#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-10-05

[03:26:37] <SWPadnos> somebody needs to tell jon about the "net" command :)
[03:29:00] <cradek> at stuart's I tried to figure out the interaction between the ppmc estop hardware and the strange estop latch setup with 'and' gate he has in there - I still have no clue
[03:29:56] <cradek> I didn't care for the way his estop chain worked, but ran out of time before I was able to figure out enough to "fix" it
[03:30:23] <SWPadnos> I don't know if he ever added the estop input as a normal bit into HAL
[03:30:42] <SWPadnos> but his hardware stops when a fault comes in on input 15
[03:30:50] <SWPadnos> (which is a good thing)
[03:31:14] <SWPadnos> it used to be that you couldn't see the state of that input bit though
[03:31:26] <SWPadnos> and may still be
[03:31:46] <cradek> what it realy needed was some documentation... it was really glossed over in the manual stuart had
[03:32:10] <SWPadnos> yep. like many of us, Jon's strong point is not his documentation
[03:32:39] <cradek> yeah, it's a curse.
[03:34:46] <fenn> the nice thing about open source is that the code is automatically documented (in C) :)
[03:35:01] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, sometimes it's documented in tcl
[03:36:24] <cradek> yeah, unfortunately that doesn't apply to the ppmc estop hardware...
[03:36:32] <SWPadnos> err - right
[03:36:58] <SWPadnos> ok, it looks as though he did make the estop input available to HAL - that's a good thing
[03:42:57] <SWPadnos> how do iocontrol.user-request-enable and iocontrol.user-enable-out work?
[03:52:02] <cradek> yes that's the $1000 question
[03:52:31] <SWPadnos> isn't user-request-enable essentially the state of the "machine on" button in the GUI?
[03:52:50] <cradek> no I don't think that's exactly right
[03:52:55] <SWPadnos> ie, when you click it, the user-request-enable HAL pin turns on
[03:52:57] <SWPadnos> hmm
[03:53:12] <SWPadnos> or it's a one-shot from that action (F2 / button press)
[03:53:15] <cradek> they don't quite follow one another
[03:53:18] <cradek> yeah something like that
[03:53:34] <cradek> I thought I had a grasp a while back but I forget the details.
[03:53:42] <SWPadnos> me too
[03:54:12] <SWPadnos> I just drew a diagram of the estop stuff from Jon, and it would make sense if I knew what the motion controller pins do
[03:54:35] <cradek> if you figure that out [insert plea for wiki documentation here]
[03:54:48] <cradek> or the real documentation
[04:18:09] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=browse&id=Sample_HAL_And_ClassicLadder&revision=21
[04:18:33] <SWPadnos> apparently, the user-request-enable is a "short duration output" when emc-enable-out goes true
[04:28:54] <cradek> somewhere I saw one of those hooked to a oneshot to get a pulse for latching some ladder rung
[04:29:13] <cradek> demo-sim-cl maybe
[04:29:19] <SWPadnos> that may have been before user-request-enable was added
[04:29:22] <cradek> could be
[04:29:32] <cradek> also, ladder has edge switches now
[04:29:35] <SWPadnos> that was only done in the last year or so I think - partly for halui
[04:30:42] <SWPadnos> the complexity with the USC is that the hardware has something like the estop-latch in it
[04:31:18] <SWPadnos> when you set DOUT7 true, that resets the hardware estop for "a little while"
[04:31:57] <SWPadnos> if the estop input (DIN-15) is not asserted within that time, then the USC stays active. if the estop is asserted, then DOUT7 turns off, and the unit remains in estop
[04:32:11] <SWPadnos> at least that's how I think it works
[04:38:46] <SWPadnos> ok. it's bedtime for me. have fun making chips fly 8 feet :)
[13:53:42] <cradek> in the old days (haha) we had some weekend-long pushes to get ready for a big release. I wonder if we still have that in us
[13:54:24] <cradek> (I guess I should only speak for myself...)
[13:55:45] <skunkworks> I am hoping to get the 7kva transformer hooked up..
