#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-10-30

[00:02:14] <tissf> good night all
[12:20:23] <tissf> hello all
[12:21:35] <jepler> hi tissf
[12:23:04] <tissf> jepler: There is something has to do to obtain the index (fr)?
[12:23:51] <jepler> there are a few more things I should make you aware of. The file docs/src/docs.xml lists the title of each document, and the order of lines in the file determine the order used by the "<" and ">" links at the top of each document. So you should go to <docgroup lang="fr"> and translate each document title, and add new lines there as you translate new documents.
[12:24:38] <jepler> the file terms.xml in the same directory gives the translation of terms like "Table of Contents" into other languages. You should fix up my probably-incorrect translations into french.
[12:26:22] <tissf> ok thank you I will look at that
[12:26:28] <jepler> I have been putting links to the translated documents in the file "index.tmpl" by just adding a link that says "(fr)". That's done in the file index.tmpl. Probably there should be an index_fr.tmpl or index_fr.html which contains links to all the french documentation with french titles.
[12:28:14] <jepler> lastly, not all the english documentation is of equal quality, accuracy or importance. I think you've chosen good documentation to begin translating, but maybe before you begin translating the next document we can talk on IRC about how up-to-date the english document is before you start.
[12:30:31] <tissf> sûre, Which is the document more finalized in your opinion?
[12:30:55] <alex_joni> I also think it's more important to provide a good french translation, then to keep a strict quide to the english one. so if you see that something is bogus in the english documentation, then maybe write it how it should be in french, and tell us about it
[12:31:17] <alex_joni> tissf: the HAL documentation is pretty good, only slightly (some commands and pictures) if at all outdated
[12:32:22] <jepler> Here are some documents I think it would be good to translate next: config/stepconf.lyx, gcode.html (one page summary of gcode language), gcode/main.lyx
[12:32:57] <tissf> Hal is the most delicate one to translate because of the terms than I must leave in English
[12:33:02] <jepler> the first two are very up-to-date, and I think most new users will want to read them. the last one is mostly up-to-date, and is needed when you're learning to program in gcode
[12:34:40] <tissf> I will continue with gcode, I found some bugs in stepconf I will await that it is stabilized
[12:35:42] <jepler> if you know about bugs in emc, you should talk about them here, or on the mailing list, or submit them as bugs on our sourceforge site.
[12:36:01] <jepler> but for now I have to go to work .. bbl
[12:36:26] <tissf> yes thank you, good work soon
[12:36:49] <jepler> oh, and when you see things in the documentation that make no sense or that you think might be inaccurate, don't hesitate to ask about those things too
[12:37:06] <tissf> sûre :)
[12:44:34] <tissf> alex_joni: I agree to make a good doc in french :)
[12:45:48] <tissf> I think it might be good to remake the images with the French GUI?
[12:46:12] <skunkworks_> and a french keyboard..
[12:46:49] <skunkworks_> morning
[12:47:19] <tissf> hello skunkworks
[12:48:10] <alex_joni> tissf: sure
[12:48:20] <alex_joni> you can add the pictures in the same way as the translation docs
[12:49:37] <tissf> Yes, keeping the names with just _fr
[12:52:31] <tissf> skunkworks: What about a french keyboard?
[12:55:04] <alex_joni> tissf: that was supposed to be a joke
[12:56:03] <tissf> ah sorry :)
[13:02:29] <jepler> tissf: yes, I also think the images in the documentation should be pictures of the french version when there is one
[13:12:34] <tissf> jepler: Ok I am going to do before continuing translations
[13:23:10] <owhite> /exit
[18:48:31] <tissf> in the AXIS status bar I can no longer see "Position: status", Normal ?
[18:55:28] <jepler> is it printing this error on the terminal window?
[18:55:28] <jepler> TCL error in asynchronous code:
[18:55:28] <jepler> bad menu entry index "Ladder Editor..."
[18:56:42] <jepler> ah yes, it's my mistake
[18:56:43] <alex_joni> yup
[18:58:52] <alex_joni> I don't think the spindle should be switched on when run-from-file is executed beyond a M03
[18:59:12] <alex_joni> (but I agree it shouldn't get stopped if it's already running..)
[18:59:32] <jepler> shouldn't it be stopped in auto mode without a program running?
[19:00:30] <cradek> switching modes stops the spindle, which is a bit of a thorn in my side
[19:00:51] <alex_joni> this should come from some configuration file
[19:00:53] <cradek> but, other modal things work with run-from-line, maybe spindle/lube/etc should
[19:01:02] <skunkworks_> I would think it would be nice to set all the previous modal m and gcodes to what they would be normally - before the start at line.
