#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-05-24

[00:04:46] <jepler> cradek: yes, I just loaded the RecentChanges page.
[00:05:28] <jepler> and it was also working for me back at 18:04
[00:06:17] <jepler> * jepler wanders off again
[00:08:51] <cradek> thanks
[00:18:05] <cradek> good or bad (lathe mode)? http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/dia.png
[00:18:55] <jepler> works for me
[00:19:52] <cradek> do you think it should be between X and Z?
[00:20:00] <cradek> it's not very pretty
[00:20:29] <jepler> wellllll I understand why you put it there
[00:20:34] <jepler> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/docs/src/gui/i2g-roughing.png?rev=1.1
[00:21:15] <cradek> if I tried to draw a diameter symbol I'm afraid it would look like a slashed 0, or the home icon, or who knows what
[00:21:18] <jepler> I admit I envisioned it going after Z but I see it your way too
[00:21:28] <cradek> that might make it prettier though
[00:21:38] <cradek> I tried it after Z - it seemed harder to understand
[00:21:53] <jepler> put it first, before X?
[00:22:41] <cradek> it is subordinate to the actual X value
[00:23:12] <cradek> nice picture
[00:23:17] <jepler> then it's the best of choices -- check it in
[00:23:44] <cradek> sorry, I didn't mean to ask for your opinion and then say `nay' to everything you said
[00:23:48] <cradek> (I hate that)
[00:24:07] <jepler> that's OK
[00:24:15] <cradek> well it's not set in stone
[00:24:21] <jepler> that's very true
[00:24:32] <jepler> perhaps you should be able to drag and drop them :-P
[00:25:11] <cradek> ha
[00:25:17] <cradek> you're funny
[00:45:51] <cradek> hm, the diameter goes negative
[00:46:00] <cradek> that's either good, or bad, or both
[00:56:05] <cradek> emcmotStatus->spindle.speed += 1; //FIXME - make the step a HAL parameter
[00:56:22] <cradek> yep.
[00:57:07] <cradek> jepler: the spindle does seem to count right - I ran it for 5000 rotations and the index dot still lines up
[01:01:32] <cradek> actually spindle increment should be in the ini file - it's a gui issue, not a hal problem
[02:14:58] <jmkasunich> jepler: you still up?
[02:16:04] <jmkasunich> I'm fine with today's trunk being the "future version" in which naming a signal after a pin is an error
[02:17:24] <jepler> jmkasunich: yep still up
[02:18:24] <jepler> I'll change it so it's an error, then
[02:18:30] <jmkasunich> thanks
[02:22:13] <jepler> halcmd: net siggen.0.cosine => siggen.0.amplitude
[02:22:13] <jepler> HAL:2: Signal name 'siggen.0.cosine' may not be the same as a pin.
[02:23:07] <jmkasunich> something about that phasing
[02:23:16] <SWPadnos> must not be the same ...
[02:23:26] <jmkasunich> "siggen.0.cosine is a pin name, may not be used for a signal" ?
[02:23:32] <SWPadnos> may not looks like it's complaining / asking a question
[02:23:55] <jmkasunich> must not?
[02:24:06] <SWPadnos> HAL:2: Signal name 'siggen.0.cosine' must not be the same as a pin.
[02:24:58] <jepler> OK whoever cares deeply may change the message
[02:25:07] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[02:25:25] <SWPadnos> HAL:2: The name you chose for your new signal, 'siggen.0.cosine' , is the same as a pin. This is very likely to cause confusion, and you're probably already confused - we know this because you're using a pin name for a signal, and the pin youwant to connect won't be connected because of that.
[02:25:34] <jmkasunich> lol
[02:25:52] <jepler> just add a link to the wiki and you're through
[02:26:25] <SWPadnos> ... If you know how to use the World Wide Web, here's a place that has more information (if you can read)
[02:26:26] <jmkasunich> no, you must invoke their browser and load the page!
[02:26:57] <SWPadnos> even better - invoke lynx, because we don't know that they're using X ;)
[02:27:10] <jepler> surf on to the internet at: (spell out the URL in letters just to make it easier)
[02:27:15] <jmkasunich> check the BROWSWE env var first
[02:27:22] <jmkasunich> if not found, THEN invoke lynx
[02:27:31] <jepler> nono you should invoke sensible-browser
[02:27:42] <jepler> that's the debian way
[02:27:45] <SWPadnos> no, run lynx, then if there's a BROWSER env var, run that one too
[02:27:45] <jepler> (there's also sensible-pager)
[02:28:15] <SWPadnos> then use the sensible-browser, because after 3 impressions, they may remember the information
[02:28:30] <jepler> so I think you first popen(sensible-pager) to print the error messsage, then use sensible-browser to show them the wiki page
[02:30:57] <jepler> 'night guys
[02:31:03] <jmkasunich> goodnight jeff
[02:31:09] <SWPadnos> see you Jeff
[02:31:32] <SWPadnos> oh - I finally got around to calling the hotel in Galesburg
[02:31:50] <jmkasunich> did they deny ever talking to you?
