#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-09-26

[00:52:52] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[02:36:46] <cradek> I have a half-baked idea for AXIS
[02:37:08] <cradek> tonight I was rounding the corners on a large plate using MDI arcs
[02:37:38] <cradek> I would place the tool touching one side, say an inch from the edge, and then I had exactly one chance to get each arc right
[02:38:13] <cradek> I wonder if AXIS could show the path about to be generated by an MDI command in the preview, and then let you accept or reject it
[02:39:06] <cradek> for many MDI commands, it seems like you wouldn't want this extra step, hence the half-bakedness
[02:42:29] <jepler> fortunately we're in the feature freeze so I'll just file that one away for later...
[02:43:03] <cradek> oh I know, but I wonder what you think of the idea, whether or not we want to do it later
[02:43:55] <cradek> R2 shows "CW" or "CCW" when you enter G2/G3 so at least you have that - in emc, you don't get any help at all
[02:44:09] <jepler> well .. that way lies the g-code editor with interactive preview
[02:44:24] <jepler> because next is "I'd like to enter a few moves and preview it before I run it"
[02:44:38] <cradek> not sure I agree
[02:44:57] <cradek> we can already preview a set of moves before running it... I don't get the distinction you're making
[02:45:30] <jepler> why don't you write your one command to a file and load it in preview, then?>
[02:45:33] <jepler> no new feature needed
[02:45:58] <cradek> it's true I could do that
[02:46:50] <LawrenceG> jepler: another one to file... I would like to see the cursor co-ordinates displayed on 2d axis displays.. statusbar might be a good location... what do you think? good/bad idea?
[02:47:00] <jepler> LawrenceG: I am not sure what you mean
[02:47:12] <jepler> what cursor?
[02:47:44] <cradek> like when in Z view, you'd see X,Y as you move the mouse?
[02:47:50] <LawrenceG> when previewing a file in axis... I would like to be able to see what the co-ordinates of some feature are....
[02:48:26] <LawrenceG> like the edge of a circle, a corner etc.... yea, in z mode, one would see x,y
[02:48:31] <cradek> you know that you can click it and see the corresponding line of gcode, right?
[02:48:53] <cradek> when you look at that line and the previous line, you usually have exactly that information (and more)
[02:49:33] <LawrenceG> yes... the function would be used in a poor mans layout.. I'll pastebin an example I was working on today...
[02:49:35] <cradek> hmm not for complex gcode
[02:49:57] <cradek> I take it back
[02:50:38] <jepler> this function would only make sense in a "plane" view, not in "perspective" view
[02:51:14] <LawrenceG> yes
[02:53:11] <LawrenceG> http://imagebin.ca/view/gvJ0GK.html ... layed this out manually... it holds my er25 collet set
[02:53:41] <LawrenceG> hmmm... it ate some of the lines...
[02:53:44] <cradek> I made a very similar part yesterday/tonight
[02:53:54] <cradek> much bigger though :-)
[02:54:17] <cradek> 23 ER40 collets plus some other taper holders
[02:54:31] <jepler> cradek: stop bragging
[02:54:42] <cradek> it's cool, I should take a photo
[02:54:50] <cradek> LawrenceG: do you have it cut yet?
[02:55:05] <LawrenceG> shoptask is only a baby... er25's are a good size... yes, sitting in front of me
[02:55:17] <jepler> LawrenceG: it looks like it resizes the image if your browser is not wide enough
[02:55:22] <LawrenceG> want a pix?
[02:55:23] <jepler> I spent too much on my laptop display so it looks fine
[02:55:41] <cradek> LawrenceG: did emc accidentally try to cut it at 40ipm due to a stupid bug? if not, you're ahead of me
[02:55:51] <jepler> I guess I am resistant to features that take AXIS in the direction of being a really awful CAM package
[02:56:07] <cradek> jepler: I can't argue with that
[02:56:18] <jepler> because no matter what it will never be a *good* cam package
[02:56:16] <LawrenceG> no, I cut at 8ipm... no scrw ups with a couple of day old build from cvs
[02:56:41] <cradek> the mdi preview is more 'conversational' than cam, but point definitely taken
[02:56:50] <jepler> cradek: I meant to ask, you used F4. and F4.00 in your example. What does F4.0 do?
