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[00:57:09] <cradek> assuming I got this right, who thinks it's a good idea? the point is to make it easy for folks to install the build deps for cvs, which can be different from the deps for the distributed package. In this case the deps required for docs are left out (this was my primary goal):
http://pastebin.ca/346039
[01:06:10] <jmkasunich> so what does it mean?
[01:06:15] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich doesn't speak deb
[01:06:57] <jmkasunich> oh, its a package called emc2-cvs-build-dep
[01:07:02] <cradek> it means to get build deps for whatever our cvs requires today, a user can use apt-get build-dep emc2-cvs-build-dep
[01:07:29] <cradek> to rebuild the entire emc2 package right now, you need packages from universe AND multiverse - and they're huge
[01:07:44] <jmkasunich> so which repo are we gonna stick that in (they're breeding like rabbits)
[01:07:46] <cradek> I think people really don't need/want all that to build the cvs
[01:07:58] <cradek> all of the 2.1
[01:08:35] <jmkasunich> the huge external dependencies are for docs, not needed for code?
[01:08:41] <cradek> yes
[01:08:48] <cradek> lyx-qt, latex2html, tex, .....
[01:09:25] <cradek> they are a huge problem on dialup
[01:09:46] <jmkasunich> when I read back each night, I see things that I can't jump in and discuss, cause they're hours old
[01:10:09] <cradek> just bring 'em up again!
[01:10:14] <jmkasunich> but on thing I think I recall, is at least one or two people having build issues because they didn't have latex2hmlt
[01:10:38] <cradek> yeah
[01:11:11] <jmkasunich> seems to me, if latex2html is missing, we should warn that we won't build docs, and then succeed in building everything else
[01:11:22] <jmkasunich> any other behavior is a bug
[01:11:26] <cradek> I agree
[01:11:39] <cradek> that's an aside though
[01:11:55] <cradek> the build-deps for emc2 MUST allow you to rebuild the entire emc2 package as distributed
[01:12:11] <cradek> so that includes latex2html, no two ways about it
[01:12:15] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:12:20] <cradek> using that for cvs is the "bug"
[01:12:42] <cradek> because someone building cvs doesn't care about building the html docs
[01:12:44] <jmkasunich> then the purpose of cvs-build-dep is _not_ just to cover anything that we happen to add for 2.2 and isn't in the 2.1 build deps
[01:12:56] <cradek> that's a happy side-effect
[01:13:15] <jmkasunich> ok, I was mistaking the side effect for the goal, and getting confused
[01:13:47] <jmkasunich> I have another question about this approach tho
[01:13:48] <cradek> the deps for CVS build change over time, so we can keep up if we separate that out
[01:14:32] <jmkasunich> the approach assumes that the user has our repository set up (and is on a system that we have a repo for)
[01:14:39] <cradek> yes
[01:14:41] <jmkasunich> cvs by its nature is _not_ system specific
[01:14:57] <cradek> it's a convenience only for the ubuntu users
[01:15:01] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:15:11] <cradek> on another system, the packages could be named anything
[01:15:38] <jmkasunich> IOW, we've got folks who aren't deveolper-y enough to solve all the dependency issues themselves, but who want to use CVS anyway
[01:15:48] <jmkasunich> and this saves us from handholding them thru it
[01:15:51] <cradek> yes.
[01:16:08] <cradek> well, I'm not saying it's for morons
[01:16:21] <cradek> if someone installs the live cd, they can type one thing to get it ready to build cvs. that's nice.
[01:16:40] <jmkasunich> yeah
[01:16:57] <jmkasunich> if they install dapper and then run the install script, ditto
[01:17:07] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is _not_ a fan of the live CD
[01:17:09] <cradek> yes
[01:17:26] <cradek> I know you're not
[01:17:37] <cradek> but that's also an aside, right? :-)
[01:17:40] <jmkasunich> I was just making sure you knew that ;-)
[01:17:42] <jmkasunich> jk
[01:18:46] <jmkasunich> at least part of the problem with owhite earlier was that he didn't have the 2.1 repo, IIRC
[01:19:42] <jmkasunich> IIRC, there were several ways in which he pretty much refused to do things the easy way, even though that what jepler was trying to get him to do
[01:20:05] <cradek> hmm
[01:20:12] <cradek> well that sounds irritating
[01:20:15] <jmkasunich> maybe I should read back again
[01:20:21] <jmkasunich> I might be exagerating
[01:20:26] <cradek> I didn't see it
[01:20:36] <jmkasunich> I might be able to spell too, but not tonight
[01:21:21] <jepler> it was a test of my good nature
[01:21:23] <jepler> hi guys
[01:21:28] <cradek> hi
[01:22:27] <jmkasunich> I guess you passed, owhite seemed happy when all was done
[01:23:02] <jmkasunich> Cannot install all available updates
[01:23:02] <jmkasunich> Some updates require the removal of further software. Use the function "Mark All Upgrades" of the package manager "Synaptic" or run "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" in a terminal to update your system completely.