[13:57:17] <cradek> what's that for?
[13:57:29] <skunkworks> remember the K&T project?
[13:57:44] <skunkworks> It will be running the servo drives
[13:57:53] <cradek> ah
[13:58:19] <skunkworks> should come out to around 150v
[14:03:17] <cradek> be careful - sounds like scary work
[14:03:46] <skunkworks> snap crackle pop
[14:27:07] <alex_joni> cradek: I think we might have it in us
[14:27:17] <alex_joni> (but for a limited number of releases :D)
[14:27:57] <cradek> skunkworks: my servo amps are 100V 14A continuous, 30A peak, how much transformer do you think I need to run them on single phase 220?
[14:30:25] <alex_joni> at least 4000 VA I think
[14:30:28] <cradek> alex_joni: ah it says in the manual they had a 4KW transformer
[14:30:39] <cradek> (for single phase operation)
[14:30:43] <cradek> the 3 phase is 6KW
[14:30:44] <alex_joni> sounds about right :D
[14:30:51] <skunkworks> nice
[14:30:51] <skunkworks> :)
[14:31:10] <alex_joni> that's one heavy transformer
[14:31:13] <cradek> any thoughts on where I should look for one?
[14:31:17] <alex_joni> * alex_joni exchanged a couple of those
[14:31:37] <alex_joni> cradek: I have a 3-phase 380 -> 380 (about 4-5kW) one
[14:31:44] <alex_joni> it also outputs 220V
[14:32:09] <alex_joni> but it's probably way too heavy for shipping to the US :)
[14:32:22] <cradek> alex_joni: I have a 3 phase that's fine, but I want to run it on single phase instead
[14:32:24] <skunkworks> so you need a 70v - correct?
[14:32:40] <cradek> skunkworks: yes 220 in, 70 out
[14:33:30] <cradek> probably I should get new (modern) diodes and caps too
[14:33:41] <cradek> the peak currents (and ripple) will be higher
[14:35:02] <alex_joni> 220 in <- isn't that 3phase over there?
[14:35:54] <cradek> a normal house has two phases of 120 for normal stuff, and you use both to get 220-240 for things like the clothes dryer and electric oven
[14:36:07] <skunkworks> alex_joni: yes and no. normal house feed is 220 single phase
[14:36:08] <alex_joni> eww.. really?
[14:36:28] <skunkworks> we have 220 3phase at the shop
[14:36:56] <cradek> I can't get 3 phase without paying for a mile or two of wire to be installed :-)
[14:39:20] <skunkworks> hmmm - wonder if this would work.. http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007100509325291&item=15-1161&catname=
[14:39:50] <skunkworks> if it would do a divide by 4 :)
[14:40:27] <cradek> 135 lb!!
[14:40:40] <skunkworks> if you could wire the primary for 440 and hook in 220
[14:40:47] <skunkworks> you would get around 60v
[14:41:31] <skunkworks> I think a 4kva transformer is going to weigh about that :)
[14:41:33] <cradek> wonder if it has taps to adjust the output, that's 85 which is a little low
[14:41:59] <skunkworks> either that or buy a buck boost transformer ;)
[14:44:45] <cradek> it says the DC bus should be 90-100
[14:44:54] <cradek> that's a pretty small target to hit
[14:45:21] <cradek> haha, it also says the polarity should be correct
[14:47:01] <skunkworks> ouch
[14:47:03] <cradek> "The single phase designs have a 144VAC center-tapped secondary, and a dual primary of 120VAC."
[14:49:50] <skunkworks> so 144/2=72v?
[14:51:38] <cradek> yeah guess so
[14:51:51] <cradek> 72 sqrt 2 = 102
[14:51:56] <cradek> (unloaded)
[14:54:53] <skunkworks> when I was a kid - I would take transformers apart and wire them for what I wanted...
