#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-12-08

[03:41:06] <jmk-st> it seems odd that installing emc2 would require "gcc-3.4-base"
[03:41:40] <jmk-st> The following extra packages will be installed:
[03:41:40] <jmk-st> gcc-3.4-base lapack3 libg2c0 python2.4-imaging-tk python2.4-numarray
[03:41:40] <jmk-st> refblas3
[03:41:40] <jmk-st> Suggested packages:
[03:41:40] <jmk-st> python-imaging-doc python-numarray-doc
[03:41:41] <jmk-st> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[03:41:43] <jmk-st> emc2-axis
[03:41:45] <jmk-st> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[03:41:47] <jmk-st> gcc-3.4-base lapack3 libg2c0 python2.4-imaging-tk python2.4-numarray
[03:41:49] <jmk-st> refblas3
[03:41:51] <jmk-st> The following packages will be upgraded:
[03:41:53] <jmk-st> emc2
[03:41:55] <jmk-st> 1 upgraded, 6 newly installed, 1 to remove and 7 not upgraded.
[05:06:33] <cradek> jmkasunich: I remember seeing that. it isn't required directly by emc2, but by some other (mispackaged) thing that is an emc2 dependency. I forget which one though.
[05:07:30] <jmkasunich> ok
[05:07:31] <cradek> I see you are upgrading from emc 2.0. it has been a while hasn't it.
[05:07:53] <jmkasunich> I'm not too worried about it, figured I'd post it so the packaging experts could see it
[05:08:20] <cradek> * cradek looks around
[05:08:27] <jmkasunich> something is fubared with the ubuntu desktop clipboard
[05:08:43] <jmkasunich> highlight text in a shell, click on edit->copy
[05:08:58] <jmkasunich> try to paste it into an editor, and I get something I copied a long time ago
[05:09:12] <cradek> there are two clipboards
[05:09:31] <jmkasunich> since when?
[05:09:35] <cradek> since gnome at least
[05:09:42] <jmkasunich> I used to be able to do what I'm trying to do now
[05:09:48] <cradek> one is the normal X clipboard (select text. middle click somewhere else)
[05:10:11] <cradek> the other is the windowslike clipboard (select text. do something on a menu. go to another app. do something else on a menu.)
[05:10:37] <jmkasunich> well neither one seems to work
[05:10:53] <cradek> pasting into what app?
[05:10:57] <jmkasunich> I take that back, the middle click one does work
[05:10:59] <jmkasunich> gedit
[05:11:42] <jmkasunich> I've _never_ used the middle click one before, the one I used to work just plain doesn't anymore
[05:11:45] <jmkasunich> strange
[05:11:48] <cradek> shocking that gnome-app-to-gnome-app doesn't work
[05:12:31] <cradek> I've always used the middle click (aka "the X way")
[05:12:57] <jmkasunich> can you do a quick try the other way, just to see if this is unique to my box
[05:13:02] <jmkasunich> copy from a shell to an editor
[05:13:19] <cradek> sorry I don't have gnome here
[05:13:19] <jmkasunich> (or are you not using gnome?)
[05:13:53] <cradek> you're using gnome-terminal?
[05:14:18] <jmkasunich> yes
[05:14:57] <cradek> huh. I don't even know what to suggest.
[05:15:10] <jmkasunich> well, the middle click thing worked, so I'm content
[05:15:20] <jmkasunich> well, not content, but able to do what I needed to do
[05:15:33] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/mounted-monitor-12-07-07.html
[05:16:50] <cradek> wow that looks like a huge screen
[05:16:58] <jmkasunich> 15" for $99
[05:17:05] <jmkasunich> 1024x768
[05:17:14] <cradek> it's strange. for smaller the price goes up (fast)
[05:17:34] <jmkasunich> you can never have too many pixels anyway
[05:17:43] <cradek> how close are you to moving it?
[05:17:57] <jmkasunich> depends on how nice I want to make it
[05:18:09] <jmkasunich> maybe this weekend, if I cut some corners
[05:18:16] <cradek> whee!
[05:18:33] <jmkasunich> I still need to figure out a way to mount the keyboard (and a mouse)
[05:18:50] <jmkasunich> then stick the PC in the box, hook it to monitor and kb, etc
[05:19:09] <jmkasunich> mount the drives and power supply (holes are already drilled, that will be quick)
[05:19:19] <jmkasunich> then wire from parport to drives and drives to motor
[05:19:30] <cradek> mouse seems like a problem
[05:19:30] <jmkasunich> (I'm gonna start with the parport, then graduate to the mesa later)
[05:19:40] <jmkasunich> trackball maybe?
