#emc-devel | Logs for 2007-04-09

[00:05:17] <cradek> I might use it on my mill's machine if you get it working
[00:05:45] <cradek> although I'm not sure how/if we could make packages that work on both
[01:37:30] <jmkasunich> heh, seems like our completely clueless chinese developer guy is still out there
[01:37:53] <jmkasunich> "I know absolutely nothing about tcl, will someone please explain the several thousand lines of tcl in EMC for me"
[01:38:09] <SWPadnos> soon!
[01:38:29] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: you home again?>
[01:38:36] <SWPadnos> yep, for a week or so
[01:38:58] <SWPadnos> just in time for the snow
[01:39:06] <jmkasunich> how much do you have?
[01:39:10] <jmkasunich> we've got a foot
[01:39:27] <SWPadnos> no real accumulation,m but probably an inch or so so far
[01:39:34] <jmkasunich> bah... pikers
[01:39:37] <SWPadnos> hmmm - that means we'll probably have the foot in a few days
[01:40:15] <jmkasunich> I dunno - we didn't get a blizzard, we've had 3 days of slow steady snow
[01:40:17] <jmkasunich> very strange
[01:40:34] <SWPadnos> apparently there was a fair amount a few days ago, but it melted
[01:41:28] <SWPadnos> I was just looking into travel plans for Fest this year
[01:41:47] <SWPadnos> the Vista Lodge looks attractive, on a price basis
[01:42:03] <jmkasunich> I'll probably stick with the econo lodge again
[01:42:21] <SWPadnos> it's a little further fromthe railroad tracks at least
[01:42:41] <jmkasunich> the vista is?
[01:42:47] <jmkasunich> funny, I've never heard a train
[01:42:50] <SWPadnos> http://www.cnc-workshop.com/vista_lodge.htm
[01:42:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:42:57] <SWPadnos> the econo is further from the tracks
[01:43:04] <jmkasunich> oh
[01:43:17] <SWPadnos> this is the one he mentioned as under new ownership last year
[01:43:31] <SWPadnos> $190 for the week including tax is a very good deal though
[01:43:33] <jmkasunich> 190 for the week sounds hard to beat
[01:43:36] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[01:43:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:43:56] <SWPadnos> but it's further from Perkins, I think ;)
[01:44:02] <jmkasunich> heh
[01:44:28] <SWPadnos> I never even saw the "continental breakfast" at the econo, dunno how it compares
[01:44:34] <jmkasunich> I wonder how "the week" is defined for that deal
[01:44:38] <SWPadnos> (to the VIsta, not to Perkins)
[01:44:43] <SWPadnos> yeah, Iwas wondering the same thing
[01:45:07] <SWPadnos> they have free wireless, apparently, so that's not an issue
[01:45:22] <jmkasunich> the econo breakfast is a tiny table in the lobby, with a couple boxes of powdered sugar mini donuts and grocery store cookies (and some OJ)
[01:45:38] <SWPadnos> ah, so it would be hard to not compete with that
[01:47:06] <jmkasunich> I'll probaby drive saturday the 9th, and drive back Sunday the 17th
[01:47:20] <jmkasunich> so I'll need 8 nights
[01:47:33] <SWPadnos> yep. same here, I think
[01:48:41] <jmkasunich> I bet the $190 deal is "night of monday the 11th thru night of Sat the 16th
[01:49:00] <jmkasunich> 6 days instead of 8
[01:49:09] <SWPadnos> yeah, 6 or 7 probably
[01:49:21] <jmkasunich> still, thats about $32 a night, instead of $46
[01:49:28] <SWPadnos> but still, for 6 nights it's $32/night
[01:49:29] <SWPadnos> :)
[01:49:34] <SWPadnos> including tax
[01:49:50] <jmkasunich> oh...
[01:50:01] <jmkasunich> sounds like its worth a call to see what the extra two days would cost
[01:50:07] <SWPadnos> yep
[01:50:55] <SWPadnos> actually, the workshop is the 11-17, so getting there on the 10th is OK (rather than the 9th)
[01:51:24] <jmkasunich> yeah, but I plan on helping setup
[01:51:36] <jmkasunich> theres a lot to do - tables, power, networking, etc
[01:51:37] <SWPadnos> ok, then the 9th sounds good :)
[01:51:47] <jmkasunich> I think ray will be getting there even earlier - mid week maybe
[01:52:52] <SWPadnos> wow - an actual hotel-like place: http://www.abvigal.com/index.html
[01:53:43] <jmkasunich> hotel as opposed to motel you mean?
[01:53:57] <SWPadnos> yeah - a little taller and looks a bit better kept up
[01:54:30] <jmkasunich> taller does nothing for me
[01:55:12] <SWPadnos> I could have sworn that I read their restaurant is open 24h/day, but I can't find that now
[01:55:15] <jmkasunich> looks like the lowest rate (other than special discounts) is 350 for the 8 days I'd want
[01:55:31] <SWPadnos> yeah - I saw a $280 rate, but it's some club thing
[01:55:37] <SWPadnos> even AAA was $300+
[01:56:01] <jmkasunich> still got your military ID? $280
[01:56:13] <SWPadnos> heh - my hair is a bit longer now ;)
[01:56:26] <jmkasunich> how about the AARP rate?
[01:56:34] <SWPadnos> not enough gray yet
[01:56:54] <jmkasunich> do you have a corporate card for your business?
[01:57:02] <SWPadnos> I have a business card ...
[01:57:52] <jmkasunich> "Corporate Rate - Business Card Required (B1KCOR)"
[01:58:02] <jmkasunich> technically all that requires is a business card....
