#emc-devel | Logs for 2008-12-11

[00:50:11] <SWPadnos> oh, and of course there's the problem of completing things like -i <*.ini>
[02:49:24] <seb_kuzminsky> hola'migos
[02:49:42] <SWPadnos> howdy
[02:56:01] <jepler> evening
[03:00:32] <seb_kuzminsky> hrm
[03:00:39] <SWPadnos> howdy
[03:03:02] <jmkasunich> greetings earthlings
[03:03:26] <seb_kuzminsky> welcome to our planet
[03:03:33] <SWPadnos> who you calling an earthling?
[03:03:57] <jmkasunich> I don't like this planet, it's too cold
[03:04:01] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:04:08] <SWPadnos> quite a change of weather today
[03:04:20] <seb_kuzminsky> do you two have the same weather?
[03:04:29] <SWPadnos> the snow we had melted overnight, and it was raining this morning - maybe 40 degrees or higher
[03:04:36] <skunkworks> heh - actually 27deg here..
[03:04:39] <SWPadnos> usually I get his weather a day later or thereabouts
[03:04:52] <jmkasunich> we (Cleveland OH) had high 40s, maybe even 50 yesterday, high 20s today
[03:04:59] <SWPadnos> well, then it went down 20 degrees or more in 2 hours, and the rain turned into snowfall
[03:05:24] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm in boulder, colorado - we had our first real snow a few days ago
[03:05:33] <SWPadnos> it's now around 20 here, and we're supposed to get a storm, maybe a noreaster, around Friday
[03:06:47] <jmkasunich> one more day of work, then off till Jan 5
[03:06:54] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich does a happy dance
[03:07:00] <seb_kuzminsky> we expect great things, jmk
[03:07:03] <seb_kuzminsky> ;-)
[03:07:08] <SWPadnos> nice!
[03:07:12] <skunkworks> very nice :)
[03:07:20] <SWPadnos> gotta use up that vacation or lose it, huh?
[03:07:29] <jmkasunich> yep
[03:07:52] <SWPadnos> more power to you then :)
[03:10:40] <skunkworks> That should be just enough time to get your 5 axis gantry running...
[03:10:55] <skunkworks> *made and running
[03:11:03] <jmkasunich> lol
[03:11:05] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:12:07] <jmkasunich> definition of "mixed feelings" - getting a nice sized order, and then realizing that I'll probably spend a chunk of my vacation working on it
[03:12:38] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:12:45] <skunkworks> more carb stuff?
[03:12:49] <jmkasunich> no
[03:12:49] <SWPadnos> MAX_VELOCITY = 20 :)
[03:13:13] <jmkasunich> a while back I made some test jigs for a couple labs
[03:13:39] <jmkasunich> then another lab wanted some, and either I was too expensive, too slow, or something, so they had a third party make them
[03:13:56] <seb_kuzminsky> what do you charge for machining? if you dont mind
[03:14:06] <jmkasunich> the result was horrible - they should take that guy's machining license away
[03:14:13] <jmkasunich> so they're paying me to repair them
[03:14:41] <jmkasunich> seb_kuzminsky: I don't really have a specific rate, and don't do normal machining - I'd have a very hard time competing on piecework type stuff
[03:14:59] <jmkasunich> in this case, I helped to design a jig that wound up in some ansi or other standard
[03:15:06] <jmkasunich> so I'm the leading supplier of jigs
[03:15:11] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[03:15:30] <seb_kuzminsky> brb
[03:15:31] <jmkasunich> I think the world marked for such jigs is about 15, and I've made about 12 over the last 5 years
[03:15:38] <jmkasunich> market
[03:16:17] <SWPadnos> let
[03:16:25] <SWPadnos> let's hope some break :)
[03:16:33] <jmkasunich> let's not
[03:18:10] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:18:54] <jmkasunich> my jigs are the standard cause they are build like a BSH
[03:19:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:21:26] <jmkasunich> uh-oh, there's two of them!
[03:22:21] <jmkasunich> that just reminded me of something my ex-wife's grandmother said about her son (her father): If he was twins I would have drowned one of them"
[03:22:39] <garage_seb> hey seb_kuzminsky, if we had another garage we could fork again!
[03:22:51] <jmkasunich> "her son (her father)" - that makes a lot of sense doesn't it?
