#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-09-05

[00:42:25] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=331415&postcount=16
[00:42:50] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=331415&postcount=16
[00:49:18] <jepler> hi skunkworks
[00:51:11] <skunkworks> Hi jepler. how the zenbot? are you 'centered' with it ;)
[00:51:20] <jepler> centered?
[00:51:25] <cradek> haha
[00:51:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:51:30] <cradek> hi guys
[00:51:31] <jepler> hi cradek
[00:51:35] <SWPadnos> hi
[00:52:08] <skunkworks> 'Zen'
[00:52:14] <jepler> oh
[00:52:15] <jepler> groan
[00:52:21] <skunkworks> har har har
[01:06:00] <jepler> hm, here's a surprise (to me): I have G42 / cut cut cut / G40 / G0 Z1
[01:06:04] <jepler> on that last Z1 move, X and Y move too
[01:06:21] <jepler> now I understand what that's about (X and Y move to the commanded position rather than the compensated position)
[01:06:28] <cradek> right
[01:06:33] <jepler> but that sure didn't cross my mind when I wrote the gcode
[01:06:39] <cradek> otherwise you may not ever get back on the actual path
[01:06:47] <cradek> imagine no more X words in the program
[01:06:52] <jepler> so should I have written G0 Z1 / G40 instead?
[01:06:56] <cradek> (I fixed that recently)
[01:06:58] <jepler> "move out before comp off"
[01:07:02] <cradek> depends what you want :-)
[01:07:15] <SWPadnos> if you like gouges, I'd leave it
[01:07:20] <cradek> yep, if you want to move straight up, you must keep comp on
[01:07:33] <cradek> don't turn off comp until *away* from the part
[01:07:48] <SWPadnos> I thought the spec said that the next move in the XY plane would turn comp on/off
[01:08:06] <SWPadnos> I should look at that again though
[01:08:16] <jepler> if that's what the spec says I'll sure whine at chris to fix it :-P
[01:08:22] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:08:28] <cradek> fix the spec?
[01:08:52] <cradek> don't turn off comp while touching the part
[01:08:56] <cradek> it's not a problem just with Z moves
[01:09:11] <jepler> anyway, here was my program: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/fanny.ngc
[01:10:09] <jepler> I didn't notice the unexpected move until I was looking at the preview plot later, so I can confirm that this time I lucked out
[01:11:06] <cradek> interesting, what is it?
[01:11:25] <jepler> the extra area cut would be outside the part, so the only real problem is that it crashed the cutter into the material at rapid speeds
[01:11:37] <cradek> nice entries
[01:11:39] <jepler> it's an adapter from 80mm to 60mm fan -- the enclosure takes an 80mm fan, the 24V fan I have is 60mm
[01:12:28] <jepler> thanks -- the entry moves I worked on; the exit moves I wasn't paying attention to
[01:12:35] <jmkasunich> yay jepler!
[01:12:46] <jmkasunich> (machining a real, functional part)
[01:12:53] <jepler> without anyone there to hold my hand
[01:12:55] <jmkasunich> we'll make a machinist of you yet
[01:13:02] <skunkworks> :)
[01:13:14] <cradek> yeah, one of the few who can use cutter comp
[01:13:50] <cradek> I'm a machinist - I have 1-2-3 blocks
[01:13:55] <cradek> that's how you tell, right?
[01:13:59] <jepler> oh that's what you should have ordered me from that website
[01:14:27] <cradek> they shipped that order already!
[01:14:27] <SWPadnos> no - I have 1-2-3 blocks, so that can't be the only determinant
[01:14:37] <skunkworks> http://www.spiritone.com/~english/humour/aolcd.html
[01:16:19] <jepler> doh, I didn't take a picture of the part before I installed it
[01:16:32] <jmkasunich> guess you have to remove it now
[01:16:33] <jepler> it looks like hell, because the tape I used to hold it down ripped off irregular parts of the reflective CD surface
[01:16:34] <cradek> oh it's done already?