[02:32:00] <SWPadnos> they had the reservation, but had me down for one night less than I thought - you may want to check on yours one day
[02:32:20] <SWPadnos> then again, I may just leave a day early anyway, I'm not sure
[02:32:23] <jmkasunich> ok
[02:32:41] <SWPadnos> they did have the correct weekly rate though, which is a good thing
[02:48:30] <cradek> hi
[02:48:43] <SWPadnos> hi
[02:49:48] <cradek> it's depressing, I keep finding stuff that needs improvement, and I hack it and crap it up more instead
[02:50:03] <SWPadnos> well, don't do that ;)
[02:50:16] <jmkasunich> what'd you mess up this time?
[02:50:25] <cradek> the tool table I want to fix at fest
[02:50:30] <jmkasunich> oh
[02:50:37] <cradek> in AXIS if the tool is < 1, I assume it's inches, otherwise mm
[02:50:43] <jmkasunich> I saw that "if its more than 1, assume inches thing
[02:50:52] <jmkasunich> and I said to myself - people are not gonna like that
[02:50:57] <cradek> it's shameful
[02:51:11] <SWPadnos> I'd say leave it the way it is until we fix it right
[02:51:16] <cradek> well, it's busted yesterday and today both
[02:51:24] <cradek> it works for me today
[02:51:27] <SWPadnos> leave it the way it was, I meant ;)
[02:51:53] <cradek> I think AXIS was totally broken for all metric machines with tool tables
[02:52:12] <cradek> I'm puzzled that we didn't hear about it
[02:52:20] <SWPadnos> hmmm. have we heard this from other users?
[02:52:21] <cradek> I suspect VERY few people use tool comp
[02:52:21] <jmkasunich> I'm so very glad the motion controller doesn't deal with units
[02:52:24] <SWPadnos> ok, I guess not :)
[02:52:55] <cradek> (possibly because it's hard to use)
[02:53:17] <cradek> and the gui buttons increasing/decreasing the spindle by 1 rpm? guess nobody uses those either, they were useless
[02:53:26] <jmkasunich> might be more than you think - once they figure it out, they just go on and use it without talking about it
[02:53:59] <SWPadnos> I know there have been spirited discussions about tool length, but I'm not sure about diameter
[02:54:12] <cradek> it's hard to get around it with a lathe - you need to use it to get the arcs you want
[02:54:15] <jmkasunich> I think the EMCMOT_SPINDLE_INCREASE command should pass an increment
[02:54:31] <SWPadnos> yeah - EMCMOT_SPINDLE_INCREASE_BY ...
[02:54:42] <cradek> no, we should remove those stupid messages and send the requested speed in rpm or rps
[02:54:53] <jmkasunich> I was about to suggest that
[02:54:59] <SWPadnos> no - there are any number of UIs that may have up and down buttons
[02:55:01] <cradek> the gui can do addition all by itself
[02:55:11] <SWPadnos> and some of them may be buttons on a panel
[02:55:20] <cradek> hmm
[02:55:26] <jmkasunich> I think this is some of that "NIST Philosophy" think
[02:55:27] <SWPadnos> you have a race condition with multiple GUIs
[02:55:28] <cradek> maybe we need both
[02:55:29] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:55:37] <jmkasunich> you can have 4 guis, and each one can say "increase"
[02:55:49] <SWPadnos> yes, there are problems either way
[02:56:00] <cradek> unless you make the same argument for the overrides...
[02:56:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:56:15] <jmkasunich> nefs
[02:56:22] <cradek> any of the guis can say to set the spindle speed, the rest should show the new value
[02:56:38] <cradek> any of the guis can set it to current+100 if they want to have an increase button
[02:56:38] <jmkasunich> right
[02:56:40] <SWPadnos> that's true
[02:56:58] <jmkasunich> I wasn't saying the increase was needed, just splaining why it was there
[02:56:59] <SWPadnos> and HALUI would just need to be the place for a button to connect
[02:58:46] <cradek> halui is kind of a special case
[02:58:55] <jmkasunich> how so?
[02:59:00] <SWPadnos> it shouldn't be
[02:59:01] <cradek> I think it uses -counts for spindle override for instance
[02:59:14] <cradek> well there's no 'button' equivalent of some gui widgets
[02:59:18] <cradek> like a slider
[02:59:18] <SWPadnos> it has an encoder input for knobs
[02:59:28] <cradek> yeah
[02:59:29] <jmkasunich> thats why it uses counts
[02:59:30] <SWPadnos> I thought it also had the up/down inputs
[02:59:36] <cradek> ok maybe it does
[02:59:41] <SWPadnos> I think the comments have that feature
[05:07:09] <LawrenceG> In the near future, DeskCNC will work with the ncPOD. There will be
[05:07:09] <LawrenceG> some changes because the ncPOD uses the more advanced EMC2
[05:07:09] <LawrenceG> interpreter/trajectory planner.