[14:54:58] <skunkworks> :)
[14:55:07] <cradek> I've done that too
[14:55:21] <cradek> but I could never get the laminates to not buzz afterward
[14:59:13] <skunkworks> sounds like your drives are louder... :)
[14:59:21] <cradek> true
[14:59:24] <cradek> they make quite a racket
[14:59:39] <cradek> manual says undervoltage dropout is 55, overvoltage is 122
[14:59:59] <cradek> that's a lot more comforting than the 90-100 thing
[15:01:53] <skunkworks> heh
[15:01:54] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/SCR-Drive-Electrical-Transformer-DT661H11S-11-KVA-GS_W0QQitemZ260166957397QQihZ016QQcategoryZ4665QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[15:01:58] <skunkworks> hmmm
[15:02:12] <skunkworks> 11kva :)
[15:14:55] <skunkworks> oops - 3 phase. I keep forgetting
[15:45:46] <SWPadnos> bummer. DHL tried to deliver my new laptop at 9:10 this morning
[15:45:53] <SWPadnos> while I was asleep :(
[15:51:07] <cradek> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150167653275
[15:51:50] <SWPadnos> that will cost a lot to ship
[15:51:52] <SWPadnos> (!)
[15:52:23] <cradek> yeah I think the voltage is too high anyway
[15:55:32] <skunkworks> I saw that one. 100v unless you could sneek some of the windings out'
[15:56:14] <cradek> there are a lot more choices at 3kva. I wonder if that would be enough for me.
[15:56:48] <SWPadnos> it would be more than 100V probably, because the primarry is labeled at 208V, not 240V
[15:57:02] <cradek> right, way too high
[15:58:04] <SWPadnos> remember also that the secondary current limit will the the constraint if you want to use a 440 primary transformer
[15:58:14] <SWPadnos> so you'll get half the rated power our
[15:58:16] <SWPadnos> out
[15:58:49] <cradek> oh, ok
[15:59:24] <SWPadnos> I made that mistake before I really thought about it, which is why I have a big-ish transformer I can't really use (at least not on the mill :) )
[16:00:24] <cradek> uh, what is it? :-)
[16:00:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:00:43] <SWPadnos> 2kva, 220/440 -> 120
[16:00:49] <SWPadnos> or 240/480, don't remember
[16:00:58] <SWPadnos> but you'd only get 1kva out of it
[16:01:06] <cradek> ok, way too small
[16:01:28] <cradek> maybe this will be hard to find
[16:01:58] <cradek> (also, it's working the way it is...)
[16:02:07] <SWPadnos> what kva rating are you looking for?
[16:02:10] <SWPadnos> around 3?
[16:02:17] <cradek> 4
[16:02:19] <SWPadnos> ok
[16:02:28] <SWPadnos> fed from 220-ish?
[16:02:32] <cradek> yes
[16:02:38] <cradek> 220ish to 72
[17:17:23] <skunkworks> I think your going to have to wind your own.
[17:19:21] <alex_joni> hi
[17:19:50] <skunkworks> Hi alex
[17:19:54] <alex_joni> what's up?
[17:20:10] <skunkworks> not much - trying to make it thru friday
[17:20:16] <alex_joni> it's gone here :)
[17:20:22] <skunkworks> :)
[17:20:31] <alex_joni> nothing interesting at the other end I can assure you
[17:21:10] <skunkworks> we are kinda half way thru so far.
[17:23:00] <skunkworks> alex_joni: have you heard anymore about the hexipod?
[17:29:25] <alex_joni> which one?
[17:30:40] <skunkworks> was it a university?
[17:30:58] <skunkworks> in germany?
[17:32:54] <alex_joni> ah, that one.. in spain
[17:36:09] <alex_joni> http://www.imac.unavarra.es/parallel/imagenes.php
[17:44:20] <skunkworks> * skunkworks wonders how much rotation you get from that.. (abc)
[18:00:36] <skunkworks> are the constraints separate? like how does it know that cannot go a certian direction
[18:01:20] <skunkworks> or the model knows?