[01:58:06] <SWPadnos> that's not a problem
[01:58:17] <jmkasunich> I'm not sure if thats what they mean tho
[01:58:33] <jmkasunich> they might mean "book on your business credit card"
[01:58:38] <SWPadnos> could be
[01:59:42] <jmkasunich> its right on the public square,
[01:59:53] <jmkasunich> the tracks run a couple blocks north of there
[01:59:59] <SWPadnos> yep. probably some nicer surroundings than the Econo
[02:00:04] <SWPadnos> true
[02:00:17] <jmkasunich> the surroundings at the econo don't really bother me
[02:00:31] <SWPadnos> yeah, you can't see them much in the dark ;)
[02:00:43] <jmkasunich> the only night that might concern me a bit is the first, because much of my stuff might still be in the truck
[02:01:23] <jmkasunich> you know, I think the main reason I picked the econo lodge the first time was because they were the only ones with a website (then)
[02:01:31] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:01:51] <jmkasunich> econo lodge is gonna be $400 with tax
[02:02:09] <jmkasunich> vista will be $190 + unknown for two more days, maybe another $100
[02:02:49] <SWPadnos> yah, so $320-$350 isn't that much more - the accomodations may be worth it (or not, who knows)
[02:02:52] <jmkasunich> the tall one would be $280 if they go for the "yeah, I got a business card" trick
[02:03:04] <SWPadnos> that was $320
[02:03:09] <SWPadnos> $280 was military
[02:03:19] <jmkasunich> they had a $280 business one too
[02:03:28] <SWPadnos> oh, didn't notice that one
[02:03:33] <jmkasunich> there were three rates listed in each class
[02:03:38] <jmkasunich> one was for a bigger room
[02:03:55] <jmkasunich> the other two seemed to be the same room, dunno the difference
[02:04:06] <jmkasunich> hmm, its only 9pm there...
[02:04:08] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich calls
[02:04:10] <SWPadnos> "reailroad view" or "park view" ;)
[02:04:55] <SWPadnos> the difference is 1 King or 2 double beds
[02:05:09] <SWPadnos> B1K... or B2D...
[02:05:43] <jtr> yeah - found out yeas ago there's a difference between "ocean front" and "ocean view" rooms.
[02:05:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:05:56] <jtr> s/yeas/years/
[02:06:06] <SWPadnos> found that out on my honeymoon
[02:06:23] <jtr> Ouch
[02:06:35] <jmkasunich> oops, when I did the online rate, I only did 7 days
[02:06:47] <SWPadnos> we were given a room (across the street from Waikiki beach) with two double beds, and a view of the plumbing supplies in the parking garage
[02:07:36] <SWPadnos> when we pointed out that we were on our honeymoon, they gave us a nice room with one king bed, and a lanai that looked out over the ocean, the city, and if you craned your neck a little, diamondhead
[02:07:49] <SWPadnos> muuuuuuch nicer :)
[02:08:32] <jmkasunich> they have a weekly rate
[02:08:35] <jtr> ooh, very nice.
[02:08:41] <jmkasunich> looks like 293 for the 8 days
[02:08:50] <SWPadnos> cool
[02:09:20] <SWPadnos> I wonder if we can get a deal if we get most of us together at that place
[02:10:04] <jmkasunich> "most of us" might be a problem
[02:10:14] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[02:10:21] <jmkasunich> they have a few of the "one bed non-smoking" rooms available
[02:10:32] <jmkasunich> more smoking rooms, and more two bed higher price ones
[02:10:48] <SWPadnos> two beds are fine - one to sleep on and one for your junk^Wstuff
[02:11:07] <jmkasunich> I'm sure that costs more tho
[02:11:12] <SWPadnos> smoking rooms are a definite problem though
[02:11:17] <cradek> I'd take 13 beds before a smoking room
[02:11:17] <jmkasunich> and I leave my junk at the shop
[02:11:32] <SWPadnos> Id take no bed before a smoking room, in many cases
[02:11:47] <SWPadnos> have therma-rest, will travel
[02:11:57] <SWPadnos> not that I'd like it much ...
[02:12:18] <jmkasunich> one of my goals is to be not far from the rest of the gang, so its easy to meet for breakfast, etc
[02:12:38] <SWPadnos> that's a good plan
[02:12:40] <jmkasunich> (although if I wind up doing late hours and sleeping in that might become irrelevant anyway)
[02:12:56] <SWPadnos> being at the same hotel didn't seem to help much except for limited carpooling
[02:13:05] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:13:32] <cradek> we'll have N-1 cars again, which is plenty for about anything
[02:13:41] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:13:49] <SWPadnos> yep. I also plan to not have as much stuff, so I'll probably have all 3 seats in the van
[02:14:03] <SWPadnos> 6 people, 7 if a few are skinny wnough
[02:14:06] <SWPadnos> enough
[02:14:14] <cradek> I thought your van was dead
[02:14:18] <SWPadnos> it may be
[02:14:26] <SWPadnos> 6 people makes pushing it easier too ;)
[02:14:28] <cradek> ha
[02:14:38] <jmkasunich> carpooling isn't that much of an issue really - I for one want to be able to work late, so I need to take my wheels from hotel to shop
[02:14:54] <SWPadnos> I still haven't decided whether I should be environmentally friendly or economically friendly
[02:14:59] <jmkasunich> at mealtimes carpooling works, but that doesn't care where we are staying
[02:15:46] <jmkasunich> the tall place has microwave and fridge... that could be handy
[02:15:54] <SWPadnos> yeah, I noticed that
[02:16:02] <cradek> I had those last time, but I didn't use them
[02:16:15] <SWPadnos> so some little projects may be easier in a hotel room - like soldering small boards
[02:16:24] <jmkasunich> oh, I thought you guys might have - because of "non-conventional" diet
[02:16:34] <SWPadnos> though there should be ample table space in the shop
[02:16:51] <cradek> nope we ate almost exclusively at that cafe (you were there)
[02:17:04] <jmkasunich> true
[02:17:53] <jmkasunich> it seems like the vista lodge and the tall place are price competitive, econo lodge is more
[02:18:24] <cradek> which was last year's?
[02:18:26] <SWPadnos> I gather that the railroad tracks are right behind the Vista - the extra couple of blocks may be a very good thing
[02:18:29] <SWPadnos> Econo Inn
[02:19:15] <jmkasunich> cradek: do you remember where that cafe was?
