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[13:01:57] <CIA-2> EMC: 03jthornton 07v2.4_branch * rcb0d7c80f22c 10/docs/src/common/User_Concepts.lyx: fix thinking in inches error
[16:37:49] <cradek> another bunch of yahoo users just got unsubscribed from the emc list
[16:46:10] <cradek> if you use yahoo, I recommend you complain and/or stop using them
[16:51:55] <skunkworks> what is up with yahoo?
[16:58:13] <cradek> probably what happens is this: some yahoo users subscribe to mailing lists. they decide they don't want the emails anymore. they're not very bright so they don't unsubscribe - instead they just do whatever you do in yahoo mail to mark them as spam and make them go away. now yahoo is not very bright so decides sourceforge is a spammer. they start bouncing all mail from sourceforge. sourceforge says yahoo is busted and unsubscribes everyone.
[16:59:03] <cradek> it's hard to know who to blame, but the answer for users is obvious - get a real email account if you don't want people screwing up your mail
[17:00:20] <cradek> if you use yahoo mail you trust other yahoo mail users to decide what spam is for you
[17:00:58] <SWPadnos> conversely, if you use sourceforge, you trust everyone from your ISP to decide what is spam for you ...
[17:01:36] <cradek> I don't follow that one
[17:02:02] <cradek> sf is right to stop sending mails to addresses that bounce them
[17:02:55] <SWPadnos> well, if SF is disabling an entire domain based on some percentage of mails being bounced (or whatever the actual mechanism), then everyone is dependent on all their "ISP-mates" to behave well
[17:03:18] <cradek> no, they're unsubscribing individual addresses that are bouncing
[17:03:19] <SWPadnos> so a bunch of idiots from sover.net could cause me to be block-deleted from the list
[17:03:28] <cradek> no I don't think so
[17:03:52] <cradek> I only notice that they're all yahoo addresses that are individually being unsubscribed for excessive bounces
[17:04:01] <SWPadnos> ah, ok. I inferred that a bunch of users got dropped because of what *other* yahoo users did
[17:04:19] <cradek> read my long-winded description again
[17:04:27] <cradek> (if it didn't get cut off)
[17:04:37] <SWPadnos> "if you use yahoo mail you trust other yahoo mail users to decide what spam is for you"
[17:04:53] <cradek> yes yahoo decided to bounce all mails from sourceforge
[17:04:59] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[17:05:00] <cradek> I assume because of what a few yahoo users clicked on
[17:05:17] <cradek> the not-very-bright ones who didn't figure how to unsubscribe
[17:06:30] <cradek> I guess if yahoo users don't realize they are setting yahoo policy by clicking on stuff, it's hard to blame them
[17:06:35] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:06:36] <cradek> they just want the messages to go away
[17:07:26] <cradek> the mistaken assumption is made by yahoo (all users want (and don't want) similar emails)
[17:07:53] <SWPadnos> based on data from another mistaken assumption, which is that their users know what they're doing
[17:08:17] <cradek> well each user knows which emails he wants and doesn't want
[17:08:27] <cradek> he clicks whatever thing he needs to accomplish this
[17:09:26] <cradek> free email accounts suck and I'm sorry people are going that way
[17:09:42] <cradek> ISPs used to have to provide reasonable email service - now they just don't bother
[17:09:59] <cradek> before that, ISPs used to have to provide reasonable usenet service
[17:10:16] <cradek> but now I'm just whining
[17:10:31] <SWPadnos> yeah. I'm amazed that my ISP actually has a mailbox limit, and it's only 10M
[17:11:02] <cradek> heh, fuck the users, they'll switch to gmail and we won't have to bother anymore.
[17:11:20] <cradek> they don't know any better anyway
[17:11:30] <SWPadnos> probably, now that they've been bought out by a large national ISP
[17:11:37] <cradek> besides, who uses email - just send everything through facebook
[17:11:38] <SWPadnos> I have a 4 digit account number there
[17:30:22] <alex_joni> cradek: I'm sure you were just joking, but I read an article lately that email will die out in favour of facebook and other similar crap
[17:32:11] <cradek> I wasn't joking - that's obviously the trend
[17:33:20] <cradek> the more personal communication those sites can harvest, the better their models of each person get
[17:35:07] <cradek> facebook is getting all the consumer/relationship/communication data of an entire generation, and they own it to do with as they see fit
[17:36:01] <cradek> also if you're in the US you might start wondering when they'll be "too big to fail"
[17:37:16] <alex_joni> hopefully soon
[17:37:49] <alex_joni> one interesting concept to replace email is wave from google, but I don't think email will die so soon (just like faxes are still used)
[17:44:50] <alex_joni> mozmck, mozmck_work1: around?
[17:47:26] <mozmck> at home for lunch right now
[17:47:31] <mozmck> what's up?
[17:50:36] <mozmck> alex_joni: you around still?
[17:50:55] <alex_joni> yup
[17:51:00] <alex_joni> nothing urgent though
[17:51:21] <alex_joni> just a quick not on the RTAI mailing list that 2.6.31 should probably forgotten for RTAI apps
[17:51:36] <alex_joni> 2.6.32.7 should be ok again (stability wise)
[17:53:02] <mozmck> ah! that may be why numbers of folks are having trouble with it not booting - some even compiling their own vanilla kernel.
[17:53:08] <mozmck> with rtai patches...
[17:54:29] <alex_joni> mozmck: paolo's guess was that maybe some irq stuff was forgotten from the patches
[17:54:51] <mozmck> ah. did you email him about that?
[17:55:39] <alex_joni> no, there was a user asking for help
[17:57:52] <mozmck> I have looked at the mailing list for a couple days...
[17:59:33] <mozmck> have not that is...
[17:59:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni reads irc typo just fine
[18:00:05] <mozmck> :)
[18:01:50] <mozmck> The one guy on the forum said he tried 2.36.x vanilla and had the same problem. I have one computer that's doing similarly. black screen and no booting with any rtai patches.
[18:02:41] <mozmck> bbl - lunch
[18:03:51] <alex_joni> 2.36.x doesn't make sense.. 2.6.31.x does
[18:25:23] <mozmck> uh, 2.6.32.x
[18:34:57] <alex_joni> right