#emc-devel | Logs for 2008-12-04

[00:00:31] <SWPadnos> ok, pin 1 goes to 4.4V with the G540 disconnected
[00:00:40] <SWPadnos> src/hal/user_comps/
[00:01:16] <CIA-42> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/Master_Integrator.lyx: add AXIS special comments
[00:01:20] <CIA-42> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gui/axis.lyx: add AXIS special comments
[00:02:12] <BigJohnT> only subdirectory I didn't look in :/
[00:02:44] <BigJohnT> got it
[00:03:03] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:03:14] <SWPadnos> userspace components ;)
[00:15:19] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: is there a default rate for gs2
[00:15:22] <BigJohnT> ?
[00:15:30] <SWPadnos> default update rate?
[00:15:52] <BigJohnT> for the baud rate
[00:16:00] <SWPadnos> I should add docs on the pins and parameters, shouldn't I? :)
[00:16:09] <SWPadnos> yes, I think it defaults to 38400
[00:16:15] <SWPadnos> it's in the comment I think
[00:16:20] <BigJohnT> I'm working on the docs from your comments
[00:16:38] <SWPadnos> thanks
[00:16:47] <SWPadnos> it is there in parentheses
[00:18:02] <BigJohnT> hmm missed it
[00:23:52] <SWPadnos> if you can stick in sections with the pins and params, I'll fill in the description of what they do
[00:25:29] <CIA-42> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/drivers/GS2.lyx: add gs2 driver to manual... thanks for the work SWP
[00:26:18] <CIA-42> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/Master_Integrator.lyx: add gs2 driver
[00:26:30] <BigJohnT> ok
[00:28:23] <SWPadnos> thanks
[00:28:30] <CIA-42> EMC: 03swpadnos 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/user_comps/gs2_vfd.c: add usage print for --help or -h option, or on unrecognized option
[00:34:01] <SWPadnos> oh, that's in the manual
[00:34:07] <SWPadnos> here I was looking for a manpage ;)
[00:37:22] <CIA-42> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/drivers/GS2.lyx: add pins and parameters to gs2 I think...
[00:37:57] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT is going upstairs to kick back
[01:00:41] <SWPadnos> hmmm. now if only I could edit that lyx on 8.04 :/
[01:02:07] <BigJohnT> nope
[01:02:26] <BigJohnT> you have to use a text editor if you have 8.04
[01:02:47] <BigJohnT> or email me the info
[01:03:03] <BigJohnT> or pastebin...
[01:04:42] <SWPadnos> I'd try to edit on the 6.06 machine, but it's painfully slow
[01:04:51] <SWPadnos> takes like 30 seconds for a terminal to open
[01:05:15] <BigJohnT> just email me the text file or something
[01:05:32] <SWPadnos> ok. I'll make something up and send/pastebin it
[01:05:36] <SWPadnos> thanks again
[01:05:46] <BigJohnT> ok thanks for the driver
[01:05:58] <SWPadnos> then again, I'm not sure I remember exactly what all the status pins mean
[01:06:13] <BigJohnT> so did I guess the pins correctly?
[01:06:49] <BigJohnT> do you have my email address
[01:07:24] <SWPadnos> I think the names are right - lemme check (my laptop development system is on 8.04, so I may have build-docs disabled)
[01:07:30] <SWPadnos> I'm sure I can find it :)
[01:12:32] <SWPadnos> huh. so which .pdf do things in Master_Integrator.lyx end up?
[01:13:14] <BigJohnT> the Integrator Manual
[01:13:46] <SWPadnos> and that should be in docs/ after a build with docs?
[01:13:58] <BigJohnT> yes
[01:14:12] <SWPadnos> ok. well I don't have that
[01:14:18] <SWPadnos> I do have the other 4 though
[01:15:03] <BigJohnT> did you get an error while building?
[01:16:12] <SWPadnos> the build didn't end with an error, though there were a couple of "interesting" messages
[01:16:22] <SWPadnos> they were in relation to Master_User.lyx though
[01:16:33] <SWPadnos> (looks like a failed CVS merge actually)
[01:17:04] <BigJohnT> sometimes you have to do a make clean...
[01:18:43] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure why, but Master_User.lyx had a CVS conflict - I got no errors once I fixed that
[01:19:08] <SWPadnos> I just did make clean and it's doing the make now, so we'll see if I get an integrator manual
[01:19:20] <BigJohnT> ok
[01:20:01] <SWPadnos> nope
[01:20:20] <BigJohnT> hmmm
[01:21:06] <BigJohnT> did you get a good cvs update
[01:23:27] <SWPadnos> interesting
[01:23:34] <SWPadnos> yes, I'm sure I did
[01:24:10] <BigJohnT> hmmm I'm short on ideas then...
[01:25:14] <SWPadnos> I also have no Getting Started doc
[01:31:00] <BigJohnT> I've gone as far as a fresh download to cure weird things
[01:34:07] <SWPadnos> I could do that, just in the docs dir
[01:43:27] <CIA-42> EMC: 03swpadnos 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/changelog: note addition of gs2 MODBUS driver
[01:48:08] <SWPadnos> hey BigJohnT, could you check in docs/src/hal/basic_hal.lyx?
[01:50:53] <BigJohnT> I'm upstairs right now... on the wifes laptop
[01:50:59] <SWPadnos> ok
[01:51:12] <BigJohnT> are you seeing a problem with it?