[01:23:09] <jmkasunich> linux-image-386
[01:23:09] <jmkasunich> linux-restricted-modules-386
[01:23:21] <cradek> jmkasunich: just ignore it
[01:23:27] <jmkasunich> I guess thats because the ubuntu folks issued a new kernel, and it doesn't want to play with ours
[01:23:47] <cradek> no it's them, not us
[01:23:52] <jepler> there has *got* to be a program that will read debian/control and install the named packages
[01:24:23] <jmkasunich> cradek: I figured I'd ignore it, but it sucks, because it breaks the update manager
[01:24:33] <jmkasunich> the update icon is never going to go away now
[01:24:48] <cradek> I think you can proceed and it'll be fine
[01:25:02] <cradek> those two metapackages are "held back"
[01:25:25] <cradek> hmm, my package doesn't work
[01:25:28] <jmkasunich> well, its downloading 18 packages
[01:25:36] <cradek> E: Build-dependencies for emc2-cvs-build-dep could not be satisfied.
[01:25:50] <jmkasunich> got multiverse turned on?
[01:25:57] <cradek> pardon me apt, but that is NOT a good error message
[01:26:11] <cradek> no, nothing in multiverse is required now
[01:26:59] <jmkasunich> oh, thats right, you don't include latex2html in your list
[01:28:03] <jepler> cradek: is that the full error ??
[01:28:12] <cradek> YES
[01:28:16] <cradek> * cradek grumbles
[01:28:22] <jepler> let's all join in a round of: offs
[01:28:31] <jmkasunich> OFFS!
[01:28:51] <jepler> cradek: I do think what you're doing sounds like a good idea
[01:28:58] <jepler> did I say that yet?
[01:29:03] <jmkasunich> I think every ubuntu user in the world is downloading those upgrades
[01:29:03] <cradek> no
[01:29:12] <jmkasunich> 11kB/sec and dropping
[01:30:31] <jepler> i must have gotten a different server -- 160kB/s steasy
[01:30:34] <jepler> steady
[01:32:29] <jepler> anybody have reservations about me checking in a patch on the branch to get rid of the need for latex2html to build the deb?
[01:32:40] <jepler> (and removing it from build-depends, natch)
[01:32:59] <cradek> we distribute those in the deb, right?
[01:33:22] <cradek> ls
[01:33:24] <cradek> oops
[01:33:24] <jepler> we don't have HTML versions of the lyx docs in the deb
[01:33:32] <cradek> ah
[01:33:36] <jmkasunich> what is the patch?
[01:33:38] <jepler> it's just a waste of time to build them
[01:33:44] <jmkasunich> oh
[01:33:50] <jepler> jmkasunich: separate building pdf documentation from building html documentation, so that you can skip html
[01:34:10] <jmkasunich> so we'd just build the html for the website...
[01:34:21] <cradek> ok with me I guess, if you're absolutely sure it won't break the packaging
[01:34:22] <jepler> in HEAD I'll let you choose any of --enable-build-documentation=no,yes,pdf,html but that's a bit more involved
[01:34:59] <jepler> I have tested that it still builds from a fresh source tree with latex2html removed
[01:35:16] <jmkasunich> sounds good to me
[01:38:32] <jepler> fwiw I get a "held back" message on my x86-64 machine which has never had our kernel or emc2 packages installed
[01:39:05] <jmkasunich> ok, there's just funnyness going on at ubuntu then
[01:39:21] <jmkasunich> 5K/sec...
[01:39:29] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is tempted to cancel and try again
[01:39:41] <cradek> cancel doesn't hurt anything
[01:45:55] <cradek> C-r in vmware should NOT reset without a confirmation
[01:46:12] <jmkasunich> ouch
[01:46:12] <cradek> I keep putting the mouse over the shell (not clicking so it grabs) and hitting C-r
[01:47:16] <cradek> yay I fixed it
[01:47:30] <cradek> build-dep emc2-cvs-build-dep is only 21MB now
[01:48:00] <jmkasunich> "only"
[01:48:04] <jmkasunich> my how things change
[01:48:22] <cradek> that's the compiler and everything
[01:48:27] <jmkasunich> whats the starting point for that? a fresh install of the livecd?
