#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-05-22

[00:00:17] <cradek> I probably wouldn't be the one to fix that one, that's why I ask you to report it so it's not lost
[00:01:03] <mschuhmacher> i thought about it and it affects its only the Backplot and its minor
[00:01:59] <mschuhmacher> in the Axis Backplot
[00:02:02] <cradek> even if it's minor, it might be nice to record it
[00:04:27] <mschuhmacher> ok
[00:04:41] <mschuhmacher> another one
[00:06:31] <mschuhmacher> a feature request
[00:17:42] <mschuhmacher> cradek: ok i´ll add it to the bug-database
[00:18:40] <cradek> thanks
[00:18:44] <mschuhmacher> thank you for fixing
[00:19:05] <mschuhmacher> the bug
[00:19:11] <cradek> you're welcome
[00:22:36] <SWPadnos> so mschuhmacher, what's the feature request?
[00:23:00] <mschuhmacher> ok
[00:24:50] <mschuhmacher> in the other guis if you execute a programm it scrolls automatically, in a way that you can preview the G-code lines
[00:25:08] <SWPadnos> other than which one?
[00:25:21] <mschuhmacher> tkEMC
[00:25:35] <SWPadnos> ok. I thought tkemc also did that
[00:27:09] <SWPadnos> hmmm. it is hilighting for me, but the hilight color is very bad - almost invisible
[00:31:37] <SWPadnos> the hilighted line is the last visible line though. are you asking that the hilighted line be in the middle or at the top of the displayed lines?
[00:34:24] <mschuhmacher> it should be in the middle or a bit above, you should be able to see the exectuted line
[00:35:07] <mschuhmacher> and the lines to be executed
[00:37:51] <SWPadnos> ok - that sounds likea good idea
[00:39:37] <mschuhmacher> :)
[01:02:29] <mschuhmacher_> mschuhmacher_ is now known as mschuhmacher2
[01:03:37] <mschuhmacher2> mschuhmacher2 is now known as mschuhmacher_
[01:21:22] <mschuhmacher_> mschuhmacher_ is now known as mschuhmacher
[04:28:22] <cradek> arg, I slowly lose position when the spindle is running
[04:29:02] <SWPadnos> sounds like noise to me
[04:29:06] <cradek> yep
[04:29:38] <SWPadnos> got a question re: JonE's last message
[04:29:40] <cradek> I guess it was all going too well - it's no fun if there's not some kind of problem
[04:29:55] <SWPadnos> do you know what happens when you set UNITS to a negative number?
[04:29:57] <SWPadnos> he
[04:29:58] <SWPadnos> h
[04:30:39] <cradek> ideally, someone comes along and puts you out of your misery
[04:30:52] <SWPadnos> well, that might be nice
[04:31:14] <cradek> but seriously, no idea
[04:31:28] <cradek> stranger yet is he is trying to use inch
[04:31:34] <SWPadnos> ok. I'm not sure it's a problem, but it did stand out to me
[04:31:41] <cradek> that's a good catch
[04:31:49] <SWPadnos> yeah, there seem to be mixes of the two in the ini
[04:31:59] <SWPadnos> FERROR=1
[04:32:03] <cradek> wow
[04:32:07] <SWPadnos> UNITS=-1
[04:32:13] <SWPadnos> OUTPUT_SCALE=-1 ...
[04:32:18] <cradek> *sigh*
[04:32:22] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:32:31] <SWPadnos> maybe someobody can go over this at Fest
[04:32:41] <cradek> do you know what ppmc.encoder.2.index might be?
[04:32:45] <SWPadnos> but I thikn it might take some beer or something
[04:32:54] <SWPadnos> I haven't dared to look at the code yet
[04:32:58] <SWPadnos> I might become an experrt
[04:33:06] <cradek> I have a few times, and that didn't happen
[04:33:11] <cradek> so don't worry too much
[04:33:18] <SWPadnos> well, I wrote it in the first place :)
[04:33:27] <SWPadnos> or ported it, more accurately
[04:33:45] <cradek> ok I didn't know that
[04:33:50] <SWPadnos> damn
[04:33:50] <cradek> you have some of that hardware?
