#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-08-01

[00:28:17] <jepler> huh someone on the mailing list is complaining about the unreliability of sf (mailing list archives in this case) :-P
[00:34:15] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/sourceforge_sucks.png
[00:34:33] <jmkasunich> should call that "sourceforge_spams"
[00:39:20] <jmkasunich> I submitted a gripe about that issue on 5/26 - two months later, there is nothing on that tracker except their initial canned response
[00:39:38] <jmkasunich> they didn't comment on it, they didn't dismiss and close it, nothing
[00:47:45] <SWPadnos> at least the Dice ads are working
[00:49:07] <jmkasunich> yeah - the adserver is the most reliable part of the site
[00:49:25] <SWPadnos> it's probably offsite ;)
[00:49:49] <jmkasunich> nah, its just a higher priority
[00:50:49] <jmkasunich> I can only blame them a little bit
[00:51:08] <jmkasunich> the "provide free services and hope people donate to support the costs" business model didn't work
[00:51:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:51:21] <jmkasunich> now they're doing whatever they can to milk some cash out of their traffic
[00:52:32] <SWPadnos> man. nothing makes a hot day seem hotter than (a) eating raw garlic (marinated in a hot pepper oil) and (b) washing dishes
[01:03:35] <jmkasunich> I find it interseting that spicy food tends to come from places with hot climates
[01:04:28] <jmkasunich> "damn, this Mexican desert sun is hot" "Here, have a nice Habenero and cool off"
[01:05:22] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:05:33] <SWPadnos> I think it has to do with keeping little beasties away from the food
[01:22:10] <jmkasunich> ISRT reading something a while back about that
[01:22:23] <jmkasunich> they tested several spices for preservative qualities
[01:23:46] <SWPadnos> did it work?
[01:23:57] <jmkasunich> don't recall the details
[01:23:59] <jmkasunich> some did, some didn't
[01:24:02] <jmkasunich> I think
[01:24:40] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure that's how spices were used in the middle ages and thereabouts - mostly to either help preserve the food, or to cover up the "aged" taste :)
[12:30:26] <jepler> cradek: "I don't fault anyone for not knowing about PKC." either, but I do fault someone who makes the claim multiple times since it advances some sort of agenda he has.
[12:30:49] <SWPadnos> now I wonder what you could be talking about ... :)
[12:33:47] <jepler> hi SWPadnos
[12:38:12] <SWPadnos> hi jepler
[12:38:29] <jepler> looks like we ended up with a good set of board candidates
[12:38:44] <SWPadnos> yep. short list though
[12:39:00] <SWPadnos> just make the board 7 members, and we don't need no steenkin' election :)
[12:39:51] <jepler> hah
[13:21:38] <cradek> jepler: me too, and I think in the next sentence I covered that sentiment, more or less
[13:46:42] <cradek> well, I feel bad for jmk, but that's pretty funny.
[13:49:44] <SWPadnos> heh - indeed
[13:51:39] <jepler> huh -- "python-modbus" gets only 3 hits on google, and the CVS server named in one of them doesn't work, at least at the moment
[13:52:03] <SWPadnos> python-modlib?
[13:52:06] <jepler> er yes
[13:52:40] <SWPadnos> lots more if you remove the hyphen
[13:52:44] <cradek> http://lintouch.org/static/download.html
[13:53:27] <SWPadnos> is is true that there are daily tape backups of the CVS server, that jmk still has "cvs2" waiting in the wings, and there's a vmware CVS server image available somewhere?
[13:53:46] <cradek> I make tape backups (but not daily) AND there is a vmware image available to all of us
[13:53:54] <SWPadnos> ok, periodic then :)
[13:54:30] <cradek> when you weren't looking, the original hardware died and jepler and I used the vmware image
[13:54:40] <SWPadnos> the nerve!
[13:55:01] <SWPadnos> that must have been the 5-minute outage a few months ago :)
[13:55:27] <cradek> yeah it went pretty smoothly.
[13:55:48] <SWPadnos> did you and jmk ever get his cvs2 VM up and running?
