#emc-devel | Logs for 2008-05-10

[01:05:55] <tomp2> pci8255 tested on W2K with the board and chip I thought might be damaged... no problems :) now to test on Linux via Hal
[01:09:08] <SWPadnos> with or without pull-ups/pull-downs?
[01:12:11] <tomp2> with pull downs & it works :) sweet
[01:12:22] <tomp2> using jeplers 8255.hal
[01:12:34] <tomp2> i gots lotsa i/o now buddy
[01:12:51] <SWPadnos> ok, well that's good to know :)
[01:15:24] <tomp2> me happy :) jepler's driver is good, hdwr runs, blinky lights for everyone barkeep, on me!
[01:15:48] <SWPadnos> that should make jepler happy
[01:15:50] <SWPadnos> or angry :)
[01:16:09] <SWPadnos> troubleshooting bad hardware with software is difficult
[01:17:23] <tomp2> his may be ok too, this is the board & chip I thought was bad, and the 'bad' chip is the port I'm testing. He can have 72 i/o for a few resistors, i hope.
[01:17:43] <tomp2> he worked pretty hard on it, thx jepler
[01:18:37] <jepler> hi tomp2
[01:18:41] <jepler> thanks also for your help
[01:18:59] <jepler> I updated my old blog entry about the futurlec 8255 with a note about pull-down resistors. http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi/01165433819
[01:19:16] <tomp2> i couldnt write it, just got a bit lucky, hope your board is ok, futurlec is the cheap place for 8255's
[01:20:26] <tomp2> any hints on serial sniffing? i got 2 things i'd like to run under linux, a serial ctrld EDM generator and a serial controlled cnc ( the user i/f sux )
[01:22:02] <jepler> I'd be tempted to assemble cables similar to the ones shown at http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/cable/RS-232-spy-monitor.html and use some cheap serial-usb dongles if I didn't have a machine old enough to have two real serial ports
[01:22:14] <jepler> (assuming you want to sniff full duplex)
[01:22:52] <tomp2> thx, dunno what i'll see but sure its some simple pkts
[01:22:53] <jepler> (I can't vouch for those pinouts but the general idea seems sound and it should be easy to verify)
[01:23:19] <jepler> as for linux-specific software to record the conversations .. I dunno about a good choice for that
[01:23:38] <tomp2> cool, its a tap
[01:23:41] <jepler> yeah basically
[01:26:57] <jepler> I think it would not be too hard to capture two serial streams and write them out with linux, though I don't see how to be 100% sure you log them in the right order if they happen at "about the same time"
[01:27:54] <SWPadnos> there was a great program called microtap (for DOS)
[01:27:59] <SWPadnos> may still be around
[01:28:24] <SWPadnos> also viewcomm, though that one was ported to Windows and doesn't work as well any more (1ms timestamp resolution)
[01:28:59] <jepler> seems microtap is still around -- http://www.paladinsoftware.com/
[01:29:48] <jepler> it's not clear what the demo version will do
[01:29:53] <SWPadnos> heh - hard to tell
[01:30:10] <SWPadnos> they also made a Y cable for the actual tapping
[01:30:21] <SWPadnos> but $349 seems a bit steep for that package these days
[01:30:31] <jepler> I bet a dolla tomp is up to wiring the cable
[01:30:39] <SWPadnos> seems likely :)
[01:31:53] <SWPadnos> http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/General/comp.arch.embedded/2004-05/0426.html
[01:31:58] <jepler> * jepler contemplates saying that for $349 he'll write a serial logging HAL component
[01:32:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:32:41] <jepler> no user interface, but something that you can hook to halsampler
[01:32:50] <jepler> yeah, for $349 I'll do it.