[05:07:09] <LawrenceG> Fred Smith - IMService
[05:08:13] <LawrenceG> from the CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO yahoo group
[05:08:39] <SWPadnos> yep - noticed earlier today
[05:23:59] <LawrenceG> I saw some of the earlier discussion... should be interesting to see where it goes
[05:24:24] <SWPadnos> tom C cut it off earlier today, so there shouldn't be much more on the list
[05:24:30] <SWPadnos> (caudlet)
[05:25:37] <SWPadnos> I really should be in bed. good night
[05:26:10] <LawrenceG> What surprises me is that there isnt an easy way to get fast I/O in and out of a PC anymore
[05:26:24] <SWPadnos> fast, yes. low latency, no
[05:26:33] <LawrenceG> SWPadnos: goodnight
[05:26:49] <SWPadnos> night :)
[12:01:48] <jepler> I see Alfred Smart has merely reiterated that he has a problem
[12:05:02] <jepler> *grumble*
[12:18:56] <alex_joni> jepler: I think his problem is that he doesn't use a proper loop for estop
[12:19:26] <alex_joni> when jmk & I implemented the stuff for estop in iocontrol, we (he) thought that a ladder would be best
[12:19:37] <alex_joni> iocontrol.cc has a statement about this at the very top
[12:23:31] <skunkworks> alex_joni: how is married life?
[12:25:30] <alex_joni> skunkworks: great
[12:25:33] <alex_joni> no difference :D
[12:26:40] <skunkworks> :) well - congradulations.
[12:26:50] <alex_joni> thanks
[13:05:03] <jepler> alex_joni: I tried unlinking iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in and using "setp" to just make it true all the time -- I still couldn't the behavior he reported.
[14:14:48] <SWPadnos> re: get smart, he hasn't provided his halui file, or any other parts of his HAL configuration
[14:25:13] <jepler> he directly e-mailed me something -- I think it's a partial hal file
[14:25:25] <SWPadnos> ah
[14:28:54] <jepler> there's an inifile down here too but the formatting got fucked by his stupid mailer
[14:29:19] <SWPadnos> yeah - I saw the ini file, complete with word wrapping
[14:29:37] <SWPadnos> I was thinking that he may have (mis)connected something to halui.program_start or something
[14:30:09] <jepler> # connect e-stop write/sense to I/O controller
[14:30:09] <jepler> newsig EstopSense bit
[14:30:09] <jepler> newsig EstopWrite bit
[14:30:09] <jepler> linksp EstopSense <= parport.1.pin-13-in
[14:30:09] <jepler> linksp EstopSense => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[14:30:11] <jepler> linksp EstopWrite <= parport.1.pin-16-out
[14:30:13] <jepler> linksp EstopWrite => iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[14:30:34] <SWPadnos> he has nearly every arrow in the wrong direction, it seems
[14:30:38] <SWPadnos> luckily they're ignored
[14:30:46] <jepler> s/luckily/unfortunately
[14:30:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:31:49] <SWPadnos> OT: do you think it's fair to say that EMC2 bugs that affect users (ie, the execution of their g-code) are generally fixed within a day?
[14:32:14] <jepler> what does "fixed" mean?
[14:32:32] <jepler> a new released version of 2.1 takes weeks
[14:32:44] <cradek> what's a bug report?
[14:32:51] <cradek> often we have to fish for information for days
[14:32:54] <SWPadnos> well, fixed in that they could probably get a new version of source and compile
[14:33:07] <SWPadnos> on the CCED list, there's still some ncpod discussion
[14:33:23] <cradek> I'm not sure why you'd want to make a claim like that
[14:33:26] <SWPadnos> one of the guys basically said "i've had problems, and of course it's because they're using that buggy EMC code"
[14:33:30] <cradek> it's sure true that many bugs are fixed very fast
[14:33:41] <SWPadnos> "use Mach, Art fixed a whole lot of bugs"
[14:33:54] <jepler> I hate everyone.
[14:34:04] <SWPadnos> ok - if it's not really a fair statement, I won't make it :)
[14:34:07] <cradek> you're wasting your breath arguing with those folks
[14:34:29] <SWPadnos> it's the 10000 others who are just reading that I want to impress
[14:34:40] <SWPadnos> with the fact that the people they're listening to aren't telling the truth
[14:34:51] <cradek> sorry, I retract my discouragement
[14:34:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:35:02] <cradek> even if, inside, I still think it's true
[14:35:33] <SWPadnos> sure, I understand it's a stupid battle, but I prefer to do something rather than sit around doing nothing
[14:35:38] <SWPadnos> about it
[14:35:44] <cradek> I understand
[14:36:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm - a few of the bugs in the tracker may be fixed now
[14:36:27] <SWPadnos> specifically, the net command, 1700407
[14:36:38] <SWPadnos> "net command lines silently ignored if signal name is missing"
[14:36:50] <jepler> oh I thought I went ahead and closed that one
[14:37:08] <SWPadnos> could be, but it is SF
[14:37:24] <jepler> I'll close it some more
[14:37:26] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:37:29] <SWPadnos> lock it this time
[14:37:55] <SWPadnos> I thought the dwell problem was also fixed 1680007
[14:38:09] <SWPadnos> but I could certainly be wrong about that
[14:38:48] <jepler> I don't remember that being fixed
[14:39:43] <jepler> I changed axis so it was less likely to be triggered by actions in the GUI (or maybe not possible to trigger anymore?)
[14:39:51] <SWPadnos> ok. I remember discussions, but I don't remember if there was a fix
[14:39:52] <jepler> but if you send the right sequence of NML messages I'm pretty sure it still happens.
