#emc-devel | Logs for 2008-08-20

[00:40:36] <cradek> the resolvers on the HNC did originally have something like index. it was a certain absolute rotation and it used these as the "grid" zero
[00:42:42] <cradek> The electrical cycle of the resolver is in the form of a sine wave ... Each electrical cycle is divided into 1000 parts. Where the sine wave passes through zero on the rise is designated as ... grid position ... feedback pulse is synchronized
[00:43:17] <cradek> originally you had to set it up so one 'grid position' happens when both home switches are closed
[00:44:07] <cradek> my setup will also have this index while the fine home switch is closed, but the coarse home switch will be centered between two indexes like usual
[00:45:55] <cradek> (that ... paragraph was from the troubleshooting manual where it talks about it not homing right)
[11:34:05] <BigJohnT_> BigJohnT_ is now known as BigJohnT
[11:35:46] <BigJohnT> hi alex_joni
[11:43:52] <alex_joni> hi BigJohnT
[11:45:18] <BigJohnT> how do you change something on the emc web site?
[11:46:20] <alex_joni> like what?
[11:46:43] <BigJohnT> the description of the user manual and the integrators manual
[11:47:05] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/5/5/lang,en/
[11:47:09] <alex_joni> here?
[11:47:21] <BigJohnT> yes
[12:01:32] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: I can change it if you tell me with what
[12:02:48] <BigJohnT> the user manual IMHO needs to say something like to the effect that it is for running EMC
[12:03:11] <BigJohnT> and the intergrators manual might say for installing and configuring or something like that
[12:03:19] <alex_joni> User Manual - an extensive document about Installing, Configuring & Running EMC2. ?
[12:04:25] <alex_joni> I would say that's pretty obvious..
[12:04:45] <BigJohnT> there is nothing about installing or configuring in the user manual
[12:04:54] <BigJohnT> hmm
[12:05:23] <BigJohnT> User Manual - an extensive document on EMC2 interfaces and Running EMC2?
[12:05:30] <SWPadnos__> SWPadnos__ is now known as SWPadnos
[12:08:06] <alex_joni> too fancy for me :)
[12:08:19] <BigJohnT> ok
[12:08:34] <CIA-35> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: clean up sections in canned cycles
[12:08:51] <Guest360> Guest360 is now known as skunkworks_
[12:10:10] <BigJohnT> User Manual - an extensive document on Running EMC2?
[12:10:47] <CIA-35> EMC: 03bigjohnt 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: clean up sections in canned cycles
[12:11:06] <BigJohnT> well I have to go get Dad his breakfast now then go to work :(
[13:43:28] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[14:02:29] <Lerman> The HAL manual actually contains material that should be part of the integrators manual
[14:04:08] <Lerman> The material needed by an integrator is the integrators manual, the HAL manual, most of the component manaul
[14:05:54] <jepler> historically, anyway, there has been duplicated material between the integrator manual and the hal manual. I think the intent was for the hal manual to exclude anything that was emc specific. the hal manual is for projects that want to use hal without using emc.
[14:06:17] <jepler> what material are you thinking of? are you sure it's not in the integrator manual too?
[14:07:24] <Lerman> No. I'm not. But essentially all of the HAL manual is needed (or might be needed in a particular case) by an integrator.
[14:07:38] <Guest360> Guest360 is now known as skunkworks_
[14:07:42] <Lerman> I hadn't thought of the fact that HAL can be used without EMC.
[14:08:25] <Lerman> jepler: So. Do you have the missing measurement? I'm curious as to how far out of square that part is.
[14:08:44] <cradek> I can see a lot of use for mesa + hal (+ halscope) + ladder that's not motion control
[14:10:46] <Lerman> Once upon a time, I built a system that is very much like hal. It was used to control things ranging from dog food manufacturing plant to natural gas pumping stations.
[14:11:10] <Lerman> That was when I worked for Bristol Babcock. It used an 8080 processor.
[14:11:35] <Lerman> So, yes. hal can be used for lots of process control things.
[14:12:18] <jepler> Lerman: no -- I did measure one of the altitudes but I can't seem to find the file where I wrote the measurement.
[14:12:35] <skunkworks_> with a nice easy real time network interface - hal could take over the world.. :)
[14:13:19] <jepler> skunkworks_: you should write it
[14:13:20] <jepler> punjk
[14:13:21] <jepler> pink
[14:13:23] <jepler> punk
[14:13:23] <jepler> argh
[14:13:23] <Lerman> (or at least a space mission) :-)
[14:13:26] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:13:30] <SWPadnos> I made something that uses mesa+HAL to do non_EMC control
[14:13:32] <jepler> * jepler crawls back under a rock
[14:13:38] <skunkworks_> I don't think you want me to do that..
[14:13:57] <alex_joni> jepler: pink punk?
[14:14:25] <cradek> what happened to jepler?
[14:14:39] <alex_joni> he crawled under a pink punk rock
[14:14:55] <jepler> can someone else help me out with the thread started by Yahnis Chris? I think he took what I said in the wrong way -- I meant, "that sounds great, implement it and we might put it in emc", but he heard me say that I didn't think his idea was a good one..
[14:15:32] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure I understand what he wants - is it just an encoder-like reset input for stepgen?
[14:15:41] <jepler> SWPadnos: yes, I think so
[14:15:46] <SWPadnos> ok
[14:16:45] <SWPadnos> I wonder if it's as simple as it seems it should be
[14:17:11] <cradek> jepler: what do you want someone to do? why not just reply and explain?