[01:16:37] <jepler> yeah I did it earlier
[01:16:40] <SWPadnos> make another one and fake it
[01:16:45] <cradek> made from a cd? heh
[01:16:59] <jepler> I don't have a lot of stock
[01:17:35] <SWPadnos> did people see this earlier? http://www.mightywombat.com/toons/numbers.gif
[01:17:38] <jmkasunich> you made it out of a CD?
[01:17:44] <SWPadnos> I got a chuckle out of it :)
[01:17:51] <jepler> hah
[01:17:59] <jepler> jmkasunich: yeah, why not?
[01:18:02] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich takes back jepler's machinist creds
[01:18:08] <jmkasunich> gotta cut METAL!
[01:18:15] <cradek> with a dremel?
[01:18:17] <jepler> *cries*
[01:18:20] <SWPadnos> send gold - it's soft
[01:18:59] <cradek> bbl
[01:50:38] <jepler> yay another bug squashed
[01:56:50] <skunkworks> reminds me of a dilbert - when the pointy haired boss say "we are now paying bonuses for every bug you fix" wally say "wooHoo I'm writing my self new boat"
[01:59:11] <jepler> unfortunately that second part never happens to me
[02:00:10] <jepler> http://www.ourlocalstyle.com/images/uploadImages/2006/05/13/dilbert_bugFixMinivan.gif
[02:00:38] <jepler> "boat" would have been better than "minivan", I think -- "minivan" seems practical
[02:00:50] <SWPadnos> he's a geek - it should be practical
[02:00:58] <jepler> though wally's not the type to have a yacht
[02:01:26] <jepler> who the hell decided how to spell "yacht", anyway?
[02:01:49] <jepler> [Probably obsolete Norwegian jagt, from Middle Low German jacht, short for jachtschip : jagen, to chase (from Old High German jag?n) + schip, ship.]
[02:01:53] <jepler> oh well that explains it real good
[02:02:35] <SWPadnos> ja, verry gut eksplanation
[02:04:55] <jepler> Ok, so how about something expensive but which is likely to actually be of very little use to the purchaser?
[02:04:57] <jepler> "bridgeport"?
[02:05:10] <skunkworks> I may have been para-phaising
[02:05:28] <SWPadnos> apparently
[02:05:49] <SWPadnos> jepler, no, only some of us buy them and don't get around to making them useful
[02:06:05] <SWPadnos> which reminds me. I wonder what the deal is with those servo mounts
[02:07:52] <jepler> I bet a lot of bridgeports bought for retrofit never make useful parts again
[02:08:02] <jepler> sad as that seems
[02:08:17] <SWPadnos> heh. I only know of one at the moment (other than those for sale on ebay with various sob stories)
[02:08:25] <skunkworks> Don't say that - I will not believe it.
[02:08:52] <SWPadnos> I wonder why my paypal payment is "pending"
[02:11:38] <jepler> 'night
[02:11:42] <SWPadnos> see ya
[02:40:46] <cradek> same reason my ups shipment "experienced an exception"
[02:40:59] <SWPadnos> yeah - I always get a kick out of those
[02:41:10] <SWPadnos> unless my packages are delayed by 3 days because of it
[02:46:41] <cradek> cnc is neat. (I peck-drilled 4.5 inches deep, .1 inch at a time)
[02:47:00] <cradek> it can do that without screwing up or getting bored
[02:47:42] <SWPadnos> yeah. I can usually do one or the other
[02:48:14] <SWPadnos> though milling machines are really fantastic drill presses, so it's pretty easy to make good holes
[02:48:24] <cradek> yeah
[02:48:55] <SWPadnos> I made supports for the bridgeport - they're 6"x3/4" steel bars, 36" long
[02:49:14] <SWPadnos> each needed 2 large holes, for the bolts tha hold down the machine
[02:49:23] <cradek> this was a .203 hole down into the edge of .375 plate too
[02:49:25] <SWPadnos> plus 12 smaller holes for the 3 casters per bar
[02:49:43] <SWPadnos> cool - doing doweling in steel ;)
[02:50:05] <cradek> casters?
[02:50:15] <cradek> (why do you need to hold down the machine?)