[19:01:18] <cradek> err coolant, not lube
[19:01:19] <jepler> but what things?
[19:01:27] <alex_joni> tool compensation?
[19:01:32] <skunkworks_> that is the question..
[19:01:43] <cradek> tool changes?
[19:01:46] <jepler> "on my machine, M101 starts the mumble, but with 'start from line' it's not started. In my mind, this is just like the case for the built in lube control words"
[19:02:06] <cradek> let's just remove 'run from line'
[19:02:12] <skunkworks_> heh
[19:02:25] <cradek> but seriously, what about tool changes
[19:02:26] <skunkworks_> problem solved..
[19:02:42] <cradek> for jon's machine, he loads tools manually but emc has to start the spindle...
[19:02:55] <alex_joni> cradek: *I* think who uses run-from-line should prepare the mahine to continue from there
[19:02:56] <cradek> but that's not good enough for a machine with a tool changer
[19:03:05] <alex_joni> load the appropiate tool, start the spindle, start coolant, etc
[19:03:09] <cradek> alex_joni: yes but I think you *can't* do that for the spindle
[19:03:12] <skunkworks_> either you have it do a tool change.. or you pop up a message "tool x is in the spindle but program is calling y"
[19:03:13] <alex_joni> (all done in manual or mdi)
[19:03:19] <alex_joni> cradek: then it needs to get fixed
[19:03:35] <cradek> I'm behind you if that's the approach you want to argue with jon :-)
[19:03:42] <alex_joni> ok..
[19:03:59] <cradek> I suggest fixing it first!
[19:04:41] <cradek> it often bothers me that I can't MDI S500M3 and then face a part by jogging, because as soon as I jog the spindle turns off
[19:06:13] <jepler> the problem there is that manual doesn't let you select the spindle speed you want..
[19:06:19] <cradek> I have to use F9 F12 F12 F12 F12 F12 instead
[19:06:27] <cradek> jepler: ^^
[19:06:36] <jepler> s/select/conveniently select/
[19:06:41] <cradek> yeah
[19:06:45] <jepler> if there was a place you could type "500" it would be just fine
[19:07:00] <cradek> could be.
[19:07:43] <cradek> but if I want it to stop everything, I hit escape. the rest of the time, I wish it wouldn't
[19:09:35] <cradek> and if we take alex's approach, we HAVE to allow this state to persist in at least mdi->auto or manual->auto
[19:10:21] <alex_joni> cradek: I would have a couple of settings in the ini
[19:10:30] <alex_joni> manual->mdi = STOP
[19:10:39] <alex_joni> mdi->auto = NM
[19:10:47] <alex_joni> auto->manual = STOP
[19:10:50] <cradek> alex_joni: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/149/336964653_01a3dee5b2_o.jpg?v=0
[19:10:52] <alex_joni> (or something like that)
[19:11:14] <alex_joni> lol
[19:11:42] <cradek> you hurt bunny whenever you add unnecessary configurability
[19:11:54] <alex_joni> I don't think it's unnecessary
[19:12:04] <alex_joni> because you want it one way, and other will want it some other way
[19:12:53] <cradek> I understand you feel that way, but I still think it's unnecessary
[19:14:02] <alex_joni> * alex_joni puts that feeling aside for now
[19:16:01] <jepler> is there any evidence that 'run from line' used to start the spindle in the case jon describes?
[19:16:18] <skunkworks_> on a side note.. Pre_Read_Gcode = "M3,M4,M5,M7,M8,M9" :)
[19:16:22] <jepler> if so it's not a (new) bug and I'm in favor of leaving the behavior unchanged
[19:16:26] <jepler> skunkworks_: what's that mean?
[19:16:44] <jepler> er, "if not"
[19:17:05] <cradek> jepler: I don't recall him saying that it used to do what he wants
[19:17:38] <jepler> at least for 2.2 that would be a new feature
[19:17:50] <jepler> er, I'm being unclear but I hope you know what I mean
[19:17:54] <skunkworks_> if we are talking configurable (sorry cradek) there could be an ini entry that would set certain codes that would be allowed to be set durring a run from line. (just throwing things out there.. You don't have to catch it..
[19:18:55] <skunkworks_> (from above the run_from_line line..)