[14:39:54] <SWPadnos> ok
[14:41:36] <jepler> (and I don't recall whether I made the axis change on 2.1 or just on trunk)
[14:41:48] <SWPadnos> ok
[14:41:59] <SWPadnos> it appears the bug closing worked this time, thanks
[14:44:15] <jepler> I probably forgot to hit "submit" or something
[14:44:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:44:50] <SWPadnos> well, I sent the mail, complete with a light comment about not being able to find the ncpod source code :)
[15:07:05] <SWPadnos> crap. it looks like linuxcnc.org is down
[15:07:33] <SWPadnos> hmmm. DNS issue
[15:09:18] <skunkworks> It was down for a bit this morning
[15:09:28] <skunkworks> I am running irc thru it right now.
[15:09:35] <SWPadnos> ok
[15:09:52] <skunkworks> comes up here.
[15:09:54] <SWPadnos> dreamhost has a DNS issue at the moment
[15:10:16] <SWPadnos> so it's questionable as to whether you can find it, but once you're connected it's OK
[15:11:12] <skunkworks> I just opened a new browser and got there.
[15:12:21] <skunkworks> and from a different computer.
[15:13:34] <SWPadnos> yep - it's working for me as well (though the wiki isn't for the moment)
[15:14:09] <SWPadnos> ah, there it is :)
[15:18:40] <jepler> yep -- http://www.dreamhoststatus.com/2007/05/23/more-dns-issues/
[15:19:30] <cradek> Your request for http://www.dreamhoststatus.com/2007/05/23/more-dns-issues/ could not be fulfilled, because the domain name www.dreamhoststatus.com could not be resolved.
[15:20:06] <skunkworks> wow - lots of angry people out there.
[15:21:35] <SWPadnos> here's a highly thoght out response: "ya bill? if u think u can do better, y not open ur own company? huh?!?"
[15:22:05] <SWPadnos> if u cant type all the letters, u dont deserve to use a 'puter
[15:23:10] <cradek> I still can't load that page
[15:23:20] <SWPadnos> strange. but it is a DNS issue
[15:23:27] <cradek> sure
[15:28:58] <alex_joni> 'lo guys
[15:29:09] <cradek> hi
[15:29:12] <SWPadnos> hi Alex
[15:31:39] <cradek> I don't understand why an informative page like dreamhoststatus should have comments
[15:31:41] <alex_joni> what's up?
[15:31:55] <alex_joni> cradek: it's a blog.. some people feel the need to let off steam
[15:32:16] <alex_joni> and they probably feel better afterwards if they "told" their oppinion
[15:32:50] <alex_joni> hrmm.. lots of comments now (80 when I checked last time..)
[15:32:58] <cradek> ah I didn't think of that - it distracts them
[15:33:19] <alex_joni> yeah, probably..
[15:33:20] <cradek> keeps them busy for a while, and makes them feel better
[15:33:24] <alex_joni> right
[15:33:31] <alex_joni> way better then flooding support tickets
[15:33:36] <alex_joni> than
[15:33:38] <cradek> kind of like that toy my cats play with
[15:33:53] <alex_joni> kinda the same intelligence for the people who need this :P
[16:58:56] <SWPadnos> hmmm. can the board please decide on what to do about the ncpod code pretty soon?
[17:03:04] <SWPadnos> gah. I can't get to cvs.linuxcnc.org
[17:03:26] <alex_joni>
[17:03:26] <SWPadnos> does anyione know when EMC was first released as GPL (or alternately, when it was last released as PD)?
[17:03:29] <SWPadnos> thanks
[17:03:29] <alex_joni> add it to your host
[17:03:46] <alex_joni> emc is still not GPL
[17:03:50] <alex_joni> only emc2 is GPL
[17:04:08] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I'm pretty sure that the changes Paul made to EMC1 are GPL
[17:04:19] <SWPadnos> among others
[17:04:31] <alex_joni> among others which "might" be non-free
[17:04:32] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure that's only the BDI4 stuff though
[17:04:48] <alex_joni> his BDI-4 is not in the EMC1 tree
[17:04:53] <SWPadnos> right
[17:05:10] <SWPadnos> I guess I'm wondering when the last revisions to the PD code were done
[17:05:15] <alex_joni> and I don't think I saw GPL on any of his emc1 stuff.. but I didn't look to hard
[17:05:24] <SWPadnos> (in the PD code, not in proprietary products based on it)
[17:05:32] <alex_joni> last release was 1.2.0-rc1 I think
[17:06:08] <alex_joni> that was 16 months ago
[17:06:30] <alex_joni> don't think there is anything more recent in there
[17:06:32] <SWPadnos> ok, so still relatively recent
[17:06:41] <SWPadnos> not like the 5-6 year timeframe I was thinking
[17:06:56] <SWPadnos> I guess that's when it moved to SF from the NISTserver
[17:06:56] <alex_joni> weeell.. I basicly reverted some changes and released
[17:07:03] <alex_joni> that was 2000
[17:07:07] <alex_joni> when it got moved
[17:07:09] <SWPadnos> right
[17:07:54] <SWPadnos> hmm. I guess the rumley changes were in the PD code
[17:08:08] <SWPadnos> and maybe Lerman's as well
[17:08:14] <alex_joni> right
[17:08:22] <alex_joni> but they were mixed together
[17:08:25] <SWPadnos> right
[17:09:08] <alex_joni> anyways.. the board shall address them in an email requesting information about version they used
[17:09:38] <SWPadnos> ok. there's another one as well, but it's probably using an older version of the code, http://www.usbcnc.com/
[17:14:09] <alex_joni> I sent an email to the other board members, and we'll handle it
[17:14:17] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: thanks for bringing it to our attention :P
[17:15:11] <alex_joni> hmm.. was there USB2 6 years ago?
