#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-04-22

[00:01:14] <alex_joni> cradek: when you get around it.. I might have some notes about it
[00:01:37] <cradek> great
[00:01:46] <cradek> brb, rebooting a few more times
[00:02:13] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi/01149939865
[00:04:20] <alex_joni> gotta crash now..
[00:04:21] <alex_joni> good night all
[00:04:26] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[00:14:48] <cradek> night alex
[00:26:12] <cradek> haha one of the cats gets upset at ceiling fans
[00:26:21] <cradek> she's a fruit-loop
[00:26:28] <jmkasunich> lol
[00:26:44] <jmkasunich> our dog gives the fan the eye when it first starts turning....
[00:26:52] <jmkasunich> "I'm not so sure about that thing...."
[00:28:46] <cradek> http://dan.drydog.com/patsyann/doghaiku.html
[00:28:51] <cradek> I sound the alarm!
[00:29:19] <cradek> haha
[00:29:20] <jmkasunich> yeah, he definitely sounds the alarm
[00:29:25] <jmkasunich> don't need a doorbell
[00:30:01] <jmkasunich> those are good
[00:30:18] <jmkasunich> I showed you the cat haiku didn't I?
[00:30:25] <cradek> no I don't think so
[00:30:42] <cradek> I hate to laugh at her, since she's obviously very concerned, but it sure is funny
[00:31:14] <jmkasunich> http://www.rdrop.com/users/tierna/haiku.html
[00:32:08] <cradek> ah I remember: "New rule tomorrow"
[00:32:10] <cradek> very funny
[00:43:05] <cradek> hmm, I sure don't understand why alex's fix would fix it
[00:43:16] <cradek> but it also looks very related
[00:43:21] <cradek> we'll see!
[00:43:43] <jmkasunich> do you really have to put bootsplash in there?
[00:44:10] <cradek> yes, I want it to continue to look like ubuntu
[00:44:19] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich longs for the good old days when booting computers told you what was going on in 80x25 black and white with no silly pictures
[00:44:36] <cradek> thankfully we're still free to have that on our systems
[00:45:18] <cradek> in the still-better old days, we had much better than 80x25 text consoles
[00:45:27] <jmkasunich> I don't know why it bugs me so much - I almost never see it anyway, because I don't reboot often
[00:48:38] <cradek> * cradek is making an updated livecd
[00:48:54] <cradek> 180MB of updates right after installing is just a little silly
[00:49:02] <jmkasunich> yeah
[00:49:24] <jmkasunich> although, might I make a suggestion?
[00:49:31] <cradek> of course
[00:49:37] <jmkasunich> wait until a few weeks (or less) before the workshop
[00:50:03] <jmkasunich> that way we can give out disks there - dialup folks would especially appreciate it
[00:50:09] <cradek> or at least update it again then
[00:50:12] <cradek> great idea
[00:50:32] <cradek> we have a duplicator at work - I could make a stack with little effort
[00:50:41] <jmkasunich> that would be nice
[00:54:38] <cradek> 32MB (compressed) remaining on the CD
[00:54:46] <cradek> before fest we might want to think about what might be nice to add
[00:54:56] <jmkasunich> cvs and a compiler
[00:55:10] <cradek> no way will the build deps fit
[00:55:32] <jmkasunich> I didn't say build deps
[00:56:01] <jmkasunich> the docs deps in particular (lyx and such) are not important
[00:56:19] <jmkasunich> actually, none of them are important - you can always apt-get them
[00:56:42] <cradek> I don't see why the compiler is different
[00:56:47] <cradek> it's not much use if there's nothing you can compile
[00:57:13] <jmkasunich> I know, thats why I said "none of them are important" I was basically retracting my statement
[00:57:24] <cradek> ah I misunderstood then
[00:57:31] <jmkasunich> how big is cvs?
[00:57:40] <cradek> small
[00:58:00] <cradek> Installed-Size: 3140
[00:58:22] <jmkasunich> (its not listed under build-deps, if we find ourselves telling someone to get CVS (because of a bugfix), it would be nice to say "get build-dep, and do this cvs command, and you are good to go"
[00:58:32] <jmkasunich> 3140bytes, or K?
[00:58:38] <cradek> k
[00:58:51] <jmkasunich> thats not small by my standard then, 3meg....
[00:59:04] <cradek> yeah I'm a bit surprised too
[00:59:21] <jmkasunich> what about compressed size?
[00:59:32] <cradek> probably half that
[00:59:52] <jmkasunich> I vote for adding it
[01:00:13] <cradek> ok I'll remember, not doing it right now (image is already building)
[01:01:47] <jmkasunich> how different is this build from the standard ubuntu disk?
[01:02:04] <jmkasunich> you had to take something out to make room for emc2, right?
[01:02:25] <cradek> different kernel, emc2 and maybe a couple other packages added
[01:02:34] <cradek> and all their updates
[01:02:38] <jmkasunich> nothing removed?
[01:03:02] <cradek> I removed winders binaries that were also on the CD
[01:03:07] <cradek> firefox etc
[01:03:47] <jmkasunich> why were there doze progs?
[01:03:48] <cradek> pretty sure I didn't remove anything from the linux part
[01:04:04] <cradek> they wanted it to be useful when you stick it in a winders machine I guess
[01:04:21] <cradek> I guess they wanted people to see some free software, even if they're using winders
[01:05:07] <cradek> otherwise, replacing kernel is no net increase, and emc2 is not really very big
[01:05:15] <jmkasunich> good
[01:07:30] <jmkasunich> cool... I think I found my case: http://www.microcenter.com/byos/byos_single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0253819
[01:07:38] <jmkasunich> $45 rebate, and a local store
[01:08:31] <cradek> it's hard to know without a pic, but the antec quiet cases are really good
[01:08:44] <cradek> (not sure if I've worked with that particular one)
[01:09:02] <jmkasunich> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?Image=11-129-018-01.jpg%2c11-129-018-02.jpg%2c11-129-018-03.jpg%2c11-129-018-04.jpg%2c11-129-018-05.jpg%2c11-129-018-06.jpg%2c11-129-018-07.jpg%2c11-129-018-08.jpg%2c11-129-018-09.jpg%2c11-129-018-10.jpg%2c11-129-018-11.jpg%2c11-129-018-12.jpg&CurImage=11-129-018-03.jpg&Depa=0&Description=Antec+Solo+Black%2fSilver+Steel+ATX+Mid+Tower+Computer+Case+-+Retail
[01:09:15] <cradek> nice url
[01:09:18] <jmkasunich> yeah
[01:09:27] <jmkasunich> it has pics tho
[01:09:59] <cradek> I take it back - that's not the one
[01:10:11] <cradek> the one I like has rubber mounting on trays for the drives
[01:10:26] <cradek> and comes with a PS with temp sensing speed control fan
[01:10:30] <jmkasunich> you mean rubber grommets for the screws, or rubber cords?
[01:10:50] <cradek> rubber grommets and special screws that tighten without squishing the grommets
[01:11:13] <cradek> the drive and screws do not touch the case
[01:11:18] <jmkasunich> this one gives you a choice between grommets (and I assume the right screws) or cords
[01:11:26] <cradek> cords?