[01:33:04] <SWPadnos> I'll give you $3.49
[01:33:16] <SWPadnos> or a taco
[01:40:06] <SWPadnos> huh: http://sourceforge.net/projects/rt-com/
[01:47:35] <tomp2> linux serial snooper (kde) http://serlook.sunsite.dk/
[01:47:44] <tomp2> ooh rt serial , nice
[01:49:51] <tomp2> http://rt-com.sourceforge.net/
[01:50:12] <SWPadnos> that's the one
[01:50:24] <SWPadnos> I remember seeing that at some point - the code looks familiar
[02:30:03] <cradek> snooper - Captures communication between two external serial devices
[02:31:53] <cradek> I know I've snooped serial with some piece of Free software. it might have been this but I'm not sure.
[02:32:29] <cradek> my laptop has a serial port and I used a usb-serial thingy for the second port
[02:52:36] <tomp2> i found LinuxSPA, slsnif, and serial_sniffer for linux, making the full duplex cable jepler found, trying slsnif
[02:58:18] <tomp2> gnite
[03:18:28] <CIA-49> EMC: 03jmelson 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/univpwm_io.hal: fix index-enable in commented-out hal
[03:19:54] <CIA-49> EMC: 03jmelson 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univstep/univstep_io.hal: fix index-enable in commented-out hal
[03:21:54] <CIA-49> EMC: 03jmelson 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/ppmc/ppmc_io.hal: fix index-enable in commented-out hal
[14:14:08] <jepler> * jepler is trying to figure out how to integrate emc2's html documentation into ubuntu desktop's "help"
[14:14:21] <jepler> as with all gnome things, it's somewhere between opaque and opaque
[14:15:36] <jmkasunich> there is definitely an inverse correlation between user friendliness and programmer friendliness
[14:16:39] <jepler> oh don't say anything that will make me comment on gnome "usability".
[14:17:26] <jmkasunich> I'm referring to the usability that makes Ubuntu so popular with former windows users
[14:43:15] <CIA-49> EMC: 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd_commands.c:
[14:43:15] <CIA-49> EMC: * point user at dmesg when loadrt fails (not on sim
[14:43:15] <CIA-49> EMC: * get rid of blocks warning
[14:43:52] <CIA-49> EMC: 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile: blocks is dead
[16:10:56] <jepler> * jepler gives up on integrating with gnome help
[16:12:03] <SWPLinux> heh
[16:12:44] <SWPLinux> but all you need to do is - err - make some files of some sort and put them somewhere and tell some program about it and ... and ...
[16:15:22] <SWPLinux> jepler: question about hal_input
[16:15:47] <SWPLinux> I'm messing with the uinput mechanism, and wanted to check enumeration using hal_input
[16:16:11] <SWPLinux> but for some reason, I can't open the /dev/input/uinput device
[16:16:32] <SWPLinux> I see the device node, and it has the same permissions as all the other input devices (which have worked in the past)
[16:18:35] <SWPLinux> hmmm. now those don't work either. I guess I should see what I screwed up
[16:19:30] <SWPLinux> should hal_input work with a sim build?
[16:22:33] <jepler> SWPLinux: yes
[16:22:49] <SWPLinux> ok - it works when I use a number, but I can't name a device node direcly
[16:23:02] <SWPLinux> (and I'm not sure I'm supposed to be able to anyway)
[16:24:53] <SWPLinux> ok, I need root permissions to load at al
[16:25:26] <SWPLinux> l
[16:29:44] <jepler> /dev paths are not supported
[16:29:54] <SWPLinux> apparently :)
[16:30:01] <jepler> you should be able to run it as non-root according to the permissions on the file in /dev it needs
[16:30:07] <SWPLinux> but I still need to be root to use a numbered /dev/input/eventN
[16:30:11] <SWPLinux> sure
[16:30:31] <SWPLinux> I'm looking through /etc/udev now to find what to change
[16:35:39] <jepler> ah there's a typo in the rule proposed in the manpage
[16:35:53] <SWPLinux> the hal_input manpage?
[16:35:56] <jepler> yes
[16:36:30] <SWPLinux> capital MODE?