[01:51:29] <SWPadnos> I finally looked into the "failed to remake makefile" mesasge, and using make --debug=b,m tells me that that file is missing
[01:51:36] <BigJohnT> I thought I checked it in...
[01:51:40] <SWPadnos> but it's needed for Master_Integrator
[01:51:57] <SWPadnos> I don't see anything with the word "basic" on the cvs commit list
[01:52:05] <BigJohnT> carp wait a moment or three I'll run downstairs and commit it
[01:52:09] <SWPadnos> ok, thanks
[02:00:31] <CIA-42> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/basic_hal.lyx: add file
[02:04:10] <SWPadnos> thanks :)
[02:04:43] <SWPadnos> that seems to have allowed a whole lot of stuff to get built, including master_integrator, getting started, all the french .pdfs, and html docs
[02:04:49] <BigJohnT> that should fix it :)
[02:05:10] <SWPadnos> sure did
[02:05:27] <BigJohnT> when it dies I think it just gives up
[02:05:43] <SWPadnos> yes, but sadly it doesn't seem to give you an error
[02:05:51] <SWPadnos> at least, not all the time
[02:06:21] <BigJohnT> yea, that has caused me to pull out some hair... good thing I have plenty
[02:06:27] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:09:35] <SWPadnos> well, now I have to guess at what all those pins and params are. hmmm
[02:09:44] <BigJohnT> LOL
[02:09:52] <BigJohnT> give it your best shot
[02:10:20] <SWPadnos> I now remember that the VFD is programmed by telling it the nameplate frequency and RPM, and you give it a frequency in 0.1Hz increments to set the speed
[02:10:59] <BigJohnT> from the motor?
[02:11:03] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure most of the other stuff is just feedback - actual voltage (when it's in constant torque mode), actual output frequency (which can be converted to speed)
[02:11:05] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:11:09] <SWPadnos> well, from the VFD, not the motor
[02:11:18] <SWPadnos> it's not encoder-like by any means
[02:11:50] <SWPadnos> in theory, with 3-phase induction motors, the motor should be moving at a known speed if the VFD is putputting a known frequency
[02:11:58] <SWPadnos> I'm not positive that's true in practice
[02:12:23] <BigJohnT> I'll let you know in a few days...
[02:13:20] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:13:28] <SWPadnos> I'm sure some of this is in the manual
[02:13:48] <SWPadnos> I just checked, and I do have a nice 1/2 HP motor sitting in the garage
[02:13:52] <SWPadnos> it may even work
[02:13:54] <BigJohnT> the gs2 manual?
[02:14:24] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:14:29] <BigJohnT> ok
[02:14:49] <BigJohnT> it will be on line too
[02:15:31] <SWPadnos> yep. I'm sure I have it on my laptop also, or I wouldn't have been able to figure it out in the first place
[02:16:34] <SWPadnos> other than the power ranges (and higher voltage options on the GS2), I wonder what the difference is between a GS2 and a GS1
[02:16:39] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: nitpick, but the frequency/speed relationship for an induction motor isn't very exact
[02:16:45] <jmkasunich> slip varies as a function of load
[02:16:48] <SWPadnos> the G1 does have MODBUS also
[02:17:19] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich, right - that's why I wasn't so sure the freq:speed ratio is actually a constant
[02:17:27] <BigJohnT> http://web3.automationdirect.com/static/manuals/gs2m/gs2m.html
[02:17:27] <SWPadnos> now I guess I'm sure it isn't ;)
[02:17:42] <SWPadnos> I'm looking at the GS1 version right now :)
[02:17:45] <jmkasunich> synchronous speed is exactly frequency divided by some integer
[02:17:50] <SWPadnos> (substitute a 1 for the two 2s)
[02:18:11] <jmkasunich> but the motor doesn't run at sync speed unless truly zero torque ( including bearing friction and windage)
[02:18:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:18:20] <SWPadnos> fat chance
[02:19:04] <jmkasunich> file a couple flats on the sides of the rotor and it probably will drop into sync at light loads
[02:19:40] <SWPadnos> I guess my idea there was that an encoder or tach is more reliable speed feedback
[02:19:46] <jmkasunich> yep
[02:19:59] <jmkasunich> the drive doesn't have "speed feedback"
[02:20:06] <jmkasunich> at least not the way I'd define the term
[02:20:15] <SWPadnos> no, it has "output Hz"
[02:20:27] <SWPadnos> which may or may not be identical to what's commanded, based on accel parameters in the drive
[02:20:54] <jmkasunich> some drives will do slip compensation, increase the output Hz by their estimate of the slip, so you get roughtly the speed you ask for
[02:21:11] <SWPadnos> ok, based on current output?
[02:21:20] <SWPadnos> (as a measure of load torque)
[02:21:25] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:21:29] <SWPadnos> cool
[02:21:41] <jmkasunich> it is based on motor data
[02:22:13] <jmkasunich> if nameplate amps is 7.5, and nameplate RPM is 1780, they assume there is 20 RPM slip at 7.5A
[02:22:28] <SWPadnos> these VFDs get the nameplate speed and nameplate frequency from the motor, so it's possible they do some of that estimation
[02:22:46] <jmkasunich> usually it can be enabled/disabled
[02:23:01] <jmkasunich> if not, the drive probably doesn't have comp at all
[02:24:29] <SWPadnos> I don't remember really - I'll make a note if I see it in the manual
[02:24:49] <jmkasunich> it is never really that accurate anyway
[02:25:03] <jmkasunich> slip vs. torque varies with rotor temperature, among other things
[02:25:33] <BigJohnT> goodnight
[02:25:38] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[02:25:52] <SWPadnos> see you
[02:37:47] <SWPadnos> huh. the GS2 says it has PID
[02:38:03] <SWPadnos> the GS2 has: "All of the features of our GS1 AC drives plus dynamic braking, PID and a removable keypad "
[05:08:47] <skunkworks___> yikes - I should go to bed
[06:11:05] <CIA-42> EMC: 03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/ (protocol_modbus_master.h config_gtk.c): Fix display of S32 in/out pin count. Switch back to one MODBUS i/o page. I made the two page deal too complicated/hacky to debug problems -16 requests should be plenty anyways...