[01:11:38] <jmkasunich> bungees ;-)
[01:11:47] <cradek> bizarre
[01:11:47] <jmkasunich> "suspension mount" they call it
[01:12:11] <cradek> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?Image=11-129-155-14.jpg%2c11-129-155-15.jpg%2c11-129-155-03.jpg%2c11-129-155-16.jpg%2c11-129-155-05.jpg%2c11-129-155-06.jpg%2c11-129-155-07.jpg%2c11-129-155-13.jpg%2c11-129-155-12.jpg%2c11-129-155-08.jpg%2c11-129-155-09.jpg%2c11-129-155-10.jpg&CurImage=11-129-155-15.jpg&Depa=0&Description=Antec+LifeStyle+SONATA+II+Piano+Black+Steel+ATX+Mid+Tower+Computer+Case+450Watt+SmartPower+2.0+Power+Supply+-
[01:12:17] <cradek> this is the one
[01:12:31] <cradek> it's really nice for the price
[01:12:35] <jmkasunich> I've heard good things about sonata too
[01:12:43] <cradek> the drives go in sideways on those trays
[01:13:00] <cradek> you can barely see the grommets in pic 9
[01:13:18] <jmkasunich> how much?
[01:13:40] <cradek> $70 with PS (after rebate)
[01:13:46] <jmkasunich> oh, very nice
[01:14:02] <jmkasunich> the solo is 50 after rebate, no PS
[01:14:14] <cradek> I recommend you get the sonata
[01:15:11] <jmkasunich> you have one?
[01:15:35] <cradek> no, but I'd get one in a second if buying a case
[01:15:41] <cradek> I have a lot of them at work
[01:15:50] <jmkasunich> you've laid hands on them?
[01:15:52] <jmkasunich> yes...
[01:16:03] <jmkasunich> is there a filter for the main air intake?
[01:16:24] <cradek> no I don't think so
[01:16:45] <cradek> they pipe the CPU heat out the back, instead of into the case, which is kind of nice
[01:16:57] <jmkasunich> thats what the black plastic is about?
[01:17:14] <cradek> yes it's a tunnel thing
[01:17:37] <cradek> (a little hard to get it situated)
[01:17:57] <jmkasunich> this is the same thing, right? http://www.microcenter.com/byos/byos_single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0226775
[01:18:24] <jmkasunich> I won't buy a case without hands in inspection... if uCenter has both, I can check them out
[01:18:32] <cradek> yes that's it
[01:18:38] <jmkasunich> if I want the solo, get it there (rebate) if I want the sonata, newegg
[01:18:42] <cradek> the way the side opens is nice too
[01:19:07] <cradek> oh I just remembered - you can NOT fit a full height 5.25 drive in it
[01:19:20] <jmkasunich> you mean the old 3" high ones?
[01:19:29] <cradek> yeah
[01:19:34] <cradek> (my tape drive is full size)
[01:19:36] <jmkasunich> not gonna be a factor for me ;-)
[01:19:42] <cradek> ok
[01:19:48] <cradek> that's actually a killer for me
[01:19:52] <jmkasunich> I'll have one optical drive, and two SATA hard disks
[01:19:57] <jmkasunich> what do you have that is full height?
[01:20:02] <cradek> DLT
[01:20:04] <jmkasunich> duh, tape
[01:20:12] <jmkasunich> (missed that line)
[01:20:39] <jmkasunich> "cannot period" or "cannot without a saw" ?
[01:21:37] <cradek> looked pretty impossible, the rails weren't right
[01:21:43] <cradek> I forget the details
[01:21:53] <skunkworks> cradek: time for a newer dlt. we have on in the newer server that is cdrom size - dlt
[01:22:14] <cradek> you know how most things have 4 screw holes on each side? the DLT had two, and the rails assumed the "other" two
[01:22:20] <jmkasunich> http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=937&pageID=2397 - view of the solo's drive mounting
[01:22:25] <cradek> skunkworks: wow, that's hard to believe, the tape is almost that thick
[01:22:50] <cradek> jmkasunich: ah! same idea, but not sideways
[01:22:55] <cradek> (I like the sideways a lot)
[01:23:12] <jmkasunich> sideways meaning 1" wide and 3.5" tall?
[01:23:27] <cradek> no
[01:23:29] <jmkasunich> oh, meaning pull them out the side of the case
[01:23:35] <cradek> when you open the side door, you see the drive connectors
[01:23:40] <jmkasunich> right
[01:23:43] <skunkworks> cradek: http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=559168
[01:24:08] <cradek> skunkworks: wow, the reason I don't have one is also right on that page
[01:24:30] <cradek> skunkworks: the model I have goes for like $50 on ebay
[01:24:39] <jmkasunich> "only" $430 after rebate
[01:24:58] <cradek> cheap compared to losing data -- expensive compared to $50
[01:25:23] <jmkasunich> cradek: what do you like about the side mount? wire routing? cooling? just easy to plug and unplug?
[01:25:52] <skunkworks> I Think I have a 40/80 dlt that is a double hight drive. started getting flakey
[01:26:05] <jmkasunich> the silicone grommets: http://www.bjorn3d.com/Material/revimages/case/antec_solo/hd_cage.jpg
[01:26:19] <jmkasunich> I think those are the same in the solo and the sonata
[01:29:17] <cradek> jmkasunich: the sideways is nice because you can see where the cables go to plug them in
[01:29:43] <jmkasunich> is there a sharp bend needed to avoid the cable hitting the side of the case?
[01:30:10] <jmkasunich> probably a non-issue with ribbon, they come out at 90 degrees anyway... but for sata, might be a problem
[01:31:07] <cradek> no, there's easily enough room for sata wires
[01:42:16] <jmkasunich> sonota review: "this case has an easily removable, washable filter up front. It's very easy to remove, but it does pull out of the bottom of the bezel, meaning that you have to tip your case over on its side to get at it."
[01:42:33] <jmkasunich> thats not "easily removable" in my book...
[01:42:50] <jmkasunich> so far thats the only negative thing about the sonata that I've seen
[01:43:18] <cradek> I don't remember the filter, I'll have to look
[01:43:51] <jmkasunich> I bet the plastic front doesn't easily come off (hence the bottom filter change), so you don't see the filter unless you really look for it
[01:46:20] <jmkasunich> lol - talking about the blue LEDs on the sonata: "This will blind your pets"
[01:49:25] <jmkasunich> sonata filter: http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q1/antec-sonata/filter.jpg
[01:49:58] <jmkasunich> the reviewers filter with a couple months of dust: http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q1/antec-sonata/filter-dirty.jpg
[01:50:16] <jmkasunich> the grill on the side (CPU) air intake on my case gets that dirty in a week
[01:50:28] <jmkasunich> 24x7 + basement = I want filters
[01:52:10] <jmkasunich> whats odd is I've now read two sonata reviews, and nobody mentioned the plastic air pipe thingy
[01:54:07] <jmkasunich> ah, now I see
[01:54:17] <jmkasunich> the sonata II is the one with the pipe
[01:54:25] <jmkasunich> (3rd review is a II)
[02:13:48] <jmk-kayak> yay, I can finally use my computer again...
[02:18:21] <cradek> so is it hare-brained schemes, or hair-brained schemes that I have?
