a ~20 us data exchange
[14:41:24] <SWPadnos> JT-Work, how do you mean?
[14:41:37] <cradek> if I wanted that I'd copy the scheme that several folks seem to be using: to multiplex and do the IOs every second or third cycle
[14:42:16] <cradek> doesn't pmdx have one of those? or was it someone else?
[14:42:34] <SWPadnos> that kind of doesn't matter - you still would have a maximum exchange of XX microseconds on the cycles where you do the full I/O update
[14:42:49] <SWPadnos> yes, PMDX has one that multiplexes 2 ports, but not using EPP
[14:42:57] <cradek> right that's what I meant
[14:43:02] <SWPadnos> you just output a high or low on one bit to select the port
[14:43:04] <cradek> EPP is a distraction here
[14:43:09] <SWPadnos> kind of
[14:43:22] <cradek> you want some output pins unaffected so you can put step pulses on them directly
[14:43:23] <SWPadnos> though it does help for the case where you have more than a couple of ports
[14:43:57] <cradek> brb
[14:44:04] <SWPadnos> the other way to do a slower update is to read/write only two ports each time: the "fast port" and one of the others
[14:44:32] <SWPadnos> so all the ports are updated every N-1 executions of the base thread
[14:44:40] <SWPadnos> and the time to execute is deterministic
[14:44:50] <SWPadnos> (and the same every time)
[14:46:05] <SWPadnos> oh, I bet you need EPP to get bidirectional support on the data lines
[14:46:15] <SWPadnos> so you can do reads and writes
[14:48:52] <JT-Work> just thinking out loud but if there was a FAQ with questions and a link to a html document page for the answers...
[14:49:16] <SWPadnos> it's hard to know what form the information has to be in for people to understand it
[14:49:48] <SWPadnos> I don't know if it's explicitly stated in the manual that e.g. you can use a negative scale to reverse axis direction
[14:53:15] <JT-Work> I'm pretty sure that is not in there, but it could be...
[14:53:47] <JT-Work> getting people to understand it is the hard part
[14:54:09] <SWPadnos> one of these days I'll finish the work of finding all the ini settings and putting together a document that tells what they are (int or float, max/min values, recommended values, description, etc)
[14:54:24] <SWPadnos> I had done some grepping through the source a while back
[14:54:43] <SWPadnos> most of that's already in the manual though, so I haven't been feeling like it's critical :)
[15:03:26] <JT-Work> I've come across a few things that I need to add/clarify in the manual while setting up the Hardinge
[15:03:37] <JT-Work> but have not had time to cross them off my list
[15:51:33] <alex_joni> it's the weekend everyone ;)