[06:19:49] <CIA-42> EMC: 03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/files.c: Cleanup file a bit..
[11:52:22] <Unas> hi there. please direct me how to enter the gui under 8.04 LiveCD if it didn't logged in automatically? :(
[11:52:50] <Unas> what username and pass should be?
[12:50:18] <CIA-42> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/basic_hal.lyx: add more info
[12:51:01] <CIA-42> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/ (Submakefile docs.xml index.tmpl): add basic hal to the html
[13:03:51] <CIA-42> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/basic_hal.lyx: add file
[13:05:35] <CIA-42> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/ (Master_Integrator.lyx Submakefile docs.xml index.tmpl): add basic hal
[14:34:10] <micges> Is there any ideas to include perpendicularity correction into emc? (it is very simmilar to screw compensation)
[14:36:06] <alex_joni> can you explain it a bit more?
[14:38:03] <jepler> if X and Y aren't perpendicular, then you can correct for it by commanding motor position Y' = Y + m*X, where m is a number that represents the skewness between X and Y.
[14:38:38] <micges> jepler: right
[14:38:52] <jepler> I'd be happy to see someone add it to emc
[14:40:15] <micges> jepler: there is one problem
[14:40:36] <micges> we have to enable and disable it in homing
[14:41:22] <cradek> that is not a problem since kinematics are not used during homing
[14:43:48] <micges> whe is it enabled then ? after final_move ?
[14:44:10] <cradek> when you enter teleop mode
[14:52:41] <alex_joni> when the $ comes into play :)
[14:53:08] <alex_joni> micges: you can easily correct this in kinematics
[14:53:37] <alex_joni> if Z isn't perpendicular on the XY plane, and you want to drill holes, then you have a problem
[14:53:44] <alex_joni> don't think you can correct that :)
[14:54:13] <micges> I want to correct XY plane only
[14:54:29] <alex_joni> ok, you can do that probably easy using kinematics
[14:55:47] <BigJohnT> morning guys
[14:55:59] <alex_joni> you'd think so
[14:55:59] <micges> hi
[14:57:10] <BigJohnT> can someone take a gander at this to see if I got it all correct http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_basic_hal.html
[14:58:13] <alex_joni> This section is under construction at the moment ...
[14:58:53] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: "he command "net" creates a "connection" between a signal and a pin."
[14:59:03] <alex_joni> it's actually a signal and one or more than one pins.
[14:59:51] <BigJohnT> ok
[15:01:16] <BigJohnT> other than that it looks ok?
[15:05:06] <alex_joni> "The command "setp" sets a pin or parameter. Some components have parameters that need to be set before use." -> "The command "setp" sets the implicit value of a pin or parameter. Parameters can be altered before use or during running of a system (for example PID setup parameters that might be changed during tuning procedures)."
[15:05:08] <cradek> I think 'loadusr or2' is a bad example because that's a realtime component
[15:05:27] <alex_joni> 'loadusr halui' might be a better example
[15:05:37] <cradek> hal_input, hal_joystick, halscope, ...
[15:05:48] <alex_joni> yeah.. halmeter is even better
[15:06:09] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: I think these things have a slighlty better explanation in the HAL tutorial
[15:06:14] <cradek> I like the original description of setp better than alex's
[15:06:18] <alex_joni> (even if few people actually read that)
[15:06:35] <alex_joni> cradek: I somehow agree, but I don't think it's correct
[15:06:46] <cradek> you might add "you can only use setp on a pin if it's not connected to a signal"
[15:06:59] <BigJohnT> but it is hard to find anything in the HAL tutorial
[15:07:07] <BigJohnT> ok
[15:07:23] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: the point of the tutorial is to read it not find stuff in it ;) </joke>
[15:07:24] <cradek> hmm, I forgot about the tutorial. I wonder if it needs improvement, instead of starting a new document
[15:07:36] <BigJohnT> what would be a good example of loadusr?
[15:07:43] <cradek> BigJohnT: halmeter
[15:07:48] <BigJohnT> ok
[15:07:57] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_tutorial.html#sec:Tutorial%20-%20Simple%20Example
[15:08:59] <alex_joni> the HAL tutorial might cover things outside of emc2 at first glance
[15:09:02] <cradek> 32769 float OUT 1.00000e+00 siggen.0.square
[15:09:14] <cradek> this is really old - I'm sure it says "1" now
[15:09:19] <alex_joni> but they might be usefull to the reader to understand how it works
[15:09:45] <alex_joni> and halscope looks a bit better than: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html//halscope-demo-6.png
[15:11:26] <BigJohnT> my target with this is the many who don't want to know how HAL works but want to add a line or two to a HAL file
[15:12:29] <cradek> I agree that is probably a big group
[15:13:10] <cradek> jmk's approach in the hal tut was right for someone who is learning how to use a standalone hal, where you have to make threads etc. almost no emc user has to make threads.