[13:56:07] <cradek> he had a machine, I don't recall if it was vm, but I think he doesn't right now
[13:56:13] <SWPadnos> ok
[13:56:28] <cradek> but, he has access to the vmware image anytime
[13:56:36] <SWPadnos> right
[13:56:37] <cradek> (so do you and alex)
[13:56:53] <SWPadnos> once I get my server configured, I can set up another backup here
[13:57:37] <jepler> cradek: how often is ~emcboard/var.cvs.backup updated?
[13:57:39] <cradek> I don't think we need anything else, but feel free if you like
[13:57:42] <cradek> jepler: nivhtly
[13:57:53] <cradek> g
[13:58:58] <SWPadnos> is all the user login information in the VM or in the data backup?
[13:59:06] <SWPadnos> or somewhere else
[13:59:07] <cradek> both
[13:59:27] <SWPadnos> ok, so you (/the cvs admin) need to update the VM image whenever a user is added
[13:59:51] <SWPadnos> or not, since the data restore will overwrite the appropriate files
[13:59:52] <cradek> I think they happen to match today, but the VM will get out of date eventually
[14:00:05] <cradek> right, things like the developer pubkeys are in the nightly
[14:00:26] <SWPadnos> the VM is from 11/26/06, so Chris Morely should have been added since then, I think
[14:00:43] <cradek> cvs.linuxcnc.org-20070706.tar.gz
[14:01:21] <SWPadnos> err - where is that?
[14:01:24] <cradek> jepler did that upload - I'm moving it to ~emcboard now
[14:01:31] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[14:02:17] <cradek> rm: cannot remove `/home/jepler/cvs.linuxcnc.org-20070706.tar.gz': Permission denied
[14:02:51] <jepler> cradek: you're ready for me to remove that file now
[14:02:51] <jepler> ?
[14:02:59] <cradek> yes
[14:03:01] <cradek> thanks
[14:03:06] <jepler> OK
[14:06:25] <SWPadnos> it would be very nice if the unix permission structure supported "sub-root" access
[14:06:34] <SWPadnos> specifically in the case of shared hosting :)
[14:07:38] <cradek> lately I ran into an NIS limitation where users can only be in a small number of groups (8?)
[14:07:46] <cradek> that really makes it worse
[14:07:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:08:03] <cradek> maybe it was more than 8, but still caused me trouble
[14:08:05] <SWPadnos> permissions are one thing that Novell really got rigjht
[14:08:10] <SWPadnos> right
[14:08:19] <SWPadnos> but it was a bit complex
[14:09:08] <cradek> yeah weren't there about 14 bits?
[14:09:33] <SWPadnos> it was more the inheritance that seemed to work well
[14:09:47] <cradek> novell also got some obvious stuff right, like how a copy didn't have to go into the workstation and back out
[14:09:50] <SWPadnos> I think you could add attributes as well
[14:09:52] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:09:54] <jepler> complex like WNT permissions, or complex yet useful?
[14:10:04] <SWPadnos> complex yet useful
[14:10:05] <SWPadnos> :)
[14:10:11] <jepler> (oops, is my bias showing?)
