#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-09-04

[03:52:00] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
[12:59:42] <skunkwork> linuxcnc.org is down. (joomla)
[13:01:15] <SWPadnos> argh
[13:07:11] <skunkwork> argh?
[13:07:15] <skunkwork> :)
[13:07:44] <SWPadnos> yea - arg with the extra sounded H at the end
[13:10:35] <jepler> wfm
[13:11:07] <SWPadnos> yeah, works here too
[13:11:34] <SWPadnos> I found out yesterday that dreamhost keeps 6 sets of backups automatically
[13:11:56] <SWPadnos> two hourlies, two dailies, and two weeklies
[13:12:26] <skunkwork> works here also now
[13:12:35] <skunkwork> honestly - it was down.. :)
[13:12:41] <SWPadnos> um - yeah. sure
[13:42:04] <jepler> for dreamhost downtime, that sure was short
[13:42:18] <jepler> usually they try to stay down for at least hours at a time, so that everyone gets a chance to gripe
[16:13:27] <jmkasunich> someone in this house's history really needed to learn about plumbing
[16:13:42] <jmkasunich> "let's install a bathroom in the basement"
[16:14:13] <jmkasunich> break a hole in the main sewer line, lay the plastic drain lines from basement toilet and sink next to/on top of the main line
[16:14:24] <jmkasunich> cover the whole thing in a massive lump of hydraulic cement
[16:14:34] <jmkasunich> "done, let's go have a beer"
[16:15:15] <jmkasunich> wyes? tees? we don't need no steenkin' fittings!
[16:16:14] <skunkwork> Umm - having problems?
[16:17:59] <skunkwork> * skunkwork is glad this old house had new plumbing under it..
[16:19:06] <skunkwork> jmkasunich: now that you have a nice new camera - we expect play by play pictures of the plumbing carnage. (we don't get out much)
[16:19:19] <jmkasunich> fortunately I removed the bathroom and plugged the lines years ago - I want basment space more than another crapper
[16:19:43] <jmkasunich> so all we need to do is cut out the plumbers nightmare and lay a new main line out to the part that is being repaired anyway
[16:20:12] <jmkasunich> I will post pics - I already took a couple of the nightmare, but I'll get a better one after some of the dirt is removed
[16:20:53] <jmkasunich> unfortunately, the outside digging probably won't start till tomorrow, the backhoe is busy elsewhere
[16:21:33] <skunkwork> Good luck.
[16:27:38] <skunkwork> I got my 34 yards of sand delivered for the garage this morning.
[16:28:28] <jmkasunich> building a new one?
[16:28:44] <jmkasunich> 34 yards seems like a lot of sand
[16:28:55] <skunkwork> hah - doesn't look like much :)
[16:29:10] <skunkwork> This house was moved onto this lot - no garage.
[17:28:48] <jmkasunich> pics posted
[17:29:14] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom/sewers-09-04-07.html
[17:30:26] <skunkwork> yikes
[17:31:11] <jmkasunich> hydraulic cement is some incredibly tough stuff
[17:31:28] <jmkasunich> especially when its 8" thick
[17:31:55] <jmkasunich> most of the floor isn't much over 2", but that block took quite a bit of jackhammering to open up
[17:32:37] <SWPadnos> make sure to wipe off the machines when they're done
[17:32:40] <SWPadnos> :)
[17:32:46] <jmkasunich> yeah
[17:33:02] <jmkasunich> I thought about tarping things, but when he started there wasn't much dust at all
[17:33:16] <SWPadnos> and then ...
[17:33:18] <jmkasunich> _until_ he hit the big chunk, and by then it was too late
[17:34:40] <jmkasunich> not shown in the pics is a vertical piece of 3" black ABS pipe - they had a floor drain going into that same hole
[17:38:59] <skunkwork> I am sure there wasn't a building permit issued for that work :)
[18:05:43] <skunkwork> I had a little handheld computer with IIRC a 4004?