[17:15:33] <SWPadnos> I don't think so
[17:16:06] <SWPadnos> I'm checking the usbcnc program now, but the tools I have on this Windows machine aren't all that great :)
[17:16:46] <alex_joni> I see no reason for usbcnc
[17:16:54] <alex_joni> you get 25kHz .. wow :/
[17:17:17] <alex_joni> a parport easily does 50
[17:18:26] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:18:36] <SWPadnos> hiya Ray
[17:18:47] <rayh> Hi Steven
[17:18:53] <alex_joni> hi Ray
[17:19:01] <rayh> Hey Alex.
[17:19:15] <alex_joni> how's it going ray?
[17:19:23] <rayh> I've got pwmgen running a VFD for spindle speed.
[17:20:02] <rayh> Nice work in there.
[17:20:36] <SWPadnos> pwmgen software or pluto/mesa hardware?
[17:21:01] <rayh> pwmgen in HAL and a prototype board from PMDX.
[17:21:06] <SWPadnos> cool
[17:21:09] <alex_joni> yeah, cool
[17:21:29] <rayh> It's an addon to their 131
[17:22:42] <SWPadnos> less $ than Bob Campbell's "digispeed-GX"?
[17:23:02] <rayh> I know nothing of Bob's stuff.
[17:23:03] <SWPadnos> (at $59 or so, I think - isolated PWM or ananlog to analog VFD interface)
[17:23:05] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:23:12] <rayh> ah.
[17:23:20] <SWPadnos> oops - Peter Homann
[17:23:26] <SWPadnos> not Bob campbell
[17:23:43] <SWPadnos> http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=21
[17:23:47] <rayh> This allows you to run manual spindle, auto spindle like turbocad or full direction and speed.
[17:23:52] <SWPadnos> $28 and up, I guess
[17:24:12] <SWPadnos> ah - manual control is a nice option that I don't think the digispeed has
[17:31:25] <rayh> Steve worked pretty hard to make it go with Chinese VFDs and with Sieg's brushless.
[17:40:13] <rayh> I see that the doc (stepper.lyx) is short a couple of connections to pwm. Value and spindle direction.
[17:41:47] <rayh> These will vary with the output device but value needs to be connected to motion.0.spindle-speed-out.
[17:43:39] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: you could mention that rigid tapping is being developed. - which will solve the forward/reverse spindle issue. If I am thinking right.
[17:44:43] <rayh> What kind of issue are you seeing, skunkworks?
[17:46:27] <skunkworks> I was reading the cced list. there is a heated discution about the ncpod that trickled over into emc2
[17:46:50] <rayh> ncpod?
[17:47:12] <skunkworks> 1ppr like what mach uses vs the encoder + index emc uses
[17:47:13] <rayh> You can see that I'm rapidly becoming obsolete!
[17:47:19] <alex_joni> rayh: I sent an email to the board list
[17:47:35] <rayh> ah okay. Let me look.
[17:47:42] <alex_joni> there is a USB controller out there, with some emc code in it
[17:48:17] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/message/92684
[17:51:36] <skunkworks> hmm I think I have stopped recieving devel list emails.
[17:51:43] <skunkworks> receiving
[17:57:15] <jepler> skunkworks: looks like the last message I got was today (5/24) from ben lipkowitz
[17:58:46] <skunkworks> jepler: I must have not notice I wasn't getting them. Last message was 10/31/06. :o
[17:59:45] <skunkworks> that may have been around the time when I lost both. cradek fixed the userlist. must not have thought about the devel list
[18:02:06] <alex_joni> what's your addy?
[18:02:20] <alex_joni> you can send it in a /msg to me
[18:03:05] <alex_joni> samco at empirescreen ?
[18:07:19] <skunkworks> yes
[18:07:22] <skunkworks> thanks alex
[18:07:35] <alex_joni> didn't see anything wrong ..
[18:07:58] <skunkworks> hmm. let me make a phone call
[18:08:05] <alex_joni> maybe cradek remembers what he did for emc-users
[18:08:20] <cradek> nope
[18:08:43] <alex_joni> thought so :P
[18:08:54] <cradek> if it was more than 15 minutes ago I don't remember
[18:09:00] <alex_joni> hahaha
[18:10:10] <skunkworks> I know our mail service somethimes blocks emails it thinks is spam
[18:13:08] <rayh> I'm seeing one issue that I think is related to the tristate estop, estop reset, machine on.