[14:10:19] <SWPadnos> I didn't notice any
[14:10:31] <cradek> the unix model is surprisingly useful/flexible for its apparent simplicity
[14:10:42] <cradek> so much that ACLs never caught on
[14:10:52] <SWPadnos> yes, but its lack of hierarchy is starting to make it less "competitive"
[14:10:56] <cradek> or netgroups
[14:11:35] <SWPadnos> I liked that Novell had separate rights for create, delete, read, write, modify, and I think append
[14:12:02] <SWPadnos> in a sense, modify without delete is silly, since you coulr modify the file to contain 0 bytes (or one NULL byte)
[14:12:46] <SWPadnos> and that rights to change rights were separate - so someone could have the right to modify a file, but not to change permissions
[14:12:59] <SWPadnos> (or vice versa)
[14:18:33] <cradek> I was never a netware admin, but I suffered through some abends and 6-hour-long bullet-sweating filesystem rebuilds with someone who was
[14:18:50] <SWPadnos> well, those were the bad parts
[14:19:22] <cradek> but, there was the cool snake
[14:19:28] <cradek> that made up for it
[14:19:39] <SWPadnos> I'm kind of bummed. my old company used to use Novell + groupwise, but groupwise backups took way too long. so they switched over to Win2k3 for everything
[14:19:42] <SWPadnos> sigh
[14:20:06] <cradek> groupwise sucked back when I was involved with it
[14:20:36] <SWPadnos> they would use Linux + open source stuff, but they can't find people to support it in this area, and they're too interoperability-impaired to look very hard
[14:20:37] <cradek> I think they never quite got smtp
[14:20:59] <cradek> we had to hide it behind a sendmail which carefully spoon-fed it
[14:21:21] <SWPadnos> actually, the features and functionality of GW were great (recently), it was just the 8-hour long backups that sucked
[14:21:36] <cradek> also, it would do the abominable thing where it would get an email to an invalid account, accept it, and then generate a bounce (spam) to whoever was in "From:"
[14:22:03] <SWPadnos> at least with Symantec backup, it seemed that it did a database query for each message instead of backing up the data
[14:22:07] <cradek> (surely they've fixed it by now)
[14:22:26] <SWPadnos> which could be the right thing to do, since the mail system remains up while the backup takes place
[14:22:55] <cradek> I liked how it would refcount attachments instead of copying them around
[14:23:18] <cradek> (if only we could have that with imap today)
[14:23:20] <SWPadnos> yes, and the shared mailbox thing was nice. also "unsend" :)
[14:23:41] <cradek> haha
[14:23:53] <cradek> and "did he read it yet?"
[14:24:00] <cradek> not that I care about either of those, since I never make mistakes
[14:24:20] <SWPadnos> of course not
[14:27:05] <SWPadnos> lintouch looks quite nice
[14:27:12] <SWPadnos> too bad it's been a year since the last update
[14:28:32] <jepler> I still didn't find their python modbus interface ..
[14:30:42] <jepler> is this the right way to wire multiple switches? http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/switch-nc-series.png http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/switch-no-parallel.png
[14:30:48] <jepler> or "a" right way, at least
[14:31:12] <SWPadnos> looks good to me
[14:31:49] <SWPadnos> it may be good to have a series resistor to ground for the parallel case, so you're never connecting directly to a supply rail
[14:32:02] <SWPadnos> same with NC probably
[14:33:52] <SWPadnos> though adding those would require you to put in some R values, since you want a 10:1 or higher ratio between the pull-up and the series resistor
[14:34:10] <jepler> I'll just call them "simplified" diagrams in the documentation where I'm incorporating those images
[14:34:17] <SWPadnos> good solution
[14:36:35] <jepler> since you might also want to add a C for debounce, or schmitt triggers, or god knows what..
[14:37:02] <SWPadnos> sure, plus diodes and the like, and other stuff that may depend on the supply voltage
[14:39:35] <SWPadnos> libmodbus: http://pes.free.fr/
[14:42:50] <cradek> I think matt S had this
[14:43:46] <jepler> yeah, that's the one that pXXl says is no good for unspecified reasons
[14:44:00] <SWPadnos> well, it's french
[14:44:02] <cradek> oh
[14:44:20] <cradek> I don't remember if matt had it working or not
[14:44:26] <SWPadnos> this is a bigger list: http://www.modbus.org/tech.php
[14:44:46] <SWPadnos> the modicon kernel driver may be a good place to start
[14:45:16] <SWPadnos> isn't there also a modbus driver for RTAI/RTAI-LAB
[14:46:52] <SWPadnos> hmmm. maybe not
[16:19:09] <cradek> SWPadnos: p**l just said if we? want help with firmware stuff we should just ask. Isn't that what you recently did, and it only set off one of his tirades?