[02:19:10] <cradek> http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-hai1.htm
[02:19:11] <cradek> ok, hare
[02:19:12] <jmk-kayak> dunno, tell me the scheme
[02:19:13] <cradek> good to know
[02:19:42] <cradek> take out my perfectly working PII machine and replace it with a PIII machine
[02:20:09] <jmk-kayak> out as in remove from case and build the new in the same case?
[02:20:14] <jmk-kayak> newer anyway
[02:20:17] <cradek> no, out as in set aside
[02:20:35] <jmk-kayak> why not?
[02:20:45] <cradek> the "new" one had latency problems when accessing the hard disk - but it was on a crazy raid controller so I ripped it out and am reinstalling
[02:22:44] <cradek> since I'm using the emc cd, I can run the latency test during the install!
[02:23:07] <jmk-kayak> you mean before the install proper, after you boot the live?
[02:24:04] <jmk-kayak> hey, I just had an idea!
[02:24:04] <cradek> yes
[02:24:11] <cradek> actually while installing
[02:24:20] <jmk-kayak> you know the "install" icon on the desktop when you boot the livecd?
[02:24:22] <cradek> yay, looks like that fixed it
[02:24:25] <cradek> sure
[02:24:33] <jmk-kayak> can you put an icon for the latency test there too?
[02:25:02] <cradek> sure, SMOP
[02:25:05] <jmk-kayak> so joe blow can stick the disk in, let it boot to live, run the test, and say "this computer, works, install" or "this computer sucks"
[02:25:12] <cradek> it might not be obvious, but it's surely possible
[02:25:20] <cradek> yep that would be great
[02:25:32] <cradek> (it's only two shell commands now, but your way would be much nicer)
[02:25:46] <jmk-kayak> whan I say "can you do" something, I mean "is it easy, or a pita"
[02:26:08] <cradek> somewhere between
[02:26:08] <jmk-kayak> it would be even nicer IMO to add it to the boot menu, along with "check disk", "memtest", etc
[02:26:18] <cradek> I'll try it when I work on it next, don't let me forget
[02:26:22] <jmk-kayak> but I bet thats a lot more pita-ey
[02:26:36] <cradek> yeah that's much harder
[02:27:16] <cradek> moral: if something says "smart" on it, remove that part before trying to use realtime
[02:27:27] <jmk-kayak> lol
[02:29:44] <cradek> it has a wild "ethernet + ati video + adaptec scsi" card
[02:30:08] <jmk-kayak> bah...
[02:30:15] <cradek> linux has really arrived when it works on such bizarre hardware without any trouble
[02:30:18] <jmk-kayak> libpth is needed for sim, but not in build-deps
[02:30:32] <cradek> I bet it's in sim's build-deps
[02:30:49] <jmk-kayak> we have sim packages too?
[02:30:53] <cradek> yes
[02:30:57] <cradek> dapper only
[02:31:40] <jmk-kayak> I didn't even know that....
[02:31:59] <cradek> use emc2.1-sim instead of emc2.1
[02:32:21] <jmk-kayak> I used "apt-get install libpth-dev" ;-)
[02:32:50] <jmk-kayak> seems like that was the only thing missing, doing a sim make now
[02:33:07] <cradek> on the new install?
[02:33:35] <jmk-kayak> yeah
[02:33:54] <jmk-kayak> I haven't worked my way around to getting and installing the RT-SMP kernel
[02:34:05] <jmk-kayak> althought duh, I do have the RT UP kernel
[02:34:11] <jmk-kayak> (not running it at the moment tho)
[02:35:51] <petev> jmkasunich, aren't the accel settings in the ini file in user units per second squared?
[02:36:34] <cradek> yes
[02:36:49] <petev> hmm, so why are the settings on the mazak ini file so low?
[02:37:01] <cradek> what are they?
[02:37:07] <petev> 20
[02:37:32] <petev> I calculate 3g continuos with a 500 lbs load for my machine
[02:37:40] <cradek> just conservative I suppose - that machine has only cut a few parts so far
[02:37:57] <jmk-kayak> do you really want to subject a machine to 3G?
[02:37:58] <petev> so that's 9.8 m/sec^2 * 3 * 39
[02:38:07] <petev> not without jerk limit
[02:38:37] <petev> but 20 ips^2 seems really low
[02:38:57] <petev> I would reserve most of the thrust on my machine for cutting
[02:39:19] <jmk-kayak> whats top speed? 5ips (= 300ipm)?
[02:39:32] <petev> on what, the mazak?
[02:39:34] <jmk-kayak> yeah
[02:39:43] <jmk-kayak> you have the ini open, I don't
[02:39:46] <petev> yes
[02:39:55] <jmk-kayak> so zero to full speed in 1/4 second
[02:40:22] <petev> well that can be a long distance when you have short segments
[02:40:36] <petev> it's not like you're rapiding the full table length
[02:40:42] <jmk-kayak> thats not an HSM machine
[02:40:52] <jmk-kayak> its not like you're cutting at 300 ipm either
[02:40:57] <petev> yeah, I think it's box ways
[02:41:02] <jmk-kayak> it is
[02:41:45] <jmk-kayak> 4000 RPM max spinde, 4 flutes, 0.005 chip load per flute = 80 ipm
[02:42:13] <petev> true, but I was thinking more contour following at speed that straight line
[02:42:14] <jmk-kayak> I just pulled the 0.005 out of my rear, but it seems reasonable or even high (for small cutters)
[02:43:57] <petev> cradek, you have an A axis?
[02:44:08] <jmk-kayak> at 60 ipm cutting speed and 20 ipss accel, you can make a 0.010 radius turn without slowing down (if I did the math right)
[02:45:26] <jmk-kayak> this is sad: the compile time for sim on this box is 7:11 real 6:18 user 0:43 system.... with the VMs running, my main box isn't any faster
[02:47:12] <petev> what settings does emc use on an angular axis?
[02:47:35] <petev> is the velocity and accel angular?
[02:48:36] <jmk-kayak> the units are chosen in the inifile
[02:48:48] <jmk-kayak> I think the sample configs use degrees
[02:48:59] <jmk-kayak> you could use radians if you wanted ;-)
[02:49:00] <petev> yes, but is it angular velocity and accel?
[02:49:10] <jmk-kayak> for a rotary axis? yes
[02:49:18] <jmk-kayak> linear doesn't make sense on a rotary axis
[02:49:25] <petev> or does it calc surface velocity at cutting tip?
[02:49:34] <jmk-kayak> it can't
[02:49:39] <petev> I have it at angular
[02:49:52] <jmk-kayak> it doesn't know the distance from tooltip to rotary axis centerline
[02:49:59] <petev> true
[02:50:46] <petev> I have to figure out what the gearing is on my rotary, I think I'll leave it for later as I have to make a pulley for it anyhow
[02:51:28] <jmk-kayak> cradek: this is a stupid question, but what is abort in axis?
[02:51:38] <jmk-kayak> the pause? the stop?
[02:51:52] <petev> I heard that mach uses surface velocity, you think it assumes the rotary axis center is at Z=0?