[15:13:27] <cradek> they DO need to know that they probably have two, and one is fast and one is slow, and you cover that
[15:15:45] <alex_joni> * alex_joni runs home
[15:15:46] <alex_joni> bbl
[15:15:53] <BigJohnT> see you later
[15:15:58] <alex_joni> in a bit ;)
[15:16:42] <BigJohnT> thanks for all the feed back guys
[15:17:00] <alex_joni> err.. maybe not, I remembered I wanted to work some more :)
[15:18:24] <BigJohnT> so you can't load a real time component into user space?
[15:18:40] <cradek> nope
[15:19:00] <alex_joni> unless you compiled for sim
[15:19:11] <alex_joni> but even then it's not really user space..
[15:19:21] <BigJohnT> ok, I don't want to confuse them
[15:19:23] <alex_joni> it still runs when attached to a thread
[15:19:33] <alex_joni> loadrt is for RT components
[15:19:39] <alex_joni> loadusr for user space
[15:24:51] <cradek> HAL modules should not use underscores or “MixedCase”.
[15:24:59] <cradek> ...
[15:25:04] <cradek> (float) bit_weight -- The value of one least significant bit (LSB). This is effectively the granularity of the input reading.
[15:25:09] <cradek> (float) hw_offset -- The value present on the input when 0 volts is applied to the input pin(s).
[15:25:21] <alex_joni> pins are allowed to
[15:25:44] <alex_joni> but hal_parport & co ... should also be valid
[15:25:58] <cradek> these are params specified
[15:26:26] <alex_joni> I think pins and params are supposed to have "_" in them
[15:26:47] <cradek> I think that is incorrect
[15:26:53] <jepler> axis.0.motor-pos-fb
[15:26:56] <cradek> Dots (“.”) separate levels of the heirarchy. This is analogous to the slash (“/”) in a filename.
[15:26:59] <cradek> Hypens (“-”) separate words or fields in the same level of the heirarchy.
[15:27:02] <cradek> HAL modules should not use underscores or “MixedCase”. 1
[15:27:45] <cradek> and the encoder spec is missing x4-mode
[15:27:50] <alex_joni> footnote 1: Underscores have all been removed, but there are still a few instances of mixed case, for example .pid.0.Pgain. instead of .pid.0.p-gain.
[15:27:53] <cradek> I thought we added that
[15:28:25] <cradek> alex_joni: I probably wasn't clear. I'm proposing that the hal reference is self-contradictory because it requires some param names which are "spelled wrong"
[15:28:45] <cradek> this is not about existing stuff, it's the recommendations in the spec for new stuff
[15:29:11] <alex_joni> cradek: right, I understood that
[15:29:29] <alex_joni> so it's probably only a forgotten fix for the recommendations
[15:29:54] <cradek> yeah
[15:36:42] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT goes off to hold a customers hand :/
[15:37:13] <alex_joni> heh
[15:37:22] <alex_joni> what kind of customers do you have?
[16:35:41] <seb_kuzminsky> oi
[16:35:50] <SWPadnos> ai
[16:36:46] <alex_joni> oy
[16:56:34] <SWPadnos> so, I finally figured out what I was doing wrong with the G540
[16:56:49] <SWPadnos> it's really really important to invert the step outputs
[16:59:52] <seb_kuzminsky> SWPadnos: the g540 is active low?
[16:59:57] <SWPadnos> steps are
[17:00:21] <SWPadnos> the G540 has optoisolators which invert the signal, and the G251 is active high
[17:00:28] <SWPadnos> err, rising edge triggered
[17:01:21] <SWPadnos> I'll test again, but I think I was able to use 1000 for all 4 timing parameters (steplen, stepspace, dirsetup, dirhold)
[17:01:21] <alex_joni> cool
[17:01:32] <alex_joni> test from a 5i20 then
[17:01:39] <SWPadnos> yeah. on that GOAL3+ board, I can do ~75ksteps/second easily
[17:01:56] <SWPadnos> not bad for a $60 motherboard/CPU/memory combination :)
[17:02:03] <alex_joni> yup
[17:02:05] <SWPadnos> (except for the video disturbances :) )
[17:02:09] <alex_joni> what's BASE_PERIOD ?
[17:02:15] <alex_joni> throw a 20$ GPU in there :)
[17:02:21] <SWPadnos> I'll have to look at it
[17:02:32] <alex_joni> this is using double step?
[17:02:36] <alex_joni> e.g. stepconf config?
[17:02:47] <SWPadnos> heh, yeah - NewEgg has the Geforce 9500GT 1GB on sale for $40 afterrebate :)
[17:02:53] <SWPadnos> stepconf
[17:03:21] <SWPadnos> I need to experiment with "moving" the file - maybe make some changes to stepconf if necessary
[17:04:09] <alex_joni> agp or pci-x ?