[18:05:57] <skunkwork> or was it a 4040
[18:08:16] <cradek> I didn't think the 4004 was in much except calculators
[18:11:43] <SWPadnos> saw this on a wall today: http://www.mightywombat.com/oldtoon.php?year=2007&id=297
[18:14:31] <jepler> "The Ventrix 4004 computer is Windows Vista ready."
[18:14:54] <jepler> http://webpages.charter.net/bkotaska/mcs4_micro.htm "A real working computer using the Intel 4004/4040."
[18:16:41] <cradek> I chose wire-wrap as my construction method because it ... is also reliable and very durable
[18:18:26] <SWPadnos> it is actually pretty durable - no problems from board flexure
[18:18:56] <SWPadnos> SMT components can fracture (almost impossible to spot) if the board bends even briefly
[20:30:36] <skunkwork> could have swore it was a 4004 http://oldcomputers.net/Panasonic_HHC.html
[20:31:24] <cradek> huh, I used to have a stack of those
[20:32:21] <cradek> wow look at that nice printer output!
[20:32:33] <skunkwork> I think - either I threw it out - or it went on ebay.
[20:32:37] <skunkwork> (I had the printer also)
[20:32:56] <cradek> yep I had a printer or two, don't remember ever seeing one work though
[20:33:12] <skunkwork> I think mine worked ok - didn't do anything with it.
[20:33:15] <cradek> I got the lot from a junkpile somewhere - on the eproms was some insurance/actuarial software
[20:33:28] <cradek> they're probably gone now, lost during a move
[20:33:39] <cradek> I would have been really sad if they were 4004 and I lost them :-)
[20:35:04] <skunkwork> this is what got me thru collage. http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Tandy-Pocket-PC-6-Computer-Works_W0QQitemZ230158355858QQihZ013QQcategoryZ1247QQcmdZViewItem
[20:35:14] <skunkwork> still have it - 8K of memory
[20:35:40] <cradek> neat
[20:35:48] <skunkwork> expandable to 16 iirc
[20:35:55] <cradek> I just had an HP48
[20:36:17] <skunkwork> I had the previous version that had only 1k - I thought when I got the new 8k one - I would never fill it up ;)
[20:36:21] <cradek> [[1 2 3][4 5 6][7 8 9]]
[20:36:24] <cradek> [2 3 4]
[20:36:28] <cradek> /
[20:36:30] <skunkwork> I never got into rpn
[20:36:51] <cradek> I still can't use a normal calculator without bitching
[20:37:01] <skunkwork> heh
[20:37:29] <cradek> when I hit a number key and my previous answer is gone forever...
[20:37:35] <cradek> so irritating
[20:39:09] <skunkwork> I loved being able to write exactly the way it was formated (5*6)/108*(6/5) or whatever.
[20:39:54] <jepler> you can do that on hp48, just type the ' key first
[20:40:45] <skunkwork> maybe I could have gotten along with it ;)
[20:41:03] <cradek> but ... nothing is ever written that way
[20:41:17] <skunkwork> it is in my head
[20:41:29] <cradek> nahhhh
[20:41:37] <cradek> is the 6/5 on the top or bottom of the first / ?
[20:41:48] <SWPadnos> my HP 28C and 28S helped me a lot in college
[20:41:56] <cradek> that's a terrible way to write a formula
[20:42:00] <SWPadnos> just having the units reference was extremely handy on several exams
[20:42:05] <cradek> sorry, this is a religious argument
[20:42:26] <jepler> >>> (5*6)/108*(6/5)
[20:42:27] <jepler> 0
[20:42:38] <jepler> yeah it's utterly clear what the value of skunkwork's expression is
[20:42:40] <SWPadnos> I actually scroed 100 on a physics exam largely because I was able to balance units correctly
[20:42:41] <cradek> haha
[20:43:09] <SWPadnos> scored, that is
[20:43:50] <SWPadnos> yay! routing completion: 100% woohoo!
[20:44:06] <jepler> SWPadnos: how long did that take?