[16:36:43] <jepler> no
[16:37:25] <SWPLinux> hmmm, isn't this 0660 permissions:
[16:37:33] <SWPLinux> crw-rw---- 1 root root 10, 223 2008-05-10 12:13 uinput
[16:37:52] <jepler> but your group does not include root
[16:37:55] <CIA-49> EMC: 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/hal_input.1: typo: = should have been ==
[16:37:56] <jepler> it does include "plugdev"
[16:38:04] <SWPLinux> ah
[16:39:07] <jepler> this does work for uinput as well as regular input devices -- I just happen to have a uinput device handy
[16:39:10] <jepler> halcmd: loadusr hal_input +Wiimote
[16:39:14] <SWPLinux> heh
[16:39:33] <jepler> now here's something to demo at cnc workshop :-P
[16:39:34] <jmkasunich> are you serious?
[16:40:02] <SWPLinux> I bought one of those dual-stick USB controllers Jymmmm was talking about - they're pretty cool
[16:40:05] <SWPLinux> and $20
[16:40:13] <jepler> about demong it? no. that a wii remote works as a linux input device, and with hal_input? yes.
[16:40:19] <jepler> s/demong/demoing/
[16:40:26] <jmkasunich> the latter is what I was asking about
[16:40:33] <jmkasunich> thats pretty cool
[16:40:47] <SWPLinux> I gather uinput is also used for force feedback
[16:41:26] <SWPLinux> the uinput mechanism is very interesting actually - userspace programs can stuff input events into the input subsystem
[16:42:10] <SWPLinux> I just tested segfaults and kills of the userspace driver, and in every case, the kernel cleaned up nicely
[16:42:18] <jepler> that's promising
[16:42:49] <SWPLinux> I may make the inverse of hal_input - something that lets you turn HAL stuff into input events X can use
[16:42:54] <SWPLinux> (or anything else)
[16:43:53] <jepler> for fun, or because you see an application for it?
[16:44:01] <SWPLinux> mostly for fu
[16:44:02] <SWPLinux> n
[16:44:25] <SWPLinux> it could be useful as well, except that HAL can't tell what program has focus
[16:44:37] <jmkasunich> it would be a more elegant replacement for those times when someone solders wires to a keyboard to connect a bigger/more rugged/etc switch and make it generate a keystroke
[16:44:49] <SWPLinux> that's true
[16:45:22] <SWPLinux> as long as AXIS (or some other known UI) is running, you can have buttons do the equivalent keyboard/mouse actions
[16:45:55] <jmkasunich> oh, I just thought of an off the wall application
[16:46:01] <SWPLinux> uh-oh
[16:46:02] <SWPLinux> :)
[16:46:05] <jmkasunich> (probably easier tools for it exist tho)
[16:46:20] <jmkasunich> testing some gui app - use streamer or CL or whatever to generate the commands
[16:47:01] <SWPLinux> or for testing - you could simulate mouse motion also
[16:47:10] <SWPLinux> demo mode :)
[16:47:35] <jmkasunich> could sampler be used to capture user actions, and streamer to play them back?
[16:48:17] <SWPLinux> hal_input on the capture side, hal_uinput on the playback side
[16:48:27] <SWPLinux> hal_output_to_input ...
[16:48:30] <SWPLinux> hmmm
[16:48:43] <jmkasunich> keyboard remapping ;-)
[16:48:50] <SWPLinux> heh - evil ;)
[16:49:01] <SWPLinux> here's the qwerty->dvorak HAL file ;)
[16:49:20] <jmkasunich> mouse motion -> scale block -> GUI
[16:49:31] <jmkasunich> and the scale is a random number that changes ever 10 seconds
[16:49:36] <SWPLinux> I need a bigger desk!
[16:49:44] <SWPLinux> I need a smaller desk!
[16:50:00] <jmkasunich> a _signed_ random number
[16:50:08] <SWPLinux> I need a drink!