[18:13:41] <rayh> I'm using an external estop button to signal emc that an estop has been pressed.
[18:13:56] <rayh> It puts emc into the estop reset condition.
[18:14:12] <rayh> This condition allows spindle motion.
[18:14:42] <alex_joni> rayh: right
[18:14:52] <alex_joni> for an external estop to keep emc in estop you need ladder
[18:15:08] <alex_joni> it's the only way we could make it flexible enough
[18:15:35] <cradek> I'm pretty sure machine off (which I think is the same as estop reset?) turns off the spindle
[18:15:38] <cradek> am I wrong?
[18:16:09] <rayh> I was using ladder and the second run of my demo.
[18:16:15] <rayh> rung
[18:16:38] <rayh> It doesn't seem to turn the spindle off. Abort does it.
[18:17:20] <cradek> are you using ver 2.1.1 or later?
[18:17:40] <rayh> trunk from a month ago.
[18:17:55] <rayh> I'm guessing it's pretty close to 2.1.5
[18:17:59] <cradek> ok the bug I'm thinking of was fixed about 25 Feb
[18:18:16] <rayh> Should be fixed in this then.
[18:18:18] <cradek> if you hit F2 on the kbd does it stop the spindle?
[18:18:27] <rayh> No
[18:19:00] <rayh> and with the ladder the way I've got it f1 doesn't do anything
[18:19:20] <rayh> The external estop will stop everything.
[18:20:00] <cradek> here, F2, does turn spindle off
[18:20:15] <cradek> I wonder if your version is older than you think, or this was fixed more recently than I think
[18:20:39] <rayh> Might be. Let me hook up that machine and bring it to date.
[18:20:41] <cradek> I just ran sim/tkemc
[18:20:59] <rayh> okay.
[18:21:02] <cradek> F1 F2, F9 (shows spindle forward), F2 (shows spindle off)
[18:21:28] <cradek> if that test fails for you, it's fixed :-)
[18:24:10] <rayh> Well the test failed. So one of us is right. Doesn't matter which. I know how to fix it. Thanks again, Chris.
[18:24:33] <cradek> great
[18:24:34] <cradek> welcome
[18:25:15] <alex_joni> nice
[18:25:17] <rayh> wow. this thing looks really old.
[18:49:10] <rayh> That fixed it, thanks Chris. Now to update my config.
[18:53:38] <cradek> yay
[18:56:20] <jepler> cradek: I did your test on emc 2.1.4 and it showed "ESTOP RESET" ... "SPINDLE FORWARD" on the buttons in tkemc
[18:56:28] <jepler> I'm upgrading to 2.1.5 through apt-get now
[18:58:15] <skunkworks> so - yah - I am recieving them. [Emc-developers]
[19:00:08] <jepler> 2.1.5 shows "ESTOP RESET" ... "SPINDLE OFF"
[19:00:29] <alex_joni> skunkworks: good :)
[19:00:45] <alex_joni> I unchecked the prevent duplicates checkbox
[19:00:47] <jepler> downgrading to 2.1.4 to verify what I saw ..
[19:01:04] <cradek> oh?? It must have been very recent and I forgot to put it in the release notes then
[19:03:42] <jepler> I'm going to take a look through the 'cvs log' between 2.1.4 and 2.1.5 and see if I can spot it there
[19:04:05] <jepler> yep, I get the bug in 2.1.4, gone in 2.1.5
[19:04:07] <cradek> I did, and I spotted it
[19:04:20] <cradek> --- emctask.cc24 Oct 2006 20:04:36 -00001.20
[19:04:20] <cradek> +++ emctask.cc17 Apr 2007 02:21:12 -00001.20.4.1
[19:04:44] <cradek> just didn't make the changelog
[19:15:37] <jepler> I added it to the wiki page with the changelogs
[19:16:15] <cradek> thanks
[19:16:31] <cradek> no reason why we couldn't put it in the cvs changelog too I guess
[19:16:37] <jepler> I was just wondering how to do that
[19:17:00] <cradek> just add the line and do nothing else
[19:17:08] <cradek> we still want the tag to reflect the version that was released
[19:18:38] <jepler> latest comment on that dreamhost page: MY SITE IS STILL DOWN IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[19:21:38] <jepler> though Yunnan Says: Mine 10 domains look like working also.
[19:30:08] <rayh> Yep. Estop reset works nice now.
[19:30:38] <rayh> took a bit to find the change from max-axis to num-axis in HAL.
[19:30:58] <rayh> should probably read the changelog, eh.
[19:31:09] <alex_joni> right
[19:31:35] <cradek> where do we have the list of things that are changing in trunk (which will eventually be required for going from 2.1 to 2.2)?
[19:31:45] <alex_joni> wiki
[19:33:02] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingConfigurationsForDevelopmentVersions
[19:33:08] <cradek> found it, but it doesn't have the change ray mentioned
[19:34:01] <rayh> That change may have happened quite a while back.
