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[02:38:02] <jepler> to whom it may concern: use of your software requires the ability to distinguish the 26 uppercase characters, the 26 lowercase characters, the ten numeric characters, and sundry punctuation and whitespace. I find this onerous.
[02:40:46] <cradek> arrgh
[02:40:58] <cradek> don't respond don't respond don't respond
[02:44:07] <SWPadnos> wHat r utalk1ng about
[02:44:49] <cradek> why do people tolerate fonts which don't let them tell all the letters apart?
[02:44:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:45:14] <SWPadnos> I often have a hard time with lower case L and numeral 1
[02:45:15] <cradek> isn't that the most basic function of a font?
[02:45:29] <cradek> why do you tolerate the font then?
[02:45:48] <SWPadnos> most fonts that are useful for programming are not the same ones that look pretty for other things, such as text documents and email
[02:46:17] <SWPadnos> proportional fonts are great for other apps, since you can generally tell from context whether you're looking at a 1 or an l
[02:46:32] <SWPadnos> but I'd have to look at everything in courier
[02:46:35] <SWPadnos> hate
[02:52:52] <jepler> * jepler <-- reads e-mail in a fixed-width font with very distinct Il1
[02:53:06] <jepler> but I do notice that the default sans font in firefox doesn't do Il very distinctly
[02:53:35] <SWPadnos> I sometimes find myself copying text into a programming editor to see what it really is
[02:54:29] <jepler> yeah -- before I remembered that some people don't connect all their computers to the internet (heresy!) I was asking myself, why didn't you just copy 'halcmd -I' into the terminal?
[02:55:12] <SWPadnos> and there I was thinking "how can you not distinguish between an I and a 1? I mean, 1 and l sure, but I?? :)
[02:56:56] <SWPadnos> hmmm: Il1
[02:57:34] <jepler> 'Jobo today announced its latest portable storage device - The GIGA one ultra'
[02:57:39] <jepler> man I gotta get me a Jobo GIGA one ultra
[02:57:51] <SWPadnos> no, a Drobo!
[02:58:22] <jepler> 'night
[02:58:27] <SWPadnos> see you
[13:56:29] <skunkworks> join ubuntu
[13:57:33] <cradek> * cradek points at skunkworks
[13:58:03] <skunkworks> sorry - missed the /
[13:58:20] <cradek> I know - just making fun
[13:58:22] <cradek> how's it going?
[13:58:23] <skunkworks> it happens quite often - I blame the keyboard.
[13:58:29] <skunkworks> Good - busy.
[13:58:47] <skunkworks> although it has been raining here for the last 3 days
[13:59:14] <cradek> yeah, here too
[13:59:17] <cradek> it might finally be dry today
[14:00:09] <skunkworks> I ended up taking the engine out of the subaru this weekend as the local tech school (were the wife works) is in need of engines to overhaul.
[14:00:32] <skunkworks> it went suprisingly smooth. - other than dumping a quart of transmission fluid on the ground.
[14:00:52] <cradek> uh, did it need an overhaul or are you just being helpful?
[14:01:35] <skunkworks> yes - the thing has a major oil leak (quart a week) and it has piston slap which is a bit embarassing.
[14:01:58] <skunkworks> it wasn't one of our best purchases
[14:02:29] <cradek> cool, a free rebuild will be nice then
[14:02:30] <skunkworks> the tech school was excited because it is an 'odd' engine (flat 4)
[14:02:46] <skunkworks> we have to pay for parts - but still.
[14:03:13] <cradek> what parts? rings, gaskets?
[14:03:33] <skunkworks> full overhaul - including pistons and boring.
[14:03:41] <cradek> ah!
[14:03:46] <cradek> still, that's not much I bet
[14:04:11] <cradek> hmm, wish I had done that with my "beloved" toyota...
[14:04:35] <skunkworks> the last I checked - overhaul kit with pistons was around $700 - I am hoping they can get a better deal - but still not bad when long blocks cost 2800
[14:05:13] <cradek> wow, that seems like a lot
[14:05:25] <skunkworks> yah - it isn't a chevy 350 ;)
[14:06:00] <cradek> I checked out pricing for a crate engine for my toyota - iirc it was like $4k
[14:06:00] <skunkworks> how about you - still liking the mill?
[14:06:23] <skunkworks> what year toyota?