[18:01:27] <skunkworks> (kins)
[18:05:35] <alex_joni> kins
[18:05:44] <alex_joni> homing is tricky though
[18:08:43] <skunkworks> I can only imagine
[18:08:46] <skunkworks> imagin
[18:10:18] <skunkworks> imagine
[18:15:27] <SWPadnos> woohoo! they did a re-delivery, so I have my new laptop now!
[18:15:37] <LawrenceG> yea
[18:15:52] <SWPadnos> now all I need to do is wait another 4 hours or so for the Gutsy DVD to finish downloading
[18:16:27] <LawrenceG> ya have to love "format c:" for removing the windows virus!
[18:17:17] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: your math is wrong
[18:17:39] <skunkworks> 33333/3000=11.1 or 666ipm
[18:18:04] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: what kind of laptop?
[18:20:21] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, yeah - whichever :)
[18:20:28] <skunkworks> :)
[18:20:40] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, from M-Tech, it's a rebranded clevo
[18:20:59] <SWPadnos> http://www.mtechlaptops.com/specifications/mtechm570a.html
[18:21:32] <alex_joni> skunkworks: feel free to fix his mail
[18:21:58] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: wuxga?
[18:22:26] <jepler> I (heart) my 15.4" WUXGA laptop display
[18:22:26] <SWPadnos> yep, 1920x1200
[18:22:40] <alex_joni> jepler: this is 17"
[18:22:46] <alex_joni> so WUXGA might be readable :P
[18:22:47] <jepler> yeah I see that -- I don't think I personally want a 17" laptop
[18:22:51] <alex_joni> without neckstrains
[18:23:04] <alex_joni> my WSXGA 15.4" is perfect for my habits
[18:23:13] <SWPadnos> it's big and bulky, but hey - it works :)
[18:23:19] <alex_joni> wsxga+ I mean
[18:24:17] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: works for what?
[18:24:29] <SWPadnos> err - memtest at the moment :)
[18:24:38] <alex_joni> do you plan to carry it around?
[18:24:57] <SWPadnos> not too much, but I do use laptops on airplanes and while traveling a lot
[18:25:08] <SWPadnos> but I leave it in the room when I go out to do stuff
[18:36:53] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: cool laptop.
[18:37:25] <SWPadnos> yah
[18:37:38] <SWPadnos> now why am I downloading the DVD, when I could be getting a CD instead?
[18:38:32] <skunkworks> ummm - I don't know.
[18:38:37] <cradek> brain tumor?
[18:38:52] <SWPadnos> of course, it doesn't have a parallel port, even though the website says it does
[18:38:56] <SWPadnos> but there is a serial port
[18:39:16] <SWPadnos> dunno. I found the cdimages.ubuntu.com/wherever link, and all I saw was DVDs
[18:39:28] <SWPadnos> upon further searching, I have found CD images
[18:42:18] <cradek> * cradek hugs his non-widescreen laptop that has parallel, serial, PCMCIA, and PS2 ports
[18:43:29] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos hugs his laptop with 1920x1200 screen, dual-core 2.2GHz CPU (4M cache), 2G RAM, 80G HD, and DVD recorder
[18:43:35] <skunkworks> heh - I don't have serial on my dell - but 1024X768 is getting to be a bit on the small side.
[18:43:47] <cradek> * cradek laughs at SWPadnos's 42 minutes of battery life :-)
[18:43:52] <SWPadnos> oh, and don't forget the 512M nvidia 8700M graphics card :)
[18:44:02] <SWPadnos> I shuld get at least twice that!