[02:57:03] <cradek> I was too scared to try F4.0
[02:57:13] <cradek> (I knew F4. would work)
[02:57:21] <jepler> ha
[02:57:31] <cradek> I keep meaning to look in the manual and see what it says about F
[02:57:55] <LawrenceG> Is bp limited to integer speeds?
[02:58:10] <cradek> LawrenceG: I don't know, but if you program F4.00 it cuts at 40
[02:58:19] <cradek> the . is required
[02:58:30] <cradek> I bet it would take 4.0 (or 4.5) but not 4.00
[02:59:51] <cradek> I'll go take a photo of my holder, brb
[03:00:41] <LawrenceG> g1f10.00 x5y5 seems to work... at least in sim
[03:00:41] <jepler> actually if your window is too wide it stretches the image and still makes it look like hell (imagebin.ca)
[03:00:49] <jepler> LawrenceG: I'm sure it works fine in emc
[03:01:02] <LawrenceG> ah
[03:01:02] <jepler> cradek hasn't started his retrofit yet
[03:02:05] <LawrenceG> how about a background grid ( like the limits )
[03:02:37] <jepler> "It's like a pregnant woman laughing at me because I have gas." -- what the hell does that mean? (seen on a web forum)
[03:03:15] <LawrenceG> I guess I could always put g0 moves and draw a grid and comment them out when running pgm
[03:06:33] <LawrenceG> http://imagebin.ca/view/8y5uQE.html picture of er25 set... now I need to make a box
[03:07:51] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/PICT0040.JPG
[03:07:51] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/PICT0041.JPG
[03:08:09] <cradek> hm should have rescaled...
[03:08:19] <cradek> the second one is the mill in its (more) final location
[03:09:55] <cradek> there's a second row for 6 more holders behind, but they're covered until it's mounted properly
[03:10:27] <LawrenceG> cool.. it fits well in the garage
[03:10:46] <cradek> yes it's a good size machine for that space
[03:11:06] <cradek> it's still out from the wall far enough to get the back door off and work on it (a little cramped)
[03:11:38] <skunkworks> cradek: did you buy some collets?
[03:11:45] <skunkworks> (looking at the picture)
[03:11:47] <cradek> skunkworks: yeah you can see the set there
[03:12:05] <cradek> they're supposed to hold all sizes from 1/8 to 1, but I'm not sure I believe it
[03:12:29] <skunkworks> heh - they are'flexable' :) nice
[03:12:35] <cradek> yep, so they say
[03:13:00] <LawrenceG> er25 set holds 2mm-16mm or about 1/16 to 5/8"
[03:13:50] <cradek> the tool I've used 10x more than anything else is the 3/4" 2 flute aluminum cutting end mill in the center of the back row
[03:14:15] <cradek> do you mostly use the 5/8?
[03:14:42] <LawrenceG> yea that baby must throw some chips!.... 5/8 is about as big as the shoptask turns easily
[03:15:06] <LawrenceG> I mostly use 1/4" or 1/8" bits
[03:15:17] <cradek> after cutting this I had aluminum everywhere for 8' radius
[03:15:24] <LawrenceG> but I have a bunch of surplus 3/8 endmills
[03:15:41] <cradek> I did a lot of sweeping so I don't track it all into the house
[03:16:11] <LawrenceG> I made my holder from 3/16 lexan.... shopvac stopped shop from becoming full of snow
[03:16:43] <cradek> I cut this 1/2" plate with a 1/2" end mill (actually 0.482 resharpened junk) in one pass - plunge and make a circle for each hole
[03:17:00] <cradek> I was surprised it cut so easily (with coolant)
[03:17:24] <LawrenceG> cool... power is nice
[03:17:27] <cradek> LawrenceG: I have trouble cutting that stuff without melting it to the tool
[03:18:00] <cradek> 1/2" deep with a 1/2" mill is pretty optimistic but it worked fine
[03:18:10] <LawrenceG> very sharp hss cutter an either an air blast or shopvac sucking for cooling
[03:18:23] <cradek> 2 flute right? or 1?