[19:34:13] <alex_joni> no, it's quite recent in TRUNK
[19:34:18] <alex_joni> 1-2 weeks tops
[19:34:22] <alex_joni> I think jmk changed it
[19:34:27] <rayh> my fault for using head
[19:34:48] <cradek> I'll try to remember/help everyone remember to keep that list updated
[19:34:54] <cradek> it will be nice when 2.2.0 rolls around
[20:14:23] <SWPadnos> hey guys. I got the info back from the print shop:
[20:14:42] <SWPadnos> #28 for 2-sided printing and drilling a hole in 5.5 x 8.5 ref cards
[20:14:45] <SWPadnos> $28
[20:14:56] <SWPadnos> $45 for lamination using 3 mil plastic
[20:15:06] <SWPadnos> $68 for lamination using 5 mil plastic
[20:15:38] <SWPadnos> I think we'd need to re-punch the laminated hole, or I can ask them to do it (they'd probably do it for free or a couple of dollars total)
[20:26:32] <skunkworks> So - am I understanding the ncpod right? you use emc2 trajectory planner to make a the data that gets dumped into the pod. So FO would not work - would it? I guess maybe you could slow it down.. but not speed it up
[20:27:39] <SWPadnos> dunno
[20:27:44] <jepler> skunkworks: we don't know, since we don't have the source
[20:28:04] <SWPadnos> I suspect that the interpreter makes up primitives (canon) which get sent to the device
[20:28:11] <SWPadnos> the device than runs the TP, I think
[20:28:14] <SWPadnos> then
[20:28:43] <SWPadnos> it should be the same split we have along the NML lines, just using a USB interconnect between the modules instead of SHM
[20:29:05] <SWPadnos> but as jepler mentioned, we don't know, because we haven't seen the code
[20:31:55] <jepler> from the files in the sdk, I was only able to determine that they have a .exe file which contains strings that were added to our gcode interpreter under the GPL license
[20:35:13] <SWPadnos> jepler, do you know what you want on the back side of the G-code quick ref?
[20:35:25] <SWPadnos> or, more accurately, is it done yet? :)
[20:35:48] <jepler> SWPadnos: no, I haven't touched it
[20:35:53] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:36:09] <jepler> if the ref cards are going to be half-letter I might just split the gcode into two halves
[20:36:15] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure what the turnaround time will be from the printer, but it's likely that the sooner the better
[20:36:22] <jepler> I don't want to have to use a jeweler's loupe to read the letters
[20:36:28] <jepler> what quantity was that quote for?
[20:36:34] <SWPadnos> 100
[20:37:04] <SWPadnos> so ~$1.00 each with the thicker lamination
[20:37:39] <SWPadnos> (or ~$0.75 for the thinner stuff)
[20:38:19] <jepler> I guess I don't know enough to say whether the greater thickness is needed
[20:38:27] <SWPadnos> me either
[20:39:15] <SWPadnos> neither of those is "light" - the 3 mil is considered medium weight and the 5 mil is heavy weight
[20:39:57] <cradek> I bet the 5 is that tough stuff that doesn't bend
[20:40:09] <cradek> maybe almost like a drivers license
[20:40:52] <skunkworks> the engineer here says they usually use 1 mil :) so I would think 3 would be good
[20:40:59] <SWPadnos> well, I just measured the thickness of a blister pack for a computer cable, and it's 15 mils thick
[20:42:02] <cradek> you think a laminated-plastic-mil is the same as your crazy american measuring tool?
[20:42:19] <SWPadnos> why, of course
[20:42:28] <cradek> ok, just checking
[20:42:29] <SWPadnos> and my measuring tool is Chinese, so there :P
[20:43:42] <SWPadnos> I'm sure the 3 mil is fine, though the 5 mil may give a better impression :)
[20:55:51] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: I love the statement 'Mach3 works great for threading with a single pulse per rev'
[20:57:17] <skunkworks> the tread has turned into a mach vs emc - linux vs windows
[20:57:20] <skunkworks> thread
[20:58:37] <SWPadnos> yeah, interesting isn't it
[20:59:05] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure Art said that he doesn't get the gage-perfect (or nearly so) threads that Chris was turning out
[20:59:42] <cradek> if someone has some go/nogo threading gauges, we could test
[21:00:11] <cradek> but other than doing that, debating about it is stupid
[21:00:23] <skunkworks> We have a set of thread gauges - but no go/nogo gauges
[21:00:33] <skunkworks> no go/nogo?
[21:00:45] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I made a short tech article about threading too: http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/35/13/lang,en/
[21:01:49] <alex_joni> (just fyi if you need to refer to it in the future)
[21:02:19] <skunkworks> alex_joni: very nice
[21:03:25] <alex_joni> skunkworks: as usual.. it can be extended :P
[21:04:16] <SWPadnos> cool. thanks
[21:05:54] <SWPadnos> tell me - do those things on the end of the screws look like servo mounts to you? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220106988881
[21:10:13] <skunkworks> as much as you can see they do. but it is odd not having the pully on the end with the knob.
[21:10:42] <SWPadnos> not a big deal for me, since I really wand just the motor mounts
[21:10:46] <SWPadnos> want
[21:19:06] <alex_joni> seen http://atelierrobin.net/p41.htm ?