[03:23:07] <jmkasunich> damned pronouns
[03:23:14] <garage_seb> jmkasunich: a complicated relationship, obviuously
[03:23:20] <garage_seb> terrible accident with a time machine
[03:25:50] <SWPadnos> read the short story "By His Bootstraps" for a good chuckle
[03:26:06] <SWPadnos> I think it's by Heinlein, but it could be Asimov
[03:26:29] <garage_seb> did you read "the man who folded himself"?
[03:26:35] <jmkasunich> I think I've read that (bootstraps)
[03:26:35] <garage_seb> forget the author
[03:26:40] <SWPadnos> no, I don't think so
[03:34:37] <jmkasunich> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Folded_Himself
[03:34:41] <jmkasunich> the net knows all
[03:34:52] <SWPadnos> yep. just read that page :)
[03:34:54] <jmkasunich> that page also confirms that bootstraps is heinlein
[03:35:01] <SWPadnos> I'm on to the description of "All You Zombies" now :)
[03:35:03] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:38:24] <jmkasunich> heh, I've read that one, although I didn't remember the title
[03:39:15] <SWPadnos> strangely, I missed that one
[03:39:20] <SWPadnos> and I've read a lot of Heinlein
[03:39:53] <jmkasunich> I think it read it in an anthology of time-travel stories, rather than in an Heinlein collection
[03:40:09] <SWPadnos> hmm. ok
[03:40:29] <SWPadnos> I probably have one or two anthologies of that sort - I'll have to look for it
[03:40:35] <SWPadnos> then again, I know how it ends now :)
[03:41:08] <garage_seb> have i mentioned yet today that i like halscope?
[03:43:05] <SWPadnos> hmmm. let me check the logs
[03:43:13] <SWPadnos> no, I don't think so
[03:43:23] <garage_seb> how do i love thee? let me count the log entries
[03:43:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:44:40] <garage_seb> appropos time-travel stories: marooned in realtime
[03:46:22] <SWPadnos> and of course "The Peace War", which comes before it
[03:46:53] <garage_seb> :-)
[03:47:00] <SWPadnos> and there's a short story about the policeman as well (can't remember his name or the name of the story :) )
[03:47:10] <garage_seb> possibly my favourite short novels of all time
[03:47:14] <SWPadnos> there's a book with all 3 called "Across Realtime"
[03:47:21] <garage_seb> "the ungoverned"
[03:47:22] <SWPadnos> yeah, they're excellent
[03:47:24] <SWPadnos> right
[03:47:54] <SWPadnos> not time travel, but have you read "Ender's Game"?
[03:48:08] <garage_seb> did you read A Fire Upon the Deep and Deepness in the Sky too?
[03:48:12] <SWPadnos> yepo
[03:48:14] <SWPadnos> -o
[03:48:34] <garage_seb> i read enders game a while ago - definately one of Card's best
[03:48:50] <SWPadnos> yeah. I think it's one of the top 5 books of all time actually
[03:50:25] <garage_seb> "the blabber"?
[03:50:34] <SWPadnos> ?
[03:52:39] <garage_seb> it's a short set in the Zones of Thought universe, he's rewriting it as a sequel to AFUtD
[03:53:20] <SWPadnos> oh, interesting
[03:53:30] <SWPadnos> I guess I should start going to book stores again
[03:53:38] <SWPadnos> but it's probably better for my finances if I don't :)
[03:53:47] <garage_seb> and your emc2 productivity ;-)
[03:53:53] <SWPadnos> nah, nothing can help that ;)
[03:56:46] <garage_seb> grr, "current" is a symbol in the linux kernel sources
[03:56:51] <garage_seb> so you can't name anything that
[03:56:53] <garage_seb> pretty annoying
[03:56:55] <SWPadnos> yep, the current task
[03:57:42] <garage_seb> hmmm... "current_task", what a great name!
[03:58:07] <SWPadnos> too long!
[04:00:01] <garage_seb> they should have just called it "c"
[04:00:06] <garage_seb> that's short
[04:00:15] <SWPadnos> but that's the language, silly
[04:06:10] <jmkasunich> any pythons about?
[04:06:18] <SWPadnos> sssssssssssss
[04:06:20] <jmkasunich> looking for the equivalent of break
[04:06:27] <jmkasunich> for line in file:
[04:06:31] <jmkasunich> test-for-stuff
[04:06:37] <jmkasunich> if stuff found:
[04:06:46] <jmkasunich> done with file, don't want to process the rest
[04:07:10] <SWPadnos> how about break?