[02:51:56] <cradek> escape
[02:52:00] <jmk-kayak> petev: no idea
[02:52:04] <cradek> or, the stop button (square)
[02:52:12] <jmk-kayak> thanks
[02:52:22] <jmk-kayak> well sim works (no surprise there)
[02:52:40] <petev> I thought you had your machine running already for a minute there ;-)
[02:52:43] <jmk-kayak> where is that rtsmp kernel?
[02:52:48] <jmk-kayak> heh, right...
[02:53:01] <cradek> linuxcnc.org/experimental
[02:53:12] <cradek> yay, my 'new' box is working too
[02:53:33] <jmk-kayak> do I add that path to sources.list and then apt-get install them?
[02:53:44] <cradek> just download them and dpkg -i [files]
[02:55:08] <petev> what was that I saw in the mazak about enabling adaptive feed?
[02:55:17] <petev> there was some g-code to do it
[02:55:23] <cradek> yep
[02:55:23] <petev> is it not enabled by default?
[02:55:27] <cradek> nope
[02:55:43] <petev> so the pin on motion does nothing without executing that g-code first?
[02:55:49] <cradek> right
[02:55:56] <jmkasunich> its just a single g-code (m code actually I think)
[02:55:58] <petev> hmm, why is it that way?
[02:56:26] <cradek> because you only want some of your EDM cuts to be adaptive, and that's all we had in mind when we put it in
[02:56:29] <jmkasunich> the default pin value is zero, and zero adaptive feed = machine ain't movin
[02:56:53] <jmkasunich> you can put the enable g-code in the "initial g-codes" section of the inifile to make it enabled on startup
[02:56:56] <cradek> I think it's 1
[02:56:58] <petev> but that lets the op turn it off, and that could be bad if you use it for other things
[02:57:03] <petev> why not default it to 1 ?
[02:57:19] <cradek> (I think it is)
[02:57:23] <jmkasunich> not sure about that
[02:57:40] <petev> I was planning to use it for spindle, tool change, and to limit speed when limit override is pressed
[02:57:49] <petev> I don't want to be able to disable that in g-code
[02:57:49] <jmkasunich> for every case where an operator turning it off could bite you in the ass, theres a case where having it on unexpectedly could bite you too
[02:57:58] <jmkasunich> we can't make everybody happy
[02:58:16] <petev> seems like a low level motion thing, not a g-code thing
[02:58:29] <petev> I don't see any other feed overrides in motion
[02:58:35] <petev> maybe I missed someting
[02:58:42] <jmkasunich> the EMC boys need to be able to distinguish between moving to the right place moves, and cutting moves
[02:58:55] <jmkasunich> only the latter use closed loop control of feed based on arc voltage
[02:59:02] <jmkasunich> which is what adaptive feed was originally for
[02:59:22] <petev> I think it would also be nice to have separate overrides for feed/rapid
[02:59:25] <jmkasunich> there is also feedhold (but that can be disabled in g-code too I think)
[02:59:34] <petev> most all modern controls have this
[02:59:53] <petev> feedhold was a bit if I remember right
[02:59:57] <jmkasunich> that comes up every so often... and it results in a argument that I'm not willing to have today
[03:00:01] <jmkasunich> yes, a bit
[03:00:24] <petev> why not have both, and you can tie them together in the gui if you like
[03:03:30] <cradek> RTH| lat min| ovl min| lat avg| lat max| ovl max| overruns
[03:03:31] <cradek> RTD| -1010| -1030| -125| 6068| 13155| 0
[03:03:41] <cradek> ^^ 2x p3-800
[03:04:00] <jmkasunich> not bad at all
[03:04:14] <cradek> yeah, that's without cpu isolation
[03:04:27] <petev> what are the units?
[03:04:32] <cradek> nsec
[03:08:13] <jmk-kayak> so, you're really not gonna need my dual P3 box at the fest, are you?
[03:08:24] <cradek> nope
[03:08:46] <cradek> today it looks like I'll probably bring this one
[03:09:15] <cradek> but if we're going to recommend emc/smp we both ought to play with it
[03:09:19] <cradek> so I'm glad you have one
[03:09:59] <jmk-kayak> where that train of thought was going is....
[03:10:05] <jmk-kayak> that's a nice case ;-)
[03:10:06] <jmk-kayak> http://images.ciao.com/ide/images/products/normal/414/HP_Kayak_XM600__1219414.jpg
[03:10:15] <jmk-kayak> I need a case...
[03:10:53] <jmk-kayak> its probably not as quiet as a sonata, but its not bad
[03:11:53] <cradek> if you part it out for the case, please don't tell me...
[03:12:13] <jmk-kayak> that would mean either no longer having the 2xP3 system, or finding another case for it (I probably have something around here that it could go in, that would be too noisy to run all the time)
[03:12:41] <jmk-kayak> like the gateway tower with the 1xP2 in it....
[03:13:04] <jmk-kayak> or the 7" high rackmount with the really loud fan
[03:13:38] <cradek> the PS will not work with your new board
[03:13:47] <jmk-kayak> I know
[03:14:09] <jmk-kayak> I'll need a new ps regardless.. but if I can avoid buying a new case, thats 20 lbs less waste in the world
[03:15:27] <jmk-kayak> within 6 feet of me I have 2.5 systems that I don't use (the 2xP3 is 0.5, since I'm using it today)
[03:16:05] <cradek> I have 1.5 now (1.5 because it's the size of a bus)
[03:16:12] <jmk-kayak> lol
[03:16:20] <jmk-kayak> thats all? or just all within 6ft?
[03:16:31] <cradek> 6ft
[03:16:41] <cradek> it surely depends how you count - what constitutes a computer?
[03:17:06] <skunkworks> our novell server is a duel p2 600? I think that I put in an old compaq double wide case. used to have a 486 something in it.
[03:17:09] <jmk-kayak> something that if you turned it on would probably work
[03:17:18] <jmk-kayak> empty cases don't count
[03:17:26] <jmk-kayak> parts machines don't count
[03:17:37] <cradek> maybe just this 1.5 then
[03:17:52] <cradek> but probably a few old crap laptops too
[03:17:52] <jmk-kayak> I have the 7" high rackmount, with I think a P3-600 in it, runs win95
[03:18:06] <jmk-kayak> haven't used it in quite a while, I use a VM for easycad now
[03:18:16] <jmk-kayak> thats right by my mouse hand, under the main system
[03:18:22] <jmk-kayak> its horribly loud
[03:18:47] <jmk-kayak> then an old gateway P2 tower, I think somebody from my wife's church asked her to get rid of it
[03:19:02] <jmk-kayak> I really only saved it thinking I might use the case, but I bet its loud too
[03:19:15] <jmk-kayak> and then there's the XM600 2xP3-666
[03:19:49] <jmk-kayak> I have another 7" high rackmount case (empty) but its beyond 6 ft
[03:20:10] <skunkworks> one of the other file servers I can't bring myself to get rid of is behind the chair to the left. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/desk1.jpg
[03:20:37] <jmk-kayak> ah, a mini-fridge
[03:20:46] <jmk-kayak> aka end-table
[03:20:51] <skunkworks> need any floppy drives ;)
[03:21:13] <skunkworks> I spy...
[03:21:16] <jmk-kayak> whats on the right side? are those hotswap drives?