[16:19:35] <SWPadnos> actually, I asked the question like 6 months ago
[16:19:46] <cradek> oh, interesting
[16:20:06] <SWPadnos> and I think I got a response something like "anyone with a clue can do it, bonehead"
[16:20:35] <SWPadnos> oh - maybe it was only 3 months ago
[16:27:13] <cradek> ha, if you look at "more details" it shows that p**l often checks in 100,000 line changes all at once. That makes him a big contributor I guess (or more likely, it means he screwed up a lot of formatting using indent, or added a bunch of /*~!@$\\ another #if 0 */ -type turdlets)
[16:27:34] <jepler> for stepconf, is it most natural to enter step waveform timings in microseconds or in nanoseconds? Different driver datasheets seem to give different values.
[16:27:50] <jepler> I'm leaning towards ns, because the user will also have to enter the latency number they got from running the latency test, and that's in ns
[16:28:02] <SWPadnos> I bet really fast ones are nanoseconds, and the rest are microseconds
[16:28:04] <jepler> having 4 "us" and one "ns" entry field is worse than anything else
[16:28:43] <jepler> cradek: "more details" where?
[16:28:44] <SWPadnos> how hard is it to have a drop-down for the units?
[16:28:59] <SWPadnos> or a radio button pair
[16:29:13] <cradek> jepler: http://zathras.homelinux.org/stats/emc-stats/
[16:29:50] <cradek> (from his non-seq response to Mark)
[16:32:02] <SWPadnos> I like that CVS tree view
[16:33:23] <jepler> yuck: "StatCVS is written in java"
[16:33:28] <jepler> too bad I'd never get it to work on my system
[16:34:42] <SWPadnos> but it has prettly little 'x'es on deleted folders
[16:35:28] <jepler> new prerelease of stepconf is mostly changed documentation, some of it documenting features I haven't added yet. http://axis.unpy.net/01185733075
[19:20:56] <alex_joni> hi guys
[19:21:11] <jepler> hi alex!
[19:22:24] <alex_joni> jepler: got a small request for you if you can spare 5 minutes
[19:23:06] <alex_joni> can you update the axis webpage with the spanish translation?
[19:24:18] <jepler> alex_joni: hmmm
[19:24:53] <alex_joni> jepler: can be some other day too
[19:25:19] <alex_joni> I'll mail you some screenshots to remind you of this in a couple of days.. is that ok?
[19:26:07] <alex_joni> hmmm
[19:28:25] <jepler> screenshot uploaded..
[19:28:48] <alex_joni> thanks a bunch
[19:43:04] <jepler> alex_joni: if that translation is in the branch as well, it may have the same encoding problem (specified iso-8859-15 but was actually utf-8) ..
[19:43:31] <alex_joni> no, it's only in TRUNK
[19:43:42] <alex_joni> I thought it's not a bugfix ;)
[19:44:07] <jepler> it's too bad one has to modify files in debian/ and so on to add a new translation
[19:44:16] <jepler> ideally it would not be at all invasive and we could do it on stable branch releases
[19:44:33] <alex_joni> otoh, we don't add translations daily
[19:45:43] <jepler> no, not often
[19:57:10] <alex_joni> hmm.. I had no idea I wrote so many lines of code :P
[19:59:22] <alex_joni> heh.. paul's majour work is documentation?
[20:02:26] <jepler> majour
[20:02:49] <alex_joni> according to those stats
[20:33:12] <alex_joni> http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/stats/
[20:34:36] <SWPadnos> those stats look a little outdated :)
[20:37:41] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: what do you mean?
[20:37:59] <SWPadnos> oh - maybe not. duh
[20:38:03] <alex_joni> they are about 14 minutes old
[20:38:11] <SWPadnos> I was looking at all Paul's work, which ended in 2005 or so
[20:40:23] <alex_joni> it's fun to see what you've been working on
[20:40:25] <awallin> alex_joni: nice. it pulls all that from the cvs server?