[02:50:18] <SWPadnos> hey - that would be pretty cool actually - make a table from solid metals of different types, like nice multi-grained wood tables
[02:50:29] <cradek> heh
[02:50:33] <cradek> it would be a little heavy
[02:50:46] <SWPadnos> well, I think it'll be coming off the casters slightly before (or slghtly after) I get it running as a CNC
[02:50:57] <SWPadnos> ideally under my power, not its own
[02:51:00] <cradek> I like brass and aluminum together, but both can get a bit tarnishy
[02:51:19] <SWPadnos> coat in zipwax, just like wood ;)
[02:51:59] <cradek> I got a couple 5' (?) crowbars - very easy to move the machine without wheels
[02:52:17] <SWPadnos> yep. and round bars for rolling are extremely helpful
[02:52:25] <cradek> they make great gear pullers too, I found
[02:52:28] <SWPadnos> hah
[02:52:31] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:53:03] <cradek> for the fifty or so pulleys I had to pull off the top, I could just hang the two bars on opposite sides and then thump the shaft
[02:53:16] <cradek> maybe it was only about four pulleys, I lost count
[02:53:27] <SWPadnos> was that to get it inside, or did you take apart the head?
[02:53:32] <SWPadnos> or both
[02:53:36] <cradek> both
[02:53:39] <SWPadnos> bummer
[02:54:01] <cradek> one was a huge pain to get back on
[02:54:06] <SWPadnos> that's one nice thing about hte manual mills - you can turn the head upside down and rest it on the table when you're going through the short garage doors
[02:54:24] <cradek> yeah but that'll never be rigid like this is
[02:54:27] <SWPadnos> though if I ever need to change the drawbar, I'm in trouble
[02:54:35] <cradek> those look really spindly to me
[02:54:43] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:54:48] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/bridgeport/DSCN6321.JPG
[02:55:03] <cradek> here's the "lowered" pic
[02:55:57] <SWPadnos> sigh - nice ballscrew concentric with the spindle (from what it looks like)
[02:56:02] <cradek> you can see where the previous owner greased ... the top of the motor
[02:56:15] <cradek> yeah it's a nice setup
[02:56:17] <SWPadnos> ok - I was wondering what that icky-poo was there for
[02:56:42] <cradek> I removed about a quart of grease that wasn't doing anything any good
[02:56:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:56:55] <SWPadnos> have you cleaned out the knee?
[02:57:02] <cradek> unless the belts need grease...
[02:57:07] <cradek> nope
[02:57:09] <SWPadnos> get a dumpstrer
[02:57:12] <SWPadnos> ster
[02:57:43] <SWPadnos> I don't know how it was possible to get that much crap in the knee, when it looks mostly sealed
[02:57:45] <cradek> what quill travel will you have?
[02:57:58] <SWPadnos> I think it'll be very close to the full 5"
[02:58:19] <cradek> that's good
[02:58:30] <SWPadnos> the Z motor mount is an Anilam, si I'm hoping it was well designed
[02:58:36] <SWPadnos> s/si/so/
[02:58:40] <cradek> for this project I want to drill a 6"+ hole - it will be interesting
[02:58:45] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[02:58:51] <cradek> not hard really
[02:59:02] <SWPadnos> long drill and knee movement
[02:59:05] <cradek> just crank the knee up a couple inches
[02:59:06] <cradek> right
[02:59:36] <SWPadnos> that's where a servoed knee would come in handy
[02:59:43] <SWPadnos> servo + CNC
[02:59:47] <cradek> I sure see why people motorize knees - that damn thing is heavy
[03:00:01] <SWPadnos> it's only ~1000 pounds (plus clamps and workpiece)
[03:00:08] <cradek> 'only'
[03:00:38] <cradek> maybe I should get a longer handle - I know I've seen them
[03:00:41] <SWPadnos> and you get to crank ~4 feet around per 0.1", so you're getting a good deal on reduction
[03:00:47] <SWPadnos> got crowbar?