[21:20:39] <alex_joni> "Runs EMC 2.x standalone"
[21:39:33] <alex_joni> talk about understanding things the wrong way.. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/message/92658
[21:44:37] <alex_joni> I say we add chris morley to the devs, and nominate him for keeping track of classicladder
[21:44:40] <alex_joni> :-)
[21:50:19] <petev> I have a G43 question
[21:50:50] <petev> the RS274NGC manual says it's expected that all TLO entries in the tool table are positive
[21:50:59] <petev> so why isn't there a G44 then?
[22:42:51] <cradek> petev: positive and negative work fine
[22:43:02] <cradek> he's not here
[22:48:20] <jepler> cradek: the manual says they must be positive, though
[22:48:53] <cradek> interesting
[22:48:59] <jepler> seems like you want to be sure that the requested machine position is not, in fact, above where you are now
[22:49:05] <cradek> 4 4 -7.25 -4.26 0.0 120.0 60.0 6
[22:49:17] <jepler> (that could mean you already stuffed your tool into the work, after all)
[22:49:17] <cradek> most of mine are negative on the lathe
[22:49:58] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[22:50:19] <cradek> what I'd really like to know is where are my allen wrenches?
[22:50:32] <jepler> "It is expected that all entries in this table will be positive. " -- http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/RS274NGC_3/RS274NGC_33a.html#1013768
[22:50:52] <jepler> I copied that text verbatim into our manual
[22:50:58] <jepler> if it's wrong it should be fixed
[22:52:21] <jepler> I have been thinking we should have a section on the specific areas where we do not follow the rs274ngc spec
[22:52:29] <jepler> but I haven't written it yet
[22:52:43] <cradek> I don't know what expected means ... and I don't know how abnormal my setup is
[22:52:46] <cradek> yes that would be nice
[22:54:03] <jepler> do you think you know any of these items offhand? (deliberate differences from rs274ngc)
[22:54:08] <cradek> where we don't follow it, or where we intended not to follow it?
[22:54:31] <cradek> the location after a tool change
[22:54:32] <jepler> more specifically, where we intend not to follow it
[22:55:15] <cradek> that's the only one I can think of right now
[22:55:25] <jepler> #5678 offsets
[22:55:29] <cradek> soon, the tool table units, if I have my way
[22:55:41] <cradek> #5678?
[22:55:49] <jepler> g5x/g9x offsets stored in parameters
[22:56:01] <cradek> maybe I don't know about this?
[22:56:08] <jepler> you wrote it
[22:56:08] <cradek> I think they are stored that way
[22:56:14] <cradek> oh the units of those
[22:56:14] <jepler> I thought
[22:56:19] <cradek> right!
[22:56:19] <jepler> ys the units
[22:56:46] <jepler> which is the unsupported canned cycle -- back boring?
[22:56:49] <cradek> probing differences: I purposely ignored "even after overshooting the requested point a little bit"
[22:57:14] <cradek> anything with spindle orient - but that's simply unimplemented, not a departure on purpose
[22:57:41] <jepler> G84 right-hand tapping? It says this is currently unimplemented up above
[22:57:51] <cradek> not sure
[22:57:54] <jepler> G87
[23:00:09] <jepler> "In EMC2, the machine does not return to its original position after a tool change. This change was made because the new tool might be longer than the old tool, and the move to the original machine position could therefore leave the tool tip too low."
[23:01:13] <jepler> the numbers stored in 506x after a probe -- they are in active units, not inifile units, right?
[23:01:37] <cradek> I think they are in active units AND with all active offsets applied
[23:01:49] <cradek> iirc, that is not explicit in the spec
[23:01:50] <jepler> but that's not a difference between emc2 and rs274ngc
[23:02:08] <cradek> yes, iirc ngc is vague about it
[23:06:55] <jepler> What's the rationale for the G38.2 retraction change?
[23:07:21] <cradek> you mean that we don't retract when it's done?
[23:07:25] <jepler> yes
[23:07:29] <cradek> that may just be unimplemented
[23:07:42] <cradek> (I think it's probably good to do that)
[23:08:25] <cradek> jmk and I want to discuss better probing primitives (to allow better surface digitizing)
[23:09:12] <jepler> I don't doubt that it's possible, particularly with a 3-point probe
[23:09:18] <cradek> yep
[23:09:38] <cradek> you can just "walk" over the surface with the probe
[23:09:47] <jepler> I imagine some kind of inverted-V shaped movement
[23:11:53] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/message/92772
[23:12:39] <skunkworks> I would reply but it is getting way off topic - and I would sound like an emc fan-boy
[23:13:38] <cradek> skunkworks: I suggest spending your effort for something useful instead
[23:13:44] <skunkworks> :)
[23:15:13] <cradek> in may 2007 not everyone feels like free software is for them - that shouldn't injure us in the least
[23:16:25] <cradek> it was like that in may 1997 too - wonder how it will be in may 2017
[23:17:39] <skunkworks> well - I never thought I would get into linux either
[23:18:03] <cradek> I do know that the EMC will be around in 2017 if anyone still cares to work on it.
[23:30:26] <cradek> jepler: the probing overshoot?
[23:35:08] <cradek> jepler: I like the quick ref changes
[23:45:27] <jepler> cradek: G43 H-1 is particularly improved
[23:45:43] <cradek> yes