[02:19:39] <cradek> no but maybe I can find it online (that's how I found it before)
[02:19:56] <jmkasunich> It might only be a few blocks from "central park"
[02:20:03] <jmkasunich> ie, walking distance from the tall place
[02:20:29] <SWPadnos> was it this one? http://qscafe.tripod.com/
[02:20:36] <SWPadnos> hmm. I don't think so
[02:20:40] <cradek> http://www.discoverourtown.com/IL/local-173219.html
[02:21:03] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: might have been
[02:21:49] <jmkasunich> 3 blocks east of central park
[02:21:58] <cradek> that photo doesn't look right
[02:22:03] <jmkasunich> its not
[02:22:12] <jmkasunich> the cornucopia is the one we went to
[02:22:16] <SWPadnos> no, that's not the place
[02:22:19] <jmkasunich> the other one looks worth checking out
[02:22:19] <SWPadnos> right
[02:22:24] <cradek> ah
[02:22:24] <cradek> yes it does
[02:22:35] <SWPadnos> though that other one came up with a search for "galesburg vegetarian cafe"
[02:23:06] <SWPadnos> http://www.seminarystreet.com/dining/index.htm
[02:23:10] <SWPadnos> that's the site I found before
[02:23:56] <SWPadnos> I guess being 3 blocks from Seminary Street might be a good thing
[02:24:03] <cradek> if we all go to the same place, maybe we can call and beg for a nicer week price
[02:24:34] <jmkasunich> not if we all want non-smoking and they only have 2 rooms available
[02:24:36] <SWPadnos> that was my thought, but it seems there aren't all that many nonsmoking+cheap rooms available
[02:24:44] <SWPadnos> look, Elvis!
[02:24:49] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos reserves a room
[02:24:56] <jmkasunich> did you and jeff have two rooms, or would you want the two-bed larger room?
[02:25:10] <cradek> we had two
[02:25:25] <jmkasunich> so you two, swp, and me, will probably us them up
[02:25:27] <cradek> don't think I'm up to sharing (and we also often like to keep different hours)
[02:25:55] <cradek> I see about 50 rooms? how can they only have 4 nonsmoking single rooms?
[02:26:08] <jmkasunich> other reservations already made?
[02:26:10] <jmkasunich> I dunno
[02:26:13] <cradek> you're talking about http://www.abvigal.com/index.html right?
[02:26:14] <SWPadnos> I'm not as worried about the price (just finished a week in San Jose at $204/night) - I can take one of the larger rooms
[02:26:18] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:26:39] <jmkasunich> I'm game - I think I'll reserve tonight too
[02:26:41] <cradek> me too then
[02:26:48] <jmkasunich> deal...
[02:26:51] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich calls
[02:26:52] <cradek> remind me what the days are?
[02:27:00] <SWPadnos> June 11-17 are the workshop
[02:27:09] <SWPadnos> days
[02:27:16] <jmkasunich> I'm arriving sat 9 and leaving sun 17, 8 nights
[02:29:02] <jmkasunich> is one of you on the phone with her?
[02:29:15] <SWPadnos> nope - internet for me
[02:29:28] <cradek> what's value club?
[02:29:40] <jmkasunich> can you get the weekely rate online?
[02:29:41] <SWPadnos> I was just wondering about that
[02:29:44] <SWPadnos> dunno
[02:29:52] <cradek> is anyone on the phone?
[02:29:55] <jmkasunich> i like talking to a human
[02:29:56] <jmkasunich> me
[02:30:01] <cradek> ok let us know what you find :-)
[02:30:24] <cradek> you can commit me too if it helps you get any kind of deal
[02:30:37] <SWPadnos> yeah, same here (large or small room, but nonsmoking required)
[02:30:53] <cradek> yes nonsnoking required for me too
[02:31:10] <cradek> I see online that nonsmoking is a non-guaranteed "special request"
[02:31:10] <jmkasunich> she says you should call to get the rate
[02:31:15] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:32:22] <cradek> wonder if there's an extra charge for internet - it doesn't say
[02:32:38] <SWPadnos> usually no extra, but sometimes not all rates are displayed
[02:33:18] <jmkasunich> "Standard guestroom including High Speed Internet Access, FREE local calls, Cable TV, Microwave, and refrigerator. Specify Smoking or Non."
[02:33:28] <jmkasunich> ok, mine is done
[02:33:36] <jmkasunich> 293.74 for the 8 days
[02:33:40] <cradek> wonder if I should reserve one for jepler too
[02:33:48] <SWPadnos> with or without tax?
[02:33:52] <cradek> that's a nice price
[02:33:52] <jmkasunich> (237.30 for the week, plus one day at 49.95+tax
[02:33:53] <jmkasunich> with
[02:33:56] <SWPadnos> cool
[02:34:00] <jmkasunich> the total, and the weekly rate are with tax
[02:34:09] <jmkasunich> the daily rate needs tax added, which she did
[02:34:16] <SWPadnos> ok, that's a good rate
[02:34:30] <SWPadnos> I think I'll be a day out of sync with you, but still 8 nights
[02:34:46] <SWPadnos> no slipstreaming on the way back ;)
[02:34:48] <jmkasunich> give her a call, get 'em while they're hot
[02:34:57] <SWPadnos> cradek - you want to go next?
[02:35:14] <jmkasunich> I did offer more people, she said the weekly rate is the lowest one they have
[02:35:53] <cradek> SWPadnos: sure
[02:36:01] <SWPadnos> ok. let me know when you're done
[02:38:09] <cradek> wtf - my phone isn't working or something
[02:38:29] <jmkasunich> silly, you have to hang up the modem first
[02:38:31] <SWPadnos> "you must dial '1' before placing a long distance call" :)
[02:38:37] <cradek> did you call that 309 343 9161?
[02:38:44] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:38:53] <SWPadnos> +1
[02:39:10] <cradek> 'your service has been temporarily interrupted' says my phone
[02:39:13] <jmkasunich> answered by a real live human, who forwarded me to another real live human
[02:39:24] <jmkasunich> wtf
[02:39:29] <SWPadnos> odd
[02:39:31] <jmkasunich> for all calls, or just that number?
[02:39:37] <cradek> just that one
[02:39:50] <jmkasunich> really bizarre
[02:39:54] <SWPadnos> hmmm, well maybe I'll try ;)
[02:40:01] <cradek> arrgh
[02:40:11] <cradek> wait, I'll try my cel
[02:40:17] <jmkasunich> galesburg just got hit by a comet
[02:40:31] <cradek> yeah I'm assuming it's on my end...
[02:40:38] <jmkasunich> "just that one"
[02:44:59] <jmkasunich> SWP: from the about page: We feature FREE wireless internet to all rooms
[02:45:10] <SWPadnos> I noticed that
[02:45:20] <SWPadnos> I may get a wireles bridge to make it easier on Ubuntu
[02:45:54] <jmkasunich> I found that all I do in the room is sleep, shower, etc
[02:46:00] <SWPadnos> I have a crappy old (buggy) PCMCIA card that often doesn't work, especially when there's WEP (under Windows either)
[02:46:07] <SWPadnos> heh - me too, usually
[02:46:26] <SWPadnos> but it's nicer when you aren't actively driven from the room by critters or smells ...