[03:01:14] <cradek> maybe the gibs are too tight or something
[03:01:24] <cradek> I'm trying to get a guy who knows what he's doing to come look at it
[03:01:31] <cradek> sadly it needs some scraping
[03:01:37] <SWPadnos> that is a bummer
[03:01:45] <SWPadnos> but at least you get to learn something new
[03:01:51] <SWPadnos> or pay someone to do it ;
[03:01:54] <SWPadnos> :)
[03:01:58] <cradek> yeah - who to pay to get scraping done right
[03:02:07] <cradek> we'll see
[03:02:16] <SWPadnos> that's a damned good question. it sounds like it may be a dying art
[03:02:50] <cradek> it'll be alive as long as we have manufacturing in the US, plus about one life span
[03:03:05] <cradek> so, not dead yet
[03:03:49] <SWPadnos> I thought a lot of what used to be done with scraping is now done by grinding
[03:04:12] <cradek> oh, I guess I don't know
[03:04:25] <SWPadnos> me either - could be a misperception on my part
[03:04:47] <SWPadnos> I read an interesting thread on practicalmachinist about it
[03:05:22] <cradek> if I had the tools I'd be tempted to try to fix it. So, it's probably good I don't.
[03:05:44] <cradek> you don't run across a dovetail standard every day
[03:05:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:10:22] <cradek> heck I don't even have a surface plate
[03:10:32] <cradek> if I did, *maybe* I could make a dovetail standard of some kind
[03:10:37] <SWPadnos> they're cheap
[03:10:41] <SWPadnos> it's the shipping that gets you
[03:10:46] <cradek> sure
[03:10:59] <cradek> my vise cost $80 to ship here, and it was only 60? lb
[03:11:15] <SWPadnos> like $35 for a 12x18 surface plate
[03:11:48] <cradek> interesting
[03:11:56] <SWPadnos> I got it from MSC
[03:11:59] <cradek> what is that, 100lb?
[03:12:07] <SWPadnos> not that much, but it's heavy
[03:12:13] <cradek> just a couple inches thick?
[03:12:21] <SWPadnos> it's more than a vise and less than a rotary table
[03:12:22] <SWPadnos> 3"
[03:12:27] <SWPadnos> I think
[03:15:19] <SWPadnos> yep. 12x18x3"
[03:15:29] <SWPadnos> and heavy, but I think it was shipped UPS
[03:17:10] <SWPadnos> wow. they're $117 each now. I could swear I didn't pay anywhere near that much
[03:17:27] <cradek> 36x48x4: $1018
[03:17:55] <SWPadnos> taht's over 100 pounds
[03:18:02] <cradek> heh
[03:18:05] <cradek> yeah I suppose it is
[03:20:25] <cradek> 48x96x16 tolerance +- .0004
[03:20:31] <cradek> holy crap.
[03:20:59] <SWPadnos> I was surprised the tolerance was so bad (looking at the Starrett 36x48 @ +/-0.00015)
[03:21:21] <SWPadnos> that's why they have nice soft covers for those hunks of stone
[03:21:29] <cradek> yep
[03:21:55] <cradek> hey I cut a 7.000 x 4.750" piece of aluminum
[03:22:05] <SWPadnos> on a bandsaw?
[03:22:08] <cradek> if you measure it in the right places, that is
[03:22:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:22:13] <cradek> uh yeah
[03:22:29] <SWPadnos> it's nice to be able to cut really biug hunks of metal, isn't it?
[03:22:33] <SWPadnos> big
[03:22:50] <cradek> it's 4.750 on one end and 4.748 on the other, haven't checked to see where the problem is yet
[03:22:55] <cradek> probably more wear
[03:23:14] <cradek> or, the cheap vise isn't very flat (?)
[03:23:21] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[03:23:34] <SWPadnos> cheap vise built into saw?
[03:23:48] <cradek> no, cheap vise bolted to the milling machine
[03:23:51] <SWPadnos> ah
[03:23:52] <cradek> "cheap"
[03:24:45] <cradek> I hear bridgeports tend to wear in arcs since the table is heavy and it overhangs quite a bit
[03:25:01] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[03:25:14] <SWPadnos> I've heard that they wear in the center because that's where most motion occurs
[03:25:43] <cradek> probably both effects are real
[03:25:49] <SWPadnos> yeah
[03:26:15] <SWPadnos> you can definitely tell that the ovehang issignificant when removing/replacing the table
[03:27:58] <cradek> why did you decide to start with a manual machine?