[19:19:15] <skunkworks_> if that made sense
[19:19:46] <jepler> http://www.laflash.org/blogXtras/pancake_bunny.jpg
[19:19:46] <cradek> you mean a list of things to run even if they were before the run-from line?
[19:20:20] <cradek> http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/128347380320000000conservativecat.jpg
[19:20:34] <skunkworks_> yikes.
[19:20:42] <alex_joni> cradek is feeling very attached to animals today
[19:21:17] <cradek> I'm just being an idiot, sorry
[19:21:21] <cradek> (it comes naturally)
[19:21:32] <alex_joni> cradek: it's a nice change
[19:21:38] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to play some tennis
[19:21:42] <alex_joni> bbl
[19:22:26] <skunkworks_> cradek: yes
[19:22:47] <skunkworks_> like spindle on and coolant and whatever 'they want'
[19:23:39] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wants G1 but not G0
[19:24:09] <cradek> alex_joni: ?
[19:24:41] <cradek> what's a load cycle?
[19:24:48] <cradek> err
[19:26:28] <alex_joni> cradek: imagine a user filling out the list skunkworks_ suggested
[19:26:36] <alex_joni> things to be run while run-from-line
[19:26:44] <alex_joni> M3, M5, M7, M8 .. etc
[19:26:48] <alex_joni> and putting G1 in there
[19:27:56] <cradek> actually I can see wanting G0 but not G1... it would get you into the right place above the work (in a roundabout way)
[19:28:11] <cradek> but, surely we can all see that's insane :-)
[19:28:26] <cradek> I'm more and more in favor of your fix: let the user set up the machine as he wants in manual/mdi mode first
[19:28:51] <alex_joni> bbl.. about 2 houts
[19:28:54] <alex_joni> hours even
[19:29:10] <cradek> bye
[22:04:17] <alex_joni> back
[22:05:14] <tissf> hello Alex
[22:05:28] <alex_joni> salut tissf
[22:05:30] <alex_joni> ca va?
[22:05:36] <tissf> in the AXIS GUI status bar I can no longer see "Position: status", Normal ?
[22:05:46] <tissf> wow tu parles français ?
[22:06:12] <tissf> ça va bien, merci
[22:06:30] <tissf> et toi ?
[22:07:09] <alex_joni> oui, ca va bien
[22:07:25] <alex_joni> mais mon fraincais est un peux "limitee" ?
[22:07:38] <alex_joni> especially in written form :D
[22:08:45] <tissf> Ton français est moins limité que mon Anglais :) especially in speaking form :))
[22:10:19] <alex_joni> heh
[22:10:28] <tissf> just a question
[22:10:30] <alex_joni> je ne pense pas
[22:10:42] <tissf> in the AXIS GUI status bar I can no longer see "Position: status", Normal ?
[22:10:52] <alex_joni> tissf: jepler said it was a bug
[22:10:54] <alex_joni> and it was his fault
[22:11:02] <tissf> ok thank you
[22:11:04] <alex_joni> not sure if he got to fix it though
[22:11:21] <jepler> I fixed something earlier. You should see the fix after you "cvs up" and "make" again.
[22:11:34] <alex_joni> tissf: for the future.. just ask your question, don't ask if you can ask
[22:11:44] <alex_joni> if you are in here, then it's ok to ask questions :)
[22:11:46] <tissf> :)
[22:12:11] <alex_joni> btw, it's sometimes the case, that no-one is around
[22:12:27] <alex_joni> in that case it's still easier to ask a question, and leave your IRC client connected
[22:12:40] <alex_joni> when there's someone around, they will usually answer (even if later)
[22:13:39] <alex_joni> jepler: seems CIA is not really working lately
[22:13:45] <tissf> ok
[22:14:40] <jepler> alex_joni: I've noticed
[22:14:59] <alex_joni> wonder if it isn't quieted maybe?
[22:16:08] <jepler> the commits are showing in the emc planet: http://unpy.net/planet-emc/
[22:17:08] <alex_joni> yeah, they also appear on cia.vc
[22:17:17] <alex_joni> so I wonder if it's not bot-specific
[22:18:57] <tissf> alex_joni: if you can read french language, take a look at my blog: http://borderousse.no-ip.org all in french but.. local server a bit slow !
[22:19:43] <alex_joni> tissf: I will try
[22:20:05] <jepler> tissf: by the way, in terms.xml the <term id="up"> is "Up: Documentation Index" in english. The "T" must have been a typo I put in.