[03:18:31] <LawrenceG> 2
[03:18:52] <LawrenceG> just a 1/4: 2 flute endmill from some cheap set
[03:19:43] <jepler> half-baked: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/axis-grid.patch http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/axis-grid.png
[03:19:47] <jepler> and now .. goodnight
[03:20:17] <cradek> interesting ... goodnight
[03:20:47] <LawrenceG> cheers gents
[03:22:11] <cradek> working backward it looks like I was cutting 250sfm at .001/tooth (2000rpm, 4ipm)
[03:22:39] <cradek> for production that's a bit conservative but I'd need good flood coolant to do more I think
[03:24:19] <cradek> at this load it wasn't working at all, just a gentle hum from the motor, but I had some trouble keeping it from gumming up with my spray bottle of coolant
[03:29:59] <LawrenceG> yea... I have a bunch of assorted Al here and some of it cuts like crap.... other stuff makes beautiful chips
[03:30:21] <fenn> cradek: when cutting lexan you need to take a fat chip
[03:30:29] <LawrenceG> the gummy stuff makes for broken cutters
[03:30:45] <cradek> LawrenceG: luckily this plate said 6061 right on it
[03:31:05] <jmkasunich_> thats a nice piece of aluminum there
[03:31:34] <cradek> yeah it was a nice find
[03:31:49] <fenn> and you went and put holes in it!
[03:31:49] <cradek> it was part of a "worthless" triangular drop
[03:32:03] <cradek> as I cut more stuff out of it, I have more triangles
[03:32:18] <cradek> (it's almost gone now)
[03:32:16] <LawrenceG> depends a lot on how it has been heat treated as well.... T6 or ?? most of my stuff is from dumpster diving
[03:32:26] <jmkasunich_> gussets! you just have to find something that needs braced
[03:33:17] <jmkasunich_> what is the motor looking thing to the right of the shopvac in your mill pic?
[03:33:17] <cradek> haha you can see a triangle in the background
[03:33:28] <jmkasunich_> (under the electrical panel)
[03:33:48] <cradek> a backpack type pesticide sprayer that might be somehow involved with flood coolant
[03:33:50] <jmkasunich_> * jmkasunich_ guesses rotary phase converter
[03:34:00] <cradek> oh that, heh
[03:34:05] <cradek> I didn't actually read your question
[03:34:08] <cradek> yeah that's the converter
[03:34:11] <jmkasunich_> "motor looking thing"
[03:34:20] <cradek> yeah I see that now
[03:34:55] <cradek> it'll be nice to get rid of that eventually, but it sure works
[03:35:20] <jmkasunich_> I see you got one of those little screwless vises
[03:35:22] <cradek> to the right of the panel is another panel with the control stuff for the converter
[03:35:58] <cradek> that's a sherline vise!
[03:36:01] <jmkasunich_> emphasis on little
[03:36:21] <cradek> I was going to use it to mill an angle on something but didn't end up doing it that way
[03:36:56] <jmkasunich_> is the red rag on the knee handle a warning flag?
[03:37:01] <jmkasunich_> or just a handy place for a rag
[03:37:13] <cradek> just a handy place
[03:37:18] <cradek> I haven't run into the handle yet
[03:37:25] <cradek> I was religiously taking it off for a while, but now I generally leave it on
[03:37:44] <cradek> I think it helps that it's toward the left (wall side)
[03:38:19] <cradek> (I have a bad habit of throwing the rag on the table, letting it collect chips, then cutting my hands with it)
[03:38:43] <jmkasunich_> I use paper towels instead of rags
[03:39:11] <cradek> yeah I have both, usually like the rags better because they don't tear up
[03:39:39] <cradek> that photo looks like I'm one of the anal guys who cleans everything all the time
[03:39:43] <jmkasunich_> heh
[03:39:52] <cradek> when actually I just cleaned the table so well to put the vise back on after this job
[03:40:39] <jmkasunich_> what is the cutter at the top left of the first pic?