[04:08:36] <jmkasunich> looks like that works
[04:08:48] <SWPadnos> just like C: http://www.network-theory.co.uk/docs/pytut/breakandcontinueStatements.html
[04:20:01] <jmkasunich> well, I'm now autogenerating all the input files for the synthesis step
[04:20:15] <jmkasunich> time to actually invoke the tool from python and see what blows up
[04:21:03] <SWPadnos> cool
[04:43:29] <jmkasunich> cool - seems to have worked
[04:44:08] <jmkasunich> I only ran the synthesis step, but the remaining steps are more of the same
[04:44:16] <jmkasunich> need to put a bit of error handling in there
[04:45:47] <SWPadnos> nice
[04:51:39] <jmkasunich> interesting - when I ctrl-C the synthesis tool, my python resumes control, and prints an error message, which winds up BEFORE the last several lines of output from the synthesis tool
[04:51:48] <jmkasunich> had me scratching my head for a minute....
[04:51:56] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:46:35] <CIA-42> EMC: 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/firmware/src/ (4 files): first steps toward automating FPGA firmware builds
[05:47:39] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: jepler: if you get a chance, could you cvs up and then try "spec2bit.py SVST8_4_5i20.spec" on your systems?
[05:47:46] <SWPadnos> yep
[05:47:59] <jmkasunich> I'm interested in both linux and doze results, with various versions of the xilinx toolchain
[05:48:10] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[05:48:26] <SWPadnos> it'll be a little while. different PCs for CVS, ISE, and EMC :)
[05:48:39] <jmkasunich> don't feel any need to do it tonight, I'm about to quit anyway
[05:49:04] <SWPadnos> yep. me too. good work there
[05:50:11] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[05:50:28] <SWPadnos> see ya
[06:19:12] <seb_kuzminsky> jmkasunich: cool!
[06:19:21] <seb_kuzminsky> * seb_kuzminsky kicks CIA-42
[06:19:21] <CIA-42> ow
[07:47:36] <garage_seb> ok, i made encoder velocity estimation not be limited to 65 ms, it's now totally up to the user how long to wait for another encoder edge
[07:47:52] <garage_seb> well, it will be once i make that variable a hal parameter, for now it's hidden inside the driver
[07:48:08] <garage_seb> pics here again: http://highlab.com/~seb/emc2/
[07:48:17] <garage_seb> goodnight
[07:56:44] <seb_kuzminsky> lazy garage_seb get back to work
[08:01:02] <CIA-42> EMC: 03seb 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/ (TODO encoder.c hostmot2.h):
[08:01:02] <CIA-42> EMC: Better low-speed encoder velocity estimation.
[08:01:02] <CIA-42> EMC: The "timeout" for waiting for the next encoder edge is now unconstrained
[08:01:02] <CIA-42> EMC: by the FPGA's 65 millisecond rollover, though i havent exported this as
[08:01:02] <CIA-42> EMC: a HAL parameter yet.
[08:01:05] <CIA-42> EMC: Also: Misc internal cleanups.
[12:43:18] <BigJohnT> can someone change the driver type drop down box in stepconf.glade from Gecko to Gecko G201 as the timing is different on different models
[12:44:00] <BigJohnT> I changed it here but cvs diff did not show it so I assumed that I did not know all I didn't know about it
[12:57:50] <jepler> jmkasunich: it seemed to work on both linux (92i) and windows (10.2); I sent you a little more info in private message
[12:58:45] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: what file did you change?
[12:59:09] <BigJohnT> I changed the stepconf.glade file and tested it
[12:59:17] <BigJohnT> and to my suprise it worked
[12:59:19] <BigJohnT> here
[13:02:36] <CIA-42> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/config/stepconf.lyx: add info on drive timing
[13:10:24] <jepler> for a reason I can't fathom, redirection in cmd.exe makes xst hang (go for minutes with 0% CPU usage in task manager)
[13:20:36] <jepler> .. for an equally unfathomable reason, it seems to work when using redirection in msys terminal and bash.exe
[13:21:52] <jepler> full log from linux: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandox/spec2bit-on-linux-xilinx92i.txt full log from windows: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandox/spec2bit-on-winxp-with-msys-xilinx102.txt
[13:53:56] <CIA-42> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/stepconf.lyx: add info on drive timing
[14:40:28] <skunkworks_> I did not know http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=537602&postcount=21
[14:42:22] <cradek> heck.