[04:33:54] <SWPadnos> yes
[04:34:14] <SWPadnos> I was in the middle of getting all the stuff together so I can run a motor with it, but got distracted
[04:34:22] <cradek> looks like index-enable went low before there's any motion
[04:34:24] <SWPadnos> that was a couple of weeks ago, I think
[04:34:51] <SWPadnos> yes, it does look that way
[04:35:11] <SWPadnos> I still don't really know how all the index bits are supposed to work now
[04:35:30] <cradek> well there should only be one - I don't know what that other one is
[04:35:42] <cradek> it must be latched, because they seem to make sense
[04:36:09] <SWPadnos> I thought there was a RW bit that was supposed to tell the driver to reset the count on index, and reset the pin when that happens
[04:36:24] <cradek> yes the driver resets the RW pin
[04:36:40] <SWPadnos> and the index bit is just an output telling whether the index is hit at the moment (or something)
[04:37:07] <cradek> yes that seems likely, but is not part of the encoder spec (I think)
[04:37:25] <SWPadnos> ok. I should look at that - it's been around a whole year
[04:39:13] <cradek> I'd like the ppmc stuff to work right, but I am nearly powerless to help debug it
[04:39:21] <SWPadnos> yeah - that is a problem
[04:39:26] <cradek> seems jon is the one who needs to do that
[04:39:36] <SWPadnos> that's true
[04:39:55] <SWPadnos> though an extra set (or three) of eyes can be very helpful there
[04:39:58] <cradek> if he wants help at fest I'd be happy to work on it - but he'll have a lot of setup to do
[04:40:20] <SWPadnos> hmmm. do you know if there'll be a BP getting retrofitted again?
[04:40:37] <cradek> I don't know - maybe that one will still be there - not sure whose it even was
[04:40:42] <SWPadnos> I'm selfishly thinking of bringing some G-code/CAD files for motor mounts for my mill
[04:40:59] <SWPadnos> machine them onthe Mazak, check them on a handy BP :)
[04:41:03] <cradek> the mazak will definitely be working
[04:41:14] <cradek> (unless someone really screwed it up)
[04:41:23] <SWPadnos> we can even try rigid tapping some of the threaded holes, if you like ;)
[04:41:32] <cradek> yeah you wish
[04:41:35] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:41:44] <SWPadnos> I can also bring a Tapmatic or two
[04:45:01] <cradek> interesting - I think it's impossible for the ppmc driver to clear index_enable without also setting index
[04:47:55] <SWPadnos> hmmm. yes, it does look that way
[04:48:36] <cradek> (... if he's running this code)
[04:48:59] <SWPadnos> his code is pretty recent - there are labels on the scope plots
[04:49:24] <cradek> if he's running this code, that seems like a great clue
[04:50:07] <SWPadnos> I guess it would be helpful if we knew what part of the homing cycle that plot covers
[04:50:16] <SWPadnos> (it's not obvious to me, though it may be to you)
[04:50:19] <cradek> yeah
[04:50:22] <cradek> nope
[04:55:10] <cradek> we could suggest he get a pluto...
[04:55:53] <SWPadnos> perhaps we could bring an extra to Fest ;)
[04:56:10] <cradek> I do have 1 (or 2?) spares
[04:57:18] <SWPadnos> I have some extra Mesa cards as well, I'm sure we can set him up with some FPGA card
[04:57:33] <cradek> wonder if index on mesa works
[04:57:41] <SWPadnos> dunno
[04:58:20] <cradek> arg, midnight again, goodnight
[04:58:29] <SWPadnos> no, it's 1AM - good night
[12:01:27] <jepler> hi guys
[12:15:33] <cradek> hi jepler
[12:17:40] <jepler> cradek: did you actually test your change to axis?
[12:17:57] <jepler> here's what my tk documentation says about an empty or unspecified -defaultextension:
[12:18:00] <jepler> -defaultextension extension
[12:18:03] <jepler> Specifies a string that will be appended to the filename if the
[12:18:06] <jepler> user enters a filename without an extension. The default value
[12:18:08] <jepler> is the empty string, which means no extension will be appended
[12:18:11] <jepler> to the filename in any case.
[12:18:14] <jepler> "no extension will be appended to the filename in any case"
[12:20:51] <jepler> OK maybe the behavior is different from the tk documentation
[12:21:13] <jepler> so I'm forced to ask: did they actually test their code against their documentation?
[12:24:38] <cradek> heh, I did test it...
[12:26:21] <jepler> OK so with this change if I have the file "example1" and I type "example1" RET, axis opens that file?
[12:26:27] <jepler> is that the point of this?