[02:46:50] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:47:22] <jmkasunich> oh, they have a resturant in-house too
[02:47:29] <jmkasunich> might be handy for breakfasts
[02:47:35] <jmkasunich> http://www.abvigal.com/pbig2.html
[02:47:54] <SWPadnos> yep. and it looks nice, actually
[02:48:19] <jmkasunich> worthless room pic: http://www.abvigal.com/pbig3.html
[02:48:27] <jmkasunich> "yup, its a bed alright"
[02:48:30] <SWPadnos> and a nightstand!
[02:48:37] <jmkasunich> two nightstands!
[02:48:42] <SWPadnos> !!
[02:48:57] <jmkasunich> silence from cradek must mean he got thru
[02:49:05] <cradek> yep
[02:49:17] <SWPadnos> I guess http://www.abvigal.com/pbig1.html is one of the meeting rooms??
[02:49:22] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:49:30] <jmkasunich> maybe "the" meeting room ;-)
[02:49:33] <SWPadnos> sauna - nice
[02:49:34] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:49:51] <SWPadnos> they do say "facilities", not "facility" ...
[02:53:15] <jmkasunich> the cafe: http://image.maps.yahoo.com/overviewmap?OVMAPDATA=RaiQ3.R32XUVC1Q50AamSrPvEGTd9hd.9YCtw6tXQ.S2DwFxGL1HfCahZuniXTvCgDmxIKiaJHTkpo.T.tvLg8ugap89EuLnzyiWwzQdvvXWrlYw.ddAu06Qx0L.SQ--&ORG=y4B8VvMmhn3qAkxDD1A6.bjTHwi.aRzqHQoFJc70kKH4E2Aiz00cMUz39KPRrwZttES8Ytkc55c8AUCauaUnjeqV4iFDS.A1YrwbZUP7yX_5HFQo0h5g6ni6WQgXLUXQqQE-
[02:53:27] <SWPadnos> that is a very long URL
[02:53:41] <jmkasunich> its directions from hotel to cafe
[02:53:45] <jmkasunich> all 4 blocks
[02:53:51] <SWPadnos> it appears to have errors
[02:53:58] <jmkasunich> I think the URL is longer than the walk
[02:53:58] <SWPadnos> ie, Mozilla won't display it
[02:54:01] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:54:07] <SWPadnos> 3 blocks +/-
[02:54:25] <jmkasunich> http://image.maps.yahoo.com/overviewmap?OVMAPDATA=RaiQ3.R32XUVC1Q50AamSrPvEGTd9hd.9YCtw6tXQ.S2DwFxGL1HfCahZuniXTvCgDmxIKiaJHTkpo.T.tvLg8ugap89EuLnzyiWwzQdvvXWrlYw.ddAu06Qx0L.SQ--&ORG=y4B8VvMmhn3qAkxDD1A6.bjTHwi.aRzqHQoFJc70kKH4E2Aiz00cMUz39KPRrwZttES8Ytkc55c8AUCauaUnjeqV4iFDS.A1YrwbZUP7yX_5HFQo0h5g6ni6WQgXLUXQqQE-
[02:54:36] <jmkasunich> yeah, thats the same one (just checking
[02:54:44] <SWPadnos> hmmm - same problem here. lemme try FF
[02:55:00] <jmkasunich> I pasted it into a new tab, it works fine (the second one is copied out of that tab)
[02:55:10] <SWPadnos> nope - not in the Windows version
[02:55:25] <jtr> run ROT13 on the url to get the directions in plain text?
[02:55:40] <jmkasunich> maybe yahoo ties the map images to the people who request them with a cookie
[02:55:46] <jmkasunich> (that is just the map....)
[02:55:55] <jtr> just kidding
[02:55:57] <cradek> SWPadnos: you're up
[02:55:59] <jmkasunich> http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?newaddr=89+South+Seminary+Street&taddr=29+Public+Square%2C&csz=Galesburg%2C+IL+61401&country=us&tcsz=Galesburg%2C+IL+61401&tcountry=us&oerr=-3001
[02:56:08] <jmkasunich> try rot-13 on that one ;-)
[02:56:08] <SWPadnos> ok, thanks
[02:56:14] <jmkasunich> (its the actual directions page)
[02:57:11] <SWPadnos> much better
[03:01:13] <cradek> she said "I was waiting for you to call, hon"
[03:01:14] <cradek> haha
[03:01:17] <SWPadnos> yeah - same for me
[03:01:25] <jmkasunich> heh, I named names
[03:01:26] <SWPadnos> "you gettin' in on the 9'th?" :)
[03:01:34] <SWPadnos> that was before I got my name out ;)
[03:01:51] <cradek> ha
[03:01:58] <SWPadnos> the funny thing is, I said "I have two last names, the first is wille, W-I-L-L-E"
[03:02:09] <SWPadnos> and she repeats back "W-I-L-L-I-E"
[03:02:28] <cradek> maybe you ought to just change it
[03:02:33] <jmkasunich> http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=15&X=3606&Y=22680&W=1&qs=%7cGalesburg%7cIl%7c
[03:02:41] <SWPadnos> heh - I already did once, that's enough for me
[03:02:42] <jmkasunich> I think its the building in the northeast quadrant
[03:02:46] <cradek> or answer to either (I used to answer to my brother's name too at family events)
[03:02:52] <jmkasunich> (the tall one with the shadow)
[03:03:16] <cradek> jmkasunich: looks nice enough
[03:03:32] <jmkasunich> heh, you can judge a hotel from the roof?