[14:06:30] <cradek> 91 MR2
[14:06:40] <cradek> my favorite car ever
[14:06:44] <cradek> (not very practical though)
[14:07:02] <skunkworks> cool. the wifes brother had a mr2 - he pronounced it mr. 2
[14:07:27] <cradek> mine's long gone, I traded it in a few years ago
[14:07:34] <skunkworks> he is 6'4 so I can't imagine him in one..
[14:08:00] <skunkworks> that was a mid engine 2 seater - wasn't it?
[14:08:04] <cradek> yeah there's not a lot of headroom. the VW is better for tall people
[14:08:06] <cradek> yes
[14:08:34] <skunkworks> I had a pontiac fiero for a while. fun but underpowered.
[14:08:37] <cradek> 26 mpg every tank, no matter what you do to it
[14:08:42] <skunkworks> heh
[14:09:36] <cradek> my current 12 year newer car gets worse mileage than that, but has much more power
[14:10:08] <cradek> actually I get about 24-29 depending on the conditions
[14:10:14] <cradek> could be better :-/
[14:10:43] <cradek> when I was in high school, a lot of people had fieros, they were really popular for a bit but must not have lasted because you don't see them now
[14:11:11] <skunkworks> we bought a new toyota - 06 maybe - and it gets 36mpg. very happy with it.
[14:11:24] <cradek> nice
[14:11:44] <skunkworks> (it is supposed to get 41 - but I think the highest we have ever seen is 38)
[14:11:53] <cradek> those ratings are pretty optimistic
[14:12:10] <skunkworks> we put 30k on and we have only had it a year so far :(
[14:12:32] <cradek> when I look for a car, I start out looking for something with good mileage, but then I drive something powerful/sporty and decide to get that instead :-)
[14:12:51] <cradek> but I like very small cars so I can get some of both
[14:13:34] <skunkworks> thats not good :) - I have not driven my stealth for about a year now. It gets around 24mpg if I keep my foot out of it. I can get as low as 10mpg with the thing and it take premium.
[14:13:54] <cradek> ha
[14:14:03] <cradek> better sell it sooner rather than later
[14:14:20] <skunkworks> yah. it needs a few things fixed and it will be up for sale.
[14:14:33] <cradek> my dad just bought a new (!) full size truck that gets 17 highway
[14:14:41] <cradek> he mostly drives it to work
[14:14:45] <cradek> I think he's crazy
[14:14:55] <cradek> but, lots of people drive those big things for everyday stuff
[14:15:16] <cradek> oops, brb
[14:15:33] <skunkworks> my father bought a scion - (the toaster looking car).. We drove it to the cnc workshop. He really likes it and it gets 36 or so mpg also.
[14:22:30] <jepler> I'm considering a honda fit which is also supposed to have fuel efficiency in the upper 30s .. the back seat is fairly roomy too, for a guy my size.
[14:24:08] <skunkworks> Yes - the guy here at work has been looking at the fit. the seating is very flexable.
[14:24:27] <skunkworks> you can fit a lot of stuff in it.
[14:24:54] <jepler> that's certainly one of the gimmicks, and my friend who has one seemed pretty happy about that part too
[14:25:46] <skunkworks> the only thing he really didn't like was the road noise.
[14:27:02] <skunkworks> I sat in the back of one and thought it was roomy also.
[14:27:26] <cradek> jepler: if you get a small car, maybe you won't be stuck driving us all around all the time
[14:28:47] <jepler> cradek: no, I'll be stuck in the back seat of someone else's not-quite-roomy-enough car instead
[14:28:48] <skunkworks> the guy here mainly wants a vehicle that he can carry his not yet purchased 17in telescope.
[14:28:59] <jepler> it's purely selfish that I want to drive to work every day
[14:29:04] <cradek> jepler: oh right, I didn't think of it that way.
[14:29:06] <jepler> er, drive to lunch
[14:29:13] <cradek> ok then
[14:29:25] <skunkworks> is that settled?
[14:29:35] <skunkworks> ;)
[14:29:50] <jepler> no, I haven't decided whether to buy the model with the cruise control yet
[14:29:59] <skunkworks> heh
[14:30:04] <cradek> of course you should
[14:30:12] <cradek> (are you kidding?)
[14:30:15] <skunkworks> * skunkworks still can't believe they sell cars still without cruise
[14:30:21] <jepler> the problem is, that only comes on the model they call "sport" which has some dorky body differences
[14:30:29] <cradek> oh, haha
[14:30:44] <skunkworks> dads scion needed an aftermarket cruise installed as they don't come from the factory with one.