[12:26:41] <jepler> (what do you have to do to get files without extensions to appear in the list?)
[12:29:18] <cradek> you just pick all files (*) on the bottom
[12:29:35] <cradek> yes, it used to be impossible to open "example1", even by clicking on it
[12:31:00] <jepler> if the tk open file dialog didn't suck...
[12:31:31] <cradek> well I did remember you saying that
[14:27:58] <cradek> morning ray
[14:39:47] <rayh> Hi chris
[14:42:14] <rayh> I'm seeing an issue during compile of the documents.
[14:42:18] <rayh> No pdflatex on my system.
[14:42:34] <rayh> I don't see it in the ubuntu repositories.
[14:43:17] <jepler> tetex-bin: /usr/bin/pdflatex
[14:43:49] <jepler> looks like it comes from the package called tetex-bin
[14:44:25] <rayh> Okay. Thanks
[14:45:36] <rayh> Synaptic says I've got it. Will try reinstall.
[14:49:57] <rayh> Ah. Got it now. Thanks jeff.
[15:06:18] <SWPadnos> hi guys
[15:06:31] <SWPadnos> I've just realized that I can't test PPMC indexing here, because I don't have rev2 firmware
[15:08:28] <skunkworks> excuses - excuses ;)
[15:08:35] <SWPadnos> pthbthbthbth!
[15:09:07] <skunkworks> * skunkworks wipes the spittle of his monitor
[15:09:22] <skunkworks> *off
[15:09:38] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:09:47] <SWPadnos> I was wondering how often your monitor spits
[15:38:44] <rayh> Reminds me of the second year we demo'd the hexapod at NAMES.
[15:39:12] <rayh> Thing lost power and drilled a small hole in one of NIST's laptop displays.
[15:39:24] <rayh> speaking of drooling.
[15:40:02] <jepler> haha oops
[15:40:28] <jepler> how much does it cost to get a refill of liquid crystal for a laptop display, anyway?
[15:40:47] <skunkworks> ah - why was the laptop in the work envelope?
[15:56:57] <rayh> Uh. I'm not real sure why it was there. I think it got moved for some reason by someone wanting the table it was on. Then they unplugged us.
[16:28:22] <cradek> rayh: I saw on the agenda that smithy will be showing some stuff at fest - will any of that be emc related?
[17:03:48] <rayh> Yes. Smithy will be showing three base mills with motors, a PC ready control addition, and a CNC control using EMC.
[18:05:17] <cradek> neat
[18:06:09] <SWPadnos> hmmm. do we even use "milltask / minimilltask" any more?
[18:07:20] <jepler> I think 'milltask' is used for everything
[18:07:43] <jepler> 'milltaskcanon' is unused by any stock configuration and I can't understand why you'd use it
[18:07:59] <SWPadnos> ok. I'm crafting a response to JonE's latest re: Stuart Stevenson, and I just happened across that in the ini file
[18:08:03] <jepler> (it should be the same, except that it takes a text representation of "canon" calls instead of g-code -- but it's probably bitrotted)
[18:09:46] <SWPadnos> and I know we no longer need the special support for a second parport with all the extras a BP mill has
[18:11:44] <jepler> so you're suggesting that the comment "# TASK = minimilltask" should be removed from the stock inifiles since there is no minimilltask
[18:12:06] <SWPadnos> I wasn't making a suggestion, but that's one option
[18:12:18] <jepler> (hm it might trim 200k or so from the deb to not package milltaskcanon)
[18:12:38] <SWPadnos> it may even be possible to eliminate the task section, unless the cycle time is actually used
[18:12:51] <jepler> I think it is
[18:13:38] <cradek> there is probably no need to change it, now that there is hungry mode
[18:13:48] <jepler> well that's probably true
[18:13:59] <jepler> but unless it's causing trouble there's usually little reason to remove flexibility
[18:14:25] <cradek> it seems good to remove things that are useless, especially if it's whole sections
[18:15:14] <cradek> it probably makes configuration less confusing if only the important things have your attention
[18:17:04] <SWPadnos> I'll bet it does
[18:17:51] <cradek> earlier, alex broke up the ini files into two parts (using comments) - the part you have to change and the part you never need to worry about
[18:17:54] <SWPadnos> funny - I just noticed a big typo in the hal file
[18:18:10] <SWPadnos> all the index signal names are Xindex ...