[03:03:37] <jmkasunich> thats quite a skill
[03:03:46] <cradek> the area, smartass
[03:04:33] <cradek> hey btw do you have any objection to changing 'length' of the oneshot to a pin? dallur had to make that change in his tree for his project
[03:04:45] <jmkasunich> no, go ahead
[03:04:52] <cradek> err width
[03:04:55] <cradek> whatever
[03:04:59] <jmkasunich> we've talked about changing all params to pins
[03:05:10] <cradek> it doesn't even break configs doe sit
[03:05:19] <jmkasunich> I don't think so
[03:05:32] <jmkasunich> you can't link to params, so there can't be any existing nets that would break
[03:05:43] <cradek> and setp still works
[03:05:45] <jmkasunich> a setp will set an unconnected pin just like it sets a param
[03:05:46] <cradek> (now)
[03:06:14] <jmkasunich> if somebody was using getp in a script or something (obscure) it would break
[03:06:28] <jmkasunich> they'd need to attach a signal to the pin and use gets, sets
[03:06:41] <jmkasunich> (or we would need to revise getp)
[03:08:26] <jmkasunich> nobody is gonna be using getp on that particular param tho, it never changes
[03:09:58] <jmkasunich> if the cornucopia gets old, there is a fancier place nearby that seems at least a little veggie friendly
[03:09:57] <jmkasunich> http://www.seminarystreet.com/landmark/index.htm
[03:10:14] <jmkasunich> quiche, entree salads, etc
[03:10:41] <jmkasunich> http://www.seminarystreet.com/landmark/menupage1_2005.htm
[03:11:04] <SWPadnos> I wanted to try the Landmark last year
[03:11:16] <SWPadnos> but went to Perkins 17000 times instead
[03:11:45] <jmkasunich> well, we are now gonna be 3 blocks from seminary st, and 30 from perkins
[03:11:54] <SWPadnos> much better odds
[03:13:31] <jmkasunich> have any of you guys paid roland yet?
[03:13:42] <cradek> nope
[03:13:42] <jmkasunich> It seems his site and mailing system is fscked
[03:14:01] <SWPadnos> he says it's fixed, but I didn't go through the whole process today
[03:14:23] <SWPadnos> the instructions are now to pay using PayPal, the account name is on the site
[03:14:34] <jmkasunich> grrrr paypal
[03:14:51] <jmkasunich> you don't need an account to pay thru pp, right?
[03:14:56] <SWPadnos> yep, you do
[03:15:05] <cradek> I can pay for you
[03:15:09] <SWPadnos> they need bank/CC info, so an account is needed
[03:15:46] <jmkasunich> I'll call Cardinal tomorrow "sorry, I don't do pp, can I send you a check"
[03:15:58] <jmkasunich> of course, that might get lost on someones desk....
[03:16:40] <SWPadnos> they may take a CC directly, or take a check onsite from people they already know
[03:16:45] <cradek> http://www.cnc-workshop.com/attendees.htm
[03:16:53] <cradek> it says they take checks
[03:16:53] <jmkasunich> I'll see what they say, if no joy, I might take cradek up on that offer
[03:17:17] <jmkasunich> duh
[03:17:39] <jmkasunich> so $110 with a swap table
[03:17:42] <SWPadnos> I must have skipped right over the check paragraph - I'm so used to electronic payment
[03:18:06] <jmkasunich> you gonna have a swap table this year?
[03:18:21] <SWPadnos> I don't know. I certainly don't want to take as much stuff as I had last year
[03:18:41] <SWPadnos> I do have a bunch of nice little servos with 500-line encoders though
[03:18:55] <SWPadnos> ~120W DC servos
[03:18:57] <jmkasunich> if either of you has only a few small items, there will be room on my table
[03:19:11] <SWPadnos> ok. that sounds about right :)
[03:19:13] <jmkasunich> I don't think I'm gonna really load up (but I will be bringing a decent pile)
[03:19:34] <SWPadnos> my pile hasn't increased much in the last year (which is a good thing, overall)
[03:19:46] <jmkasunich> to be honest, mine hasn't either
[03:19:57] <jmkasunich> the quality of the trash at work seems to have declined
[03:20:00] <SWPadnos> I think yours was bigger in the first place ;)
[03:20:50] <jmkasunich> hmm, going on 11:30... I should go to bed. I was up till 4 the last two nights - I got over my mental roadblocks on the VHDL, and have been having fun
[03:20:57] <SWPadnos> cool
[03:21:14] <jmkasunich> GHDK + GtkWave makes a nice and fast simulator setup
[03:21:27] <cradek> I paid up
[03:21:28] <SWPadnos> I got permission from a few of hte instructors to give you guys copies of their presentations
[03:21:38] <jmkasunich> I've got a makefile set up - about 10 seconds from editor save to viewing the simulation results on screen
[03:21:54] <SWPadnos> including the ones on Verilog, VHDL, and a few that you won't want to look at on C++
[03:22:08] <SWPadnos> nice
[03:22:56] <jmkasunich> so far I've been doing simple sims - first getting a one-shot timer to work right, then a single stepgen (uses 3 of the oneshots for steplen, dirhold, and dirsetup)
[03:23:12] <jmkasunich> I now have a stepgen core that does step/dir, up/down, and quadrature
[03:23:19] <SWPadnos> does the RTL viewer work under Linux?
[03:23:27] <jmkasunich> and I think its noticibly smaller than peters
[03:23:36] <jmkasunich> not sure, didn't mess with that
[03:23:37] <SWPadnos> cool
[03:23:44] <SWPadnos> ok. that's what you'll want to look at
[03:24:00] <jmkasunich> I haven't done the "single stepgen in an fpga" usage test yet
[03:24:02] <SWPadnos> it gives you a diagram of the actual synthesized gates
[03:24:25] <SWPadnos> ugly to look at (since the connections are made automatically), but looks very useful
[03:24:28] <jmkasunich> when I did it for the oneshot, I found a simple change that took it from 13FF and 29LUT to 13FF and 13LUT
[03:24:46] <SWPadnos> RTL viewer will show you exactly what logic is being generated
[03:24:53] <jmkasunich> that would be handy
[03:25:04] <SWPadnos> useful for small things, very confusing for medium or larger things
[03:25:11] <jmkasunich> does it understand things like FPGA dedicated carry chains?
[03:25:34] <SWPadnos> it isn't at that level - it's basically the logic level - as if you designed using gates and flipflops
[03:25:39] <jmkasunich> oh
[03:25:50] <SWPadnos> before mapping / place+route
[03:26:04] <SWPadnos> but at least you can see what it thinks you asked for :)
[03:26:25] <jmkasunich> the trick for the oneshot was to re-order two stages of logic, so that the adder's carry output could be used to detect underflow, instead of a "foo = 0" that translates to a huge OR gate
[03:27:01] <SWPadnos> you get a "borrow-out" or a "carry-out" - cool
[03:27:09] <jmkasunich> not explicitly
[03:27:37] <jmkasunich> what I did was use a N+1 bit adder (subtractor really) to subtract 1 from the N bit register value and make the new value
[03:28:06] <jmkasunich> when bit N+1 becomes a 1, the new value will be -1, so the current value is zero, and I don't want to clock
[03:28:29] <jmkasunich> since the FPGA has a dedicated clock enable, I just use bit N+1 to control it
[03:28:42] <jmkasunich> and I get "count down to zero and stop" very cheaply
[03:28:54] <SWPadnos> cool. no race conditions?