[05:19:45] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich checks microcenter.com
[05:19:53] <cradek> I'm trying some external trackpad/glidepad thing
[05:20:20] <cradek> either that or nipple mouse (maybe made into a small joystick) seems best to me (no moving parts)
[05:21:12] <jmkasunich> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0216472
[05:21:28] <jmkasunich> no little wheels to get gunked up
[05:21:35] <jmkasunich> I assume you can remove the marble for cleaning
[05:21:40] <cradek> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826152020&Tpk=%257cATP-400UB
[05:21:44] <jmkasunich> (its an opticla mouse turned upsidedown)
[05:22:06] <jmkasunich> I hate those little pad things
[05:22:22] <cradek> I think they're (slightly) better than the nipple
[05:22:40] <cradek> I hate those marble trackballs :-)
[05:22:44] <jmkasunich> heh
[05:22:59] <cradek> they always get a cat hair under the ball and freaks out
[05:23:17] <jmkasunich> an optical mouse actually has a chance to work, if I can find a flat spot to run it on
[05:23:50] <cradek> I have had no luck with an optical mouse on my white painted bench
[05:23:58] <cradek> I finally found a mouse pad and that fixes it
[05:24:03] <cradek> must not be enough for it to 'see'
[05:24:06] <jmkasunich> I got one of those rather awful rubber sealed keyboards, I'm thinking a piece of 1/8 aluminum is all it needs
[05:24:46] <cradek> let me know what you think of it after a while...
[05:24:55] <jmkasunich> I need to make "ssh -X" work - this computer is only about 4 steps away from the machine, so if I have lots of typing to do I'll step over here
[05:25:09] <jmkasunich> I'm sure it will suck
[05:25:23] <jmkasunich> but I intend to have lots of physical (halui) controls
[05:25:35] <jmkasunich> so I shouldn't be typing or mousing _too_ much
[05:25:46] <cradek> yeah especially mousing should be completely unnecessary
[05:25:56] <cradek> if you have to use the mouse it's a gui bug :-)
[05:26:16] <jmkasunich> in the 2nd pic, you can see a black nameplate below the screen
[05:26:30] <jmkasunich> (its a threading feed chart, or belt chart, or some such sillyness)
[05:26:40] <jmkasunich> I want to put a joghweel somewhere in that area
[05:26:53] <cradek> good idea
[05:26:59] <jmkasunich> the spindle motor switches below that are also gonna go away (spindles will be controlled by emc using contactors)
[05:27:06] <cradek> if you can jog left handed...
[05:27:35] <jmkasunich> well, theres no place to the right to mount anything
[05:27:50] <jmkasunich> I could put the wheel on a pendant, but that would probably be a pain
[05:28:27] <jmkasunich> I suppose I could put it on the millhead
[05:28:50] <cradek> you don't want it over head level either
[05:29:18] <cradek> (don't know how low you sit there)
[05:29:27] <jmkasunich> I just stood in front of the machine, pretended to be staring at the workpiece and turning the knob, and it seems to work
[05:29:34] <jmkasunich> I don't sit in front of the machine, I stand
[05:30:02] <jmkasunich> I do have a tall wooden stool if my feet get tired
[05:30:05] <cradek> I always sit (close/low) for small lathe work
[05:30:15] <jmkasunich> well, you have a small lathe
[05:30:22] <jmkasunich> if you sit, you get chips in your lap
[05:30:25] <cradek> yeah both are smallish
[05:30:38] <cradek> that's true. I wear one of those aprons sometimes
[05:31:17] <jmkasunich> hmm... I have a problem
[05:31:21] <jmkasunich> I can't find that keyboard
[05:31:42] <cradek> you don't want it until your setup is all done anyway
[05:31:54] <jmkasunich> ?
[05:32:14] <jmkasunich> I want to be able to work the computer
[05:32:41] <cradek> oh I assumed you had another to use while you still have a lot to type
[05:33:13] <jmkasunich> no matter what keyboard I have, there isn't a place to mount it over there
[05:33:34] <jmkasunich> (right now the computer is on my bench and plugged into my KVM, so I'm using this keyboard and screen
[05:34:27] <jmkasunich> found it
[05:34:43] <jmkasunich> evil - it is USB
[05:34:52] <jmkasunich> there is a PS2 to USB widget attached tho
[05:35:58] <jmkasunich> 14 x 5-1/2" it's almost exactly as wide as the monitor
[20:22:59] <jmkasunich> crap - the shoptask PC locked up
[20:25:14] <LawrenceG> opps... I noticed on a picture of your shoptask, that you had a different z axis automation.... what is the setup for Z?
[20:26:07] <LawrenceG> are you using a leadscrew or the internal rack and pinion?
[20:26:10] <jmkasunich> a ballscrew, rotating nut
[20:26:41] <LawrenceG> cool... do you have more detailed pictures?
[20:26:47] <jmkasunich> drawing here: http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/Z-axis-12-16-06.html
[20:27:26] <jmkasunich> I built that about 3 years ago
[20:27:35] <jmkasunich> and I've yet to actually run it
[20:28:22] <LawrenceG> cool.. I spent a lot of time trying to improve the quill feed... a lot of backlash in the large internal rack
[20:28:33] <jmkasunich> oh yeah
[20:28:42] <jmkasunich> and even more in the wormgear and clutch contraption
[20:29:09] <jmkasunich> I'm a little concerned that the quill will tilt due to off-axis drive
[20:29:30] <jmkasunich> thats why I got the screw as close as I could to the spindle centerline
[20:29:55] <LawrenceG> I would like to replace the whole z axis head with a higher speed spindle as I mostly do small stuff like PCB's
[20:30:09] <jmkasunich> I owuld like to replace the whole head period
[20:30:13] <jmkasunich> but I dunno what with
[20:30:29] <jmkasunich> I figure I should get the existing machine CNCed first
[20:31:11] <LawrenceG> even what I have works ok... the quill spring keeps most of the lash under control
[20:31:38] <jmkasunich> quill spring?