[03:40:43] <jmkasunich_> looks like a shell mill
[03:40:59] <cradek> 2.5?
[03:41:07] <cradek> it is a shell
[03:41:14] <jmkasunich_> but that toolholder and shank combo makes it seem like its flopping around on the end of a stick
[03:41:18] <cradek> I got it in some junk and use it instead of a flycutter for facing
[03:41:36] <cradek> yeah it's really janky, it's a welded shank that someone slapped together
[03:42:05] <cradek> it's a nice cutter though - maybe I can get a real holder for it
[03:42:36] <jmkasunich_> something that doesn't put the cutting edge 6" away from the spindle nose
[03:43:03] <cradek> facing at 10x the feed of a flycutter is nice...
[03:43:14] <jmkasunich_> yep
[03:43:26] <jmkasunich_> I do 12x ;-)
[03:43:41] <cradek> I counted the teeth and I'm pretty sure it's 10...
[03:43:46] <jmkasunich_> and 5.5" wide
[03:44:29] <cradek> next year I'll bring you the stuff too big for me to use, I have some from that auction
[03:44:37] <jmkasunich_> http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/Facemil1.jpg
[03:44:56] <jmkasunich_> my machine isn't really any bigger than yours
[03:45:02] <cradek> with the right holder I might be able to run that.
[03:45:13] <jmkasunich_> although I have a 1" horizontal arbor, so I can run that kind of cutters
[03:45:29] <cradek> nice cutter.
[03:45:37] <cradek> HGR I presume
[03:45:42] <jmkasunich_> yep
[03:46:41] <jmkasunich_> http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/Face_mill1.jpg
[03:46:49] <jmkasunich_> how bout that one ;-)
[03:46:51] <cradek> ha
[03:47:02] <cradek> 10"? 12?
[03:47:17] <skunkworks> we need to take some pictures :) shell mills are nice.
[03:47:38] <jmkasunich_> about that - that one isn't mine
[03:47:43] <skunkworks> although I don't think we have anything bigger than 12.
[03:47:59] <jmkasunich_> (there was a thread on rec.crafts.metalworking about face mills, several people posted pics)
[03:48:10] <skunkworks> heh
[03:48:12] <jmkasunich_> including at 96" one: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/facemill96.jpg
[03:48:24] <skunkworks> my shell mill is bigger than your shell mill :L
[03:48:31] <jmkasunich_> Mr. 96 won
[03:48:31] <cradek> this 10" hasn't been used for a very long time
[03:49:10] <jmkasunich_> "this" meaning one that you have?
[03:49:28] <cradek> no the one in your mill1 photo
[03:49:33] <jmkasunich_> oh
[03:49:38] <jmkasunich_> yeah, its a bit dusty
[03:50:07] <skunkworks> time for bed. just spent a good 4 hours cleaning up a xp machine.
[03:50:35] <cradek> skunkworks: I've got a CD you can borrow that does a quick job of that
[03:50:44] <jmkasunich_> heh
[03:50:58] <skunkworks> I have one here.. but it would be less than 4 hours :)
[03:51:05] <cradek> err I mean goodnight :-)
[03:51:10] <jmkasunich_> some unreasonable fool probably wants it to have XP on it afterwards
[03:51:33] <skunkworks> the nasties are getting nastier and nastier.
[03:51:39] <cradek> skunkworks: ick
[03:52:02] <cradek> skunkworks: I don't see how you can ever be sure everything is gone, short of reinstalling
[03:52:55] <skunkworks> when the virus software stops randomly finding viruses and IE acts 'normal' I call it good.
[03:53:10] <skunkworks> (and yes that was 4 hours)
[03:53:17] <cradek> yargh
[03:53:33] <skunkworks> heh - night.
[03:53:34] <cradek> but will it be back in your hands for the same in a few months?
[03:53:39] <cradek> goodnight
[03:53:47] <skunkworks> this one has been about a year. not bad.