[16:56:13] <SWPLinux> actually, I think I'll write that component right now. pyvcp+hal_(stuff things into uinput) is a good way of seeing how the system deals with generated events
[16:56:34] <SWPLinux> or just halcmd
[16:57:33] <jepler> ah yes, you can make the pyvcp input that turns itself off
[16:57:50] <SWPLinux> heh
[16:58:09] <SWPLinux> more specifically, I can set a bit (which generates a key down event), and see if the key repeats
[16:58:19] <SWPLinux> and what happens when I press another key
[16:58:21] <SWPLinux> etc.
[17:01:14] <jmkasunich> does anybody remember if the Mazak is 240 or 480V?
[17:01:32] <SWPLinux> though it isn't useful as a generic component, unless there's some sort of big ini file (similar problem to pyvcp and modbus)
[17:01:35] <SWPLinux> I don't recall
[17:01:46] <SWPLinux> I know there's 480 in that corner though
[17:02:03] <jmkasunich> I'm replying to Ed who wants 240 3ph
[17:03:08] <SWPLinux> hmmm. a 3-ph transformer might not be too available
[17:03:33] <SWPLinux> I'd bet there's 240, even if the Mazak is 480
[17:04:30] <SWPLinux> oh, now that's an interesting toolsetter approach
[17:04:48] <SWPLinux> I'd always seen them as very precise switches or contact sensors
[17:05:03] <jmkasunich> the indicator?
[17:05:04] <SWPLinux> but you can also stick an encoder with index in there, and trip when you hit the index
[17:05:06] <SWPLinux> yeah
[17:05:17] <jmkasunich> only problem with that is that it takes human intervention
[17:05:20] <SWPLinux> sort of an electronic version
[17:05:22] <jmkasunich> (or indicator hacking)
[17:05:32] <jmkasunich> there are indicators that can speak serial
[17:05:32] <SWPLinux> 'm thinking of an automatic version that should be more precise than a switch
[17:06:03] <SWPLinux> plunger with encoder (linear or on a screw), index mark indicates "0"
[17:06:19] <SWPLinux> about the same as an optical switch, I guess
[17:06:29] <jmkasunich> screw won't work well because most don't back drive well
[17:06:40] <SWPLinux> gotta have balls ;)
[17:06:41] <rayh> The Mazak is cord connected. I don't think I'd do that with 480.
[17:07:03] <jmkasunich> yeah, I recall the twist lock
[17:07:19] <jmkasunich> if it's 240, Ed could plug in there
[17:07:24] <jmkasunich> we won't be using it constantly
[17:07:34] <jmkasunich> ISTR there were two plugs anyway
[17:07:50] <jmkasunich> rayh: didn't realize you were here
[17:07:54] <jmkasunich> lets talk about power
[17:07:56] <rayh> Sure. There are several 240 outlets along that south? wall.
[17:08:05] <rayh> Okay.
[17:08:21] <jmkasunich> two years ago you rigged the transformers cause we were over in the other building
[17:08:35] <rayh> Yes.
[17:08:38] <jmkasunich> last year we were in front of the mazak (moved from the previous year)
[17:08:46] <jmkasunich> and we used the limited 120V outlets
[17:08:58] <jmkasunich> had a blackout when Aram plugged in his coffeepot ;-)
[17:09:02] <SWPLinux> heh
[17:09:04] <rayh> I've got at least 3 three phase control transformers.
[17:09:09] <SWPLinux> and mine was off at the time :)
[17:09:26] <jmkasunich> I was just looking at this; http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=80-109-052&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[17:09:30] <rayh> We could hide under boxes like we did 2 years ago.
[17:09:37] <jmkasunich> 3KVA 480 OR 240 TO 120
[17:10:05] <SWPLinux> did you look at it in person?
[17:10:10] <jmkasunich> no
[17:10:21] <rayh> Price is certainly right.
[17:10:33] <SWPLinux> the specs don't say whether you get selectable 240/120 out - it could be a 2:1
[17:10:34] <rayh> If it's close enough to someone to pick up.