[01:48:29] <cradek> yes
[01:48:44] <jmkasunich> thats not so bad I guess
[01:48:47] <cradek> Fetched 21.9MB in 29s (733kB/s)
[01:48:49] <jmkasunich> sad that ubuntu doesn't include dev tools
[01:48:57] <cradek> ^^ speaking of "how things change"
[01:49:00] <jmkasunich> wow
[01:49:16] <jmkasunich> how'd you do that?
[01:49:27] <jmkasunich> fetching from the host system or something?
[01:49:29] <cradek> plain residential cable
[01:49:41] <jmkasunich> zoom
[01:49:50] <cradek> in the middle of nowhere, probably the only one on the wire
[01:49:59] <cradek> yeah it sure kicks butt
[01:50:27] <jmkasunich> I restarted the update (twice) and now I'm getting 97kB/s
[01:50:32] <cradek> hmm
[01:50:46] <jmkasunich> hmm.... was getting - it just switched to "download rate: unknown"
[01:51:03] <cradek> wonder if I should make cvs a build dep
[01:51:34] <jmkasunich> in the cvs build dep package? of course
[01:52:22] <jmkasunich> woohoo, back to 8kB/sec
[01:52:33] <jmkasunich> I think the wire musta froze
[01:54:12] <jmkasunich> definitely not my wire- its gotta be the repo
[02:00:30] <cradek> argh, linux-headers-2.6.15-magma isn't a build-dep
[02:01:37] <cradek> ok, it is in non-sim
[02:01:40] <cradek> argh
[02:01:47] <cradek> it's never easy is it
[02:02:17] <jmkasunich> nefs
[02:04:07] <cradek> Fetched 6964kB in 6s (1057kB/s)
[02:04:10] <cradek> wtf
[02:04:24] <cradek> dammit I hit C-r again
[02:05:00] <jmkasunich> thats karma - stop boasting about your line speed and it won't happen ;-)
[02:05:18] <cradek> I wonder if something's changed - it's never been this fast before
[02:05:30] <jmkasunich> they replaced your cable with ethernet
[02:05:32] <cradek> it's usually 550-600
[02:23:02] <cradek> ok I think I have it right - doing another new livecd installation to be sure
[02:26:26] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
[02:41:18] <cradek> ok it works
[02:43:54] <jmkasunich> the new package?
[02:46:50] <cradek> yes
[02:47:04] <cradek> on a fresh livecd install, build-dep, cvs, configure, make
[02:47:26] <jmkasunich> so it gets the deps for making the RT version
[02:47:43] <jepler> you mean getting the cvs-build-dep package?
[02:47:43] <jmkasunich> would it also work on a stock ubuntu install to make sim?
[02:48:08] <cradek> jepler: yes
[02:48:22] <cradek> jmkasunich: it's possible, but I haven't done that, since it has different requirements
[02:50:04] <jmkasunich> I think there is a threads package thats only needed for sim
[02:50:07] <jmkasunich> dunno about others
[02:50:50] <cradek> yes pth, and no -magma kernel headers, are the differences
[02:51:15] <jmkasunich> if you added pth to the package, that would prepare you for either kind of build
[02:51:50] <jmkasunich> I think - or is loading the magma headers on a non-magma system gonna cause grief even?
[02:51:51] <cradek> you don't want to get -magma headers if you aren't running -magma
[02:52:00] <cradek> it might load the whole kernel, I'm not sure
[02:52:16] <jepler> looks like <200kb to get libpth2 and libpth-dev, <400k installed
[02:52:20] <jmkasunich> ok, so that package is really only suitable for folkw sith RT
[02:52:28] <cradek> yes
[02:52:39] <cradek> jepler: they're in universe unfortunately
[02:52:43] <jmkasunich> s,w = w,s
[02:53:34] <cradek> I could copy them into our repo because they're gpl, but I don't really want the complexity
[02:54:04] <cradek> think I'll leave it like this for tonight
[02:54:05] <jepler> I guess I chose the wrong threading library
[02:54:17] <jmkasunich> we could simply say "people using sim aren't normal users, let them read a wiki page (or whatever) to get what they need"
[02:57:32] <cradek> hey scara has a table now
[02:58:11] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:58:20] <jmkasunich> it got the table when it got backplot
[02:58:53] <jmkasunich> the table tilts too (only by messing with hal at the moment
[02:59:02] <jmkasunich> although you could probably hook A to it
[02:59:04] <cradek> neat
[03:07:55] <jepler> I wonder -- if I changed the number of that buffer in the 2.2 nml file would it make the symptom go away?