[14:30:47] <cradek> oh btw, get air conditioning too
[14:30:52] <skunkworks> heh
[14:30:59] <cradek> skunkworks: that's very bizarre
[14:31:22] <cradek> I added (factory) cruise to my mustang - it was a very huge pain
[14:31:41] <skunkworks> the toyota corrola came with it..
[14:31:41] <cradek> you have to take a wheel and body parts off!
[14:32:11] <cradek> because part of it goes inside the fender... unbelievable
[14:33:54] <cradek> with modern drive-by-wire cars, cruise control is a few buttons and some software - I don't understand why they wouldn't always include it
[14:34:41] <jepler> "I hadn't heard that anyone has released an aftermarket cruise solution that works with the drive-by-wire throttle of the Fit. Are you aware of one, and if so, can you share the make, model info?"
[14:34:50] <jepler> -- teh intarwebs
[14:35:01] <cradek> yep
[14:35:16] <cradek> aftermarket cruises are soon going to be a thing of the past
[14:35:38] <cradek> it's no longer just a speed sensor + thing to pull the throttle cable
[14:35:45] <skunkworks> */ I hacked my honda to run linux.... */
[14:38:31] <fenn> you all laugh now...
[14:38:56] <jepler> 'It sounds quick too; the bassy VTEC buzz reverberates through the cabin whenever the mini mill crests 3500 rpm. Let's reiterate; the Fit's 16-valver motorvates 2471 lbs. with 105 ft.-lbs. of torque. Little dog, big bite. Make that nip; the Fit's fast-acting drive-by-wire throttle is a price point bonus.' -- wow, this shit is unreadable and also I have no idea what it means (from thetruthaboutcars.com)
[14:39:39] <cradek> I understand "the engine noise reverberates through the cabin"
[14:39:52] <cradek> I'm not sure it's a good thing though
[14:39:56] <fenn> well how else are you supposed to make a car sound exciting but by using strange language
[14:40:14] <cradek> "motorvates"?
[14:41:04] <fenn> it's a compound backrortmanteau
[14:41:15] <Guest187> Guest187 is now known as shunkworks_
[14:41:25] <shunkworks_> shunk?
[14:41:30] <shunkworks_> shunkworks_ is now known as skunkworks_
[14:43:10] <skunkworks_> jepler: you know once you have the power of the v-tech your going to have to mount a big wing and huge exhaust tip..
[14:43:24] <cradek> haha
[14:43:41] <cradek> you can make a good wing from an old ironing board
[14:44:06] <cradek> they look especially great on a hatchback
[14:44:14] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:44:45] <fenn> why does he call it a mini mill?
[14:45:03] <cradek> ?
[14:45:31] <fenn> "bassy VTEC buzz reverberates through the cabin whenever the mini mill crests 3500 rpm"
[14:45:55] <cradek> oh...
[14:45:56] <fenn> does it come with CNC built in?
[14:46:54] <Guest187> Guest187 is now known as skunkworks_
[14:47:05] <skunkworks_> sorry. router woes.
[14:47:28] <fenn> jepler: little spoilers like that can significantly redeuce wind noise at highway speeds
[14:48:02] <skunkworks_> mill can be used as powerplant. so - small engine.
[14:48:05] <skunkworks_> mini mill
[14:48:19] <fenn> i've never heard of a car engine called a mill
[14:48:27] <skunkworks_> it is a stretch
[14:58:12] <skunkworks_> skunkworks_ is now known as skunkworks
[15:09:38] <rayh> Is trunk the code for 2.2 or am I just not seeing a branch?
[15:09:52] <cradek> there is not a branch yet
[15:10:22] <cradek> to prevent duplicated effort, we're going to make the branch and 2.2.0 at the same time
[15:10:33] <rayh> Okay so it will be extracted from the current trunk.
[15:10:38] <rayh> Okay.
[15:10:40] <cradek> yes
[15:10:46] <rayh> Thanks
[15:10:51] <cradek> welcome
[15:53:05] <skunkworks> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=573980
[15:55:57] <jepler> Need to get 512MB of archives.
[15:56:01] <jepler> -- upgrading my gutsy machine
[15:55:59] <jepler> ouch
[15:56:06] <jepler> oh well
[16:05:16] <jepler> style question: "feed rate" or "feedrate"?