[17:10:43] <jmkasunich> its local for me
[17:10:52] <rayh> Most all of these have a center tapped secondary.
[17:10:53] <jmkasunich> they are open one sat a month, and that is next week
[17:11:05] <jmkasunich> either that or reconfigurable primaries
[17:11:29] <rayh> The primary selects 240 or 480
[17:11:33] <SWPLinux> right
[17:11:34] <jmkasunich> right
[17:11:40] <rayh> and the secondary is 110 and 220
[17:11:44] <jmkasunich> oh, I see - you mean it can make 120/240 split phase
[17:11:51] <rayh> Yes
[17:11:53] <SWPLinux> eek
[17:11:58] <jmkasunich> they have two of those at the same price
[17:12:14] <jmkasunich> also a 1kva
[17:12:22] <jmkasunich> SWPLinux: eek?
[17:12:23] <jmkasunich> why?
[17:12:30] <SWPLinux> give a 1kva to Aram for his coffee pot ;)
[17:12:38] <rayh> There you go.
[17:12:53] <jmkasunich> they have craploads (as I continue to scroll down the list)
[17:12:56] <rayh> I can make up the plugs for outlets.
[17:12:57] <SWPLinux> with the CT as "ground", it should be OK. just thinking back to the days of diffent circuits frying computers and printers and such
[17:13:04] <SWPLinux> different
[17:13:20] <jmkasunich> ground the center tap is standard - then its just like residential power
[17:13:24] <SWPLinux> yep
[17:13:43] <rayh> 2 years ago I did ground that setup to the wireway so it should have been good.
[17:13:48] <jmkasunich> nice thing about the enclosed ones is safety
[17:13:56] <SWPLinux> I guess most of those old problems were probably due to swapped hot/neutral
[17:13:59] <rayh> Yes. Mine are all open.
[17:14:00] <jmkasunich> I think you grounded it after swp got a tingle
[17:14:07] <SWPLinux> heh
[17:14:08] <SWPLinux> yep
[17:14:19] <rayh> I could see the light in his eyes.
[17:14:24] <SWPLinux> actually, the ground leg on the plug was NFG
[17:14:36] <jmkasunich> oh, thats right
[17:14:36] <SWPLinux> or the outlet - don't recall
[17:14:53] <SWPLinux> then we grounded it to the conduit :)
[17:14:56] <jmkasunich> it was plugged in, but we ran a green wire around the plug
[17:15:15] <rayh> At 3kw I should make a fuse panel or feed a little breaker setup.
[17:15:21] <rayh> I could easily do that as well.
[17:15:40] <jmkasunich> I'd be happy to buy and bring the transformer
[17:15:40] <rayh> Yep I remember, looped across a couple of machines.
[17:15:49] <SWPLinux> and the lights
[17:15:51] <rayh> Okay.
[17:16:14] <jmkasunich> hmm, I wonder what the output volts is on this: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=12-273-178&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[17:16:28] <jmkasunich> (thinking of making 240 from 480 - although it sounds like we won't need that)
[17:16:33] <SWPLinux> that's a beauty
[17:17:07] <rayh> Looks like it was from an HES lathe.
[17:17:25] <rayh> Let me run out to the shop and see how the 110 side is setup.
[17:17:26] <SWPLinux> looks like it was from a clean room
[17:17:48] <jmkasunich> I wonder what this is: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=42-452-381&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[17:18:18] <SWPLinux> .54kva - not too useful :)
[17:18:38] <jmkasunich> its something special - 120V in, and screw terminals out
[17:18:52] <jmkasunich> and designed to be portable
[17:19:04] <jmkasunich> resistance welding? carbon torch?