[20:44:12] <SWPadnos> waaaaay too long
[20:44:17] <SWPadnos> I did it manually
[20:44:49] <jepler> board layout? I first figured you were talking fpga place & route
[20:44:56] <SWPadnos> ah - nope, not this time
[20:45:03] <SWPadnos> later this week ;)
[20:46:20] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: good for you!
[20:46:26] <jmkasunich> (real men route by hand)
[20:47:09] <SWPadnos> thanks. all i have to do now is figure out how to get correct gerber files for the PCB house, and correct XY data for the assembly house, and manufacturer part numbers for the 274 components, and get everything on order
[20:47:20] <SWPadnos> should be easy to get done by 7:00 or so
[20:47:25] <SWPadnos> O_O
[20:47:32] <skunkwork> I get .33333 ;)
[20:48:11] <jepler> my answer is equal to 1/3 ...
[20:48:11] <jepler> >>> (5*6)/108*(6/5) == 1/3
[20:48:10] <jepler> True
[20:57:24] <fenn> >>> 0 == 1/3
[20:57:27] <fenn> True
[20:57:29] <fenn> *ahem*
[20:59:13] <cradek> [1]> (/ (* 5 6) (* 108 (/ 6 5)))
[20:59:14] <cradek> 25/108
[21:00:06] <fenn> what program is that?
[21:00:07] <SWPadnos> it all depends on whether the (6/5) goes in the numerator or the denominator
[21:00:15] <cradek> fenn: lisp interpreter
[21:00:22] <skunkwork> order of operations - order of operations..
[21:00:33] <cradek> SWPadnos: yeah my point exactly, it's a bad way to write a formula
[21:00:38] <SWPadnos> indeed
[21:00:41] <jepler> skunkwork: "order of operations - order of operations" is also equal to zero
[21:01:38] <cradek> [2]> (/ (* 5 6 6 5) 108)
[21:01:38] <cradek> 25/3
[21:01:42] <fenn> of operations of operations
[21:01:47] <cradek> I still don't know how skunkwork got 1/3
[21:02:13] <jepler> >>> (5*6)/108*(6/5)
[21:02:14] <jepler> 0.33333333333333331
[21:02:17] <cradek> [3]> (/ (* 5 6 (/ 6 5)) 108)
[21:02:15] <cradek> 1/3
[21:02:21] <cradek> oh my mistake
[21:02:52] <cradek> so in the traditional order of operations * and / are the same precedence, right?
[21:03:04] <cradek> do you evaluate R2L or L2R?
[21:03:05] <fenn> no
[21:03:34] <skunkwork> parentheses first - then left to right.
[21:03:36] <skunkwork> iirc
[21:03:41] <cradek> jepler nice "1"
[21:04:47] <cradek> if you go L2R, I think you end up with the first thing I typed which is 25/108
[21:05:06] <fenn> it doesnt matter which direction you read it, the * or / operator applies to the thing to its right
[21:05:23] <SWPadnos> left to right, you get 1/108
[21:05:31] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[21:05:38] <SWPadnos> ((5/6) / 108) * (6/5)
[21:05:45] <SWPadnos> the 5/6 and 6/5 cancel
[21:06:23] <cradek> ahem*RPN*ahem
[21:06:26] <cradek> yay 4:00
[21:06:29] <SWPadnos> oh, well that's different :)
[21:06:32] <skunkwork> (5*6)/108*(6/5) = 30/108*1.2 = .3333
[21:06:52] <skunkwork> sorry for causing a total waste of time..
[21:07:01] <fenn> sorry skunkworks that's wrong
[21:07:07] <cradek> I don't know how to evaluate 30/180*1.2
[21:07:15] <skunkwork> left to right.
[21:07:39] <cradek> haha
[21:07:45] <cradek> bbl
[21:08:19] <skunkwork> (it is how 2 different calculators evaluated it also.) so it must be right ;)
[21:08:23] <fenn> oh crap.. swp messed up the equation
[21:08:30] <skunkwork> heh
[21:08:57] <fenn> everyone please refer to page 103 of your textbooks for the correct problem
[21:09:31] <SWPadnos> oh - 5*6 - that explains it ;)
[21:10:00] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos goes back to PCB inspection