[16:05:50] <cradek> no preference
[16:06:36] <jepler> looks like "feed rate" is already more widely used in the documentation
[16:07:32] <SWPadnos> probably feed rate and traverse rate
[16:07:48] <SWPadnos> rather than feedrate and traverserate
[16:07:51] <SWPadnos> :)
[16:35:23] <cradek> transvestite?
[16:37:12] <fenn> frederator?
[16:57:53] <SWPadnos> you know, I just realized that Omaha is in the same state as Lincoln
[16:58:28] <SWPadnos> for some reason, I had pictured Stuart's shop as being somewhere near Jon E - like St. Louis or something
[17:50:33] <alex_joni> evening
[17:50:42] <skunkworks> Hi alex
[17:50:54] <alex_joni> hi samco
[17:51:05] <skunkworks> how is it going?
[17:51:03] <rayh> Hi Alex
[17:56:17] <alex_joni> hi ray
[17:56:20] <alex_joni> long time no see
[17:56:28] <alex_joni> skunkworks: pretty good actually
[17:57:07] <skunkworks> alex_joni: good :)
[18:07:50] <cradek> stuart's in wichita, not omaha
[18:10:07] <SWPadnos> hey - maybe that's part of my confusion
[18:10:17] <SWPadnos> I must have been thinking about the steaks instead ;)
[18:10:25] <cradek> only a part, if you didn't know about lincoln and omaha...
[18:10:55] <SWPadnos> well, I knew they were in the same state, but it didn't matter unless I thought I knew people in both cities
[18:11:10] <cradek> ah I see
[19:33:39] <alex_joni> anyone around?
[19:36:48] <cradek> just us chickens
[19:41:48] <alex_joni> heh..
[19:41:57] <alex_joni> how does this look:
http://sudura.ro/joomla/index.php
[19:49:08] <SWPadnos> looks good. the banner text (welcome ...) does funny things with very narrow windows
[19:49:51] <SWPadnos> also, if you increase the font size, the banner doesn't get taller, so the text wraps over the top set of links
[19:50:25] <alex_joni> hmm.. yeah
[19:50:40] <alex_joni> the narrow window I can fix with a minimum width
[19:54:44] <cradek> alex_joni: that's a big improvement
[19:56:02] <alex_joni> still fighting with the right div
[19:56:27] <alex_joni> it doesn't want to get alongside with the content div
[19:56:39] <alex_joni> (the one with polls in it)
[19:59:17] <cradek> yeah I assumed you'd fix that :-)
[19:59:30] <cradek> and the spelling of 'powerful' too, heh
[20:14:01] <cradek> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=30-410-003&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0
[20:14:09] <cradek> hey look at that
[20:15:18] <skunkworks> you should get one ;)
[20:16:14] <cradek> if I do any mass production I'm going to have to make shields like that
[20:18:14] <skunkworks> sounds like a plan.
[20:18:42] <alex_joni> cradek: better now?
[20:18:48] <cradek> it's nice to have flood coolant but I still need to do something with the output
[20:19:01] <cradek> currently it runs out the back hole in the table into a trash can :-)
[20:19:31] <alex_joni> you need a filter + recirculation pump
[20:19:41] <cradek> alex_joni: the white rectangle goes partway behind the poll
[20:19:54] <cradek> yeah, I know I should filter it but I haven't used enough to care
[20:20:22] <cradek> I have 5 gals, dilute 20:1 => not worth filtering
[20:20:40] <alex_joni> cradek: don't know enough about div's and css :/
[20:20:43] <cradek> the problem is using it all up before it goes off
[20:21:21] <skunkworks> K&T
http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=30-384-002&searchtable=2&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=1
[20:21:36] <cradek> alex_joni: the black rectangle with the © in it does the right thing, just copy that
[20:22:19] <cradek> skunkworks: that looks like a real beast
[20:22:23] <alex_joni> cradek: you mean like this?
[20:22:31] <skunkworks> yes - almost looks like the spindle tilts?
[20:23:39] <cradek> alex_joni: perfect
[20:23:57] <alex_joni> I still would like a min-width on the main content
[20:24:05] <alex_joni> so it doesn't get resized further
[20:24:14] <cradek> I think css has that...
[20:24:27] <alex_joni> that was what was there before
[20:24:37] <alex_joni> (why the white stuff stayed behind)
[20:24:41] <cradek> oh
[20:24:53] <cradek> this is better then...
[20:43:33] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/
[20:44:24] <skunkworks> alex_joni: by chance have you tried it on ie?