[03:54:03] <cradek> thanks for saving us all from spam from one more 0wned windows machine
[03:54:13] <skunkworks> someone clicked on something they shouldn't have.
[03:54:22] <skunkworks> yes :) no problem.
[03:54:23] <cradek> ... 100 times
[03:54:40] <jmkasunich_> I forgot I had posted this: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/JMKCOL1.jpg
[03:54:42] <skunkworks> now -really. Night.
[03:54:51] <jmkasunich_> goodnight skunkworks
[03:55:01] <jmkasunich_> cradek: you could build a box around your plate
[03:55:04] <cradek> jmkasunich_: box you made?
[03:55:13] <jmkasunich_> keep the mill jewelry clean
[03:55:14] <jmkasunich_> yes
[03:55:25] <cradek> nah I think I'm going to screw it to that table and call it good
[03:55:28] <jmkasunich_> also made the collet holder and wrench
[03:55:39] <jmkasunich_> http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/JMKCOL2.jpg
[03:55:39] <cradek> nice
[03:55:54] <jmkasunich_> the collets are a swiss screw machine set that I got on ebay
[03:56:10] <cradek> what's the scale? is this for tiny stuff?
[03:56:36] <jmkasunich_> the set goes from 1/32? to 15/32, by 64ths
[03:57:01] <cradek> ok much bigger than I was thinking (looked like WW collets)
[03:57:19] <jmkasunich_> the outside of the holder is a Morse 3 taper
[03:57:32] <jmkasunich_> little over an inch at the big end I think?
[03:57:37] <cradek> cool
[03:57:48] <cradek> I have yet to have to cut a morse taper (thankfully)
[03:57:57] <jmkasunich_> I take that back, morse 4
[03:58:02] <cradek> is that your shoptask spindle?
[03:58:03] <LawrenceG> same as my set...mt3 er25 holder
[03:58:17] <jmkasunich_> the headstock of the shoptask is 4, the mill spindle and tailstock are 3
[03:58:38] <jmkasunich_> I didn't cut the morse taper, I bought a cheapie MT4 to jacobs something adapter
[03:58:52] <cradek> ha, cheater
[03:58:59] <jmkasunich_> no, smart
[03:59:07] <cradek> yeah, no kidding
[03:59:27] <cradek> so the shoptask has no drawbar? just morse?
[03:59:43] <jmkasunich_> the mill spindle has morse 3 with a drawbar
[03:59:46] <LawrenceG> it has a drawbar....
[04:00:10] <jmkasunich_> the lathe spindle has morse 4, and a flange with a locating step and 3 bolts
[04:00:16] <jmkasunich_> the flange is used for chucks and faceplate
[04:00:29] <cradek> morse 3 has threads in the back? I'm confused
[04:00:45] <jmkasunich_> morse 3 is the taper
[04:00:53] <jmkasunich_> morse drill bits have a tang in the back
[04:01:03] <cradek> ok that's what I'm used to seeing
[04:01:07] <jmkasunich_> but you can get some tooling that is drilled for a drawbar instead of having a tang
[04:01:15] <cradek> got it
[04:01:15] <LawrenceG> internal threads in end or mt3 shank
[04:01:20] <jmkasunich_> 3/8-16 for the shoptask
[04:01:47] <cradek> think the new drill press is MT3 but no drawbar of course
[04:02:03] <jmkasunich_> thats a beefy drill press
[04:02:08] <jmkasunich_> you need to pose a pic sometime
[04:02:25] <jmkasunich_> my 300 lb 15" clausing has a MT2
[04:02:36] <LawrenceG> not sure what came with my er25 set... it looks big... maybe 12mm
[04:03:10] <LawrenceG> I need to make a new drawbar
[04:03:22] <jmkasunich_> all-thread
[04:03:36] <jmkasunich_> (threading on a non-CNC shoptask sucks)
[04:03:58] <cradek> LawrenceG: drill and tap yours and put a long "setscrew" in the end with loctite
[04:04:02] <LawrenceG> yup.. or get my spindle encoder hooked up!