[17:04:29] <alex_joni> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187048
[17:04:31] <SWPadnos> PCie 2.0 x16
[17:04:35] <SWPadnos> s/i/I/
[17:05:00] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130395
[17:05:25] <alex_joni> a bit pricier then the 20$ card I pasted
[17:05:35] <SWPadnos> I'd probably go for a lower power fanless one anyway
[17:05:35] <alex_joni> and around emc2 using the vesa driver, probably not at all better :D
[17:05:43] <SWPadnos> not much, considering there's a $35 rebate ;)
[17:05:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:06:16] <alex_joni> there are a couple but expensive
[17:06:21] <alex_joni> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814139024
[17:06:46] <SWPadnos> I searched a bit over the last couple of days, they're in the $25-50 range
[17:08:14] <SWPadnos> I was pretty amazed - I priced out a quad-core machine yesterday, and it came to $800 with shipping (no keyboard, mouse, or monitor though)
[17:08:31] <alex_joni> ouch.. sounds a bit much
[17:09:11] <SWPadnos> that was with a 1.5TB hard drive, DVD recorder, low power (45W) quad core CPU, a high end motherboard, and a 9600GT video card
[17:09:21] <alex_joni> q9xxx ?
[17:09:22] <SWPadnos> and not counting the $45 in rebates
[17:09:34] <SWPadnos> AMD 9350e
[17:09:54] <SWPadnos> Intel has no quad-cores with that low power consumption
[17:10:02] <alex_joni> hmm.. I think they do
[17:10:08] <SWPadnos> not at NewEgg
[17:10:16] <alex_joni> q9450 ?
[17:10:17] <SWPadnos> they start at 89W or 95W
[17:10:22] <alex_joni> hmm.. right
[17:10:28] <alex_joni> 45nm though :P
[17:10:32] <SWPadnos> oops, this one is 65W
[17:10:34] <SWPadnos> not 45
[17:10:36] <alex_joni> 95W
[17:10:58] <SWPadnos> I can easily see how to reduce that price tag by $200 or so
[17:11:15] <SWPadnos> (500GB drive instead of 1500, slower video card, lesser motherboard, etc)
[17:11:25] <alex_joni> cut a piece out of the mobo?
[17:11:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:11:35] <SWPadnos> "now with less!"
[17:11:42] <alex_joni> could you please cut me 100$ out of this mobo?
[17:11:54] <SWPadnos> yes, we've removed all the connectors
[17:11:57] <SWPadnos> all of them
[17:11:58] <alex_joni> :))
[17:12:05] <SWPadnos> and sockets
[17:12:07] <SWPadnos> :)
[17:12:13] <alex_joni> and sata controllers
[17:12:22] <SWPadnos> nah - the controller is part of the chipset
[17:12:35] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131339
[17:12:56] <SWPadnos> this is a very nice motherboard - I have it in my quad-core workstation
[17:13:30] <SWPadnos> but you can save $100 by getting one that doesn't have FireWre, no PCI slots, not the top of the line chipset, etc.
[17:13:37] <SWPadnos> +i
[17:13:39] <jepler> no PCI slots?
[17:13:44] <SWPadnos> this one has PCI
[17:13:52] <SWPadnos> you can save $$ by not getting PCI slots
[17:14:09] <jepler> what slots does it have, then? Just PCIe?
[17:14:16] <SWPadnos> yes, I think so
[17:14:16] <alex_joni> PCI Slots2
[17:14:27] <jepler> (I mean, on these no-PCI boards)
[17:14:36] <SWPadnos> hmmm - let me check that again
[17:15:02] <SWPadnos> I was checking the high-end chipsets, and some have quad PCIex16 slots but no PCI
[17:15:11] <SWPadnos> or maybe 1 PCI slot
[17:16:06] <SWPadnos> oh ok - there are $79 motherboards with PCI slots too
[17:16:10] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157139
[17:16:33] <jepler> out of all the AMD motherboards, it appears that maybe 2 have no PCI slots
[17:17:03] <jepler> I haven't found one specifically yet, but there are 158 results for AMD motherboards, and the sum of all the choices for "PCI slots" is 156
[17:17:05] <SWPadnos> yeah - I was restricting my search to the top couple of chipsets, with firewire, and with 2 or more PCI slots
[17:17:13] <SWPadnos> so I may have been confused there :)
[17:17:31] <SWPadnos> nonetheless, a few percent performance hit yields a $100 or so reduction in price
[17:25:13] <jepler> one of the two that newegg doesn't think has PCI slots does have them (2): http://www.powercolor.com/eng/products_mb_detail.asp?ProductID=5019 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813158001
[17:33:31] <jepler> aha, there is one without PCI: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130206
[17:41:02] <SWPadnos> ok, PCI was a red herring then
[17:41:27] <SWPadnos> I don't remember why most of the boards got eliminated - it could have been my chipset selections
[19:01:58] <SWPadnos> man, steppers are whiny beasts
[19:06:01] <alex_joni> when standing still
[19:06:19] <SWPadnos> these are silent when stopped
[19:06:29] <SWPadnos> but far from that when moving
[19:06:44] <jepler> but this enables them to play daisy
[19:06:48] <jepler> it is a feature
[19:07:08] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I should have bought that fourth motor :)
[19:08:41] <jepler> remove the A-axis moves and you can play it for 3 motors
[19:08:45] <jepler> it's not as good, though
[19:08:49] <SWPadnos> yeah. darn
[19:09:06] <SWPadnos> I totally spaced when buying the motors. should have gotten 4
[19:09:35] <jepler> for all I know it sounds terrible due to the step shaping whatever mumble feature on the g251
[19:09:45] <SWPadnos> but since I don't really need them for anything, 3 is probably enough
[19:10:20] <SWPadnos> I'll see what 3-part harmony sounds like later - I'm planning on hooking up more motors today or tomorrow
[19:10:36] <SWPadnos> it is working nicely though, with stepconf timings of 1000 for all 4 parameters
[19:10:59] <SWPadnos> it's just veeeeeery sensitive to step polarity
[19:11:52] <SWPadnos> ack. gotta leave the room. bbiab
[19:15:04] <alex_joni> you can route the 4th to hal_speaker
[19:51:30] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: maybe it's usefull to talk to awallin for including something like this in the integrators manual: http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/dc_servo_schematic_2008jan19.pdf
[20:03:34] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: that is cool
[20:06:11] <alex_joni> it pays rereading older stuff :)
[20:06:24] <alex_joni> * alex_joni runs towards bed
[20:06:28] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:06:35] <BigJohnT> night
[20:06:41] <SWPadnos> see you
[20:06:58] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: you get the 540 going?