[03:21:20] <skunkworks> yes
[03:21:41] <skunkworks> used to have a bunch of 9gig scsi drives in a raid 5 config
[03:21:50] <jmk-kayak> ah
[03:22:04] <jmk-kayak> I have some similar stuff, 18G even..... ;-)
[03:22:29] <jmk-kayak> I'd like to get a hot-swap carrier for a fat SATA drive, and use it for backup
[03:23:04] <jmk-kayak> you can get commodity drives at $80 for 200G or more
[03:23:17] <jmk-kayak> have two, one in the safe, one in the PC, and swap weekly
[03:23:20] <skunkworks> I must have always bought cheap hot swap trays - I have not had very good luck with them. (drives dropping out for no reason and such)
[03:23:43] <jmk-kayak> the ones I have are nice, from HP servers
[03:23:52] <jmk-kayak> but they won't work for sata (or even IDE)
[03:23:59] <jmk-kayak> and I'm NOT going SCSI
[03:24:15] <skunkworks> Recently I just mount the drives internally figuring I will just have to pop the case off and power down to swap them.
[03:24:28] <skunkworks> we don't work all weekend ;)
[03:24:34] <jmk-kayak> I want to back up a box that I don't turn off
[03:25:00] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/desk.jpg
[03:25:03] <jmk-kayak> and ideally the backup drive will be physically separated from the computer, even if only by 20 feet
[03:25:22] <jmk-kayak> looks like my bench
[03:25:43] <skunkworks> it is a bit cleaner now.. but not by much
[03:27:10] <skunkworks> going to have the fest-cam back up?
[03:27:18] <jmk-kayak> I dunno
[03:27:31] <jmk-kayak> plugging it into my main system puts it in a bad place
[03:27:36] <jmk-kayak> I'd like to cover the main room
[03:27:50] <jmk-kayak> I'm assuming we'll be located like last year
[03:30:15] <skunkworks> hmm - central air seems to work at the new house.. :)
[03:31:07] <jmk-kayak> can you guys see http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/ ?
[03:31:45] <skunkworks> nothing to see here...
[03:32:08] <jmkasunich> I see even less from a machine on my internal net
[03:32:08] <skunkworks> goes to your blog ok
[03:32:14] <jmkasunich> thanks
[03:33:06] <jmk-kayak> from kayak I can ping it but firefox won't view it
[03:34:04] <jmk-kayak> duh, internal dns issue
[03:34:34] <jmk-kayak> that URL resolves to the internet side port of my router, which forwards incoming traffic to the actual server at 192.168.....
[03:34:54] <jmk-kayak> kayak doesn't access the router from the outside, hence no forward
[03:35:03] <jmk-kayak> if I use the 192 addy it works
[03:35:55] <jmk-kayak> now I've forgotten why I wanted to access that anyway
[03:36:06] <jmk-kayak> oh, messy bench pic...
[03:36:11] <skunkworks> :)
[03:36:21] <jmk-kayak> ok, back to work... rebooting to SMP RT kernel!
[03:36:28] <jmk-kayak> (cross fingers)
[03:38:33] <jmkasunich> cradek: does this kernel say "will now halt" instead of "power down" when its all done shutting down?
[03:38:50] <cradek> no clue
[03:39:11] <skunkworks> I am pretty sure my dapper says - 'will now halt'
[03:39:12] <cradek> but I'm sure I've seen that message before
[03:39:23] <jmkasunich> oops, its not even your kernel, I'm shutting down the dapper 686-smp one
[03:40:13] <jmkasunich> the breezy vms and older say "power down", thats what had me confused
[03:40:22] <jmkasunich> wanted to make sure I didn't reset it too soon
[03:40:35] <skunkworks> you guys are working on a dual proccessor kernel for emc?
[03:40:43] <cradek> yes
[03:40:49] <petev> have you guys looked at Ingo Molnar's RT kernel patch and Xenomai?
[03:40:58] <cradek> no
[03:41:15] <petev> looks like the patch is being integrated into the latest kernel releases
[03:41:35] <petev> and the Xenomia API provides a portable layer to many RT kernel emulations
[03:41:51] <petev> I have heard pretty good IRQ latency times for the patch
[03:42:01] <petev> it might be possible to run stuff in user space
[03:42:29] <petev> it makes the kernel preemptable and makes the critical regions very short
[03:45:57] <jmk-kayak> so far so good, building for RT now
[03:47:32] <jmkasunich> we may at some point want an rtapi wrapper for that
[03:47:59] <jmkasunich> although there are other issues with user space, like access to I/O ports
[03:48:07] <jmkasunich> I guess we could make drivers setuid
[03:48:24] <petev> yeah, that's a bit ugly
[03:48:34] <jmkasunich> having EMC
[03:48:36] <petev> I think we would need real drivers with ioctl, devfs, etc.
[03:48:36] <jmkasunich> oops
[03:48:45] <jmkasunich> having EMC's code in kernel space isn't pretty either
[03:48:53] <petev> true
[03:48:57] <jmkasunich> I disagree - "real" drivers are for linux, not for control
[03:49:04] <petev> why?
[03:49:09] <jmkasunich> the idea of /dev/m5i20 makes my stomach turn
[03:49:27] <petev> if the interface is good, I don't see an issue
[03:49:30] <jmkasunich> I like to think of EMC's motion control/realtime code as an embedded application that happens to run on a PC
[03:49:45] <jmkasunich> the code is MUCH closer to the hardware than any normal linux driver
[03:49:54] <petev> well then it shouldn't require linux ;-)
[03:50:06] <jmkasunich> linux is the bootloader ;-)
[03:50:09] <cradek> linux makes a great network stack and gui
[03:50:14] <jmkasunich> right
[03:50:25] <petev> I'm not sure about that, video and audio stuff is much higher bandwidth than motion control
[03:50:49] <cradek> my pragmatic side says there would have to be an advantage to such an invasive rewrite
[03:51:03] <jmkasunich> I'm not saying that its not possible to do, I'm saying that the linux programming model is a lot more complex than what we use now
[03:51:15] <jmkasunich> and that complexity buys an EMC style application nothing
[03:51:18] <cradek> just because one can doesn't mean one should
[03:51:27] <petev> I think geting things in user space and not requiring a RT kernel and having normal drivers would be a huge improvement
[03:51:42] <jmkasunich> yes, yes, no ;-)
[03:52:14] <petev> normal drivers could leverage all of the normal kernel features
[03:52:23] <jmk-kayak> which are?
[03:52:40] <petev> services of other drivers, devfs, procfs, etc.
[03:52:56] <jmk-kayak> to what benefit?
[03:52:58] <petev> and all of the linux kernel features, of course
[03:53:27] <petev> the shared mem is dangerous with meta data in it, and module load/unload seems a bit unstable
[03:53:48] <jmk-kayak> WARNING: /home/jmkasunich/emcdev/emc2head/src/trivkins: 'kinematicsForward' exported twice. Previous export was in /home/jmkasunich/emcdev/emc2head/src/genhexkins.ko
[03:53:55] <jmk-kayak> I haven't seen that warning before
[03:53:57] <cradek> I'm getting those too
[03:54:04] <jmk-kayak> new on this kernel?