[18:44:03] <SWPadnos> should
[18:44:05] <SWPadnos> :)
[18:44:06] <cradek> nvidia, nice
[18:44:31] <cradek> I get 3.5+ hours on my "desktop replacement" with two newish batteries
[18:44:59] <SWPadnos> it was funny - I called the company to ask about battery life, and the guy said I should get "around an hour and a half"
[18:45:07] <cradek> ouch
[18:45:12] <cradek> that means 42 minutes doesn't it
[18:45:16] <cradek> (I was joking)
[18:45:27] <SWPadnos> which I thought was funny, considering that my older laptop (p3-1GHz, 512M) gets around 3.5 hours
[18:45:31] <SWPadnos> hwh
[18:45:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:45:40] <SWPadnos> I wasn't - I should get around twice that ;)
[18:46:26] <cradek> wtf
[18:46:42] <SWPadnos> one nice thing about this one vs. my old one is that the power input is just 20V/6A, with a standard DC barrel plug
[18:46:49] <cradek> I got "someone subscribed this address to our [porn site's] mailing list. reply if you really meant it" the other day
[18:46:58] <cradek> well guess what, I didn't reply, and I'm subscribed anyway
[18:47:04] <SWPadnos> the older one had a proprietary 4-pin plug
[18:47:08] <SWPadnos> lucky you!
[18:47:12] <cradek> oh those non-barrels suck
[18:47:29] <SWPadnos> I may even be able to make a DC-DC converter that works with airplane power
[18:48:17] <cradek> actually, the porn looks pretty decent
[18:48:28] <SWPadnos> lucky you!
[18:48:28] <cradek> but ... that's just wrong
[18:48:38] <SWPadnos> is that an oxymoron?
[18:48:42] <SWPadnos> "decent porn"
[18:48:55] <cradek> I doubt it
[18:49:01] <cradek> if there can be "terrible porn" there should also be "decent porn"
[18:49:07] <cradek> and I'm entirely sure there's terrible porn
[18:49:36] <cradek> but what I really wonder is whether I should 'unsubscribe' thereby validating my email address as 'live'
[18:50:06] <cradek> I'm pretty sure the answer has got to be no
[18:50:26] <SWPadnos> that's a tough one
[18:50:31] <skunkworks> well - we had a lady here replying to all those 'unsubscibe' links and I think she ended up getting hundreds of junk emails a day.
[18:50:34] <alex_joni> cradek: new rule to reply no such user?
[18:50:35] <cradek> SWPadnos: in the old days laptops could run on car/airplane power by buying a different convertor thing - I haven't seen those lately and I miss them
[18:50:50] <cradek> skunkworks: I already get many hundreds :-)
[18:50:59] <skunkworks> * skunkworks too
[18:51:09] <SWPadnos> I have various converters: an empower to car adapter, then a car inverter
[18:51:11] <alex_joni> * alex_joni doesn't count them
[18:51:12] <cradek> SWPadnos: now it seems like they think you should use a 110v inverter + your wall wart
[18:51:24] <SWPadnos> but that's a lot of wires to have hanging arounf
[18:51:29] <cradek> right
[18:51:31] <SWPadnos> d
[18:52:05] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: how much for the laptop?
[18:52:36] <SWPadnos> $2130, including 2-day shipping
[18:52:42] <cradek> urk
[18:52:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:52:51] <cradek> holy f
[18:52:57] <SWPadnos> that's about $400 less than my old one was
[18:53:14] <cradek> that's about 400% what I've ever spent on a laptop :-)
[18:53:22] <SWPadnos> and 4x the laptop, in all cases except for screen size/resolution, weight, and battery life
[18:53:53] <alex_joni> sounds ok to me
[18:54:04] <skunkworks> I spent a grand in 02.. (probably the best money I spent :))
[18:54:09] <cradek> yeah it's probably to be expected :-)
[18:54:37] <cradek> I got my thinkpad desktop replacement (and I use it that way) for $500 and I'm still tickled with it
[18:54:55] <alex_joni> my current laptop was 1400 eur ~ 1800$
[18:55:00] <cradek> I only wish it had a pad, instead of a nipple
[18:55:10] <SWPadnos> I even have TPM!!!
[18:55:26] <skunkworks> my first portable was a toshiba with a nipple. It took me a bit to get used to the pad
[18:55:43] <SWPadnos> and wifi (A/B/G/N)/bluetooth/"Robson flash memory", etc.