[17:19:24] <jmkasunich> hmm, plugs built in: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=42-486-260&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[17:20:15] <SWPLinux> the extra number in that other one was 1/50-60/120, so it may have to do with euro/US conversion
[17:20:36] <jmkasunich> nah - that means 1 phase, 50 or 60 hz, 120V
[17:20:50] <SWPLinux> true - I keep orgetting about phases :)
[17:20:53] <SWPLinux> forgetting
[17:21:42] <jmkasunich> ah, I bet its for an older version of this: http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_processing/bench_machines/stp_stripping_system.jsp
[17:22:01] <rayh> The 3 phase ones I've got in the shop don't have a center tap.
[17:22:27] <jmkasunich> rayh: did you see the one that has a quad box already attached for $39?
[17:22:29] <rayh> If this one does we would want to know if it's delta or wye connected.
[17:22:29] <roltek> hi ray how you doing
[17:22:44] <rayh> I didn't.
[17:22:55] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=42-486-260&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[17:23:03] <rayh> I do have a 3 kva filter setup out there.
[17:23:05] <jmkasunich> no protection tho
[17:23:49] <rayh> That would work for the coffee maker.
[17:23:58] <jmkasunich> the general rule at HGR is offer 75 to 80% of their asking price and they'll probably take it
[17:24:45] <rayh> Something like that would easily work for us. If we used power bars, they have an overload.
[17:25:10] <jmkasunich> need power strips?
[17:25:10] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=21-134-220&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[17:25:20] <rayh> Not that it would be approved for this use.
[17:25:47] <rayh> Get the whole tub of those.
[17:26:03] <jmkasunich> serious? (I'd be happy to if you really want them)
[17:26:13] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[17:26:35] <jmkasunich> probably get them for $1.50 each if buying the tub
[17:26:42] <rayh> I had a 50kva 3 phase available to me.
[17:26:44] <jmkasunich> (assuming they're still there next week)
[17:27:15] <rayh> I'd build the whole thing into the shop for us but I wonder how much longer we will have access to it.
[17:27:24] <jmkasunich> yeah
[17:27:33] <jmkasunich> plus, 50 kva is a bit heavy to haul
[17:27:35] <rayh> We could certainly use a couple dozen of those.
[17:27:55] <rayh> I've got a truck I'm bringing this year to haul some stuff home.
[17:28:04] <rayh> Roland and I have a side deal going.
[17:28:15] <jmkasunich> from my truck to yours....
[17:28:30] <rayh> There you go. Another side deal.
[17:28:48] <SWPLinux> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=90-126-076&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[17:29:16] <rayh> I will bring this 3 kva setup. It has a really nice filter -- caps and inductance.
[17:29:29] <jmkasunich> SWPLinux: nice
[17:29:43] <SWPLinux> that should work :)
[17:29:50] <jmkasunich> probably intended for 120Y/208 system
[17:30:19] <jmkasunich> the main problem I see now isn't lack of power, its lack of extension cords
[17:30:22] <rayh> looks like space for 6 breakers. Get it.
[17:30:44] <SWPLinux> I have half a dozen cords, 2 of which are 75' 12-ga outdoor cords
[17:31:03] <SWPLinux> plus those 4' 8 or 10-outlet strips
[17:31:24] <SWPLinux> (2 of those)
[17:31:25] <rayh> I'll bring what I've got also. We could get a few more if we need at that farm store near town.
[17:32:24] <rayh> Let's put the developer area on my filtered box and not make any extra receptacles available.
[17:32:38] <SWPLinux> hmmm. looks like I should pack up so I can board the next plane.
[17:32:40] <SWPLinux> see you later
[17:32:59] <rayh> We can put the "lab" on another separate transformer.
[17:33:23] <tomp2> 00:26:43 <tomp2> i was thinking people could ship stuff here ( got a dock ) and i could get a van for a small crew from ORD to Galesburg 00:26:46\
[17:33:40] <jmkasunich> rayh: I thought the lab was gonna be in one of the classrooms
[17:33:47] <rayh> Then the general area can be on a third.
[17:34:08] <rayh> I was hoping to keep it closer to the rest of us.