[15:03:48] <alex_joni> bummer :/
[15:04:50] <skunkworks_> yes - I was trying to figure out why big<tab> wasn't working until I notice he had quit.
[15:24:05] <alex_joni> man.. mach3 is one big POS
[15:24:44] <skunkworks_> like this http://imagebin.ca/img/CTkv0T.png
[15:24:52] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: ?
[15:25:02] <skunkworks_> (not like that I hope)
[15:25:08] <skunkworks_> ;)
[15:25:33] <skunkworks_> wow - that is funny. (almost quote worthy)
[16:04:57] <jepler> "check my pid values"?>
[18:23:01] <skunkworks_> barak obama - it's not who you know - it's what you know. (TM) What a great idea :)
[18:26:40] <skunkworks_> I figure by next year I should be spelling his name right..
[18:26:50] <SWPadnos> yeah, right :)
[18:59:16] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: tried actually running it
[18:59:26] <alex_joni> it's awful, I can't explain why people like it
[18:59:44] <alex_joni> for once if you push estop on the GUI it unloads the loaded program, so you need to load it again
[18:59:49] <alex_joni> * alex_joni shudders
[19:02:54] <skunkworks_> odd
[19:03:08] <SWPadnos> you might as well unload the program if, by definition, you will lose position and have to re-reference the machine :)
[19:03:31] <SWPadnos> I mean, it doesn't help, but it doesn't hurt much either
[19:06:57] <alex_joni> why unload?
[19:07:12] <alex_joni> I understand resetting the interpreter, and rewinding it back to the first line
[19:07:18] <alex_joni> but unloading it is odd imp
[19:07:19] <alex_joni> imo
[19:07:28] <SWPadnos> sure
[19:23:37] <SWPadnos> heh, cool: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330252914453
[19:24:10] <SWPadnos> this guy was asking $3000 for this thing before, then he reduced it to $1299 I think, now $750 (but no best offer option)
[19:25:28] <SWPadnos> cradek, do you happen to know the sizes of allen wrench needed to get that end cap off or turn the screw on your lathe?
[19:26:50] <cradek> no, but they are all english sizes
[19:27:12] <SWPadnos> ok - so a standard set should have them, no giant ones or anything?
[19:27:22] <cradek> right, a basic english set will have what you need
[19:27:30] <SWPadnos> cool, thanks
[19:28:39] <cradek> also take something to pry with - the covers might still be sealed with gasket glue goop
[19:28:52] <SWPadnos> RTV or just the oil of the ages? :)
[19:29:06] <cradek> although probably not the ones on the screws, since you have to open them to crank it off the limit switches
[19:29:20] <SWPadnos> oh, that's annoying
[19:29:22] <cradek> they are/were all sealed with permatex (?)
[19:29:26] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:31:14] <cradek> not sure how much testing you are doing - but be aware the control won't come up without air pressure
[19:31:25] <cradek> that was a bit of a surprise for me
[19:32:01] <SWPadnos> I don't know if JMK will be able to plug it in
[19:32:14] <cradek> ah, one at HGR?
[19:32:16] <SWPadnos> yep
[19:32:20] <cradek> he sure won't have power then
[19:32:22] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:32:50] <SWPadnos> it's still for sale, and at $799 it's probably a good deal if the screws move and it's not too gooey with sludge
[19:33:14] <SWPadnos> what size motors are on yours?
[19:33:58] <cradek> spindle is 2HP, axis motors are the originals, I don't know their ratings
[19:34:03] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:34:25] <cradek> they are about 4" diameter I think - they seem small for how powerful they are
[19:34:27] <SWPadnos> I bet the motors in that "Unique Writing machine" I linked to would do it
[19:34:44] <SWPadnos> they're 200W Yaskawa AC servos
[19:34:46] <SWPadnos> err, 100W
[19:35:18] <SWPadnos> I can't even begin to budge the 50W ones I have, so the 100;
[19:35:28] <SWPadnos> 100's should work nicely (if the motors on the lathe are bad)
[19:35:56] <cradek> the motor mounts have a complex oilproof setup sealed with O rings - you will have to do a lot of tedious reengineering to change the motors.