[22:20:56] <jepler> * jepler tries reading tissf's blog too
[22:21:45] <tissf> ah ok
[22:21:51] <jepler> * jepler tries to figure out what a micro-fraiesuse is
[22:22:09] <tissf> small mill
[22:22:11] <jepler> ah
[22:22:31] <jepler> I thought fraises = strawberries
[22:22:43] <jepler> so you can understand my confusion
[22:24:24] <jepler> bbl
[22:24:25] <tissf> Yes the french term for "mill" is "fraise" Fraise in english is strawberries :)
[22:25:45] <alex_joni> tissf: nice telescope
[22:26:11] <alex_joni> heh, I didn't even notice the fraiseuse
[22:26:21] <alex_joni> we call it freza in romanian :D
[22:26:19] <tissf> wich one ?
[22:26:38] <alex_joni> tissf: l'ancien ;)
[22:27:42] <tissf> you are polyglote alex
[22:28:27] <alex_joni> well.. I learned some french in highschool
[22:28:50] <tissf> le nouveau est mieux :http://borderousse.no-ip.org/www/coppermine/index.php?cat=18
[22:29:55] <alex_joni> heh.. skunkworks here also tried a green laser with his telescope
[22:30:59] <tissf> not good when it is cold
[22:31:37] <tissf> removed
[22:32:14] <tissf> How is the debit of my waiter for you?
[22:32:31] <tissf> How is the debit of my server for you? oops
[22:32:35] <alex_joni> seems ok..
[22:33:11] <alex_joni> tissf: I just read how you make your PCB's.. nice stuff (especially the touch-off/probing part)
[22:33:33] <tissf> high tech probe :)
[22:33:58] <alex_joni> it does the job, so it's high tech enough :D
[22:34:16] <tissf> sure
[22:36:20] <alex_joni> is that your pool?
[22:36:31] <alex_joni> "la piscine d'etienne" ?
[22:37:05] <tissf> Nono the one of my brother
[22:37:17] <alex_joni> oh.. still, very nice :)
[22:37:24] <alex_joni> tissf: where are you located?
[22:37:55] <alex_joni> (there's a weather link "chez les tex" which says your about 70 km from la rochelle
[22:39:11] <tissf> 80km south of Orléans, 250 km south of Paris, my brother lives in the northeast
[22:39:22] <alex_joni> I was in La rochelle this summer
[22:39:54] <tissf> wow you know all my family now :)
[22:40:17] <alex_joni> only one week .. but it was very nice
[22:40:21] <tissf> La rochelle is 150km west of here
[22:40:31] <alex_joni> actually I stayed in Aytre, close to la rochelle
[22:41:17] <tissf> ah ok
[22:41:57] <alex_joni> it was nice.. weather wasn't the best, and the atlantic ocean was really cold for my taste :D
[22:43:33] <tissf> sure Especially this summer
[22:44:51] <tissf> I put out my telescope 3 times due to rain: (
[22:45:31] <alex_joni> in winter the air is clearer :)
[22:46:05] <tissf> yes but..
[22:46:58] <tissf> Here the climate is humid
[22:47:30] <alex_joni> I noticed :D
[22:48:35] <tissf> d)
[22:48:56] <tissf> how you make this smyley ?
[22:49:02] <tissf> p)
[22:49:02] <tissf> no
[22:49:06] <alex_joni> : D
[22:49:09] <tissf> D
[22:49:13] <tissf> D)
[22:49:17] <tissf> no
[22:49:23] <alex_joni> :D = : D (without the space)
[22:49:34] <tissf> :D
[22:49:53] <tissf> ahhhhhhh :D:D
[22:50:02] <tissf> no
[22:50:04] <alex_joni> (it depends on the irc client.. mine only shows letters and :)
[22:50:20] <tissf> :D
[22:50:20] <tissf> ok
[22:50:26] <tissf> :=
[22:50:29] <tissf> ok
[22:50:35] <tissf> :)
[22:51:23] <tissf> Well I will end my snapshoots
[22:59:56] <alex_joni> tissf: bon nuit
[23:00:16] <alex_joni> je suis un peux fatiguee, et il est 1am :)
[23:00:33] <tissf> bonne nuit aussi Alex, merci pour ton aide
[23:00:54] <tissf> tu es en Europe ?
[23:01:25] <alex_joni> oui, roumanie
[23:01:46] <tissf> ah ok on est voisins :D
[23:02:00] <alex_joni> voisins?
[23:02:21] <tissf> neighbors
[23:02:38] <alex_joni> ah, not that close.. but yeah :)
[23:02:50] <tissf> good night