[03:13:43] <cradek> yuck, now I guess there are doc changes to be made
[07:52:04] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[15:11:12] <alex_joni> jmkasunich_: the "names" in scara you didn't like seem to be quite "standard"
[15:11:49] <alex_joni> from what I learned lately it seems that robots and other actuators with joints usually are described using D-H standard
[15:12:12] <alex_joni> D-H stands for Denavit-Hartenberg, and is a common way of modeling joitns & kinematics
[15:12:21] <alex_joni> some quick intro:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_control
[16:25:57] <SWPadnos> that was a nice way of putting it :)
[16:26:13] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: you mean me?
[16:26:17] <SWPadnos> yep
[16:26:25] <SWPadnos> I don't speak that language either
[16:26:27] <alex_joni> :)
[16:26:36] <alex_joni> it's that rafa character again
[16:26:41] <SWPadnos> yep
[16:27:02] <SWPadnos> I assume that anyone with an IP starting with 200.180 is him
[16:27:03] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is happy that he's channelling his energy towards another project
[16:35:46] <jepler> it's him again
[16:36:03] <alex_joni> feel free to jump into the conversation :)
[16:36:12] <cradek> haha he has a new name every day
[16:36:18] <jepler> I know it's him everytime someone starts talking to an invisible person
[16:36:24] <jepler> thank heavens he's on static IP
[16:36:25] <alex_joni> yeah..
[16:38:16] <alex_joni> is it that hard to read 2 webpages?
[16:40:31] <alex_joni> hi ray
[16:40:56] <rayh> Hi Alex.
[16:41:17] <rayh> Trying to start up a new LAN box.
[16:41:28] <SWPadnos> hi Ray
[16:41:37] <rayh> Hi Steven
[17:19:59] <a-l-p-h-a> it's not steven, it's No Spawn.
[17:20:10] <a-l-p-h-a> hate waiting for emails.
[17:20:57] <SWPadnos> e-mail AT location
[17:21:19] <a-l-p-h-a> ?
[17:21:22] <a-l-p-h-a> you lost me...
[17:21:33] <SWPadnos> nevermind - you speak english
[17:21:52] <a-l-p-h-a> "lost in translation" - hated that movie... never understood it.
[17:22:02] <SWPadnos> I liked it quite a bit
[17:22:12] <SWPadnos> but I was referring to a recent support case in #emc ...
[17:22:37] <a-l-p-h-a> moving this convo to #emc... as it's not devel talk... and I only want to spam emc, not devel.
[17:22:50] <SWPadnos> have fune
[17:22:53] <SWPadnos> fun, too
[21:00:08] <alex_joni> jepler: hi.. have you been watching translation updates for AXIS ?
[21:03:42] <skunkworks> bought our first vista test machines today. Yeck
[21:06:03] <alex_joni> yuck
[21:06:12] <alex_joni> wth would you do that?
[21:10:24] <skunkworks> I don't really know. I feel dirty.
[21:14:48] <jepler> alex_joni: I saw that there have been some
[21:15:29] <alex_joni> jepler: the last one seems a bit strange (from fast skimming over it)
[21:15:45] <alex_joni> I don't see the need for UTF for german, but maybe I'm wrong
[21:15:58] <jepler> ubuntu uses UTF-8 encoding for all languages
[21:16:01] <alex_joni> there are other things like this:
[21:16:02] <alex_joni> -"Project-Id-Version: AXIS 1.2\n"
[21:16:02] <alex_joni> +"Project-Id-Version: de_axis\n"
[21:16:27] <alex_joni> -"Language-Team: German <emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net>\n"
[21:16:31] <alex_joni> +"Language-Team: <de@li.org>\n"
[21:17:49] <jepler> I am not sure what the right value is for either of those, and axis doesn't actually use those strings
[21:18:15] <alex_joni> yeah, probably not important
[21:18:26] <jepler> AXIS 1.2 is not a good value anymore
[21:43:27] <alex_joni> flo-h: hi
[21:43:38] <alex_joni> sorry, didn't know you were around..
[21:45:37] <flo-h> hi alex
[21:56:17] <a-l-p-h-a> what are python gurus here?
[21:59:02] <alex_joni> a-l-p-h-a:
http://www.turtlecare.net/taming.htm
[22:00:02] <a-l-p-h-a> alex_joni, you know what I meant.
[22:00:10] <a-l-p-h-a> Smartass. :P
[22:00:22] <a-l-p-h-a> it's jepler, and cradek right?
[22:00:30] <a-l-p-h-a> jmkasunich's getting started...
[22:00:37] <a-l-p-h-a> Django, is something I'm looking at.
[22:10:15] <alex_joni> good night all