[03:54:05] <cradek> the warning is right, fwiw
[03:54:08] <cradek> yes
[03:54:14] <cradek> kbuild change I guess
[03:54:38] <jmk-kayak> I know its right, we load one and only one of those modules to provide the exported functionaity
[03:54:44] <cradek> yep
[03:55:02] <cradek> I think I get the FE less often on this machine
[03:55:10] <cradek> 1/10th of the time maybe
[03:55:18] <jmk-kayak> what config were you running when you had the abort nans?
[03:55:22] <cradek> max
[03:56:15] <cradek> sim/axis does it too
[03:56:35] <jmk-kayak> wouldn;t start
[03:56:44] <jmk-kayak> Can't write to /dev/rtai_shm - aborting
[03:56:45] <jmk-kayak> Realtime system did not load
[03:57:09] <jmk-kayak> scripts/realtime start fails
[03:57:10] <cradek> $ cat /etc/udev/rules.d/emc2.rules
[03:57:10] <cradek> KERNEL=="RTAI_SHM" SYMLINK=="rtai_shm" MODE="0666"
[03:58:24] <jmk-kayak> grrr
[03:58:38] <jmk-kayak> sudo echo >foo isn't root when it writes to foo
[03:58:46] <cradek> nope
[04:00:49] <jmk-kayak> dat's mo' better
[04:01:18] <jmk-kayak> well, a little
[04:01:38] <jmk-kayak> darned kernel parport
[04:01:51] <cradek> ?
[04:02:00] <cradek> oh right
[04:02:13] <jmk-kayak> jmkasunich@kayak:~/emcdev/emc2head$ lsmod | grep parport
[04:02:14] <jmk-kayak> parport_pc 33264 1
[04:02:13] <jmk-kayak> parport 34248 3 ppdev,lp,parport_pc
[04:02:17] <cradek> $ cat /etc/modprobe.d/emc2
[04:02:17] <cradek> install parport_pc /bin/true
[04:02:28] <cradek> or use sim/axis
[04:03:48] <cradek> I must have a heat problem - the machine turned off during a compile
[04:03:55] <jmk-kayak> oops
[04:04:11] <cradek> then when it boots, it helpfully says "A Critical Error occurred prior to this power-up"
[04:04:23] <cradek> ... not what it WAS of course
[04:04:31] <cradek> only that it was "Critical"
[04:04:31] <jmk-kayak> of course
[04:04:40] <jmk-kayak> what says that, bios?
[04:04:43] <cradek> yes
[04:04:59] <jmk-kayak> "so critical that I was running around screaming, and forgot to write it down"
[04:05:01] <cradek> probably had some diagnostics installed in the original OS
[04:05:09] <cradek> whatever that was, years ago
[04:05:37] <jmk-kayak> I think I'll need to reboot to make parport_pc go away
[04:05:52] <jmk-kayak> parport_pc 33264 1
[04:05:58] <cradek> and I have to get to bed
[04:06:01] <jmk-kayak> non-zero user count, but no name
[04:06:04] <cradek> try killing lpd?
[04:06:17] <cradek> err cupsd
[04:07:11] <jmk-kayak> killed it, parport-pc still has one user
[04:07:20] <jmk-kayak> I'll either mess with sim, or go to be and boot tomorrow
[04:07:21] <cradek> darn
[04:07:32] <cradek> ok, well goodnight
[04:07:53] <jmk-kayak> with the "install parport_pc /bin/true" line, that shouldn't happen again, right?
[04:08:00] <cradek> right
[04:08:16] <jmk-kayak> I think I'm going to sleep, reboot tomorrow and start fresh
[04:08:27] <jmk-kayak> if I get into it now, who knows how late I'll be up
[04:08:40] <cradek> hahaha
[04:08:54] <cradek> position.txt saved my three nans, and it reloads that position
[04:09:03] <jmk-kayak> lol
[04:09:32] <cradek> that's great :-)
[04:09:41] <cradek> ok goodnight
[04:09:51] <jmk-kayak> trying sim, just to see
[04:10:23] <jmk-kayak> you just told it to run the splash, right?
[04:10:49] <jmk-kayak> I've hit esc 4 times about as it finishes the 'E', no funnies
[04:11:08] <jmk-kayak> ah, got it this time
[04:11:31] <jmk-kayak> I waited until it was in the 'M', doubt that had anything to do with it
[04:12:07] <jmk-kayak> I waited until it was in the 'M', doubt that had anything to do with it
[04:12:09] <jmk-kayak> ops
[04:12:35] <petev> is it running really slowly?
[04:12:44] <jmk-kayak> no
[04:16:14] <jmk-kayak> cradek: it happens here, maybe once out of every 2-5 aborts
[04:16:21] <jmk-kayak> I'll investigate more tomorrow
[04:16:35] <jmk-kayak> goodnight all
[04:16:46] <petev> gn
[13:12:48] <alex_joni> cradek: fixed the usplash thing?
[13:13:15] <alex_joni> there was/is a bug in the dapper make-kpkg which forgets to include vesafb into the initrd, which causes the missing usplash
[13:13:40] <alex_joni> and the fix on my page is supposed to work around that, by including the vesafb if it exists.
[13:34:33] <cradek> thanks, I saw your fix but I haven't done it yet
[13:35:22] <cradek> CONFIG_FB_VESA=y
[13:35:43] <cradek> interesting - I built vesafb into the kernel
[13:45:42] <cradek> wonder if it has dependencies that I didn't build in
[14:17:06] <cradek> alex_joni: in this kernel, FB_VESA can't be a module
[14:17:27] <cradek> but I found another page that says what you do: on ubuntu it must be a module to work
[15:47:59] <cradek> ouch, stuart is going to have jogging by wireless joypad, hope he has his limits set right
[17:12:12] <alex_joni> oh.. cool :D
[17:12:49] <alex_joni> cradek: ok, then it's probably different for the 2.6.15
[17:13:11] <cradek> I hacked it into working (took the vesafb module stuff from 2.6.15-magma
[17:13:14] <cradek> )
[17:13:24] <cradek> new packages at the same url...
[17:14:09] <alex_joni> so you have vesafb as a module now?
[17:14:39] <cradek> yes
[17:14:49] <alex_joni> sounds like quite a bit of hack to me :D
[17:14:59] <cradek> yep
[17:15:12] <cradek> I bet it's a ubuntu hack
[17:15:26] <cradek> (since I didn't start from their kernel, I don't have their hacks)
[17:15:29] <alex_joni> yeah.. well I can tell you what the "official
[17:15:34] <alex_joni> " way to do it is..
[17:15:39] <alex_joni> but it won't be nice :D
[17:15:56] <alex_joni> apt-get source linux-source-...
[17:16:14] <alex_joni> that's a whole lot different from apt-get install linux-source
[17:16:31] <cradek> yeah there's a lot of ways to get (different) source packages
[17:16:34] <cradek> for the kernel
[17:16:36] <cradek> it's crazy
[17:16:45] <alex_joni> apt-get source gets you everything
[17:17:03] <alex_joni> it's a huge debian folder which allows you to build _all_ packages
[17:17:09] <alex_joni> i386, ppmc, sparc, arm, etc
[17:17:18] <alex_joni> with 3 debs / arch
[17:17:23] <cradek> hmm maybe some other time :-P
[17:17:28] <alex_joni> I tried it once..