[20:07:03] <SWPadnos> yup
[20:07:09] <SWPadnos> step output polarity
[20:07:10] <BigJohnT> what was it?
[20:07:13] <SWPadnos> that was the culprit
[20:07:27] <BigJohnT> cool
[20:07:33] <SWPadnos> yes and no :)
[20:07:43] <BigJohnT> :?
[20:07:53] <SWPadnos> I don't see why that should matter much, but it's good that I finally figured it out
[20:08:36] <BigJohnT> if I recall it mattered on the 203v too
[20:10:41] <SWPadnos> it's different
[20:10:46] <SWPadnos> the G540 inverts
[20:10:58] <SWPadnos> so that may make it the same as the 203V - not sure
[20:23:41] <SWPadnos> now to see what happens to the analog spindle output, which may need to be inverted too :)
[20:55:18] <skunkworks> it has analog spindle output?
[20:55:29] <SWPadnos> it's supposed to, but it doesn't seem to be working
[20:55:42] <SWPadnos> it's an analog 0-10V isolated output for a VFD
[20:55:48] <skunkworks> neat
[20:56:11] <SWPadnos> yes, if I can get it to work :)
[20:56:42] <SWPadnos> the only designed-in "problem" I see is that there's no way to access the step/dir pins for unused channels
[20:56:51] <SWPadnos> so if you don't have 4 motors, too bad for you
[20:57:32] <skunkworks> ah - interesting
[20:57:47] <skunkworks> * skunkworks hugs his mesa card
[20:57:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:07:45] <SWPadnos> gah. is there a keyboard shortcut for the function the "touch off" button does?
[21:10:34] <seb_kuzminsky> the rtai packages in intrepid and jaunty dont build out of the box
[21:10:37] <jepler> did you look in Help > Quick Reference ?
[21:10:38] <seb_kuzminsky> :-(
[21:10:49] <SWPadnos> jepler, I did actually
[21:11:14] <SWPadnos> is that shift-home?
[21:11:40] <cradek> look harder
[21:11:51] <jepler> Hm, maybe it's a bug that none of those say "touch off"
[21:11:52] <cradek> hint: it's not spelled "touch off"
[21:11:56] <cradek> yeah
[21:12:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:12:18] <cradek> second hint: it's End
[21:12:21] <jepler> (in the description for shift-end, "zero" is a bit suspect too, since it doesn't set the offset to zero)
[21:12:39] <cradek> there is no shift-end
[21:12:45] <jepler> er, shift-home
[21:12:49] <SWPadnos> actually, it's the opposite of what I'm looking for
[21:12:59] <cradek> hm, I see what you mean
[21:13:00] <SWPadnos> I want to set the current location to something (usually 0)
[21:13:07] <SWPadnos> that removes offsets
[21:13:10] <cradek> that's shift-home
[21:13:12] <SWPadnos> (that = shift-home)
[21:13:28] <cradek> no, the documentation is fuzzy; it does not remove the offset
[21:13:49] <SWPadnos> when I hit shift-home, the current position becomes whatever the stepgen feedback is, not some number I can enter
[21:14:01] <SWPadnos> that is the opposite of what touch-off does
[21:14:31] <cradek> no, the current position becomes 0
[21:14:37] <SWPadnos> not on 2.2.7
[21:14:49] <SWPadnos> at least, not this 2.2.7 install
[21:15:02] <SWPadnos> (from liveCD, updated)
[21:15:36] <SWPadnos> maybe it's removing other offsets like G92
[21:15:45] <SWPadnos> s/like/such as/
[21:15:52] <cradek> works for me
[21:15:56] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[21:16:07] <cradek> can you start at the beginning and say what you're doing, and what you see
[21:16:34] <SWPadnos> ok. I start up a stepper system, and jog to where I want X=0 to be
[21:16:50] <SWPadnos> this represents a non-zero position according to stepgen
[21:17:11] <SWPadnos> I can hit the touch-off button and enter 0, which does what I want
[21:17:26] <SWPadnos> I'm looking for a keyboard command to accomplish that
[21:17:44] <cradek> right, the keyboard equivalent is shift-home
[21:18:01] <SWPadnos> I can move to X=0 (after touch-off), which represents a non-zero feedback position from stepgen
[21:18:17] <cradek> I don't understand what stepgen has to do with anything
[21:18:22] <SWPadnos> and when I press shift-home, the position display changes to the stepgen position
[21:18:24] <jepler> the Touch Off button's keyboard equivalent is End. You can see this in the tooltip that is shown when you mouse over the Touch Off button
[21:18:31] <SWPadnos> it's providing position feedback to EMCV
[21:18:42] <jepler> Shift-Home is intended to be equivalent to using Touch Off and entering 0
[21:18:46] <SWPadnos> actually, I can't see tooltips - they look like greeked hebrew text :)
[21:18:56] <jepler> o rly
[21:18:57] <cradek> position feedback is not relevant to offsets in the interpreter
[21:19:21] <SWPadnos> ok - it's useful to show that machine position is not the same as interpreter position
[21:19:56] <cradek> oh the problem is you don't have following?