[03:29:11] <SWPadnos> I suppose not, since the counter has to count before the clock is stopped
[03:29:25] <jmkasunich> clock enable is synchronous
[03:29:44] <jmkasunich> (the FF is always clocked, there is an internal mux that drives D' with either Q or D based on CE
[03:30:17] <jmkasunich> (the CE mux is independent of the LUT, built into the FF)
[03:30:49] <SWPadnos> ok - no races there then
[03:31:14] <SWPadnos> so 13 LUT + 13 FF = 150 or so stepgens per chip, right? ;)
[03:31:21] <jmkasunich> lol
[03:31:27] <jmkasunich> thats for a single 12 bit oneshot
[03:31:31] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[03:31:32] <jmkasunich> each stepgen uses 3 of those
[03:31:38] <SWPadnos> only 50 stepgens
[03:31:43] <SWPadnos> bummer
[03:31:46] <jmkasunich> but that means 48 LUTs saved per stepgen
[03:31:58] <SWPadnos> well, as long as it's 36 or more, ther ecan still be one per pin pair
[03:32:02] <jmkasunich> the stepgen also has a long accumulator, and a medium long rate register
[03:33:32] <jmkasunich> http://pastebin.ca/430621
[03:33:34] <jmkasunich> oneshot
[03:34:39] <jmkasunich> http://pastebin.ca/430622
[03:34:42] <jmkasunich> stepgen (preliminary)
[03:34:51] <jmkasunich> right now that is the "core" of the stepgen
[03:35:07] <jmkasunich> it expects to be given rate and the timing params as vectors
[03:35:37] <jmkasunich> a complete stepgen needs registers so you can write that stuff from the PCI bus, and read the accum from the bus
[03:35:41] <jmkasunich> that will be wrapped around the core
[03:35:50] <SWPadnos> right
[03:36:08] <jmkasunich> separating the bus interface from the core logic lets me test easier
[03:36:32] <jmkasunich> and lets me instantiate just the core, connecting all the vectors and outputs to the 72 IO pins
[03:36:50] <jmkasunich> for resource usage measurements, or non-PC based testing
[03:37:02] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:37:10] <jmkasunich> (PC just provides power and a place for the board to sit)
[03:37:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm. what's /= again?
[03:37:21] <SWPadnos> is that !=
[03:37:29] <jmkasunich> yeh
[03:37:33] <SWPadnos> ok
[03:37:33] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:38:14] <jmkasunich> something just "clicked" over the last couple days, and suddenly I was getting VHDL much better than before
[03:38:31] <jmkasunich> I'm almost certain its because of the rapid cycle with GHDL
[03:38:35] <SWPadnos> great. I need to get myself a book, and actually sito down and try stuff
[03:39:10] <SWPadnos> I've been blocking myself because I have the non-free versions of software, but I'm not sure yet how I should install them
[03:39:20] <SWPadnos> XP64, Linux, or Linux/VMWare
[03:39:24] <jmkasunich> these files (plus the "test bed" vhdl, will be going into CVS soon
[03:39:49] <jmkasunich> I just want to let the structure settle a bit, so I don't wind up wanting to rename things or move them
[03:40:01] <SWPadnos> ok
[03:40:12] <SWPadnos> you have a 100 MHz scope, right?
[03:40:19] <jmkasunich> regardless of what non-free stuff you have, I strongly recommend getting GHDL and GtkWave
[03:40:27] <SWPadnos> ko, I'll look at those
[03:40:30] <SWPadnos> ok
[03:40:36] <jmkasunich> they're free, and the makefile (already committed) works with them
[03:40:51] <SWPadnos> ok, can they place+route, or do they need the vendor tools for that?
[03:40:51] <jmkasunich> make oneshot_sim.wave
[03:40:58] <jmkasunich> and 10s later you are looking at the waveforms
[03:41:13] <jmkasunich> oneshot_sim.vhd is the testbed
[03:41:16] <SWPadnos> I wonder if that's multithreaded? ;)
[03:41:31] <jmkasunich> make oneshot_syn.usage
[03:41:45] <jmkasunich> 1 min later you are looking at the FF and LUT usage
[03:42:04] <jmkasunich> oneshot_syn.vhd instantiate one oneshot and connects it to the I/O pins
[03:42:15] <jmkasunich> oneshot.vhd is the actual package
[03:42:35] <jmkasunich> the makefile handles all dependencies too, once you start using oneshot in stepgen, and stepgen in foo, and foo in bar
[03:42:40] <SWPadnos> great!
[03:43:12] <jmkasunich> obviously the _syn stuff uses the xilinx tools
[03:43:26] <SWPadnos> ok - that's what I figured
[03:43:40] <SWPadnos> the only company that doesn't do that is Synplicity (and Mentor, I guess)
[03:43:54] <jmkasunich> they have their own synthesis tools?
[03:44:11] <SWPadnos> synthesis is easy, place/route and resource mapping aren't
[03:44:21] <SWPadnos> Altium has its own synthesis tool
[03:44:24] <SWPadnos> (for example)
[03:44:46] <jmkasunich> I misuse the term synthesis to mean "go from vhdl to bitfile" (the whole process)
[03:44:48] <SWPadnos> I suppose I shouldn't sound so knowledgeable though, I barely understand what the various stepsa re
[03:45:02] <SWPadnos> I tend to do the same thing
[03:45:23] <SWPadnos> but yes, Synplicity and Mentor do have their own tools, I believe
[03:45:39] <SWPadnos> in fact, I think some vendors use Synplicity as their own tools
[03:46:22] <jmkasunich> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa_5i2x/5i20_vhdl/Makefile?annotate=1.4
[03:46:35] <jmkasunich> take a quick look at that...