[17:17:35] <alex_joni> gave up after 3 days of compiling
[17:17:46] <alex_joni> they actually have a clean source
[17:17:54] <alex_joni> and a folder full of patches
[17:18:02] <alex_joni> which get added during the build process
[17:18:14] <cradek> nice
[17:18:20] <alex_joni> errrm. yeah
[17:18:33] <alex_joni> except that for breezy (when I tried) there were about 200 of them
[17:19:04] <alex_joni> so adding a couple more (rtai and whatever) will most likely get you where something fails..
[17:19:22] <cradek> hey do you have a windows machine with a floppy drive around?
[17:19:29] <alex_joni> errm.. no
[17:19:33] <cradek> darn
[17:19:36] <alex_joni> or wait.. I have an USB floppy
[17:19:41] <alex_joni> so, yes
[17:19:42] <cradek> is it handy?
[17:19:46] <alex_joni> yeah\
[17:19:50] <cradek> http://h18004.www1.hp.com/support/files/server/us/download/18396.html
[17:20:08] <cradek> would you please do this stupid process and send me a raw floppy image?
[17:20:24] <alex_joni> sure
[17:20:31] <alex_joni> (just hope I have a floppy around)
[17:20:34] <cradek> yay thank you
[17:20:40] <cradek> heh, that's a problem I'll have to
[17:20:43] <cradek> too
[17:20:50] <alex_joni> found the drive..
[17:24:17] <alex_joni> ok, it's writing to floppy now
[17:24:28] <alex_joni> do you have the incantation for dd handy?
[17:24:31] <cradek> cool
[17:24:40] <cradek> dd if=/dev/fd0 of=filename bs=1k
[17:24:48] <cradek> should say 1440+0 at the end
[17:25:38] <cradek> cool, I think I fixed the problem with my machine turning off when it's busy: heat sink grease
[17:25:45] <alex_joni> nice
[17:27:52] <alex_joni> hmm.. my vmware ubuntu doesn't have access to the floppy
[17:28:08] <cradek> oh no
[17:28:18] <alex_joni> but I found some shareware for doze
[17:28:27] <alex_joni> for floppy -> image
[17:28:41] <cradek> http://www.pamarsystems.com/raw.html
[17:28:50] <cradek> ah you were faster
[17:29:46] <alex_joni> if it doesn't work, I'll fire up my other ubuntu box
[17:31:21] <cradek> I'll start looking for a floppy :-)
[17:32:29] <cradek> OS/2 2.1 video drivers ... perfect
[17:32:57] <alex_joni> lol
[17:33:03] <alex_joni> I used a network card driver disk
[17:33:24] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/cradek/
[17:33:33] <cradek> thank you!
[17:33:34] <alex_joni> let me know if it works
[17:35:10] <cradek> it's the right size - always a good sign
[17:35:12] <skunkworks> does the kernal actally use both proccessors when emc is running?
[17:35:25] <alex_joni> skunkworks: yeah..
[17:35:28] <cradek> skunkworks: yes, the realtime stuff is on only one, leaving the other free for AXIS
[17:35:34] <cradek> it makes a big difference here
[17:35:42] <skunkworks> Holy crap - that is cool
[17:35:49] <skunkworks> Nice
[17:35:59] <cradek> except emc doesn't work right :-)
[17:36:14] <skunkworks> I am sure you guys will get it :)
[17:36:17] <cradek> just a little bug I'm sure
[17:36:18] <cradek> yeah
[17:37:23] <cradek> ok I didn't fix the machine...
[17:37:24] <cradek> * cradek sighs
[17:37:27] <skunkworks> I have about 4 dual pentium II/III motherboards that could be used.
[17:37:39] <alex_joni> cradek: did the floppy work?
[17:37:54] <cradek> don't know yet - the machine turned off while writing it
[17:38:06] <alex_joni> eek
[17:38:13] <skunkworks> yeck. Maybe a bad cpu?
[17:38:16] <cradek> I hope it will tell me why
[17:38:28] <cradek> "A critical error occurred prior to this power-up"
[17:38:41] <cradek> this is all it says, maybe these diagnostics read an error log
[17:39:57] <cradek> skunkworks: it turns off when very busy, so I suspect heat
[17:41:27] <alex_joni> cradek: I just generated one on the ubuntu box, and uploaded it to the same location
[17:41:40] <cradek> are they different?
[17:42:00] <cradek> arg, now I have floppy errors
[17:42:05] <alex_joni> md5sum matches
[17:42:13] <alex_joni> 3d86193ece4f6ca93b98b821ef497afa image.IMA
[17:42:13] <alex_joni> 3d86193ece4f6ca93b98b821ef497afa image.linux
[17:42:18] <cradek> good
[17:42:19] <cradek> thanks
[17:42:34] <alex_joni> guess the doze crap works afterall
[17:42:47] <alex_joni> * alex_joni uninstalls it
[17:43:06] <cradek> sorry about the spyware that probably came with it
[17:43:14] <alex_joni> don't think so..
[17:43:23] <alex_joni> my security suite is pretty ok
[17:43:38] <cradek> (kidding)
[17:43:48] <alex_joni> well.. you're mostly correct
[17:43:51] <alex_joni> unfortunately
[17:45:52] <skunkworks> So - will there be 2 different live cd's in the future then? one for single and one for multible?
[17:46:15] <cradek> skunkworks: my hope is that there will only be one, but it will use several processors if you have them
[17:46:22] <skunkworks> Nice
[17:46:23] <alex_joni> skunkworks: we'll need to see how well this works first
[17:46:32] <skunkworks> No pressure ;)
[17:46:45] <alex_joni> cradek: do you know when the new LTS will be out?
[17:46:48] <cradek> yeah lots of work to do
[17:46:52] <cradek> alex_joni: no I haven't heard
[17:47:00] <alex_joni> I heard feisty is really good
[17:47:22] <alex_joni> dapper-like quality
[17:47:26] <alex_joni> edgy was worse
[17:48:55] <cradek> I still like dapper...
[17:50:01] <cradek> hm, the floppy works, but I don't think it's what I want (error log viewer)
[17:50:30] <alex_joni> too bad :(
[17:50:40] <alex_joni> if you find any other let me know..
[17:52:01] <cradek> thanks
[17:59:32] <skunkworks> cradek: what is the motherboard?
[17:59:47] <cradek> it's a huge compaq proliant server
[18:00:10] <skunkworks> so it has ton of diagnostics in the bios?
[18:00:52] <skunkworks> hmm - is compaq still doing the hardrive partition for its bios utllities?
[18:00:52] <cradek> well you'd think so, but it looks like it's mostly run from inside windows
[18:01:21] <skunkworks> * skunkworks always though that was a pain.
[18:01:32] <cradek> I didn't see any sign of a diagnostic partition, but it's possible there was one
[18:01:40] <cradek> I think the disks were wiped before I got it thought
[18:01:41] <cradek> though
[18:04:12] <skunkworks> yah - I suppose you went to compaq's site to get the utilities?