[03:28:26] <SWPadnos> well, I have a friend who's been using Bridgeports since he was a kid (machinist grandfather)
[03:28:48] <SWPadnos> he's got two maual machines, one of which has been converted to CNC
[03:30:05] <SWPadnos_> hmmm - how much of that did you get?
[03:30:27] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[03:30:43] <fenn> enco surface plates are very inexpensive: 12x18 $24.95
[03:31:17] <SWPadnos> I wionder if I got mine from Grizzly instead of MSC
[03:31:37] <fenn> and they really do ship it free if you spend $50
[03:31:50] <SWPadnos> anyway - my friends recommendation was to get a good manual machine instead of a CNC, since used CNC machines were likely to have been in heavy production environments, and would exhibit more wear
[03:32:06] <cradek> that is probably very true
[03:33:11] <cradek> fenn: I've never seen free shipping - do you have to do something special to et it?
[03:33:14] <cradek> get
[03:33:23] <fenn> bandsaws never cut perfectly square, .002" over 5" sounds pretty good to me
[03:33:40] <fenn> oh, they send you some spam with a secret code
[03:33:48] <fenn> its usually posted in rec.crafts.metalworking if you dont get it
[03:33:56] <SWPadnos> grizzly or enco has free shipping over $50 anyway
[03:35:15] <fenn> The September 07 ENCO Promo code is: WEBRN97 Free shipping for order of $50 or more. I think it expires October 1st 2007
[03:35:35] <cradek> cool, thanks
[03:36:37] <fenn> heh here's a neat idea: one of the $14 mini impact wrenches as an automatic drawbar tightener/loosener
[03:37:48] <SWPadnos> there are plans for a unit like that somewhere
[03:37:53] <SWPadnos> or the guy is selling the units - maybe on eBay
[03:42:29] <fenn> btw you cant make a table out of chunks of different metals because of galvanic potential differences. one metal would oxidize like crazy
[03:43:03] <SWPadnos> you'd have a generator table
[03:43:05] <fenn> so, put that one on the bottom i guess
[03:44:10] <fenn> tho my steel/aluminum lathe seems to be holding up fine...
[03:56:45] <tomp> or leave it galvanic, use the potential for touch probing
[04:08:34] <cradek> fenn: thanks for that code. I ordered a surface plate (and a collet I need, to make the total > $50)
[04:08:51] <cradek> I got "Grade A" which is +-0.00005
[04:30:01] <fenn> i have a surface plate but it's not very convenient. i usually end up using a piece of plate glass
[12:15:16] <jepler> good morning skunkworks
[12:20:34] <skunkworks> Good morning jepler
[12:24:25] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[12:29:12] <jepler> hi cradek
[12:29:58] <jepler> bizarre. In my webserver error logs are two requests for the URL http://www.loanscandyloans.com/php/test.php?...
[14:15:58] <SWPadnos> well. this is annoying
[14:16:08] <SWPadnos> there's no loader program for the 5i22, and the mesa site is down
[14:24:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm. any thoughts on what the default configuration should be for a 5i22?
[14:24:43] <SWPadnos> I'm thinking two connectors used for motors (total of 8), and two connectors for digital I/O
[14:38:07] <jepler> that's fine by me
[14:38:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:56:46] <SWPadnos> is it just me, or is mesanet down? I don't seem to be able to find it in DNS even (which points to a local problem)
[14:57:11] <cradek> it's you
[14:57:18] <SWPadnos> oh. good
[14:57:43] <cradek>
[14:59:19] <SWPadnos> ok, interesting. I can't look it up or get there. I suppose it may be time for me to check that static on line 2
[15:01:34] <skunkworks> Please hold while we connect you to the internet..
[15:01:53] <SWPadnos> I'm sorry. That number has been disconnected