[03:46:47] <jmkasunich> line 17 - vhdl to object file (using GHDL)
[03:47:04] <jmkasunich> line 23 - multiple object files to simulator binary (GHDL)
[03:47:17] <jmkasunich> 31 - runs the binary, saves results in .ghw file
[03:47:24] <jmkasunich> 37 invokes viewer
[03:47:53] <jmkasunich> each previous step is a prerequisite of the others, so when you ask for wave, it does whatever is needed to get up to date
[03:48:07] <SWPadnos> cool
[03:48:10] <jmkasunich> if the sim results are newer than all the vhdl, it just loads them and displays
[03:48:22] <jmkasunich> synthesis starts at 41
[03:48:53] <jmkasunich> .t is a tag file, used to manage dependencies (since there are no .o files, its tricky to keep track of what is and isn't built)
[03:49:12] <jmkasunich> 51 - generates the prj file that tells XST what files are used in the design
[03:49:27] <jmkasunich> 58 - the scr file that tells XST what to do
[03:49:46] <jmkasunich> 70 - invokes NGC with the src and prj files - first stage of synthesis
[03:49:53] <SWPadnos> interesting. I think the file list isn't needed unless some of the files aren't in the current directory
[03:49:56] <jmkasunich> (the part the people actually call synth)
[03:50:01] <SWPadnos> right
[03:50:19] <jmkasunich> I think it is needed
[03:50:32] <SWPadnos> apparently, synthesis takes high level code/diagrams and makes low level RTL ("Register Transfer Logic") code out of it
[03:50:43] <jmkasunich> 74 takes the synth report and snips out the part that lists LUTs and FFs and such
[03:50:59] <jmkasunich> 79 is a pre-mapping step
[03:51:05] <jmkasunich> 84 is mapping
[03:51:21] <jmkasunich> 89 is place, 93 is route, 98 is bitfile
[03:51:38] <jmkasunich> again, previous steps are prerequisites for later steps
[03:51:42] <SWPadnos> 103 is gollum
[03:52:08] <SWPadnos> should be .PRECIOUSSSS
[03:52:10] <jmkasunich> so if you have placed but not routed, then you can say make foo-rt.ncd and it will pick up where it left off
[03:52:14] <jmkasunich> lol
[03:52:17] <SWPadnos> cool
[03:53:02] <jmkasunich> 105 and on is a maze of twisty little grep passages, all a alike (and possibly occupied by gollum, or maybe a grue)
[03:53:24] <SWPadnos> hmmm. the FPGA loader can be used on non-RT systems
[03:53:30] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:53:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:53:49] <jmkasunich> you can do that "the PC is just a powersupply" type of testing with any PC
[03:54:15] <SWPadnos> it should be possible to make an exerciser program that runs in userspace as well (setuid maybe)
[03:54:16] <jmkasunich> plug a 72 pin FPGA into your own board, and use it as a development system
[03:54:23] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:54:40] <jmkasunich> as long as the tests you are doing don't require specific timing
[03:54:53] <SWPadnos> sure - testing waveform generation and the like
[03:55:22] <jmkasunich> I did sims where I made a point of changing the stepgen rate from positive to negative exactly one clock before, on, and one clock after, a step pulse, to make sure the hold and setup logic worked
[03:55:20] <SWPadnos> that would be useful for me in that I wouldn't need to make a 64-bit SMP RTAI kernel before messing with it :)
[03:55:25] <jmkasunich> can't test that any other way
[03:55:57] <SWPadnos> hmmm. one clock before, on , and after each phase change would be good too
[03:56:09] <SWPadnos> (phase change = dirhold expiry, dirsetup expiry ...)
[03:56:21] <SWPadnos> basically any state transition
[03:57:02] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:57:17] <SWPadnos> uh=oh - midnight coming up
[03:57:29] <SWPadnos> it's pumpkin time
[03:57:38] <jmkasunich> I think I'm gonna use some asserts in the testbed so it can test actual against expected results
[03:57:59] <SWPadnos> testbed PC software?
[03:58:03] <jmkasunich> testbed vhdl
[03:58:08] <SWPadnos> ah
[03:58:16] <jmkasunich> stepgen_sim.vhd
[03:58:27] <jmkasunich> right now, it generates a waveform plot
[03:58:32] <SWPadnos> that's one thing to look out for - VHDL and Verilog both have a lot of language features that can't be synthesized
[03:58:43] <jmkasunich> right
[03:58:48] <SWPadnos> you can simulate very nicely, and then can't make the hardware
[03:58:56] <jmkasunich> oneshot.vhd uses only synthesisable stuff
[03:59:06] <SWPadnos> many give you compile-time errors, others don't
[03:59:16] <jmkasunich> oneshot_sim.vhd is a wrapper for sim, and uses "wait 20 nS", etc to generate stimuli
[03:59:35] <SWPadnos> cool. what's the base clock for the stepgens?
[03:59:41] <jmkasunich> oneshot_syn.vhd is a wrapper for usage testing, etc, synthesizable stuff
[03:59:45] <jmkasunich> 33MHz
[03:59:47] <SWPadnos> PCI clock?
[03:59:50] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:00:17] <SWPadnos> hmmm. didn't petev mention that the PCI clock can vary by some rather disturbingly large margin?
[04:00:21] <SWPadnos> err, peteW
[04:00:25] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:00:32] <jmkasunich> dunno what to do about that
[04:00:45] <SWPadnos> not that any other clock derived from that would be any better
[04:00:50] <jmkasunich> large margin is a couple percent I think
[04:01:11] <SWPadnos> yeah, it may be less even
[04:01:18] <SWPadnos> 3% would be 32 - 34 MHz
[04:01:22] <SWPadnos> for the most part
[04:01:25] <jmkasunich> he has a 50MHz crystal on the board, but using anything other than the PCI clock means that "rate" can change asynchronous to the stepgen clock - I'd need to pipeline it or something, lots more ffs
[04:02:09] <SWPadnos> yeah, you'd need a second register (FF set) with PCI clocking
[04:02:24] <jmkasunich> same for reading back the position
[04:02:35] <jmkasunich> thats a LOT of FFs
[04:02:48] <SWPadnos> ayes
[04:02:52] <SWPadnos> -a
[04:03:01] <jmkasunich> 32 for readback and 24 for rate out, I think (I'm using generics, so its scalable)
[04:03:27] <jmkasunich> hmm
[04:03:39] <jmkasunich> another approach might be to have a 33<->50 bus translator
[04:03:39] <SWPadnos> actually, you should be able to AND the two clocks or something
[04:03:43] <jmkasunich> just two sets of FFs
[04:03:58] <jmkasunich> for the whole chip
[04:04:11] <jmkasunich> anding clocks is a good way to get 1nS pulses sometimes
[04:04:14] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[04:04:34] <SWPadnos> doesn't the PLX chip do some of this for us?