[20:31:53] <LawrenceG> for the original drill press mode
[20:32:09] <jmkasunich> oh, I see
[20:32:27] <jmkasunich> that takes the lash out of the clutch and worm only though, right?
[20:32:36] <jmkasunich> (the rack is preloaded only by its own weight)
[20:33:55] <LawrenceG> I long ago took off all the levers.... my machine came cnc'd, but I had to tighten up thez axis quite a bit... way too many non precision moving parts
[20:34:40] <jmkasunich> yeah, they are definitely a kit machine
[20:35:04] <jmkasunich> I pulled the entire Z mess off, covered the hole with a scrap of 1/16" aluminum
[20:35:55] <LawrenceG> I was thinking of adding one of those $100 x,y tables on a bridge type arrangement with a trim router as the spindle... that would allow cutting keyways on the lathe
[20:36:28] <jmkasunich> the table would move the router, not the workpiece?
[20:37:31] <LawrenceG> yes.. mount table in place of existing head... one axis would parallel X and the other would be the new Z
[20:38:07] <jmkasunich> oh I see - the bridge would go from the headstock all the way to the tailstock end
[20:38:17] <LawrenceG> kind of like the bridgeport copy machines
[20:38:29] <LawrenceG> yea
[20:39:33] <jmkasunich> making a rigid attachment to the machine base might be the hard part (at the tailstock end especially)
[20:40:18] <jmkasunich> I've been pondering ways to improve the pathetic rigidity for years
[20:40:25] <jmkasunich> most involve some kind of bridge
[20:40:33] <jmkasunich> but none seem easy, or worth the effort
[20:41:01] <LawrenceG> yes. when I picked up my machine, they had one modified with a bridge setup..
[20:41:04] <jmkasunich> everything I've consideded also involved making it possible to raise and lower the head - the Z travel sucks
[20:41:22] <jmkasunich> considered
[20:42:23] <LawrenceG> z is limited... its a real pain switching from milling pcb's to normal drilling.... I have a 4" thick riser I bolt to the table for mounting pcbs
[20:43:07] <jmkasunich> I managed to forget how much of a pita that is
[20:43:20] <jmkasunich> I've been using it exclusively as a lathe for a couple years now
[20:44:00] <jmkasunich> I do heavy milling on the Van Norman, and either avoid light milling, or do it on the VN as well
[20:44:08] <LawrenceG> bbl... got someone at the door
[22:09:04] <jepler> * jepler tries to find the motivation to look at condit's configuration files
[22:12:17] <jmkasunich> heh
[22:12:30] <jmkasunich> the problem with stepconf is that it makes configuring a machine easy
[22:12:55] <jmkasunich> iow, it puts configuring a machine in the reach of people who can't deal with problems
[22:15:09] <jepler> or maybe there's a bug
[22:16:00] <jepler> but how am I supposed to debug a config for a machine I don't own...?
[22:17:00] <jmkasunich> if the user tells it that all three axes are the same, and it generates a config with all three axes the same, and only one axis doesn't work, I doubt its a bug in stepconf
[22:17:46] <alex_joni> heh
[22:17:57] <jepler> they do have different max velocity values entered
[22:18:36] <jepler> hm and the stepconf ones have much higher accelerations configured
[22:18:51] <jmkasunich> ah, so he's probably stalling on accel
[22:19:03] <jepler> stepconf [AXIS_0]MAX_ACCELERATION = 30.0; old MAX_ACCELERATION = 20.0
[22:19:03] <jmkasunich> one axis might have less inertia and can handle the higher rate
[22:19:16] <jmkasunich> why the hell didn't he look at the files and find that
[22:19:17] <SWPadnos> how would stepconf know that?
[22:19:25] <jmkasunich> exactly!
[22:20:17] <SWPadnos> oh
[22:20:23] <SWPadnos> yay! do I get a cookie?
[22:21:25] <jepler> * jepler wanders off again
[22:21:45] <jepler> SWPadnos: oddly enough the neighbors just brought over their customary plate of christmas cookies
[22:21:48] <jepler> so help yourself
[22:21:53] <SWPadnos> damn you!
[22:22:00] <SWPadnos> all I have is this snickers bar
[22:22:01] <jepler> mmm homemade
[22:41:54] <tissf> hi
[22:43:38] <CIA-42> EMC: 03tissf 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/ (Master_HAL_fr.lyx Submakefile index.tmpl index_fr.tmpl): French translation
[22:43:46] <CIA-42> EMC: 03tissf 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/stepconf_fr.lyx: French translation
[22:43:48] <CIA-42> EMC: 03tissf 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/ (8 files): French translation