[17:34:27] <rayh> Perhaps around the wall where we had the developer stuff 2 years ago.
[17:35:21] <jmkasunich> have you been to the shop in the last year?
[17:35:27] <jmkasunich> (many things moved since 2 yrs ago)
[17:35:31] <rayh> No
[17:35:36] <rayh> I've heard that.
[17:36:03] <rayh> Is that big G&L still in the middle?
[17:36:24] <jmkasunich> the one G&L in the middle is still there
[17:36:28] <jmkasunich> the other G&L is gone
[17:36:32] <rayh> Okay.
[17:36:37] <jmkasunich> the mazak's are turned 90 degrees
[17:36:53] <jmkasunich> so its G&L, Mazak 1, Mazak 2, compressor along the back wall
[17:36:59] <jmkasunich> Mazak 2 is the emc one
[17:37:09] <rayh> k
[17:37:21] <jmkasunich> the emc tables were set up between the garage door and the man-door in the corner of the building
[17:37:32] <jmkasunich> and the big shear from the other building was between the tables and the garage door
[17:37:40] <rayh> k
[17:37:52] <jmkasunich> the other building (other section really) where the shear was had bunches of picnic tables in it
[17:39:20] <rayh> I don't quite understand where the shear is now.
[17:39:46] <jmkasunich> you know where the garage door is (the one that faces the G&L)?
[17:39:58] <rayh> Yea
[17:40:10] <jmkasunich> is you are standing in the doorway facing in, the shear is to your right, perpendicular to the doorway
[17:40:47] <rayh> Oh. So the tables and mazak are kinda walled off by the shear.
[17:40:55] <jmkasunich> the tables
[17:41:04] <jmkasunich> take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5q1rVKYLTQ
[17:41:08] <rayh> k
[17:41:23] <jmkasunich> table in the center of the image is facing the back of the shear
[17:41:42] <jmkasunich> there is a fairly large aisle (6ft?) between the end of the shear and the left Mazak
[17:42:14] <rayh> Okay.
[17:42:53] <jmkasunich> I have no idea if the layout is gonna be the same this year
[17:43:07] <jmkasunich> I suspect no machines have moved, but the tables could be anywhere
[17:43:35] <jmkasunich> so, double checking my HGR bookmarks
[17:43:38] <jmkasunich> we want the power strips
[17:43:52] <rayh> Some anyway.
[17:44:20] <jmkasunich> $50 worth? (between 25 and 50 depending on how well I negotiate)
[17:44:22] <rayh> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=90-126-076&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[17:44:30] <rayh> That if it's there.
[17:44:35] <jmkasunich> yep, was just about to say "we want the panel thing"
[17:45:05] <rayh> The transformer with the dual duplex plugs
[17:45:37] <jmkasunich> this one, right? http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=42-486-260&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[17:48:08] <rayh> Yep.
[17:48:22] <rayh> If you need to share costs on these let me know.
[17:49:05] <jepler> same here
[17:50:03] <jmkasunich> I was in for a $30 xfmr, now we're up to a $40 xfmr, a $30 panel, and ? of power strips - if its gonna stay at the workshop I'll go to say $50 total
[17:50:19] <jmkasunich> hell, we can probably sell power strips for $2 each and make a few cents
[17:50:46] <jmkasunich> I can pay for all of it on CC and we'll square up at the workshop
[17:51:17] <jmkasunich> do we want a transformer without plugs to go with that panel? there are 3kva ones for $30
[17:51:53] <rayh> There you go.
[17:52:00] <jmkasunich> that's a yea?
[17:52:32] <rayh> The one from 2 years ago should still be around there someplace.
[17:52:36] <jmkasunich> ok, bookmarked this one: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=12-178-129&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[17:52:46] <rayh> I'll bring an extra from here.
[17:52:48] <jmkasunich> enclosed seems so much nicer
[17:53:20] <rayh> It does look nice.
[17:53:21] <jmkasunich> now - how are we gonna feed them? do we need primary protection?