[04:04:50] <jmkasunich> it is an interface between the PCI bus and a local bus
[04:04:55] <jmkasunich> the local bus goes to the FPGA
[04:05:01] <jmkasunich> but the local bus uses the PCI clock
[04:05:04] <SWPadnos> I thought it had support for separate local bus and PCI clocks
[04:05:09] <jmkasunich> the chip might
[04:05:12] <jmkasunich> the board, not sure
[04:05:18] <jmkasunich> the config loaded into the chip, no
[04:05:32] <SWPadnos> right - something to check later :)
[04:07:10] <jmkasunich> after sleep
[04:07:12] <SWPadnos> yep
[04:07:15] <SWPadnos> night
[04:07:22] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[15:09:55] <tomp> (noticed a hyphen/underscore issue) hal component has name charge_pump but pin prefix is charge-pump
[15:10:42] <tomp> charge_pump is a singleton, i suppose thats ok, so charge-pump.N wont happen
[15:27:44] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[15:56:57] <alex_joni> tomp: that's correct.. all HAL pins should have hyphen in the names
[15:57:24] <alex_joni> .c naming however uses underscore (hyphen is not allowed in datanames)
[15:58:45] <tomp> alex_jone: ok, thanks, underscore become hyphens from now on in gEDA files
[15:58:58] <tomp> alex_joni
[15:59:17] <alex_joni> tomp: my IRC client didn't see any difference between the two :P
[15:59:33] <alex_joni> but I bet yours has tab completion too.. it might save you some typing
[15:59:44] <alex_joni> t<tab> = tomp
[16:00:22] <tomp> alex_joni: i had no idea tab worked here, thanks, it even adds the colon :)
[16:00:46] <alex_joni> tomp: it does :)
[16:49:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni pings cradek
[16:50:22] <cradek> hi
[16:50:30] <alex_joni> got a bitop biting here
[16:50:38] <cradek> a wha?
[16:51:02] <alex_joni> bitopt or whatever that's called
[16:51:35] <cradek> I have no clue what you're talking about
[16:51:43] <alex_joni> hang on
[16:52:11] <alex_joni> Linking halstreamer
[16:52:11] <alex_joni> ../lib/libemchal.so.0: undefined reference to `test_bit'
[16:52:11] <alex_joni> ../lib/libemchal.so.0: undefined reference to `set_bit'
[16:52:11] <alex_joni> ../lib/libemchal.so.0: undefined reference to `clear_bit'
[16:52:44] <alex_joni> further up..
[16:52:48] <alex_joni> Compiling rtapi/rtai_ulapi.c
[16:52:48] <alex_joni> rtapi/rtai_ulapi.c: In function ‘rtapi_exit’:
[16:52:48] <alex_joni> rtapi/rtai_ulapi.c:202: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘test_bit’
[16:56:23] <cradek> i386?
[16:56:33] <alex_joni> yes
[16:56:46] <cradek> is this new?
[16:56:48] <alex_joni> i686
[16:56:50] <cradek> * cradek fishes for a full bug report
[16:57:07] <cradek> ubuntu?
[16:57:08] <alex_joni> I just revived an older VMware machine
[16:57:12] <alex_joni> 2.6.15-magma
[16:57:20] <alex_joni> juve@juve-desktop:~/emc2$ uname -a
[16:57:20] <alex_joni> Linux juve-desktop 2.6.15-magma #1 Fri Jun 9 20:51:19 EEST 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
[16:57:40] <cradek> trunk?
[16:57:54] <cradek> did you try make clean? I'm pretty sure trunk works
[16:58:13] <alex_joni> I did make clean
[16:58:24] <alex_joni> trying again
[16:58:54] <cradek> be sure to run configure
[16:58:58] <alex_joni> running it now
[16:58:59] <cradek> do you get ASM_BITOPS_H_USABLE?
[16:59:21] <alex_joni> I saw it in config.status
[16:59:32] <alex_joni> but not in config.h.. is it supposed to be there?
[17:00:19] <cradek> I'm not sure
[17:00:47] <alex_joni> oh, wtf
[17:00:51] <alex_joni> it worked now
[17:01:01] <cradek> hmmmm
[17:01:04] <alex_joni> although I'm 100% positiv I did make clean before
[17:01:09] <cradek> did you run configure?
[17:01:28] <alex_joni> a couple times
[17:01:39] <alex_joni> nm
[17:04:46] <alex_joni> Unexpected realtime delay: check dmesg for details.
[17:04:53] <alex_joni> (no sh*t) :D
[17:04:58] <cradek> heh
[17:05:59] <alex_joni> 1885236, 2032944, 1978369, 3379068, 569040 and now 2007216
[17:14:43] <alex_joni> Hallöchen Jeff
[17:15:05] <jepler> hi alex
[17:15:11] <jepler> what's new with you or emc?
[17:15:24] <alex_joni> not much..
[17:15:32] <alex_joni> it's been pretty quiet
[17:16:32] <jepler> I guess so
[17:16:35] <jepler> not much on the mailing lists
[17:18:50] <cradek> nobody's commented an any of my AXIS changes yet so they must be fine
[17:19:43] <jepler> hah
[17:19:46] <jepler> just you wait
[17:20:03] <alex_joni> lol
[17:20:31] <cradek> they're about 80% right I'm sure
[17:22:14] <SWPadnos__> SWPadnos__ is now known as SWPadnos
[17:25:59] <jepler> that's the way with all of my changes
[17:26:41] <jepler> cradek: I had always kinda thought that the tool table editor deserved a dedicated application or at least window
[17:26:46] <jepler> not a general-purpose text editor
[17:26:53] <jepler> but I don't want to make that tool table editor program :-P
[17:27:00] <cradek> yep I agree
[17:27:28] <cradek> we should also revive the nml messages that edit tool entries, and make emc write it
[17:27:50] <cradek> (if we're really going to do it right)
[17:28:13] <alex_joni> cradek: agreed
[17:28:36] <cradek> bbl
[17:30:56] <jepler> dinnertime here .. be back in a few days
[17:31:01] <alex_joni> see you