[20:40:32] <alex_joni> awallin: yeah, from cvs log
[20:40:57] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: it's quite accurate too.. the commit hours for me are dead on
[20:41:02] <alex_joni> http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/stats/activity_time_alex_joni.png
[20:41:56] <awallin> alex_joni: you clearly have it on european time. mine looks similar http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/stats/activity_time_awallin.png but ofcourse much less densely sampled than yours...
[20:42:50] <alex_joni> haha.. jeff's top work was on classicladder
[20:43:37] <jepler> well that's useful to know
[20:43:39] <jepler> *gruntle*
[20:43:58] <alex_joni> at least I'll know who to assign CL bugs to
[20:44:28] <alex_joni> ;-)
[20:44:53] <jepler> sigh
[20:46:15] <awallin> Dallur is pretty precise about when he does commits. Saturday at 14: http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/stats/user_jarl.stefansson.html
[20:47:43] <alex_joni> same day though
[20:47:58] <awallin> yeah, just realized...
[20:50:43] <awallin> jmk has a pretty long history if you look at the dot-cloud graph thingy
[20:51:22] <alex_joni> dot cloud?
[20:51:48] <awallin> third from bottom on this page http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/stats/developers.html
[20:52:36] <awallin> what happened in Nov-2005 ? activity is suddelny boosted
[20:53:41] <alex_joni> I think we got voted back then
[20:54:06] <alex_joni> 27 nov 2005
[20:54:18] <alex_joni> after that we got serious about releasing emc2
[20:54:50] <awallin> hm, that is also where paul_c's commits end
[20:55:36] <alex_joni> awallin: http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/stats/2005-11.html
[20:57:32] <awallin> nothing too revealing there (?)
[20:57:54] <alex_joni> nope, but you can select 2005-12, and so on
[20:58:14] <alex_joni> it was in the middle of getting emc2 ready for 2.0.0
[20:58:45] <alex_joni> which was done in march 2006
[21:00:40] <awallin> there must have been emc1 before Oct-2003 ?
[21:01:10] <alex_joni> oh sure, and even after
[21:01:17] <alex_joni> this is just a stat for emc2 only
[21:02:03] <awallin> ok, oct-2003 was when emc2 was moved to sourceforge?
[21:02:17] <alex_joni> when emc2 was added
[21:02:25] <alex_joni> emc was the one moved to sourceforge
[21:02:34] <alex_joni> in 2000 or so
[21:05:29] <awallin> alex_joni: thanks for the chat! your stats may be interesting for others too. need to sleep now.
[21:08:34] <alex_joni> good night
[23:31:21] <probin> hi
[23:32:05] <probin> I wrote a hal driver for our fpga PCI card. I would like to make it part of EMC under GPL licence.
[23:32:36] <probin> Who should I contact to submit the files or get cvs access
[23:33:04] <SWPadnos> probin, great!
[23:33:11] <probin> this is for the ARCNC100 CNC appliance
[23:33:19] <SWPadnos> ok - I've heard of it but not seen one
[23:33:34] <probin> atelierrobin.net
[23:33:51] <SWPadnos> not seen in person :)
[23:34:10] <probin> I have been discussing this on the EMC channels and folks there suggested I submit the hal driver for inclusion into EMC2
[23:34:38] <SWPadnos> yep - good idea. how big is the code?
[23:34:52] <probin> as well as configs files for our hardware stepgen
[23:34:57] <probin> very small
[23:35:25] <probin> just 3 files in the hal/drivers plus some config files in a arcnc directory under configs
[23:35:34] <SWPadnos> well, I'd offer to take a look at it, but I'm probably not the best person to do it at the moment
[23:36:26] <SWPadnos> maybe you should send a message to the emc-users list announcing that you have the driver written, and ask there for one of the developers to take a look at it for inclusion
[23:36:38] <probin> ok
[23:36:42] <probin> will do that
[23:37:02] <probin> thanks
[23:37:12] <SWPadnos> sorry I can't help more - I'm kind of swamped at the moment
[23:37:35] <probin> its ok, just wanted to know how to proceed and you answered that
[23:37:50] <SWPadnos> excellent! :)