[19:36:38] <SWPadnos> is the mounting complexity on the motor or the machine? (ie, is it a standard motor that attaches to a complex mount)
[19:37:08] <cradek> one seal is a plate with a circular hole with an internal O ring that seals around the body of the motor itself
[19:37:37] <cradek> also, the wiring comes out the shaft end of the motor so it's all inside the machine
[19:37:42] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[19:37:54] <cradek> err I think
[19:37:57] <cradek> no, maybe not
[19:38:07] <cradek> I don't remember how the wires go, but it ends up inside
[19:38:20] <SWPadnos> do they look like standard NEMA 42's ?
[19:38:42] <cradek> I don't know - they're round, they have a square flange with four holes
[19:38:49] <SWPadnos> oh, hmmm. if there's a bug complex mount they may need a longer shaft than normal
[19:38:58] <SWPadnos> ok, flange type was my next question :)
[19:39:06] <SWPadnos> s/bug/big/
[19:39:23] <cradek> I bet the shaft sticks out about 2"
[19:39:32] <SWPadnos> ok, that's normal
[19:39:47] <SWPadnos> it should look familiar: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=21-211-041
[19:39:48] <cradek> pulley with one split dowel pin
[19:40:01] <cradek> yep
[19:40:11] <SWPadnos> oh interesting - they use a dowel pin instead of a key?
[19:40:19] <SWPadnos> or as a key
[19:40:25] <cradek> yes pretty sure it's only a pin
[19:40:32] <SWPadnos> interesting
[19:40:36] <cradek> iirc, shaft is plain with a hole through it
[19:40:58] <SWPadnos> people say that keyways are bad for CNC because of the frequent reversals. I wonder if that's meant to absorb a little bit of that load
[19:40:59] <cradek> make sure the collet closer is on it ... would suck to have to find one I bet
[19:41:16] <SWPadnos> ok, I'll let JMK know :)
[19:41:21] <cradek> if so, it doesn't work -- on Z, I had to replace the pin, as it let the pulley turn a bit on the shaft
[19:41:47] <SWPadnos> it may have worked for longer than a key, but who knows
[19:41:50] <cradek> the bridgeport clamping collet thing seems very good to me - but complex
[19:42:10] <SWPadnos> actually, there's a chuck on this one (from the photo)
[19:42:20] <cradek> yeah that's nice
[19:42:35] <cradek> hmmmm, strangely I think it's not screwed onto the nose
[19:42:45] <cradek> maybe it's a 5C mount chuck?? seems too big for that though.
[19:42:49] <SWPadnos> I can't see it well enough to tell if it's an air chuck, but I suspect it isn't (because the diameter of the "base" of the chuck seems too small)
[19:42:55] <SWPadnos> yeah, dunno
[19:45:24] <SWPadnos> heh: http://www.cnc-machine-controls.com/CHNC.htm
[19:45:38] <SWPadnos> "pay no attention to the forklift behind the curtain"
[19:50:58] <SWPadnos> oh hmm. that could be an air-actuated chuck. the actuator would have to fit within the 5C diameter anyway
[19:59:20] <skunkworks_> are you talking about this http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/smallservo.JPG
[20:00:27] <SWPadnos> not that I know of :)
[20:00:39] <SWPadnos> is that from an HNC?
[20:01:01] <alex_joni> <snip>KandT<more snip>
[20:01:39] <skunkworks_> I think that is a servo from an hnc
[20:01:57] <skunkworks_> I may have been confused about what you guys where talking about earlier.
[20:07:58] <SWPadnos> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=21-211-041
[20:08:06] <SWPadnos> and this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330252914453
[20:08:21] <SWPadnos> wondering if the small AC servos would fit on the HNC
[20:08:33] <SWPadnos> probably not, though they may be powerful/fast enough to use
[20:09:39] <cradek> yes sam's motor looks about right
[20:14:16] <SWPadnos> ok, so the flange is set back like that?
[20:14:54] <cradek> yeah I think it's just like that
[20:15:03] <cradek> (it's been a few months since I had one out...)
[20:15:11] <SWPadnos> good for you :)
[20:15:26] <cradek> the wires do come out the front, and I recall the brushes couldn't be replaced without completely taking the motor out
[20:16:53] <cradek> ick, the centroid lathe pendant assumes tool on top/back - it would be backward for this machine
[20:22:02] <SWPadnos> oh. they mention that the servos are 17 in-lb
[23:27:56] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: I'm free!
[23:28:05] <jmkasunich> and planning an HGR trip tomorrow
[23:29:29] <jmkasunich> fooooood
[23:39:21] <SWPadnos> yay!