[17:54:04] <jmkasunich> the 480 and 240 are all along the back wall - the class area in the other building is close - the tables in the Mazak area not so much
[17:54:41] <rayh> I'll bring some conduit and make a good run across there just for us.
[17:55:04] <steve_stallings> Hi guys. Trying to skim and get lost trying to keep up. If you need SINGLE phase, I can bring a 3KVA 460 to 115/230 and possibly a 6 KVA 460 to 115/230.
[17:55:32] <jmkasunich> we are talking single plase
[17:55:40] <rayh> Hey that 6kva would do a nice job feeding that breaker box.
[17:56:41] <rayh> If we added 3 breakers and separated the duplex plugs we could make 6 20 amp proper circuits.
[17:57:37] <jmkasunich> 6kva is gonna be pretty darned heavy
[17:57:38] <rayh> That should feed that entire area between the man door and the mazak and the shear.
[17:57:55] <rayh> Depends if it's potted in sand.
[17:58:03] <jmkasunich> lol - last year we had one 20 amp circuit
[17:58:17] <jmkasunich> 3 would be wonderfull, 6 would be unheard of luxury
[17:58:18] <steve_stallings> Well if I take a deep breath and it is already at the tailgate of the van, I can lift it.
[17:58:23] <rayh> I can use my filtered setup for the lab area.
[17:58:35] <steve_stallings> Not potted, dry type.
[17:58:46] <jmkasunich> steve_stallings: ah, that makes a big difference
[17:58:49] <rayh> Oh to be young
[17:58:59] <steve_stallings> Oh to stay young...
[17:59:18] <steve_stallings> all things relative, 56 is young?
[17:59:19] <rayh> Gotta run.
[17:59:30] <rayh> Yep by comparison.
[17:59:37] <jmkasunich> at the shop end, there are forklifts, and I can bring a couple 3 ft lifting straps
[17:59:59] <steve_stallings> Naw, two guys and a hand cart are just fine.
[18:00:28] <jmkasunich> I'll reconfirm later, but it sounds like the plan is now for me to get the panel thing, we'll hook it to steve's 6kva if available, if not to a 3kva from either steve or HGR
[18:00:31] <steve_stallings> I do need to put power to it and make sure it is good.
[18:00:42] <jmkasunich> ray will bring his own setup for the class area
[18:00:55] <jmkasunich> and I might or might not get the 2kva with attached outlets
[18:01:24] <jmkasunich> and I'll bring a pile of power strips
[18:01:44] <jmkasunich> all of this assumes that stuff is still available next saturday - I'll let everybody know how it goes
[18:01:49] <steve_stallings> OK, note - I plan to arrive Sunday afternoon and leave Sunday AM.
[18:02:25] <jmkasunich> steve_stallings: is the transformer something that will go home with you, or a donation? (determines whether we wire it in with conduit or just temporary)
[18:03:11] <steve_stallings> Needs to come back with me. It is the stepup to feed a 460 VFD from 230.
[18:03:27] <jmkasunich> ah, ok
[18:04:06] <jmkasunich> given size, weight, and hauling, it might make sense to get a cheap 3kva from HGR and wire it in permanently
[18:04:27] <jmkasunich> that will provide three solid 20A circuits, which is plenty
[18:04:57] <steve_stallings> Well, we have time since mine is not going away. See what HGR has to offer.
[18:05:04] <jmkasunich> will do
[18:18:13] <Guest265> Guest265 is now known as skunkworks_
[18:27:27] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[18:31:15] <skunkworks_> skunkworks_ is now known as skunkworks
[19:23:03] <dave_1> skunkworks ... you alive?
[19:45:16] <alex_joni> hi guys
[19:58:34] <CIA-49> EMC: 03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/hal_input.1: from TRUNK: ==, not =
[20:04:33] <alex_joni> rayh: around?
[22:02:57] <CIA-49> EMC: 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/ (configure.in configure): readline is now required to build