[04:04:12] <cradek> next time it's worn out, just replace the screw
[04:04:24] <jmkasunich_> cradek: I've done that trick before, works great
[04:04:27] <jmkasunich_> IF the bar is big enough
[04:04:47] <cradek> I have that on max - never had to replace it yet :-)
[04:04:56] <jmkasunich_> the hole thru the mill spindle of a shoptask might not even fit a 12mm bar
[04:05:36] <LawrenceG> trip to harware store that stocks metric bolts?
[04:06:19] <jmkasunich_> I stand corrected, it's about 13.9mm
[04:06:30] <cradek> sounds quite possible then
[04:06:40] <jmkasunich_> still, that isn't a lot of metal outside the threads
[04:06:49] <jmkasunich_> 13.5 mm bar with a 12mm threaded hole in it?
[04:07:00] <LawrenceG> the hole pretty much takes the whole end of the mt3 shank
[04:07:07] <cradek> 3/8 is 9.525mm
[04:07:27] <LawrenceG> brb... going to try a 1/2" bolt
[04:07:34] <jmkasunich_> LawrenceG is trying to make a 12mm threaded drawbar for his ER collet holder
[04:07:44] <cradek> ohhh
[04:08:03] <cradek> I thought he was repairing a 3/8-16 drawbar that goes in a 13.9mm hole
[04:08:14] <cradek> on that note, I should go to bed
[04:08:23] <jmkasunich_> same here
[04:08:26] <cradek> 'night
[04:08:36] <jmkasunich_> goodnight
[04:09:58] <LawrenceG> 1/2" is close... need finer threads
[04:10:02] <LawrenceG> night guys
[04:10:07] <jmkasunich_> 1/2-20? or metric?
[04:10:40] <LawrenceG> not sure... will try and find my thread guage
[04:10:52] <jmkasunich_> well, I'm gonna find some shut-eye
[04:10:58] <jmkasunich_> goodnight, and good luck
[04:40:35] <LawrenceG> looks like m12 1.75mm pitch threads (12mm coarse standard)
[12:15:46] <Guest969> Guest969 is now known as skunkworks_
[12:19:32] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[12:33:38] <Guest969> Guest969 is now known as skunkworks__
[12:35:20] <skunkworks__> jeeze - If I don't have a high traffic irc channel (like ubuntu) running I get disconnected almost instantly
[12:36:53] <skunkworks__> skunkworks__ is now known as skunkworks_
[16:37:52] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: you mean #emc-devel is not high traffic?
[16:58:25] <skunkworks_> heh
[16:58:31] <skunkworks_> only people loggin on and off ;)
[21:15:41] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/axis-grid-rev2.patch
[21:15:51] <jepler> I'm not sure how I feel about this
[21:17:11] <SWPadnos> that gives USER_UNIT grids on the preview plot?
[21:17:37] <jepler> yes,
[21:17:39] <SWPadnos> oh - settable spacing
[21:17:41] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/axis-grid-rev2.png
[21:17:53] <jepler> yes
[21:18:05] <SWPadnos> how does it look in perspective view?
[21:18:09] <jepler> it doesn't appear
[21:18:14] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:18:42] <SWPadnos> if it's a checkbox somewhere easily accessible, then I'd put it in
[21:19:07] <SWPadnos> I can see that it might look "cluttered" sometimes, but it would also be very useful at times
[21:19:23] <jepler> right now you have to enable it by putting an (AXIS) comment in your gcode source..
[21:19:37] <SWPadnos> oh. that's an interesting way of doing it
[21:19:52] <jepler> I'm not sure if that's a good way or not
[21:20:00] <SWPadnos> me either, but it is interesting :)
[22:59:40] <fenn> * fenn suggests a brighter line every 10th/100th line
[23:01:01] <fenn> also i think it's off by a factor of 2
[23:02:47] <SWPadnos> note the line "(AXIS,grid,.5)" at the top of the g-code listing
[23:02:54] <SWPadnos> it's a .5" grid
[23:41:52] <LawrenceG> jepler: yea!!!!