[21:20:16] <SWPadnos> ih
[21:20:18] <SWPadnos> uh
[21:20:37] <SWPadnos> hmmm. maybe there's a G92 offset somewhere
[21:22:11] <SWPadnos> ok. my (very) bad
[21:22:27] <SWPadnos> I'll post a screenshot of the greek/hebrew text in a minute
[21:22:35] <SWPadnos> there's another curiosity I saw
[21:22:37] <cradek> pretend you're a user who's probably doing something wrong, and pretend I'm a brittle developer who wants a very precise bug report or he'll get bitchy ... :-)
[21:22:43] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:23:04] <SWPadnos> I'm anewbie when it comes to actually *running* one of these things ;)
[21:23:21] <cradek> ok so pretending that will come easy!
[21:23:30] <SWPadnos> yes, terribly so
[21:24:04] <SWPadnos> I configured stepconf with 1000 for steplen, stepspace, dirsetup, adn dirhold (those are good enough for the G540, assuming that you don't have >200k interrupts/second)
[21:24:29] <SWPadnos> strangely, there was never a direction change within ~2ms of a step
[21:24:53] <SWPadnos> even from keyboard jogging, where I'd expect the direction to reverse and the step to be output "immediately"
[21:25:08] <SWPadnos> not a big deal, but I thought it a little odd
[21:25:58] <SWPadnos> it wasn't symmetric either, steps were never closer than 2.04 ms before a dir change, and never came closer than 1.84 ms after
[21:26:16] <SWPadnos> (or close to that - I have a screenshot from the scope that I'll post too)
[21:38:54] <SWPadnos> heh. tort.ngc sure does sound odd with only one motor connected :)
[21:39:22] <jepler> something like this? http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/dir-hold-setup.png
[21:41:02] <SWPadnos> something like that, except noisier because it was done with a physical scope :)
[21:41:21] <SWPadnos> and it had infinite persistence, so it was showing several thousand direction changes
[21:47:20] <SWPadnos> huh. ctrl-K doesn't work when in MDI
[21:48:39] <cradek> works for me
[21:48:45] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:49:01] <cradek> (but C-u doesn't)
[21:49:49] <SWPadnos> I had the MDI tab up, loaded tort.ngc and ran it from the toolbar button, waited for it to finish (figuring that if I hit F3 or clicked the manual tab, it would stop the program), and when I hit ctrl-K afterwards, nothing happened
[21:49:53] <cradek> a,e,f,b,k all work right
[21:50:03] <SWPadnos> when I switched to the manual tab, it worked again
[21:50:07] <jepler> cradek: SWPadnos has a different expectation for ctrl-k
[21:50:20] <SWPadnos> uh - clear backplot
[21:50:22] <cradek> oh
[21:50:31] <cradek> C-k = 'delete from here to end of line'
[21:50:32] <SWPadnos> (like in the help/Quick Reference ;) )
[21:50:34] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:50:43] <SWPadnos> ok, that would be a problem then :)
[21:50:58] <SWPadnos> wordstar keystrokes will never die
[21:51:10] <cradek> this is why 'what you did (hit C-k), what you expected to happen (clear backplot), what happened instead (nothing)' is so useful
[21:51:18] <SWPadnos> :P
[21:51:48] <cradek> emacs actually - I think wordstar was multiple keypresses (C-k XXX) which would be nasty
[21:52:12] <SWPadnos> true, ctrl-K was the block command prefiz
[21:52:14] <SWPadnos> x
[21:52:30] <cradek> huh, I don't think I ever really used wordstar
[21:52:44] <SWPadnos> ctrl-k b for beginning, C-k e for end, c for cut, p for paste ..
[21:52:50] <SWPadnos> oh, maybe it was the Borland editor
[21:52:58] <cradek> same keys I bet
[21:53:00] <SWPadnos> which I thought was based on WS, but might not have been
[21:54:18] <jepler> cradek: (ctrl-k doesn't actually work right, because subsequently ctrl-y pastes something else)
[21:54:30] <jepler> cradek: (all this shitty half-implemented maybe-emacs-or-maybe-something-else is in herited from Tk)
[21:54:32] <cradek> ick
[21:54:40] <SWPadnos> I had some problems with just hitting up-arrow then enter also
[21:54:57] <cradek> without C-space I would have never tried to use C-y I guess
[21:54:57] <SWPadnos> I'd have g1x9.8f1000 in the history
[21:55:10] <SWPadnos> (and a corresponding g1x-9.8 move)
[21:55:17] <jepler> cradek: c-space?
[21:55:25] <SWPadnos> hmm - no wait, it was on circles
[21:55:40] <SWPadnos> from x=y=0, have g2x0y0i2f1000 in the history
[21:55:58] <SWPadnos> up-arrow/enter sometimes ended up with F0.1 or F1
[21:56:03] <cradek> C-space (motion) C-w [cut] C-y [paste]
[21:57:56] <cradek> SWPadnos: what do you mean ended up with? when you hit up/down, the mdi box gets filled in, you hit enter and it executes that
[21:58:06] <SWPadnos> that's the theory anyway
[21:58:39] <SWPadnos> I'm saying that the feed rate as displayed in the modal G-codes box, and the movement of the stepper and preview, didn't reflect what had been in the edit box
[21:58:54] <SWPadnos> I'm trying to reproduce it now
[21:59:10] <cradek> ok
[21:59:34] <cradek> I only did a few things, but it seems fine so far
[21:59:45] <SWPadnos> here too, so it may be a while :)
[22:01:09] <SWPadnos> I wonder how fast this motor can actually accelerate (with almost zero load)
[22:01:16] <SWPadnos> I have it set to 30 IPS^2
[22:01:53] <SWPadnos> max vel set to 10 IPS, but it's actually limited by the base period of 15924
[22:11:10] <seb_kuzminsky> SWPadnos: "base period"... how quaint ;-)
[22:11:28] <cradek> haha
[22:11:41] <fenn> why is that quaint?