[18:18:55] <cradek> ouch
[18:19:02] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:19:11] <cradek> what does that do?
[18:20:13] <SWPadnos> it probably disconnects axis 0,1 index-enable and connects only axis 2 with a poorly named net
[18:20:28] <SWPadnos> unless the "must disconnect before connecting" patch is in there
[18:20:31] <jepler> maybe the change to "linkXX" to make that an error should be backported
[18:20:55] <SWPadnos> is the scope signal naming patch backported?
[18:21:01] <jepler> no
[18:21:03] <jepler> that's a new feature
[18:21:08] <SWPadnos> then he's using TRUNK
[18:21:25] <cradek> jon elson causes people to do that
[18:21:26] <jepler> linkXX being picky is newer than the labels
[18:21:53] <SWPadnos> ok, so an update is in order for him
[18:22:03] <cradek> that's one of the things I'd like to change about the world, if only I had the power
[18:22:16] <jepler> ah -- no, that still won't be signalled as an error
[18:22:24] <cradek> (granted, it's down the list a bit)
[18:22:27] <SWPadnos> does net not look first?
[18:22:28] <jepler> that's just a net with several I/O pins linked to it, which is perfectly OK in general
[18:22:51] <SWPadnos> doesn't net look for a signal with the same name?
[18:22:59] <jepler> you end up with 1 net that has 6 pins linked to it
[18:23:07] <SWPadnos> ah - that could be even more betterer
[18:23:11] <SWPadnos> :)
[18:23:12] <jepler> 'net signame ...' is OK even if signame already exists
[18:23:22] <jepler> it adds pins to the net if they weren't there already
[18:23:32] <SWPadnos> ok, that makes sense
[18:24:16] <jepler> I designed it that way because I wanted to let the "net" syntax be used in e.g., core_stepper / standard_pinout, even though the full net for Xdir isn't declared in any one hal file
[18:24:36] <jepler> with OUT pins it would be an error because you couldn't link a second writer
[18:26:53] <cradek> wonder if he's homing more than one axis at a time
[18:27:06] <SWPadnos> whether he's trying to or not
[18:27:23] <jepler> HOME_SEQUENCE is in the inifile but commented out
[18:35:28] <SWPadnos> "Combining high grade media and top quality equipment, we ensure that you will receive fast runaround service with high play back compatibility."
[18:35:47] <SWPadnos> I wonder if they're a good place to get CDs made ...
[18:36:34] <cradek> "you're bidding on a picture of this flatscreen TV"
[18:36:40] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:36:54] <SWPadnos> whenever I get the runaround, I want it to be as fast as possible
[18:37:05] <jepler> hahahahahaha
[18:37:29] <SWPadnos> otherwise they look quite competetive: http://www.doadisc.com/CdDupColor.aspx
[18:39:12] <SWPadnos> but it does look like you need to send them a master disc, no ISO URL
[18:40:06] <jepler> I can see it their way too: most lusers won't know where to host an ISO URL
[18:40:24] <jepler> most lusers have proprietary windows software with proprietary formats instead of ISO
[18:40:32] <SWPadnos> yep, and they're subject to transfer errors
[18:40:49] <jepler> what do you tell luser if they put the iso on their modem line, when you can't do the 2-day turn you promised because it's still downloading?
[18:41:21] <cradek> just because their service is what some people need doesn't necessarily make it what we want
[18:41:25] <jepler> and don't underestimate the bandwidth of a bin full of CD mailers
[18:46:33] <jepler> I'm just saying, they don't do it that way merely because they're clueless
[18:46:43] <cradek> I understand
[18:46:56] <SWPadnos> right - it's because most customers are expected to be clueless
[18:53:51] <SWPadnos> so, I've been looking into the CD duplication thing (as you can tell)
[18:54:20] <SWPadnos> I'm thinking about 50-100 discs, with full color printing on the disc, in a paper sleeve or thin jewel case, without a printed insert
[18:54:42] <SWPadnos> (though an insert may be a good thing also, it does seem to add a lot to the price)
[18:54:52] <SWPadnos> is that in line with what you folks are thinking?