[18:55:57] <SWPadnos> though the robson thing isn't working, it seems
[18:56:20] <cradek> is TPM those reports you're supplosed to turn in with the cover sheet?
[18:56:27] <SWPadnos> no, those are TPS
[18:56:32] <skunkworks> heh
[18:56:44] <skunkworks> the guy from office space is from here.
[18:56:57] <cradek> which one?
[18:57:00] <skunkworks> He is the brother to one of the local news casters
[18:57:13] <skunkworks> livingston(sp)
[18:57:20] <SWPadnos> my wife still gets a chuckle from the sex scene "um, yeah. I'm going to have to ask you to move a little to the left. Yeah, thanks" :)
[18:57:33] <SWPadnos> with the oversize coffee mug in hand :)
[18:57:44] <skunkworks> heh
[18:57:47] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: wth do you do with tpm?
[18:57:46] <SWPadnos> (so do I -chuckle that is)
[18:57:53] <SWPadnos> I do nothing
[18:58:04] <SWPadnos> but I might be able to do something later on - who knows
[18:58:23] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hasn't enabled it yet
[18:59:09] <SWPadnos> yeah. I'm not sure I will. I'm planning on using Ubuntu on this machine (though I guess I could install XP64 on it)
[18:59:33] <skunkworks> http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/contributor/1800018742
[19:00:56] <skunkworks> ^ sister http://www.wkbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=1649887
[19:03:24] <skunkworks> ok - another thing that I have wrong. the sister works here - didn't grow up here.
[19:03:24] <skunkworks> whatever
[19:03:56] <skunkworks> I think I have developed a whole other reality in my head
[19:04:23] <SWPadnos> I think you need to keep working on it. it seems inconsistent ;)
[19:06:55] <skunkworks> inconsistently inconsistant?
[19:07:24] <SWPadnos> {in,}consistent
[19:07:43] <alex_joni> inconsister
[19:08:16] <skunkworks> well - the asian beatles have arrived again.
[19:08:31] <skunkworks> along with the boxelder bugs
[19:10:00] <alex_joni> and immerdiately they disabled his connection
[19:24:26] <LawrenceG> chris... when working on threading, did you find a good reference to use for setting threading params? machinery handbook?
[19:24:50] <cradek> do you mean when writing gcode to cut a thread?
[19:24:57] <LawrenceG> yes
[19:25:17] <cradek> yes that's what I use
[19:25:32] <cradek> but mostly just to get the major diameter
[19:25:52] <LawrenceG> pitch is easy, but thread depth and major dia seem to have a big range
[19:26:49] <LawrenceG> wonder if you found any web threading wizards or similar
[19:26:58] <cradek> no unfortunately I didn't
[19:27:29] <LawrenceG> ok... a new feature idea
[19:27:43] <cradek> the major discovery I made is that the thread depth (from sharp peaks) is pitch / sqrt(3)
[19:28:00] <cradek> err
[19:28:07] <SWPadnos> *
[19:28:18] <cradek> is that right?
[19:28:25] <cradek> sqrt(2)/3
[19:28:27] <SWPadnos> pitch * sqrt(3) / 2
[19:28:32] <SWPadnos> or something like that
[19:28:32] <cradek> yeah that
[19:28:43] <cradek> whatever that 30-60-90 triangle gives you
[19:28:45] <SWPadnos> assuming a 60 degree thread
[19:28:50] <SWPadnos> right
[19:28:59] <cradek> yeah yours is right
[19:29:00] <cradek> good grief
[19:29:03] <cradek> * cradek goes back to high school
[19:29:06] <SWPadnos> sqrt(3), 1/2 are the sin and cos of 30-60-90
[19:29:42] <LawrenceG> cool... so major dia and the depth calc should be what I need...
[19:30:06] <cradek> right
[19:30:29] <cradek> in emc, K is going to be this number (pitch * .866)
[19:31:06] <cradek> J is first pass depth
[19:31:13] <cradek> I is the incremental to the major diameter from the book
[20:49:20] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:52:19] <SWPadnos> see you later Alex