[14:17:16] <jepler> I think it's a great idea. in fact, I think that even people with simple l297 or a3977 stepper drivers would benefit from this feature. the l297 has a 'home' output which is true for one step position per electrical revolution. you could use this output as the "index pulse"
[14:17:43] <jepler> (that is, if the signal is available in the PC which of course it's not)
[14:17:54] <cradek> I thought we considered that and found the 'index pulses' are way too close together to be useful
[14:18:19] <SWPadnos> they shouldn't be - it's the make_pulses function that has to check for the index
[14:18:46] <jepler> cradek: I thought you'd observed that you got repeatable homing to within one driver full step -- the "home" output is 4 times as big
[14:18:52] <SWPadnos> err - well, they may still be useless ...
[14:19:10] <cradek> jepler: that's true.
[14:21:34] <SWPadnos> the trouble with adding that to stepgen is that make_pulses would have to reset the count, but it may not be able to immediately stop sending pulses when the index occurs
[14:22:09] <SWPadnos> for EMC, it probably can, but in the general case, it could be going fill tilt when it notices an index, so it would need to decelerate
[14:22:24] <SWPadnos> which is done in the update-position function (or whatever) in the servo thread
[14:22:51] <SWPadnos> it could latch a new "offset" though, and keep on trucking
[14:23:46] <jepler> SWPadnos: you don't need to stop sending pulses -- why do you think that?
[14:24:03] <SWPadnos> or latch the pulse count where the index occurred ;)
[14:24:14] <SWPadnos> s/latch/save/
[14:24:53] <jepler> * jepler wonders whether there's room in pluto-step to add the index feature
[14:25:19] <jepler> (of course i'd be better of dumpstering that board and working with seb to finish the hostmot2 step generator interface)
[14:25:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:51:40] <BigJohnT> What do you guys think about splitting off the normal install and the stepconf to a Installation Manual? Short and easy to download. For more advanced installs they need to see the Integrators manual.
[16:52:16] <alex_joni> the only thing that is a concearn is that they will have to deal with more than one manual
[16:52:28] <alex_joni> but otoh, the user manual doesn't make sense before they install
[16:54:24] <BigJohnT> and to got to the 400+ page integrator manual for a newbee is mind boggling
[16:54:42] <BigJohnT> go to < got to
[16:54:44] <alex_joni> yeah, that's also true
[16:55:36] <BigJohnT> I'm thinking how to download and burn the live cd, how to install, and stepconf...
[17:00:43] <BigJohnT> maybe a short FAQ section too...
[17:01:03] <alex_joni> something like "Getting started" ?
[17:08:18] <BigJohnT> yep :)
[17:11:19] <alex_joni> bbl
[17:35:00] <BigJohnT> bbl
[18:42:06] <skunkworks_> does shurline have an 'in' with paul?
[18:42:17] <skunkworks_> sherline
[18:44:04] <jepler> I don't know why sherline would give him that advice.
[18:44:28] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ thinks it is bad advice
[19:23:14] <rayh> Yes. Paul does some work for Sherline.
[19:24:08] <rayh> I built a prototype EMC2 system for them to test.
[19:31:12] <cradek_> the sherline 4400 is a lathe. for sherline to recommend using emc1 instead of emc2 for a lathe is pure folly
[19:31:19] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[19:32:26] <cradek> emc1 is adequate to reasonably run their 3 axis mill, but it is not an adequate lathe control IMO
[19:32:58] <jepler> considering that the sherline lathe doesn't come with an encoder, the fact that spindle synchronized motion is missing from the control is a small detail
[19:33:03] <jepler> "IT WON'T CUT THREADS--It is not possible to cut threads on a CNC Sherline lathe. To do so would require an encoder on the DC spindle motor and spindle speed control in the software. This would put the price into a much higher category, and since threading is not an operation that is often required of a machine like this, we felt our customers would get the most "bang for the buck" by keeping the system simple and economically priced." -- http://sh
[19:33:17] <cradek> oh
[19:33:31] <cradek> a lathe that doesn't cut threads...
[19:33:49] <cradek> I guess you still get tapers with cnc
[19:34:27] <cradek> I was wondering earlier today if emc2 will give you manually-operated css if you put it in the right mode and use the jogwheels
[19:34:40] <jepler> I dunno
[19:34:42] <cradek> because that would be ultra cool
[19:35:32] <cradek> I couldn't come up with a (simple) way to test it
[19:40:19] <jepler> using sim_lathe I programmed G96 D1000 S10 M3 in mdi, hit F3 to go to manual mode, and turned the spindle back on with F9. It goes to 1RPM.
[19:40:58] <cradek> you'd have to do the mumble that leaves the spindle on when switching modes
[19:41:03] <jepler> yeah
[19:42:49] <SWPadnos> set [SOMETHING]{DONT_STOP_THE_SPINDLE = ON
[19:46:28] <skunkworks_> someone with more wit and grammer should post something to that effect.. (emc1 sucks for a lathe)
[20:02:49] <skunkworks_> did I mention how much I like emc2?
[20:03:33] <alex_joni> heh
[20:18:16] <skunkworks_> hmm - that can't be good.
[20:19:34] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: where abouts in ro are you?
[20:19:41] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: timisoara
[20:19:48] <alex_joni> if that means anything ;)
[20:19:53] <alex_joni> any reasons for asking?
[20:20:08] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timi┬║oara
[20:20:09] <skunkworks_> I was surfing google maps..
[20:20:19] <skunkworks_> on highway 69?
[20:20:24] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Timisoara_in_Europa.png