[18:59:44] <jepler> more than 100 seems like a foolish idea
[19:00:06] <SWPadnos> yep, considering they'll be "out of date" before they're delivered
[19:06:55] <jepler> any we don't give away at fest are junk
[19:07:09] <SWPadnos> yeah, for the most part
[19:07:29] <cradek> they would be useful for months - maybe until a 2.2 release
[19:07:32] <SWPadnos> it may be best to just duplicate some there
[19:07:40] <cradek> (... if anyone needs them)
[19:08:42] <SWPadnos> I think with the right media, I can make 2 discs every 5 minutes or so (I can stick a second high speed recorder in a machine)
[19:13:09] <cradek> If you do that, we could spend what little money we want to spend on jepler's gcode card idea
[19:14:40] <SWPadnos> ah - true
[19:15:11] <RichiH> [Global Notice] Hi all, as you may be aware the PDPC had a board meeting today. During this meeting a few changes were made to the structure of the board. David Levin stepped down as president, replacing him is Christel Dahlskjaer (freenode Head of Staff). Phil Stracchino became secretary pro tem, and David 'cdlu' Graham and Richard 'RichiH' Hartmann joined the board! Here's to a prosperous future for freenode and the PDPC!
[19:18:26] <alex_joni> hi guys
[19:18:33] <cradek> hi
[19:18:42] <SWPadnos> hi
[19:19:32] <alex_joni> what's up?
[19:20:07] <cradek> just the usual
[19:20:59] <alex_joni> heh.. nice
[19:21:08] <alex_joni> I just got home (10pm)
[19:21:13] <SWPadnos> bummer
[19:21:20] <SWPadnos> unless you were out eating or something
[19:21:28] <alex_joni> I was.. with some potential clients
[19:22:30] <SWPadnos> hmmm. on the printing thing, I may be able to print a bunch of quick-ref cards on a color printer that happens to print with waterproof wax
[19:22:34] <SWPadnos> (a crayon printer)
[19:23:02] <SWPadnos> I guess that's not really necessary, since the cards should be laminated anyway
[19:23:03] <alex_joni> just remember to mail me one too ;)
[19:23:05] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:29:55] <alex_joni> http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=F093C24A&nplm=TK642LL/A
[19:31:49] <SWPadnos> I wonder what the resolution is
[19:32:43] <jepler> doesn't need to be too large -- the ipod video is no better than TV quality from all I've heard
[19:33:24] <SWPadnos> yeah, and I guess the non-ipod version could be used for other applications :)
[19:52:43] <alex_joni> well.. I'm off to bed
[19:52:46] <alex_joni> night all
[19:52:51] <SWPadnos> night Alex
[20:04:09] <skunkworks> so that was the whole homing issue? The same signal name for all 3 axis?
[20:04:25] <cradek> hard to say
[20:04:57] <SWPadnos> we'll find out (possibly) when we get a response from Jon or Stuart
[22:43:45] <mschuhmacher> anyone interested or had experience with tool monitoring ?
[22:44:21] <SWPadnos> do you mean stuff like tool breakage sensing?
[22:45:56] <mschuhmacher> yes
[22:46:25] <mschuhmacher> and torque measuring
[22:46:46] <SWPadnos> well, if you have the hardware, you can get the information into EMC and do something with it
[22:47:17] <SWPadnos> but it all starts at the hardware: spindle load sensors, optical (or other) tool breakage sensing ...
[22:48:21] <SWPadnos> the thing missing from EMC is that the controller doesn't know when it's supposed to be cutting material and when it's supposed to be moving through air
[22:49:06] <SWPadnos> so simply monitoring spindle load can't be used for tool breakage sensing (though you could shut down EMC or use feedrate override if it decides the load is too high)
[22:50:40] <mschuhmacher> http://www.artis-systems.com/DOWNLOAD_CENTER/HTML_UK/Applikationen/Applications%20Report-00-09-01-N.pdf
[22:51:46] <mschuhmacher> it´s only a thought
[22:52:13] <SWPadnos> ok, for a production machine, I think EMC could do something like this
[22:52:35] <SWPadnos> but that system needs to learn a load profile, then has thresholds set above the learned data
[22:53:27] <SWPadnos> as long as you have a spindle load sensor (current sensor, at the simplest), and an A/D converter input to EMC, you should be able to set up something like hal xampler / streamer to get a profile
[22:53:46] <SWPadnos> then you monitor the load during subsequent runs, and compare to the captured data
[22:54:06] <SWPadnos> (it's not quite that simple, but I think most of the parts are in MEC already)
[22:55:02] <mschuhmacher> I thought about a compare function in halscope or something
[22:55:33] <mschuhmacher> that the user can see the differences graphically