[22:11:52] <SWPadnos> mesa systems don't need one ;)
[22:12:07] <SWPadnos> man. I need to bolt the thing down harder with the new settings :)
[22:12:14] <SWPadnos> 13410 base period (from stepconf)
[22:18:05] <SWPadnos> gah. I absolutely hate the flash crap they've saddled the geckodrive site with
[22:19:54] <BigJohnT> yea, me too
[22:20:57] <fenn> here's hoping for a Digital Americans with Disabilities act banning all flash-only websites
[22:22:33] <SWPadnos> yeah, and useless URLs like this: https://www.geckodrive.com/support.aspx?q=10003&n=718216
[22:22:44] <SWPadnos> https, for manuals and documentation?
[22:22:56] <SWPadnos> not that you can tell from the URL, mind you
[22:22:59] <fenn> wouldnt want evil hackers reading your documentation
[22:23:18] <SWPadnos> right, and they use Linux, so they can't get past the front page anyway
[22:23:27] <seb_kuzminsky> you should use https whenever possible, even if http is available
[22:23:37] <seb_kuzminsky> the more traffic is encrypted the better
[22:24:13] <seb_kuzminsky> oops, this isn't #political-conspiracy-rants, sorry
[22:25:18] <SWPadnos> I don't mind the https, it's the inscrutability of "support.aspx?q=10003&n=718216" that bothers me most
[22:25:21] <fenn> seb_kuzminsky: now i'm wondering if that comment was sarcastic or not
[22:25:55] <seb_kuzminsky> i was serious - more encrypted traffic is better for everyone's privacy
[22:25:55] <SWPadnos> and the fact that they don't have a page title, so if I try to look through my history, I won't be able to tell which ?q=froodle&n=blarg I need
[22:26:09] <SWPadnos> sure, I'm happy with ssh everywhere - not a problem :)
[22:28:38] <BigJohnT> isn't it great when you get something to work but your not sure which thing you did made it work :/
[22:29:15] <SWPadnos> yes and no :)
[22:29:32] <BigJohnT> I know what you mean
[22:30:27] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: the gs2 driver is that intended to be used with spindle control?
[22:31:00] <SWPadnos> well, it's a non-realtime speed controller for a VFD, so the most likely use is for a spindle
[22:31:18] <SWPadnos> but it could be used with a variable coolant pump or air hose or something too
[22:31:21] <BigJohnT> that's what I thought
[22:31:39] <BigJohnT> or a chip convayer
[22:31:49] <SWPadnos> sure
[22:32:05] <SWPadnos> it doesn't care - it just gets a speed and tells the GS2 to go there
[22:32:12] <BigJohnT> or a mash tun stirrer
[22:33:05] <SWPadnos> the loop rate could be pretty fast if you want - it's implemented as a nanosleep after the work is done, and the minimum time is 1 ms
[22:33:44] <SWPadnos> so if you can use 115200 baud on a GS2, the whole exchange could be done maybe 100 times a second
[22:33:53] <BigJohnT> cool, I can't wait to try it
[22:34:17] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT kicks CIA-42
[22:34:18] <CIA-42> ow
[22:34:33] <seb_kuzminsky> * seb_kuzminsky smacks CIA-42
[22:34:37] <SWPadnos> I think the total exchange is maybe 50-60 bytes (two commands, two responses)
[22:36:00] <BigJohnT> oh and do you use a std serial cable?
[22:36:14] <SWPadnos> not quite. the jack on the GS2 is an RJ connector
[22:36:35] <SWPadnos> I think the schematic is in the manual, and they also sell a cable (you did buy that, didn't you? :) )
[22:36:59] <BigJohnT> no :(
[22:37:32] <SWPadnos> do you have an RD45 crimp tool?
[22:37:44] <BigJohnT> but I may have one for the AD plc's in my cable case... but it is mostly full of AB cables as they have one for everything
[22:37:54] <BigJohnT> yes we have a crimp tool
[22:38:09] <BigJohnT> or rather many different crimp tools
[22:38:21] <BigJohnT> hmm the dog is telling me someone is here
[22:38:22] <SWPadnos> err, RJ45 that was supposed to be
[22:39:17] <SWPadnos> oh cool. they have an ethernet interface too
[22:40:03] <BigJohnT> well that was the UPS guy...
[22:40:16] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT opens a package from AD
[22:40:30] <SWPadnos> hmmm. 38400 baud max
[22:40:33] <SWPadnos> time to go. bbl
[22:40:57] <BigJohnT> see you later
[22:41:42] <SWPadnos> page 5-12 (116 in the PDF) has the pinout
[22:41:44] <SWPadnos> see you
[22:42:20] <BigJohnT> I have the paper manual that just came with the drive
[22:42:31] <BigJohnT> little bitty guy