[20:44:51] <alex_joni> trying now :D
[20:45:07] <alex_joni> is it bad?
[20:45:12] <cradek> iieeeeee!
[20:45:28] <skunkworks> the top pane is a little odd.
[20:45:35] <alex_joni> yeah, that.. I'll fix it
[20:45:47] <skunkworks> it has to be expanded out pretty far before you can read it
[20:45:52] <skunkworks> ah - ok
[20:49:03] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/11078
[20:50:00] <alex_joni> skunkworks: better now?
[20:51:10] <skunkworks> Yes - although the space between the upper left penguin pick and the vertical bar could be reduced.
[20:52:45] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/11079\
[20:52:47] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/11079
[20:53:29] <skunkworks> maybe so it lines up with the news divider if possible.
[20:53:32] <alex_joni> skunkworks: what's your resolution?
[20:54:06] <skunkworks> 1280X1024 but that wasn't full screen.
[20:54:37] <skunkworks> 949X727 was the ie size
[20:54:59] <alex_joni> http://imagebin.org/11080
[20:55:05] <alex_joni> that's how it looks for me
[20:55:34] <alex_joni> aligning the vert bar with the news divider would leave a lot of empty space..
[20:55:39] <skunkworks> yes the bar moves across the larger the window
[20:56:20] <alex_joni> it's placed at 40% of the width
[20:56:25] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/irc/konqueror.png
[20:56:49] <fenn> custom css :P
[20:57:06] <alex_joni> yucky browser :P
[20:57:15] <alex_joni> but it looks surprisingly good :)
[20:58:27] <alex_joni> I just *love* the *feature* of IE to remove content when you resize it too small
[20:59:39] <fenn> it's "dynamic level of detail"
[20:59:51] <fenn> it saves pixels
[21:00:17] <alex_joni> yeah, well.. it sucks
[21:00:25] <skunkworks> this is full screen
http://imagebin.org/11081
[21:00:46] <alex_joni> skunkworks: looks good to me
[21:03:06] <skunkworks> The only thing I don't 'like' (and no I cannot fix it myself) is the vertical bar on the left side of the 'welcome' title looks odd to me.. but I may be goofy in the head
[21:04:42] <fenn> hmm.. probably both
[21:05:10] <skunkworks> :)
[21:06:08] <alex_joni> better without?
[21:07:35] <fenn> in narrow windows, the home page flows into the right column, but this doesnt happen on other pages
[21:07:35] <skunkworks> I think it might - it looks like it is crowding the welcome text to the right.
[21:08:12] <alex_joni> fenn: didn't understand that
[21:08:54] <fenn> i guess there is a minimum word wrap width, and it's larger for the first page on linuxcnc.org
[21:09:24] <alex_joni> bet it's because of the picture
[21:09:35] <fenn> yeah
[21:10:09] <alex_joni> does the same on basic install (which also has a pic)
[21:11:25] <skunkworks> ie does this :(
http://imagebin.org/11082
[21:11:28] <skunkworks> yeck
[21:11:48] <fenn> not sure which is worse
[21:20:51] <skunkworks> fenn: how is the simulation coming?
[21:21:15] <alex_joni> ok, I'm about to head to bed.. shoud I leave this template? or the old one (fixed width)?
[21:21:59] <fenn> skunkworks: its about the same as yesterday, but has a nifty text overlay now
[21:22:30] <skunkworks> alex_joni: I would leave it and see if we get feedback..
[21:22:48] <skunkworks> but that is just me..
[21:22:56] <fenn> i've been building usb avr programmers today mostly
[21:23:11] <fenn> and i read "the little prince". its a lot better than i expected
[21:25:09] <fenn> skunkworks: feel free to try it out
[21:25:38] <fenn> go to configs/hexapod-sim/ and then do ../../scripts/emc minitetra.ini
[21:25:40] <alex_joni> * alex_joni finished another terry pratchett book
[21:27:57] <fenn> i tried reading the light fantastic but got too disgusted at the author's attempts to be clever to finish it
[21:28:46] <alex_joni> some are quite funny, if you don't try to take them too seriously
[21:29:19] <fenn> i had just finished 'ringworld' and expected something similar.. i think i got the authors confused
[21:29:38] <fenn> so.. a bit different from hard SF
[21:30:17] <alex_joni> haha, definately
[21:35:43] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:36:14] <fenn> nite