[18:04:41] <alex_joni> the fact that it's HP nowadays doesn't really help either
[18:04:45] <cradek> well the biggest problem is I don't have windows
[18:04:52] <cradek> alex_joni: http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/files/server/us/download/7513.html
[18:05:12] <cradek> google says this one might help...
[18:07:25] <alex_joni> grr.. these people should learn about quickformat
[18:11:26] <alex_joni> cradek: done
[18:11:31] <cradek> thanks!
[18:17:09] <alex_joni> cradek: any luck?
[18:17:51] <cradek> more floppy errors - found another one
[18:18:03] <cradek> * cradek is transported back to the bad old days
[18:18:14] <alex_joni> heh.. sure sounds like it
[18:20:02] <cradek> ok, booting it now
[18:21:27] <cradek> The BIOS32 Service to call the Event Log is not Present. ***EXITING***
[18:21:38] <cradek> arg
[18:22:10] <alex_joni> yuck.. different mobo?
[18:24:03] <cradek> they called about 10 different machines "ML350"
[18:24:27] <alex_joni> sweet :/
[18:24:40] <alex_joni> ok, think I found a small makefile bug
[18:24:48] <alex_joni> s/makefile/buildsystem/
[18:25:02] <cradek> uh-oh
[18:25:06] <alex_joni> when changing from non-rip to rip it doesn't properly rebuild the libraries
[18:25:15] <alex_joni> so one has to make clean and make for it to work
[18:25:23] <alex_joni> (which he should do in the first place anyways)
[18:25:29] <alex_joni> that's why I said small :)
[18:26:04] <alex_joni> hmm.. I love that my laptop has 3 buttons next to the touchpad
[18:26:42] <alex_joni> makes it easy to rotate in AXIS :)
[18:35:34] <alex_joni> cradek: got my mail?
[18:38:48] <cradek> yes, that's great
[23:37:05] <cradek> jmk-kayak: around tonight?
[23:45:09] <jmkasunich> who me?
[23:45:20] <jmkasunich> just finished dinner
[23:45:32] <cradek> welcome
[23:45:48] <cradek> I'm ready to try to start debugging this
[23:45:53] <jmkasunich> ah...
[23:46:04] <cradek> my new machine never worked right, and I finally fried a part on it, so I put the old reliable one back!
[23:46:13] <jmkasunich> what did you fry?
[23:46:36] <cradek> the power regulator for one of the processors
[23:46:41] <cradek> it's a little plug-in board
[23:46:46] <jmk-kayak> bzzzt
[23:46:51] <cradek> yep
[23:47:27] <cradek> I have six of them - two worked until I screwed up, now one does
[23:47:45] <cradek> unfortunately 1 < the number I need for smp
[23:47:50] <jmk-kayak> yeah
[23:48:06] <jmk-kayak> I should bring you my 3.5" high smp machine
[23:48:40] <jmk-kayak> its very wide and deep - you could put legs on it and use it as a table for max
[23:49:02] <cradek> let's see what I can come up with by june... my "source" says he's getting another load of stuff from a big corporation soon, there may be server junk they can't use in there
[23:49:15] <cradek> haha a table
[23:49:22] <cradek> I bet you're even serious
[23:49:25] <cradek> I've seen some of that rack stuff
[23:49:35] <jmk-kayak> its about 24" deep
[23:49:46] <jmk-kayak> and 17" wide
[23:49:54] <jmk-kayak> nicely made - HP stuff
[23:50:20] <jmk-kayak> server grade stuff is cool - I wish the hotplug hardware I have worked with SATA
[23:50:52] <cradek> this one is 17x26x9
[23:51:01] <jmk-kayak> tower?
[23:51:02] <cradek> sounds the same except thinner
[23:51:13] <cradek> no, the long way is depth
[23:51:14] <jmk-kayak> oh, rack?
[23:51:21] <jmk-kayak> must be a hernia to pick it up
[23:51:24] <cradek> no, I'm not sure what you call it
[23:51:29] <cradek> 'footstool'
[23:51:45] <cradek> 'obelisk'
[23:51:53] <jmk-kayak> made to mount in rack tho? 9" is height, 17 is width?
[23:52:39] <jmk-kayak> where does ubuntu keep their darned menu items?
[23:52:49] <cradek> no, I don't see how you could get rails on it
[23:52:54] <cradek> /boot/grub/menu.lst
[23:53:08] <jmk-kayak> I added kate to this box so I could start editing code, and want to add it to the applications menu
[23:53:16] <cradek> ah good luck
[23:53:25] <jmk-kayak> silly man, I know where grub's menu is, its the GUI shit I don't know
[23:53:28] <cradek> add an icon to the panel instead
[23:53:38] <skunkworks> cradek: I may have one of those regulators out of a proliant server at work. I will have to check though. (it was a dual proccessor machine but we never put in the second one)
[23:53:44] <cradek> rightclick / add to panel / custom launcher / ...
[23:54:00] <cradek> skunkworks: is it a p3?
[23:54:09] <skunkworks> I would have to look.
[23:54:17] <cradek> skunkworks: that would be really cool, thanks
[23:54:42] <cradek> I can paypal shipping if you can spare it
[23:55:10] <skunkworks> not a problem. I don't remember what series it was.
[23:55:21] <skunkworks> find out tomorrow
[23:55:29] <jmk-kayak> is this an HP machine?
[23:55:42] <jmk-kayak> I have a couple spare regulators for the 3,5" jobbie
[23:55:51] <cradek> it says compaq on it, but HP has taken over the line
[23:55:59] <cradek> I think they're all the same (for P3s)
[23:56:10] <jmk-kayak> "Deschutes VRM 8.3 2.5V adj out" on the back
[23:56:11] <cradek> Ppros had a similar thing but I'm not brave enough to assume it's the same
[23:56:23] <jmk-kayak> HP P/N 0950-3389
[23:56:36] <cradek> hmm, these only have compaq part numbers, no english text except "12v or 5v in"
[23:56:46] <cradek> the processors are 1.7v though
[23:56:56] <jmk-kayak> this one says 5V in
[23:57:07] <jmk-kayak> it fed a P3-600 or maybe a P3-450
[23:57:12] <jmk-kayak> your's are faster aren't they?
[23:57:12] <cradek> I don't know enough to say whether they're compatible
[23:57:17] <cradek> yes 800
[23:57:34] <jmk-kayak> well, I'm gonna bring the 3.5 box(es) to fest, and I'll bring these too
[23:57:37] <cradek> but the whole family is 1.65 and 1.7v I think
[23:57:48] <cradek> ok cool
[23:57:59] <jmk-kayak> I have 2 of the 3.5" chassis, one is a parts unit, it had a bad mobo
[23:58:17] <jmk-kayak> I'm about 95% sure the other one already has ubuntu installed on it
[23:58:52] <jmk-kayak> (I know I installed it on one of my SMP machines, I thought it was the kayak but found out differently yesterday, so it must have been the 3.5" one
[23:59:00] <cradek> it would be fun to play with cpu isolation and see what step rates we can get on a tuned machine
[23:59:04] <jmk-kayak> 768M of ram IIRC
[23:59:20] <jmk-kayak> I don't think it has a parport tho ;-(
[23:59:23] <cradek> the fast thread is very predictable - it should be possible to run it almost all the time